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VA: Bill allowing 70 MPH passes GA, goes to Gov for signature

Started by froggie, February 17, 2010, 07:29:24 AM

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froggie

These are the raw links from the General Assembly's website, showing both the bill text and the bill tracking.

The bill passed the Senate yesterday, and now will go to Governor McDonnell for his signature.

And it's not just the Interstates that are allowed to go to 70 MPH.  Non-Interstate freeways can also go to 70, as can the barrier-separated HOV lanes on both I-64 in Norfolk and I-95/395 in Northern Virginia.  Of course, per state law, VDOT must do a traffic engineering study before any speed limit increase can take effect.

I forsee this mainly being done in the rural areas, especially the lighter-traveled sections of I-64.  Except maybe the I-64 HOV lanes, I don't see any urban area speed limit changes as a result of this, nor do I expect the speed limit to change on I-81, I-64 east of Richmond, or I-95 north of Richmond due to the high accident rates along those routes.


Chris

Very good. One of my pet peeves are those annoying and not credible speed limits of 65 mph outside urban areas. I'd say 70 mph is the first step, 75 would be better. Hopefully, other states in the northeast will follow.

froggie

Doubtful.  Most of the Northeast state freeways have heavy traffic, high accident rates, and subpar geometry.  Several of them used design speeds less than the standard 70 MPH.  Given the lack of wide-openness east of the Appalachians (save for I-95 in northern Maine), I don't see 75 being considered, let alone approved...

Chris

Still, if it is possible in Europe, I don't see why it isn't possible in eastern U.S. Germany often allows 120 km/h (75 mph) in urban areas, and 75 mph speed limits are also common in mountainous areas in Euroland. The Netherlands has numerous 75 mph limits on congested sections (70,000 - 90,000 AADT on 4 lanes).

Only urban areas with visible housing in short distance of the freeway have a 100 km/h (60 mph) limit, and sometimes 80 km/h (50 mph). Switzerland, on the other hand, has urban speed limits as low as 60 km/h (40 mph) on several freeways. But you need very strict and continuous traffic enforcement to enforce a speed limit lower than 60 mph on freeways.

Truvelo

Unfortunately the opposite is happening here in the UK. 70mph is the default for a divided highway without streetlighting or with derestriction signs where lighting is present but more and more 50mph sections are appearing as el cheapo quick fixes to rush hour congestion. These 24/7 speed limits address a problem that occurs for 6 hours a day Mon-Fri. At other times these lower limits are a hindrance to free flowing traffic.

For example, this shows speed limit cuts for one county. On the left is a list of options, click on Speed Limit Review and check all the boxes. The map will soon fill up with roads where the speed limit will be cut :banghead:
Speed limits limit life

froggie

Chris:  traffic congestion is only one factor.  Another thing to consider is that at least one Western European country (and likely more) engineers their freeways to a higher design speed than the U.S, especially in the rural areas.  Some years ago, a German E-mailed me regarding a comparison between U.S. Interstate and German Autobahn design specifications.  While the U.S. tops out in most categories, Germany utilizes a higher design speed (he quoted 160kph/100MPH in the rural areas).

Chris

Speed limits can easily be higher than design speeds in rural areas. Inside urban areas; not so much, but it's possible to have a 55 mph design speed and a speed limit of 65. Design speeds of 70 to 80 mph can generally have blank speed limits (like in Germany).

J N Winkler

Quote from: Chris on February 17, 2010, 11:34:47 AM
Speed limits can easily be higher than design speeds in rural areas. Inside urban areas; not so much, but it's possible to have a 55 mph design speed and a speed limit of 65. Design speeds of 70 to 80 mph can generally have blank speed limits (like in Germany).

We already have speed limits which are higher than design speeds--we have no Interstates built to a design speed higher than 70 MPH but we have considerable mileage with a 75 MPH speed limit and some with an 80 MPH speed limit.  There is also not a whole lot of "slack" in the designs of some freeways receiving speed limits above 70 MPH.  On the whole, I don't think this is a trend that should be encouraged.

Froggie is right.  Bauanweisung Nr. 3 (1933) had a headline design speed of 160 km/h, as did the Trassierungsgrundsätze of 1942.  Plus the Germans, and Europeans in general, do something we Americans don't do.  For a given curve radius at a given design speed, the side friction demand is always a single value.  In the US it can be multiple values because we allow the use of different values for maximum superelevation according to local climate.  This means it is hard to be sure that 70 MPH in Montana, for example, means the same as 70 MPH in Kansas.  Obviously this impairs design consistency, but there has so far been no appetite to change the Green Book so that this is no longer the case.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

froggie

It should also be noted that those 75 and 80 MPH speed limits are in the western/Plains states where the Interstates are wide open and traffic is lighter than those east of the Mississippi.

