AARoads Forum

Didn't see a thread for minor projects around the state.

Durant is getting a nice makeover to improve US-69/75 Corridor in Bryant County to upgrade to interstate standards.

From ODOT

Quote
Thanks to U.S. Sen. James Inhofe, a federal grant will bring convenience, access and safety to the US-69/75 corridor near Durant, putting highway improvements into the fast lane.

The $62 million FASTLANE grant, awarded by the U.S. Department of Transportation, will help improve safety and efficiency for the significant freight traffic on the US-69/75 corridor by improving approximately four miles of existing highway from Chickasaw Rd. in Calera to US-70 in Durant. This segment has numerous access points, including three signalized intersections and a rail crossing, which create traffic congestion and serious safety concerns. This grant will fund projects to upgrade US-69/75 to a controlled-access highway with grade separations and frontage roads, as well as improvements to rail crossings.

"Without this grant there was no funding solution for this project,"  said ODOT Executive Director Mike Patterson. "We are thankful to Senator Inhofe, Congressman Markwayne Mullin and the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma who have all been instrumental in the application process. We have been encouraged by the broad support from entities that are impacted by freight movement in this region."

US-69/75 is a major freight corridor connecting eastern Oklahoma with nearby regional centers like Dallas, Texas and St. Louis, Mo. and with national border crossings.

This was a very competitive grant process, and Oklahoma's application was one of only 18 projects selected out of more than 200 submissions nationwide.

In addition to improving freight movement through this stretch of highway, the upgrades are expected to significantly improve driver safety by reducing intersection-related crashes. Of the 346 collisions on US-69/75 in this area from 2010 to 2014, 63 percent occurred at an intersection and 19 percent involved a commercial motor vehicle. The existing crash rate is four and a half times higher than that of a similar grade-separated, controlled-access segment of US-69/75 in Pittsburg County.

With funding set, ODOT will expedite work to complete the environmental review, engineering, right-of-way acquisition and utility relocation by Federal Fiscal Year 2018. Construction is tentatively set to begin in FFY 2019. Before announcement of this grant, the right-of-way and utility phases were scheduled for FFY 2023 and construction was not even scheduled in ODOT's Eight-year Construction Work Plan due to no available funding solution.

- https://www.ok.gov/triton/modules/newsroom/newsroom_article.php?id=277&article_id=23200

Some other articles here:

https://www.ok.gov/triton/modules/newsroom/newsroom_article.php?id=277&article_id=23420

http://durantdemocrat.com/news/5904/grant-awarded-for-highway-6975-upgrade

2 more miles of US 69 is getting upgraded to a fully controlled facility in McAlester. Construction to begin later this year.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.awesomescreenshot.com%2Fupload%2F%2F146660%2F8b83fe5a-0712-438d-66a1-66f994e76392.png&hash=0519970c784d035cedbe23386a23b92ceeeb0776)

Meeting materials here: https://www.ok.gov/odot/Programs_and_Projects/Public_Meetings_and_Hearings/20151105.html

It's too bad ODOT can't funding to upgrade a LOT more of US-69 to Interstate standards. There is a huge amount of truck traffic on that corridor. At least these upgrades in Calera and McAlester will be relatively painless. There's next to nothing in terms of property to buy and demolish to make room for the new road. Frontage roads already run alongside those segments.

New left lane passing only signs are coming in 2017.

QuoteAt its Tuesday, Sept. 6 meeting, the Oklahoma Transportation Commission approved a planned Oklahoma Department of Transportation project to place signs on I-35 and I-40 statewide to encourage motorists to use the right lane and not impede left lane traffic. The project to install these signs will use federal funds and is expected to go to bid in early 2017.

- https://www.ok.gov/triton/modules/newsroom/newsroom_article.php?id=277&article_id=25261

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.odot.org%2Fnewsmedia%2Fpress%2F2016%2F16-042-2.jpg&hash=20b14218d27323c1f63ebaee0a74131d121cab7a)

NICE

How about DRIVE RIGHT (OVERTAKE) PASS LEFT?

XT1585

QuoteWhy not "KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS"?

That phrase doesn't speak as directly to thick-headed drivers who insist on driving slow in the left lane. Those new designs have a sternly worded tone, particularly with the "state law" header applied to them.

Some of the rolling road block morons out there don't realize they can get a ticket for driving slow in the left lane and blocking passing traffic on Oklahoma's Interstates and turnpikes. Those new designs should remove any of the "I didn't know" excuses when they get stopped by OHP.

New 8 year plan is out.

Here is the press release: https://ok.gov/triton/modules/newsroom/newsroom_article.php?id=277&article_id=25968

Links to the districts: https://www.ok.gov/odot/Programs_and_______Projects/8_Year_Construction_Work_Plan/

Not really anything project related but didn't want to post a new thread for this, OKDOT now has a Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/OKDOT/

Just thought I'd share. :)

Oklahoma's first J-Turn intersection coming to Muskogee.

(https://www.ok.gov/odot/images/J-Turn%201.jpg)

QuoteAn upcoming project beginning in spring 2017 will convert the intersection of US-62 and 2-Mile Rd. near Fort Gibson to a J-Turn, the first intersection of this design constructed by ODOT. Image courtesy of the Federal Highway Administration.



How the US-62 J-Turn will work

All north and southbound county road traffic on 2-Mile Rd. will yield at the intersection with US-62 and then make a right turn onto the highway
Through traffic and left-turning traffic will then use a nearby highway median opening to make a U-turn and go back the opposite direction toward 2-Mile Rd.   
Some J-Turn designs include left-turn lanes on the highway and traffic signals. The planned US-62 intersection does not.

https://www.ok.gov/odot/J-Turn_Intersections_101.html

Those (J-turn) exist in Missouri.  An attempt to reduce T-bones, no doubt.   

Have they worked?

https://www.ok.gov/odot/Programs_and_Projects/Public_Meetings_and_Hearings/20170323.html

Short news about the Gilgrease expressway. https://tollroadsnews.com/news-briefs/daily-news-briefs-march-3-2017/
Including a map showing the interchanges locations. http://www.newson6.com/story/34653486/city-ok-turnpike-authority-agree-to-build-west-leg-of-gilcrease-turnpike

The Jacobs St. bridge in Ardmore was apparently severely damaged by a collision and now needs to either be significantly repaired, replaced, or permanently torn down. Hopefully they replace it and make it nice.

https://www.ok.gov/triton/modules/newsroom/newsroom_article.php?id=277&article_id=37706

I'm it sure. I would have to see the traffic counts. But to me, any bridge lost is a step backwards because it's a decrease in mobility. Even if it only served a small amount of people, it could prove useful in times of emergencies or special circumstances. Though I must admit, I'm speaking out of my ass here because I am not familiar with this bridge, the area, or why it was built.

I'm amazed that an overpass was even built there in the first place. I'm sure that there won't be many tears shed over its loss.

I-35/Shields split is getting an APL. thanks for the new APLs Action Safety! :clap: :clap:

The plans I saw showed a diagrammatic there, not an APL.

Quote from: MCRoads on December 07, 2017, 10:55:31 AM
thanks for the new APLs Action Safety!

What does this mean?

Action Safety is one of ODOT's contractors.

Thanks!  I was trying to rearrange words and figure out misspellings, nothing was making sense.  Figures, all that was missing was a comma...

Construction on the new H.E. Bailey Turnpike toll plaza (on I-44 near mile marker 66) is finished. However OTA is not going to start operating the toll plaza until January 2018. I thought the plaza was supposed to open this fall. On a local news report they said OTA had all kinds of different testing and other work to do before bringing the new toll plaza into service. Once that plaza becomes operational OTA will demolish the old toll plaza just South of Chickasha. The demolition project will take about 3 weeks to complete. Removal of that old toll plaza will help make room for a new cloverleaf interchange that will be part of a new US-81 bypass. I don't know when construction of that bypass project will begin. Given the sorry condition of the state government's finances I imagine it could be at least a few years before construction begins.

I'll be somewhat glad when the new toll plaza is working and the old one is removed. It's a pain slowing down through there on road trips to OKC. But word has it OTA is going to raise toll prices early in 2018. So that will temper some of the enthusiasm.

Down here in Lawton, ODOT announced a $6 "upgrade" of the Roger's Lane and I-44 interchange in Lawton. The project will begin early in 2018 and be finished by early 2019. I put the "upgrade" part in quotes because I don't think it is much of an upgrade.

They're going to change ramp configurations so they can remove one of the two traffic signals on Rogers Lane, the signal on the East side of the interchange. Their solution is adding a pair of U-shaped cloverleaf ramps so EB Rogers Lane traffic can enter WB I-44 without having to turn left at a signal. The second U-shaped ramp will allow WB I-44 traffic to enter WB Rogers Lane without being held at a signal (but it's still going to be a nearly hard right turn getting on Rogers Lane. The big problem I have with this solution is it absolutely will create a lot of traffic weaving issues under the Rogers Lane bridge over I-44.

