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Massachusetts

Started by hotdogPi, October 12, 2013, 04:50:12 PM

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Alps

Quote from: dkblake on September 28, 2020, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: pderocco on September 23, 2020, 05:43:30 PM
I still think they should do a third bridge in the middle. I'll bet a majority of Cape traffic comes from MA-25 and I-195, since it "drains" such a large area, and most of it goes down US-6, to the bulk of the Cape.

Nah- plenty of US 6 <-> Boston traffic- the US 6 control city is Boston, after all. I grew up on Cape and knew a few people who made that commute. I know the "third bridge" comes up, but the two bridges as is are a whole 4 miles apart, and any bridge in the middle would connect, what, a fishing parking lot to another fishing parking lot? Just add another lane both ways on both bridges and make the lanes wide enough to accommodate cars built after 1940 and you're good.
Concur. Each bridge should be 5 lanes with a reversible center lane, or 6 lanes without. Depends what they feel like operating on a weekly basis - more expensive span vs. more expensive operations. I kinda like the idea of going 4/1 northbound on Sundays, as long as it can feed into the right number of lanes after that.


DJ Particle

Quote from: Alps on September 28, 2020, 11:40:52 PM
Quote from: dkblake on September 28, 2020, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: pderocco on September 23, 2020, 05:43:30 PM
I still think they should do a third bridge in the middle. I'll bet a majority of Cape traffic comes from MA-25 and I-195, since it "drains" such a large area, and most of it goes down US-6, to the bulk of the Cape.

Nah- plenty of US 6 <-> Boston traffic- the US 6 control city is Boston, after all. I grew up on Cape and knew a few people who made that commute. I know the "third bridge" comes up, but the two bridges as is are a whole 4 miles apart, and any bridge in the middle would connect, what, a fishing parking lot to another fishing parking lot? Just add another lane both ways on both bridges and make the lanes wide enough to accommodate cars built after 1940 and you're good.
Concur. Each bridge should be 5 lanes with a reversible center lane, or 6 lanes without. Depends what they feel like operating on a weekly basis - more expensive span vs. more expensive operations. I kinda like the idea of going 4/1 northbound on Sundays, as long as it can feed into the right number of lanes after that.

Last I was aware, the new spans will be freeway-standard twin-spans with two traffic lanes and one aux lane, and a barrier-separated bike/ped lane... per span.

froggie

Quote from: DJ Particle on September 04, 2020, 02:02:23 AM
Bourne:
3 - Rotary on MA-28 at south end of bridge (AFAIK this will remain even with the new bridges)

Replying late here but the plan did consider an interchange and has not ruled it out.  Per the draft MassDOT study, much of the selected rotary alternative could be incorporated into the interchange concept.

noelbotevera

A week long trip last month took me to Bennington, Vermont by way of Massachusetts; I passed by this sign in Williamstown.

As far as I know this is the only mention of a Canadian city in the entire state, but it strikes me as odd that they chose to use Montreal as a control city here. I don't know if Vermont uses it. Considering most destinations used are local, MA should sign Bennington (oddly enough Bennington is never signed as a control city, preferring Pownal until you enter Vermont).  Or, at the very least, sign MA 2 East for Boston.

Ben114

Quote from: noelbotevera on September 30, 2020, 01:25:06 PM
Considering most destinations used are local

Quote
at the very least, sign MA 2 East for Boston.

The irony. (Location: Williamstown, 137 miles from Boston via MA 2)

In Vermont, Bennington and Rutland seem to be preferred on US 7.

noelbotevera

Quote from: Ben114 on September 30, 2020, 03:42:47 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 30, 2020, 01:25:06 PM
Considering most destinations used are local

Quote
at the very least, sign MA 2 East for Boston.

The irony. (Location: Williamstown, 137 miles from Boston via MA 2)

In Vermont, Bennington and Rutland seem to be preferred on US 7.
Blargh, English. I meant that if US 7 is using Montreal, MA 2 should use both North Adams and Boston. After all, MA 2 is the best route to Boston from here.

Jim

Quote from: noelbotevera on September 30, 2020, 01:25:06 PM
A week long trip last month took me to Bennington, Vermont by way of Massachusetts; I passed by this sign in Williamstown.

As far as I know this is the only mention of a Canadian city in the entire state, but it strikes me as odd that they chose to use Montreal as a control city here. I don't know if Vermont uses it. Considering most destinations used are local, MA should sign Bennington (oddly enough Bennington is never signed as a control city, preferring Pownal until you enter Vermont).  Or, at the very least, sign MA 2 East for Boston.

