Unique about Something Common

[NE2]

Exit 6 in NJ is typically numbered, as the exit is the spur branching off.  Ditto for 14.  Don't know much about other agencies, but having a distinct number for the barrier alone strikes me as the exception.  If MA did things like this, 14/15 would be 14, and 18/19/20 would be 17 (due to 14/15 being a single number).

16E-17-18E is very similar to Mass's 18-19-20.

[vdeane]

I think there's some history there as well, from what I glean in the old photos of the NJ Turnpike thread.

[NE2]

Yep. Originally 16 was NJ 495 (same toll booth as now), 17 was four ramps at the NJ 3 crossing (the ramp from NJ 3 east still exists), and 18 was the toll booth right at the north end.
http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~212265~5500324:Shell-Map-of-Metropolitan-New-York,?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No
http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials.php?scale=5&lat=40.782&lon=-74.053&year=1954

[Kacie Jane]

I think the main difference between the New Jersey Turnpike and the Massachusetts Turnpike is that in New Jersey, the mainline barriers only appear at the ends -- granted that with the spurs, there's more than two ends.  So you have a toll barrier with a number that doesn't exactly correspond to an actual exit*, but IMHO, you don't have a true 18-19-20 situation, since the exits on the other side of the barrier are unnumbered (or in the case of the northern end, numbered with an entirely different sequence).

*There's no Exit 14C for the Holland Tunnel.  You pay the toll at barrier 14C, then you have your choice of at least two exits before you get to NJ 139.  Likewise, as much as Rand McNally insists on labelling as such, 18 is not the exit number for US 46 at the northern end.  As mentioned, it's the number for the barrier south of there.  Street view shows US 46 as Exit 68 from one of the roadways SB, unnumbered on the other one.  NB it's unnumbered as well, with 68 being the number for Challenger Road, the next exit north.

[Bud8Amp88]

Strangely, I think Nova Scotia is guilty of giving a toll booth an exit number as well. The section of T.C.H. 104 between exits 7 and 12 is tolled - the first exit east of the toll plaza is Exit 10, and the first exit west of the plaza is Exit 8. So it's possible that Exit 9 is the toll plaza itself. Not quite the same as your examples, as the booth is several kms between 8 and 10, but figured I'd throw it out there.

[Kacie Jane]

Yeah, I don't think the concept of giving a toll booth a number is terribly unique.  What makes Massachusetts unique is that there's a toll booth essentially in the middle of an interchange, causing them to give the two halves of the interchange separate numbers.

[bugo]

Old US 62 and the Burlington Northern Railroad cross Georges Creek in north central Arkansas.

http://goo.gl/maps/geDEP

[jeffandnicole]

This all stems from the fact that the Massachusetts Turnpike gave the barriers themselves exit numbers (I do not know of any other toll road that did this).

The New Jersey Turnpike still does - 1, 6, 14, 14C, 18E, and 18W are all major barriers. Looking through my 1965 Rand McNally, I also see Florida (exit 1 was the south barrier toll, and it now appears in places as exit 0X), Indiana, Ohio, Oklahoma (exit 7 is "State Line Toll Booth"), and Pennsylvania.

I don't think they have anything as pervasive as MA.  Normally those barriers would be referred to by the same number as the interchange.  Many places give such barriers the same number as the next exit past it, as is the case for most PA and NJ barriers.  Exit 6 in NJ is typically numbered, as the exit is the spur branching off.  Ditto for 14.  Don't know much about other agencies, but having a distinct number for the barrier alone strikes me as the exception.  If MA did things like this, 14/15 would be 14, and 18/19/20 would be 17 (due to 14/15 being a single number).

What is unique (or, at the very least, a bit confunsing), is this progression going South in New Jersey on the Turnpike, then 295, then the Delaware Memorial Bridge, in about a 3 mile span:

Interchange 1 Toll Barrier (on NJ Turnpike)
Unnumbered Exit (to NJ 140/County Route 540)
Exit 1 (on I-295, to NJ 49)

[roadman65]

Well if the NJTA ever converts to mile based exits, the Exit 1 Plaza will be given the nearest whole number mile post.  Then NJ 140 would become Exit 2, and NJ 49 could stay as is Exit 1 for both highways.

[Brandon]

Yeah, I don't think the concept of giving a toll booth a number is terribly unique.  What makes Massachusetts unique is that there's a toll booth essentially in the middle of an interchange, causing them to give the two halves of the interchange separate numbers.

That's the unique part about it.  ISTHA (East-West Twy I-88) had toll plazas in the middle of two interchanges (Annie Glidden Rd & Dixon), Kentucky seems to have used them exclusively, and there are several on the Oklahoma Turnpikes.  However, to the best of my knowledge, the exit numbers (except for ISTHA which did not have them at the time) were not split.  On the other hand, the East-West Twy did have separate plaza numbers (2 at Annie Glidden Rd; 3 at Dixon) at these interchanges.

[Kacie Jane]

Well if the NJTA ever converts to mile based exits, the Exit 1 Plaza will be given the nearest whole number mile post.  Then NJ 140 would become Exit 2, and NJ 49 could stay as is Exit 1 for both highways.

Except that the turnpike's mileposts start at 0 at I-295 (not at the state line).  So NJ 140 is at milepost 1.12, which most people would say should be Exit 1 (not that there's anything stopping you from fudging it a bit).

[roadman65]

Well if the NJTA ever converts to mile based exits, the Exit 1 Plaza will be given the nearest whole number mile post.  Then NJ 140 would become Exit 2, and NJ 49 could stay as is Exit 1 for both highways.

