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Regional Boards => Midwest - Great Lakes => Topic started by: triplemultiplex on February 22, 2011, 03:58:28 PM

Title: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on February 22, 2011, 03:58:28 PM
A couple updates for the ongoing Mitchell Interchange reconstruction and the Zoo Interchange study.

First off in the Mitchell Interchange (I-43/94/894), the long term closure of the ramp following I-43 NB through the interchange (EB->NB physically) has started recently.  This system ramp will be closed for pretty much the rest of the year.  Elsewhere in the project, traffic has been shunted into the future c/d lanes between the Mitchell and College Ave. while the mainline is torn up.  I'm impressed with the area around I-894 and 27th St where they are dropping the grade of the freeway considerably.
NB through the Plainfield Curve, just north of the Mitchell, is in it's final alignment and already a great relief.  Evidence exists for the final lane configuration to get 5 NB lanes coming out of the Mitchell down to 3 by breaking up the Howard and Holt Ave. exits.  Previously, both exits shot off of a c/d lane NB.  Now they have been separated with the Howard Ave. exit by itself and the Holt Ave exit as the starting point for the c/d lane.  Each exit will strip a lane from the freeway NB.

Meanwhile, over at the Zoo Interchange study, WisDOT has released a supplemental DIES with a new alternative for consideration based on feedback from the public.  It's billed as the "reduced impacts" alternative as it takes fewer properties, but still expands the approaching freeways to 8 lanes at a slightly lower design speed.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/sefreeways/zooenviron.htm (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/sefreeways/zooenviron.htm)
There's a PIM next month that I'll probably drop by.  I have a feeling many of the elements from this alternative will make it into the final design.  Most of this new alternative is fairly "oh okay, whatever" with one notable exception; the US 45 interchange with Watertown Plank:
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/zoointrchng/docs/sdeis-ex226.pdf (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/zoointrchng/docs/sdeis-ex226.pdf)
It would turn this boring ol' diamond interchange into a totally free-flow parclo by incorporating the same hairpin ramps that are going in at I-43/894 and 27th St.  It's very interesting.  I think WisDOT's been getting a lot of feedback from people concerned about access to the large medical campus immediately east of there.  It's an interesting solution, but I'm worried about the spacing between Watertown Plank and Bluemound Rd.  If they were the braid ramps from these two interchanges, we might have a winner.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: hobsini2 on February 25, 2011, 07:39:24 AM
At the Zoo Interchange, I haven't heard yet, is WDOT straightening out the through lanes for NB 45?  That slight S curve is always backed up when I drive up to Oshkosh.
As far as the Marquette goes, I thought they were done with this project last year.
And while I am at it, what is the timetable for the Airport Spur ramps to be finished?
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on February 25, 2011, 11:26:04 AM
At the Zoo Interchange, I haven't heard yet, is WDOT straightening out the through lanes for NB 45?  That slight S curve is always backed up when I drive up to Oshkosh.
As far as the Marquette goes, I thought they were done with this project last year.
And while I am at it, what is the timetable for the Airport Spur ramps to be finished?

From what I am seeing in those drawings, yes, US 45 (future I-57?) through that interchange will be straightened out to roughly follow the routing of the present-day southbound side.  One thing that I would definitely bring up in the design hearings is that eastbound left lane drop/traffic shift on I-94 by State Fair Park.  All four of the mainline lanes should continue through.  Ditto the left lane add on the westbound side there.  WisDOT had to fix an identical silly left lane drop on eastbound I-94 in Brookfield a few years ago, too.

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on February 28, 2011, 07:18:46 PM
Busy time for I-94 around here.  We've got ourselves a little repaving this year.
http://repave94.org/ (http://repave94.org/)
Brookfield and Waukesha are getting a fresh coat as well as the area through the Stadium Interchange.  So watch out for that if the Brewer game you're at goes into extras.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: hobsini2 on March 03, 2011, 02:51:11 PM
That's why i like using Miller Park Way from National Ave to get to the ballpark.  And leaving I always use Wisconsin Ave and find my way to 94 East and use 794 (Hoan Bridge) just to scare the hell out of my friend.  He has a fear of high bridges.  I found that out on a roadtrip to Penn State when we used the Chicago Skyway. :)
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Stephane Dumas on March 03, 2011, 07:05:49 PM
Alternative 1 for US-45 got a interesting use of service roads system
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/zoointrchng/docs/sdeis-ex216.pdf
Alternative 3 include even a roundabout for one of the ramp and connectors streets
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/zoointrchng/docs/sdeis-ex218.pdf
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on March 24, 2011, 04:59:02 PM
Visited WisDOT's PIM this week about the Zoo Interchange.  It sounds like the "reduced impacts" alternative is receiving the most positive feedback. (see link in thread's first post)
And by and large I'd have to agree that it's the best one.  The complicated series of ramps and frontage roads along US 45 north of the Zoo in the other alternatives seem like overkill.  Plus, I'm starting to dig the wild parclo at Watertown Plank.  My only concern with the R.I. Alt is the spacing between service ramps in a couple spots.  Graphics on display indicated interchange would operate at LOS D or better during normal peak conditions with the R.I. Alt.  At this point, I'd expect the final design to closely resemble the R.I. Alt.

In talking with one of the engineers, one of the bigger complicating factors in working with this interchange is rail-related.  The rail-trail corridor that parallels I-94 in this area requires that they make bridges high enough to accommodate a hypothetical conversion back to rail, regardless of how unlikely it may be. That restricts what they can do in the Z-axis, so to speak.  It also ads cost.  This is despite a total lack of precedent for a rail trail going back to rail.  In my opinion, if trains ever run on these tracks again, it'll probably be some commuter rail that at least doesn't have the same vertical clearance requirements as freight tracks.
The engineer also commented on how "fun" it is to come up with a way to replace the UP railroad bridge over I-94 in the project area.

Speaking to Mike's point about a left lane drop; I did not notice any instance of that in any of the displays.

Lastly, I should mention that the engineer I talked to was actual a UW basketball player back when they made the Final Four like 10 years ago.  I only found this out after I had left, which is probably for the better.  I'd hate to keep a guy from his job.  (Go Badgers tonight!)
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: froggie on March 24, 2011, 07:52:01 PM
Quote
This is despite a total lack of precedent for a rail trail going back to rail.  In my opinion, if trains ever run on these tracks again, it'll probably be some commuter rail that at least doesn't have the same vertical clearance requirements as freight tracks.

Can't think of any post-construction cases offhand, but there's at least 2 planning cases I know of, one in Minneapolis, another in the DC suburbs.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: ToledoRoadgeek on April 02, 2011, 11:55:38 AM
Visited WisDOT's PIM this week about the Zoo Interchange.  It sounds like the "reduced impacts" alternative is receiving the most positive feedback. (see link in thread's first post)
And by and large I'd have to agree that it's the best one.  The complicated series of ramps and frontage roads along US 45 north of the Zoo in the other alternatives seem like overkill.  Plus, I'm starting to dig the wild parclo at Watertown Plank.  My only concern with the R.I. Alt is the spacing between service ramps in a couple spots.  Graphics on display indicated interchange would operate at LOS D or better during normal peak conditions with the R.I. Alt.  At this point, I'd expect the final design to closely resemble the R.I. Alt.

In talking with one of the engineers, one of the bigger complicating factors in working with this interchange is rail-related.  The rail-trail corridor that parallels I-94 in this area requires that they make bridges high enough to accommodate a hypothetical conversion back to rail, regardless of how unlikely it may be. That restricts what they can do in the Z-axis, so to speak.  It also ads cost.  This is despite a total lack of precedent for a rail trail going back to rail.  In my opinion, if trains ever run on these tracks again, it'll probably be some commuter rail that at least doesn't have the same vertical clearance requirements as freight tracks.
The engineer also commented on how "fun" it is to come up with a way to replace the UP railroad bridge over I-94 in the project area.

Speaking to Mike's point about a left lane drop; I did not notice any instance of that in any of the displays.

Lastly, I should mention that the engineer I talked to was actual a UW basketball player back when they made the Final Four like 10 years ago.  I only found this out after I had left, which is probably for the better.  I'd hate to keep a guy from his job.  (Go Badgers tonight!)

Driven through this interchange quite a few times on the way to MN.  In looking at the aerials for the "reduced impacts" plan, it looks like I-94 narrows to 2 lanes in each direction through the interchange.  I was just curious if they were planning on leaving room for a future third lane or HOV/HOT lane in each direction?  Seems to me like that would leave a pretty nasty bottleneck, but you live there so you would know better than I.

Quote
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Revive 755 on April 02, 2011, 09:36:27 PM
Couple comments from a trip to the Milwaukee area today:

* The WI 794 freeway/Lake Parkway has got to be one of the worst speed traps in the country; seriously, that route can easily be posted at 55, not 40.

* There's about as much redevelopment along I-794 as there is in the old Park Freeway East corridor.  It might have helped if I took an old map with me to be sure, but I think a lot of the corridor was still open.  In any case, the traffic signal timing for the replacement street is appalling, as is the font on one of the street signs.

* Whoever is in charge of construction that blocked access to the ramp near Marquette Interchange to WB I-94 did not bother to cover up all the signs directing traffic to this ramp.

* WB I-94 west of the US 41 interchange was awfully congested for a Saturday (most likely from the construction).

* The ramp meters around Milwaukee are a bit irritating, especially on I-94 west of I-894.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on April 04, 2011, 02:42:27 PM
In looking at the aerials for the "reduced impacts" plan, it looks like I-94 narrows to 2 lanes in each direction through the interchange.  I was just curious if they were planning on leaving room for a future third lane or HOV/HOT lane in each direction?  Seems to me like that would leave a pretty nasty bottleneck, but you live there so you would know better than I.

As was the case when the Marquette Interchange was rebuilt, WisDOT will be leaving room for 6 lanes on I-94 through the interchange. They might be able to to get away with 4 lanes in the near term as most of the delays the Zoo Interchange experiences are due to merging traffic.

Quote from: Revive 755
Whoever is in charge of construction that blocked access to the ramp near Marquette Interchange to WB I-94 did not bother to cover up all the signs directing traffic to this ramp.
Where is that specifically?  Is this the entrance from 2nd St? 

Quote from: Revive 755
There's about as much redevelopment along I-794 as there is in the old Park Freeway East corridor.  It might have helped if I took an old map with me to be sure, but I think a lot of the corridor was still open.  In any case, the traffic signal timing for the replacement street is appalling, as is the font on one of the street signs.

McKinley Ave replaced the Park East Spur and I am quite familiar with the signal timing and the sluggish redevelopment of the land.  Currently, only two buildings occupy space once used by the freeway; the Kern Center on the Milwaukee School of Engineering campus and a hotel on the west bank of the river.  The one thing those parcels have in common is they were not under the control of Milwaukee County after the razing of the Park East.  Another parcel has been approved for use as a parking structure for MSOE with an athletic field atop it.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Revive 755 on April 04, 2011, 06:18:52 PM
Quote from: Revive 755
Whoever is in charge of construction that blocked access to the ramp near Marquette Interchange to WB I-94 did not bother to cover up all the signs directing traffic to this ramp.
Where is that specifically?  Is this the entrance from 2nd St?

No, the ramp near the Lovell-Clybourn intersection.

 
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: on_wisconsin on April 07, 2011, 01:59:27 AM
Quote
City gives I-94 work cold shoulder
Barrett wants to nip any idea for wider freeway
(http://media.jsonline.com/images/ZOOINTER07G.jpg)

By Tom Held of the Journal Sentinel

In the eyes of Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett and other top city leaders, the broad shoulders in the plans for rebuilding I-94 near Miller Park look like an attempt to muscle forward an expansion of the east-west freeway.

Two top officials in the city Department of Public Works have asked that the super-sized shoulders - 18 feet wide compared with the standard 12 feet - be removed from the state's plans to rebuild the Zoo Interchange, and the mayor backed that request in an interview.

"We are concerned about this whole notion of 18-foot shoulders," Barrett said. "We don't want a backdoor waiver from the federal government to allow them to transform them into lanes.

"We want to be vocal and consistent and raise the issue right now."

Barrett, neighborhood groups and the Milwaukee Common Council have long opposed expansion of the freeway between the Zoo Interchange on the western edge of the city and the Marquette Interchange downtown.

In 2002, the council adopted a resolution opposing expansion of that section of freeway.

In 2009, however, engineers from the state Department of Transportation put forward a plan to expand I-94 to eight lanes - four in each direction - from 70th St. to 124th St. It was one of the favored alternatives for the Zoo Interchange reconstruction, and the most expensive, with a price tag of $2.3 billion.

It also required removal of 39 properties, including homes and businesses along I-94.

The draft plan made the case that eight lanes would be necessary to reduce congestion on a portion of freeway that carries roughly 150,000 to 175,000 vehicles a day, based on DOT figures.

That plan was delayed by Gov. Jim Doyle, who put little money into the project in his 2009-'11 budget.

Under Gov. Scott Walker, the DOT shaved the Interchange reconstruction cost to $1.7 billion, in large part by keeping the east-west freeway six lanes, with the wider shoulders built in to provide for future expansion. The shoulders would be on the median side of the freeway.

In the revised interchange plans, Interstate 894/Highway 45 would be expanded to eight lanes in the preferred option, now under consideration.

The letter objecting to the super-sized shoulders was sent by City Engineer Jeffrey Polenske and Commissioner of Public Works Jeffrey Mantes, as part of the public comment on the alternatives presented by the DOT last month.

The city officials noted that the option including the wide shoulders would require demolition of an eight-unit apartment complex on Chester St., near N. 92nd St., and push the freeway closer to other homes and businesses. They suggested the DOT follow an alternate plan: three lanes in each direction on I-94 with frontage roads between 76th and 84th streets, serving as part of the freeway exit and entrance ramps.

That would incorporate a Texas U-turn design for the interchange at 84th St.

"It's been my position and the city's long-held position, we don't want neighborhoods, cemeteries or businesses disturbed," Barrett said.

In their letter, Polenske and Mantes also asked that the DOT incorporate a transit option and "take a more proactive role in the development of intercity rapid and express transit service in the region."

A spokeswoman for the DOT said the recommendations from city officials would be considered, along with the other comments provided as part of the public hearings.

Bob Gutierrez, Zoo Interchange project director with the DOT, said the expanded shoulders would be vital for traffic flow during the reconstruction project. In addition, they also could be used for an added traffic lane if and when that became necessary.

In an earlier interview, Transportation Secretary Mark Gottlieb said the alternative shared in March was responsive to the objections of the local residents, reduced the footprint of the freeway, yet provided an option for expansion if necessary.

"We have the ability to be expansive in the future," he said.

With regard to transit, Gottlieb repeated that the responsibility to develop public transit rested with local governments and regional transit authorities. Adding buses or light rail would not alleviate the need to improve and possibly expand the freeway, he said.

Now that the public comment period has closed, the DOT can complete its preferred option for the Zoo Interchange work and submit its plans to the Federal Highway Administration.

If approved, the construction would start on local streets in 2013 and 2014. The major rebuilding of the state's busiest interchange would start in 2015 and finish in 2018.


http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/119372674.html (http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/119372674.html)
:pan:
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on May 14, 2011, 01:02:46 PM
No surprise here.  The Reduced Impacts Alternative for the Zoo Interchange is WisDOT's preferred alternative:
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_2688.html_786229440.html (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_2688.html_786229440.html)

Looks like WisDOT has the url "zooic.org" reserved for the project.  Though right now it just redirects to the study's page.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SSOWorld on May 31, 2011, 07:58:58 PM
They sure like the u-shaped ramps.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Stephane Dumas on June 03, 2011, 05:11:15 PM
They sure like the u-shaped ramps.

I wonder if a SPUI or a diverging diamond for this interchange at Waterdown Plank Rd would have enough capacity at this location?

The reduced impact variant might have some inconviences in the more long-term. One advantage of a service road would had put the local traffic going from US-18 to Waterdown Plank road separate from the main freeway lanes. Oh well...

Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on June 28, 2011, 04:58:41 PM
WisDOT wrapped up the paving & bridge re-decking on I-94 (East-West Freeway portion) this week just in time for Summerfest.  WB has been particularly gnarly during this project as all traffic coming out of the Marquette interchange was crammed into two lanes by 25th St.  It's noteworthy that the two segments repaved this year (and next) flank the project limits for the Zoo Interchange.

EB 94 gets the same treatment next year in Milwaukee County.

Also this week, there's a minor shift down in the Mitchell Interchange for SB traffic as they move on to temporary ramps.  The interesting thing is the map WisDOT has:
http://www.plan94.org/assets/i94/documents/Mitchell_IC_construction_update_2B2C_052511.pdf (http://www.plan94.org/assets/i94/documents/Mitchell_IC_construction_update_2B2C_052511.pdf)
If you pay attention to the background map (the grey) it's actually some sort of staging map that shows the temporary alignments of the NB->WB & EB->SB ramps and the half complete Layton Ave. interchange.
Pretty cool.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: InterstateNG on June 28, 2011, 07:44:57 PM
I drove through that eastbound on Saturday afternoon.  Surprisingly slow.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: JREwing78 on October 02, 2011, 12:43:14 AM
A curiosity I found on the I-94 North-South project in Milwaukee: Brand-new concrete overlaid with asphalt. Check out the pictures of the progress at Grange Ave: http://dailyreporter.com/i-94-slideshow/
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: OCGuy81 on October 02, 2011, 01:35:41 PM
I always found Milwaukee to be an easy city to navigate, and it appears to have a nice freeway system for a city of its size.  One of the nicer things I've seen was on the 94/43 before the curves near the Mitchell Interchange.  There is a speed limit sign that will flash a warning "Too Fast for Curve" if that's indeed how the person is driving.

That'd be nice in some areas of southern California....though I'm sure easily ignored!
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on October 03, 2011, 06:56:07 PM
That sign will no longer be needed as WisDOT smooths out that curve.  In fact, it's been taken down already while the SB lanes get rebuilt near Howard Ave.  But there's another one SB on I-43 at North Ave.

This week there was a big checkpoint on the road to completing the Mitchell Interchange.  The new ramps for NB->WB and EB->SB opened along with most of the C/D lanes between College Ave and Layton.  They have yet to open on their connection back to I-43/94 north of Layton, however, resulting in some temporary detours for traffic between the airport and downtown.  By year's end, though, the core of the new interchange will be done with all system ramps open.

One cool aspect of the new system ramps is rather than traditional bridges, the ramps pass over and under each other in cut-and-cover-tunnels.  Very cool way to work within the existing footprint.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Jordanah1 on October 13, 2011, 06:16:32 PM
does anyone know if there are any plans for reconstruction/expansion of US45/US41 north of Burleigh st? most of that roadway is in pretty rough shape, and there is often congestion north of the US41/US45 split near richfield. is there any plans/talks about even resurfacing this strech?
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on October 18, 2011, 06:32:28 PM
Looks like US 45 between Burleigh & Good Hope is scheduled for resurfacing in the next 3 years.  Aside from that, I don't see any paving or expansion plans before 2016.  That's kind of surprising considering how crummy the pavement is getting through Menomonee Falls and Germantown.

WisDOT is planning to modernize the last of the old service interchanges on US 41 there at WI 144 in Slinger in that time frame, so that'll be nice.  It'd be a good time to decommission that piece of WI 144 southwest of West Bend.

When SEWRPC did their big freeway study some ten years ago, they recommended six lanes for US 41 out to WI 60 (with 8 lanes to Good Hope), but other than that, I know of no plans for more lanes or anything.  And as a person who has joined the caravan of north-bounders on Friday afternoons, I don't really have a problem with that. It only seems like it slows a little through Falls due to the speed limit upping to 65 at the county line despite the freeway maintaining it's urban interchange spacing.  Really it's just a continuation of urban driving conditions up to County Line Road.

What's really inconvenient is losing that 3rd lane SB at WI 145 as if that freeway goes somewhere, only to get it back again at Good Hope.  I'm surprised they didn't let 41/45 keep 3 lanes SB when the Northwest Interchange was rebuilt in 2000.  The overpass at Good Hope is ready and waiting to accommodate such a correction.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on November 18, 2011, 06:29:36 PM
Took a drive through the Mitchell Interchange while doing some errands today.  I needed to check out the tunnel ramp that opened last month for NB->WB.

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n208/triplemultiplex/Mitchell%20Interchange%2018%20Nov%2011/IMG_1621.jpg?t=1321655212)
I got on NB at College Ave to check out the new C/D setup which is pretty much in it's final configuration south of Layton Ave.  Here's the exit for the airport spur.

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n208/triplemultiplex/Mitchell%20Interchange%2018%20Nov%2011/IMG_1623.jpg?t=1321655212)
Here's the split between I-94 and I-894 which is now a full mile south of the actual interchange.  That overpass is Grange Ave.

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n208/triplemultiplex/Mitchell%20Interchange%2018%20Nov%2011/IMG_1629.jpg?t=1321657543)
Here's the entrance to the WB I-894 tunnel underneath I-94.  Note the little cartoony silhouette of Milwaukee's skyline complete with Miller Park and the Mitchell Park Domes on the left and the Art Museum and the US Bank Center on the right with some sailboats.  For the record, such a view of Milwaukee is impossible.

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n208/triplemultiplex/Mitchell%20Interchange%2018%20Nov%2011/IMG_1630.jpg?t=1321657207)
Inside the tunnel, two lanes are currently open.  When finished, there will be 3 lanes here.  Hence the extra space behind the temporary barrier on the left.

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n208/triplemultiplex/Mitchell%20Interchange%2018%20Nov%2011/IMG_1633.jpg?t=1321657724)
Here's the WB entrance ramp from 27th St getting 'decked' out.  This is first of multiple U ramps WisDOT is deploying around Milwaukee in the next decade.

I have more, but don't want to overload the thread.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on November 20, 2011, 09:43:07 AM
That view of Milwaukee is impossible?  It is in the correct order if you look from the south...not to scale though.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on November 21, 2011, 05:59:21 PM
You'd never be able to see all those landmarks from a single vantage like that.  Mostly due to the small height of the Domes and the Art Museum.  Maybe if you were atop a residential high rise in the Bayview neighborhood, but even then the Hoan Bridge would block the art museum.  But from the ground?  Forget about it.

I thought it was ironic that such a picture adorns the entrance to a tunnel that leads one away from Milwaukee.
I'm glad to see WisDOT is continuing with the Brewers-colored freeway structures started in the Marquette rebuild.  That's a concept that should be embraced in other parts of the state.  The new flyovers that will go up in Green Bay would look really sweet with green girders and yellow concrete. ;)
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Brandon on November 21, 2011, 07:40:22 PM
You'd never be able to see all those landmarks from a single vantage like that.  Mostly due to the small height of the Domes and the Art Museum.  Maybe if you were atop a residential high rise in the Bayview neighborhood, but even then the Hoan Bridge would block the art museum.  But from the ground?  Forget about it.

I thought it was ironic that such a picture adorns the entrance to a tunnel that leads one away from Milwaukee.
I'm glad to see WisDOT is continuing with the Brewers-colored freeway structures started in the Marquette rebuild.  That's a concept that should be embraced in other parts of the state.  The new flyovers that will go up in Green Bay would look really sweet with green girders and yellow concrete. ;)

They'd have to place a patrol car car there to keep Bears fans from defacing those.  :-D
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on December 28, 2011, 04:30:40 PM
The ramp for I-43 NB through the Mitchell Interchange opened last week and I snapped some pics of the new tunnel ramp.  So all system movements are now open.

This is the 43/894 split underneath 27th St.  When complete, we'll have 4 EB lanes from Loomis Rd. to this point.
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n208/triplemultiplex/Mitchell%20Interchange%2028%20Dec%2011/IMG_1671.jpg?t=1325106629)

The entrance to the first tunnel bears the same pictographic version of the Milwaukee skyline as NB->WB.  The first tunnel dives under EB->SB and NB->WB ramps.  Only one lane is open for now, but as you can see, it will have two lanes in final configuration.
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n208/triplemultiplex/Mitchell%20Interchange%2028%20Dec%2011/IMG_1675.jpg?t=1325106715)

There's brief gap before the second tunnel under I-94.  Having them in rapid succession reminds me a lot of the I-35 tunnels in Duluth.
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n208/triplemultiplex/Mitchell%20Interchange%2028%20Dec%2011/IMG_1677.jpg?t=1325106715)

With the 27th St. interchange fully open with its trend-setting U-ramps, all that remains in the Mitchell Interchange is completion of mainline I-94 through the interchange area and the north ends of the c/d setup between here and College Ave.  The system ramps are very nice and most drivers won't even have to slow down to navigate them in light traffic.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: OCGuy81 on December 29, 2011, 10:19:41 AM
I really like the airplane on the upper right corner of that BGS!! That's a cool feature, and looks a lot nicer than adding a green tab with an airplane on top of the assembly.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on December 29, 2011, 05:15:28 PM
I really like the airplane on the upper right corner of that BGS!! That's a cool feature, and looks a lot nicer than adding a green tab with an airplane on top of the assembly.
That's been a feature of Milwaukee-area BGS's for as long as I can remember.  When I see the tab version in other cities, my first thought used to be, "Oh they forgot to put it on the original sign and had to add it later."
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on December 29, 2011, 10:25:23 PM
I really like the airplane on the upper right corner of that BGS!! That's a cool feature, and looks a lot nicer than adding a green tab with an airplane on top of the assembly.
That's been a feature of Milwaukee-area BGS's for as long as I can remember.  When I see the tab version in other cities, my first thought used to be, "Oh they forgot to put it on the original sign and had to add it later."

