Cities Well-Served by the Interstate System

[webny99]

All Midwestern cities are pretty well off when it comes to Interstates.

Except for St. Cloud, MN, and Kokomo, IN.

[sprjus4]

All Midwestern cities are pretty well off when it comes to Interstates.

Except for St. Cloud, MN, and Kokomo, IN.

Those aren't large metropolitan areas.

[M3100]

We need an outer beltway for me to be satisfied with the DC area freeway system.

Agreed - or at least an outer "half belt" to get around downtown DC.  The current beltway gets seriously congested, with no straightforward alternate route. It would probably be more realistic to build an outer belt to the west, though with everything built up now I don't think the land could be acquired.

[sprjus4]

We need an outer beltway for me to be satisfied with the DC area freeway system.

Agreed - or at least an outer "half belt" to get around downtown DC.  The current beltway gets seriously congested, with no straightforward alternate route. It would probably be more realistic to build an outer belt to the west, though with everything built up now I don't think the land could be acquired.

Eastern route along VA-207 and US-301 between I-95 at Ruther Glen to US-50 / I-97 near Annapolis. Widen US-50 / US-301 to 8 lanes including a new / third Chesapeake Bay Bridge, and upgrade US-301 to interstate standards to DE-1.

[thspfc]

All Midwestern cities are pretty well off when it comes to Interstates.

Except for St. Cloud, MN, and Kokomo, IN.

St. Cloud is served by I-94. There are many cities its size that do not have any Interstates near them. As for Kokomo, we'll see if that US-31 corridor ever becomes an Interstate.

[Hwy 61 Revisited]

It would probably be more realistic to build an outer belt to the west, though with everything built up now I don't think the land could be acquired.

Preferably one that gets far enough to reach Dulles International Airport.

[webny99]

All Midwestern cities are pretty well off when it comes to Interstates.

Except for St. Cloud, MN, and Kokomo, IN.

Those aren't large metropolitan areas.

St. Cloud is served by I-94. There are many cities its size that do not have any Interstates near them. As for Kokomo, we'll see if that US-31 corridor ever becomes an Interstate.

Yes, but they are certainly included among "all Midwestern cities", no?

As far as St. Cloud, the reason I included it is because it isn't really served all that well by I-94. There are connections, but not very good ones. To go westbound, you have to go through St. Joseph on surface streets, and to go eastbound, you have to use surface streets too, and even then sometimes US 10 is faster. You would never know from driving along I-94 that you were anywhere near St. Cloud. There's not even any development near the highway except for a little bit near Exit 171.

[sprjus4]

All Midwestern cities are pretty well off when it comes to Interstates.

Except for St. Cloud, MN, and Kokomo, IN.

Those aren't large metropolitan areas.

St. Cloud is served by I-94. There are many cities its size that do not have any Interstates near them. As for Kokomo, we'll see if that US-31 corridor ever becomes an Interstate.

Yes, but they are certainly included among "all Midwestern cities", no?

As far as St. Cloud, the reason I included it is because it isn't really served all that well by I-94. There are connections, but not very good ones. To go westbound, you have to go through St. Joseph on surface streets, and to go eastbound, you have to use surface streets too, and even then sometimes US 10 is faster. You would never know from driving along I-94 that you were anywhere near St. Cloud. There's not even any development near the highway except for a little bit near Exit 171.

Are we forgetting that MN-15 is a 65 mph freeway between Downtown and I-94?

[webny99]

Are we forgetting that MN-15 is a 65 mph freeway between Downtown and I-94?

The freeway ends about 2 miles west of downtown, and it's not the preferred route to get to either direction of I-94. Google Maps says it's 5 minutes longer to get to I-94 EB, and similar time-wise to get to I-94 WB (because of St. Joseph), but almost 5 miles longer. That is not great connectivity by any stretch of the imagination.

[sprjus4]

Are we forgetting that MN-15 is a 65 mph freeway between Downtown and I-94?

The freeway ends about 2 miles west of downtown, and it's not the preferred route to get to either direction of I-94. Google Maps says it's 5 minutes longer to get to I-94 EB, and similar time-wise to get to I-94 WB (because of St. Joseph), but almost 5 miles longer. That is not great connectivity by any stretch of the imagination.

