After looking around and seeing very little in terms of older pictures (i.e., before 1995 really) of BGS' and the sort from the Baltimore area, I've been curious to know if there are pictures that exist. I know the DC area has a good bit from the Virginia Highways Project (http://www.vahighways.com/495vintage/index.htm (http://www.vahighways.com/495vintage/index.htm)) but there seems to be no similar thing for the Baltimore area.
One thing I did find while looking for pictures was a very interesting article from the Baltimore Sun when the Beltway was first fully opened to traffic: due to time constraints, the State Roads Commission put temporary signs up along the Beltway until more permanent signage could be installed. Some older signs along already opened parts of the Beltway were black-on-white as well. In addition, there was a picture of a sign on I-695 at MD 3, now I-97: https://imgur.com/a/v732afA (https://imgur.com/a/v732afA)
The Baltimore Sun Darkroom is likely to have the sort of images you're interested in. You should also check out Scott Kozel's Roads to the Future website.
Not exactly what you're looking for, but Steve Alpert has plenty of old sign pics on his website, which you can see by accessing the links on the following page:
https://www.alpsroads.net/roads/md/
Quote from: TheOneKEA on January 10, 2021, 08:03:12 PM
The Baltimore Sun Darkroom is likely to have the sort of images you're interested in. You should also check out Scott Kozel's Roads to the Future website.
Thanks! The Roads to the Future website does have a good bit of older pics from what I've seen the past few years. My favorite for sure is the MD 695 sign approaching the Key Bridge. (http://www.roadstothefuture.com/Key_Bridge_NB.jpg) The Darkroom is a bit more of a hit or miss...they have a lot of good aerial views but not as much on the ground (at least that I could find, though I'll take any advice on searching through their archives because its very hard to navigate). I also know that some National Archives photos from the pre-Interstate era exist, but its very few and far between as it was part of a program that photographed advertisements if I remember.
Quote from: Henry on January 11, 2021, 10:55:54 AM
Not exactly what you're looking for, but Steve Alpert has plenty of old sign pics on his website, which you can see by accessing the links on the following page:
https://www.alpsroads.net/roads/md/
Thanks! That site is a really good one too. The I-95 pics on there remind me of when I was younger and the button copy signs up were up by I-695 still :D
Street view all the movements of this old interchange within Baltimore and see old signs still posted:
https://goo.gl/maps/eEzBYeB2vFATLMrA6
Also some older BGS signs exist with the former I-170
Plus there's always this ancient BGS - https://goo.gl/maps/JiGrELafzxoEPAnH9
I am not aware of an online repository specifically of old Maryland highway signs.
I remember back in November 1985 when the Fort McHenry Tunnel first opened, there was a BGS somewhere over I-95 north of I-695 (i.e., inside the Baltimore Beltway) listing distances to upcoming interchanges and one of them was I-83. I didn't know back then that I-83 had been planned to be extended through to I-95 on the far side of the tunnel, but I did know that I-83 did not in fact meet I-95, and I commented on it. That's why I remember the sign: My parents told me to shut up. I don't remember where that sign was and I've never seen a picture of it.
The other real peculiarity I remember from back then was that the BGSs on I-695 for I-95 into the city had blank Interstate shields–that is, standard blue shields with the red top and the word "Interstate," but no route number. I've never been able to find a picture of any of those. I always assumed that the reason the number "95" wasn't posted was to reduce the risk of motorist confusion whereby someone would see I-95 and assume it was the road north to New York only to wind up at a dead end because the tunnel wasn't open yet. (I vaguely recall a trip to the Baltimore aquarium in the early 1980s on which my mother insisted on taking the Baltimore—Washington Parkway because she knew I-95 in Baltmore wasn't finished, she wasn't sure where it ended, and she didn't trust the paper map we had to be up-to-date.)
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 11, 2021, 11:48:17 AM
I remember back in November 1985 when the Fort McHenry Tunnel first opened, there was a BGS somewhere over I-95 north of I-695 (i.e., inside the Baltimore Beltway) listing distances to upcoming interchanges and one of them was I-83. I didn't know back then that I-83 had been planned to be extended through to I-95 on the far side of the tunnel, but I did know that I-83 did not in fact meet I-95, and I commented on it. That's why I remember the sign: My parents told me to shut up. I don't remember where that sign was and I've never seen a picture of it.
The other real peculiarity I remember from back then was that the BGSs on I-695 for I-95 into the city had blank Interstate shields–that is, standard blue shields with the red top and the word "Interstate," but no route number. I've never been able to find a picture of any of those. I always assumed that the reason the number "95" wasn't posted was to reduce the risk of motorist confusion whereby someone would see I-95 and assume it was the road north to New York only to wind up at a dead end because the tunnel wasn't open yet. (I vaguely recall a trip to the Baltimore aquarium in the early 1980s on which my mother insisted on taking the Baltimore—Washington Parkway because she knew I-95 in Baltmore wasn't finished, she wasn't sure where it ended, and she didn't trust the paper map we had to be up-to-date.)
Wow! That's extremely fascinating...I had no idea about any of that. I wonder if I can talk more to my family as well and see if their memories may jog of some of this (I grew up about 2 minutes from I-95 and I-695, so we were on them all the time). The closest thing I could find are some BGS' in this YouTube video (https://youtu.be/XXr99_kBR8Q?t=1095) of an I-95 trip from Maine to Florida in 1991, sadly though the video only shows signs for Russell Street and I-395.
That being said, it also makes me wonder if mileage signs to I-70 were once posted along I-95 at any point...
