Video: "The Stroad"

[SkyPesos]

Funny enough, I found a video from the same dude about biking to Ikea. Disclaimer: this video promotes biking way more than the average forum user here appreciates.

There is a line I agree with in that video: "I so often hear people talk about how they want the freedom to drive. But what about the freedom to not to have to drive?"

[Ned Weasel]

In my opinion, this video goes into better detail on the problems with so-called "stroads," although its context is pretty limited to North America and doesn't go to models from other continents:

The Median left turn lanes.

[SkyPesos]

In my opinion, this video goes into better detail on the problems with so-called "stroads," although its context is pretty limited to North America and doesn't go to models from other continents:

The Median left turn lanes.

[yt link clipped]

Considering that most of this forum is US/Canada based, I think it's a better video for our situations.

[hotdogPi]

Mainland European driving (UK unknown, not explicitly excluded) is definitely different. They get more vehicles per hour per lane (2600 instead of 2100), but I'm pretty sure that's driver behavior and not the roads themselves. In addition, fewer accidents, and KRETP strictly enforced. Many roundabouts. Malta, NY, which has a whole bunch of roundabouts compared to the rest of the US, wouldn't be out of place in the country of Malta.

Some countries have fines proportional to income. A traffic ticket is about a week's income.

The one disadvantage is the constant change in language.

[GaryV]

There's an IKEA in Amsterdam.  It's located next to a "road" (something high-speed and limited access with an exit), but that's relatively new since the satellite view shows dirt.  Around the other side of IKEA are two things that couldn't be considered anything but "stroads".  Any "streets" are on the opposite side of the "stroads" from IKEA.

So it appears that the Dutch don't get to IKEA by walking or biking, any more than those in the US or Canada do.

How do you get your stuff from IKEA to your home if you're walking or biking? Have you looked at places that don't sell huge items?

Exactly.  How do you get things like furniture, appliances, building supplies, etc. if there are no "stroads" to get to the big-box places that sell it?

[SEWIGuy]

There's an IKEA in Amsterdam.  It's located next to a "road" (something high-speed and limited access with an exit), but that's relatively new since the satellite view shows dirt.  Around the other side of IKEA are two things that couldn't be considered anything but "stroads".  Any "streets" are on the opposite side of the "stroads" from IKEA.

So it appears that the Dutch don't get to IKEA by walking or biking, any more than those in the US or Canada do.

How do you get your stuff from IKEA to your home if you're walking or biking? Have you looked at places that don't sell huge items?

Exactly.  How do you get things like furniture, appliances, building supplies, etc. if there are no "stroads" to get to the big-box places that sell it?

I mean, the Netherlands has found a way right?  Last time I was there, they seemed to have furniture, appliances and building supplies around.

[GaryV]

There's an IKEA in Amsterdam.  It's located next to a "road" (something high-speed and limited access with an exit), but that's relatively new since the satellite view shows dirt.  Around the other side of IKEA are two things that couldn't be considered anything but "stroads".  Any "streets" are on the opposite side of the "stroads" from IKEA.

So it appears that the Dutch don't get to IKEA by walking or biking, any more than those in the US or Canada do.

How do you get your stuff from IKEA to your home if you're walking or biking? Have you looked at places that don't sell huge items?

Exactly.  How do you get things like furniture, appliances, building supplies, etc. if there are no "stroads" to get to the big-box places that sell it?

I mean, the Netherlands has found a way right?  Last time I was there, they seemed to have furniture, appliances and building supplies around.

Because their IKEA is located near a "stroad".  I presume the same goes for appliance stores and building centers.

[SEWIGuy]

There's an IKEA in Amsterdam.  It's located next to a "road" (something high-speed and limited access with an exit), but that's relatively new since the satellite view shows dirt.  Around the other side of IKEA are two things that couldn't be considered anything but "stroads".  Any "streets" are on the opposite side of the "stroads" from IKEA.

So it appears that the Dutch don't get to IKEA by walking or biking, any more than those in the US or Canada do.

How do you get your stuff from IKEA to your home if you're walking or biking? Have you looked at places that don't sell huge items?

Exactly.  How do you get things like furniture, appliances, building supplies, etc. if there are no "stroads" to get to the big-box places that sell it?

I mean, the Netherlands has found a way right?  Last time I was there, they seemed to have furniture, appliances and building supplies around.

Because their IKEA is located near a "stroad".  I presume the same goes for appliance stores and building centers.

Is that actually the case, or is that just your guess.

[GaryV]

There's an IKEA in Amsterdam.  It's located next to a "road" (something high-speed and limited access with an exit), but that's relatively new since the satellite view shows dirt.  Around the other side of IKEA are two things that couldn't be considered anything but "stroads".  Any "streets" are on the opposite side of the "stroads" from IKEA.

So it appears that the Dutch don't get to IKEA by walking or biking, any more than those in the US or Canada do.

How do you get your stuff from IKEA to your home if you're walking or biking? Have you looked at places that don't sell huge items?