I doubt it's the intent with the sign, but if I'm in Williamstown, headed to Montreal, I probably do start out on US 7 north, but I cut over to I-87 somewhere (my preferred route when living there was US 7->VT/NY 346->NY 22->NY 7->along the Tomhannock Reservoir->NY 67->I-87).

I don't recall that sign when I lived there ('00-'07) so maybe it's a relatively recent change?
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noelbotevera

Quote from: Jim on September 30, 2020, 03:59:34 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 30, 2020, 01:25:06 PM
A week long trip last month took me to Bennington, Vermont by way of Massachusetts; I passed by this sign in Williamstown.

As far as I know this is the only mention of a Canadian city in the entire state, but it strikes me as odd that they chose to use Montreal as a control city here. I don't know if Vermont uses it. Considering most destinations used are local, MA should sign Bennington (oddly enough Bennington is never signed as a control city, preferring Pownal until you enter Vermont).  Or, at the very least, sign MA 2 East for Boston.

I doubt it's the intent with the sign, but if I'm in Williamstown, headed to Montreal, I probably do start out on US 7 north, but I cut over to I-87 somewhere (my preferred route when living there was US 7->VT/NY 346->NY 22->NY 7->along the Tomhannock Reservoir->NY 67->I-87).

I don't recall that sign when I lived there ('00-'07) so maybe it's a relatively recent change?
I could buy that, since Google recommends that exact route from there to Montreal. It also recommends US 7 -> I-89. Either way, you still start on US 7; wouldn't make much sense to take anything else.

roadman

Quote from: noelbotevera on September 30, 2020, 01:25:06 PM
A week long trip last month took me to Bennington, Vermont by way of Massachusetts; I passed by this sign in Williamstown.

As far as I know this is the only mention of a Canadian city in the entire state, but it strikes me as odd that they chose to use Montreal as a control city here. I don't know if Vermont uses it. Considering most destinations used are local, MA should sign Bennington (oddly enough Bennington is never signed as a control city, preferring Pownal until you enter Vermont).  Or, at the very least, sign MA 2 East for Boston.


That install is likely from the mid-1990s, shortly after MassHighway changed the specs for 'paddle' signs to require route shields on all signs.  The giveaway in this case is the 24 inch shield, which was briefly specified for the top-mounted signs.  As for the Montreal Que destination, a common practice at the time when replacing these signs under routine maintenance was to update the sign to the new standards, but replicate the existing destinations on the new panel.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

bob7374

Have posted my latest collection of photos documenting the MA 18 widening project in Weymouth and Abington, some progress has been made this past summer, the widened highway has been paved in many places, such as near the Abington and Weymouth border:


The remainder of the photos are at: http://malmeroads.net/mass21c/miscsigns.html#southshore

Pete from Boston

They paved over the awful concrete leading down into the Big Dig in the southbound direction; does anyone know if there's any plan to do this coming north into the tunnel? The pavement is horrible.There's almost as much patch as there is concrete.

pderocco

Quote from: dkblake on September 28, 2020, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: pderocco on September 23, 2020, 05:43:30 PM
I still think they should do a third bridge in the middle. I'll bet a majority of Cape traffic comes from MA-25 and I-195, since it "drains" such a large area, and most of it goes down US-6, to the bulk of the Cape.

Nah- plenty of US 6 <-> Boston traffic- the US 6 control city is Boston, after all. I grew up on Cape and knew a few people who made that commute. I know the "third bridge" comes up, but the two bridges as is are a whole 4 miles apart, and any bridge in the middle would connect, what, a fishing parking lot to another fishing parking lot? Just add another lane both ways on both bridges and make the lanes wide enough to accommodate cars built after 1940 and you're good.

This is a late answer, but: It would provide a direct connection from MA-25 to US-6, high over the canal and the roads that parallel it. As someone who used to have houses in Bridgewater and Provincetown, getting between the Bourne and Sagamore bridges added 15-30 minutes to the drive in the summer, compared to sailing over the canal with no surface roads. I'll bet even a lot of people from within 128 would choose MA-24 to I-495 to MA-25 as an alternative.

Pete from Boston

Quote from: pderocco on October 27, 2020, 10:06:38 PM
Quote from: dkblake on September 28, 2020, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: pderocco on September 23, 2020, 05:43:30 PM
I still think they should do a third bridge in the middle. I'll bet a majority of Cape traffic comes from MA-25 and I-195, since it "drains" such a large area, and most of it goes down US-6, to the bulk of the Cape.

Nah- plenty of US 6 <-> Boston traffic- the US 6 control city is Boston, after all. I grew up on Cape and knew a few people who made that commute. I know the "third bridge" comes up, but the two bridges as is are a whole 4 miles apart, and any bridge in the middle would connect, what, a fishing parking lot to another fishing parking lot? Just add another lane both ways on both bridges and make the lanes wide enough to accommodate cars built after 1940 and you're good.

