Oklahoma

[Bobby5280]

Prior to the mid 1990's when the median was just a grassy strip there might have still been a street curb in that location. I can't remember for sure since that was so long ago. With the narrow grassy hump removed and replaced with concrete I guess the highway engineers were probably worried about storm water possibly pooling in the left shoulder area of that wide left turn. But placing a street curb on the edge of the left lane creates a whole new set of problems.

[sprjus4]

If water ponding was an issue, they should have mitigated that through other means. Compromising highway safety by retaining a curb-and-gutter with no buffer in the left lane of a 75 mph freeway is extremely dangerous, and arguably worse than water ponding in the shoulder. One impact with that curb at 75-80 mph is asking for an accident. And that area is due to go up to 80 mph with this recent increase.

Could they not install drains in the shoulder area? Such as this?

[Plutonic Panda]

ODOT rolled out a new map tool to track construction projects: https://oklahoma.public.dotmapsapp.com/map

It is actually much better than the last two ways they had of tracking and staying up to date on current construction projects. They've pretty much stopped updating their page and major construction projects with a few exceptions. I chalked that up to the new director Tim Gatz not caring much as he has hit plate full running the OTA as well.

[bugo]

Looks like they're going  to replace the I-40 Arkansas River bridge at Webbers Falls. This is the bridge that collapsed after being hit by a barge in 2002. Instead of building a new bridge, they quickly repaired the existing bridge, and you can easily tell which spans were replaced. 

[The Ghostbuster]

Wikipedia has an article on the Interstate 40 bridge disaster here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-40_bridge_disaster. I have a book called The Roads that Built America: The Incredible Story of the U.S. Interstate System that has a reference to the bridge disaster (among others): https://www.amazon.com/Roads-That-Built-America-Incredible/dp/1402734689/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=the+roads+that+built+america&qid=1682550132&s=books&sprefix=the+roads+that+bu%2Cstripbooks%2C135&sr=1-1. The book describes the Interstate 40 bridge disaster as a "freak accident."

[BigOkie]

Wikipedia has an article on the Interstate 40 bridge disaster here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-40_bridge_disaster. I have a book called The Roads that Built America: The Incredible Story of the U.S. Interstate System that has a reference to the bridge disaster (among others): https://www.amazon.com/Roads-That-Built-America-Incredible/dp/1402734689/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=the+roads+that+built+america&qid=1682550132&s=books&sprefix=the+roads+that+bu%2Cstripbooks%2C135&sr=1-1. The book describes the Interstate 40 bridge disaster as a "freak accident."

I have this book as well; it's pretty fascinating how all this got started. One of my very first ever e-book purchases.

EDIT:  Sorry, the title sounded familiar but now I may have to get this book...the book I currently have is called "The Big Roads: The Untold Story of the Engineers, Visionaries, and Trailblazers Who Created the American Superhighways"  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004X7TM14/

[US 89]

No, the part of the HE Bailey that feels too narrow for the speed limit to me is the part where there's a hard curb immediately left of the yellow stripe, on a curve, within city limits, where there are commonly slow-moving trucks still getting up to speed.

Why did I not know this existed? That's honestly worse than the grass hump.

[Bobby5280]

That street curb can give a motorist cruising along in the left lane quite a scare the first time they see it. When I'm driving that direction on I-44 I'm often in the left lane at that location. The curb begins around 1600 feet past the US-81 on ramp to WB I-44. I'll often shift to the left to avoid slower traffic merging onto I-44. It can take a good bit of time and distance to be able to move over to the right lane.

IMHO, I think the OTA should have modest sized warning signs of some sort posted on top of the concrete Jersey barrier to alert motorists about that street curb. It's not enough to put yellow paint on the curb itself. There probably should be at least one or two warning signs on posts hundreds of feet in advance of the curb as well as a couple or so warning signs along the length of the curb. The OTA needs to do something to help motorists be more aware of that curb OR they need to come up with a better water drainage method for that location.