I don't recall seeing such airplane images on Metro Milwaukee BGSs before.  ISTR that BGS directionals to the airport were always spelled out "Gen. Mitchell International Airport".

Also, I had some time off today and drove down to the Milwaukee area to check out the progress on the Mitchell interchange, among other things.  I found it interesting that someone has attached a USA flag to one of the overhead sign bridges on the ramp leading up to the EB to NB tunnels - something that I have DEFINITELY never seen before!.

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on March 02, 2012, 05:03:16 PM
The Southeastern Wisconsin Regional Planning Commission (SEWRPC) is studying a southern extension of the Lake Parkway to WI 100.
http://www.sewrpc.org/SEWRPC/Transportation/LakeParkwayExtensionStudy.htm (http://www.sewrpc.org/SEWRPC/Transportation/LakeParkwayExtensionStudy.htm)

The extension would be physically similar to the existing parkway; 4 lanes w right shoulder, but not much left shoulder, 40 MPH (ha!) SL & restrictions on trucks.  This pdf has a bunch of maps of the rough concept.

http://www.sewrpc.org/SEWRPCFiles/CommissionFiles/CommitteeFiles/2011/2011-11-14-minutes-lpes-att-01.pdf (http://www.sewrpc.org/SEWRPCFiles/CommissionFiles/CommitteeFiles/2011/2011-11-14-minutes-lpes-att-01.pdf)

I attended a PIM for this proposal this week and there seems to be a lot of support in the south shore suburbs.  I and several others talked with some of the folks there about the atrocious jughandle interchange proposed for College Ave.  (FYI, they put it in the SW quadrant because the Post Office was supposed to build a distribution center in what would be the SE quadrant, but now it sounds like that might not happen.) I also brought up the idea of having the cross-streets go over the parkway instead of under so they can also bridge the parallel UP railroad.

Apparently, one of the mayors down there has a long range vision of the Lake Parkway connecting to WI 31 in northern Racine County, in effect creating a much tamer version of the 1960's proposal for the Lake Freeway between Milwaukee and Chicago.

The next step is to hand the project off to WisDOT for preliminary engineering, and development of alternatives since SEWRPC will almost certainly recommend to proceed (SEWRPC is generally regarded as pro-highway).  SEWRPC is accepting public comments for the next two weeks still, so chime in if you like.  See that first URL.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on March 02, 2012, 10:57:00 PM
The Southeastern Wisconsin Regional Planning Commission (SEWRPC) is studying a southern extension of the Lake Parkway to WI 100.
http://www.sewrpc.org/SEWRPC/Transportation/LakeParkwayExtensionStudy.htm (http://www.sewrpc.org/SEWRPC/Transportation/LakeParkwayExtensionStudy.htm)

The extension would be physically similar to the existing parkway; 4 lanes w right shoulder, but not much left shoulder, 40 MPH (ha!) SL & restrictions on trucks.  This pdf has a bunch of maps of the rough concept.

http://www.sewrpc.org/SEWRPCFiles/CommissionFiles/CommitteeFiles/2011/2011-11-14-minutes-lpes-att-01.pdf (http://www.sewrpc.org/SEWRPCFiles/CommissionFiles/CommitteeFiles/2011/2011-11-14-minutes-lpes-att-01.pdf)

I attended a PIM for this proposal this week and there seems to be a lot of support in the south shore suburbs.  I and several others talked with some of the folks there about the atrocious jughandle interchange proposed for College Ave.  (FYI, they put it in the SW quadrant because the Post Office was supposed to build a distribution center in what would be the SE quadrant, but now it sounds like that might not happen.) I also brought up the idea of having the cross-streets go over the parkway instead of under so they can also bridge the parallel UP railroad.

Apparently, one of the mayors down there has a long range vision of the Lake Parkway connecting to WI 31 in northern Racine County, in effect creating a much tamer version of the 1960's proposal for the Lake Freeway between Milwaukee and Chicago.

The next step is to hand the project off to WisDOT for preliminary engineering, and development of alternatives since SEWRPC will almost certainly recommend to proceed (SEWRPC is generally regarded as pro-highway).  SEWRPC is accepting public comments for the next two weeks still, so chime in if you like.  See that first URL.

Isn't the existing WI 794 Lake Parkway open to normal big-rig truck traffic?  Why the need for restrictions farther south?

I noticed the apartment complex that was built on the original Lake Freeway ROW at Rawson Ave.  I'd love to be around if and when that road might someday need upgrading to six lanes!

 :spin:

Also, I agree with your thoughts on College Ave and the other crossroads.  In addition, I would include provisions at WI 100 for a farther southward extension.  Wouldn't a potential WI 31 connection with that be at about the Racine-Kenosha County line?

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Stephane Dumas on March 03, 2012, 03:13:23 PM
For the junction on College Avenue, (we could even include Oklahoma Avenue as well) I taught of the following based a bit on a more or less similar pattern at the junction of PQ-273 with TCH-20 at St-Apolinnaire or the ramps at the junction of PQ-116 with PQ-112 with a railroad close to the "mini-freeway" or "mini-expressway".
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=fr&ll=46.615061,-71.51443&spn=0.005711,0.009645&t=k&z=17
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=fr&ll=45.5074,-73.429613&spn=0.005827,0.009645&t=k&z=17

(http://i.imgur.com/wJtc5.jpg) (http://imgur.com/wJtc5)
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on March 03, 2012, 11:26:32 PM
^^

For the last few years, the USPS was looking at using the vacant land at the SE quadrant of that proposed overcrossing as the site of a new regional mail processing center, but, since those plans may now be up in the air, that might be doable.

The only difference is that I would run College Ave over both the parkway and the railroad.

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on April 29, 2012, 07:41:22 PM
On Wednesday, I attended a PIM for the upcoming Hoan Bridge and Lake Interchange redecking.
The maps they had up are here:
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/794hoan/public.htm (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/794hoan/public.htm)

The meeting was held in the SEWRPC building in downtown which lies in the shadow of the Marquette Interchange on St. Paul Ave.  Damn that thing looks cool from underneath, too.

Starting next fall, WisDOT will redeck the Hoan Bridge completely.  They're taking it down to the steel structure.  They'll do southbound first, be done by Summerfest 2014 then do the northbound lanes after festival season.
WisDOT will be employing a zipper lane during construction with two lanes in the direction of commuter travel, one against.  That should be pretty cool.  They will also construct a temporary ramp on the ground by Lincoln Memorial Drive so traffic can bypass closed bridges in the Lake Interchange; essentially, traffic will exit at Lincoln Memorial and use a temporary ramp to connect to the existing WB entrance ramp.  If you think that WB corner on 794 is tight now, it's got nothing on this temporary setup we'll have.

The Lake Interchange and all the ramps east of the river will be resurfaced while the entrance/exit ramps to/from Jackson & Van Buren Streets will be completely replaced with new bridges.

So that's what's happening starting next year, but a little further on the horizon there might be some interesting stuff going on there.  I showed the redesign I made in the fictional thread to some engineers, but before I did, there were a couple other people there pitching another good idea on what to do with Lake Interchange.  They had a nice rendering of Lincoln Memorial Drive continuing south between the Hoan Bridge ramps and connecting to Harbor Drive.  From there, they proposed that a road continue west over the Milwaukee River via an abandoned railroad r/w and tie into Florida Street in the Walker's Point neighborhood.  Well I thought that was pretty awesome and worked it into my Lake Interchange concept.
So you don't have to hunt for it in the redesigning interchanges thread, here it is:
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n208/triplemultiplex/Interchanges/Lakev2.jpg?t=1335734648)

As for my proposal, the SEWRPC engineers I talked to were reasonably impressed.  Apparently they are kicking around some similar ideas regarding having a single WB entrance/EB exit east of the river rather than two.  They liked how I moved all the ramps to the right side. I get the impression that's something they might not be doing for Jackson/Van Buren Streets since they are rebuilding them completely as-is next year.
Unless I misunderstood, there seems to be talk from the city of eliminating the ramps between Lincoln Memorial Drive and the Hoan Bridge in their ultimate design.  That seems a tad foolish to me as Lincoln Memorial Drive functions very well as an artery for east side neighborhoods.
Regardless, it seems a lot of people are really high on the idea of locating Milwaukee's next great skyscraper at the junction of Lincoln Memorial Drive and Clybourn Avenue.  So this Lake Interchange land that would get freed up by a redesign won't sit vacant for years like the Park East land.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Brandon on April 29, 2012, 08:27:30 PM
^^ I like this redesign.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Revive 755 on April 29, 2012, 10:13:34 PM
Personally, I'd rather keep direct access to/from Lincoln Memorial to/from the E-W portion of I-794 rather than having to sit through a few more poorly coordinated stoplights that seem to stay green for non-existent cross traffic for an eternity (a type of signal that seems quite common in Milwaukee).
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on April 29, 2012, 11:52:07 PM
On Wednesday, I attended a PIM for the upcoming Hoan Bridge and Lake Interchange redecking.
The maps they had up are here:
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/794hoan/public.htm (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/794hoan/public.htm)

The meeting was held in the SEWRPC building in downtown which lies in the shadow of the Marquette Interchange on St. Paul Ave.  Damn that thing looks cool from underneath, too.

Starting next fall, WisDOT will redeck the Hoan Bridge completely.  They're taking it down to the steel structure.  They'll do southbound first, be done by Summerfest 2014 then do the northbound lanes after festival season.
WisDOT will be employing a zipper lane during construction with two lanes in the direction of commuter travel, one against.  That should be pretty cool.  They will also construct a temporary ramp on the ground by Lincoln Memorial Drive so traffic can bypass closed bridges in the Lake Interchange; essentially, traffic will exit at Lincoln Memorial and use a temporary ramp to connect to the existing WB entrance ramp.  If you think that WB corner on 794 is tight now, it's got nothing on this temporary setup we'll have.

The Lake Interchange and all the ramps east of the river will be resurfaced while the entrance/exit ramps to/from Jackson & Van Buren Streets will be completely replaced with new bridges.

So that's what's happening starting next year, but a little further on the horizon there might be some interesting stuff going on there.  I showed the redesign I made in the fictional thread to some engineers, but before I did, there were a couple other people there pitching another good idea on what to do with Lake Interchange.  They had a nice rendering of Lincoln Memorial Drive continuing south between the Hoan Bridge ramps and connecting to Harbor Drive.  From there, they proposed that a road continue west over the Milwaukee River via an abandoned railroad r/w and tie into Florida Street in the Walker's Point neighborhood.  Well I thought that was pretty awesome and worked it into my Lake Interchange concept.
So you don't have to hunt for it in the redesigning interchanges thread, here it is:
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n208/triplemultiplex/Interchanges/Lakev2.jpg?t=1335734648)

As for my proposal, the SEWRPC engineers I talked to were reasonably impressed.  Apparently they are kicking around some similar ideas regarding having a single WB entrance/EB exit east of the river rather than two.  They liked how I moved all the ramps to the right side. I get the impression that's something they might not be doing for Jackson/Van Buren Streets since they are rebuilding them completely as-is next year.
Unless I misunderstood, there seems to be talk from the city of eliminating the ramps between Lincoln Memorial Drive and the Hoan Bridge in their ultimate design.  That seems a tad foolish to me as Lincoln Memorial Drive functions very well as an artery for east side neighborhoods.
Regardless, it seems a lot of people are really high on the idea of locating Milwaukee's next great skyscraper at the junction of Lincoln Memorial Drive and Clybourn Avenue.  So this Lake Interchange land that would get freed up by a redesign won't sit vacant for years like the Park East land.

I like your design quite a bit. Hopefully they work something like that in to whatever they ultimately do. That piece of land is too important for it to be screwed up for another 50 years. I agree with you too, that removing the ramps to Lincoln memorial drive would be dumb.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: DaBigE on April 30, 2012, 01:17:26 AM
Regardless, it seems a lot of people are really high on the idea of locating Milwaukee's next great skyscraper at the junction of Lincoln Memorial Drive and Clybourn Avenue.  So this Lake Interchange land that would get freed up by a redesign won't sit vacant for years like the Park East land.

I'll believe that skyscraper when I see steel going up in the air.  With all the current vacant commercial space downtown, who would be willing to take such a large risk on adding more?  As for the interchange, I also agree that it would be a mistake to not connect with Lincoln Memorial Drive.  That ramp is a nice, efficient way to get people out of the festival grounds in a hurry.  That and it's also very convenient for when I visit my relatives that live on the east side of Milwaukee. :nod:
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on April 30, 2012, 11:56:00 AM
I like those musings, too, but would add roundabouts at Clybourn/Lincoln Memorial and Michigan/Lincoln Memorial.  These would make traffic flow much more smoothly and allow easier access between I-794 to the south and the area around the Summerfest Grounds.

Also, since the Marquette rebuild, I have been thinking of the block bounded by Clybourn, James Lovell (7th), 8th and Michigan, the site of the former Clybourn Ave loop onramp to westbound I-94 in the Marquette interchange, as being the ideal location for a new signature tall building.  We shall see on sites for new signature tall buildings in downtown Milwaukee, assuming that the state's business climate is indeed improving.

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on April 30, 2012, 09:25:47 PM
I'll believe that skyscraper when I see steel going up in the air.  With all the current vacant commercial space downtown, who would be willing to take such a large risk on adding more?

Well I'm assuming any redevelopment would be mixed use with any large tower(s) dominated by residences.  It's been a long time since a high rise has gone up in Milwaukee that was strictly office space.  It's all about mixed use these days; enable 24/7 activity, diversify the revenue streams and such.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on June 14, 2012, 10:01:56 PM
Good news today as WisDOT reopened all lanes of EB I-94 between the Zoo and the Marquette interchanges.  This ends a 2 year project to repave the freeway and redeck a few overpasses in Milwaukee and Waukesha Counties on either side of the looming Zoo Interchange project.

As it happened, I had to drive through the work zone last night and witnessed the final striping operations that wrapped up the project.
So if anyone's coming to a Brewer game or heading to one of the festivals on the lakefront, you now have clear sailing.

Down in the Mitchell Interchange, the SB c/d lane between the Mitchell and College Ave has been open for a month thus re-establishing access from downtown to the airport via freeway.  We're still a month or two away from the completion of the NB c/d lane and the new widest cross-section of freeway in the state of Wisconsin (2-5-2-3 for a couple blocks around Edgerton Ave).
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: hobsini2 on June 16, 2012, 12:41:29 AM
Striping. WOOOHOOO! j/k
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: DaBigE on June 16, 2012, 01:27:54 AM
witnessed the final striping operations that wrapped up the project.

Epoxy with grooved in wet reflective tape, or all grooved tape?  Sorry, hobsini2 sparked my curiosity. :)
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on July 31, 2012, 05:46:50 PM
WisDOT has a new website for the Zoo Interchange reconstruction.

http://projects.511wi.gov/web/zoo-interchange-project (http://projects.511wi.gov/web/zoo-interchange-project)

(http://projects.511wi.gov/image/image_gallery?uuid=14395d80-0696-4079-bd53-4e917a1e3b84&groupId=15899&t=1340846753904)

Unfortunately, the link for a pdf of the whole project is not working yet.  But I've got my copy of the preferred alternative from a few months ago for my reference.

Work on some arterial streets in the area has already begun with more to start after the Wisconsin State Fair.  We'll see the first orange barrels on the freeway next year at US 45 and Swan Blvd.
(http://projects.511wi.gov/image/image_gallery?uuid=9dbfe5a4-2fe3-4c79-b7cf-a5b86da9c41e&groupId=15899&t=1342619390168)
(larger version not yet available :( )

WisDOT also has a new study starting up for the reconstruction of I-43 between Silver Spring Dr and Mequon Rd (WI 167) on the metro area's north side.  They've got some PIM's next week to solicit input from the public.  I'll definitely attend one.

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/43/index.htm (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/43/index.htm)

The area of this project will have to address one of Milwaukee's crappiest bottlenecks; the transition from 3 lanes to 2 NB at Silver Spring Dr.  This could get interesting because rich suburban NIMBY's in these wealthy north shore suburbs have successfully killed expansions in the past.  I think there was/is even a state law that supposedly would prevent expansion through this area.
But it is needed badly.  I avoid rush hour(s) up there whenever possible.  Not only are there capacity issues, but around Good Hope Road it is the shittiest excuse for a freeway in this region.  Everything is severely deficient; sightlines, drainage, bridge clearances, shoulders; it's like your car turned into a Delorean with a flux capacitor and took you back to 1955.  And I need not start in again on the hairpin-tight ramps at Brown Deer Rd. rebuilt as-is c. 2010.  :banghead:
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: nwi_navigator_1181 on July 31, 2012, 09:40:13 PM
If I may ask, how's I-94 looking from the WI/IL state line to the Marquette Interchange? My wife and I are planning a trip up there in September, and I just need to know what to be on the lookout for. I look forward to the ride.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on August 01, 2012, 04:36:34 PM
http://projects.511wi.gov/c/document_library/get_file?uuid=37d818d2-a2bc-4a85-b870-204820e3376a&groupId=15899

Above is a link to pdf of the larger version of Triple's 2nd pic.

Also, new video uploaded by WisDOT showing off the new zoo
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on August 01, 2012, 04:50:51 PM
If I may ask, how's I-94 looking from the WI/IL state line to the Marquette Interchange? My wife and I are planning a trip up there in September, and I just need to know what to be on the lookout for. I look forward to the ride.

The only major slowdown will be around Kenosha where it's down to two lanes in each direction.  Could be more of a problem if you're coming through on a Friday.
There are other spots with construction, (7 mile Rd, Drexel Ave, 6th St) but it's not as disruptive as the stretch between WI 50 and WI 158.
You can always check the project's site for any short term closures as your trip draws near.
http://www.plan94.org/ (http://www.plan94.org/)

If you haven't tried out the new tunnel ramps in the Mitchell Interchange yet, they're worth a little side trip.  You can hit 'em both much easier on your northbound trip.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: nwi_navigator_1181 on August 01, 2012, 10:25:46 PM
So I take it they're doing the expansion in portions versus doing it all at once, like what ISHTA did to the Tri-State Tollway (construction zones in areas where the road is not four lanes in each direction, with stretches up to 30 miles)? I was last in Kenosha in 2008, when the Tri-State reconstruction was in full swing...kinda nightmarish.

As for the Mitchell Interchange tunnels, I will definitely give them a try as I head into the city. Thanks for the tips!
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SSOWorld on August 01, 2012, 11:32:01 PM
That is correct.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on August 02, 2012, 01:25:11 AM
So I take it they're doing the expansion in portions versus doing it all at once, like what ISHTA did to the Tri-State Tollway (construction zones in areas where the road is not four lanes in each direction, with stretches up to 30 miles)? I was last in Kenosha in 2008, when the Tri-State reconstruction was in full swing...kinda nightmarish.

As for the Mitchell Interchange tunnels, I will definitely give them a try as I head into the city. Thanks for the tips!

What happened is that until the early 2000s, the money was earmarked for rebuilding the Zoo Interchange in Milwaukee.  Then when Jim Doyle took office as Governor in early 2003, for various political reasons, that money was pulled from the Zoo Interchange and redirected towards I-94 from Milwaukee to the Illinois state line.  Then, late in Doyle's second term, WisDOT had to begin doing emergency repairs and replacements on several of the Zoo's bridges.  Scott Walker then took office as Governor in early 2011 and one of the first things that he did was to pull the unused money from I-94, allowing the under-construction parts to continue until they were completed, redirecting it back to the much more critical Zoo.

Once the Zoo and a couple of other 'big shovel' projects elsewhere in the state are complete, work will resume on I-94.

I agree with that move in that even though the yet to be done parts of I-94 are threadbare and long overdue for full top-to-bottom reconstruction and upgrading to eight lanes, it is still functioning in adequate safety and capacity while the Zoo is in dire condition, with an ongoing failure threat that could well affect the economy of much of the state north of Milwaukee, including here in Appleton.

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: merrycilantro on August 02, 2012, 09:04:48 AM
The area of this project will have to address one of Milwaukee's crappiest bottlenecks; the transition from 3 lanes to 2 NB at Silver Spring Dr.  This could get interesting because rich suburban NIMBY's in these wealthy north shore suburbs have successfully killed expansions in the past.  I think there was/is even a state law that supposedly would prevent expansion through this area.
But it is needed badly.  I avoid rush hour(s) up there whenever possible.  Not only are there capacity issues, but around Good Hope Road it is the shittiest excuse for a freeway in this region.  Everything is severely deficient; sightlines, drainage, bridge clearances, shoulders; it's like your car turned into a Delorean with a flux capacitor and took you back to 1955.

And from the sounds of it, Highway 41 is supposed to become an Auxiliary/Spur to THAT???!!??! I used to live down there, and travel up I-43 frequently enough to know that 41 is far more superior in design and maintenance than I-43, and they want to make 41 into a step lower than that mess. It's just ironic, IMHO. That's all.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on August 05, 2012, 09:44:29 PM
And from the sounds of it, Highway 41 is supposed to become an Auxiliary/Spur to THAT???!!??! I used to live down there, and travel up I-43 frequently enough to know that 41 is far more superior in design and maintenance than I-43, and they want to make 41 into a step lower than that mess. It's just ironic, IMHO. That's all.

Well nothing is going to physically change on the Zoo Freeway Corridor with the new interstate designation.  Even if we get stuck with a 3di, that's not going to change what US 41/45 looks like through Milwaukee.  The Zoo Interchange rebuild is happening independent of the new interstate and will be a serious improvement.

The Zoo Freeway is much better than I-43 in its study area because it's 20 years newer.  I-43 was built in the 50's (as US 141); the Zoo Freeway was built in the early 70's.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: hobsini2 on August 06, 2012, 01:44:10 PM
I thought the Zoo was older than that. Certainly the way it is designed with the narrow left shoulders and tight exit ramps would lead me to think that.  Still kind of wished the Stadium Freeway was built the way it was supposed to be between I-894 and Fond du Lac Ave. At least the Parkway south of National to Oklahoma is decently built as an alternate to 94 after Brewers games.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on August 06, 2012, 10:08:23 PM
I thought that US 45 and I-894 was built in the mid to late 1960s.

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on August 07, 2012, 06:29:17 PM
Yeah I guess I was off on that.  I thought I remembered that it wasn't done until after 1970, but I was mistaken.  That's what happens when you try and go from memory instead of looking shit up.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on August 10, 2012, 04:56:58 PM
I went to the Glendale PIM for the start of the study on I-43 between Silver Spring Dr. and WI 60 this week.  It reminded me of a similar one I attended years ago at the onset of the Zoo Interchange study/project.  WisDOT was soliciting input on various issues associated with the corridor and I was happy to provide mine.

I pitched the engineers some ideas about Brown Deer Rd and nearby Port Washington Rd interchanges.  They seemed eager to want to fix all of the deficiencies in the area of Good Hope Rd.  A decision on expansion will depend on the outcome of a traffic forecast for 2040 currently underway, but given the performance of this freeway today, it seems inevitable that the study area will be expanded to 6 lanes.  Any construction won't start until 2019 under WisDOT's current timetable.

Most Wisconsin roadgeeks probably know that WisDOT is thinking of adding an interchange to I-43 at Highland Rd so that would be part of this project.  A Highland Rd interchange would better serve a hospital and Concordia University not to mention Highland's crossing of the Milwaukee River.  It might involve some interesting engineering for NB ramps due to the proximity of a UP rail line.

The only other interesting thing I picked up at this PIM is the likelihood of a change in pedestrian access at one point.  Currently, a glorified culvert pipe connects Nicolet High School to an athletic field across the freeway.  Already it seems likely that this will be replaced with a pedestrian overpass both to mitigate safety concerns people have about the 'tunnel' with respect to crime and provide a flatter elevation for I-43 approaching the overpasses at Greentree Rd and Good Hope Rd.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on August 21, 2012, 07:49:12 PM
Just a couple weeks later and I'm reporting on the next Milwaukee area freeway PIM.

This time, it's I-94 between 25th Street and 70th Street including the Stadium Interchange.  Same deal as the last one I went to for I-43; the study is just getting going, and WisDOT is soliciting input from the public.  The study area covers the stretch of I-94 between the part rebuilt with the Marquette Interchange and the part that's about to be rebuilt with the Zoo Interchange.  This freeway has a LOT of issues with capacity, geometry, integrity of structures, interchange spacing, left exits and r/w constraints.