So many other places are using braided ramps and newer interchange designs like SPUIs and DDIs. Here in Lawton we're going to get old fashioned, cheapskate remedies. I have to wonder why even bother with this project? It's not even the biggest traffic heading involving I-44 in Lawton. That prize goes to the Gore Blvd interchange with I-44. There's 3 traffic lights in short succession along Gore Blvd through there. IMHO, the Gore Blvd interchange needs to be replaced with a SPUI and the signal just East at Laurie Tatum Road & the entrance to Comanche Nation Casino and Best Western needs to removed and replaced with barrier-separated RIRO turns. That would solve the traffic back-ups through there.

Quote from: Bobby5280 on December 09, 2017, 03:58:36 PM
Down here in Lawton, ODOT announced a $6 "upgrade" of the Roger's Lane and I-44 interchange in Lawton. The project will begin early in 2018 and be finished by early 2019. I put the "upgrade" part in quotes because I don't think it is much of an upgrade.

I can't imagine it'd be much of one if they're only spending six dollars on it. Then again, that is in line with ODOT's budget...

Gee, if only every road project was that cheap!  :-D

Um, yeah. $6 is a hell of a typo. The cost of that project is actually supposed to be $6 million. The end result won't be worth $6 however.

Look what I'm saying is that this will further complete Tulsa's system. As for passenger rail, I don't support the rail line proposal between the cities because it is a joke. Once they really propose HSR running down the turnpike, then I'll support that. Not like it matters anyways.

Quote from: Bobby5280 on December 09, 2017, 03:58:36 PM
Construction on the new H.E. Bailey Turnpike toll plaza (on I-44 near mile marker 66) is finished. However OTA is not going to start operating the toll plaza until January 2018. I thought the plaza was supposed to open this fall. On a local news report they said OTA had all kinds of different testing and other work to do before bringing the new toll plaza into service. Once that plaza becomes operational OTA will demolish the old toll plaza just South of Chickasha. The demolition project will take about 3 weeks to complete. Removal of that old toll plaza will help make room for a new cloverleaf interchange that will be part of a new US-81 bypass. I don't know when construction of that bypass project will begin. Given the sorry condition of the state government's finances I imagine it could be at least a few years before construction begins.

ROW acquisition is still scheduled for FY2018.  I need to check and see if the recent changes in the 8 Year Plan have moved grading and paving out past FY2020.

I visited OKC this past weekend to do a little St Patrick's Day celebrating with some friends. I was finally able to check out the new I-44 toll plaza at mile marker 66. The toll plaza buildings may be pretty plain, but the whole thing is a big improvement over the old plaza South of Chickasha. And it's quite a bit better than the I-44 toll plaza South of Newcastle. That one is fairly annoying since the single Pike Pass lanes go to the right, outside of the plaza. That creates all sorts of weaving issues between faster Pike Pass account traffic and slower cash-only vehicles driving in the right lane blocking quick access to the Pike Pass lane. OTA never should have built the toll plaza like that. They might replace it with a more effective design 4-5 years from now.

The old toll plaza just south of Chickasha has been demolished. However, there are still Jersey barriers all over the site. Construction crews are replacing the old pavement (which will get rid of the speed zone rumble strips). They're not very far along with the effort. I expect they'll be working on it well into the summer.

The Muskogee Turnpike's western toll plaza at the Coweta interchange is now complete. It's nice not having to exit off the highway to go through the Pikepass lanes.

Norman is in the wrong state. They've been working on upgrading our mastarm signage to comply with the 2009 MUTCD by replacing them with signs in this style:
(https://i.imgur.com/lsQRMM9.png)

I noticed on Saturday that they had replaced the ones at Main Street and Mercedes Drive with some in the new style. Unfortunately, the text was slightly off-center, so that the text was much closer to the top of the blade than the bottom.

Monday, I went through the same intersection, and the signs were completely gone. Presumably, they're making new ones. That's about the most un-Oklahoman signing practice I've seen. OKC or ODOT would have left it up off-center.

I haven't seen the street name signs with text positioned too close to the top. But I would bet the text on those signs had decenders on the lower case letters. A correct design would have the text vertically centered on the sign blade in reference to the capital letter "M" height. A "designer" who doesn't care about details just types out the street name and vertically centers the whole object, regardless of what letters like "g, j, p & q" can do to throw off the vertical centering. And then curvy capital letters like "O" are actually taller than squared off letters like "E."

Here in Lawton I still see street name signs going up with the lower case letters reduced down to 75% of their normal size. The sign will have a big capital letter and absurdly tiny lowercase letters. Oh, and they often don't center the lettering properly either.

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 25, 2018, 05:32:53 AM
Norman is in the wrong state. They've been working on upgrading our mastarm signage to comply with the 2009 MUTCD by replacing them with signs in this style:
(https://i.imgur.com/lsQRMM9.png)

Except they made the pictograph too big to be MUTCD compliant:

Quote from: 2009 MUTCD 2D.43 Paragraph 12If a pictograph is used on a D3-1 sign, the height and width of the pictograph shall not exceed the upper-case letter height of the principal legend of the sign.

Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 27, 2018, 08:51:21 PM
I haven't seen the street name signs with text positioned too close to the top. But I would bet the text on those signs had decenders on the lower case letters. A correct design would have the text vertically centered on the sign blade in reference to the capital letter "M" height.

Funny you say that: the legend was "Mercedes Dr." No descenders to blame, just someone not even bothering to hit the center button.

This isn't the first time that Norman has made a legitimate attempt at QA. There was one mastarm sign that a contractor installed that had text so horizontally compressed that it was nearly unreadable. The city quickly replaced it with one of their own signs.

Quote from: Scott5114Funny you say that: the legend was "Mercedes Dr." No descenders to blame, just someone not even bothering to hit the center button.

There's actually a good chance their shop drawings mandated the upward shift of lettering placement on all signs to make room for decenders regardless if the sign lettering had any decenders or not. Maybe someone finally took notice of how stupid the end results were looking and decided to change it.

The whole problem goes back to changes in the MUTCD mandating mixed case lettering on signs. For the longest time most small street signs were set with uppercase lettering. To save money on material the sign panels provided only a small amount of negative space around the all-caps lettering. With the rules shifted to mixed case legends the street name sign panels all needed to be significantly taller. More room was needed those decenders, especially if the line of lettering was going to be properly centered on the panel. That translates into a larger, more costly sign panel. Rather than blow more money on taller sign panels we've been seeing all sorts of design travesties influenced by cost cutting. It makes me wonder if some of those really stupid looking street name signs with very tiny lowercase letters were made that way deliberately. They saw the rule about MUTCD approved fonts (with lowercase letters 75% of the cap letter height) and took that as an opportunity to keep using narrow panels meant only for uppercase lettering.

Quote from: Scott5114This isn't the first time that Norman has made a legitimate attempt at QA. There was one mastarm sign that a contractor installed that had text so horizontally compressed that it was nearly unreadable. The city quickly replaced it with one of their own signs.

When a sign (or any piece of graphic design work) has lettering stretched or squeezed out of its original, native proportions it's a pretty good indicator an amateur or hack did the "design" work.

I'll do just about anything to avoid distorting typefaces out of their normal proportions. I can't stand the warped, fun house mirror look of distorted type. You'll see it on many garbage-quality signs, often with the lettering set in a default font like Arial Bold or Black. God forbid the "designer" scroll down in the font list to a natively condensed or extended type choice.

Two kinds of "designers" distort type: ones who don't know better and others who just don't care. The ones who don't know better can learn and improve the quality of their work. As for the ones who don't care: f### them. They need to get another job and stop visually crapping on the landscape.

As of last night, the old red sign had been reinstalled. What?

Quote from: Scott5114 on May 09, 2018, 06:47:18 PM
As of last night, the old red sign had been reinstalled. What?

I'll be in Norman Wednesday night. I'll check on it.

The red sign is still there as of 2:30 AM today–but the green signs remain on the cross street. It is odd.

ODOT appears to be experimenting with enhanced mileposts on I-35 between Purcell and Norman. Rather than the MoDOT practice of posting them every .2 miles, they are posted at the .0 and .5s only. On the .0 posts, the decimal panel is omitted entirely.

When I went to Purcell on Thursday, they had only been posted down to exit 98 southbound. I was still seeing the backs of them northbound at least to exit 95.

Also, on the weirdness at Main & Mercedes in Norman–we're back to green signs as of yesterday, new ones, with the alignment issue corrected.

The Gilcrease Turnpike is unpopular? According to whom? It isn't needed? It will provide a much safer and better route from I-44 in midtown to US 64-412 west towards Sand Springs. It will bypass downtown and the nasty, slow, clogged and dangerous IDL. I don't get out to Sand Springs very often, but I'd happily pay the toll to avoid the deathtrap known as the Inner Dispersal Loop.