Assuming you're coming from Downtown. Anywhere in the central area has easy access to the freeway.

Bottom line is that St. Cloud is served by I-94. It doesn't ride up along Downtown, but it still provides access to/from the area to the rest of the system.

[webny99]

OK, let's just say it's a minimum of 10 minutes to get to the interstate, and possibly as much as 20, depending on where you start and which direction you're going. That does not meet my definition of "served", but that's just my opinion. Even if MN 15 was an interstate it might be a different story.

[sprjus4]

OK, let's just say it's a minimum of 10 minutes to get to the interstate, and possibly as much as 20, depending on where you start and which direction you're going. That does not meet my definition of "served", but that's just my opinion. Even if MN 15 was an interstate it might be a different story.

The urban area extends out to I-94. It's served by I-94.

Under your definition, Fayetteville, NC and Wilmington, NC would not be served by I-95 and I-40 respectively, even though the latter was built specifically with the intent to connect with Wilmington despite not hugging Downtown.

[webny99]

The urban area extends out to I-94. It's served by I-94.

Barely, if you use your imagination. And not the city - I thought we were talking about the city.

Under your definition, Fayetteville, NC and Wilmington, NC would not be served by I-95 and I-40 respectively, even though the latter was built specifically with the intent to connect with Wilmington despite not hugging Downtown.

I never said what my definition was, only that it doesn't include St. Cloud.
Fayetteville is absolutely served by the interstate system. It's served by I-295 and I-95 Business, but not by I-95 itself. Wilmington I would say, yes, it is served by I-40, because I-40 runs towards downtown and ends in close proximity to downtown. You also have I-140.

Those are different situations to St. Cloud, where there are no 3dis, and I-94 would never be used for any trips within the metro area. In fact, I would say that's a defining characteristic of whether a place is "served" by the interstate system or not. If people are using interstate for trips within the metro area, then it is served. The more this occurs, the closer you get to "well-served", which is what this topic was originally supposed to be about.

[sprjus4]

I never said what my definition was, only that it doesn't include St. Cloud.
Fayetteville is absolutely served by the interstate system. It's served by I-295 and I-95 Business, but not by I-95 itself. Wilmington I would say, yes, it is served by I-40, because I-40 runs towards downtown and ends in close proximity to downtown. You also have I-140.

I-95 Business is not an interstate highway.

I-295 and I-140 are relatively new interstates. Before 2000, only I-95 and I-40 respectively served them.

I-40 would not be used for local trips unless heading to the outskirts of the metro.

Those are different situations to St. Cloud, where there are no 3dis, and I-94 would never be used for any trips within the metro area. In fact, I would say that's a defining characteristic of whether a place is "served" by the interstate system or not. If people are using interstate for trips within the metro area, then it is served. The more this occurs, the closer you get to "well-served", which is what this topic was originally supposed to be about.

I interpreted the OP as connections to the rest of the system. A metro like Indianapolis that has an interstate spoke to the northeast, east, southeast, south (future), west, southwest, and northwest is well-served, whereas a metro like Hampton Roads only has one spoke to the northwest, and lacks connections south, southwest, and northeast, and is underserved. Not necessarily how it runs in the area itself. The Hampton Roads metro has good connections internally, though ultimately merges into a single interstate out one direction, and many arterial highways to reach the rest of the system.

[webny99]

I interpreted the OP as connections to the rest of the system. ...  Not necessarily how it runs in the area itself.

Yeah, no disagreement there, but the area itself at least has to have some interstates. If you have to go out of your way to even get to an interstate, then it's not really well-served.

[sprjus4]

I interpreted the OP as connections to the rest of the system. ...  Not necessarily how it runs in the area itself.

Yeah, no disagreement there, but the area itself at least has to have some interstates. If you have to go out of your way to even get to an interstate, then it's not really well-served.

Less than 10 miles is not out of the way. Not to mention, a freeway connects to the urban area from I-94, even if it's not directly riding up to Downtown.