This is a late answer, but: It would provide a direct connection from MA-25 to US-6, high over the canal and the roads that parallel it. As someone who used to have houses in Bridgewater and Provincetown, getting between the Bourne and Sagamore bridges added 15-30 minutes to the drive in the summer, compared to sailing over the canal with no surface roads. I'll bet even a lot of people from within 128 would choose MA-24 to I-495 to MA-25 as an alternative.

I feel like whatever agony and headache would be required to connect 25 and 3 would be more likely than any third bridge.

DJ Particle

Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 29, 2020, 09:54:41 AM
I feel like whatever agony and headache would be required to connect 25 and 3 would be more likely than any third bridge.

Connect I-195 to the PPH?

Construct a tight half-interior jughandle interchange at Bournedale (similar to the intersection of MN-13 and Hennepin CSAH-101?)

Flyover/under ramp from MA-25 East/MA-28 South to US-6 East (to go with the proposed direct ramp from US-6 West to MA-25 West)?

MA-25 Exit 11 just south of the Bourne Bridge to replace the rotary, along with an upgrade of Sandwich Rd. to 4 lanes?

froggie

Optimally, start a route on 28 south of the Bourne Rotary, and cut across Otis to 6.

Meanwhile, I missed this from a month ago:

Quote from: noelboteveraAs far as I know this is the only mention of a Canadian city in the entire state, but it strikes me as odd that they chose to use Montreal as a control city here. I don't know if Vermont uses it.

Vermont does use Montreal along US 7 but not as a direct control city for 7.  Instead, it signs Montreal at turnoffs from 7 towards I-89, namely the Georgia exit and at VT 207.  89 itself doesn't have Montreal as a control city until north of Exit 19 (the main St. Albans exit).

kefkafloyd

Surprised no one mentioned it, but exit 2A on the Mass Pike (the proposed one in Blandford) is D-E-D dead after locals voted against it back in July. It lost by a 63 yes-79 no vote. The thirty mile gap will remain.

https://www.berkshireeagle.com/archives/lawmakers-agree-if-blandford-doesnt-want-new-pike-exit-case-closed/article_17856f5a-6a43-5b38-9be1-e20f4241e746.html

Pete from Boston

#1416
Quote from: kefkafloyd on November 26, 2020, 10:53:36 PM
Surprised no one mentioned it, but exit 2A on the Mass Pike (the proposed one in Blandford) is D-E-D dead after locals voted against it back in July. It lost by a 63 yes-79 no vote. The thirty mile gap will remain.

https://www.berkshireeagle.com/archives/lawmakers-agree-if-blandford-doesnt-want-new-pike-exit-case-closed/article_17856f5a-6a43-5b38-9be1-e20f4241e746.html

142 people voted in a town with ~800 people of voting age. And seemingly everyone quoted is past retirement age, implying most of the people who are going to live longest with this decision declined to participate. This is why you get off your butt and vote in local elections.

That said, in my experience in local issues, it is said over and over that you schedule votes/hearings in the middle of the summer if you want the least participation possible.

SectorZ

Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 27, 2020, 05:05:33 AM
Quote from: kefkafloyd on November 26, 2020, 10:53:36 PM
Surprised no one mentioned it, but exit 2A on the Mass Pike (the proposed one in Blandford) is D-E-D dead after locals voted against it back in July. It lost by a 63 yes-79 no vote. The thirty mile gap will remain.

https://www.berkshireeagle.com/archives/lawmakers-agree-if-blandford-doesnt-want-new-pike-exit-case-closed/article_17856f5a-6a43-5b38-9be1-e20f4241e746.html

142 people voted in a town with ~800 people of voting age. And seemingly everyone quoted is past retirement age, implying most of the people who are going to live longest with this decision declined to participate. This is why you get off your butt and vote in local elections.

That said, in my experience in local issues, it is said over and over that you schedule votes/hearings in the middle of the summer if you want the least participation possible.

And per the story, the town could have waited to put it on the November ballot. 781 people voted out of of 976 registered voters that day.

I would rather see an exit at MA 8 instead anyways but apparently that's DOA.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 27, 2020, 05:05:33 AM
Quote from: kefkafloyd on November 26, 2020, 10:53:36 PM
Surprised no one mentioned it, but exit 2A on the Mass Pike (the proposed one in Blandford) is D-E-D dead after locals voted against it back in July. It lost by a 63 yes-79 no vote. The thirty mile gap will remain.

https://www.berkshireeagle.com/archives/lawmakers-agree-if-blandford-doesnt-want-new-pike-exit-case-closed/article_17856f5a-6a43-5b38-9be1-e20f4241e746.html

142 people voted in a town with ~800 people of voting age. And seemingly everyone quoted is past retirement age, implying most of the people who are going to live longest with this decision declined to participate. This is why you get off your butt and vote in local elections.