Part of the difficulty with old pictures from that era, of course, is that they would have been taken using film cameras, and the chance of someone having the pictures (or, even better, the negatives) to scan now is probably fairly low. The ubiquity of digital photography and the ease of taking lots of pictures nowadays makes it easy to forget that it wasn't always that way. Nowadays, the question is, "Is there any reason not to take a picture of this?," whereas it used to be, "Is there any reason to take a picture of this?" (especially if you were in a moving vehicle from which you had a high chance of wasting film by blurring the photo, getting unwanted reflections, etc.).
Quote from: cb98 on January 11, 2021, 03:21:45 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 11, 2021, 11:48:17 AM
I remember back in November 1985 when the Fort McHenry Tunnel first opened, there was a BGS somewhere over I-95 north of I-695 (i.e., inside the Baltimore Beltway) listing distances to upcoming interchanges and one of them was I-83. I didn't know back then that I-83 had been planned to be extended through to I-95 on the far side of the tunnel, but I did know that I-83 did not in fact meet I-95, and I commented on it. That's why I remember the sign: My parents told me to shut up. I don't remember where that sign was and I've never seen a picture of it.
The other real peculiarity I remember from back then was that the BGSs on I-695 for I-95 into the city had blank Interstate shields–that is, standard blue shields with the red top and the word "Interstate," but no route number. I've never been able to find a picture of any of those. I always assumed that the reason the number "95" wasn't posted was to reduce the risk of motorist confusion whereby someone would see I-95 and assume it was the road north to New York only to wind up at a dead end because the tunnel wasn't open yet. (I vaguely recall a trip to the Baltimore aquarium in the early 1980s on which my mother insisted on taking the Baltimore—Washington Parkway because she knew I-95 in Baltmore wasn't finished, she wasn't sure where it ended, and she didn't trust the paper map we had to be up-to-date.)
Wow! That's extremely fascinating...I had no idea about any of that. I wonder if I can talk more to my family as well and see if their memories may jog of some of this (I grew up about 2 minutes from I-95 and I-695, so we were on them all the time). The closest thing I could find are some BGS' in this YouTube video (https://youtu.be/XXr99_kBR8Q?t=1095) of an I-95 trip from Maine to Florida in 1991, sadly though the video only shows signs for Russell Street and I-395.
That being said, it also makes me wonder if mileage signs to I-70 were once posted along I-95 at any point...
That video, while not showing much signage in Maryland, definitely struck gold for me as far as the Richmond-Petersburg Tpk goes. Thanks! I'm about to crop some screenshots from it.
I wish there were some signs from the JFK Mem Hwy in there too but I'll take what I can get lol.
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 11, 2021, 11:48:17 AM
I remember back in November 1985 when the Fort McHenry Tunnel first opened, there was a BGS somewhere over I-95 north of I-695 (i.e., inside the Baltimore Beltway) listing distances to upcoming interchanges and one of them was I-83. I didn't know back then that I-83 had been planned to be extended through to I-95 on the far side of the tunnel, but I did know that I-83 did not in fact meet I-95, and I commented on it. That's why I remember the sign: My parents told me to shut up. I don't remember where that sign was and I've never seen a picture of it.
I do not remember that, and I used to come that way fairly often to go to Orioles games at Memorial Stadium. Nor any mention of a junction with I-70 either (it would have been on I-95 N at the Baltimore City/Baltimore County border near Caton Avenue or slightly north of there).
One of the preferred routes to Memorial Stadium was I-95 N to I-395 N to Martin Luther King Boulevard N to N Howard Street N to E 28th Street E to Barclay Street N to the municipal parking lot at 33rd Street and Merryman Lane which was always free for night games and a short walk to the ballpark.
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 11, 2021, 11:48:17 AM
The other real peculiarity I remember from back then was that the BGSs on I-695 for I-95 into the city had blank Interstate shields–that is, standard blue shields with the red top and the word "Interstate," but no route number. I've never been able to find a picture of any of those. I always assumed that the reason the number "95" wasn't posted was to reduce the risk of motorist confusion whereby someone would see I-95 and assume it was the road north to New York only to wind up at a dead end because the tunnel wasn't open yet. (I vaguely recall a trip to the Baltimore aquarium in the early 1980s on which my mother insisted on taking the Baltimore—Washington Parkway because she knew I-95 in Baltmore wasn't finished, she wasn't sure where it ended, and she didn't trust the paper map we had to be up-to-date.)
Those I remember well. Those shields without a 95 were at all the movements from I-695 to head north onto I-95 (not completed before 1985 when the Fort McHenry Tunnel opened). These date back to the completion of the "Between the Beltways" part of I-95 between I-495 and I-695. There was plenty of Baltimore City buttoncopy on I-95 in the city too, but by 1990, MDTA had taken over full responsibility for I-95 and I-395 in Baltimore, from the city, and not long after that MDTA started replacing the buttoncopy signs.
An added twist - when the "Between the Beltways" segment was complete in 1971, I-895 (Baltimore Harbor Tunnel Thruway) was not yet constructed by MDTA between its original southern terminus at U.S. 1 and its current southern terminus at I-95 in Howard County (the only section of toll-maintained mainline in Howard now and then [short sections of the ramps connecting I-895 to U.S. 1 have been in Howard County since 1957 when what is now I-895 opened to traffic]). By about 1975, I-895 was extended south to I-95 (and at that point fully signed as I-895).
The routing for I-95 N (starting in 1971) was onto I-695 OL to I-895 N (Exit 8A now), through the Baltimore Harbor Tunnel and re-joining I-95 at the northern I-95/I-895 interchange.
I-95 S to I-895 S (present-day Exit 62) through the tunnel, then taking the sharp ramp onto I-695 Inner Loop (present-day Exit 3) to I-95 S at present-day Exit 11B.