I'll start with the cemeteries west of Miller Park.  Here the freeway slices between 3 different cemeteries and there is no room for additional r/w.  Expanding I-94 to 8 lanes would probably get kind of tight through here.  But due to the very short distance between the Hawley Rd and Mitchell Blvd exits, one would ideally like to have auxillary or even c/d lanes.  Double decking of this segment is being considered.  I offered the engineers my vision of accomplishing this by lowering the grade of one carriageway rather than raising one carriageway in order to mollify neighborhood objection to having a towering viaduct through here.  This necessitates the change in grade separation at Hawley Rd and Mitchell Blvd that were part of my Stadium Interchange rebuild in "Redesigning Interchanges"
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3618.msg94446;topicseen#msg94446 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3618.msg94446;topicseen#msg94446)

I also presented my volleyball roundabout concept for the Stadium Interchange itself.  They thought it was an interesting idea and acknowledged the possibility of "downgrading" this system interchange given the dead end nature of the Stadium Freeway/Miller Park Way.  They had ADT data for this interchange on displays, but I'm no engineer and I don't know what the cutoffs are regarding what should be done with an interchange.  All ramp movements were around 7 or 8 thousand ADT except for WB->NB and SB->EB which were up around 13,000 ADT.

The close spacing of interchanges in this study area seems to be an area of particular concern for WisDOT.  Every engineer I spoke to brought it up.  I think they are considering eliminating at least one interchange.  The most likely candidate is Mitchell Blvd given its light usage on non-game days and nearness to adjacent interchanges.  One engineer seemed to indicate that turning Mitchell Blvd into an "event only" interchange is an option to be considered.  To me, that means a half interchange to/from the west only.
When I mentioned to an engineer that I use the WB exit at 25th Street to get to Miller Park on game days, he indicated that was something I should definitely mention in my comments.  This leads me to believe WisDOT might consider changing this access.  There is a lot of room for improvement (metaphorically, not physically) in this area of St. Paul Ave and 27th St. As it stands though, 25th Street provides great access between Canal Street and I-94 east and therefore, the Marquette Interchange.

Construction on this area is tentatively scheduled to start in 2019; same as I-43 in the northern suburbs.  Given recent history, it seems likely that one of these two projects will get bumped up or back due to funding access.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Jordanah1 on August 21, 2012, 08:50:12 PM
i think that if the stadium interchange were to be downgraded, the movements to and from miller park way should remain freeflow, in order to keep the flow of event traffic flowing smoothly. i proposed something in the redesigning interchanges as well for the whole coridor, focusing around the stadium interchange. i think that having good access, that will not back up onto the I94 mainline is important, as i have seen such backups everytime i have been to a brewer game.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on August 22, 2012, 03:16:30 AM
I like the idea of the Mitchell Interchange going away. It's really tight there with Hawley, but provides very different access (darn cemeteries create quite a shield from the park and Hawley).

I'm wishy washy on the Stadium Interchange situation. Part of me wants to downgrade it, part of me wants to upgrade it, and part wants me want a mix of the two (all three of these are removing left-hand merges onto 94. screw that). We already have meters on all the ramps that lead to I94, so it's not 100% free flow (well, during rush hour anyway. off peak times the meters are off).

A full-sized interchange isn't really warranted, Miller Park Way only goes to National Ave and Miller park's parking lots and 41 just takes you to the north side. Besides game days (which are always gonna cause traffic. it's reality. shoving THAT many cars during one time through the possible space we have... yeah) using baseball games as an excuse to build build build is just a waste of money 80% of the time. Sure it will also help out with higher traffic volumes in the future too... yeah I got nothing else to add here.

I don't see a volleyball roundabout happening ever. I'm not saying it's not a good idea or anything, but there isn't a single one in the US that I can think of, and I doubt it's gonna change. I don't even think Wisconsin has any DDIs or SPUIs... let alone a foreign major interchange design ever happening.

I wonder what they're going to do during the research phase of this study. I'd love to see what happens when a number of ramps are closed down. Particularly if the N->W and S->E movements were closed. Those I find to be fairly bad on slowing down 94. Temporarily blocking any left-hand exit/entrances to Gen Mitchell Blvd would also be a part of this experiment.

I also find the 27th-25th st situation to be quite annoying. Exiting from WB 94 onto 25th st sucks either way right now. If you go south, you're stuck at several red lights every time, and if you go north a little and west... again more north-side traffic and stuff. I'd love for all those 4+ intersections to be simplified into something that can much more efficiently move cars to where they really wanna go.

The "27th St" entrance ramp to WB94 is also incredibly too close to the traffic exiting onto 35th st. I always see bad weaving here that slows everyone down (and I commonly find myself to be a part of this weaving). I use quotes around 27th St because it's more like 28.5th street... that power substation is in the darn way. And even if it wasn't in the way, it would create a 5-way intersection between 27th and St Paul... yuck. Again, like I said earlier... something major needs to be figured out there. Just making streets cross each other isn't going to be a solution.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SSOWorld on August 22, 2012, 06:21:54 AM
I like the idea of the Mitchell Interchange going away. It's really tight there with Hawley, but provides very different access (darn cemeteries create quite a shield from the park and Hawley).
If the Mitchell Interchange goes away how can traffic get to Chicago?


oh wait...

You mean Mitchell Blvd  :-D
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on August 22, 2012, 06:27:06 AM
I like the idea of the Mitchell Interchange going away. It's really tight there with Hawley, but provides very different access (darn cemeteries create quite a shield from the park and Hawley).
If the Mitchell Interchange goes away how can traffic get to Chicago?


oh wait...

You mean Mitchell Blvd  :-D

Triple said "Mitchell Blvd into an "event only" interchange".... I just dropped a few words.  :P
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: DaBigE on August 22, 2012, 10:01:53 AM
...I don't even think Wisconsin has any DDIs or SPUIs... let alone a foreign major interchange design ever happening....

Wisconsin has at least one SPUI, and it's in Eau Claire (http://goo.gl/maps/TkEWI). There are rumors that at least one may be constructed in the Fox Valley in the not too distant future as well.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on August 22, 2012, 10:36:18 AM
...I don't even think Wisconsin has any DDIs or SPUIs... let alone a foreign major interchange design ever happening....

Wisconsin has at least one SPUI, and it's in Eau Claire (http://goo.gl/maps/TkEWI). There are rumors that at least one may be constructed in the Fox Valley in the not too distant future as well.

None that I know of are coming up here, although WisDOT was considering using that design at US 41 (I-xx)/9th Ave in Oshkosh and at US 41 (I-xx)/Breezewood-Bell in Neenah before going with the roundabouts in US 41 (I-xx)'s current rebuild.

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Jordanah1 on August 22, 2012, 11:09:45 AM
...I don't even think Wisconsin has any DDIs or SPUIs... let alone a foreign major interchange design ever happening....

Wisconsin has at least one SPUI, and it's in Eau Claire (http://goo.gl/maps/TkEWI). There are rumors that at least one may be constructed in the Fox Valley in the not too distant future as well.

None that I know of are coming up here, although WisDOT was considering using that design at US 41 (I-xx)/9th Ave in Oshkosh and at US 41 (I-xx)/Breezewood-Bell in Neenah before going with the roundabouts in US 41 (I-xx)'s current rebuild.

Mike
i hadn'd heard about that.
they are going to build a SPUI in madison at Verona Rd.
i think a SPUI at college ave. and Wisconsin ave. in appleton(grand chute) would be really nice. the confined spaces and heavy traffic would warant a SPUI over a diamond with lights in my opinion. johnson St. in Fond du Lac would be another good one.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: DaBigE on August 22, 2012, 12:30:30 PM
...I don't even think Wisconsin has any DDIs or SPUIs... let alone a foreign major interchange design ever happening....

Wisconsin has at least one SPUI, and it's in Eau Claire (http://goo.gl/maps/TkEWI). There are rumors that at least one may be constructed in the Fox Valley in the not too distant future as well.

None that I know of are coming up here, although WisDOT was considering using that design at US 41 (I-xx)/9th Ave in Oshkosh and at US 41 (I-xx)/Breezewood-Bell in Neenah before going with the roundabouts in US 41 (I-xx)'s current rebuild.

Mike

The one that I had heard of was associated with the 441 rebuild; it was one of the options under consideration for one or couple of the redesigned interchanges (Oneida St was one of them if I recall correctly). The latest (updated in April of 2012) preferred alternatives (http://www.dot.wi.gov/projects/d3/wis441/alternatives.htm) only show roundabouts and revised signals, but I've heard there has been quite a bit of back-and-forth going on regarding what configuration flows best.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on August 22, 2012, 03:18:49 PM
Thanks for sharing that Eau Claire spui, good to know!
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on August 22, 2012, 05:43:14 PM
I don't see a volleyball roundabout happening ever. I'm not saying it's not a good idea or anything, but there isn't a single one in the US that I can think of, and I doubt it's gonna change. I don't even think Wisconsin has any DDIs or SPUIs... let alone a foreign major interchange design ever happening.

Airline Hwy and Causeway Blvd in New Orleans:
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=29.97410,-90.15557&z=16&t=S (http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=29.97410,-90.15557&z=16&t=S)

I like it because it's a nice compromise between free-flow access and cost.  It'll be way cheaper than a full semi-directional stack or other free flow interchange and move traffic more effectively than something like a SPUI or a tight diamond ala the old Hillside Interchange on I-43 at Fondy/McKinley.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on August 22, 2012, 06:15:56 PM
Airline Hwy and Causeway Blvd in New Orleans:
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=29.97410,-90.15557&z=16&t=S (http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=29.97410,-90.15557&z=16&t=S)

Neato the US does have one!

My Dad was overlooking my laptop screen when I was looking at that. He right away said that having one of those in the snow would be annoying... which I didn't think about. Ice+snow sounds like really low speed and skidding to me. Couple that with people needing to yield? Sounds like a hellacious jam when people are trying to leave the park.

:shrug:
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SSOWorld on August 22, 2012, 07:49:56 PM
The SPUI in Madison is part of what may be a fading idea to put a fly-under freeway for US 151 to join the Beltline at.  WisDOT is starting to shy away from the flyunder, but the SPUI construction will go on as planned - 2014-2016 is the target time frame for construction.  I think Eau Claire has the only SPUI in the state.

Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin.  GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: DaBigE on August 22, 2012, 08:01:43 PM
...Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin.  GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!

Get ready to feel sicker, as r :spin: undabouts aren't going away anytime soon. :nod:
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Jordanah1 on August 22, 2012, 08:28:50 PM
...Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin.  GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!

Get ready to feel sicker, as r :spin: undabouts aren't going away anytime soon. :nod:
its not that i have anything against roundabouts at busy ramp terminals, i love them, but in tight diamond situations with little room for expansion were traffic is very heavy (such as at college ave. and wisconsin ave. (grand chute) or johnson st. (fond du lac) you have no room to build roundabouts, and their proximity to eachother would make them backup into eachother, a SPUI or DDI would then be the logical choice over having very congested light cycles. u
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: JREwing78 on August 23, 2012, 08:21:09 AM
The SPUI in Madison is part of what may be a fading idea to put a fly-under freeway for US 151 to join the Beltline at.  WisDOT is starting to shy away from the flyunder, but the SPUI construction will go on as planned - 2014-2016 is the target time frame for construction.  I think Eau Claire has the only SPUI in the state.

Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin.  GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!

The official word is that they're not going to implement the fly-under for the next 20 years or so, until the SPUI interchange becomes overwhelmed. It's kind of a tricky location to do one, and it'll require a considerable amount of land acquisition.

...Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin.  GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!

Get ready to feel sicker, as r :spin: undabouts aren't going away anytime soon. :nod:
its not that i have anything against roundabouts at busy ramp terminals, i love them, but in tight diamond situations with little room for expansion were traffic is very heavy (such as at college ave. and wisconsin ave. (grand chute) or johnson st. (fond du lac) you have no room to build roundabouts, and their proximity to eachother would make them backup into eachother, a SPUI or DDI would then be the logical choice over having very congested light cycles. u

Seems to work fine for the Lee Rd interchange on US-23 in Brighton, MI (where there's three roundabouts short-spaced together) - http://goo.gl/maps/x1uuG
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Jordanah1 on August 23, 2012, 11:18:42 AM
The SPUI in Madison is part of what may be a fading idea to put a fly-under freeway for US 151 to join the Beltline at.  WisDOT is starting to shy away from the flyunder, but the SPUI construction will go on as planned - 2014-2016 is the target time frame for construction.  I think Eau Claire has the only SPUI in the state.

Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin.  GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!

The official word is that they're not going to implement the fly-under for the next 20 years or so, until the SPUI interchange becomes overwhelmed. It's kind of a tricky location to do one, and it'll require a considerable amount of land acquisition.

...Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin.  GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!

Get ready to feel sicker, as r :spin: undabouts aren't going away anytime soon. :nod:
its not that i have anything against roundabouts at busy ramp terminals, i love them, but in tight diamond situations with little room for expansion were traffic is very heavy (such as at college ave. and wisconsin ave. (grand chute) or johnson st. (fond du lac) you have no room to build roundabouts, and their proximity to eachother would make them backup into eachother, a SPUI or DDI would then be the logical choice over having very congested light cycles. u

Seems to work fine for the Lee Rd interchange on US-23 in Brighton, MI (where there's three roundabouts short-spaced together) - http://goo.gl/maps/x1uuG
there doesnt seem to be tremendous amounts of traffic there. im talking about interchanges handling 20,000-30,000 through vehicles a day, and 7,000-13,000 vehicles a day on most of the ramps. i would never build roundabouts that close to eachother, thats too close unless traffic is low enough.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on August 23, 2012, 11:22:56 AM
The SPUI in Madison is part of what may be a fading idea to put a fly-under freeway for US 151 to join the Beltline at.  WisDOT is starting to shy away from the flyunder, but the SPUI construction will go on as planned - 2014-2016 is the target time frame for construction.  I think Eau Claire has the only SPUI in the state.

Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin.  GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!

The official word is that they're not going to implement the fly-under for the next 20 years or so, until the SPUI interchange becomes overwhelmed. It's kind of a tricky location to do one, and it'll require a considerable amount of land acquisition.

I wish that WisDOT would 'bite the bullet' on that one now, rather than later, too.

...Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin.  GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!

Get ready to feel sicker, as r :spin: undabouts aren't going away anytime soon. :nod:
its not that i have anything against roundabouts at busy ramp terminals, i love them, but in tight diamond situations with little room for expansion were traffic is very heavy (such as at college ave. and wisconsin ave. (grand chute) or johnson st. (fond du lac) you have no room to build roundabouts, and their proximity to eachother would make them backup into eachother, a SPUI or DDI would then be the logical choice over having very congested light cycles. u

Seems to work fine for the Lee Rd interchange on US-23 in Brighton, MI (where there's three roundabouts short-spaced together) - http://goo.gl/maps/x1uuG

Actually, there is OODLES of room for roundabouts at US 41(I-xx)/WI 125 (College Ave), including at the major intersections to its west.  I'm kind of surprised that WisDOT didn't do that when they redid the ramps there, adding lanes, last year.

I have pondered both 'dogbone' roundabouts and a SPUI at US 41(I-xx)/WI 96 (Wisconsin Ave), too, but there really isn't much that can be done there without turning it into a 'big shovel' project.  WisDOT would have to dig out and replace the entire 1991 six-lane overpass to redo it as a SPUI and there is no room there for a 'dogbone' without acquiring ROW in that tight location.

When WisDOT was pondering the current six-lane freeway back in the late 1980s (built 1991-1992), they wanted to eliminate that interchange entirely.  Had that work been done now (with the pending interstate promotion) rather than back then, AASHTO may well have ordered that interchange closed rather than rebuilt due to 'interstate' standards regarding interchange spacing.

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Jordanah1 on August 23, 2012, 01:55:51 PM
if i were to redo that area right now (if traffic was suddenly overwelming the area) i think i would add an auxilary lane from the HWY BB on ramp and have it diverge as a C/D lane, with the college ave. and Wisconsin ave. ramps entering/exiting the C/D lanes. the c/d lanes would rejoin the through lanes of US41, and would be an exit only lane at HWY OO/15 with 6 lanes continuing. i assume WISDOT is starting to think about studying expanding US41 on the north side of appleton/fox valley to six lanes. the wisconsin ave. interchange would be a SPUI, and the college ave interchange would be a dogbone roundabout. add a roundabout at college ave.-mall dr./nicolet rd. and at college ave.-casaloma dr. i also think a roundabout at the multilane four way stop at spencer st.- nicolet dr. would be nice.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: gbgoose on August 23, 2012, 02:34:21 PM
if i were to redo that area right now (if traffic was suddenly overwelming the area) i think i would add an auxilary lane from the HWY BB on ramp and have it diverge as a C/D lane, with the college ave. and Wisconsin ave. ramps entering/exiting the C/D lanes. the c/d lanes would rejoin the through lanes of US41, and would be an exit only lane at HWY OO/15 with 6 lanes continuing. i assume WISDOT is starting to think about studying expanding US41 on the north side of appleton/fox valley to six lanes. the wisconsin ave. interchange would be a SPUI, and the college ave interchange would be a dogbone roundabout. add a roundabout at college ave.-mall dr./nicolet rd. and at college ave.-casaloma dr. i also think a roundabout at the multilane four way stop at spencer st.- nicolet dr. would be nice.

Honestly - the DOT should look at expanding 41 to 6 lanes from Appleton to De Pere down the road.  There is enough traffic between the two areas to support 6 lanes now.  At least do a study on the area on the number of cars from 15/OO to where the Green Bay expansion starts just south of Scheuring Rd.   
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Jordanah1 on August 23, 2012, 03:01:38 PM
i was coming back from michigan before the packer pre season game a few weeks ago, and obviously there will be congestion, but i didnt expect to see as much as i saw. near lambeau there was a small backup, and in the de pere area there was a mile or 2 long backup just from the construction slowdown, then there was a car pulled over causing a 4-5mile backup too kakauna, and an accident in the median of US41 near little chute had traffic backed up too HWY OO/15 then there was the typical backups in the neenah and oshkosh construction zones. it was a perfect storm of rush hour, packer game, construction, and accidents/pulled over vehicles to create a nearly 50 mile long parkinglot that is Northbound US41. now obviously this isnt an everyday occurance but rather a 'perfect storm', but it highlights the deficiencies of the 4lane section of US41.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on August 23, 2012, 07:20:09 PM
i was coming back from michigan before the packer pre season game a few weeks ago, and obviously there will be congestion, but i didnt expect to see as much as i saw. near lambeau there was a small backup, and in the de pere area there was a mile or 2 long backup just from the construction slowdown, then there was a car pulled over causing a 4-5mile backup too kakauna, and an accident in the median of US41 near little chute had traffic backed up too HWY OO/15 then there was the typical backups in the neenah and oshkosh construction zones. it was a perfect storm of rush hour, packer game, construction, and accidents/pulled over vehicles to create a nearly 50 mile long parkinglot that is Northbound US41. now obviously this isnt an everyday occurance but rather a 'perfect storm', but it highlights the deficiencies of the 4lane section of US41.

When I go to Packer games (my family has sat in two of the very best seats anywhere in the NFL for 50 seasons now), if I see that Green Bay bound US 41(I-xx) is not flowing freely, I'll not enter the freeway and instead take County 'E' northeast to WI 172, then WI 172 east to the stadium area.  It's a backroads 'safety valve' routing that'll blow by a lot of traffic hassles.  The new roundabout at WI 54/172/County 'E' makes that even easier.

I'll also not hesitate to bail off of US 41(I-xx) if the Green Bay bound going starts tightening up and again take backroads that are well-known to me.

 :nod:

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on August 24, 2012, 05:51:46 PM
My Dad was overlooking my laptop screen when I was looking at that. He right away said that having one of those in the snow would be annoying... which I didn't think about. Ice+snow sounds like really low speed and skidding to me. Couple that with people needing to yield? Sounds like a hellacious jam when people are trying to leave the park.

It'll be no more treacherous than every other road in Wisconsin when it snows.

Brewer games are the reason I added the NB-WB 'fly-under' to my design as post-game traffic is worse than pregame traffic with a few exceptions (opening day, pennant race games, playoff games; of course it doesn't seem likely that we'll have to worry about the latter 2 for the next few years at least. :( )  (Ah, I'm just being pessimistic right now.)

Most Brewer traffic is coming from the west and would not be using the roundabout before games.  Then they use the fly-under on their way out.  WB-SB might back up a bit before some games, but that's what you get for not using Canal Street to get to the stadium from the east, you dummies!
I usually don't have problems leaving Miller Park after games due to three words: post-game tailgate.  Crack a beer (or something else if you're driving), eat that left over brat and shoot the shit until traffic clears up.  That's how I've always done it after Packer games, too.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on November 08, 2012, 01:59:00 PM
Good news, everyone!
The Mitchell Interchange is done:
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_3718.html_786229440.html (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_3718.html_786229440.html)


Elsewhere in MKE, WisDOT is going to wedge in a fourth lane on WB I-94 coming out of the Marquette Interchange this spring.  Earlier this year they restriped the lanes coming together WB so the ramps from 43, 94 and 794 each lose one lane.  And while it loosened up traffic coming in from 43 and 94, the loss of that second WB thru lane on 794 has been causing some pretty shitty backups for evening commuters.  So they're going to hit CTRL-Z on that.

Now the solution is to basically do what was originally planned for 94 WB during the Marquette rebuild before the western limits were shrunk back.  Except now they have to utilize the existing space under the overpasses to extend that 4th lane to 35th St., so goodbye shoulders.  It will have to be enough to get the highway to its major ~2019 rebuild.

Once complete, WB 94 will function the way it should have for the last 7 years.  (Well, sort of; those crummy sightlines under 25th St will still be there and I'm pretty sure the pre-scaled-back Marquette rebuild would've fixed that.)
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on November 08, 2012, 03:01:15 PM
Elsewhere in MKE, WisDOT is going to wedge in a fourth lane on WB I-94 coming out of the Marquette Interchange this spring.  Earlier this year they restriped the lanes coming together WB so the ramps from 43, 94 and 794 each lose one lane.  And while it loosened up traffic coming in from 43 and 94, the loss of that second WB thru lane on 794 has been causing some pretty shitty backups for evening commuters.  So they're going to hit CTRL-Z on that.

Now the solution is to basically do what was originally planned for 94 WB during the Marquette rebuild before the western limits were shrunk back.  Except now they have to utilize the existing space under the overpasses to extend that 4th lane to 35th St., so goodbye shoulders.  It will have to be enough to get the highway to its major ~2019 rebuild.

Hey that re-striping worked out well for me! (coming from I-43... couldn't stand that bolus of west-bound 794/city traffic that screwed over 94 and 43. Many a day I found me and others using the shoulder to get around it and exit onto 25th st).

But having 4-lanes through here is perfect enough for now. I wonder if they will remove the bend they have through this section and make the 25th St exit straighter and closer to the retaining wall too (like they originally planned on). Because if they're going to do this through 35th St... they're really gonna need to redo everything shoulder-wise past 25th st... there's like a 6' shoulder and none in other parts.

Where did WisDOT say they were doing this (or planning on it)?

EDIT: Also. Anyone notice some random re-striping they've been doing? I-43 looks like it was diamond grinded in spots (like the curve) and striped again. The lines approaching the Marquette Interchange from the west were also very faint.. they've been painted again and much more visible.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on November 08, 2012, 04:33:40 PM
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_3714.html_786229440.html (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_3714.html_786229440.html)

There was also an article in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal last week.

The new 794 lane configuration never gave me any problems due to my travel patterns.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on November 08, 2012, 04:43:19 PM
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_3714.html_786229440.html (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_3714.html_786229440.html)

There was also an article in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal last week.

The new 794 lane configuration never gave me any problems due to my travel patterns.

Hmm only 3 months for this to be constructed! Will be interesting to see developments.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on December 17, 2012, 08:34:42 PM
Alternatives are now on the web for I-94 in and around the Stadium Interchange.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/94stadiumint/public.htm (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/94stadiumint/public.htm)

Lots of options for double decking through the cemeteries west of Miller Park.
Someone on the team for this project must be lobbying pretty hard to eliminate the interchange at 35th Street, since that shows up a whole bunch.
Some of the alternatives around 27th Street call for shifting the mainline of I-94 to the south quite a bit.
I'm dubious that the Stadium Interchange itself will remain a full system interchange.  There isn't really the traffic to justify the expense of some of those stack alternatives.  Although there is a fairly tight and reasonable one inset on the "spot improvements" pdf.  That's about as high capacity as I would even consider.

So my picks are:
Volleyball SPUI for the Stadium Interchange
Elevated EB lanes double deck option thru the cemetery (4 EB lanes, 2 EB c/d lanes on top; 4 WB lanes, 2 WB c/d lanes underneath)
the c/d lanes option between Hawley and 68th
the braided ramps option for 35th & 27th and the version that keeps St. Paul Ave.

Although I could probably be talked into something that eliminates 35th St.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: GeekJedi on December 17, 2012, 09:08:24 PM
I drive through the Stadium Interchange every day...and while there isn't a ton of traffic off-peak, there is a whole lot of it during peak hours.  It's not unusual to see traffic slow just south of 94 going into the National Ave intersection due to backups.  There's also often 10+ cars in queue in each lane at the ramp meters in the evening.  In short, I'd be against anything that isn't fairly free-flowing at that intersection.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Revive 755 on December 17, 2012, 09:14:00 PM
I think the presence of the Modified Echelon Interchange alternative is proof the Wisconsin DOT has been smoking stuff lately.  They might as well go with a cloverleaf if they want weaving.  At least the cloverleaf would have the ramps on the right side of the road.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on December 17, 2012, 09:22:34 PM
I use the 35th st interchange nearly every day and so do lots of other people, I do not want to see it go away! Me being selfish or not, it's one of the primary connections between I-94 & northside+southside. (The other connections being 16th St, 27th St, and Miller Park Way (which mostly services that fringe West Allis Area and the northside and could be downgraded to a lesser priority interchange).