vdeane

You can still support them east of the Mississippi.  I could easily see these speed limits working in NY, if only the state would allow them:
-I-90 over the entire ticket system: 75 mph
-I-390 south of Rush: 75 mph
-I-81 north of Fort Drum: 75 mph

For anything I haven't already mentioned:
-All urban freeways outside of NYC and some downtown areas: 60 mph
-All suburban freeways: 65 mph
-All rural freeways: 70 mph

And this is just the roads I'm on regularly on.  I would also support 65 mph for NY 12 north of Alexandria Bay and 60 mph for US 11 north of Fort Drum.  I'm sure there are many other areas that could be increased.  In may cases these proposed speed limits are lower than the speed people travel at anyways.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

mightyace

I would say in PA that you could do 75 mph on the following:

I-70 (free sections): I don't think I'd do any of it. The part from the WV line to New Stanton is below standards and the section from Breezewood to Maryland may be too hilly.
I-76 (free section, aka Sure-kill Expressway):  :rofl:
I-78: possibly the section west of the NE Extension of the Turnpike (I-476)
I-79: I don't know enough about this highway to comment
I-80: all of it except for the cramped alignment near Stroudsburg
I-81: the sections outside of Harrisburg and Scranton/Wilkes-Barre
I-83: as much of it is still similar to how it was as US 111, I'd say none of it
I-84: all of it
I-90: all of it except around Erie
I-95: none of it (all urban)
I-99 (current): all of it except possibly around Altoona and State College
PA Turnpike mainline (I-70, 76, 276, Future 95): the sections outside of Pittsburgh, Harrisburg, and Philadelphia.
PA Turnpike Northeast Extension (I-476): only sections that have been rebuilt to modern standards

But, given how long it took Pennsylvania to legalize 65 mph.  I doubt that it will ever change.
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Revive 755

^ I think most PA drivers already are going 75 on most of those, especially on the Turnpike and around Harrisburg in the off hours.

rickmastfan67

Quote from: mightyace on February 17, 2010, 09:17:25 PM
I would say in PA that you could do 75 mph on the following:

I-79: I don't know enough about this highway to comment
PA Turnpike mainline (I-70, 76, 276, Future 95): the sections outside of Pittsburgh, Harrisburg, and Philadelphia.

I-79 in Butler County was at 70mph for a little while.  I clearly remember seeing a few 70 signs South of the PA-68 interchange in the late '90's for a little while before they were changed to 65mph.  Too bad I didn't have a camera back then of my own to get any pictures.

Anyways, I could see I-79 being 75mph from Exit #78 (PA-228) up till I-90.  And South from I-70 to the WV State Line (except for going NB once you pass Exit #33 where you need to get people slowed down for the loop onto I-70).

As for the PA Turnpike (I-76) in the Pittsburgh area, I think you could make it 75 as well.  It's far enough out from Pittsburgh and only has 3 exits in all of Allegheny county (Exit #57 I-376; Exit #48 to PA-28; Exit #39 PA-8)

=====

Anyways, getting back to the subject of this post, I can't wait till they get the study done for I-77.  Because I hate having to slow down along it because the two states around it have 70mph on their segments of the highway (WV & NC).

SP Cook

The myth that artificially underposted SLs ever saved even one life is disproven everytime traffic mortality and morbidity statistics are published after an SL increase.

77 in Virginia, consisting of only 58 independent miles (8 are multiplexed into 81) and wedged between 70 states in WV and NC, is among America's worst speed traps.  Well designed, fairly lightly traveled, with almost 99% of the traffic passig through, rather than using the exits or entrances, and in a totally rural setting, the Virginia cops have trampled on the rights of motorists there for decades. 

It will be good to see it go to 70, which is still not fast enough.

Mr_Northside

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on February 18, 2010, 02:28:12 AM
I-79 in Butler County was at 70mph for a little while.  I clearly remember seeing a few 70 signs South of the PA-68 interchange in the late '90's for a little while before they were changed to 65mph.  Too bad I didn't have a camera back then of my own to get any pictures.

That is a shame you couldn't get any pictures... cause I have to admit that I really can't believe that.  
It obviously would have been an error sign, as PA had no 70MPH-S.L. in the 90's (Or as long as I've been alive).  
And unlike a lot of erroneous signs (Such as a US route shield for a a PA route, or a misspelled name or something like that) that aren't THAT critical and can stay up for a while, I'm sure the minute a trooper or alert PennDOT employee (insert PennDOT joke here) noticed that sign error, it would've come down almost right away.
I don't have opinions anymore. All I know is that no one is better than anyone else, and everyone is the best at everything