[Rothman]

That street curb can give a motorist cruising along in the left lane quite a scare the first time they see it. When I'm driving that direction on I-44 I'm often in the left lane at that location. The curb begins around 1600 feet past the US-81 on ramp to WB I-44. I'll often shift to the left to avoid slower traffic merging onto I-44. It can take a good bit of time and distance to be able to move over to the right lane.

IMHO, I think the OTA should have modest sized warning signs of some sort posted on top of the concrete Jersey barrier to alert motorists about that street curb. It's not enough to put yellow paint on the curb itself. There probably should be at least one or two warning signs on posts hundreds of feet in advance of the curb as well as a couple or so warning signs along the length of the curb. The OTA needs to do something to help motorists be more aware of that curb OR they need to come up with a better water drainage method for that location.

Perhaps they should look into how many people hit it first.

[rte66man]

That street curb can give a motorist cruising along in the left lane quite a scare the first time they see it. When I'm driving that direction on I-44 I'm often in the left lane at that location. The curb begins around 1600 feet past the US-81 on ramp to WB I-44. I'll often shift to the left to avoid slower traffic merging onto I-44. It can take a good bit of time and distance to be able to move over to the right lane.

IMHO, I think the OTA should have modest sized warning signs of some sort posted on top of the concrete Jersey barrier to alert motorists about that street curb. It's not enough to put yellow paint on the curb itself. There probably should be at least one or two warning signs on posts hundreds of feet in advance of the curb as well as a couple or so warning signs along the length of the curb. The OTA needs to do something to help motorists be more aware of that curb OR they need to come up with a better water drainage method for that location.

Or better yet, fix it like they did here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2752374,-97.6061433,3a,75y,26.99h,73.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9mthJsci3Zgp4HRaoUUgvA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0
It used to have a curb but it was taken out when this stretch was rebuilt a few years ago.

[sprjus4]

^ Exactly, tear it out and replace it with a proper drainage system with drains in the shoulder lane.

[Plutonic Panda]

Looks like Oklahoma is going to launch a tool to track your mileage to see how you'd pay with a mileage based tax instead of a fuel just as an experiment. Personally I don't think Oklahoma is the right place to do a mileage based tax just raise the gas taxes a bit.

https://ktul.com/news/local/new-study-explores-alternative-to-state-gas-tax

[Bobby5280]

As more electric vehicles are sold and hitting the roads the state has to use some method to make sure everyone is paying a fair share for highway maintenance and construction. As the article stated, EV owners have to pay something like an extra $100 when renewing their tags to make up for not paying gasoline taxes. It sounds like a flat fee regardless of how many miles someone drives an EV on fuel-tax funded highways.

In the long run, I think the fuel taxes will stop being collected at the gasoline stations and we'll probably just have RFID toll tag readers installed all over the damned place.

[Scott5114]

Honestly, I'd rather just the fuel tax shift to an electricity tax, so if I'm being an idiot and forget to turn the light off in my office when I go to bed, at least I'm paying for ODOT to buy themselves a nice bolt or something.

[Great Lakes Roads]

https://www.odot.org/contracts/2023/23081001/plans_advert/145_2308_STP-252F(088)PM_3515404/0000-3515404-FULLFILE.pdf

Found a sign replacement contract letting on August 10th for sections of SH 152/I-44/I-240 in Noble and Oklahoma counties...

Call Order:     145
Calendar Days:     270 Days
Contract ID:     230228
DBE Goal:     --
J/P No.:     35154(04)
Project No.:     STP-252F(088)PM
Counties:     NOBLE / OKLAHOMA
Contract 
Description:     TRAFFIC SIGNING
I-44/I-240/SH-152: AT MULTIPLE LOCATIONS IN DISTRICT IV.
PROJECT LENGTH = 0.00 MILES

[74/171FAN]

It looks like US 62 and OK 3 are being deemphasized/unsigned at the I-44/I-240 interchange.