* For 35th & 27th st, I like the "Collector-Distributor (CD) Roads" solution the most. It removes that terrible curve I-94 currently has and handles those two exits PERFECTLY! Couldn't wish for any better.
The "Braided Ramps" solution would be my next pick. Again, addresses that I-94 curve a little and still remains full (and decently designed) access to those two streets.
The "split diamond" fix looks bad already. Split diamonds work with two cross roads, not FOUR of them! And lastly the "no 35th st" exit plain old sucks.

* For Hawley Rd & 68-70th St, all of them look acceptable to me. If I had to pic a favorite, it would probably have to be the "6 or 8 lanes mainline with adjacent 2-way arterial" option. Does away with the bulky loop ramps... just looks more pleasing.

* For the height of the double-decker section, I think the "Split the difference" would be the best compromise, with the "All Down" one being preferable. If it has to be "all up" I don't care.

* For the Stadium Interchange, obviously the "Full System - Stacked" one is my fav (except for the fact that they don't retain an exit to Wisconsin Ave), but it's really not needed as US45 is gimped compared to what it should've been. With that in mind, the rest of the ideas look pretty... decent. My next biggest favs are either of the SPUI designs, each of them having their own benefits and drawbacks. The "modified echelon" one doesn't make much sense to me... it looks downright dangerous.

Here's a high-res copy showing the three stitched together.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8491/8283197952_7e40c0f55b_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/colinstu/8283197952/)

edit: at the very minimum, the spot improvement pdf gets a thumbs up.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Alps on December 17, 2012, 11:04:35 PM
Ooh, another offset SPUI!
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Jordanah1 on December 20, 2012, 01:45:56 PM
some of the ideas in there are strikingly similar to something i put in the redesigned interchanges page awhile ago regarding C/D setup and the double-decking. i made my stadium interchange freeflow, but added some loop ramps were i didnt think expensive flyovers were necessary. i think that there is enough peak traffic at the stadium interchange to warrant a freeflow interchange, not to mention event traffic from brewers games, i have been a part of a backup onto I94 everytime i have gone to a brewer game, and backups like those are dangerous.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on December 20, 2012, 04:00:34 PM
The biggest problem with game day traffic is Mitchell Blvd and its stubby little left hand ramps that let traffic back up onto the freeway.  The left hand ramps are also the biggest problem with normal rush hours at the Stadium; you're getting squeezed by merging traffic from both sides.  I would say there's less traffic trying to get on 94 at the Stadium during a typical rush hour than there is trying to get on I-43 at McKinley/Fond du Lac where a tight diamond is adequate most of the time.
So I'd accept some serious downgrading of the Stadium, especially if it loosens the pucker on some bureaucrats' budgetary buttholes.  Then dump the savings into MCTS.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on December 21, 2012, 05:12:13 AM
I'm personally a fan of the volleyball SPUI for the Stadium Interchange.  I realize that with the exception of peak times, the current interchange is vastly larger than what is needed (negating the need for what would admittedly be a pretty cool four-level stack), but I can't get behind downgrading 41 to an arterial.  It's currently one of the best ways to quickly get from the south side to the north side during rush hour.  The volleyball SPUI would operate much like the current interchange does, since they have the ramps metered anyway, but with the obvious improvement of feeding into the C/D roadway and no horrible left-hand entrances.  It looks like it would provide acceptable levels of service for the design year, too, so I'd like to see it move forward.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Jordanah1 on January 03, 2013, 05:02:26 PM
I'm personally a fan of the volleyball SPUI for the Stadium Interchange.  I realize that with the exception of peak times, the current interchange is vastly larger than what is needed (negating the need for what would admittedly be a pretty cool four-level stack), but I can't get behind downgrading 41 to an arterial.  It's currently one of the best ways to quickly get from the south side to the north side during rush hour.  The volleyball SPUI would operate much like the current interchange does, since they have the ramps metered anyway, but with the obvious improvement of feeding into the C/D roadway and no horrible left-hand entrances.  It looks like it would provide acceptable levels of service for the design year, too, so I'd like to see it move forward.
with 4 through lanes and C/D lanes, would any of the ramps on this stretch be metered? not living in milwaukee im not all that familiar with when they are in use and when they are not, and i would assume that increased lane capacity would negate the need for metering, for at least the time being. i made all my designs for the area on the assumption that there would be no such metering with the increased capacity.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on January 04, 2013, 04:15:16 AM
I'm personally a fan of the volleyball SPUI for the Stadium Interchange.  I realize that with the exception of peak times, the current interchange is vastly larger than what is needed (negating the need for what would admittedly be a pretty cool four-level stack), but I can't get behind downgrading 41 to an arterial.  It's currently one of the best ways to quickly get from the south side to the north side during rush hour.  The volleyball SPUI would operate much like the current interchange does, since they have the ramps metered anyway, but with the obvious improvement of feeding into the C/D roadway and no horrible left-hand entrances.  It looks like it would provide acceptable levels of service for the design year, too, so I'd like to see it move forward.
with 4 through lanes and C/D lanes, would any of the ramps on this stretch be metered? not living in milwaukee im not all that familiar with when they are in use and when they are not, and i would assume that increased lane capacity would negate the need for metering, for at least the time being. i made all my designs for the area on the assumption that there would be no such metering with the increased capacity.

It's entirely possible. The new Mitchell Interchange uses C/D roads and the ramps feeding them are still metered.  Granted, it's a stretch with fewer access points, but I think it's comparable to how they'd design the east-west stretch.  But then again, with all that added capacity, maybe not.  What I was initially referring to is the current Stadium Interchange has its free flow ramps metered, so having a stack interchange with the ramps flattened into a signalized intersection would pretty much operate the same as it does today. 
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on January 16, 2013, 04:12:40 PM
And we're off to the races with the Zoo Interchange project:
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_3793.html_786229440.html (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_3793.html_786229440.html)

Now technically the project's been underway for a year, but that was just boring stuff like reconstructing local streets and moving around utilities. The Greenfield Ave interchange is shutting down next week so its bridge can be rebuilt.  Now we're talkin'!
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: on_wisconsin on February 09, 2013, 07:16:26 PM
Looks like WisDOT will be continuing to use the cream and blue color theme with the new Zoo IC. :thumbsup:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/packerfan386/zoo_zps75c517a2.png)
click to enlarge
capped from this: http://projects.511wi.gov/c/document_library/get_file?uuid=8e525968-e1c9-44fb-a259-980da662021b&groupId=15899
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on February 09, 2013, 07:24:50 PM
Awesome... it's a nice theme. (and they've been using it at the Mitchell interchange, etc too)
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on February 09, 2013, 09:47:58 PM
WisDOT has been using that light blue paint on steel bridge beams for as long as I can remember.  Several major bridges dating back to the mid-1970s here in the Appleton area have blue-painted steel, too.

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on February 09, 2013, 09:57:17 PM
The SPUI in Madison is part of what may be a fading idea to put a fly-under freeway for US 151 to join the Beltline at.  WisDOT is starting to shy away from the flyunder, but the SPUI construction will go on as planned - 2014-2016 is the target time frame for construction.  I think Eau Claire has the only SPUI in the state.

Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin.  GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!

I haven't seen it mentioned before, but the Teutonia Ave./Silver Spring Dr. interchange in Milwaukee was rebuilt as a SPUI a few years ago. It should be visible on Google maps by now.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on February 09, 2013, 10:05:13 PM
The SPUI in Madison is part of what may be a fading idea to put a fly-under freeway for US 151 to join the Beltline at.  WisDOT is starting to shy away from the flyunder, but the SPUI construction will go on as planned - 2014-2016 is the target time frame for construction.  I think Eau Claire has the only SPUI in the state.

Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin.  GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!

I haven't seen it mentioned before, but the Teutonia Ave./Silver Spring Dr. interchange in Milwaukee was rebuilt as a SPUI a few years ago. It should be visible on Google maps by now.

Man I didn't even realize that was a SPUI!
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on February 11, 2013, 10:20:34 PM
New pavement and bridge decks this year for I-43/94 between Howard Ave and the Marquette Interchange.

http://projects.511wi.gov/web/i-43-bridges-project (http://projects.511wi.gov/web/i-43-bridges-project)

Same deal as the last two years on I-94 between the Zoo and the Marquette in terms of what they're doing.  But this freeway will be getting it in both directions this year.  There will be extended lane and service ramp closures throughout the year.  So heads up for that.

I find it interesting that one of the redeckings will be the "High Rise Bridge" (I-43/94 over the Menomonee Valley).  This bridge was pretty much left as-is during the Marquette rebuild with new bridges built up against it where needed.  They probably should've taken advantage of that once-a-generation disruption to upgrade that bridge back then.  But they didn't, so here we are.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on February 11, 2013, 10:32:03 PM
Got a piece of mail talking about this last year. The page online has been around for awhile too.

They've been randomly paving some more asphalt over the few feet of shoulder that exist throughout this stretch for a few months.

Really wish they re-did the south-bound portion of the Marquette interchange. I43+I94+downtown Wisconsin Ave+I794 all merging together into basically 3 lanes (1 lane being an exit toward 6th St+National ave). That, plus poor geometry of the lines, how things merge, gore points, the incline, etc... what a mess.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Big John on February 11, 2013, 11:14:20 PM
New pavement and bridge decks this year for I-43/94 between Howard Ave and the Marquette Interchange.

http://projects.511wi.gov/web/i-43-bridges-project (http://projects.511wi.gov/web/i-43-bridges-project)

Same deal as the last two years on I-94 between the Zoo and the Marquette in terms of what they're doing.  But this freeway will be getting it in both directions this year.  There will be extended lane and service ramp closures throughout the year.  So heads up for that.

I find it interesting that one of the redeckings will be the "High Rise Bridge" (I-43/94 over the Menomonee Valley).  This bridge was pretty much left as-is during the Marquette rebuild with new bridges built up against it where needed.  They probably should've taken advantage of that once-a-generation disruption to upgrade that bridge back then.  But they didn't, so here we are.

Checking the link, the bridges will get new/replaced deck overlays.  Technically speaking, redecking means stripping the bridge down to its girders and then pouring or placing in a new deck in its place, which is not the case here.  Replacing the overlay is a cheaper alternative but has a shorter life as it is still using the older deck underneath it.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Revive 755 on February 11, 2013, 11:29:29 PM
WisDot has some maps of alternatives for I-43 between Silver Springs Drive and WI 60 up on their website:

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/43/public.htm (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/43/public.htm)

I see WisDOT has given an official name for the U-ramp design, though it seems it should be called a Double Horseshoe if there are two of the U-ramps present.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on February 12, 2013, 12:01:22 AM
WisDot has some maps of alternatives for I-43 between Silver Springs Drive and WI 60 up on their website:

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/43/public.htm (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/43/public.htm)

I see WisDOT has given an official name for the U-ramp design, though it seems it should be called a Double Horseshoe if there are two of the U-ramps present.

Now that's an awesome find... didn't know there's been meetings and ideas drafted up for I-43 being widened and redesigned interchanges. Looks like construction would start around 2019!
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Stephane Dumas on February 12, 2013, 05:15:58 PM
For Good Hope Road, I like the idea of a split diamond interchange.

I once suggested on Fictionnal roads, the idea of a interchange on Highland road, does someone at WIDOT checked AARoads? ;)
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on February 12, 2013, 07:50:25 PM
The Highland Road interchange has been around as a proposal for a while now.  It was part of SEWRPC's regional freeways study from over a decade ago.

I love the diverging diamond for Brown Deer Rd.

I'd pick the single point interchange for Good Hope.  But the split diamond with Green Tree does have my attention since Good Hope doesn't make it all the way to Lake Dr.  It would be okay with me.

They should put 43 below grade between the RR bridge and Green Tree.  The elevated options ain't going to fly in those bitchy suburbs anyway.  They're probably already upset they'll need right of way.

(Anyone else getting loads of crap from those pdf's?)
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on February 13, 2013, 01:57:38 AM
I really like the diverging diamond at Brown Deer, and it looks like it addresses all the concerns they have there.  Also like the SPUI at Good Hope.  It does beg the question why WisDOT completely rebuilt the bridges at Brown Deer and Good Hope two years ago when they were planning to rip them out within a decade.  The original structures must have been in really poor shape. 
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on February 13, 2013, 02:08:15 AM
I really like the diverging diamond at Brown Deer, and it looks like it addresses all the concerns they have there.  Also like the SPUI at Good Hope.  It does beg the question why WisDOT completely rebuilt the bridges at Brown Deer and Good Hope two years ago when they were planning to rip them out within a decade.  The original structures must have been in really poor shape.

That was likely part of it.  The old bridges pre-dated I-43 by many years (the freeway was originally US 141, upgraded Port Washington Rd).  As for the DDI, it should be able to make use of the existing new bridges just fine.  Last year, GADOT kept the existing bridges when they converted an existing interchange on I-285 in north suburban Atlanta to a DDI.

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on February 14, 2013, 05:56:03 PM
It does beg the question why WisDOT completely rebuilt the bridges at Brown Deer and Good Hope two years ago when they were planning to rip them out within a decade.  The original structures must have been in really poor shape.

I brought up this exact thing at a PIM for those projects a few years ago.  I was giving them crap for not just rebuilding Brown Deer as a diamond at the time.  But the people I talked to said something about waiting for the study that's going on now before they would consider reconfigurations.  Really stupid IMHO; those death ramps are evil.  There's no reason they couldn't have done the DDI in '011.  At least they left room for more lanes under the new overpass.

At Green Tree & Good Hope, those bridges were clinging to life.  They replaced Good Hope and stitched Green Tree together as best they could.  Its underside is covered with construction fabric to prevent chunks from falling on the interstate.

It's the kind of project where it would've been nice if WisDOT had an idea of what they were going to do with the corridor a decade or more out and could've build bridges that would accommodate that long term plan.  Now in all likelihood, they're going to have to tear out that new Good Hope Rd. overpass after 10 years of operation.  Derp!
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: hobsini2 on February 16, 2013, 01:06:20 AM
Triple, I kind of wished that WisDOT would use the same practice that ISTHA uses on all overpasses. Have there be enough room (pier width) for extra lanes on top of the 3 lanes plus shoulders. When they widened 355 a couple years ago, they did not have to redo any of the bridges except for the one at Maple Ave. Something like this: https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=I-355+at+63rd+St&aq=&sll=39.739318,-89.266507&sspn=10.74076,21.972656&vpsrc=0&t=h&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=63rd+St+%26+Interstate+355,+Woodridge,+DuPage,+Illinois&ll=41.771376,-88.045077&spn=0.010178,0.021458&z=16&cbll=41.771552,-88.045257&panoid=jvlGPD-3mcCRC3W0KsWj7w&cbp=12,0,,0,0&ei=diEfUcCRMuXzwQGW_IDgCg&pw=2
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Stephane Dumas on February 16, 2013, 11:10:38 AM
I taught of an idea who might be a bit too far-fetched, but I decided to post it anyway. ^^;

How about converting some adjacent streets into service roads along I-43? Jean-Nicolet road could be reconverted as a southbound service road and Port Washington into a northbound service road even if Port Washington road is not close to I-43 in some places.  http://goo.gl/maps/pAHWA 
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on March 11, 2013, 03:17:33 PM
On Wednesday, I attended a PIM for the upcoming Hoan Bridge and Lake Interchange redecking.
The maps they had up are here:
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/794hoan/public.htm (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/794hoan/public.htm)

The meeting was held in the SEWRPC building in downtown which lies in the shadow of the Marquette Interchange on St. Paul Ave.  Damn that thing looks cool from underneath, too.

Starting next fall, WisDOT will redeck the Hoan Bridge completely.  They're taking it down to the steel structure.  They'll do southbound first, be done by Summerfest 2014 then do the northbound lanes after festival season.
WisDOT will be employing a zipper lane during construction with two lanes in the direction of commuter travel, one against.  That should be pretty cool.  They will also construct a temporary ramp on the ground by Lincoln Memorial Drive so traffic can bypass closed bridges in the Lake Interchange; essentially, traffic will exit at Lincoln Memorial and use a temporary ramp to connect to the existing WB entrance ramp.  If you think that WB corner on 794 is tight now, it's got nothing on this temporary setup we'll have.

The Lake Interchange and all the ramps east of the river will be resurfaced while the entrance/exit ramps to/from Jackson & Van Buren Streets will be completely replaced with new bridges.

So that's what's happening starting next year, but a little further on the horizon there might be some interesting stuff going on there.  I showed the redesign I made in the fictional thread to some engineers, but before I did, there were a couple other people there pitching another good idea on what to do with Lake Interchange.  They had a nice rendering of Lincoln Memorial Drive continuing south between the Hoan Bridge ramps and connecting to Harbor Drive.  From there, they proposed that a road continue west over the Milwaukee River via an abandoned railroad r/w and tie into Florida Street in the Walker's Point neighborhood.  Well I thought that was pretty awesome and worked it into my Lake Interchange concept.
So you don't have to hunt for it in the redesigning interchanges thread, here it is:
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n208/triplemultiplex/Interchanges/Lakev2.jpg?t=1335734648)

As for my proposal, the SEWRPC engineers I talked to were reasonably impressed.  Apparently they are kicking around some similar ideas regarding having a single WB entrance/EB exit east of the river rather than two.  They liked how I moved all the ramps to the right side. I get the impression that's something they might not be doing for Jackson/Van Buren Streets since they are rebuilding them completely as-is next year.
Unless I misunderstood, there seems to be talk from the city of eliminating the ramps between Lincoln Memorial Drive and the Hoan Bridge in their ultimate design.  That seems a tad foolish to me as Lincoln Memorial Drive functions very well as an artery for east side neighborhoods.
Regardless, it seems a lot of people are really high on the idea of locating Milwaukee's next great skyscraper at the junction of Lincoln Memorial Drive and Clybourn Avenue.  So this Lake Interchange land that would get freed up by a redesign won't sit vacant for years like the Park East land.

"Lakefront Gateway Project" ... whole bunch about this is showing up online... give it a search.

(http://localtvwiti.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/gateway-3.jpg)

What you think Triple? Little confusing. Not sure why there's 3 medians approaching the Clybourn/Lincoln Memorial intersection. And Clybourn appears to be a 2-way instead of 1-way. Would be AWESOME if they made all of Clybourn a 2 way, would help a ton.

Why most people would use that lower (new) intersection to get onto 794 WB ... I have no idea. Turn onto clybourn and turn left at Jackson.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on March 11, 2013, 04:19:00 PM
Why most people would use that lower (new) intersection to get onto 794 WB ... I have no idea. Turn onto clybourn and turn left at Jackson.

I'm not too sure.  My guess is they'll do something with the signal timing on Clybourn to make it more appealing to just get on at Lincoln Memorial.  Over all, I'm not sure how much I like this plan in its entirety.  It looks like they're cheaping out and not reconfiguring the screwy stretch of 794 between the river and the Hoan.  They need to get rid of all those left entrances and exits.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on March 11, 2013, 05:21:10 PM

"Lakefront Gateway Project" ... whole bunch about this is showing up online... give it a search.

(http://localtvwiti.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/gateway-3.jpg)

What you think Triple? Little confusing. Not sure why there's 3 medians approaching the Clybourn/Lincoln Memorial intersection.

Well the three medians are from surface street continuing south under the bridge flanked by the exit and entrance ramps to/from the south.

Why most people would use that lower (new) intersection to get onto 794 WB ... I have no idea. Turn onto clybourn and turn left at Jackson.
[/quote]

I agree. Properly configured, there doesn't need to be a separate exit/entrance for "the Lakefront" to/from the west.  That's why I came up with my design.  I didn't expect them to do major reconfiguring, so that proposal is more in line with what I was told at the PIM last year.
The left hand ramps at this location don't bother me as much due to commuting patterns.  A large percentage of the traffic gets on and off there.  Ideally, I'd like to switch 'em to the right, but I can tolerate them as is, I suppose.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: hobsini2 on March 11, 2013, 06:58:37 PM
One thing that I noticed over the weekend that annoyed me is that aside from Lincoln Memorial, there is no eastbound/southbound entrance ramp to the Lake Frwy/Parkway if you are coming down say Water St, like I was Saturday. I ended up taking Water south to St Paul east to Van Buren north to Michigan east to Lincoln Memorial south to get on the Hoan Bridge.  I thought at one point there was another eastbound/southbound entrance near 2nd St but I could not find it.  Anyway, just my obs. They need another eastbound/southbound entrance ramp.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on March 11, 2013, 07:28:03 PM
One thing that I noticed over the weekend that annoyed me is that aside from Lincoln Memorial, there is no eastbound/southbound entrance ramp to the Lake Frwy/Parkway if you are coming down say Water St, like I was Saturday. I ended up taking Water south to St Paul east to Van Buren north to Michigan east to Lincoln Memorial south to get on the Hoan Bridge.  I thought at one point there was another eastbound/southbound entrance near 2nd St but I could not find it.  Anyway, just my obs. They need another eastbound/southbound entrance ramp.

Could've gone straight from Water street -> Michigan -> Lincoln Memorial? If you're south of Michigan already... lol do a U-turn! Cuts out all that south-of-the-freeway stuff.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: hobsini2 on March 11, 2013, 07:38:04 PM
One thing that I noticed over the weekend that annoyed me is that aside from Lincoln Memorial, there is no eastbound/southbound entrance ramp to the Lake Frwy/Parkway if you are coming down say Water St, like I was Saturday. I ended up taking Water south to St Paul east to Van Buren north to Michigan east to Lincoln Memorial south to get on the Hoan Bridge.  I thought at one point there was another eastbound/southbound entrance near 2nd St but I could not find it.  Anyway, just my obs. They need another eastbound/southbound entrance ramp.

Could've gone straight from Water street -> Michigan -> Lincoln Memorial? If you're south of Michigan already... lol do a U-turn! Cuts out all that south-of-the-freeway stuff.

I would have taken Michigan had I known there was not an entrance off St Paul.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Revive 755 on March 11, 2013, 09:11:41 PM
I'm not too sure.  My guess is they'll do something with the signal timing on Clybourn to make it more appealing to just get on at Lincoln Memorial.

Given that downtown Milwaukee already has abysmal signal coordination . . .

The author of the Lakefront Gateway Map could have done a better job and differentiated between through lanes and dedicated turn lanes.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on March 12, 2013, 03:05:25 PM
The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal did a write up on the Lakefront Gateway today.

http://www.jsonline.com/business/lakefront-road-work-to-open-land-for-development-eo93sv2-196948891.html (http://www.jsonline.com/business/lakefront-road-work-to-open-land-for-development-eo93sv2-196948891.html)

It was even cause for two time gubernatorial rivals Scott Walker and Tom Barrett to be on the same side of something.  Amazing.


This 3d view uses that same ramp plan above.
(http://media.jsonline.com/images/LAKEFRONT12G.jpg)

It should be noted that the proposed building at current ramp terminals is more hypothetical than the two north of Clybourn Ave.  Those are concrete plans at this point; especially that 833 Michigan.
Also the square tower for Northwestern Mutual is just a place holder.  There are no designs for that new building yet, but it's definitely happening.

Looks pretty good to me.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on July 31, 2013, 12:42:37 PM
Update on alternatives for the Stadium interchange study, courtesy of the Milwaukee Business Journal (admittedly not a lot here we didn't already know):

Stadium Interchange proposal calls for 8 lanes, potential double-decker

Sean Ryan
Reporter-
The Business Journal

The Stadium Interchange and a stretch of Interstate 94 would be rebuilt with eight lanes, with a possible double-decker segment near Miller Park, under a plan proposed by the Wisconsin Department of Transportation.

The rest can be found here: http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2013/07/30/stadium-interchange-proposal-calls-for.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2013/07/30/stadium-interchange-proposal-calls-for.html)
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: FightingIrish on July 31, 2013, 03:36:10 PM
Update on alternatives for the Stadium interchange study, courtesy of the Milwaukee Business Journal (admittedly not a lot here we didn't already know):

Stadium Interchange proposal calls for 8 lanes, potential double-decker

Sean Ryan
Reporter-
The Business Journal

The Stadium Interchange and a stretch of Interstate 94 would be rebuilt with eight lanes, with a possible double-decker segment near Miller Park, under a plan proposed by the Wisconsin Department of Transportation.

The rest can be found here: http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2013/07/30/stadium-interchange-proposal-calls-for.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2013/07/30/stadium-interchange-proposal-calls-for.html)

That area west of Miller Park is pretty tricky. It's a cemetary owned by the Veterans Administration and it is also a national monument. I-94 is sandwiched in there pretty tight. WISDOT wants to expand the whole thing to 8 lanes, but in order to do it without the double decks, they'd have to make the lanes narrower, eliminate the shoulder and lose the interchange with Hawley Rd. The two decks would give each direction a little breathing room through there.