74/171FAN

Honestly I think that the freeway portion of VA 168 between the toll plaza and the Battlefield Blvd interchange(Exit 13) could possibly also handle a 70 mph speed limit.  I know summer traffic probably wouldn't allow the speed limit to be that high but if it's still 55 it could at least be 60 or 65 to get rid of the speed trap. (Note: I haven't ridden on VA 168 since 2005 but was 55 last I saw)  I also think that VA 288 from north of VA 76 andSR 720/Lucks Ln to I-64 could also be 70 as the traffic is less on that section than south and east of VA 76.
I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

WillWeaverRVA

Quote from: 74/171FAN on February 18, 2010, 03:23:19 PM
Honestly I think that the freeway portion of VA 168 between the toll plaza and the Battelfield Blvd interchange(Exit 13) could possibly also handle a 70 mph speed limit.  I know summer traffic probably wouldn't allow the speed limit to be that high but if it's still 55 it could at least be 60 or 65 to get rid of the speed trap. (Note: I haven't ridden on VA 168 since 2005 but was 55 last I saw)  I also think that VA 288 from north of VA 76 andSR 720/Lucks Ln to I-64 could also be 70 as the traffic is less on that section than south and east of VA 76.

A good chunk of VA 168 could be at least 60mph despite being in the Chesapeake city limits, but I'm not sure about 70. Maybe 65.

Other routes that would work with a 70mph speed limit would be I-295 between I-64 and Hopewell, I-95 south of Petersburg, and I-64 west of VA 288 (with some exceptions, e.g. I-81 multiplex and cities).
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vdeane

There's a post on MTR arguing that a lot of I-81 could actually go to 70 mph.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

deathtopumpkins

VA-168 was still 55 last August (last time I drove it--lately I've been taking the Alt OBX Route (US-17) every time I go down to NC), and could very easily handle 70+. It's recently built, meets full interstate standards (I believe), and has relatively few exits, especially on the southern portion, which around the toll plaza goes a LONG way between interchanges.
And traffic on it already does 70+ anyway.

Another potentially 70-mph road: Pocahontas 895. When I drove it last summer it was posted at 65 the whole way (except for a stretch temporarily 55 for a work zone around the under-construction airport connector interchange), was built to very high standards, and was very lightly traveled.
Disclaimer: All posts represent my personal opinions and not those of my employer.

Clinched Highways | Counties Visited

PAHighways

Quote from: Revive 755 on February 17, 2010, 11:35:16 PM
^ I think most PA drivers already are going 75 on most of those, especially on the Turnpike and around Harrisburg in the off hours.

That is why the speed limit won't go higher than 65 because we go 10 MPH over.  When PA went to 65 (and that took a lot of arm twisting), I remember the State Police saying they didn't want to see it go any higher because people would be going 10+whatever that limit might be.

PAHighways

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on February 18, 2010, 02:28:12 AMI-79 in Butler County was at 70mph for a little while.  I clearly remember seeing a few 70 signs South of the PA-68 interchange in the late '90's for a little while before they were changed to 65mph.

I drove that section several times during that period and don't remember a 70 speed limit, and that is something that would have stuck out like a red arrow in a left turn signal.

rickmastfan67

Quote from: PAHighways on February 20, 2010, 01:50:09 AM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on February 18, 2010, 02:28:12 AMI-79 in Butler County was at 70mph for a little while.  I clearly remember seeing a few 70 signs South of the PA-68 interchange in the late '90's for a little while before they were changed to 65mph.

I drove that section several times during that period and don't remember a 70 speed limit, and that is something that would have stuck out like a red arrow in a left turn signal.

Well, it was going SB right after the PA-68 interchange.  It might have been maybe around '96, maybe '97.  But it was there for about 1-2 weeks if I remember correctly.  It was also during Summer.

D-Dey65

Quote from: deanej on February 17, 2010, 03:53:45 PM
For anything I haven't already mentioned:
-All urban freeways outside of NYC and some downtown areas: 60 mph
-All suburban freeways: 65 mph
-All rural freeways: 70 mph
Hell, I'd go for 70 mph on the Long Island Expressway. The same for the New Jersey Turnpike, and I-95 between Delaware and Virginia. In the Carolinas and Florida, I'd prefer 80.


Nexis4Jersey

I think the NJTPK was designed for 100mph speeds , even if these new speed limits increase , the bulk of Traffic will still make it 20mph for most of the Day.

NJRoadfan

Quote from: Nexis4Jersey on February 20, 2010, 10:48:40 AM
I think the NJTPK was designed for 100mph speeds , even if these new speed limits increase , the bulk of Traffic will still make it 20mph for most of the Day.

Between Exit 1 and 4 can easily be signed 70mph. Same goes for I-295 from Exit 1C to the beginning of the US-130 multiplex. I'd like to see VA purposely sign I-95 through Emporia and Greenville County as 70mph, teach them a lesson. It even connects with NC's 70mph zone, the highway is just as busy in that state, so why not? Heck the southern part of I-295 around Richmond can goto 70mph without any issue as well (north of I-64 is a little busy for that).



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