Nexus 5X

There are very few houses in the ROW of the future Gilcrease Turnpike. The ones that were there (just south of US 64-412) were removed decades ago. This road will benefit far more than it will inconvenience.

As far as the IDL goes, there isn't a lot of room to expand it

Quote from: bugo on June 30, 2018, 11:41:11 PM
There are very few houses in the ROW of the future Gilcrease Turnpike. The ones that were there (just south of US 64-412) were removed decades ago. This road will benefit far more than it will inconvenience.

As far as the IDL goes, there isn't a lot of room to expand it

Eminent domaine and or elevated structures and tunnels. This country needs to start thinking big again. So tired of the status quo :/

Btw, this isn't targeted at you. I know you're thinking realistically, but it is sad to see things that won't be done bc people don't wanna think they're possible. At any rate, it would at least be nice to see the IDL reconstructed and exits moved to the right with C/D lanes.

I-40 at Exit 64 Interchange at Gary Boulevard and a mile or so of the interstate will be getting some upgrades. I believe this meeting is just an update to select the alternative: https://www.ok.gov/odot/Programs_and_Projects/Public_Meetings_and_Hearings/20190228.html

https://www.route66news.com/2019/02/18/work-to-replace-horse-creek-bridge-in-afton-begins-today/

US-385 through Boise City will be reconstructed as will the roads around Boise Public Square:

QuoteThe Oklahoma Department of Transportation (ODOT) is scheduled to reconstruct US-385 around the Boise City Square and extending north 0.7 miles along Cimarron Avenue. This project will consist of full replacement of the current pavement, improve drainage, replacing the existing water and sewer lines, and provide for pedestrian access to the inner square. The
project will also provide for proper turning movements through the square for large vehicles, while providing added protection for parked vehicles and pedestrians. This investment in Boise City reflects ODOT's commitment to improvements of US-385 and the City of Boise City.

https://www.ok.gov/odot/Programs_and_Projects/Public_Meetings_and_Hearings/20190312.html

Oklahoma's first DDI will be in Elk City at I-40 and SH-6. Construction starts in September and OkDOT says it should open in a year from then.

[vimeo]https://vimeo.com/317295004[/vimeo]

https://www.ok.gov/odot/What's_New/I-40_and_SH-6_Diverging_Diamond_Interchange.html

Elk City is not exactly a big place.  Why on earth was a decision made to place such an unconventional interchange there?!?

Quote from: DJStephens on March 13, 2019, 05:21:19 PM
Elk City is not exactly a big place.  Why on earth was a decision made to place such an unconventional interchange there?!?

I guess it might be linked to the other project to make the remaining gap of OK-6 a 4-lanes divided highway?

Quote from: DJStephens on March 13, 2019, 05:21:19 PM
Elk City is not exactly a big place.  Why on earth was a decision made to place such an unconventional interchange there?!?

The amount of oil field traffic at that interchange is daunting plus that's the only exit between Clinton and Shamrock with a decent number of services. I think it's a great place for a DDI.

The Baron Fork Creek Bridge along OK 51 near Eldon is in the process of being replaced and the intersection at US 62 is being realigned.

The Transportation Commission is considering at their meeting on Monday a proposal to decommission the section of SH-3 (Northwest Expressway) between the Kilpatrick Turnpike and SH-74, turning the road over to Oklahoma City. SH-3 will be rerouted to concur with SH-4 (apparently the ODOT terminology for this is that "SH-3 will become a follow route") to I-40, and then follow I-40 to I-44. The portion of Northwest Expressway between SH-4 and the turnpike will become a new incarnation of SH-3A.

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 30, 2019, 03:48:14 AM
The Transportation Commission is considering at their meeting on Monday a proposal to decommission the section of SH-3 (Northwest Expressway) between the Kilpatrick Turnpike and SH-74, turning the road over to Oklahoma City. SH-3 will be rerouted to concur with SH-4 (apparently the ODOT terminology for this is that "SH-3 will become a follow route") to I-40, and then follow I-40 to I-44. The portion of Northwest Expressway between SH-4 and the turnpike will become a new incarnation of SH-3A.

OKC needs to have their head examined over this.  That stretch of road is highly substandard and not just the pavement. It will cost millions to bring it up to what a 6-lane arterial should be.

If OK 3 is rerouted to follow OK 4 and I-40, it should just stay on I-40 all the way past the I-40/I-240 interchange. It would make more sense.

Quote from: rte66man on July 02, 2019, 09:33:34 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 30, 2019, 03:48:14 AM
The Transportation Commission is considering at their meeting on Monday a proposal to decommission the section of SH-3 (Northwest Expressway) between the Kilpatrick Turnpike and SH-74, turning the road over to Oklahoma City. SH-3 will be rerouted to concur with SH-4 (apparently the ODOT terminology for this is that "SH-3 will become a follow route") to I-40, and then follow I-40 to I-44. The portion of Northwest Expressway between SH-4 and the turnpike will become a new incarnation of SH-3A.

OKC needs to have their head examined over this.  That stretch of road is highly substandard and not just the pavement. It will cost millions to bring it up to what a 6-lane arterial should be.

I imagine OKC wants it because it's substandard. If OkDOT has it, who knows when it'll get upgraded? If the city owns it, they can upgrade it with city funds and make sure it gets done.

OkDOT and OKC often find themselves at loggerheads because OkDOT simply does not understand OKC's needs beyond the freeway system. As a result, OKC is already planning to tear up and change parts of the new OKC Boulevard once it's turned over to them, and it's not even finished yet. But OkDOT won't build what the city wants, so there's a lot of waste going on.

The work order for resurfacing NW Expressway from Portland west to the Kilpatrick was started on 5/15.

   http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/contractadmin/pdfs/const_rep.pdf  p114

I've not seen any evidence of anything being done. Anyone?

As to the OKC Boulevard last segment, worked started 2/12/2018 and has 531 days for completion. That was adjusted from 445 days.  About 83% complete.

Of course OKC is not totally blameless on the design of the boulevard either. They asked OkDOT to build the intersection at Oklahoma Avenue where it is, assuming they'd be able to acquire ROW to connect Oklahoma straight through. U-Haul, which owns the relevant real estate, wouldn't deal with the city. So now they're going to have to relocate Oklahoma to the west side of the U-Haul building as soon as they take possession of the boulevard, tearing up the existing intersection and moving it a few hundred feet west.

Though no funding is currently identified, OKDOT plans to work with the OTA to build a new interchange along the Muskogee Turnpike near Coweta.

https://sh-51-poe.hub.arcgis.com/pages/86b0627a812f4fcb92c5a0daa586a51e

I never knew that turnpike was designated as SH-351. I recall seeing a poster on this board mention no OK turnpikes were signed.

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 09, 2021, 07:36:13 PM
I never knew that turnpike was designated as SH-351. I recall seeing a poster on this board mention no OK turnpikes were signed.

It wasn't until 2014. At the same time, the Creek Turnpike was designated SH-364. I-44 covers three turnpikes, and US-412 covers two.  Besides 351 and 364, there are no other turnpikes carrying SH numbers. (That is to say, the following turnpikes lack numbers: Chickasaw, Indian Nation, Kickapoo, Kilpatrick, and the Bailey and Cimarron spurs.)

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 09, 2021, 08:42:50 PM

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 09, 2021, 07:36:13 PM
I never knew that turnpike was designated as SH-351. I recall seeing a poster on this board mention no OK turnpikes were signed.

It wasn't until 2014. At the same time, the Creek Turnpike was designated SH-364. I-44 covers three turnpikes, and US-412 covers two.  Besides 351 and 364, there are no other turnpikes carrying SH numbers. (That is to say, the following turnpikes lack numbers: Chickasaw, Indian Nation, Kickapoo, Kilpatrick, and the Bailey and Cimarron spurs.)

I knew about I-44 but for some reason US-412 completely slipped my mind even after discussing removing the tolls on it.

Keep Tolls.

Quote from: In_Correct on June 09, 2021, 10:40:53 PM
Keep Tolls.

Tulsa needs at least one toll free interstate route.

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 09, 2021, 11:31:34 PM

Quote from: In_Correct on June 09, 2021, 10:40:53 PM
Keep Tolls.

Tulsa needs at least one toll free interstate route.

That one can be an extension of Interstate 45.

Quote from: In_Correct on June 09, 2021, 11:48:51 PM

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 09, 2021, 11:31:34 PM

Quote from: In_Correct on June 09, 2021, 10:40:53 PM
Keep Tolls.

Tulsa needs at least one toll free interstate route.

That one can be an extension of Interstate 45.

If it's ever built. Oklahoma is not exactly flush with cash. Hell, I'd be happy just to see OKDOT place "future"  interstate markers at this point.