Except that the turnpike's mileposts start at 0 at I-295 (not at the state line).  So NJ 140 is at milepost 1.12, which most people would say should be Exit 1 (not that there's anything stopping you from fudging it a bit).

You want to talk about fudging, look at the Garden State Parkway.  Exit 123 is north of MM 124, and Exit 124 is closest to MM 125.  There is a long gap between Exits 120 and 123, which really does not need to fudge, but even in Clark, NJ you have Exit 135 located at the MM 136 as well.    No one really notices, and in fact if I was not stuck in traffic going to the NJ Shore, I would have never even noticed the error.  Sometimes it pays to fudge to avoid the zero exit situation as many roadways do that already. 

[agentsteel53]

Other than the Panamerican Highway, are there cases of mileage signs for cities it's impossible to drive to?  Such as the distance to Alaska from Patagonia, when there is no road between the two?

was just reading, on a motorcycle forum, about the distance from Magadan to Anadyr in Siberia.  there is a sign.  there isn't a road.

[roadman65]

The New York State Thruway has a unique situation where there are two exit number 15s.  You have the Woodbury Toll Plaza near Harriman (southern ticket terminus) that is actually "EXIT 15" for collection purposes, and then you have a signed Exit 15 for I-287 and NJ 17 at Suffern.

[NE2]

I had a dream about exit 15 and one of the mods here not wanting it known that there was an authorized vehicles only crossover in the middle of the interchange.

[roadman65]

 I had a dream where I won the lottery and bought my own interchange and did something that the politicians would do, but then I woke up.   Or maybe it was Rod Sterling who took me to the Twilight Zone.

[agentsteel53]

bought my own interchange and did something that the politicians would do

give it a senseless route number and absurdly low speed limit?

[vdeane]

The New York State Thruway has a unique situation where there are two exit number 15s.  You have the Woodbury Toll Plaza near Harriman (southern ticket terminus) that is actually "EXIT 15" for collection purposes, and then you have a signed Exit 15 for I-287 and NJ 17 at Suffern.

The Thruway Authority refers to barriers by name rather than number, so I'm not sure that it's really a case of having two 15s (especially since it's INSIDE exit 16!).  They probably didn't feel the need to mark the ticket 15A since the majority of traffic is going to I-287 (in some way, shape, or form, if you count the multiplex) rather than the southern section of NY 17.  The real exit 15 even has a FIVE mile advance sign heading south.

EDIT: Especially since exit 15 was on the ticket system before the barrier was moved from Spring Valley.

[jeffandnicole]

A uniqueness of something common...in a non-toll road category:

The NJ four-headed traffic lights, with the combo green/yellow arrow.  Rarely do you see this setup outside of NJ.  Likewise, rarely do you see a 5 headed signal (tower or doghouse) within NJ. Burlington County is the rare exception of an agency that generally uses those 5 headed signals.

[bugo]

I believe, as it was pointed out in another necro thread that died because of one instance, that the Battery Park Underpass and the Brooklyn- Battery Tunnel cross each other underground.  Very common among roads and railroads, or railroads with other railroads, but this is only one such instance of two road tunnels that crisscross each other.

A rarity, though, is the tunnel under the front of the Philadelphia Art Museum.  It is one of the most narrow tunnels around and only is one lane and one way.  Looking at it on GSV even gives one clostraphobia even if tight spaces are something that someone is normally not affected by.

I know of some very narrow one lane tunnels that were built underneath railroad tracks.

Here's one on Polk 25 in Arkansas, near Hatfield and Cove.  It is rather narrow but I've seen pictures of some that were narrower, so narrow that I'd be afraid to take a regular car through:

[bugo]

This all stems from the fact that the Massachusetts Turnpike gave the barriers themselves exit numbers (I do not know of any other toll road that did this).

The New Jersey Turnpike still does - 1, 6, 14, 14C, 18E, and 18W are all major barriers. Looking through my 1965 Rand McNally, I also see Florida (exit 1 was the south barrier toll, and it now appears in places as exit 0X), Indiana, Ohio, Oklahoma (exit 7 is "State Line Toll Booth"), and Pennsylvania.

On which Oklahoma turnpike?  Will Rogers?

[roadman]

Actually, the Allston Brighton (or the 'AB' as locals often call it) is Exit 18 eastbound, and Exits 19-20 westbound

??
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=42.355357,-71.118407&spn=0.014461,0.033023&gl=us&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=42.355274,-71.118371&panoid=HWKL6jts3AONHgYZbm9obg&cbp=12,339.21,,0,0.91

It's exit 18 eastbound, 20 westbound, and 19 is the toll barrier for through traffic.

Appreciate the clarification - thanks.

[roadman]

I've been told that this "quirk" will be corrected to a single number for the whole interchange (any guesses as to which of the three numbers they'll keep) when the guide signs are replaced under the 2015 Millbury to Boston project.

At the risk of veering this thread off-topic, any word on whether 130 (the milepost) is a likely candidate?

It is my understanding that the exit tabs on the pending MassPike sign replacement work (as with all other subsequent MassDOT freeway sign projects) will be designed to accommodate the future mileage-based numbers, but that they will be fabricated with the current sequential numbers for now.

[NE2]

The New Jersey Turnpike still does - 1, 6, 14, 14C, 18E, and 18W are all major barriers. Looking through my 1965 Rand McNally, I also see Florida (exit 1 was the south barrier toll, and it now appears in places as exit 0X), Indiana, Ohio, Oklahoma (exit 7 is "State Line Toll Booth"), and Pennsylvania.

On which Oklahoma turnpike?  Will Rogers?

The only one with a state line toll booth.

[bugo]

There aren't any toll booths at any state lines in Oklahoma.