Prior to the completion of the FSK Bridge, there were plenty of signs advising HAZMAT loads and overheight trucks to take I-695 "over the top" past Towson as an alternative to I-895. After the FSK and its Super-2 approach roads opened in 1977, the signs encouraged trucks to take the FSK (and allow MDTA to collect toll revenue from the trucks that were banned from I-895). It is still signed that way today.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 12, 2021, 11:57:08 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 11, 2021, 11:48:17 AM
I remember back in November 1985 when the Fort McHenry Tunnel first opened, there was a BGS somewhere over I-95 north of I-695 (i.e., inside the Baltimore Beltway) listing distances to upcoming interchanges and one of them was I-83. I didn't know back then that I-83 had been planned to be extended through to I-95 on the far side of the tunnel, but I did know that I-83 did not in fact meet I-95, and I commented on it. That's why I remember the sign: My parents told me to shut up. I don't remember where that sign was and I've never seen a picture of it.
I do not remember that, and I used to come that way fairly often to go to Orioles games at Memorial Stadium. Nor any mention of a junction with I-70 either (it would have been on I-95 N at the Baltimore City/Baltimore County border near Caton Avenue or slightly north of there).
....
I have very a vivid memory of seeing the I-83 shield on a distance sign over I-95 the night before Thanksgiving in 1985, saying something about the sign wrongly saying I-83, and my father bellowing at me to shut up.
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 13, 2021, 07:41:53 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 12, 2021, 11:57:08 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 11, 2021, 11:48:17 AM
I remember back in November 1985 when the Fort McHenry Tunnel first opened, there was a BGS somewhere over I-95 north of I-695 (i.e., inside the Baltimore Beltway) listing distances to upcoming interchanges and one of them was I-83. I didn't know back then that I-83 had been planned to be extended through to I-95 on the far side of the tunnel, but I did know that I-83 did not in fact meet I-95, and I commented on it. That's why I remember the sign: My parents told me to shut up. I don't remember where that sign was and I've never seen a picture of it.
I do not remember that, and I used to come that way fairly often to go to Orioles games at Memorial Stadium. Nor any mention of a junction with I-70 either (it would have been on I-95 N at the Baltimore City/Baltimore County border near Caton Avenue or slightly north of there).
....
I have very a vivid memory of seeing the I-83 shield on a distance sign over I-95 the night before Thanksgiving in 1985, saying something about the sign wrongly saying I-83, and my father bellowing at me to shut up.
Wonder if it might have been on the part of I-95 that only opened when the FMT was complete and open to traffic? I did not drive the FMT when it opened, and it might have been several months before I took a ride on what completed I-95 in Maryland (to this day, I prefer to use I-895 across Baltimore, for it has less traffic and has less in the way of "confused" drivers).
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 13, 2021, 09:33:31 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 13, 2021, 07:41:53 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 12, 2021, 11:57:08 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 11, 2021, 11:48:17 AM
I remember back in November 1985 when the Fort McHenry Tunnel first opened, there was a BGS somewhere over I-95 north of I-695 (i.e., inside the Baltimore Beltway) listing distances to upcoming interchanges and one of them was I-83. I didn't know back then that I-83 had been planned to be extended through to I-95 on the far side of the tunnel, but I did know that I-83 did not in fact meet I-95, and I commented on it. That's why I remember the sign: My parents told me to shut up. I don't remember where that sign was and I've never seen a picture of it.
I do not remember that, and I used to come that way fairly often to go to Orioles games at Memorial Stadium. Nor any mention of a junction with I-70 either (it would have been on I-95 N at the Baltimore City/Baltimore County border near Caton Avenue or slightly north of there).
....
I have very a vivid memory of seeing the I-83 shield on a distance sign over I-95 the night before Thanksgiving in 1985, saying something about the sign wrongly saying I-83, and my father bellowing at me to shut up.
Wonder if it might have been on the part of I-95 that only opened when the FMT was complete and open to traffic? I did not drive the FMT when it opened, and it might have been several months before I took a ride on what completed I-95 in Maryland (to this day, I prefer to use I-895 across Baltimore, for it has less traffic and has less in the way of "confused" drivers).
It may well have been. The tunnel opened the Saturday before Thanksgiving that year and I remember we had been looking forward to using it because back then the Harbor Tunnel had always been such a miserable experience (we often used the Francis Scott Key Bridge in the years prior to the Fort McHenry Tunnel opening). That was right around the last time we made a family trip to New York for Thanksgiving, too (other than driving up the day after Thanksgiving in 1991 to see my grandfather what turned out to be eight days before he died). My parents finally got so sick of the traffic that they said forget it. Our relatives came down to Virginia for Thanksgiving one time and they quickly understood why we had gotten fed up.
^ I do recall this distance sign as well, but many of the details are very fuzzy. I lived in the Annapolis area for most of the 1980s, but traveled frequently to the Lancaster, PA, area, and later Philadelphia area, via Baltimore. My recollection is that it was the bottom line of a distance sign, but the interstate shield was partially covered (presumably the numbers). Pretty sure it was on the northbound side. I don't recall whether the distance sign was north or south of the tunnel.
I remember when at Moravia Road SB on present I-895 where the pull through for the tunnel was on a single bar gantry over the exit ramps spelling out WASH RICH and arrows pointing left which was confusing at the time.
MD 2 was not signed on Ritchie Highway exit as it was signed on I-895 Spur (that was called the Glen Burnie Bypass then) along with the Bay Bridge and Annapolis and MD 3. Brooklyn was only signed at Ritchie Highway due to the spur connecting to MD 2 beyond Brooklyn.