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 09, 2021, 08:42:50 PM

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 09, 2021, 07:36:13 PM
I never knew that turnpike was designated as SH-351. I recall seeing a poster on this board mention no OK turnpikes were signed.

It wasn't until 2014. At the same time, the Creek Turnpike was designated SH-364. I-44 covers three turnpikes, and US-412 covers two.  Besides 351 and 364, there are no other turnpikes carrying SH numbers. (That is to say, the following turnpikes lack numbers: Chickasaw, Indian Nation, Kickapoo, Kilpatrick, and the Bailey and Cimarron spurs.)

Don’t forget the under-construction Gilcrease Turnpike, which is already designated SH-344.

I'm going through the ODOT standard drawings (yes! ODOT has standards! Weird, huh?) and found something wacky I'm pretty sure is an error: Exit tabs are all specified using vanilla Series E, except when the exit number is two digits without a suffix, in which case the exit number (and not the word Exit) are Series E(M). What?

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 10, 2021, 12:02:24 AM

Quote from: In_Correct on June 09, 2021, 11:48:51 PM

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 09, 2021, 11:31:34 PM

Quote from: In_Correct on June 09, 2021, 10:40:53 PM
Keep Tolls.

Tulsa needs at least one toll free interstate route.

That one can be an extension of Interstate 45.

If it's ever built. Oklahoma is not exactly flush with cash. Hell, I'd be happy just to see OKDOT place "future"  interstate markers at this point.

Oklahoma Is Not Exactly Flush With Cash. ... is a perfect reason for them to have Toll Roads and to build more of them. And then The Necessary Superhighway can be upgraded mostly untolled into Oklahoma.   The Necessary Superhighway is Interstate 45, Interstate 345, U.S. 75, U.S. 69, The Jefferson Highway, Mississippi Avenue, and perhaps many other names and designations also. Cash is not the only problem of why they have not completed it. Backlash is another reason. Tolled Bypasses might be necessary for the towns.

Quote from: In_Correct on June 11, 2021, 02:46:01 AM
Oklahoma Is Not Exactly Flush With Cash. ... is a perfect reason for them to have Toll Roads and to build more of them. And then The Necessary Superhighway can be upgraded mostly untolled into Oklahoma.   The Necessary Superhighway is Interstate 45, Interstate 345, U.S. 75, U.S. 69, The Jefferson Highway, Mississippi Avenue, and perhaps many other names and designations also. Cash is not the only problem of why they have not completed it. Backlash is another reason. Tolled Bypasses might be necessary for the towns.

It's because of the cheapassed conservative rednecks in this state who don't want to pay taxes because they might help somebody other than themselves. Taxes need to go way up, especially the corporate tax on energy companies.

Quote from: bugo on June 11, 2021, 09:20:38 AM

Quote from: In_Correct on June 11, 2021, 02:46:01 AM
Oklahoma Is Not Exactly Flush With Cash. ... is a perfect reason for them to have Toll Roads and to build more of them. And then The Necessary Superhighway can be upgraded mostly untolled into Oklahoma.   The Necessary Superhighway is Interstate 45, Interstate 345, U.S. 75, U.S. 69, The Jefferson Highway, Mississippi Avenue, and perhaps many other names and designations also. Cash is not the only problem of why they have not completed it. Backlash is another reason. Tolled Bypasses might be necessary for the towns.

It's because of the cheapassed conservative rednecks in this state who don't want to pay taxes because they might help somebody other than themselves. Taxes need to go way up, especially the corporate tax on energy companies.

Yes this

While I don't necessary disagree with the "cheapassed conservative rednecks" comment, building new roads as toll roads may be the only way new roads in Oklahoma (and elsewhere) get constructed. I am skeptical of "just-raise-the-gas-tax" arguments. I would not be surprised if gas taxes are eventually eliminated completely, in favor of other types of fees to pay for transportation improvements.

The tax that bugo is referring to is not the gas tax, but rather the tax on oil production. This tax was lowered from 7% to 2% in 2014, signed into law during the term of Gov. Mary Fallin, during a trough in oil prices which impacted the profitability of Oklahoma oil companies. The resulting loss of revenue was one of many factors leading to the education crisis a few years later. Conservatives say that the tax cut incentivizes oil production and keeps jobs in Oklahoma, while liberals and progressives point out that the oil companies can't really pick and choose where the oil is (you can't just choose to drill for oil in a lower-tax state), and they didn't just leave it in the ground when the tax rate was 7%.

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 11, 2021, 04:06:11 PM
While I don't necessary disagree with the "cheapassed conservative rednecks" comment, building new roads as toll roads may be the only way new roads in Oklahoma (and elsewhere) get constructed. I am skeptical of "just-raise-the-gas-tax" arguments. I would not be surprised if gas taxes are eventually eliminated completely, in favor of other types of fees to pay for transportation improvements.

So how do states like Texas, California, Arizona, Utah, etc. all build massive roads without tolls left and right? The answer is obvious. More taxes go to roads. Either the state needs to raise the taxes to fund road projects or they aren't allocating their funding right. I don't believe Oklahoma is the latter, if you know anything about state politics.

In general, Oklahoma does have a certain voter base that thinks taxation is theft and they shouldn't pay for a road "they'll never use."  Hopefully this years redistricting initiative might sway the unbalanced rural favoring of politics Oklahoma experiences.

Raising Taxes takes too much time.

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 11, 2021, 04:42:27 PM
In general, Oklahoma does have a certain voter base that thinks taxation is theft and they shouldn't pay for a road "they'll never use."  Hopefully this years redistricting initiative might sway the unbalanced rural favoring of politics Oklahoma experiences.

I wouldn't count on that. Oklahoma Republicans are still rattled that they lost the fifth district in 2018, even though they won it back in 2020. I'm expecting the 2022 maps to slice and dice the metro areas even more so that they get stuck to unrelated rural areas, dividing and conquering the urban areas so they have no power to overcome the rural voters. That is, something similar to Utah's congressional districts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah%27s_congressional_districts).

Yep. "Cracking and packing" style gerrymandering is definitely a big tactic in redistricting. Nevertheless Oklahoma's rural areas are bleeding population at an increasing rate. I get kind of saddened when visiting small towns like Temple and Walters, seeing various businesses that have closed. There's only so much the GOP is going to be able to do at blunting the growing political power of growing metros like OKC and Tulsa.

It's a long shot, but there is a chance the federal government may change the national gasoline tax to a percentage-based rate that goes up or down with overall gasoline prices. For the longest time the rate has been flat.

Oklahoma did a modest increase of gasoline taxes to re-direct into education funding since teachers were leaving the state in droves. Our gasoline taxes are still much lower than other states, such as California.

I'm not sure how I feel about California's gas tax. I'd have less of a problem with it if trusted the state government but I don't want to get too political so I'll leave it at that.

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 11, 2021, 07:04:13 PM

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 11, 2021, 04:42:27 PM
In general, Oklahoma does have a certain voter base that thinks taxation is theft and they shouldn't pay for a road "they'll never use."  Hopefully this years redistricting initiative might sway the unbalanced rural favoring of politics Oklahoma experiences.

I wouldn't count on that. Oklahoma Republicans are still rattled that they lost the fifth district in 2018, even though they won it back in 2020. I'm expecting the 2022 maps to slice and dice the metro areas even more so that they get stuck to unrelated rural areas, dividing and conquering the urban areas so they have no power to overcome the rural voters. That is, something similar to Utah's congressional districts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah%27s_congressional_districts).

There was a proposal to redistrict earlier this year and OKC would gain a seat and Tulsa would lose one. It looks like they consolidated some urban areas in OKC. For some reason I thought that was more or less the final proposal but...

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 13, 2021, 05:17:39 PM
I'm not sure how I feel about California's gas tax. I'd have less of a problem with it if trusted the state government but I don't want to get too political so I'll leave it at that.

In general, the bolded portion is a fool's errand, no matter the state.

Quote from: kphoger on June 15, 2021, 10:30:11 AM

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 13, 2021, 05:17:39 PM
I'm not sure how I feel about California's gas tax. I'd have less of a problem with it if trusted the state government but I don't want to get too political so I'll leave it at that.

In general, the bolded portion is a fool's errand, no matter the state.

I don't disagree but we have to have some level of trust in our society and government. I was never a true fan of how some of the funds for SB-1 were going to be used but I was willing to compromise as CA badly needed an increase in road funding.

Quote from: Plutonic PandaThere was a proposal to redistrict earlier this year and OKC would gain a seat and Tulsa would lose one. It looks like they consolidated some urban areas in OKC. For some reason I thought that was more or less the final proposal but...

Oklahoma's state district redistricting is a done deal. I don't know about what Tulsa gained or even lost, although I would find it hard to believe Tulsa could have lost anything. The only real losers in this round of redistricting is rural areas. There is a lot of consolidation happening there, particularly the Southeast part of Oklahoma.