That said, in my experience in local issues, it is said over and over that you schedule votes/hearings in the middle of the summer if you want the least participation possible.
Voter turnout is such an issue in America.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

Pete from Boston

#1419
These are being put up this morning at the intersection of Route 16 and 38 (Mystic Valley Parkway and Winthrop Street) in Medford. I have to wonder, does the DCR just have a whole bunch of Helvetica-numeraled signs on hand, or are they actually making them anew?

In fairness, I don't know if this is DCR or their contractor, but the DCR bug is down there in the lower righthand corner.


5foot14

Quote from: Pete from Boston on December 02, 2020, 11:37:16 AM
These are being put up this morning at the intersection of Route 16 and 38 (Mystic Valley Parkway and Winthrop Street) in Medford. I have to wonder, does the DCR just have a whole bunch of Helvetica-numeraled signs on hand, or are they actually making them anew?

In fairness, I don't know if this is DCR or their contractor, but the DCR bug is down there in the lower righthand corner.


DCR does have their own sign shop so they may be making them new. Doesn't mean they should be making their own signs though, they clearly have no idea what they are doing and standards be damned.

In my personal opinion, DCR should hand over all their road maintenance functions (signs, pavement markings,  and traffic signals) to MassDOT and focus on maintaining the parks. They are not a transportation agency and it shows.

SM-A515U


Pete from Boston

#1421
Quote from: 5foot14 on December 02, 2020, 01:31:06 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on December 02, 2020, 11:37:16 AM
These are being put up this morning at the intersection of Route 16 and 38 (Mystic Valley Parkway and Winthrop Street) in Medford. I have to wonder, does the DCR just have a whole bunch of Helvetica-numeraled signs on hand, or are they actually making them anew?

In fairness, I don't know if this is DCR or their contractor, but the DCR bug is down there in the lower righthand corner.


DCR does have their own sign shop so they may be making them new. Doesn't mean they should be making their own signs though, they clearly have no idea what they are doing and standards be damned.

In my personal opinion, DCR should hand over all their road maintenance functions (signs, pavement markings,  and traffic signals) to MassDOT and focus on maintaining the parks. They are not a transportation agency and it shows.

SM-A515U

It's tricky because a lot of those roads are secondary to the parks they are in, but for the most part I agree with you.

kramie13

With the exits being renumbered and MA 25 being recently completed, this leads me to ask:

If you were to travel from say, Franklin, down to the cape, why do you have 495 south ending and suddenly becoming 25 east in Wareham?  Wouldn't it make more sense to have MA 25 be a part of I-495 or I-195?  Then you would have exit numbers measuring either the distance to/from the Bourne Bridge (I-495) or to/from the RI border (I-195).  Now, you have exit numbers decreasing to zero, then increasing to 10.

Alps

Quote from: kramie13 on December 03, 2020, 05:02:43 PM
With the exits being renumbered and MA 25 being recently completed, this leads me to ask:

If you were to travel from say, Franklin, down to the cape, why do you have 495 south ending and suddenly becoming 25 east in Wareham?  Wouldn't it make more sense to have MA 25 be a part of I-495 or I-195?  Then you would have exit numbers measuring either the distance to/from the Bourne Bridge (I-495) or to/from the RI border (I-195).  Now, you have exit numbers decreasing to zero, then increasing to 10.
Interstate highways need Federal approval to exist, so MA didn't bother looking for that section. If it's up to standards they could look into it - it would make sense for it to be I-195 so that you're not re-mileposting all of I-495.

Pete from Boston

Quote from: Alps on December 03, 2020, 06:09:22 PM
Quote from: kramie13 on December 03, 2020, 05:02:43 PM
With the exits being renumbered and MA 25 being recently completed, this leads me to ask:

If you were to travel from say, Franklin, down to the cape, why do you have 495 south ending and suddenly becoming 25 east in Wareham?  Wouldn't it make more sense to have MA 25 be a part of I-495 or I-195?  Then you would have exit numbers measuring either the distance to/from the Bourne Bridge (I-495) or to/from the RI border (I-195).  Now, you have exit numbers decreasing to zero, then increasing to 10.
Interstate highways need Federal approval to exist, so MA didn't bother looking for that section. If it's up to standards they could look into it - it would make sense for it to be I-195 so that you're not re-mileposting all of I-495.

I follow your logic, but having an Interstate number take a turn rather than keeping the intuitive, straight one is the most Massachusetts solution of them all.



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