Also some pull through signs had I-95 South like at MD 295 SB on I-895 and the loop ramp from I-895 to today's MD 295 was signed " Washington Expressway Parkway" and not use both cities in the name then. I asked my dad why Baltimore was omitted as a child and he informed me that because we are at Baltimore the road is really heading to Washington only so it makes sense to sign it that way.
These would be great to see if anyone collected them.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 13, 2021, 01:35:33 PM
I remember when at Moravia Road SB on present I-895 where the pull through for the tunnel was on a single bar gantry over the exit ramps spelling out WASH RICH and arrows pointing left which was confusing at the time.
I remember that too - the design of those signs was an abomination especially at night and especially for drivers not that familiar with (what is now) I-895. Might have been the worst signage in the entire state at the time, and things were made more confusing because this was the last "free" exit on southbound I-895.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 13, 2021, 01:35:33 PM
MD 2 was not signed on Ritchie Highway exit as it was signed on I-895 Spur (that was called the Glen Burnie Bypass then) along with the Bay Bridge and Annapolis and MD 3. Brooklyn was only signed at Ritchie Highway due to the spur connecting to MD 2 beyond Brooklyn.
MD-2 is
still not signed at Potee Street on I-895 southbound (present-day Exit 7). Instead MD-2 traffic is directed onto I-895B (not signed as such, signed as I-97 S and MD-2 S), present-day Exit 6, formerly known, yes, as the Glen Burnie Bypass, which delivers traffic to MD-2 south of I-695.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 13, 2021, 01:35:33 PM
Also some pull through signs had I-95 South like at MD 295 SB on I-895 and the loop ramp from I-895 to today's MD 295 was signed " Washington Expressway Parkway" and not use both cities in the name then. I asked my dad why Baltimore was omitted as a child and he informed me that because we are at Baltimore the road is really heading to Washington only so it makes sense to sign it that way.
I can recall signs that read "WASH EXPY," "WASH PKWY" and other things, including the "Washington Expwy/Pkwy" (I think that is what it read on I-895 southbound).
Quote from: roadman65 on January 13, 2021, 01:35:33 PM
These would be great to see if anyone collected them.
What I would love to see from the old days of the Baltimore Harbor Tunnel Thruway were the
very campy BRS (yes, big red signs) showing HAZMAT restrictions on I-895 - there was at least one at every entrance to I-895, save for the ramp from Moravia Road to I-895 N and the ramp from Childs Street to I-895 S (these did not send traffic to the tunnel).
These had an image at the top of a propane/cng tank with thick arrows pointing toward it and in big letters below,
PROHIBITED.
Reading these posts for sure has been the highlight of my week. Never knew this much about the signage in the Baltimore area apart from what ancient relics still remain in the city and what I've remembered of the past 15-20 years or so. Thanks for sharing :)
I do remember seeing a YouTube video that was over an hour long about the opening of the FMT, I just wonder if they filmed anything that wasn't in the tunnel or directly outside of it. I never watched the full thing however so maybe I need to dig for that once again. Well, apparently it was 4 separate videos, though I went through them and not much could be seen. In the very beginning of the first video, the overhead can be partially seen for Exit 8 on the Harbor Tunnel's southbound side, but all the camera shot was "CURTIS BAY (https://youtu.be/5R504FolbE0?t=50)". On the last video as well, there's a segway into a news bit about car insurance rates increasing but some interstate was shown (https://youtu.be/jjmAS3H4xZk?t=65), though I can't immediately tell where it is.
Found another video that leaves me more confused than anything. From 1959, it makes mention of the brand new Harbor Tunnel Thruway, except in the shot of the sign they showed, it also has a New Jersey Turnpike shield in the background... (https://youtu.be/YrGHc6B4m_M?t=62)
Quote from: cb98 on January 13, 2021, 09:37:00 PM
Found another video that leaves me more confused than anything. From 1959, it makes mention of the brand new Harbor Tunnel Thruway, except in the shot of the sign they showed, it also has a New Jersey Turnpike shield in the background... (https://youtu.be/YrGHc6B4m_M?t=62)
I can only assume it's because at the time the NJTP (via US 40 and the Del Mem Br) was the next limited access highway heading northeast towards NYC. I'm trying to figure out what that spade above it said.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210114/8701fa666c4c27472806e28310fc7895.jpg)
moto g(7) optimo (XT1952DL)
Quote from: cb98 on January 13, 2021, 08:40:50 PM
Reading these posts for sure has been the highlight of my week. Never knew this much about the signage in the Baltimore area apart from what ancient relics still remain in the city and what I've remembered of the past 15-20 years or so. Thanks for sharing :)
I do remember seeing a YouTube video that was over an hour long about the opening of the FMT, I just wonder if they filmed anything that wasn't in the tunnel or directly outside of it. I never watched the full thing however so maybe I need to dig for that once again. Well, apparently it was 4 separate videos, though I went through them and not much could be seen. In the very beginning of the first video, the overhead can be partially seen for Exit 8 on the Harbor Tunnel's southbound side, but all the camera shot was "CURTIS BAY (https://youtu.be/5R504FolbE0?t=50)". On the last video as well, there's a segway into a news bit about car insurance rates increasing but some interstate was shown (https://youtu.be/jjmAS3H4xZk?t=65), though I can't immediately tell where it is.
I watched those 4 videos tonight, wondered where that interstate was, but then got sidetracked by a Ma Bell video about how to use dial phones. However, I believe that is SB I-83 before Cold Spring with Television Hill in the background.
Quote from: plain on January 13, 2021, 10:08:40 PM
I can only assume it's because at the time the NJTP (via US 40 and the Del Mem Br) was the next limited access highway heading northeast towards NYC. I'm trying to figure out what that spade above it said.