The state's legislature will go back into special session this fall to re-draw the lines for Oklahoma's 5 US congressional districts. They have to wait until they get the final US Census data.

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 11, 2021, 04:06:11 PM
While I don't necessary disagree with the "cheapassed conservative rednecks" comment, building new roads as toll roads may be the only way new roads in Oklahoma (and elsewhere) get constructed. I am skeptical of "just-raise-the-gas-tax" arguments. I would not be surprised if gas taxes are eventually eliminated completely, in favor of other types of fees to pay for transportation improvements.

I see tolls as taxes, just more efficient.  Roadpricing should be everywhere.

https://www.ocregister.com/2021/06/05/why-user-fees-should-pay-for-transportation-infrastructure/amp/

Quote from: splashflash on June 19, 2021, 07:48:13 AM
I see tolls as taxes, just more efficient.  Roadpricing should be everywhere.

No. That would be the equivalent of a regressive tax that disproportionally harms the poor. Unless you're going to tie the amount of tolls to the value of the car or the wealth of the driver, sort of like how in some countries, the more a person makes, the higher traffic tickets are. And I'm not against toll roads. I used a toll road literally an hour ago. But I don't believe they should be everywhere. There should always be a free alternative, funded by a gas tax. Even though there are no free alternatives to some toll roads.

^^^ completely agree. I wish we'd abolish toll roads personally but that's my 2 cents.

Quote from: bugo on June 19, 2021, 08:24:24 AM

Quote from: splashflash on June 19, 2021, 07:48:13 AM
I see tolls as taxes, just more efficient.  Roadpricing should be everywhere.

No. That would be the equivalent of a regressive tax that disproportionally harms the poor. Unless you're going to tie the amount of tolls to the value of the car or the wealth of the driver, sort of like how in some countries, the more a person makes, the higher traffic tickets are. And I'm not against toll roads. I used a toll road literally an hour ago. But I don't believe they should be everywhere. There should always be a free alternative, funded by a gas tax. Even though there are no free alternatives to some toll roads.

Roads are not funded by gas taxes. The gas taxes are used to provide incentives for teachers. Tolls must be expanded to every Superhighway.

Quote from: In_Correct on June 19, 2021, 10:26:05 AM

Quote from: bugo on June 19, 2021, 08:24:24 AM

Quote from: splashflash on June 19, 2021, 07:48:13 AM
I see tolls as taxes, just more efficient.  Roadpricing should be everywhere.

No. That would be the equivalent of a regressive tax that disproportionally harms the poor. Unless you're going to tie the amount of tolls to the value of the car or the wealth of the driver, sort of like how in some countries, the more a person makes, the higher traffic tickets are. And I'm not against toll roads. I used a toll road literally an hour ago. But I don't believe they should be everywhere. There should always be a free alternative, funded by a gas tax. Even though there are no free alternatives to some toll roads.

Roads are not funded by gas taxes. The gas taxes are used to provide incentives for teachers. Tolls must be expanded to every Superhighway.

From the arrival,

user fees are socially just because people are getting what they pay for. Far from putting a burden on low-income people, a user-fee-driven transportation system gives everyone a choice of the kind of transportation that works best for them.

In contrast, infrastructure that is paid for out of tax dollars usually ends up primarily benefitting high-income people because they have more political power. At least three-fourths of the subsidies to public transit come from regressive taxes, yet the median income of transit commuters is much higher than the median of all workers. Nineteen out of twenty low-income people don't ride transit to work, yet they disproportionately pay for transit systems that are disproportionately used by high-income people.

The project to widen the I-35 red river bridge along with the rest of the road to Thackerville has received a $50 million dollar federal grant:

QuoteI-35 Red River Bridge Project

In collaboration with the Texas Department of Transportation, this $50 million grant will be used to improve approximately 7.4 miles of I-35 across the Texas and Oklahoma border. The Red River Bridge Project will have significant positive impacts in both Oklahoma and Texas, including within the Chickasaw Nation. The infrastructure that is currently in place was built in the 1960s and can no longer accommodate current traffic volumes of 50,000 vehicles per day.

On March 15, 2021, Cole joined Inhofe in sending a letter to the U.S. Department of Transportation in support of this funding for the I-35 Red River Project.

https://cole.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/oklahoma-awarded-100-million-in-competitive-highway-grants

This is a pretty significant project for southern Oklahoma. It will be great when I-35 is six lanes from OKC to Dallas. Hopefully OkDOT starts planning for widening I-35 to six lanes from Norman to Thackerville soon.

Less significant than you might think–this isn't the first step in a planned widening all the way from Texas to Norman. Notice which tribe was name-checked in the press release? Guess which one Cole is a member of? Guess who owns the casino where the widening stops, and who contributed money toward the Oklahoma portion of the project?

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2021, 05:57:35 PM
Less significant than you might think–this isn't the first step in a planned widening all the way from Texas to Norman. Notice which tribe was name-checked in the press release? Guess which one Cole is a member of? Guess who owns the casino where the widening stops, and who contributed money toward the Oklahoma portion of the project?

Given what the area has seen, a project to widen I-35 from 8 to 6 lanes with service roads is pretty significant if you ask me along with adding two new bridges over the river. TxDOT seems to be interested into paying some of the cost in the state of Oklahoma if I'm reading it correctly.

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on July 04, 2021, 06:35:31 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2021, 05:57:35 PM
Less significant than you might think–this isn't the first step in a planned widening all the way from Texas to Norman. Notice which tribe was name-checked in the press release? Guess which one Cole is a member of? Guess who owns the casino where the widening stops, and who contributed money toward the Oklahoma portion of the project?

Given what the area has seen, a project to widen I-35 from 8 to 6 lanes with service roads is pretty significant if you ask me along with adding two new bridges over the river. TxDOT seems to be interested into paying some of the cost in the state of Oklahoma if I'm reading it correctly.

I believe that Texas's involvement is limited to the bridge itself and the adjoining section of I-35 in Cooke County (which is pretty subpar as it is now).

US-82 to Oklahoma exit 1 is 7.4 miles on the money.

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2021, 05:57:35 PM
Less significant than you might think–this isn't the first step in a planned widening all the way from Texas to Norman. Notice which tribe was name-checked in the press release? Guess which one Cole is a member of? Guess who owns the casino where the widening stops, and who contributed money toward the Oklahoma portion of the project?

Cole could easily, if he wanted to, extend the project all the way to Norman because his congressional district covers that entire section of I-35. I would agree that his tribal interest is the key factor in how that section came to be first.

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2021, 07:48:41 PM

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on July 04, 2021, 06:35:31 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2021, 05:57:35 PM
Less significant than you might think–this isn't the first step in a planned widening all the way from Texas to Norman. Notice which tribe was name-checked in the press release? Guess which one Cole is a member of? Guess who owns the casino where the widening stops, and who contributed money toward the Oklahoma portion of the project?

Given what the area has seen, a project to widen I-35 from 8 to 6 lanes with service roads is pretty significant if you ask me along with adding two new bridges over the river. TxDOT seems to be interested into paying some of the cost in the state of Oklahoma if I'm reading it correctly.

I believe that Texas's involvement is limited to the bridge itself and the adjoining section of I-35 in Cooke County (which is pretty subpar as it is now).

US-82 to Oklahoma exit 1 is 7.4 miles on the money.

Good to know. I believe there will be a net gain of 2 bridges over the red river being 4 bridges in total.

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on July 04, 2021, 05:18:59 PM
The project to widen the I-35 red river bridge along with the rest of the road to Thackerville has received a $50 million dollar federal grant:

QuoteI-35 Red River Bridge Project

In collaboration with the Texas Department of Transportation, this $50 million grant will be used to improve approximately 7.4 miles of I-35 across the Texas and Oklahoma border. The Red River Bridge Project will have significant positive impacts in both Oklahoma and Texas, including within the Chickasaw Nation. The infrastructure that is currently in place was built in the 1960s and can no longer accommodate current traffic volumes of 50,000 vehicles per day.

On March 15, 2021, Cole joined Inhofe in sending a letter to the U.S. Department of Transportation in support of this funding for the I-35 Red River Project.

https://cole.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/oklahoma-awarded-100-million-in-competitive-highway-grants

This is a pretty significant project for southern Oklahoma. It will be great when I-35 is six lanes from OKC to Dallas. Hopefully OkDOT starts planning for widening I-35 to six lanes from Norman to Thackerville soon.

Will this grant mean that I-35 will actually be widened to six lanes from the Red River Bridge to Thackerville?  I couldn't tell by the press release.  If Texas gets involved it would be nice if that sharp curve immediately south of the bridge could be realigned.