Having to drive 70 miles from Hampton Roads to I-95 South or 100 miles to I-85 South along US-58 is out of the way and not well served.

[webny99]

Not to drag up St. Cloud again, but as I said earlier, we're talking about the actual interstate system, not just all freeways. If MN 15 was a 3di maybe I'd think differently.

I agree, the Hampton Roads area is not particularly well-served. An interstate along the general US 58 corridor, or otherwise heading south/south-west providing better connectivity to the South, would change that.

[sprjus4]

I agree, the Hampton Roads area is not particularly well-served. An interstate along the general US 58 corridor, or otherwise heading south/south-west providing better connectivity to the South, would change that.

I-87 is planned along US-17 and US-64 to Raleigh in the future, but that won't be until at least 2045.

[kphoger]

As far as St. Cloud, the reason I included it is because it isn't really served all that well by I-94. There are connections, but not very good ones. To go westbound, you have to go through St. Joseph on surface streets, and to go eastbound, you have to use surface streets too, and even then sometimes US 10 is faster. You would never know from driving along I-94 that you were anywhere near St. Cloud. There's not even any development near the highway except for a little bit near Exit 171.

I've stayed at the HIE at Exit 171.  While it is quite a way from St Cloud itself, the area doesn't really feel disconnected from the city center to me.  Far away yes, but under-served no.  The only other time I've stayed in St Cloud, I was coming in from Princeton and therefore wasn't using I-94.



I'm curious to know what the pre-Interstate routing of US-52 was.  If it was through downtown St Cloud, then I'd say I-94 was purposely designed as a bypass.

[lakewobegon]

I live in St. Cloud, but that doesn't always mean this board might like my answer A city the size of St. Cloud has an interstate serving it, although all the exits converge to the Waite Park-St. Cloud border. That's where a lot of commercial stuff is (jct Hwy. 15 and 23), but it's not the center. And, Hwy. 15 is merely expressway through town with lights at nearly every intersection (and given St. Cloud's classic light timing, you stop at every one). St. Cloud also is along US 10 towards lake country (Brainerd), but has two traffic lights in town. The city is well served by state highways, as MN 23 is one of the few northeast-southwest roads in central and southern Minnesota. Still, you could argue that Rochester, a bigger city and too far from Minneapolis-St. Paul to be considered an exurb, has more limited service from I-90.

[sprjus4]

And, Hwy. 15 is merely expressway through town with lights at nearly every intersection (and given St. Cloud's classic light timing, you stop at every one).

I mentioned MN-15 since between I-94 and 2nd St (intersection before MN-23), the highway is built to full interstate standards and is posted at 65 mph. It's not an interstate highway, but it's still a freeway that functions as such.

Still, you could argue that Rochester, a bigger city and too far from Minneapolis-St. Paul to be considered an exurb, has more limited service from I-90.

US-52 is built to full interstate standards and is posted at 65 mph between Rochester and I-90 to the east, with the exception of the I-90 interchange itself which has intersections with the ramps. It's not an interstate highway, but it's still a freeway that functions as such.

[Henry]

Los Angeles definitely qualifies. You can take I-5 north to Sacramento/San Francisco (via I-580) or south to San Diego; I-10 east to Phoenix; and (in nearby San Bernardino) I-15 north to Las Vegas or south to San Diego. Plus there are many spurs to cover the area as well.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I'm curious to know what the pre-Interstate routing of US-52 was.  If it was through downtown St Cloud, then I'd say I-94 was purposely designed as a bypass.

Westbound piggybacked along MN 23 after leaving US 10, then left 23 at the MN 15 intersection where 23/75 bumps today. If anything is really needed in St. Cloud, it's improving the 15-23-75 junctions.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Additionally, some thoughts on St. Cloud.

1. It wasn't even half its size 50 years ago, so putting 94 through it probably wasn't a consideration or a need.

2. I think the current setup suits it fine. It has two high-speed E-W routes (well, NW-SE) that keep the substantial amounts of through traffic out of the city. It also has four-lane expressway access from the west via County 75 and southwest from MN 23. I don't get the "poorly served"  unless we're strictly speaking of how 94 is a little ways out.