My guess would be Delaware Memorial Bridge
Quote from: Mapmikey on January 14, 2021, 06:11:51 AM
Quote from: plain on January 13, 2021, 10:08:40 PM
I can only assume it's because at the time the NJTP (via US 40 and the Del Mem Br) was the next limited access highway heading northeast towards NYC. I'm trying to figure out what that spade above it said.
My guess would be Delaware Memorial Bridge
Looks like that could be it and it makes sense.
Quote from: plain on January 13, 2021, 10:08:40 PM
Quote from: cb98 on January 13, 2021, 09:37:00 PM
Found another video that leaves me more confused than anything. From 1959, it makes mention of the brand new Harbor Tunnel Thruway, except in the shot of the sign they showed, it also has a New Jersey Turnpike shield in the background... (https://youtu.be/YrGHc6B4m_M?t=62)
I can only assume it's because at the time the NJTP (via US 40 and the Del Mem Br) was the next limited access highway heading northeast towards NYC. I'm trying to figure out what that spade above it said.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210114/8701fa666c4c27472806e28310fc7895.jpg)
moto g(7) optimo (XT1952DL) [/size
I believe this to be northbound Baltimore-Washington Expressway (present-day MD-295)
at the exit to northbound Baltimore Harbor Tunnel Thruway (present-day I-895). For
many years, there was a NJTP trailblazer a few hundred feet south of here, prior to the
beginning of the ramp from MD-295 to I-895. Prior to 1985, there was also a
TO North I-95 assembly near here, in addition to the BRS describing HAZMAT
restrictions.
Yes, I think the small shield is for the Delaware Memorial Bridge.
Quote from: plain on January 14, 2021, 09:05:59 AM
Quote from: Mapmikey on January 14, 2021, 06:11:51 AM
Quote from: plain on January 13, 2021, 10:08:40 PM
I can only assume it's because at the time the NJTP (via US 40 and the Del Mem Br) was the next limited access highway heading northeast towards NYC. I'm trying to figure out what that spade above it said.
My guess would be Delaware Memorial Bridge
Looks like that could be it and it makes sense.
Definitely a Delaware Memorial Bridge spade. There were a few of these posted in Wilmington, with one still on SR 48/2nd Street in 2007:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/mid-atlantic/de-048-del-mem-br.jpg) (http://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/mid-atlantic/de-048-del-mem-br.jpg)
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 14, 2021, 09:15:20 AM
Quote from: plain on January 13, 2021, 10:08:40 PM
Quote from: cb98 on January 13, 2021, 09:37:00 PM
Found another video that leaves me more confused than anything. From 1959, it makes mention of the brand new Harbor Tunnel Thruway, except in the shot of the sign they showed, it also has a New Jersey Turnpike shield in the background... (https://youtu.be/YrGHc6B4m_M?t=62)
I can only assume it's because at the time the NJTP (via US 40 and the Del Mem Br) was the next limited access highway heading northeast towards NYC. I'm trying to figure out what that spade above it said.
I believe this to be northbound Baltimore-Washington Expressway (present-day MD-295)
at the exit to northbound Baltimore Harbor Tunnel Thruway (present-day I-895). For
many years, there was a NJTP trailblazer a few hundred feet south of here, prior to the
beginning of the ramp from MD-295 to I-895. Prior to 1985, there was also a
TO North I-95 assembly near here, in addition to the BRS describing HAZMAT
restrictions.
Yes, I think the small shield is for the Delaware Memorial Bridge.
That's really fascinating. Would this have been the furthest south a trailblazer for the Delaware Memorial Bridge and/or NJT would've been posted? Also, it almost certainly is the northbound B&W Parkway ramp to what is now northbound I-895. (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2313452,-76.6496032,3a,90y,15.86h,90.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szOTiC0itif4ecDPzLUlByA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Quote from: cb98 on January 14, 2021, 11:51:24 AM
Also, it almost certainly is the northbound B&W Parkway ramp to what is now northbound I-895. (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2313452,-76.6496032,3a,90y,15.86h,90.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szOTiC0itif4ecDPzLUlByA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Not correct. What is
now the state-maintained part of the Baltimore-Washington Parkway (north of MD-175 and signed as MD-295) was known as the Baltimore-Washington
Expressway when this image was taken.
South of MD-175, the road has always been owned, maintained and operated by the National Park Service and signed as the Baltimore-Washington Parkway (no route number signed even though MDOT internal documents show MD-295).
It's pretty wild how a route (and a bridge) can be posted far away from that actual facility. The ones I'm most familiar with is a TO Atlantic City Expwy posting on the NJTP NB at US 40 (glad that one is gone now) and the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel being posted on US 58 EB west of I-95 (though the last time I drove US 58 I forgot to look to see if the sign was still there).
EDIT: Also, TO I-40 posted on US 220 SB in Martinsville, VA (still there as of 2019)
Quote from: plain on January 14, 2021, 12:23:47 PM
It's pretty wild how a route (and a bridge) can be posted far away from that actual facility. The ones I'm most familiar with is a TO Atlantic City Expwy posting on the NJTP NB at US 40 (glad that one is gone now) and the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel being posted on US 58 EB west of I-95 (though the last time I drove US 58 I forgot to look to see if the sign was still there).
There were New Jersey Turnpike trailblazers on U.S. 301 northbound/U.S. 50 eastbound prior to the "split" at Queenstown. There was also one on U.S. 50 westbound approaching MD-213 also in Queenstown and one on northbound MD-213 approaching U.S. 301.