Quote from: dchristy on July 06, 2021, 08:00:14 PM

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on July 04, 2021, 05:18:59 PM
The project to widen the I-35 red river bridge along with the rest of the road to Thackerville has received a $50 million dollar federal grant:

QuoteI-35 Red River Bridge Project

In collaboration with the Texas Department of Transportation, this $50 million grant will be used to improve approximately 7.4 miles of I-35 across the Texas and Oklahoma border. The Red River Bridge Project will have significant positive impacts in both Oklahoma and Texas, including within the Chickasaw Nation. The infrastructure that is currently in place was built in the 1960s and can no longer accommodate current traffic volumes of 50,000 vehicles per day.

On March 15, 2021, Cole joined Inhofe in sending a letter to the U.S. Department of Transportation in support of this funding for the I-35 Red River Project.

https://cole.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/oklahoma-awarded-100-million-in-competitive-highway-grants

This is a pretty significant project for southern Oklahoma. It will be great when I-35 is six lanes from OKC to Dallas. Hopefully OkDOT starts planning for widening I-35 to six lanes from Norman to Thackerville soon.

Will this grant mean that I-35 will actually be widened to six lanes from the Red River Bridge to Thackerville?  I couldn't tell by the press release.  If Texas gets involved it would be nice if that sharp curve immediately south of the bridge could be realigned.

That's a good question. Some articles imply yes it will be widened to Thackerville others make it seem it will only be widened to the first interchange on the Oklahoma side.

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on July 05, 2021, 06:03:51 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2021, 07:48:41 PM

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on July 04, 2021, 06:35:31 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2021, 05:57:35 PM
Less significant than you might think–this isn't the first step in a planned widening all the way from Texas to Norman. Notice which tribe was name-checked in the press release? Guess which one Cole is a member of? Guess who owns the casino where the widening stops, and who contributed money toward the Oklahoma portion of the project?

Given what the area has seen, a project to widen I-35 from 8 to 6 lanes with service roads is pretty significant if you ask me along with adding two new bridges over the river. TxDOT seems to be interested into paying some of the cost in the state of Oklahoma if I'm reading it correctly.

I believe that Texas's involvement is limited to the bridge itself and the adjoining section of I-35 in Cooke County (which is pretty subpar as it is now).

US-82 to Oklahoma exit 1 is 7.4 miles on the money.

Good to know. I believe there will be a net gain of 2 bridges over the red river being 4 bridges in total.

Nope. They are only keeping one of the existing bridges to serve the frontage road (I think the western one). IIRC, it will be 8 lanes to Exit 1 then 6 lanes to Exit 3. I will see if I can find the plans again.

There is no reason why they can not slide the other bridge over so that they can have two new Main Bridges and two Frontage Road Bridges.

How do you "slide over" an existing bridge?

Are they widening the existing Bridge?

Quote from: dchristy on July 06, 2021, 08:00:14 PM

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on July 04, 2021, 05:18:59 PM
The project to widen the I-35 red river bridge along with the rest of the road to Thackerville has received a $50 million dollar federal grant:

QuoteI-35 Red River Bridge Project

In collaboration with the Texas Department of Transportation, this $50 million grant will be used to improve approximately 7.4 miles of I-35 across the Texas and Oklahoma border. The Red River Bridge Project will have significant positive impacts in both Oklahoma and Texas, including within the Chickasaw Nation. The infrastructure that is currently in place was built in the 1960s and can no longer accommodate current traffic volumes of 50,000 vehicles per day.

On March 15, 2021, Cole joined Inhofe in sending a letter to the U.S. Department of Transportation in support of this funding for the I-35 Red River Project.

https://cole.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/oklahoma-awarded-100-million-in-competitive-highway-grants

This is a pretty significant project for southern Oklahoma. It will be great when I-35 is six lanes from OKC to Dallas. Hopefully OkDOT starts planning for widening I-35 to six lanes from Norman to Thackerville soon.

Will this grant mean that I-35 will actually be widened to six lanes from the Red River Bridge to Thackerville?  I couldn't tell by the press release.  If Texas gets involved it would be nice if that sharp curve immediately south of the bridge could be realigned.

It looks like it will be widened to 8 lanes to Merle Wolfe or Red River RD(whatever that road parallel to I-35 is) and then six lanes to Rodgers RD.

https://www.odot.org/projmgmt/poi/Division%207/Project%20Status%20Report%20-%20I-35%20Love%20Co%2033481(04)31896(04).pdf

(https://i.imgur.com/Hl2ECN8.jpg)

I-35 south of Pauls Valley.  We were speeding up at the time.

First time I've seen a zipper merge in Oklahoma.

OHP will need to start enforcing zipper merge or at least watching zipper merge areas and nabbing those who take up two lanes to prevent people from passing. It is one of the most annoying things I see on the road and I'm not even one of those who tried to jump in front. I was almost sideswiped by some prick who tried to block me on a perfectly legal zipper merge and we had words.

I've noticed New Mexico is really going crazy with zipper merging(which is awesome) and has multiple reminder signs that tell people to maintain speed and stay in lane until it the final merging point.

At this Oklahoma location, they used a portable VMS to say "TAKE TURNS / AT MERGE".

Quote from: kphoger on July 09, 2021, 04:46:35 PM
At this Oklahoma location, they used a portable VMS to say "TAKE TURNS / AT MERGE".

I believe NM was pretty much the same I don't remember exactly what it said. They had about 2-3 of them in a mile before the final merging point.

Quote from: Bobby5280 on July 08, 2021, 01:27:08 PM
How do you "slide over" an existing bridge?

They did this  (https://abc-utc.fiu.edu/mc-events/missouri-dots-2018-poplar-street-bridge-lateral-slide/)in St Louis with the I-55 bridge over the Mississippi (better known as the Poplar St Bridge)

Took a quick trip yesterday from Norman to the northern outskirts of the DFW area, then back to Norman. Sign replacement is underway on the southern 55 miles of I-35 (from the Red River to OK 7). A couple notes:

- The "EAST 40" error sign (sign where the exit tab said EAST 40 instead of EXIT 40) has been replaced and corrected on I-35 SB
- This project replaced some signs that were less than 10 years old, mainly in Ardmore & Marietta
- The overhead sign bridges in Ardmore are being replaced with monotubes. Some monotubes are already up but only one had signs attached to it. However, in typical Oklahoma fashion, there's an error...
- Monotube sign bridge on I-35 NB is at Exit 31A (former OK 199 East). Advance signage for the OK 142 exit is also posted. the sign should say OK 142 East TO OK 199, but the shields were switched, so it says OK 199 East TO OK 142. OK 199 used to start at I-35 and ran east, directly through Ardmore, but the western end was truncated to OK 142 (the Ardmore NE "bypass") a couple years ago.
- Many distance signs on I-35 NB now list Norman and Oklahoma City (plus the nearest city/town to the sign). Previously, Norman wasn't on any distance signs until past Pauls Valley (Exit 72, well north of the northern extent of the sign replacements).
- Speaking of distance signs, the new sign sizes are smaller than what they replaced.
- Yesterday afternoon on the trip back, work crews were installing new signs near Exit 55 (OK 7) on I-35 NB
- For the exits with new signage, advanced signs have also been added for 2 miles and 1/2 mile. Previously, there were just signs for 1 mile out, then at the exit.

Pictures can be seen here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/okroads/albums/72157719536478671 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/okroads/albums/72157719536478671)

Quote from: okroads on July 13, 2021, 03:50:59 PM
Took a quick trip yesterday from Norman to the northern outskirts of the DFW area, then back to Norman. Sign replacement is underway on the southern 55 miles of I-35 (from the Red River to OK 7). A couple notes:

- The "EAST 40" error sign (sign where the exit tab said EAST 40 instead of EXIT 40) has been replaced and corrected on I-35 SB
- This project replaced some signs that were less than 10 years old, mainly in Ardmore & Marietta
- The overhead sign bridges in Ardmore are being replaced with monotubes. Some monotubes are already up but only one had signs attached to it. However, in typical Oklahoma fashion, there's an error...
- Monotube sign bridge on I-35 NB is at Exit 31A (former OK 199 East). Advance signage for the OK 142 exit is also posted. the sign should say OK 142 East TO OK 199, but the shields were switched, so it says OK 199 East TO OK 142. OK 199 used to start at I-35 and ran east, directly through Ardmore, but the western end was truncated to OK 142 (the Ardmore NE "bypass") a couple years ago.
- Many distance signs on I-35 NB now list Norman and Oklahoma City (plus the nearest city/town to the sign). Previously, Norman wasn't on any distance signs until past Pauls Valley (Exit 72, well north of the northern extent of the sign replacements).
- Speaking of distance signs, the new sign sizes are smaller than what they replaced.
- Yesterday afternoon on the trip back, work crews were installing new signs near Exit 55 (OK 7) on I-35 NB
- For the exits with new signage, advanced signs have also been added for 2 miles and 1/2 mile. Previously, there were just signs for 1 mile out, then at the exit.