Exactly.  How do you get things like furniture, appliances, building supplies, etc. if there are no "stroads" to get to the big-box places that sell it?

I mean, the Netherlands has found a way right?  Last time I was there, they seemed to have furniture, appliances and building supplies around.

Because their IKEA is located near a "stroad".  I presume the same goes for appliance stores and building centers.

Is that actually the case, or is that just your guess.

I looked it up.  https://www.google.com/maps/place/IKEA/@52.3028063,4.947631,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x47c60b9cd46845bb:0x8193a8da81943287!8m2!3d52.302803!4d4.949825?hl=en

Freeway or similar to the south, yes.  But the exit of that freeway goes to what is pretty much the definition of a "stroad".  Street view:  https://www.google.com/maps/@52.3003208,4.9468302,3a,75y,318.95h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sk3ZvFQEWYLnViGi9yro_lA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dk3ZvFQEWYLnViGi9yro_lA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D331.96707%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

[tradephoric]

In my opinion, this video goes into better detail on the problems with so-called "stroads," although its context is pretty limited to North America and doesn't go to models from other continents:

The Median left turn lanes.

The production of that video was awesome!  The entire time watching this i was reminded of Woodward Avenue in Detroit.  The limited access median reduces the number of conflict points as described in the video.  Now I won't say Woodward is the most pedestrian friendly environment in the world, but it does dispel some of the arguments that a "stroad" is inefficient made in the first video. 

The original video argues that because there are so many crossroads, exists, and entrances to the "stroad" that traffic lights are required causing drivers to constantly stop at red lights.  But along a Median U-Turn corridors traffic lights can be largely avoided with simple RIRO and RCUT movements.  The traffic signals that do exist often only stop one direction of travel making efficient light timings possible.  The video also inexplicably argues that since speeds are high that light timings need to be long, leading to traffic induced congestion.  But again looking at Woodward they have relatively short light timings since the road is lined with innovative intersections that eliminate left-turn phases (made possible due to the wide-median).  Not to say that these short cycle lengths are useful to pedestrians, as the pedestrians can get "caught" in the wide-median... but still the premise of their argument is wrong as the posted speed limit has nothing to do with the required cycle length of a corridor.

Finally, the video argues that nobody is going anywhere quickly on a "stroad".  Well here's a video of a driver cruising 37.2 miles in 48 minutes down Woodward while driving through 109 consecutive green lights.  That's an average speed of 46.3 MPH (or 185.2 MPH at 4X speed).  While that may not be highway speeds, the video suggests that drivers are getting stuck at every other red light along a "stroad" and that's not necessarily the case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6823U0XJpDo

[sparker]

Funny enough, I found a video from the same dude about biking to Ikea. Disclaimer: this video promotes biking way more than the average forum user here appreciates.

There is a line I agree with in that video: "I so often hear people talk about how they want the freedom to drive. But what about the freedom to not to have to drive?"

That sentiment goes to policy choices:  does a public entity base policy primarily on grievance or aggregate demand?  Again, this video author has clearly aligned himself with a particular POV proferred by a contingent of city dwellers who don't wish to use automotive travel on a regular basis -- but would like to avail themselves of the commercial benefits afforded to those who can and do use their vehicles to access the type of establishments that tend to locate out on the "stroads" because of cost and land availability.  The transportation facilities, including selection of roadway configuration, follow the footsteps of these larger retailers.   Now -- some retailers have tried the approach of placing smaller-scale outlets in more densely-packed urban areas, even adopting the local formats for such* -- but with limitations on inventory and breadth of offerings dictated by those smaller spaces.  But some of the differentials between the "big box" stores out on the periphery and the outlets in urban areas have been bridged by online sales, some through dedicated web-based sites (e.g. Amazon, etc.) or sales sites operated by the retailers themselves (Wal-Mart online, the various home-improvement stores/sites), which generally place much if not all their inventory online.  Of course, delivery is required in that case, so there's some automotive access and incursion into the neighborhood(s) as that takes place.  The only drawback is that there's a lack of customer ability to actually see the purchased item prior to sale (unless it's a repeat or replacement purchase); this reduces the sale to dependence upon the retailer's description or, in a few select cases, user reviews.  The overall effect is to render many purchases functionally fungible -- selection is dependent upon price and availability rather than determined product quality or applicability.  If that doesn't concern the purchaser, then there's little or no need for that purchaser to venture beyond their "comfort zone", especially if that eschews automobile usage.  If it is a concern, then a dilemma is present -- the choice to prioritize the absence of vehicles in one's life or the ability to make a fully informed decision about purchases.  That one's going to be up to the individual to work out; it's something of a "have your cake and eat it too" situation.  If one chooses to limit their mobility, there will be consequences in the area of commercial choice as outlined above.  If that mobility is constrained by a situation beyond individual/family control, then that's a question that involves vastly more concern than simply transportation configuration. 

*Sears tried this approach some decades ago -- and we all know how that played out, sapping corporate resources until the company was no longer viable.