As long as it relieves congestion and gets rid of all those nasty left lane exits, I'm fine with it.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on July 31, 2013, 08:37:42 PM
^^
And as I mentioned elsewhere, there are graves that are very near the freeway there that are legally 'sealed' and thus unable to be moved, this due to an unknown disease that struck down those buried there and the needs for public health and safety at the time of their deaths (late 19th or early 20th century).

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on August 12, 2013, 08:52:54 PM
I attended the PIM on 7/31.

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/94stadiumint/docs/pim4fullcorridor.pdf

Pretty much boils down double decker vs not.

My comment card wanted the double decker! Rest of it looks sweet. Very happy how this is coming out.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: FightingIrish on August 13, 2013, 11:11:19 PM
I attended the PIM on 7/31.

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/94stadiumint/docs/pim4fullcorridor.pdf

Pretty much boils down double decker vs not.

My comment card wanted the double decker! Rest of it looks sweet. Very happy how this is coming out.

They pretty much have to do the double decker past the cemetaries.

The alternate idea of narrowing the lanes and getting rid of the shoulder to add the fourth lane sounds pretty scary.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on December 01, 2013, 08:26:41 PM
Haven't been thru the MKE in a while, but a nighttime drive a couple Fridays ago offered a glimpse of the Zoo Interchange project.  Guess I wasn't paying close attention to it online and didn't know they were replacing the Cleveland Avenue overpass until I drove under the newly completed one.  Seems wide enough for plenty of additional future lanes.

I only saw the south and west legs at that time.  I should get a better look at the whole project come Christmas time.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: JREwing78 on December 01, 2013, 10:35:14 PM
I attended the PIM on 7/31.

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/94stadiumint/docs/pim4fullcorridor.pdf

Pretty much boils down double decker vs not.

My comment card wanted the double decker! Rest of it looks sweet. Very happy how this is coming out.

They pretty much have to do the double decker past the cemetaries.

The alternate idea of narrowing the lanes and getting rid of the shoulder to add the fourth lane sounds pretty scary.

I'm curious what costs would be saved by keeping the double-decker option, but losing the Hawley Rd access. It's a pretty short-spaced interchange (~ 1/2 mile between the 68th/70th exit and US-41/Hwy 341 exit), not to mention being right up against the cemetery. O'Connor and Kearney can be extended down to Hawley, with a U-turn at 68th to allow exiting WBD I-94 traffic to reach Hawley Rd.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on December 02, 2013, 12:51:18 AM
I attended the PIM on 7/31.

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/94stadiumint/docs/pim4fullcorridor.pdf

Pretty much boils down double decker vs not.

My comment card wanted the double decker! Rest of it looks sweet. Very happy how this is coming out.

They pretty much have to do the double decker past the cemetaries.

The alternate idea of narrowing the lanes and getting rid of the shoulder to add the fourth lane sounds pretty scary.

I'm curious what costs would be saved by keeping the double-decker option, but losing the Hawley Rd access. It's a pretty short-spaced interchange (~ 1/2 mile between the 68th/70th exit and US-41/Hwy 341 exit), not to mention being right up against the cemetery. O'Connor and Kearney can be extended down to Hawley, with a U-turn at 68th to allow exiting WBD I-94 traffic to reach Hawley Rd.

Locals would probably be very vocal against closing the Hawley access. Hawley is a major commuter route and a lack of direct access there would probably create a bunch of problems. I'm intrigued by the idea of extending the access roads and adding a Texas u-turn, but I'd like to see it modeled before I'd personally endorse it.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on December 02, 2013, 04:26:04 PM
Number of overhead signs (and their gantries) have been replaced on the freeway part of WI-145. Some (all?) parts of it that were closed for repaving are also back open.

This http://goo.gl/maps/DPxJ4 gantry and signs have also been replaced.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: tchafe1978 on December 02, 2013, 10:11:38 PM
Number of overhead signs (and their gantries) have been replaced on the freeway part of WI-145. Some (all?) parts of it that were closed for repaving are also back open.

This http://goo.gl/maps/DPxJ4 gantry and signs have also been replaced.

That's not WI 145, that's I-43. Did you link the wrong image?
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on December 02, 2013, 11:10:59 PM
Number of overhead signs (and their gantries) have been replaced on the freeway part of WI-145. Some (all?) parts of it that were closed for repaving are also back open.

This http://goo.gl/maps/DPxJ4 gantry and signs have also been replaced.

That's not WI 145, that's I-43. Did you link the wrong image?

I know it's not. Hence the "also" in that sentence... meaning "in addition to" ... related in the sign changing part but not that it's the same road.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: tchafe1978 on December 03, 2013, 10:35:01 AM
Sorry, I misunderstood what you wrote.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on January 19, 2014, 02:39:55 PM
Replacement of EB I-794 has begun.
Traffic is using the WB lanes while Hoan Bridge is redecked and the elevated bridges east of the Milwaukee River are replaced.
(http://projects.511wi.gov/image/image_gallery?uuid=22735090-8037-41bd-8cfe-e35a9715aca9&groupId=50039&t=1378934626180)

The temporary configuration includes a zipper lane over the Hoan Bridge that will give two lanes to the appropriate direction during morning and evening rush hours.
I believe this is the first use of such a mechanism in the state of Wisconsin.

All ramps are being replaced as-is in this rebuild; left hand ramps and all.  But I've grumbled about that already.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on January 19, 2014, 03:23:10 PM
I've driven through that area and want to get some footage. Very neat temp setup. They've created some new signs too, as well as modified some old ones (green out + demounting some shields/arrows/text).
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on January 20, 2014, 10:05:15 AM
I just hope that WisDOT will be using "Lincoln Memorial Dr" instead of "Lakefront" on the BGSes for that interchange.

 :poke:

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: DaBigE on January 27, 2014, 12:39:08 PM
New renderings for the redesigned Lakefront Interchange: http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/blog/2014/01/lakefront-gateway-redesign-draws.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/blog/2014/01/lakefront-gateway-redesign-draws.html)
Work is supposed to begin after work on the Hoan is finished.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on January 27, 2014, 12:56:29 PM
thanks for sharing! The changes look great.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on January 29, 2014, 09:32:16 PM
I agree, very interesting.  Too bad they weren't able to broaden the EB to SB I-794 turn, though.

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on February 16, 2014, 08:39:44 PM
Set of photos I took of some of the I-794 work.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/colinstu/sets/72157641087518385/

Camera died halfway through :/ was going to show the 794 West signs/situation too / lake interchange + some zoo-related pics but yeah... maybe another week.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Jim920 on February 16, 2014, 11:09:00 PM
Nice pictures!  Has the speed limit on the Parkway been increased?  Last I knew it was 40 and has been since it opened, but I see 2 SL-50 signs in one of your pics. It's after the pictures the with "Oklahoma Ave. 3/4 mile" signs.

Set of photos I took of some of the I-794 work.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/colinstu/sets/72157641087518385/

Camera died halfway through :/ was going to show the 794 West signs/situation too / lake interchange + some zoo-related pics but yeah... maybe another week.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on February 16, 2014, 11:23:45 PM
I'm pretty sure it was 45 for awhile, and yes, ever since the intersection with Oklahoma has been reconfigured to be a seagull intersection (and some of the lanes/shoulders moved around) it's been 50. It's great! Used to be a terrible speed trap, much more manageable now. It's also been extended further south than it was years ago too. Some of the roads around the airport also have been updated around that same time.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on April 08, 2014, 11:58:01 PM
Draft EIS is up for the I-43 rebuild and expansion from Silver Spring Drive to WI 60.

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/43/environ.htm (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/43/environ.htm)

The good stuff is in appendix A: Maps of the preferred alternative, including some options for Brown Deer and County Line Roads they won't use.
ftp://ftp.dot.wi.gov/dtsd/projects/se/43/eisappendixa.pdf (http://ftp://ftp.dot.wi.gov/dtsd/projects/se/43/eisappendixa.pdf)

Looks like the DDI won out at Brown Deer Rd. It'll be a race to see whether this one or a couple proposed in Madison come to fruition first.
County Line Road is going to become more of an interchange for Port Washington Road.

The most important element is the expansion to 6 lanes; something this freeway has needed for decades.

PIM's for the draft EIS will go down the last week of April.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on April 09, 2014, 08:26:54 AM
Looking great. Will be a blast to drive on this when it's complete! Hopefully they go with the DDI and not the diamond.

I wonder if and when they'll be looking at Silver Spring to North Ave.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: DaBigE on April 09, 2014, 09:03:46 AM
Looks like the DDI won out at Brown Deer Rd. It'll be a race to see whether this one or a couple proposed in Madison come to fruition first.
County Line Road is going to become more of an interchange for Port Washington Road.

There's also at least one in the Appleton area in the works as well...as part of the 441 expansion.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: WarrenWallace on April 09, 2014, 02:42:57 PM
Also with the I-39/90 at the WI 11 West (Avalon Road) interchange.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SSOWorld on April 09, 2014, 06:38:31 PM
Death Diamonds  :-o
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on April 09, 2014, 07:38:08 PM
Looks like the DDI won out at Brown Deer Rd. It'll be a race to see whether this one or a couple proposed in Madison come to fruition first.
County Line Road is going to become more of an interchange for Port Washington Road.

There's also at least one in the Appleton area in the works as well...as part of the 441 expansion.

The latest that I have heard is that it would be at US 10 east/Oneida St in Appleton (on the Calumet-Winnebago County line).  WisDOT is most seriously looking at roundabouts at two of the others (Racine St and WI 47) in Winnebago County.

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on June 09, 2014, 04:56:09 PM
Having seen enough big-ticket system interchange reconstructions in recent years, I find it interesting the similarities they share.  Especially the way they work their way into the core of the interchange from all directions.  You need the space to move traffic around the spots you need to work on, so that means tackling those nearby overpasses and service interchanges first.
I get a kick out of some of the temporary configurations that need to be utilized.  When I came through the Zoo Interchange last weekend, the NB->WB movement was shunted over into what had been the left shoulder of EB 94 so crews could work on the new railroad overpass.
Or the way the new Greenfield Ave overpass has its support columns in what was once the middle of the NB carriageway.
The Marquette rebuild had one ramp where a single tub girder and its requisite support columns sat alone like that for over a year.  It was necessary to put that one section in earlier than the rest of the ramp because later on, it would be too difficult to lift the girders into place.
It's also marvelous how little additional right-of-way has been needed for some of these projects.  Mostly, it seems to be an artifact of not wanting to put in expensive retaining walls for depressed and elevated segments, so they just snagged enough r/w to use earthen slopes.  But generations later, it's extremely useful in improving interchanges and expanding capacity.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: merrycilantro on July 02, 2014, 10:59:40 AM
Call me late to breakfast, but have they decided yet on whether or not to double deck I-94?
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on July 02, 2014, 02:38:16 PM
Call me late to breakfast, but have they decided yet on whether or not to double deck I-94?

Nothing has been decided for sure.  The draft EIS is scheduled to come out later this year and will include selection of a preferred alternative.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on July 12, 2014, 12:01:10 PM
anyone else hear about this? 54-hour long full closure of I-94 east and west around the zoo? http://www.wisn.com/news/full-freeway-closure-of-i94-scheduled-for-july-1821/26866282#!bdqN9M

Fun times!
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on July 12, 2014, 03:48:16 PM
Also... Google has FINALLY updated milwaukee & vicinity aerial maps!

Google maps seems to fade between the few year old ones and new ones from 4/4/2014 depending where you are/how zoomed you're in, while Google Earth will currently show you just the new ones. Having a blast looking around at everything right now... might be easier now to actually get things on Google Map Maker now!
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on October 05, 2014, 04:49:22 PM
A quick note about some land that was opened up by the Marquette Interchange reconstruction.
Marquette University just bought it for future expansion of their campus (along with the blocks east and west of the vacant one.)

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/277739561.html (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/277739561.html)

This block was once occupied by a pigtail on ramp from Clyborn Ave to WB I-94
Located here:
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=43.03670,-87.92067&z=18&t=S (http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=43.03670,-87.92067&z=18&t=S)
Used to look like this:
http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials.php?scale=2000&lon=-87.906837463379&lat=43.041809082031&year=2005 (http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials.php?scale=2000&lon=-87.906837463379&lat=43.041809082031&year=2005)

The block was used as a staging area for the Marquette rebuild and has sat empty since the project wrapped.  This is good news for MKE, since I don't think it will take long for Marquette University to start building stuff there and rejuvenate this little corner of downtown.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on November 15, 2014, 04:51:57 AM
Anyone have any insight as to why WisDOT halted plans for an I-94 interchange at Calhoun Rd.?  It came up in a discussion on another forum and I have no idea what happened to it. I remember the freeway being rebuilt over Calhoun a few years ago, but no ramps were ever installed. If I had to guess, perhaps it had something to do with the local match?
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on November 15, 2014, 09:27:41 AM
There were plans for an interchange there? 94 was built over Calhoun decades ago... sure there was a repaving project not that long ago but an interchange was never apart of it.

After some googling I guess there was some talk of it (and plans being drawn) but it sounded like some locals didn't want it. I believe its proximity to Moorland Blvd 1 mile west also isn't helping. If there truly was a traffic problem here, they'd build it. But with WisDOT's upgrades to Greenfield & Bluemound roads which are parallel to 94, they think those are more than capable of getting drivers to Calhoun. (I believe so too).

I'm sure there will be an interchange built there eventually... but it's going to be well over 10 yrs away.

I'd love to see them change up WI-16 with I-94... make it a full T interchange or something (and do something interesting with Hwy T / Grandview Rd)
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: tchafe1978 on November 15, 2014, 10:55:56 AM
I grew up in Brookfield not far from where I-94 goes over Calhoun Rd. There was talk for years about building an interchange at Calhoun Rd., or even a split diamond between Brookfield Rd. and Calhoun Rd. Part of the argument for it was that it would help serve the large corporate park just east of Brookfield Rd. north of I-94 and south of Bluemound Rd. But local residents were against it as it would bring too much more traffic onto local streets. I would have been against it too. the nearby interchanges at US 18/Barker Rd and Moorland Rd. are enough. The I-94 bridges over Calhoun Rd were rebuilt a few years ago when Calhoun Rd. was widened through the area. I don't know that there were ever official plans for an interchange, however.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on November 16, 2014, 01:54:50 PM
I remember Calhoun Rd being mentioned in SEWRPC's regional freeway study some 15 years ago.  Nothing more than they recommended looking at it as a possibility.
It probably will never happen because it's not really needed.  Plus there would be impacts to parks and wetlands.
WisDOT replaced the bridges a few years ago so Calhoun Rd could be expanded to four lanes between Blue Mound and Greenfield.

I would speculate there is no service interchange between Moorland and Barker because back in the day, that would've been the area for the system interchange with the proposed Belt Freeway.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: tchafe1978 on November 16, 2014, 11:16:47 PM
You're probably right about that being the area (between Brookfield Rd and Calhoun Rd) for the proposed interchange with the Belt Freeway. Growing up we still had farm fields in our back yard until I was in high school. It was one of the last prime undeveloped areas in Brookfield, and I remember my mom telling me once that there was once a freeway planned to go through there. So instead of having cornfields and an old farmstead to play in as a kid, I could have had a freeway in our back yard.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on November 19, 2014, 08:23:32 AM
DEIS is out. Got mail about the PIM too (december).

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/94stadiumint/docs/I-94_East-West_Corridor_DEIS_November_2014.pdf

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/94stadiumint/environ.htm

Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on December 02, 2014, 09:03:24 AM
http://www.jsonline.com/news/traffic/transportation-panel-adds-2-major-road-projects-totalling-670-million-b99400811z1-284402741.html

JSonline article about some new projects (that need to be approved!) and how some other projects were scrapped @ the end of article.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: jhuntin1 on December 02, 2014, 09:09:15 PM
At least someone is thinking about widening I-43 between Silver Spring and WI-60. The Milwaukee County section could surely use widening, but does the Ozaukee County section merit it? At least it finally got repaved over the summer.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on December 02, 2014, 10:46:18 PM
That's already been talked about for awhile. Check out http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/43/public.htm for all the plans (new interchange design, widening, etc). Can't wait for that to move forward.

Yeah between Silver Spring and North Ave definitely needs a rework too (at least 4 lanes... or 3 + 2 CD lanes each way or something). South of Marquette to Howard Ave also needs a similar upgrade. But those will probably not happen until much after 2020 if I had to guess...
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: FightingIrish on December 03, 2014, 04:14:04 PM
At least someone is thinking about widening I-43 between Silver Spring and WI-60. The Milwaukee County section could surely use widening, but does the Ozaukee County section merit it? At least it finally got repaved over the summer.

Efforts to widen I-43 in northern Milwaukee County have long been stymied by north shore NIMBYs, who apparently preferred bottlenecks, traffic jams and accidents to an actual free-flowing busy highway.

And the lane expansion to Grafton makes sense. Ozaukee County has been growing rapidly, and there has been very heavy retail development around TH60 over the past few years.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on December 03, 2014, 06:55:56 PM
I-43 through the rich north shore suburbs has always been a terrible facility.  Poor sightlines, short ramps, no left shoulder, it floods easily under Greentree and Good Hope. The transition from 3 lanes to 2 NB is a daily bottleneck.  WisDOT has a study going, as colinstu pointed out that's been active for a few years now.  My own observations have been that Grafton would be a good place to end/start the 6-lane facility.  The JS mentions traffic counts not keeping pace, but that freeway needs to be improved to handle what it already gets.

South of this project, some auxiliary lanes between exits would help things a bit as an interim improvement.  This would require widening some overpasses as there is not enough room between existing support columns.

I was not aware of any formal study about a bypass around Beloit.  I assume that would've been around the south side into IL since it talks about interstate cooperation and junk.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: davenh on December 10, 2014, 12:04:11 PM
The Hoan Bridge project moves into phase 2 this weekend. Changes include:
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel article here: http://www.jsonline.com/news/traffic/dot-warns-of-downtown-ramp-closures-b99406573z1-285339271.html (http://www.jsonline.com/news/traffic/dot-warns-of-downtown-ramp-closures-b99406573z1-285339271.html)
Wisconsin DOT Hoan Bridge Project site: http://projects.511wi.gov/web/hoan-bridge-project (http://projects.511wi.gov/web/hoan-bridge-project)
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SSOWorld on December 10, 2014, 07:20:58 PM
http://projects.511wi.gov/web/hoan-bridge-project/project-history

nice - Bessert got a nod from WisDOT on the Hoan history
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on February 17, 2015, 03:46:53 PM
WisDOT has decided against the double decker option for I-94 between the stadium and 70th Street. Read more here:

State rejects double-deck lanes for I-94 east-west (http://m.jsonline.com/news/i-94-expansion-plan-to-be-revealed-by-wisconsin-transportation-officials-b99446305z1-292188271.html)
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on February 17, 2015, 06:09:16 PM
Personally, I would have put that stretch of Interstate 94 into a tunnel. However, that would have required a full six month closure, and would have jacked up the price. Still, 11 foot lanes with 2 foot shoulders is going to be unpleasant. It may please the neighbors, but it's going to present problems down the road.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on February 17, 2015, 06:13:23 PM
This sucks :/ I hope something at that meeting makes them change their minds and pick the correct choice.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on February 17, 2015, 06:59:08 PM
I don't think the expense of the double-deck option is worth it.  Especially for a bunch of dead bodies.

The whole thing is extremely silly, in my opinion.  We'll force dozens of living people to leave their homes and places of work to expand highways, but godforbid we have to move one single worm-eaten corpse. :roll


WisDOT made the correct decision.  It's not worth another $100 million or whatever.
Maybe someday people will get over their icky feelings about cemeteries and we'll turn them into useful public spaces in our cities.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: jhuntin1 on February 17, 2015, 07:20:24 PM
Driving home from Milwaukee yesterday and I heard a WisDOT spot on the radio talking about the upcoming Zoo Interchange construction. It said that one of the ramps, I-894 north to I-94 west I think, is going to be closed until the end of 2015. It then said that the ramp from I-94 west to I-894 south is going to be closed until the end of 2017. Did I hear that wrong, or is that ramp really going to be closed for 3 years?
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: jwags on February 17, 2015, 07:34:27 PM
Driving home from Milwaukee yesterday and I heard a WisDOT spot on the radio talking about the upcoming Zoo Interchange construction. It said that one of the ramps, I-894 north to I-94 west I think, is going to be closed until the end of 2015. It then said that the ramp from I-94 west to I-894 south is going to be closed until the end of 2017. Did I hear that wrong, or is that ramp really going to be closed for 3 years?
You heard it right. 3 years.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on February 17, 2015, 08:06:28 PM
The announcement was made a couple weeks ago.

Marquette and Mitchell projects had some pretty big and long closures too. It's going to suck before it gets better, nothing new.

Sure the doubledecker would be expensive, but even if they did chop into the grave sites I still don't think they'd manage to have a full interchange with Hawley, unless they really bit into the land on each side and actually had room for all the C-D lanes like they planned with the double decker. Taking just enough land for 12" lanes and proper shoulders still wouldn't allow for enough room / etc for full Hawley access.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on February 17, 2015, 09:26:26 PM
I don't think the expense of the double-deck option is worth it.  Especially for a bunch of dead bodies.

The whole thing is extremely silly, in my opinion.  We'll force dozens of living people to leave their homes and places of work to expand highways, but godforbid we have to move one single worm-eaten corpse. :roll


WisDOT made the correct decision.  It's not worth another $100 million or whatever.
Maybe someday people will get over their icky feelings about cemeteries and we'll turn them into useful public spaces in our cities.

I completely agree with you. I don't think that the double deck action was at all worth the money it would've cost. I also live in the area, and Story Hill is one of the nicest neighborhoods in the city of Milwaukee. It really wouldn't be worth potentially ruining that neighborhood just to avoid moving dead people. Those people are long gone and I seriously doubt that they would care about it. The solution that they came up with isn't without its flaws of course, but is a pretty good compromise.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on February 17, 2015, 09:31:59 PM
Story Hill is far from nice. It might've been nice a few decades ago but it's cramped, dated, and stagnant. It's no different than Wauwatosa and West Allis besides the housing prices are a little more inflated. The people who live there just don't feel like moving 10+ miles out of town to avoid the fact a growing city needs a growing freeway system.

Them saying 3 lanes in each direction is fine is ridiculous and they obviously know nothing about roads or the fact they don't need to be congested if they're ever allowed to be updated. That area will forever be a bottleneck now between the Marquette and the Zoo once that project is complete.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: NE2 on February 17, 2015, 09:43:37 PM
Just because you don't mind adding 10+ miles to your commute because you think Algore is a hoaxster doesn't mean you're right.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on February 18, 2015, 10:52:26 AM
Don't forget the issue of those legally 'sealed' graves in that cemetery, some very close to the freeway, something brought up to me at a WisDOT PIM on I-94 that I was at back in the late 1990s.  They were 'sealed' as a public health and safety expedient back in the late 19th or early 20th century because of the deaths being due to an unknown seriously contagious disease.

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on February 18, 2015, 12:58:39 PM
Can't disease not live without a host? I don't see how it should be a problem.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Brandon on February 18, 2015, 02:29:49 PM
Can't disease not live without a host? I don't see how it should be a problem.

There are cases of diseases (typically virii) remaining viable for centuries after the host has died.  For example, people are very careful when exhuming a person who died as a result of the 1918 flu pandemic.  That virus may still be viable.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on February 18, 2015, 03:06:26 PM
Story Hill is far from nice. It might've been nice a few decades ago but it's cramped, dated, and stagnant. It's no different than Wauwatosa and West Allis besides the housing prices are a little more inflated. The people who live there just don't feel like moving 10+ miles out of town to avoid the fact a growing city needs a growing freeway system.


Story Hill...not to mention Wauwatosa and West Allis...are just fine.  Ripping out good urban neighborhoods to expand a highway, when there are other options are available is short-sighted. 
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on February 18, 2015, 08:03:05 PM
Well, they weren't going to tear down any homes to do the expansion.  The neighborhood impacts of the double-deck freeway would be visual and auditory.
It's the 21st Century though.  A butt-ugly double-deck freeway is so 60 years ago.

More generally, I have to wonder how the existing freeway would function had it been built without the left-hand entrances/exits.  Three lanes (with aux lanes between exits) might have been manageable.

Don't forget the issue of those legally 'sealed' graves in that cemetery, some very close to the freeway, something brought up to me at a WisDOT PIM on I-94 that I was at back in the late 1990s.  They were 'sealed' as a public health and safety expedient back in the late 19th or early 20th century because of the deaths being due to an unknown seriously contagious disease.

"Unknown disease" from that time period doesn't exactly worry me since they didn't know squat compared to now.
It was probably just cryptosporidium. ;)
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Roadguy on February 18, 2015, 08:06:12 PM
Personally, I would have put that stretch of Interstate 94 into a tunnel. However, that would have required a full six month closure, and would have jacked up the price. Still, 11 foot lanes with 2 foot shoulders is going to be unpleasant. It may please the neighbors, but it's going to present problems down the road.