Pictures can be seen here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/okroads/albums/72157719536478671 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/okroads/albums/72157719536478671)

Did you notice if they corrected the series of BGS's at the OK32 Marietta exit? That 'JCT' on all of them is grating.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51337461195_af06101a3e_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mdvUDi)

Quote from: rte66man on July 26, 2021, 10:19:58 AM

Did you notice if they corrected the series of BGS's at the OK32 Marietta exit? That 'JCT' on all of them is grating.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51337461195_af06101a3e_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mdvUDi)

They have not.  I actually called the local ODOT engineer overseeing the project to let him know of a typo on a distance sign (Gainsville...) about a year ago, and mentioned the JCT issue at SH 32 then.  He said he thought the JCT was there because it was a full intersection, but I pointed out SH 7 was a full intersection and has never had the JCT added.  He agreed, but I don't think he followed up on it.  I get it, the guy is probably busy.  This signage project has dragged on for more than a year now.  At least they're replacing Clearview with Gothic  :)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51308187629_88da64f73d_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2maVSCD)
Photo (https://flic.kr/p/2maVSCD) by Eric Stuve (https://www.flickr.com/photos/okroads/), on Flickr

To that ODOT engineer–if SH-32 didn't junction with I-35 there wouldn't be a sign there at all, now would there?

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 26, 2021, 09:16:38 PM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51308187629_88da64f73d_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2maVSCD)
Photo (https://flic.kr/p/2maVSCD) by Eric Stuve (https://www.flickr.com/photos/okroads/), on Flickr

To that ODOT engineer–if SH-32 didn't junction with I-35 there wouldn't be a sign there at all, now would there?

Very true.  That sign has been JCT my whole lifetime, and I'm pulling up on 40.  Goes to show how strong the copy/paste urge is in the sign department.

Lots of renumbering and interstate designation extensions coming to central Oklahoma area:

Taken from OKCTalk:

Turnpikes getting Highway Numbers
Item No. 105 - State Highway System Numbering Revisions — Mr. Swift

a) Removal of the SH-152 Designation between JCT I-44/SH-152 and JCT SH-152/John Kilpatrick TP
b) Addition of a new Designation of I-240 to the above section of SH-152, the John Kilpatrick TP, and
the Kickapoo TP
c) Addition of an I-240 Follow Route on portions of I-44 and I-40
d) Addition of a new Designation of SH-4 to the H.E. Bailey Turnpike — Norman Spur
e) Addition of a new Designation of SH-301 to the Chickasaw Turnpike
f) Addition of a new Designation of SH-312 to the Cimarron Turnpike Spur
g) Addition of a new Designation of SH-375 to the Indian Nation Turnpike

QuoteSecretary of Transportation Tim Gatz will update the commission on the next phase of the modernization effort involving three state transportation agencies, ongoing federal funding discussions in U.S. Congress, and proposed state highway numbering designations at Oklahoma turnpike connections.

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2021/july/august-transportation-commission-meeting-scheduled-for-monday--a.html

I'm surprised the Bailey Spur is becoming a SH-4 extension. Yeah, it makes sense, but I would have guessed they'd go with SH-309.

I-240 extension discussion split off here: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=29867.0

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on July 29, 2021, 11:20:35 PM
Lots of renumbering and interstate designation extensions coming to central Oklahoma area:

Taken from OKCTalk:

Turnpikes getting Highway Numbers
Item No. 105 - State Highway System Numbering Revisions — Mr. Swift

a) Removal of the SH-152 Designation between JCT I-44/SH-152 and JCT SH-152/John Kilpatrick TP
b) Addition of a new Designation of I-240 to the above section of SH-152, the John Kilpatrick TP, and
the Kickapoo TP
c) Addition of an I-240 Follow Route on portions of I-44 and I-40
d) Addition of a new Designation of SH-4 to the H.E. Bailey Turnpike — Norman Spur
e) Addition of a new Designation of SH-301 to the Chickasaw Turnpike
f) Addition of a new Designation of SH-312 to the Cimarron Turnpike Spur
g) Addition of a new Designation of SH-375 to the Indian Nation Turnpike

QuoteSecretary of Transportation Tim Gatz will update the commission on the next phase of the modernization effort involving three state transportation agencies, ongoing federal funding discussions in U.S. Congress, and proposed state highway numbering designations at Oklahoma turnpike connections.

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2021/july/august-transportation-commission-meeting-scheduled-for-monday--a.html

Approved effective immediately (other than I-240, which is pending AASHTO/FHWA approval).

OK 4 is now signed on the H.E. Bailey Norman Spur, at least from I-44. It does not appear to be signed on the spur itself yet.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51656429225_20b2e07802_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mGGGJ6)DSC04009 (https://flic.kr/p/2mGGGJ6) by Eric Stuve (https://www.flickr.com/photos/okroads/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51655567071_a25af5e935_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mGChrn)DSC04010 (https://flic.kr/p/2mGChrn) by Eric Stuve (https://www.flickr.com/photos/okroads/), on Flickr

It's also signed as such from SH-76 (although only on independent-mount shields, the guide signage still just says TURNPIKE).

Those signs look pretty new, so it's kind of a shame that they ended up with a shoehorned-in shield like that. If they had to reuse the same panel, on the exit direction sign, I'd have rather them green out the "H.E. Bailey Spur" line and put the shield there. At least they used the correct arrow this time...

Also, what's with OTA's weird obsession with not posting an exit number at that interchange?

I've seen photos of OK375 signage. I'm not 100% certain on the location; maybe on OK9 US270.

OK 375 signage is up at Hugo, Antlers, and Savanna.  Interestingly, it appears that they have taken the Indian Nation signage down.

Quote from: dchristy on November 07, 2021, 07:56:08 PM
OK 375 signage is up at Hugo, Antlers, and Savanna.  Interestingly, it appears that they have taken the Indian Nation signage down.

Not too unusual; that's what they did when SH-351 and 364 were numbered.

Dec 2021 GMSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.5460631,-96.9674058,3a,15y,192.96h,88.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGXypgbHz7Jx6KPzpfn7nKA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) shows OK301 on the Chickasaw Turnpike.
The OK7 Spur has stayed as-is, leaving a route change mid-pike. One could call this silly & needless, or say there's some merit in having different designations on the free & toll portions.

The 7 Spur designation was silly and needless before 301 was designated; it always should have been 7B.

US-70 will be realigned around Madill with an interim configuration of two lanes with at grade intersections and an ultimate setup of a fully controlled access facility for a few miles:

QuoteThe Oklahoma Department of Transportation is conducting a public hearing to receive comments on the proposed project and the environmental study performed for realignment on US-70 in and around Madill. The project will improve safety, efficiency and travel time through the corridor.

The project consists of a realignment of US-70 half a mile west of US-177 at Mockingbird Lane extending east about 1 mile, crossing US-177 and BNSF railroad, then continuing southwest on a new alignment to SH-199 then south for 3 miles back to US-70 near Archard Rd.

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2022/public-input-needed-on-us-70-realignment-in-madill-.html

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 04, 2022, 04:50:04 PM
US-70 will be realigned around Madill with an interim configuration of two lanes with at grade intersections and an ultimate setup of a fully controlled access facility for a few miles:

QuoteThe Oklahoma Department of Transportation is conducting a public hearing to receive comments on the proposed project and the environmental study performed for realignment on US-70 in and around Madill. The project will improve safety, efficiency and travel time through the corridor.

The project consists of a realignment of US-70 half a mile west of US-177 at Mockingbird Lane extending east about 1 mile, crossing US-177 and BNSF railroad, then continuing southwest on a new alignment to SH-199 then south for 3 miles back to US-70 near Archard Rd.

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2022/public-input-needed-on-us-70-realignment-in-madill-.html

Uhh, how about southeast instead.

Seriously, this trend of ODOT to build out bypasses as 2 lanes with at-grade intersections is troubling.  First Chickasha, now Madill. Odds are they never come back and finish it off.

I thought the bypass around Chickasha was supposed to be a combination of intersections, a couple limited access and others at-grade. It looks like the same design "template" at the Duncan bypass. In the case of the Duncan bypass they've done some spot upgrades since it was built. And there is enough ROW to add a second roadway to make it 4 lanes. The ROW is key for any future upgrade capability. I don't know if the Madill bypass will be built like that.

Quote from: rte66man on May 04, 2022, 06:51:01 PM

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 04, 2022, 04:50:04 PM
US-70 will be realigned around Madill with an interim configuration of two lanes with at grade intersections and an ultimate setup of a fully controlled access facility for a few miles:

QuoteThe Oklahoma Department of Transportation is conducting a public hearing to receive comments on the proposed project and the environmental study performed for realignment on US-70 in and around Madill. The project will improve safety, efficiency and travel time through the corridor.