Quote from: plain on January 14, 2021, 12:23:47 PM
It's pretty wild how a route (and a bridge) can be posted far away from that actual facility. The ones I'm most familiar with is a TO Atlantic City Expwy posting on the NJTP NB at US 40 (glad that one is gone now) and the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel being posted on US 58 EB west of I-95 (though the last time I drove US 58 I forgot to look to see if the sign was still there).
The Bridge-Tunnel has long been posted on I-295 in Delaware. The current sign is far bigger than the trailblazer-type sign I remember seeing as a kid (I do not use that road very often anymore): https://goo.gl/maps/QqG2KMDt9mztiXfc8
I'm pretty sure I recall there being a trailblazer somewhere near the southern end of the New Jersey Turnpike as well, but I don't recall where.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 14, 2021, 12:18:09 PM
Quote from: cb98 on January 14, 2021, 11:51:24 AM
Also, it almost certainly is the northbound B&W Parkway ramp to what is now northbound I-895. (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2313452,-76.6496032,3a,90y,15.86h,90.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szOTiC0itif4ecDPzLUlByA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Not correct. What is now the state-maintained part of the Baltimore-Washington Parkway (north of MD-175 and signed as MD-295) was known as the Baltimore-Washington Expressway when this image was taken.
South of MD-175, the road has always been owned, maintained and operated by the National Park Service and signed as the Baltimore-Washington Parkway (no route number signed even though MDOT internal documents show MD-295).
I don't believe he was disagreeing with the name you used; rather, I think he was referring to where the spot is in terms of today's naming.
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 14, 2021, 12:31:09 PM
Quote from: plain on January 14, 2021, 12:23:47 PM
It's pretty wild how a route (and a bridge) can be posted far away from that actual facility. The ones I'm most familiar with is a TO Atlantic City Expwy posting on the NJTP NB at US 40 (glad that one is gone now) and the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel being posted on US 58 EB west of I-95 (though the last time I drove US 58 I forgot to look to see if the sign was still there).
The Bridge-Tunnel has long been posted on I-295 in Delaware. The current sign is far bigger than the trailblazer-type sign I remember seeing as a kid (I do not use that road very often anymore): https://goo.gl/maps/QqG2KMDt9mztiXfc8
I'm pretty sure I recall there being a trailblazer somewhere near the southern end of the New Jersey Turnpike as well, but I don't recall where.
It was around the old southbound Exit 1 mainline toll barrier on the NJ-700 part of the Turnpike. I do not recall if it was before or after the barrier.
There was also a Delaware Turnpike logo on a BGS panel on the southbound Turnpike after the Exit 1 barrier. Given how much signage the New Jersey Turnpike has in Delaware, it seems that the NJTA could return the favor with one sign for the Delaware Turnpike south of the Exit 1 barrier (even though I disagree with Delaware only collecting tolls from traffic crossing the state line).
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 14, 2021, 12:31:09 PM
Quote from: plain on January 14, 2021, 12:23:47 PM
It's pretty wild how a route (and a bridge) can be posted far away from that actual facility. The ones I'm most familiar with is a TO Atlantic City Expwy posting on the NJTP NB at US 40 (glad that one is gone now) and the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel being posted on US 58 EB west of I-95 (though the last time I drove US 58 I forgot to look to see if the sign was still there).
The Bridge-Tunnel has long been posted on I-295 in Delaware. The current sign is far bigger than the trailblazer-type sign I remember seeing as a kid (I do not use that road very often anymore): https://goo.gl/maps/QqG2KMDt9mztiXfc8
I'm pretty sure I recall there being a trailblazer somewhere near the southern end of the New Jersey Turnpike as well, but I don't recall where.
Indeed, I forgot about this (the big one) that quick (plus I just drove past this
3 months ago smdh)
I've been trying to find old pics of these signs of the BW Pkwy on the Baltimore maintained section of it. I wonder when these and the ones for Waterview Ave and Westport were installed?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48076278692_93cca2705a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gfkuGL)
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 14, 2021, 12:31:09 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 14, 2021, 12:18:09 PM
Quote from: cb98 on January 14, 2021, 11:51:24 AM
Also, it almost certainly is the northbound B&W Parkway ramp to what is now northbound I-895. (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2313452,-76.6496032,3a,90y,15.86h,90.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szOTiC0itif4ecDPzLUlByA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Not correct. What is now the state-maintained part of the Baltimore-Washington Parkway (north of MD-175 and signed as MD-295) was known as the Baltimore-Washington Expressway when this image was taken.
South of MD-175, the road has always been owned, maintained and operated by the National Park Service and signed as the Baltimore-Washington Parkway (no route number signed even though MDOT internal documents show MD-295).
I don't believe he was disagreeing with the name you used; rather, I think he was referring to where the spot is in terms of today's naming.
Sorry about the confusion! I wasn't disagreeing, I've just always called it the B&W Parkway :biggrin:
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on January 14, 2021, 12:56:39 PM
I've been trying to find old pics of these signs of the BW Pkwy on the Baltimore maintained section of it. I wonder when these and the ones for Waterview Ave and Westport were installed?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48076278692_93cca2705a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gfkuGL)
I feel like of all things, the best chance of pictures coming up would be on the this stretch of the B&W Parkway and the Harbor Tunnel. They've been there forever it seems!
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 14, 2021, 12:38:50 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 14, 2021, 12:31:09 PM
Quote from: plain on January 14, 2021, 12:23:47 PM
It's pretty wild how a route (and a bridge) can be posted far away from that actual facility. The ones I'm most familiar with is a TO Atlantic City Expwy posting on the NJTP NB at US 40 (glad that one is gone now) and the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel being posted on US 58 EB west of I-95 (though the last time I drove US 58 I forgot to look to see if the sign was still there).