Mn/DOT striped 11 foot lanes on 94 between 280 and 35W in Minneapolis.  This is a pretty significant stretch (3 miles) with shoulders ranging from 1' under bridges to 2' inside and 4' outside shoulders (They vary like the proposed stretch of 94 through the cemeteries).  This was done after the bridge collapse in 2007 when 280 and 94 were made the detours for 35W.  After the bridge re-opened Mn/DOT under political pressure and public requests sought FHWA approval to maintain the configuration.  Eventually the request was granted.  As part of the agreement Mn/DOT placed crash pull off areas (wider shoulders) in areas where they would fit (they needed a long enough length between bridges and sign structures).  They also added dynamic message signs over each lane so if there was an incident, they could inform drivers of closed lanes ahead.

Mn/DOT has also done 11 foot lanes on 35W northbound between 42nd street and 94 south of downtown Minneapolis with the same narrow shoulders as they have on 94.  The same mitigation measures have been implemented along this stretch due to the lack of shoulders.

Both operate better due to the extra lane and their crash rates have not increased due to the lack of a shoulder.  People still drive it at 60-65 mph (Both signed at 55mph) as they had before the re-striping when there was only 3 lanes in each direction.  Of course that is at times when there is no congestion.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on May 26, 2015, 06:53:40 PM
I was in Milwaukee over the weekend and the work on the Zoo Interchange is starting to get impressive.  That has to be a huge pain outbound in the evenings with only two lanes.  The temporary orange lane striping didn't strike me as particularly useful.  Maybe because it was overcast at the time, it didn't 'pop' as much as yellow or white does to my eye.

I figured they would have been able to build the new NB->WB flyover on top of the existing tangle before shutting down the old ramp, but that is not the case.  That sucks to have such a long term closure for such a high-volume movement.  The official detour takes one out to Moorland Rd via I-43 but I would be making up my own detour if I had to go that way.  Off peak, I'd certainly be staying on I-94 through town.

Elsewhere in the city, I saw crews redecking Howard Ave over 43/94.  Shame they couldn't replace the whole damn bridge and make space for a SB auxiliary lane between Holt and Howard.  Same story a little further north at Greenfield Ave.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: DaBigE on May 26, 2015, 07:34:30 PM
The temporary orange lane striping did strike me as particularly useful.  Maybe because it was overcast at the time, it didn't 'pop' as much as yellow or white does to my eye.

That's the second or third iteration of that orange striping experiment. I've only been through there once when it was first put down and it was ok during the day (partly sunny IIRC), but a HUGE failure at night. The HPS lighting made the shade of orange they used back then look completely yellow.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on May 26, 2015, 10:37:38 PM

I figured they would have been able to build the new NB->WB flyover on top of the existing tangle before shutting down the old ramp, but that is not the case.  That sucks to have such a long term closure for such a high-volume movement.  The official detour takes one out to Moorland Rd via I-43 but I would be making up my own detour if I had to go that way.  Off peak, I'd certainly be staying on I-94 through town.

Yeah, I live on the southwest side of Milwaukee, and frequently travel west. Unless it's very busy, it has worked pretty well for me to exit at Greenfield Ave and go up to STH 100, and get on 94 westbound there. Takes about five minutes in moderate traffic. Much better than 43 to Moorland.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on May 27, 2015, 10:40:41 AM
The temporary orange lane striping did strike me as particularly useful.  Maybe because it was overcast at the time, it didn't 'pop' as much as yellow or white does to my eye.

That's the second or third iteration of that orange striping experiment. I've only been through there once when it was first put down and it was ok during the day (partly sunny IIRC), but a HUGE failure at night. The HPS lighting made the shade of orange they used back then look completely yellow.

I made a typo that completely changed the meaning of that sentence, I see.  I meant to say I didn't find it useful. :?
Looks like you figured it out from the context.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on May 28, 2015, 04:17:49 PM
Although it doesn't start till 2019, I look forward to the reconstruction of Interstate 94 between 70th Street and 16th Street. I don't like that they chose the at-grade alignment through the cemetery since it will have narrow lanes and no shoulders. Otherwise, the upcoming project looks good to me.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: peterj920 on May 29, 2015, 01:06:43 AM
I'm looking forward to I-43 being expanded from Silver Spring Dr to Grafton.  Traffic frequently backs up at Silver Spring Drive where the freeway goes from 3 lanes to 2. 
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on April 27, 2016, 10:53:22 AM
This thread hasn't been updated in quite a while. The Zoo interchange work is well underway. By the end of this year, the core should look a lot different than it does now. One of the new flyover ramps is complete and open. I'll try to get out over the next few days and take some pictures to post here.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on April 27, 2016, 11:14:30 AM
I drive through the zoo every day. I should probably take pics and share them more often. :P

There also seems to be a project between exits 294 and 295, beefing up the middle barrier wall and getting it ready for a VMS it appears.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on April 27, 2016, 06:52:40 PM
I've mistaken, actually between 295 and 297.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on April 27, 2016, 08:34:48 PM
This thread hasn't been updated in quite a while.

Yeah once I moved away from Milwaukee, my frequent contributions to this thread dropped considerably.

I tried to drive through the work zone last weekend, but every NB entrance ramp to the Zoo Freeway south of I-94 is closed so I gave up.
Would have been too inconvenient to backtrack to a place I could get on.

Looks like there are only two lanes approaching the interchange from at least 2 directions right now while crews rebuild the mainline sections.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on May 28, 2016, 07:57:07 PM
Here's some recent (kinda crappy) videos I've taken. Best to play these at 2x speed on youtube imo.

Watertown Plank Rd WB to I-41 South

I-41 South to I-94 West / HWY 100

HWY 100 to I-94 East thru zoo, exit at Hawley

Probably the most interesting (recent as far as developments) vid is the last one. The EB lanes have been nearly completed and traffic moved back off of the completed WB lanes. Full exit to 84th st and entrance from 84th should be completed late June, there will be a single lane closure between 70th-hawley too that starts 6/1 and ends late June (something about median work?).

edit: also in the 2nd video, you can see the building of the new EB exit ramps that will go north and south.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on June 04, 2016, 10:05:51 PM
I drove through the Zoo WB today and the size of the new facility is starting to show.  While I lived in MKE, the 76th St park and ride was a frequent meeting place prior to Brewer games so to see that section nearly in its near-final configuration (minus the lane positions) is quite impressive.  The new sound walls around 68th and 84th have transformed the 'feel' of the freeway by doing their job of hiding the neighborhoods from your view.  (Or vise versa, whatever.)

There is clearly a LOT of work to do on the core interchange.  And I sympathize with all the eastbound morning commuters.  It was backed up all the way to Moorland Road in the middle of a Saturday, so I can only imagine how rough that is on a weekday AM.

I noticed a newer VMS on I-94 WB just past Miller Park displaying multiple colors in the form of a red, white and blue I-894 shield.  I have never seen that in Wisconsin before.  Or anywhere, for that matter.  It did not occur to me to snap a picture until I was a ways down the road.  Are multi-colored LED VMS's a thing now?  I have only ever seen that slightly orangy-yellow we are all used to.

Last note for I-94 is the extended stretch of construction for bridge resurfacing/replacements between the last Waukesha exit and the county line.  I couldn't tell if the replacements west of Oconomowoc at Dousman Rd and Golden Lake Rd/CTH BB will accommodate a future 3 lane carriageway.  Too early in the process, plus it's difficult to see going westbound.  I imagine they will as that has been standard practice for bridge replacements on I-94 between Waukesha and Madison for decades.
I feel like the time has long since come to extend that third lane out to Oconomowoc.  And after this construction season, all the bridges will be able to take it.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Joe The Dragon on June 04, 2016, 10:24:48 PM
I drove through the Zoo WB today and the size of the new facility is starting to show.  While I lived in MKE, the 76th St park and ride was a frequent meeting place prior to Brewer games so to see that section nearly in its near-final configuration (minus the lane positions) is quite impressive.  The new sound walls around 68th and 84th have transformed the 'feel' of the freeway by doing their job of hiding the neighborhoods from your view.  (Or vise versa, whatever.)

There is clearly a LOT of work to do on the core interchange.  And I sympathize with all the eastbound morning commuters.  It was backed up all the way to Moorland Road in the middle of a Saturday, so I can only imagine how rough that is on a weekday AM.

I noticed a newer VMS on I-94 WB just past Miller Park displaying multiple colors in the form of a red, white and blue I-894 shield.  I have never seen that in Wisconsin before.  Or anywhere, for that matter.  It did not occur to me to snap a picture until I was a ways down the road.  Are multi-colored LED VMS's a thing now?  I have only ever seen that slightly orangy-yellow we are all used to.

Last note for I-94 is the extended stretch of construction for bridge resurfacing/replacements between the last Waukesha exit and the county line.  I couldn't tell if the replacements west of Oconomowoc at Dousman Rd and Golden Lake Rd/CTH BB will accommodate a future 3 lane carriageway.  Too early in the process, plus it's difficult to see going westbound.  I imagine they will as that has been standard practice for bridge replacements on I-94 between Waukesha and Madison for decades.
I feel like the time has long since come to extend that third lane out to Oconomowoc.  And after this construction season, all the bridges will be able to take it.

ontario Canada  multi-colored LED VMS's. and IL toll way may have some there new ones seems to be able to show more then  orangy-yellow ones.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SSOWorld on June 04, 2016, 10:41:28 PM
Multi-colored VMS's are scattered about WI (Madison, Appleton, Milwaukee (the spot you pointed out) but they just use the amber unless a colorful shield is needed.  New Jersey Turnpike and Garden State Parkway have them as well and boy do they ever use color (green background, proper font, etc)
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on July 29, 2016, 12:51:39 PM
http://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/se/94ew-study/newsletter-summer16.pdf

New newsletter for the 94 E-W (70th-16th st) project.

Wow... some major downgrades mentioned in it... NONE of these have been mentioned or shown in the FEIS previously..

-Hawley road no longer being shifted East ==> shorter distance between 68th and Hawley ramps now (if they even maintain the half interchange alternative they listed in the FEIS earlier)
-No longer reconstructed 27th St
-No longer straightening out the leg of 94 between 25th st and the Marquette interchange, will remain to have that curve to it
-No longer doing braided ramp design between 27th and 35th... only adding an Aux Lane between the two on 94EB (one already exists on WB)

I'm almost hoping they just scrap the project now and give it a look with fresh eyes 5-10 years from now. So many of the improvements they've proposed have been gimped down to the point where it's no longer even worth it IMO. Part of me really wants them to continue as it would be better than what's there now... the other part knows that once they do this construction, it would only prolong the time we'd have to be stuck with this half-assed design instead of just waiting and getting it done properly later.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on July 29, 2016, 04:05:36 PM
Delaying the reconstruction process is not a good option to me. They should design and eventually reconstruct this section ASAP.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on July 29, 2016, 04:54:35 PM
I don't see any maps of the design changes on the project website as yet.
This strikes me as odd:
Quote
The preferred alternative provides freeway access to and from the west at Hawley Road, unlike todayís full interchange. Responding to concerns from West Allis and Milwaukee businesses and residents, WisDOT will build a new roadway connection between Hawley Road and 70th Street in West Allis, about a half mile south of I-94. The new connection:
-Responds to stakeholder comments
-Connects Hawley Road and 70th Street
-Mitigates the partial loss of freeway access at the Hawley Road Interchange
-Requires the relocation of WisDOTís sign shop on Hawley Road
Seems like it would be an eastern extension of Washington Street jogging north a little thru some former Allis-Chalmers Factory territory and meeting 60th opposite Roosevelt Elementary School.
I find it odd because Main Street already provides this connection a lot closer to the freeway.  Sure it's a residential thru street, but it does go thru.
I think the existing local road system is sufficient to funnel traffic to the 68/70th interchange for those seeking access to/from the east.  Seems to have more merit as a local street connecting the former-factory-turned-big-box-retail-center to points northeast independent of any consideration for freeway access.

At least the single greatest problem with this section of freeway is still getting fixed correctly: the left hand ramps at the Stadium Interchange (and Mitchell Blvd.)  That is what really squeezes traffic through there more than anything.  A six lane freeway would have been tolerable much longer if it had been built without those.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on July 29, 2016, 05:11:00 PM
The extension can be found on Page 158 of the FEIS http://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/se/94ew-study/final-eis.pdf

I personally welcome this extension. I live right off of 68th and would hate to have/hear traffic zooming on Main St all day. That new path would also have no stop signs, compared to Main St that has 3 or 4 stops. Also not in a residential area, so safer for pedestrians and local traffic.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: FightingIrish on August 06, 2016, 01:19:41 PM
Main St. is a somewhat acceptable access street between 76th and 70th, but almost completely useless for that purpose between 70th and Hawley. It is strictly a small, low-speed residential street with stop signs. A through street through the Allis-Chalmers property is actually a pretty good idea, but an extended frontage street along I-94 between 68th and Hawley would be really effective.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on August 06, 2016, 02:11:59 PM
A frontage road would affect a lot of homes in that stretch. Wouldn't fly for a second.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: dvferyance on August 06, 2016, 11:24:03 PM
I don't see any maps of the design changes on the project website as yet.
This strikes me as odd:
Quote
The preferred alternative provides freeway access to and from the west at Hawley Road, unlike todayís full interchange. Responding to concerns from West Allis and Milwaukee businesses and residents, WisDOT will build a new roadway connection between Hawley Road and 70th Street in West Allis, about a half mile south of I-94. The new connection:
-Responds to stakeholder comments
-Connects Hawley Road and 70th Street
-Mitigates the partial loss of freeway access at the Hawley Road Interchange
-Requires the relocation of WisDOTís sign shop on Hawley Road
Seems like it would be an eastern extension of Washington Street jogging north a little thru some former Allis-Chalmers Factory territory and meeting 60th opposite Roosevelt Elementary School.
I find it odd because Main Street already provides this connection a lot closer to the freeway.  Sure it's a residential thru street, but it does go thru.
I think the existing local road system is sufficient to funnel traffic to the 68/70th interchange for those seeking access to/from the east.  Seems to have more merit as a local street connecting the former-factory-turned-big-box-retail-center to points northeast independent of any consideration for freeway access.

At least the single greatest problem with this section of freeway is still getting fixed correctly: the left hand ramps at the Stadium Interchange (and Mitchell Blvd.)  That is what really squeezes traffic through there more than anything.  A six lane freeway would have been tolerable much longer if it had been built without those.
The Mitchell Blvd interchange at I-94 is about the worst interchange I have ever seen. It should have been gone many years ago.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: hobsini2 on August 18, 2016, 06:28:53 PM
Multi-colored VMS's are scattered about WI (Madison, Appleton, Milwaukee (the spot you pointed out) but they just use the amber unless a colorful shield is needed.  New Jersey Turnpike and Garden State Parkway have them as well and boy do they ever use color (green background, proper font, etc)
These are also in place on the finished sections of the I-90 Northwest Tollway west of Elgin. They show the travel time as white on a green background.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on December 09, 2016, 07:09:47 PM
I'm going to try and shunt the discussion about the north end of the Stadium Freeway to this thread since it fits better than the general Wisconsin thread.

Concept 1:
(http://urbanmilwaukee.com/wp-content/gallery/temp/concept1.png)

Concept 2:
(http://urbanmilwaukee.com/wp-content/gallery/temp/concept2.png)

Concept 3:
(http://urbanmilwaukee.com/wp-content/gallery/temp/concept3.png)

Concept 4:
(http://urbanmilwaukee.com/wp-content/gallery/temp/concept4.png)

Personally, I like the ones that preserve the Lloyd Street overpass.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Big John on December 12, 2016, 08:19:57 PM
^^ Do they realize they are using a US 175 shield?
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: hobsini2 on December 12, 2016, 11:07:41 PM
^^ Do they realize they are using a US 175 shield?
WisDOT does that a lot in construction zones so I am not surprised that they got too lazy to change the US 41 shield to a proper Wis 175 one.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on December 13, 2016, 07:43:32 PM
Which concept is the most likely to be constructed? If I had to choose, I would pick concept 2. It remains to be seen if any modifications will be made at all.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: dvferyance on December 15, 2016, 12:59:39 PM
The north end of the Stadium Freeway is just fine as is. With how broke the Transportation budget is they should be focused on finishing existing projects not starting new ones.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: GeekJedi on December 15, 2016, 09:49:27 PM
The north end of the Stadium Freeway is just fine as is. With how broke the Transportation budget is they should be focused on finishing existing projects not starting new ones.

I'm guessing you didn't actually read the article...
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: dvferyance on December 16, 2016, 12:12:09 PM
The north end of the Stadium Freeway is just fine as is. With how broke the Transportation budget is they should be focused on finishing existing projects not starting new ones.

I'm guessing you didn't actually read the article...
No but my point is why do we keep starting new projects when we still haven't finished others? I would like to see what we started at least finished first before even thinking about doing anything else.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on December 16, 2016, 12:28:53 PM
The north end of the Stadium Freeway is just fine as is. With how broke the Transportation budget is they should be focused on finishing existing projects not starting new ones.

I'm guessing you didn't actually read the article...
No but my point is why do we keep starting new projects when we still haven't finished others? I would like to see what we started at least finished first before even thinking about doing anything else.

because the world shouldn't stand still just because some projects are currently happening?

Do car makers stop designing and engineering new car models once they've released one?
"Hey guys, new model is out now. Let's take a 5 year break and start up then!"
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Brandon on December 16, 2016, 12:41:18 PM
The north end of the Stadium Freeway is just fine as is. With how broke the Transportation budget is they should be focused on finishing existing projects not starting new ones.

You're in Wisconsin, not Illinois.  You actually have money.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: dvferyance on December 16, 2016, 06:47:24 PM
The I-94 project down to Illinois needs to be finished. It's mostly done in Kenosha County and I have seen lots of new development and that brings in new jobs. Racine County could benefit too if it would be finished. It would bring more jobs to the region. How many jobs would be created by making a slight adjustment to the north end of the stadium? Absolutely zero.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: dvferyance on December 16, 2016, 06:48:04 PM
The I-94 project down to Illinois needs to be finished. It's mostly done in Kenosha County and I have seen lots of new development down there and that brings in new jobs. Racine County could benefit too if it would be finished. It would bring more jobs to the region. How many new jobs would be created by making a slight adjustment to the north end of the stadium? Absolutely zero.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: GeekJedi on December 16, 2016, 08:10:58 PM
The north end of the Stadium Freeway is just fine as is. With how broke the Transportation budget is they should be focused on finishing existing projects not starting new ones.

I'm guessing you didn't actually read the article...
No but my point is why do we keep starting new projects when we still haven't finished others? I would like to see what we started at least finished first before even thinking about doing anything else.

Then you shouldn't comment.

If you had actually taken the time to read the article, rather than just react, you'd find that the city is trying to find ways to pay for it. But, you know, why bother reading...
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on December 16, 2016, 08:39:36 PM
The I-94 project down to Illinois needs to be finished. It's mostly done in Kenosha County and I have seen lots of new development and that brings in new jobs. Racine County could benefit too if it would be finished. It would bring more jobs to the region. How many jobs would be created by making a slight adjustment to the north end of the stadium? Absolutely zero.


Well that's not true.

Regardless that's not the only reason road projects are done.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: FightingIrish on December 18, 2016, 10:59:20 AM
The north end of the Stadium Freeway is just fine as is. With how broke the Transportation budget is they should be focused on finishing existing projects not starting new ones.

I'm guessing you didn't actually read the article...
No but my point is why do we keep starting new projects when we still haven't finished others? I would like to see what we started at least finished first before even thinking about doing anything else.

Then you shouldn't comment.

If you had actually taken the time to read the article, rather than just react, you'd find that the city is trying to find ways to pay for it. But, you know, why bother reading...

Can anyone repost a link to this supposed article? Must have gotten lost somewhere in this thread.

FYI, I don't really see the point to totally reconstructing the Stadium North Freeway, especially when the Stadium Interchange with I-94 needs it more. If the city wants to pay for it, perhaps they should spend the money fixing current streets instead, or find better ways of relieving traffic on Lisbon Ave.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on December 18, 2016, 11:13:01 AM
The north end of the Stadium Freeway is just fine as is. With how broke the Transportation budget is they should be focused on finishing existing projects not starting new ones.

I'm guessing you didn't actually read the article...
No but my point is why do we keep starting new projects when we still haven't finished others? I would like to see what we started at least finished first before even thinking about doing anything else.

Then you shouldn't comment.

If you had actually taken the time to read the article, rather than just react, you'd find that the city is trying to find ways to pay for it. But, you know, why bother reading...

Can anyone repost a link to this supposed article? Must have gotten lost somewhere in this thread.

FYI, I don't really see the point to totally reconstructing the Stadium North Freeway, especially when the Stadium Interchange with I-94 needs it more. If the city wants to pay for it, perhaps they should spend the money fixing current streets instead, or find better ways of relieving traffic on Lisbon Ave.

Triplemultiplex uploaded just the 4 designs to this thread. I posted the article to the Wisconsin thread earlier. It's here
http://urbanmilwaukee.com/2016/12/02/will-dangerous-intersection-finally-be-fixed/

It's just a rebuild of the northern terminus.

There's the I-94 E-W project/study too that tackles the core interchange.
That can be found here http://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/se/94stadiumint/default.aspx
It handles 94 from 70-16th Streets, and not very far north or south of the stadium.
They probably kept the northern terminus out to keep the scope of the project down (to make it look less expensive to not freak out the penny pinchers as much who never want to spend a dime).
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: dvferyance on December 20, 2016, 01:49:38 PM
The I-94 project down to Illinois needs to be finished. It's mostly done in Kenosha County and I have seen lots of new development and that brings in new jobs. Racine County could benefit too if it would be finished. It would bring more jobs to the region. How many jobs would be created by making a slight adjustment to the north end of the stadium? Absolutely zero.


Well that's not true.

Regardless that's not the only reason road projects are done.
Apparently you haven't been down there. There is an enormous Amazon distribution center. The Mars Cheese Castle is expanding. I have seen other new development I am just not sure what it is right now. I don't want to hear any complaining the current projects aren't being finished when new ones keep starting up. It makes perfect sense finish what you have started before starting something else. That really should be very easy to understand. The reality is there is not an unlimited amount of money.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on December 20, 2016, 02:08:17 PM
The I-94 project down to Illinois needs to be finished. It's mostly done in Kenosha County and I have seen lots of new development and that brings in new jobs. Racine County could benefit too if it would be finished. It would bring more jobs to the region. How many jobs would be created by making a slight adjustment to the north end of the stadium? Absolutely zero.


Well that's not true.

Regardless that's not the only reason road projects are done.
Apparently you haven't been down there. There is an enormous Amazon distribution center. The Mars Cheese Castle is expanding. I have seen other new development I am just not sure what it is right now. I don't want to hear any complaining the current projects aren't being finished when new ones keep starting up. It makes perfect sense finish what you have started before starting something else. That really should be very easy to understand. The reality is there is not an unlimited amount of money.


Actually what I said wasn't true was that the slight adjustment wouldn't create any jobs.

And you don't construct projects to their completion before even planning for the next ones.  That is inefficient and a waste of money.  You plan while other projects are being constructed.  If there is too much of a planning backlog, you cut back by either laying off or hiring less planners.  (Which may end up happening if construction projects keep getting delayed.)

My experience is that WIDOT is pretty good at allocating its resources given the boundaries in which it operates, including the political boundaries.  Some random dude on a message board listening to talk radio may *THINK* he knows better, but he very likely does not.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: dvferyance on December 22, 2016, 11:32:31 AM
The I-94 project down to Illinois needs to be finished. It's mostly done in Kenosha County and I have seen lots of new development and that brings in new jobs. Racine County could benefit too if it would be finished. It would bring more jobs to the region. How many jobs would be created by making a slight adjustment to the north end of the stadium? Absolutely zero.


Well that's not true.

Regardless that's not the only reason road projects are done.
Apparently you haven't been down there. There is an enormous Amazon distribution center. The Mars Cheese Castle is expanding. I have seen other new development I am just not sure what it is right now. I don't want to hear any complaining the current projects aren't being finished when new ones keep starting up. It makes perfect sense finish what you have started before starting something else. That really should be very easy to understand. The reality is there is not an unlimited amount of money.


Actually what I said wasn't true was that the slight adjustment wouldn't create any jobs.

And you don't construct projects to their completion before even planning for the next ones.  That is inefficient and a waste of money.  You plan while other projects are being constructed.  If there is too much of a planning backlog, you cut back by either laying off or hiring less planners.  (Which may end up happening if construction projects keep getting delayed.)

My experience is that WIDOT is pretty good at allocating its resources given the boundaries in which it operates, including the political boundaries.  Some random dude on a message board listening to talk radio may *THINK* he knows better, but he very likely does not.
Isn't it just common sense that your main priority should be finishing projects already underway before starting new ones? That make sense when it comes to anything not just road building. Let's finish the zoo and I-94 and I-39/90 then we can talk about doing something else.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on December 22, 2016, 04:26:22 PM
Let's also find sufficient funding for projects before we start them as well.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Rothman on December 22, 2016, 06:06:49 PM
Let's also find sufficient funding for projects before we start them as well.