The project consists of a realignment of US-70 half a mile west of US-177 at Mockingbird Lane extending east about 1 mile, crossing US-177 and BNSF railroad, then continuing southwest on a new alignment to SH-199 then south for 3 miles back to US-70 near Archard Rd.

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2022/public-input-needed-on-us-70-realignment-in-madill-.html

Uhh, how about southeast instead.

Seriously, this trend of ODOT to build out bypasses as 2 lanes with at-grade intersections is troubling.  First Chickasha, now Madill. Odds are they never come back and finish it off.

Here's the study (https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/odot/meetings/a2022/220427/2022%20FINAL%20EA%2018835(04)(09).pdf) with a map of the bypass.

Personally, I don't think anything more than a 2-lane bypass is justified at present. Not every bypass needs to be built as a freeway; freeways and interchanges are expensive and may not justify the expense to the taxpayers. This bypass will get much of the thru truck traffic out of Madill. As Bobby stated, it's important to make sure the ROW is adequate so that an improved four-lane expressway or better can be built if future trends warrant it. I'll also add it's as important to prevent any driveways or new streets connecting to the new bypass and I would recommend that citizens include that in their input. Doing these simple, oft-neglected, steps will save taxpayers in the long run.

^^^ as long as ODOT preserves the ROW and doesn't allow for development to encroach and make a future upgrade more costly due to poor planning then I'm all for it.

Quote from: skluth on May 05, 2022, 03:48:10 PM

Quote from: rte66man on May 04, 2022, 06:51:01 PM

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 04, 2022, 04:50:04 PM
US-70 will be realigned around Madill with an interim configuration of two lanes with at grade intersections and an ultimate setup of a fully controlled access facility for a few miles:

QuoteThe Oklahoma Department of Transportation is conducting a public hearing to receive comments on the proposed project and the environmental study performed for realignment on US-70 in and around Madill. The project will improve safety, efficiency and travel time through the corridor.

The project consists of a realignment of US-70 half a mile west of US-177 at Mockingbird Lane extending east about 1 mile, crossing US-177 and BNSF railroad, then continuing southwest on a new alignment to SH-199 then south for 3 miles back to US-70 near Archard Rd.

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2022/public-input-needed-on-us-70-realignment-in-madill-.html

Uhh, how about southeast instead.

Seriously, this trend of ODOT to build out bypasses as 2 lanes with at-grade intersections is troubling.  First Chickasha, now Madill. Odds are they never come back and finish it off.

Here's the study (https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/odot/meetings/a2022/220427/2022%20FINAL%20EA%2018835(04)(09).pdf) with a map of the bypass.

Personally, I don't think anything more than a 2-lane bypass is justified at present. Not every bypass needs to be built as a freeway; freeways and interchanges are expensive and may not justify the expense to the taxpayers. This bypass will get much of the thru truck traffic out of Madill. As Bobby stated, it's important to make sure the ROW is adequate so that an improved four-lane expressway or better can be built if future trends warrant it. I'll also add it's as important to prevent any driveways or new streets connecting to the new bypass and I would recommend that citizens include that in their input. Doing these simple, oft-neglected, steps will save taxpayers in the long run.

A bigger issue with the plans are at the western end. Rather than beginning the bypass further west on 70 and bypassing Oakland to the north, they cheaped out and essentially send it east from the existing OK199 intersection. Of all the intersections needing to be an interchange, that is the one. It doesn't look like they left room for one in the future.

^^^ yeah I kind of see what you're saying now I looked at it more closely. I'm a bit confused by the proposed ROW but it looks like they aren't leaving any room for expansion at the NW part of this project. That leads me to believe maybe they build a future project to bypass Oakland but if that's the case why didn't they route a section around the SW part of Madill? Unless the majority of traffic is continuing north west on US-177.

I think traffic counts are going to start growing faster as Ardmore and Durant continue to see more economic activity coupled with a growing tourism scene at the Arbuckles, Lake Texoma, and SE Oklahoma. Davis and Sulphur are also starting to increased popularity. I've really started to go to Sulphur more and more. They have a really nice hotel there.

My main concern is a Grade Separation for The B.N.S.F. Rail Line, which the current alignment has a tunnel under it. This provides access to both Kingston and Madill with out needing to wait for trains to finish.

It is alarming to read about The Marshall County Bypass being very cheap. The Chickasha Bypass, The Stephens County Bypass, and of course The Unfinished Chickasaw Turnpike. ...

The current plans DO include a Grade Separation for the new alignment also: a bridge over B.N.S.F. Rail Line.

If they do not bypass Oakland, perhaps they shall upgrade the existing corridor. However, a bypass around Oakland would be much easier.

I agree about the Traffic in Murray County also. Time for U.S. 177 to be upgraded.

As of 1/16/23 OTA is actively installing a cable barrier on the southernmost 8 miles of OK-375. Traffic is down to one lane and a reduced speed limit.

Quote from: CoreySamson on January 19, 2023, 03:26:28 PM
As of 1/16/23 OTA is actively installing a cable barrier on the southernmost 8 10 miles of OK-375. Traffic is down to one lane and a reduced speed limit.

They have finished the barrier on the 7 southernmost miles of the project as of yesterday. It looks like they only have about 3 more to go before this project is complete.

A project to add two ramps completing the diamond interchange at US-60 and Main St. in Durant is scheduled to start construction in 2025:

https://us70-durant-poe.hub.arcgis.com/

Looking at the map, the interchange in question is of a "super two" with the old alignment.  Wonder why they just don't double barrel the eastern part of that southern Durant bypass, while they're doing this?   

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 06, 2023, 03:51:14 PM
A project to add two ramps completing the diamond interchange at US-60 70 and Main St. in Durant is scheduled to start construction in 2025:

https://us70-durant-poe.hub.arcgis.com/

ftfy

Mods, just a suggestion, but maybe this thread should be merged with the pinned Oklahoma thread.

Anywho, US-70 over the Lake Texoma is slated to be replaced with construction starting in 2029.

Here is the project link: https://us70laketexoma.transportationplanroom.com/home

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 30, 2023, 08:47:54 AM
Mods, just a suggestion, but maybe this thread should be merged with the pinned Oklahoma thread.

Anywho, US-70 over the Lake Texoma is slated to be replaced with construction starting in 2029.

Here is the project link: https://us70laketexoma.transportationplanroom.com/home

I didn't thnk they had the funding all lined up for this. It won't be cheap.

Quote from: rte66man on June 30, 2023, 02:16:25 PM

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 30, 2023, 08:47:54 AM
Mods, just a suggestion, but maybe this thread should be merged with the pinned Oklahoma thread.

Anywho, US-70 over the Lake Texoma is slated to be replaced with construction starting in 2029.

Here is the project link: https://us70laketexoma.transportationplanroom.com/home

I didn't thnk they had the funding all lined up for this. It won't be cheap.

They claim construction starts in 2029 so I'd assume they would have the funding but maybe it'll be pushed back knowing ODOT.

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 30, 2023, 08:47:54 AM
Mods, just a suggestion, but maybe this thread should be merged with the pinned Oklahoma thread.

Anywho, US-70 over the Lake Texoma is slated to be replaced with construction starting in 2029.

Here is the project link: https://us70laketexoma.transportationplanroom.com/home

This project has a public hearing today at 6pm(central time).

Quote from: rte66man on June 30, 2023, 02:16:25 PM

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 30, 2023, 08:47:54 AM
Mods, just a suggestion, but maybe this thread should be merged with the pinned Oklahoma thread.

Anywho, US-70 over the Lake Texoma is slated to be replaced with construction starting in 2029.

Here is the project link: https://us70laketexoma.transportationplanroom.com/home

I didn't thnk they had the funding all lined up for this. It won't be cheap.

You weren't kidding. It will be in the hundreds of millions. Probably will warrant its own thread at some point. I'm throwing my support behind alt. 4 with the 4 lane new bridge and the old one converted to a bike/pedestrian bridge. 209 million for that one.

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on July 26, 2023, 05:14:59 AM

Quote from: rte66man on June 30, 2023, 02:16:25 PM

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 30, 2023, 08:47:54 AM
Mods, just a suggestion, but maybe this thread should be merged with the pinned Oklahoma thread.

Anywho, US-70 over the Lake Texoma is slated to be replaced with construction starting in 2029.

Here is the project link: https://us70laketexoma.transportationplanroom.com/home

I didn't thnk they had the funding all lined up for this. It won't be cheap.

You weren't kidding. It will be in the hundreds of millions. Probably will warrant its own thread at some point. I'm throwing my support behind alt. 4 with the 4 lane new bridge and the old one converted to a bike/pedestrian bridge. 209 million for that one.

From the website:

Quote
Currently, ODOT is planning to begin Right-of-Way negotiations in 2025. Construction is currently programmed in 2029, but the project is not fully funded. Because of the high cost of the project, construction is dependent on ODOT identifying additional funding sources. (emphasis added)

I thought so.

Are we talking tolling?