The Bridge-Tunnel has long been posted on I-295 in Delaware. The current sign is far bigger than the trailblazer-type sign I remember seeing as a kid (I do not use that road very often anymore): https://goo.gl/maps/QqG2KMDt9mztiXfc8
I'm pretty sure I recall there being a trailblazer somewhere near the southern end of the New Jersey Turnpike as well, but I don't recall where.
It was around the old southbound Exit 1 mainline toll barrier on the NJ-700 part of the Turnpike. I do not recall if it was before or after the barrier.
There was also a Delaware Turnpike logo on a BGS panel on the southbound Turnpike after the Exit 1 barrier. Given how much signage the New Jersey Turnpike has in Delaware, it seems that the NJTA could return the favor with one sign for the Delaware Turnpike south of the Exit 1 barrier (even though I disagree with Delaware only collecting tolls from traffic crossing the state line).
I haven't travelled through that area southbound by car in several years–most recent time I passed through by car (as opposed to on Amtrak) was northbound up the new US-301, then DE-1 to I-95 to I-495 en route to the Northeast Extension in June 2019–but I see from AARoads photos that even Delaware appears to have removed the Delaware Turnpike logo, and the misleading "TOLL ROAD" reference, from the pull-thru signs as I-295 approaches its end at I-95.
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 14, 2021, 01:30:03 PM
I haven't travelled through that area southbound by car in several years–most recent time I passed through by car (as opposed to on Amtrak) was northbound up the new US-301, then DE-1 to I-95 to I-495 en route to the Northeast Extension in June 2019–but I see from AARoads photos that even Delaware appears to have removed the Delaware Turnpike logo, and the misleading "TOLL ROAD" reference, from the pull-thru signs as I-295 approaches its end at I-95.
The only place I have seen a Delaware Turnpike logo recently was at the service plaza on the Turnpike, around the toll booth that was there at least for a while.
Would be interesting to see a picture of a I-70N sign if there is one out there. Vahighways.com has a couple of I-70S pics.
Quote from: SkyPesos on January 14, 2021, 02:01:13 PM
Would be interesting to see a picture of a I-70N sign if there is one out there. Vahighways.com has a couple of I-70S pics.
There were I-70N signs on U.S. 40 (Edmondson Avenue) westbound at Cooks Lane in Baltimore City not that long ago (in 2014 or 2015), but those are gone now.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 14, 2021, 02:14:12 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on January 14, 2021, 02:01:13 PM
Would be interesting to see a picture of a I-70N sign if there is one out there. Vahighways.com has a couple of I-70S pics.
There were I-70N signs on U.S. 40 at Cooks Lane in Baltimore City, but those are gone now.
(https://www.alpsroads.net/roads/md/us_40/70n.jpg)
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 14, 2021, 02:16:38 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 14, 2021, 02:14:12 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on January 14, 2021, 02:01:13 PM
Would be interesting to see a picture of a I-70N sign if there is one out there. Vahighways.com has a couple of I-70S pics.
There were I-70N signs on U.S. 40 at Cooks Lane in Baltimore City, but those are gone now.
(https://www.alpsroads.net/roads/md/us_40/70n.jpg)
That would be the I-70N shield I had in mind. Thank you.
Quote from: cb98 on January 14, 2021, 01:13:41 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 14, 2021, 12:31:09 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 14, 2021, 12:18:09 PM
Quote from: cb98 on January 14, 2021, 11:51:24 AM
Also, it almost certainly is the northbound B&W Parkway ramp to what is now northbound I-895. (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2313452,-76.6496032,3a,90y,15.86h,90.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szOTiC0itif4ecDPzLUlByA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Not correct. What is now the state-maintained part of the Baltimore-Washington Parkway (north of MD-175 and signed as MD-295) was known as the Baltimore-Washington Expressway when this image was taken.
South of MD-175, the road has always been owned, maintained and operated by the National Park Service and signed as the Baltimore-Washington Parkway (no route number signed even though MDOT internal documents show MD-295).
I don't believe he was disagreeing with the name you used; rather, I think he was referring to where the spot is in terms of today's naming.
Sorry about the confusion! I wasn't disagreeing, I've just always called it the B&W Parkway :biggrin:
I've heard one or two B'more traffic reporters refer to Baltimore-Annapolis Boulevard (part of MD 648) as "B&A Boulevard", perhaps channeling this long gone interurban...
https://www.annapolisrailroadhistory.com/baltimore-annapolis-railroad-overview
ixnay
Quote from: ixnay on January 16, 2021, 08:42:06 PM
Quote from: cb98 on January 14, 2021, 01:13:41 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 14, 2021, 12:31:09 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 14, 2021, 12:18:09 PM
Quote from: cb98 on January 14, 2021, 11:51:24 AM
Also, it almost certainly is the northbound B&W Parkway ramp to what is now northbound I-895. (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2313452,-76.6496032,3a,90y,15.86h,90.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szOTiC0itif4ecDPzLUlByA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Not correct. What is now the state-maintained part of the Baltimore-Washington Parkway (north of MD-175 and signed as MD-295) was known as the Baltimore-Washington Expressway when this image was taken.
South of MD-175, the road has always been owned, maintained and operated by the National Park Service and signed as the Baltimore-Washington Parkway (no route number signed even though MDOT internal documents show MD-295).
I don't believe he was disagreeing with the name you used; rather, I think he was referring to where the spot is in terms of today's naming.