Well, anything federally funded requires this already.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on December 22, 2016, 09:48:00 PM
The I-94 project down to Illinois needs to be finished. It's mostly done in Kenosha County and I have seen lots of new development and that brings in new jobs. Racine County could benefit too if it would be finished. It would bring more jobs to the region. How many jobs would be created by making a slight adjustment to the north end of the stadium? Absolutely zero.


Well that's not true.

Regardless that's not the only reason road projects are done.
Apparently you haven't been down there. There is an enormous Amazon distribution center. The Mars Cheese Castle is expanding. I have seen other new development I am just not sure what it is right now. I don't want to hear any complaining the current projects aren't being finished when new ones keep starting up. It makes perfect sense finish what you have started before starting something else. That really should be very easy to understand. The reality is there is not an unlimited amount of money.


Actually what I said wasn't true was that the slight adjustment wouldn't create any jobs.

And you don't construct projects to their completion before even planning for the next ones.  That is inefficient and a waste of money.  You plan while other projects are being constructed.  If there is too much of a planning backlog, you cut back by either laying off or hiring less planners.  (Which may end up happening if construction projects keep getting delayed.)

My experience is that WIDOT is pretty good at allocating its resources given the boundaries in which it operates, including the political boundaries.  Some random dude on a message board listening to talk radio may *THINK* he knows better, but he very likely does not.
Isn't it just common sense that your main priority should be finishing projects already underway before starting new ones? That make sense when it comes to anything not just road building. Let's finish the zoo and I-94 and I-39/90 then we can talk about doing something else.


No.  It is not common sense for an agency with as much responsibility as WIDOT to not plan for any projects until all the others are completed.  That's exactly the point I am making.  Your idea is the very opposite of common sense.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: compdude787 on December 22, 2016, 10:43:05 PM

No.  It is not common sense for an agency with as much responsibility as WIDOT to not plan for any projects until all the others are completed.  That's exactly the point I am making.  Your idea is the very opposite of common sense.

You're exactly right. As long as populations increase, there will always be new road improvement projects to be done. It makes sense to start planning new ones as you're working on constructing previously-planned improvements. And plus, you'll keep the construction companies in business when you have a steady stream of projects for them to work on.  :nod:
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: dvferyance on December 23, 2016, 05:56:56 PM

No.  It is not common sense for an agency with as much responsibility as WIDOT to not plan for any projects until all the others are completed.  That's exactly the point I am making.  Your idea is the very opposite of common sense.

You're exactly right. As long as populations increase, there will always be new road improvement projects to be done. It makes sense to start planning new ones as you're working on constructing previously-planned improvements. And plus, you'll keep the construction companies in business when you have a steady stream of projects for them to work on.  :nod:
Yeah that's a good reason we need to spend more money on road projects to keep the construction companies in business. Despite the fact the transportation fund is broke and regardless of whether it's needed or not we need to go out there and start spending even more money we don't have.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: JREwing78 on December 23, 2016, 10:44:59 PM
The money's there. It's just not politically expedient to collect it.

What's ridiculous is that they can't bring themselves to take the short-term political hit to raise the gas tax sufficiently to stay solvent.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: GeekJedi on December 24, 2016, 03:33:14 PM
Yeah that's a good reason we need to spend more money on road projects to keep the construction companies in business.

Way to cherry pick one solitary part of the debate. Again, you're wrong.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on December 27, 2016, 10:42:27 AM
Yeah that's a good reason we need to spend more money on road projects to keep the construction companies in business.

Way to cherry pick one solitary part of the debate. Again, you're wrong.

Fully agreed - I would be supporting projects that I like just as much as I do now if WisDOT could do the work more cheaply 'in house'.  To me, who does the work is immaterial.

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on March 13, 2017, 01:18:15 AM
Husband took me flying today.

I took pictures over Milwaukee, check out the work on the Zoo / Downtown, etc.

https://colinstu.smugmug.com/Flying-03-12-2017
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: dvferyance on March 18, 2017, 06:43:00 PM
Yeah that's a good reason we need to spend more money on road projects to keep the construction companies in business.

Way to cherry pick one solitary part of the debate. Again, you're wrong.
Wrong about what? I was making a point that you don't just do a road project just to give construction contractors a job. You have to have a justification that the project is something that is needed and the money is there to pay for it. I don't see how that is so wrong.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: GeekJedi on March 18, 2017, 08:31:45 PM
Yeah that's a good reason we need to spend more money on road projects to keep the construction companies in business.

Way to cherry pick one solitary part of the debate. Again, you're wrong.
Wrong about what? I was making a point that you don't just do a road project just to give construction contractors a job. You have to have a justification that the project is something that is needed and the money is there to pay for it. I don't see how that is so wrong.

It's not wrong if that was the sole reason, but it wasn't.

He said " It makes sense to start planning new ones as you're working on constructing previously-planned improvements". That was the reason. He added, as an aside, "you'll keep the construction companies in business when you have a steady stream of projects for them to work on."

Your argument is "one project as a time". You picked the one comment that you felt supported your claim and ignored everything else thinking that it proved your point. However, you're wrong in your assertion. The justification he stated was not to keep construction companies employed. The justification is that it makes sense to start planning new projects as you're working on current ones. You read the part you wanted to read and responded to that, but the statements were meant to be taken together.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: compdude787 on March 19, 2017, 01:22:42 AM
The comment I made about keeping construction companies in business was simply an aside, and not really the main reason why DOTs should plan out new construction projects as they are working on current ones.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on April 26, 2017, 10:16:22 PM
http://urbanmilwaukee.com/2017/04/26/can-city-mend-highway-175s-terminus/
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on April 28, 2017, 09:03:39 PM
WisDOT would do well to get behind option 4, the one with more boulevard.  They've caught a lot of flak over their freeway expansions in Milwaukee, so why not throw the city a bone here?  They moved the zoo so they could build this stub freeway.  (Okay not entirely true, they wanted a bigger space and stuff, but c'mon; how many other freeways tore down a zoo to be built?  Washington Park was once the Central Park of Milwaukee and they slapped an empty, six lane freeway on it.) Plus it'll cost less in the long term with one less bridge to maintain.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on April 28, 2017, 09:05:36 PM
Agreed. Option 4 is the way to go.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: FightingIrish on May 03, 2017, 03:30:25 PM
I worry about how option 4 will create more gridlock and traffic problems around the Lloyd St. intersection. The Lloyd St. bridge is at least more pedestrian-friendly, especially with the parks in the area.

I am in favor of shifting the southbound entrance to the Stadium Freeway a block to the east, and filling in the area between that and 47th St. with greenspace/park. I noticed that the old bank and accompanying parking lot have already been taken out.

Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on May 03, 2017, 05:29:27 PM
Whichever option is picked, I wonder whether this project will be built before, during, or after the Interstate 94 (70th St. to 16th St.) project. I would think it would be built in conjunction with the Interstate 94 project, but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on May 03, 2017, 09:48:05 PM
Whichever option is picked, I wonder whether this project will be built before, during, or after the Interstate 94 (70th St. to 16th St.) project. I would think it would be built in conjunction with the Interstate 94 project, but I could be wrong.

Is WisDOT considering downgrading the Stadium Interchange as part of this?

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on May 03, 2017, 10:13:04 PM
It's ultimately an upgrade from what it is now.

Yeah it's won't be directional stack like it is now, there will be some lights on the N-S segment, but otherwise the whole thing is a huge upgrade.

http://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/se/94ew-study/final-eis.pdf
page 157.

http://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/se/94ew-study/preferred-alternative-v4.pdf

Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on May 05, 2017, 04:30:37 PM
Given how short the north and south legs of the existing Stadium Interchange, its obvious why the DOT chose the downgrade option. Will the new ramps need one or two lanes to operate sufficiently?
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on May 07, 2017, 11:05:02 PM
Whichever option is picked, I wonder whether this project will be built before, during, or after the Interstate 94 (70th St. to 16th St.) project. I would think it would be built in conjunction with the Interstate 94 project, but I could be wrong.

It's my understanding this is separate from the delayed I-94 project, so I think that means it could happen before, during or after, depending on funding.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on June 11, 2017, 11:38:42 PM
Drove through the Zoo Interchange project over the weekend and core of the interchange has really taken shape.  Due to slow traffic on the NB->WB ramp I was using, there was ample opportunity to scope it out from the driver's seat.  Lots of decks being poured right now.

The Zoo has gone from unimpressive to massive as one approaches it.  It finally looks the part of Wisconsin's busiest freeway interchange.

I've meant to discuss this before, but I noticed they are replacing the Elm Grove Road overpass on the west end of the project.   All the maps show the project limits to be immediately west of Underwood Parkway, so to see this bridge replaced is curious and also a bit tantalizing.  The prospect of a 4th lane in either direction all the way to Goerkes Corner seems that much closer.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on June 12, 2017, 12:05:53 AM
I asked the Zoo Interchange twitter account about a 4th/aux lane and they confirmed a proposal for one is in the works. It's apparently a matter of approval or not. I haven't discovered any real documents or plans for it though.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on June 13, 2017, 04:19:45 PM
Have any of the 18 ft. shoulders planned for Interstate 94 been constructed yet?
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on June 15, 2017, 10:14:14 AM
Drove through the Zoo Interchange project over the weekend and core of the interchange has really taken shape.  Due to slow traffic on the NB->WB ramp I was using, there was ample opportunity to scope it out from the driver's seat.  Lots of decks being poured right now.

The Zoo has gone from unimpressive to massive as one approaches it.  It finally looks the part of Wisconsin's busiest freeway interchange.

I've meant to discuss this before, but I noticed they are replacing the Elm Grove Road overpass on the west end of the project.   All the maps show the project limits to be immediately west of Underwood Parkway, so to see this bridge replaced is curious and also a bit tantalizing.  The prospect of a 4th lane in either direction all the way to Goerkes Corner seems that much closer.

The MJS reported within the last two years that WisDOT was adding a fourth lane in each direction between the Zoo Project and Moorland Road in conjunction with replacing the overpasses at Elm Grove and Sunny Slope Rds. I'll see if I can find the article and add it here.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: colinstu on June 15, 2017, 11:31:50 AM
Just found this http://archive.brookfieldnow.com/news/construction-planned-for-i-94-brookfield-bridges-b99425558z1-288453171.html
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: dvferyance on June 15, 2017, 06:58:38 PM
Drove through the Zoo Interchange project over the weekend and core of the interchange has really taken shape.  Due to slow traffic on the NB->WB ramp I was using, there was ample opportunity to scope it out from the driver's seat.  Lots of decks being poured right now.

The Zoo has gone from unimpressive to massive as one approaches it.  It finally looks the part of Wisconsin's busiest freeway interchange.

I've meant to discuss this before, but I noticed they are replacing the Elm Grove Road overpass on the west end of the project.   All the maps show the project limits to be immediately west of Underwood Parkway, so to see this bridge replaced is curious and also a bit tantalizing.  The prospect of a 4th lane in either direction all the way to Goerkes Corner seems that much closer.

The MJS reported within the last two years that WisDOT was adding a fourth lane in each direction between the Zoo Project and Moorland Road in conjunction with replacing the overpasses at Elm Grove and Sunny Slope Rds. I'll see if I can find the article and add it here.
I would have liked to see an interchange there but I ma sure there would be way too much local opposition to that.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: GeekJedi on June 15, 2017, 08:15:48 PM
Drove through the Zoo Interchange project over the weekend and core of the interchange has really taken shape.  Due to slow traffic on the NB->WB ramp I was using, there was ample opportunity to scope it out from the driver's seat.  Lots of decks being poured right now.

The Zoo has gone from unimpressive to massive as one approaches it.  It finally looks the part of Wisconsin's busiest freeway interchange.

I've meant to discuss this before, but I noticed they are replacing the Elm Grove Road overpass on the west end of the project.   All the maps show the project limits to be immediately west of Underwood Parkway, so to see this bridge replaced is curious and also a bit tantalizing.  The prospect of a 4th lane in either direction all the way to Goerkes Corner seems that much closer.

The MJS reported within the last two years that WisDOT was adding a fourth lane in each direction between the Zoo Project and Moorland Road in conjunction with replacing the overpasses at Elm Grove and Sunny Slope Rds. I'll see if I can find the article and add it here.
I would have liked to see an interchange there but I ma sure there would be way too much local opposition to that.

Agreed on both counts. An interchange at Sunny Slope would be great. But I'm sure that the NIMBY's would quickly kill it.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 15, 2017, 10:21:24 PM
What I-94 needs is an interchange between Moorland and Bluemound.  At either Calhoun or Brookfield.  Not going to happen though.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Big John on June 15, 2017, 11:00:16 PM
What I-94 needs is an interchange between Moorland and Bluemound.  At either Calhoun or Brookfield.  Not going to happen though.
That was previously proposed then killed by NIMBYs.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: tchafe1978 on June 23, 2017, 10:06:18 PM
I grew up in Brookfield, about a half mile as the crow flies from I-94. A potential interchange at either Brookfield Rd., Calhoun Rd., or a split interchange between the two has been talked about and debated for at least 30 years. If it hasn't happened by now it probably never will. There was too much opposition from residents in the immediate vicinity (my family included) and the DOT wouldn't agree to build an interchange with so much local opposition. It would have basically destroyed two city parks, although the access would have been convenient to our neighborhood and a nearby corporate park. It also probably would have sped up the widening of Calhoun Rd. by about 20 years.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on June 24, 2017, 01:23:49 PM
That's funny. Fierce neighborhood opposition hasn't ever stopped WisDOT from ramming through unpopular expansions in the city. Guess they treat the burbs with kid gloves...
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: FightingIrish on June 25, 2017, 05:02:10 PM
That's funny. Fierce neighborhood opposition hasn't ever stopped WisDOT from ramming through unpopular expansions in the city. Guess they treat the burbs with kid gloves...
You obviously have forgotten about all those unbuilt freeways in the Milwaukee area. Or the compromises like Lake Parkway and Lincoln Memorial Drive.

SM-G900P

Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on June 25, 2017, 05:12:31 PM
That's funny. Fierce neighborhood opposition hasn't ever stopped WisDOT from ramming through unpopular expansions in the city. Guess they treat the burbs with kid gloves...
You obviously have forgotten about all those unbuilt freeways in the Milwaukee area. Or the compromises like Lake Parkway and Lincoln Memorial Drive.

SM-G900P
I haven't obviously forgotten anything. I'm referring to recent history.  But as long as we're talking about historically, how about the way that bronzeville and the walnut street neighborhood were completely removed for the I-43 carriage way? And also consider that the lake freeway and most of the other unbuilt segments were supposed to go through affluent areas... Transportation planners have a long history of giving in to the haves while giving short shrift to the have-nots.


iPhone
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: GeekJedi on June 25, 2017, 09:26:01 PM
That's funny. Fierce neighborhood opposition hasn't ever stopped WisDOT from ramming through unpopular expansions in the city. Guess they treat the burbs with kid gloves...
You obviously have forgotten about all those unbuilt freeways in the Milwaukee area. Or the compromises like Lake Parkway and Lincoln Memorial Drive.

SM-G900P
I haven't obviously forgotten anything. I'm referring to recent history.  But as long as we're talking about historically, how about the way that bronzeville and the walnut street neighborhood were completely removed for the I-43 carriage way? And also consider that the lake freeway and most of the other unbuilt segments were supposed to go through affluent areas... Transportation planners have a long history of giving in to the haves while giving short shrift to the have-nots.


In this case, there'd be no "ramming down anyone's throat". Any interchanges between WI-100 and Moorland Rd. would not have been considered during the initial build (during the time they were "ramming things" through). That area was nothing but farmland until the early-to-mid 80's. It wasn't until the area got built out that rumblings started for something like a Calhoun Rd. exit started. By then the land was much too valuable and the pressure too great for WisDOT to do anything. The only time WisDOT rams anything through is if they have any support from the local municipality. There is a long string of projects all over the state that are scaled back or not done due to opposition.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2017, 09:43:03 PM
That's funny. Fierce neighborhood opposition hasn't ever stopped WisDOT from ramming through unpopular expansions in the city. Guess they treat the burbs with kid gloves...
You obviously have forgotten about all those unbuilt freeways in the Milwaukee area. Or the compromises like Lake Parkway and Lincoln Memorial Drive.

SM-G900P
I haven't obviously forgotten anything. I'm referring to recent history.  But as long as we're talking about historically, how about the way that bronzeville and the walnut street neighborhood were completely removed for the I-43 carriage way? And also consider that the lake freeway and most of the other unbuilt segments were supposed to go through affluent areas... Transportation planners have a long history of giving in to the haves while giving short shrift to the have-nots.


In this case, there'd be no "ramming down anyone's throat". Any interchanges between WI-100 and Moorland Rd. would not have been considered during the initial build (during the time they were "ramming things" through). That area was nothing but farmland until the early-to-mid 80's. It wasn't until the area got built out that rumblings started for something like a Calhoun Rd. exit started. By then the land was much too valuable and the pressure too great for WisDOT to do anything. The only time WisDOT rams anything through is if they have any support from the local municipality. There is a long string of projects all over the state that are scaled back or not done due to opposition.


That area was not "nothing but farmland" in the early to mid 1980s.  Yeah there was a field here and there but that part of Brookfield was building up in 1960s.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: GeekJedi on June 26, 2017, 10:18:27 AM

That area was not "nothing but farmland" in the early to mid 1980s.  Yeah there was a field here and there but that part of Brookfield was building up in 1960s.

You're right. Look at ALL that buildup.   :rolleyes:

https://www.historicaerials.com/location/43.02792958411912/-88.14099311828613/1980/14 (https://www.historicaerials.com/location/43.02792958411912/-88.14099311828613/1980/14)
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 26, 2017, 10:23:48 AM

That area was not "nothing but farmland" in the early to mid 1980s.  Yeah there was a field here and there but that part of Brookfield was building up in 1960s.

You're right. Look at ALL that buildup.   :rolleyes:

https://www.historicaerials.com/location/43.02792958411912/-88.14099311828613/1980/14 (https://www.historicaerials.com/location/43.02792958411912/-88.14099311828613/1980/14)



Yeah.  Doesn't look like "nothing but farmland" to me.

Between the beginning stages of the developments and the parkland it looks like there is no space for an interchange at Calhoun and barely one at Brookfield.  Perhaps one in between.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: GeekJedi on June 26, 2017, 10:40:40 AM

That area was not "nothing but farmland" in the early to mid 1980s.  Yeah there was a field here and there but that part of Brookfield was building up in 1960s.

You're right. Look at ALL that buildup.   :rolleyes:

https://www.historicaerials.com/location/43.02792958411912/-88.14099311828613/1980/14 (https://www.historicaerials.com/location/43.02792958411912/-88.14099311828613/1980/14)



Yeah.  Doesn't look like "nothing but farmland" to me.

Between the beginning stages of the developments and the parkland it looks like there is no space for an interchange at Calhoun and barely one at Brookfield.  Perhaps one in between.

For gosh sakes, there was an ACTUAL farm there! You can parse the language however you want ("beginning stages of the developments" does not equal actual development), but there was plenty of room there. There was a single house at Brookfield Rd., and Ruby Farms along with maybe three houses at Calhoun.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on June 26, 2017, 11:57:35 AM
My sense is that most of what is now the City of Brookfield (originally part of Brookfield Township, incorporated in 1954) was developed during the classic 1950s/1960s era suburban flight.  This was also the time when the I-94 upgrade from the original WI 30 was being planned and built.  The Village of Elm Grove came about at that time (originally part of Brookfield Township, incorporated in 1955), too.

The original 'Brookfield' was the tiny unincorporated 'village' settlement area around where Brookfield Rd crosses the now CP (ex Milwaukee Road) mainline.

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 26, 2017, 12:48:41 PM

That area was not "nothing but farmland" in the early to mid 1980s.  Yeah there was a field here and there but that part of Brookfield was building up in 1960s.

You're right. Look at ALL that buildup.   :rolleyes:

https://www.historicaerials.com/location/43.02792958411912/-88.14099311828613/1980/14 (https://www.historicaerials.com/location/43.02792958411912/-88.14099311828613/1980/14)



Yeah.  Doesn't look like "nothing but farmland" to me.

Between the beginning stages of the developments and the parkland it looks like there is no space for an interchange at Calhoun and barely one at Brookfield.  Perhaps one in between.

For gosh sakes, there was an ACTUAL farm there! You can parse the language however you want ("beginning stages of the developments" does not equal actual development), but there was plenty of room there. There was a single house at Brookfield Rd., and Ruby Farms along with maybe three houses at Calhoun.


I'm not parsing anything.  You said "nothing but farmland."  You made it sound like it was completely rural or something so that adding interchanges back then would have been no problem.  It was part of a suburban incorporated city with plenty of development started.

If you would have said 1960s on your overall point about an interchange at Calhoun, I would have agreed.  But by 1980 it was largely too late anyway from a public pressure point of view.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: GeekJedi on June 26, 2017, 06:06:13 PM
That picture shows that itís pretty rural. For the purposes of this topic, there was no reason at that point, that interchanges couldnít have been done. There was space, and that area hadnít seen much development yet. As for farmland, that entire stretch from Calhoun to Brookfield north of 94 was still farmland at the time. There was a farm or two along Bluemound back then as well.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on June 27, 2017, 12:01:02 AM
That picture shows that it’s pretty rural. For the purposes of this topic, there was no reason at that point, that interchanges couldn’t have been done. There was space, and that area hadn’t seen much development yet. As for farmland, that entire stretch from Calhoun to Brookfield north of 94 was still farmland at the time. There was a farm or two along Bluemound back then as well.

Where is this in relation to the never-built Belt Freeway?  Perhaps close proximity to the planned I-94/Belt interchange is why none was built at Calhoun Rd.

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: tchafe1978 on June 27, 2017, 04:34:52 AM
I believe the Belt Freeway was supposed to land in between Calhoun and Brookfield Rds with a system interchange. It's one of the reasons why that land was some of the last to be developed in the Bluemound Rd. area of Brookfield. The farm field it would have run through was directly behind my parents house where I grew up. I believe subdivisions finally starting going in in the area south if I-94 and north of Davidson Rd. in the mid 1990s.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: dvferyance on June 27, 2017, 02:30:51 PM
That's funny. Fierce neighborhood opposition hasn't ever stopped WisDOT from ramming through unpopular expansions in the city. Guess they treat the burbs with kid gloves...
You obviously have forgotten about all those unbuilt freeways in the Milwaukee area. Or the compromises like Lake Parkway and Lincoln Memorial Drive.

SM-G900P
I haven't obviously forgotten anything. I'm referring to recent history.  But as long as we're talking about historically, how about the way that bronzeville and the walnut street neighborhood were completely removed for the I-43 carriage way? And also consider that the lake freeway and most of the other unbuilt segments were supposed to go through affluent areas... Transportation planners have a long history of giving in to the haves while giving short shrift to the have-nots.


In this case, there'd be no "ramming down anyone's throat". Any interchanges between WI-100 and Moorland Rd. would not have been considered during the initial build (during the time they were "ramming things" through). That area was nothing but farmland until the early-to-mid 80's. It wasn't until the area got built out that rumblings started for something like a Calhoun Rd. exit started. By then the land was much too valuable and the pressure too great for WisDOT to do anything. The only time WisDOT rams anything through is if they have any support from the local municipality. There is a long string of projects all over the state that are scaled back or not done due to opposition.


That area was not "nothing but farmland" in the early to mid 1980s.  Yeah there was a field here and there but that part of Brookfield was building up in 1960s.
You got that right. My sister and brother in law line in a house along Bluemound just east of Moorland that was built in the 50's. That area was building up long before the 80's Now I do vaguely remember some farmland left west of Calhoun that was just starting to be developed around the late 80's. But Brookfield east of Calhoun was still mostly built up even in the 80's.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: tchafe1978 on June 27, 2017, 03:16:15 PM
That's funny. Fierce neighborhood opposition hasn't ever stopped WisDOT from ramming through unpopular expansions in the city. Guess they treat the burbs with kid gloves...
You obviously have forgotten about all those unbuilt freeways in the Milwaukee area. Or the compromises like Lake Parkway and Lincoln Memorial Drive.

SM-G900P
I haven't obviously forgotten anything. I'm referring to recent history.  But as long as we're talking about historically, how about the way that bronzeville and the walnut street neighborhood were completely removed for the I-43 carriage way? And also consider that the lake freeway and most of the other unbuilt segments were supposed to go through affluent areas... Transportation planners have a long history of giving in to the haves while giving short shrift to the have-nots.


In this case, there'd be no "ramming down anyone's throat". Any interchanges between WI-100 and Moorland Rd. would not have been considered during the initial build (during the time they were "ramming things" through). That area was nothing but farmland until the early-to-mid 80's. It wasn't until the area got built out that rumblings started for something like a Calhoun Rd. exit started. By then the land was much too valuable and the pressure too great for WisDOT to do anything. The only time WisDOT rams anything through is if they have any support from the local municipality. There is a long string of projects all over the state that are scaled back or not done due to opposition.


That area was not "nothing but farmland" in the early to mid 1980s.  Yeah there was a field here and there but that part of Brookfield was building up in 1960s.
You got that right. My sister and brother in law line in a house along Bluemound just east of Moorland that was built in the 50's. That area was building up long before the 80's Now I do vaguely remember some farmland left west of Calhoun that was just starting to be developed around the late 80's. But Brookfield east of Calhoun was still mostly built up even in the 80's.