[The Ghostbuster]

OK 3. OH 3 (and US 22) meets US 62 in Washington Court House, OH and splits from it in Columbus, OH.

[74/171FAN]

OK 3. OH 3 (and US 22) meets US 62 in Washington Court House, OH and splits from it in Columbus, OH.

Yeah that was an obvious typo.

[rte66man]

On tomorrow's ODOT Commission meeting agenda:

Highway Number Redesignation — Mr. Planteen
Districts IV and VIII — Delaware, Mayes, Rogers, Tulsa, Osage, Pawnee, Payne and Noble Counties

a) Remove SH-152 Designation from I-44 junction west to Kilpatrick Turnpike junction
b) Add I-240 Designation from I-44 junction west to Kilpatrick Turnpike junction
c) Add I-240 Follow Route Designation I-240/I-44 junction north to I-44/SH-152
d) Add I-344 Designation to the entirety of the Kilpatrick Turnpike
e) Add I-335 Designation to Kickapoo Turnpike

[Bobby5280]

This idea sounds a lot better than signing I-240 over both the Kilpatrick and Kickapoo turnpikes.

Wouldn't a I-344 designation make more sense for the Gilcrease Expressway (since that's already signed as OK-344)? I think the Kilpatrick should get a different I-x44 number, like an even-numbered designation such as "I-644" or "I-844". Or they could assign a different I-x40 number.

Normally I'd cry foul about the "I-335" odd numbered route idea for the Kickapoo Turnpike since both ends are at two Interstate routes. But I-335 in Kansas does the same thing already. So does I-355 in Chicagoland.

That I-335 designation for the Kickapoo Turnpike also clearly states the ultimate objective of the turnpike extending down to I-35 near Purcell. IMHO they also need to plan for extending the Kickapoo Turnpike North past I-44 and Luther up and over to I-35 near Guthrie. That could make something like an "I-835" designation more logical.

[okc1]

So OK-152, I-240, and I-344 all meet and end at the same place? I would hope 240 would cover the portion of the Kilpatrick south of I-40.

[Scott5114]

I'm guessing the first digits being 3s has more to do with the fact that all of the recently-assigned toll road numbers start with 3 than anything having to do with actual Interstate numbering rules.

As a result, OK-325's number becomes even more annoying. (Can we have OK-456, please?)

[The Ghostbuster]

I doubt OK 344 will get an Interstate designation, same with the Kickapoo Turnpike Extension. Has the OK 335 (or any designation) been approved for the KTE?

[Scott5114]

The body that approves all state highway designations in Oklahoma is the one that will be voting on these Interstate designations tomorrow.

[US 89]

In my mind, the first digit of a 3-digit interstate has less to do with how many of its ends are at interstates and more with its functional role. Clear spurs are odd, clear bypasses or beltways are even, and anything else can go either way. The Kickapoo isn't neatly in either category - sure, in its final form it will be more or less an OKC bypass, but it's not really a pure bypass since it doesn't come back to I-35. I'm not going to complain about that one. But the Kilpatrick is so obviously a beltway. I propose I-644 for that one...maybe ODOT could go with multiples of 3 for toll roads.

I assume they'd want to renumber SH-344 in Tulsa, not because Oklahoma has issues with number duplication (they don't) but because I can see things getting confusing with a Turnpike 344 in both of the state's major cities. SH-311 or 312 (playing off US 412) could be decent alternatives for that.

What I'm more confused about is that they are still extending I-240 west over an I-44 overlap and then over the SH-152 freeway. I get that it kind of makes sense to have one designation for the toll portion and another for the free, but two interstates ending at each other is dumb when there isn't even another interstate involved at the junction. I'm not sure that exists anywhere else in the system. Why not just use I-344 for the SH-152 freeway? That would make 344 an even better beltway since it would connect to 44 on both sides.