Sorry about the confusion! I wasn't disagreeing, I've just always called it the B&W Parkway :biggrin:
I've heard one or two B'more traffic reporters refer to Baltimore-Annapolis Boulevard (part of MD 648) as "B&A Boulevard", perhaps channeling this long gone interurban...
https://www.annapolisrailroadhistory.com/baltimore-annapolis-railroad-overview
ixnay
B&A Boulevard (or just B&A sometimes, especially if talking about a place on the road) is very much my go-to name for MD 648 in Anne Arundel County! Still is the preferred route to Glen Burnie for my parents and I. Didn't realize the possible railroad connection to the name too, that's awesome :)
Quote from: SkyPesos on January 14, 2021, 02:01:13 PM
Would be interesting to see a picture of a I-70N sign if there is one out there. Vahighways.com has a couple of I-70S pics.
Replaced after 2012 but this overhead on Ingleside Avenue originally displayed I-70N. They simply removed the N from the 3-digit width shield for I-70.
(https://www.aaroads.com/md/070/ingleside-av-e-at-i-070-1.jpg)
Quote from: cb98 on January 17, 2021, 01:26:15 AM
Quote from: ixnay on January 16, 2021, 08:42:06 PM
Quote from: cb98 on January 14, 2021, 01:13:41 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 14, 2021, 12:31:09 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 14, 2021, 12:18:09 PM
Quote from: cb98 on January 14, 2021, 11:51:24 AM
Also, it almost certainly is the northbound B&W Parkway ramp to what is now northbound I-895. (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2313452,-76.6496032,3a,90y,15.86h,90.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szOTiC0itif4ecDPzLUlByA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Not correct. What is now the state-maintained part of the Baltimore-Washington Parkway (north of MD-175 and signed as MD-295) was known as the Baltimore-Washington Expressway when this image was taken.
South of MD-175, the road has always been owned, maintained and operated by the National Park Service and signed as the Baltimore-Washington Parkway (no route number signed even though MDOT internal documents show MD-295).
I don't believe he was disagreeing with the name you used; rather, I think he was referring to where the spot is in terms of today's naming.
Sorry about the confusion! I wasn't disagreeing, I've just always called it the B&W Parkway :biggrin:
I've heard one or two B'more traffic reporters refer to Baltimore-Annapolis Boulevard (part of MD 648) as "B&A Boulevard", perhaps channeling this long gone interurban...
https://www.annapolisrailroadhistory.com/baltimore-annapolis-railroad-overview
ixnay
B&A Boulevard (or just B&A sometimes, especially if talking about a place on the road) is very much my go-to name for MD 648 in Anne Arundel County! Still is the preferred route to Glen Burnie for my parents and I. Didn't realize the possible railroad connection to the name too, that's awesome :)
When I was growing up in Delaware Co., PA in the '70s, my mom and I would sometimes visit her aunt/my great aunt in Riviera Beach. We would go by way of the Bay Bridge for some reason - I guess to avoid traffic on 95. Anyway we would pick up MD 648 from MD 2 in Severna Park for the final run into Riviera Beach, and in those days MD 648 was signed (street name wise) Old Annapolis Road. I have no idea when it became B&A Blvd.
And closer to the topic, yes I do remember seeing that twin-shield-on-white "I-70N/695" sign at Cooks Lane and US 40 a couple of times in the '90s when I was in Baltimore City on business. Looks quite like a Baltimore Public Works (or whatever the city govt. calls that dept.) sign.
ixnay
ixnay
Quote from: ixnay on January 17, 2021, 01:11:16 PM
Quote from: cb98 on January 17, 2021, 01:26:15 AM
Quote from: ixnay on January 16, 2021, 08:42:06 PM
I've heard one or two B'more traffic reporters refer to Baltimore-Annapolis Boulevard (part of MD 648) as "B&A Boulevard", perhaps channeling this long gone interurban...
https://www.annapolisrailroadhistory.com/baltimore-annapolis-railroad-overview
ixnay
B&A Boulevard (or just B&A sometimes, especially if talking about a place on the road) is very much my go-to name for MD 648 in Anne Arundel County! Still is the preferred route to Glen Burnie for my parents and I. Didn't realize the possible railroad connection to the name too, that's awesome :)
When I was growing up in Delaware Co., PA in the '70s, my mom and I would sometimes visit her aunt/my great aunt in Riviera Beach. We would go by way of the Bay Bridge for some reason - I guess to avoid traffic on 95. Anyway we would pick up MD 648 from MD 2 in Severna Park for the final run into Riviera Beach, and in those days MD 648 was signed (street name wise) Old Annapolis Road. I have no idea when it became B&A Blvd.
And closer to the topic, yes I do remember seeing that twin-shield-on-white "I-70N/695" sign at Cooks Lane and US 40 a couple of times in the '90s when I was in Baltimore City on business. Looks quite like a Baltimore Public Works (or whatever the city govt. calls that dept.) sign.
ixnay
ixnay
On the Baltimore Beltway, one mileage sign on the outer loop still has MD 648 by that name (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2285006,-76.6644395,3a,34.2y,151h,98.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sl3Kk4NCZYPDKV3V-pEflIQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192), though I've always known it as B&A Blvd.
I remember the old tube lighting the Harbor Tunnel Thruway used in the 1970s as well as the green mono tube mastarms for overhead signs on it as well.
I think green painted overhead mono tube gantries were the norm in all of Maryland at one time.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 19, 2021, 09:41:16 PM
I remember the old tube lighting the Harbor Tunnel Thruway used in the 1970s as well as the green mono tube mastarms for overhead signs on it as well.
I think green painted overhead mono tube gantries were the norm in all of Maryland at one time.
Most of those were pre-Interstate (I do not recall ever seeing one on I-495 or I-695). There were some on what is now I-270, but I think they dated back to when the road was built and opened to traffic as U.S. 240.
There were also some on U.S. 50/U.S. 301 in Annapolis, another pre-Interstate freeway.