Yup, my parents house and neighborhood was built in the 1960s. The are around them didn't totally fill in until the 1990s. The Corners development that is taking up the remaining land from the Ruby Farms and where the WTMJ radio towers used to be was the largest remaining undeveloped land in Brookfield.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on June 27, 2017, 07:20:54 PM
I don't see Interstate 94 getting any new interchanges between Madison and Milwaukee anytime soon. Although this is well to the west of the Milwaukee area, wasn't there a proposal to eliminate the existing Willow Glen Road interchange (Exit 277)?
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on June 28, 2017, 09:28:35 AM
I don't see Interstate 94 getting any new interchanges between Madison and Milwaukee anytime soon. Although this is well to the west of the Milwaukee area, wasn't there a proposal to eliminate the existing Willow Glen Road interchange (Exit 277)?

It was part of SEWRPC's freeway reconstruction study for the entire region many years ago to eliminate the half interchange at Willow Glen.  No idea if that's still the plan.  That study also recommended turning the half interchange at CTH P into a full access interchange and that came to fruition.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: GeekJedi on June 28, 2017, 11:32:32 AM
I don't see Interstate 94 getting any new interchanges between Madison and Milwaukee anytime soon. Although this is well to the west of the Milwaukee area, wasn't there a proposal to eliminate the existing Willow Glen Road interchange (Exit 277)?

I think the CTH P interchange work was due to the Pabst Farms development. As for Willow Rd., not sure why they'd spend the money to remove an interchange. Of course, I don't have much of an idea on what it costs to maintain.

It was part of SEWRPC's freeway reconstruction study for the entire region many years ago to eliminate the half interchange at Willow Glen.  No idea if that's still the plan.  That study also recommended turning the half interchange at CTH P into a full access interchange and that came to fruition.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on June 28, 2017, 02:44:09 PM
Thanks for the info. Personally, I believe the proposal to eliminate Exit 277 is probably dead.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on June 28, 2017, 04:57:23 PM
As for Willow Rd., not sure why they'd spend the money to remove an interchange. Of course, I don't have much of an idea on what it costs to maintain.

The one rationale I can come up with is if they don't want trucks taking Delafield Rd as a short cut to I-94 to/from the west because of that big Roundy's distribution center and maybe there are locals complaining about the traffic?  There's a sign on I-94 EB that says trucks over 10 tons are not permitted on Delafield Rd, but who knows how enforced that is.
It's pure speculation on my part though.  The SEWRPC study predates the distribution center by several years.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: dvferyance on June 28, 2017, 07:30:56 PM
Thanks for the info. Personally, I believe the proposal to eliminate Exit 277 is probably dead.
Sure we can all agree it's not vitially needed but as long as it's there why get rid of it? What I don't get is why the DOT never posted a warning sign letting drivers know there is no eastbound return ramp at that interchange. They did it for Hwy P during the days that interchange was only partial.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: hobsini2 on June 30, 2017, 02:40:24 PM
Thanks for the info. Personally, I believe the proposal to eliminate Exit 277 is probably dead.
Sure we can all agree it's not vitially needed but as long as it's there why get rid of it? What I don't get is why the DOT never posted a warning sign letting drivers know there is no eastbound return ramp at that interchange. They did it for Hwy P during the days that interchange was only partial.

That is not a typical practice of WisDOT. Even here in Illinois, only the Tollways have signs about interchanges being partial interchanges.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: dvferyance on July 20, 2017, 03:41:24 PM
Thanks for the info. Personally, I believe the proposal to eliminate Exit 277 is probably dead.
Sure we can all agree it's not vitially needed but as long as it's there why get rid of it? What I don't get is why the DOT never posted a warning sign letting drivers know there is no eastbound return ramp at that interchange. They did it for Hwy P during the days that interchange was only partial.

That is not a typical practice of WisDOT. Even here in Illinois, only the Tollways have signs about interchanges being partial interchanges.
I wouldn't say that. The partial Lake Dr interchange in Amhurst on US-10 is marked as such so is the partial interchange on I-39 at County Road D in Marquette County. The difference is Wisconsin has far fewer partial interchanges then Illinois.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on July 24, 2017, 11:17:16 PM
So what's the over/under on the I-94 expansion being sped up if the state lands a Foxconn factory in Mt. Pleasant? Seems like it would move to being a top priority.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SSOWorld on July 25, 2017, 05:29:04 AM
So what's the over/under on the I-94 expansion being sped up if the state lands a Foxconn factory in Mt. Pleasant? Seems like it would move to being a top priority.
Is the Zoo interchange done yet?
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on July 25, 2017, 10:46:52 AM
So what's the over/under on the I-94 expansion being sped up if the state lands a Foxconn factory in Mt. Pleasant? Seems like it would move to being a top priority.
Is the Zoo interchange done yet?

Well, obviously not... ;) But I could see Vos and company pushing for moving forward on Racine and Southern Milwaukee Counties before finishing the North leg of the Zoo project...
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: dvferyance on July 25, 2017, 06:32:40 PM
So what's the over/under on the I-94 expansion being sped up if the state lands a Foxconn factory in Mt. Pleasant? Seems like it would move to being a top priority.
I would think so I thought the plan was finish existing projects first before starting a new ones. But for what ever reason some new projects did start after that.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SSOWorld on July 25, 2017, 09:51:36 PM
So what's the over/under on the I-94 expansion being sped up if the state lands a Foxconn factory in Mt. Pleasant? Seems like it would move to being a top priority.
Is the Zoo interchange done yet?

Well, obviously not... ;) But I could see Vos and company pushing for moving forward on Racine and Southern Milwaukee Counties before finishing the North leg of the Zoo project...
Directive from the top.  Finish the Zoo first.  Nothing more is going to happen on 94 until 2019.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: GeekJedi on July 25, 2017, 10:19:25 PM
So what's the over/under on the I-94 expansion being sped up if the state lands a Foxconn factory in Mt. Pleasant? Seems like it would move to being a top priority.
Is the Zoo interchange done yet?

Well, obviously not... ;) But I could see Vos and company pushing for moving forward on Racine and Southern Milwaukee Counties before finishing the North leg of the Zoo project...
Directive from the top.  Finish the Zoo first.  Nothing more is going to happen on 94 until 2019.

Well, that directive will change if Foxconn asks. Guaranteed.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: GeekJedi on August 02, 2017, 07:31:19 AM
So what's the over/under on the I-94 expansion being sped up if the state lands a Foxconn factory in Mt. Pleasant? Seems like it would move to being a top priority.
Is the Zoo interchange done yet?

Well, obviously not... ;) But I could see Vos and company pushing for moving forward on Racine and Southern Milwaukee Counties before finishing the North leg of the Zoo project...
Directive from the top.  Finish the Zoo first.  Nothing more is going to happen on 94 until 2019.

From today's Journal-Sentinel:

"Wisconsin has already committed to up to $3 billion in state tax incentives that could be paid out in cash to Foxconn if the company comes through in creating up to 13,000 jobs, plus another $252 million for work on the Interstate 94 leg south of Milwaukee that would serve the flat screen display plant."

;-)
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Revive 755 on August 02, 2017, 08:57:50 PM
From today's Journal-Sentinel:

"Wisconsin has already committed to up to $3 billion in state tax incentives that could be paid out in cash to Foxconn if the company comes through in creating up to 13,000 jobs, plus another $252 million for work on the Interstate 94 leg south of Milwaukee that would serve the flat screen display plant."

Finishing the "reconstruction" of the north-south section of I-94 has also been mentioned in the Chicago area newspapers lately, along with possibly using bonds to pay for it.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on August 03, 2017, 10:38:19 AM
From today's Journal-Sentinel:

"Wisconsin has already committed to up to $3 billion in state tax incentives that could be paid out in cash to Foxconn if the company comes through in creating up to 13,000 jobs, plus another $252 million for work on the Interstate 94 leg south of Milwaukee that would serve the flat screen display plant."

Finishing the "reconstruction" of the north-south section of I-94 has also been mentioned in the Chicago area newspapers lately, along with possibly using bonds to pay for it.

Although this is likely wandering into the 'Fantasy Highways' zone, depending on the site(s) chosen for this and any ancillary plants, as well as all of the other development that would reasonably be expected to come along with this (ie, residential, local commercial, etc), what other notable road and highway upgrades might we see coming from this?  Over the past day or so, I did hear some radio news reports out of Milwaukee about landowners being approached about this in the Sturtevant area.

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Joe The Dragon on August 03, 2017, 12:34:04 PM
From today's Journal-Sentinel:

"Wisconsin has already committed to up to $3 billion in state tax incentives that could be paid out in cash to Foxconn if the company comes through in creating up to 13,000 jobs, plus another $252 million for work on the Interstate 94 leg south of Milwaukee that would serve the flat screen display plant."

Finishing the "reconstruction" of the north-south section of I-94 has also been mentioned in the Chicago area newspapers lately, along with possibly using bonds to pay for it.

Although this is likely wandering into the 'Fantasy Highways' zone, depending on the site(s) chosen for this and any ancillary plants, as well as all of the other development that would reasonably be expected to come along with this (ie, residential, local commercial, etc), what other notable road and highway upgrades might we see coming from this?  Over the past day or so, I did hear some radio news reports out of Milwaukee about landowners being approached about this in the Sturtevant area.

Mike

I think all of the ramps / roads with exits are setup to be widened on that part of I-94 I think the new ramps are like 99% done.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SSOWorld on October 31, 2017, 05:30:50 PM
https://projects.511wi.gov/i94northsouth/overview/

The Foxconn deal seems to accelerated the project from a 15-year plan to a 4-year plan

Also this...  http://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/about-wisdot/newsroom/news-rel/103017-infra-grant-.aspx
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: GeekJedi on October 31, 2017, 07:17:31 PM

The Foxconn deal seems to accelerated the project from a 15-year plan to a 4-year plan


I'm stunned, I tell ya. Stunned!! :-D
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Revive 755 on October 31, 2017, 08:43:23 PM
Although this is likely wandering into the 'Fantasy Highways' zone, depending on the site(s) chosen for this and any ancillary plants, as well as all of the other development that would reasonably be expected to come along with this (ie, residential, local commercial, etc), what other notable road and highway upgrades might we see coming from this?  Over the past day or so, I did hear some radio news reports out of Milwaukee about landowners being approached about this in the Sturtevant area.

Mike

I'm wondering if this could lead towards at least studies for extending Lake Parkway down to Racine?  Depending where the plant goes, I could also see a new connector road and interchange being built on I-94.

Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on November 01, 2017, 05:24:27 PM
At the very least, WisDOT may rethink their design for the CTH KR interchange; throw in a loop or something.
I'm bemused by this Foxconn thing; watching all the 'free market' types fall all over themselves to have the government subsidize this one factory; picking winners and losers.  I have to assume they'll be using eminent domain to secure at least some of the land needed and hand it over to this private corporation.  I thought big government was bad?
But it's okay apparently, because there will be like 12,000 jobs...  for robots.

It's great we get to 8-lane I-94 the rest of the way, but it's coming at the expense of, in my opinion, more deserving highway projects around the state and especially in southeast Wisconsin.  An extra lane there is good, but an extra lane on I-43 on the north side of Metro Milwaukee would be much, much better.  Just one example.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: GeekJedi on November 01, 2017, 06:58:05 PM
...but it's coming at the expense of, in my opinion, more deserving highway projects around the state and especially in southeast Wisconsin. 

I don't think this is mutually exclusive to anything else. They're adding funding specifically for this, not taking funding away from anything else.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SSOWorld on November 01, 2017, 10:42:46 PM
...but it's coming at the expense of, in my opinion, more deserving highway projects around the state and especially in southeast Wisconsin. 

I don't think this is mutually exclusive to anything else. They're adding funding specifically for this, not taking funding away from anything else.
Then why are the Zoo freeway approaches being cut from the schedule? Also I-94 Zoo to Stadium?
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: GeekJedi on November 02, 2017, 07:55:31 AM
Then why are the Zoo freeway approaches being cut from the schedule? Also I-94 Zoo to Stadium?

Because the legislature refuses to raise taxes or add money to the transportation budget, so projects like this one that were originally expected to be funded in a timely manner are getting pared back. Those cuts were announced before the Foxconn deal (and the related I-94 expansion). Especially since as they slow down, they get more expensive to build.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: FightingIrish on November 02, 2017, 12:01:39 PM
At the very least, WisDOT may rethink their design for the CTH KR interchange; throw in a loop or something.
I'm bemused by this Foxconn thing; watching all the 'free market' types fall all over themselves to have the government subsidize this one factory; picking winners and losers.  I have to assume they'll be using eminent domain to secure at least some of the land needed and hand it over to this private corporation.  I thought big government was bad?
But it's okay apparently, because there will be like 12,000 jobs...  for robots.

It's great we get to 8-lane I-94 the rest of the way, but it's coming at the expense of, in my opinion, more deserving highway projects around the state and especially in southeast Wisconsin.  An extra lane there is good, but an extra lane on I-43 on the north side of Metro Milwaukee would be much, much better.  Just one example.
The whole FoxConn deal is a con job. Essentially, politicians moving heaven and earth to accommodate one company, so they can brag about"creating jobs."

At least Wisconsin has no chance of getting Amazon. That's going to be an even more ridiculous deal.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: dvferyance on November 02, 2017, 07:01:59 PM
At the very least, WisDOT may rethink their design for the CTH KR interchange; throw in a loop or something.
I'm bemused by this Foxconn thing; watching all the 'free market' types fall all over themselves to have the government subsidize this one factory; picking winners and losers.  I have to assume they'll be using eminent domain to secure at least some of the land needed and hand it over to this private corporation.  I thought big government was bad?
But it's okay apparently, because there will be like 12,000 jobs...  for robots.

It's great we get to 8-lane I-94 the rest of the way, but it's coming at the expense of, in my opinion, more deserving highway projects around the state and especially in southeast Wisconsin.  An extra lane there is good, but an extra lane on I-43 on the north side of Metro Milwaukee would be much, much better.  Just one example.
The whole FoxConn deal is a con job. Essentially, politicians moving heaven and earth to accommodate one company, so they can brag about"creating jobs."

At least Wisconsin has no chance of getting Amazon. That's going to be an even more ridiculous deal.
Let's just get back to talking about roads. Politics belong on a different forum.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on November 03, 2017, 01:01:48 PM
At the very least, WisDOT may rethink their design for the CTH KR interchange; throw in a loop or something.
I'm bemused by this Foxconn thing; watching all the 'free market' types fall all over themselves to have the government subsidize this one factory; picking winners and losers.  I have to assume they'll be using eminent domain to secure at least some of the land needed and hand it over to this private corporation.  I thought big government was bad?
But it's okay apparently, because there will be like 12,000 jobs...  for robots.

It's great we get to 8-lane I-94 the rest of the way, but it's coming at the expense of, in my opinion, more deserving highway projects around the state and especially in southeast Wisconsin.  An extra lane there is good, but an extra lane on I-43 on the north side of Metro Milwaukee would be much, much better.  Just one example.
The whole FoxConn deal is a con job. Essentially, politicians moving heaven and earth to accommodate one company, so they can brag about"creating jobs."

At least Wisconsin has no chance of getting Amazon. That's going to be an even more ridiculous deal.
Let's just get back to talking about roads. Politics belong on a different forum.

Roads are one of the most politically charged topics there is. Itís hard to discuss roads without wading into politics at least sometimes. I would concede your point that the Foxconn stuff is off-topic, but Iíll throw in my 2 cents anyway. I remain skeptical about the deal, but will wait and see how it goes. If it gets the I-94 project done sometime in the next decade, then all the better.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: tchafe1978 on November 03, 2017, 05:30:23 PM
<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fwizoointerchange%2Fposts%2F1474458906001969&width=500" width="500" height="651" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true"></iframe>

From the Zoo Interchange project Facebook page, in 2018 they plan on resurfacing and restriping stretches of I-41 and I-894 for 8 lanes and building auxiliary lanes from Moorland Rd. to Hwy 100 on I-94. The resurfacing and restriping are interim solutions until funding can be found to properly reconstruct those stretches, according to comments from the Zoo Interchange page.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SSOWorld on November 04, 2017, 07:56:05 AM
They had the funds, then they squandered them in a political battle by delaying the projects.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: GeekJedi on November 04, 2017, 11:22:56 AM
They had the funds, then they squandered them in a political battle by delaying the projects.

Yep. And for some reason they all think that kicking the can down the road is a reasonable solution.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on November 04, 2017, 05:02:46 PM
They had the funds, then they squandered them in a political battle by delaying the projects.

Yep. And for some reason they all think that kicking the can down the road is a reasonable solution.

A political reason.  Walker won't raise gas taxes to protect his future Presidential run. 
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: MantyMadTown on March 28, 2018, 09:31:30 PM
They had the funds, then they squandered them in a political battle by delaying the projects.

Yep. And for some reason they all think that kicking the can down the road is a reasonable solution.

A political reason.  Walker won't raise gas taxes to protect his future Presidential run.

He already ran for president in 2016. We all know how that went. Unless you mean 2020? Anyway he's running for governor again. He cares more about winning elections than actually helping the people of Wisconsin. It sucks that he doesn't care about doing anything for us.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SSOWorld on March 28, 2018, 09:52:11 PM
Any politician is in it for none other than running for re-election.

Back to the topic...
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: MantyMadTown on March 29, 2018, 03:53:04 PM
I think the topic was how to get back the funds to work on the Zoo Interchange, is that correct?
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: dvferyance on March 29, 2018, 05:55:57 PM
They had the funds, then they squandered them in a political battle by delaying the projects.

Yep. And for some reason they all think that kicking the can down the road is a reasonable solution.

A political reason.  Walker won't raise gas taxes to protect his future Presidential run.

He already ran for president in 2016. We all know how that went. Unless you mean 2020? Anyway he's running for governor again. He cares more about winning elections than actually helping the people of Wisconsin. It sucks that he doesn't care about doing anything for us.
I don't see how raising taxes is helping the people but regardless I wish this forum would not get to political.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on March 29, 2018, 08:09:59 PM
They had the funds, then they squandered them in a political battle by delaying the projects.

Yep. And for some reason they all think that kicking the can down the road is a reasonable solution.

A political reason.  Walker won't raise gas taxes to protect his future Presidential run.

He already ran for president in 2016. We all know how that went. Unless you mean 2020? Anyway he's running for governor again. He cares more about winning elections than actually helping the people of Wisconsin. It sucks that he doesn't care about doing anything for us.
I don't see how raising taxes is helping the people but regardless I wish this forum would not get to political.


And that sentence is very indicative of the problem.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: midwesternroadguy on June 07, 2018, 12:20:41 AM
At the very least, WisDOT may rethink their design for the CTH KR interchange; throw in a loop or something.
I'm bemused by this Foxconn thing; watching all the 'free market' types fall all over themselves to have the government subsidize this one factory; picking winners and losers.  I have to assume they'll be using eminent domain to secure at least some of the land needed and hand it over to this private corporation.  I thought big government was bad?
But it's okay apparently, because there will be like 12,000 jobs...  for robots.

It's great we get to 8-lane I-94 the rest of the way, but it's coming at the expense of, in my opinion, more deserving highway projects around the state and especially in southeast Wisconsin.  An extra lane there is good, but an extra lane on I-43 on the north side of Metro Milwaukee would be much, much better.  Just one example.
The whole FoxConn deal is a con job. Essentially, politicians moving heaven and earth to accommodate one company, so they can brag about"creating jobs."

At least Wisconsin has no chance of getting Amazon. That's going to be an even more ridiculous deal.
Let's just get back to talking about roads. Politics belong on a different forum.

Avoid politics so we canít talk about whatís really happening in this state?   Maybe people wonít be led down the garden path anymoreóas that wonít be full of ďScottholesĒ. 
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: dvferyance on June 08, 2018, 04:50:07 PM
At the very least, WisDOT may rethink their design for the CTH KR interchange; throw in a loop or something.
I'm bemused by this Foxconn thing; watching all the 'free market' types fall all over themselves to have the government subsidize this one factory; picking winners and losers.  I have to assume they'll be using eminent domain to secure at least some of the land needed and hand it over to this private corporation.  I thought big government was bad?
But it's okay apparently, because there will be like 12,000 jobs...  for robots.

It's great we get to 8-lane I-94 the rest of the way, but it's coming at the expense of, in my opinion, more deserving highway projects around the state and especially in southeast Wisconsin.  An extra lane there is good, but an extra lane on I-43 on the north side of Metro Milwaukee would be much, much better.  Just one example.
The whole FoxConn deal is a con job. Essentially, politicians moving heaven and earth to accommodate one company, so they can brag about"creating jobs."

At least Wisconsin has no chance of getting Amazon. That's going to be an even more ridiculous deal.
Let's just get back to talking about roads. Politics belong on a different forum.

Avoid politics so we canít talk about whatís really happening in this state?   Maybe people wonít be led down the garden path anymoreóas that wonít be full of ďScottholesĒ.
Ok if you want to discuss politics I will say this I remember when fmr Gov Doyle raided the transportation funds to balance his budget.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: hobsini2 on June 08, 2018, 07:44:31 PM
At the very least, WisDOT may rethink their design for the CTH KR interchange; throw in a loop or something.
I'm bemused by this Foxconn thing; watching all the 'free market' types fall all over themselves to have the government subsidize this one factory; picking winners and losers.  I have to assume they'll be using eminent domain to secure at least some of the land needed and hand it over to this private corporation.  I thought big government was bad?
But it's okay apparently, because there will be like 12,000 jobs...  for robots.

It's great we get to 8-lane I-94 the rest of the way, but it's coming at the expense of, in my opinion, more deserving highway projects around the state and especially in southeast Wisconsin.  An extra lane there is good, but an extra lane on I-43 on the north side of Metro Milwaukee would be much, much better.  Just one example.
The whole FoxConn deal is a con job. Essentially, politicians moving heaven and earth to accommodate one company, so they can brag about"creating jobs."

At least Wisconsin has no chance of getting Amazon. That's going to be an even more ridiculous deal.
Let's just get back to talking about roads. Politics belong on a different forum.

Avoid politics so we canít talk about whatís really happening in this state?   Maybe people wonít be led down the garden path anymoreóas that wonít be full of ďScottholesĒ.
Ok if you want to discuss politics I will say this I remember when fmr Gov Doyle raided the transportation funds to balance his budget.

Big difference between balancing the budget and subsidizing a company, not that it makes it any better though.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: MantyMadTown on November 18, 2018, 10:37:29 PM
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2018/08/28/scott-walker-declares-zoo-interchange-done-even-work-remains/1121749002/

I know this is old, but when's the rest of the Zoo Interchange project going to be done? I'm hoping that there will be more money in the budget for it next year.

I'm also wondering if we'll see the Stadium Interchange get reconstructed soon.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: DaBigE on November 19, 2018, 01:07:51 AM
I'm also wondering if we'll see the Stadium Interchange get reconstructed soon.

Since many of the recent political races seemed to highlight a need to "share the construction wealth" with other parts of the state, I doubt we'll get more than spot repairs/pavement rehab in the next 5-10 years. The project website (https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/se/94stadiumint/default.aspx) paints a bleaker picture, with a notice that the project is on hold "until further notice". I highly doubt they'd spend money to upgrade the Stadium Interchange without being able to improve the system approaches.

This is where the planning process left off, as far as I can find: Preferred Alternative (https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/se/94ew-study/preferred-alternative-v4.pdf), Other Considered Options (https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/se/94ew-study/stadium-interchange-six-options.pdf)
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on November 19, 2018, 04:52:26 PM
I wonder if city leaders lobbied to have this segment's proposed reconstruction postponed because it would widen Interstate 94 to eight lanes, which the city does not want to happpen.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on November 19, 2018, 05:25:55 PM
WIDOT pulled it because it was going to cost $1B and the state doesn't have the money.  And yes the City has been lukewarm on the project, wanting reconstruction without widening. 
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: dvferyance on November 26, 2018, 06:24:56 PM
Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: GeekJedi on November 26, 2018, 07:19:26 PM
Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.

Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on November 27, 2018, 11:37:49 PM
Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.

Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.

Important to note those are two separate Norquist ideas there.
The one idea to reroute 94 over 894 was a brainstorm about trying to reduce traffic on the East-West Freeway west of the Zoo Interchange.  It was poorly thought out since thru traffic already uses 894 exclusively.  But it should not be mistaken as a serious proposal that a government entity spent time and money investigating. 

Tearing down 794 between the Marquette and Lake Interchanges was slightly more serious (though not really at WisDOT).  That at least had some merit.  Most traffic is going to-from downtown and not through it so it would not have been the end of the world for the freeway to end west of the Milwaukee River and have the Hoan dump out directly onto Lincoln Memorial Drive.  The time savings versus the real estate consumed by I-794 made it viable in my opinion.  Norquist was riding high off of the successful teardown of the Park East stub, but there wasn't the momentum to repeat the endeavor at 794.

I remember this debate going on back in the early 00's because it would affect how WisDOT would rebuild the Marquette and how much that rebuild would cost.  I sometimes wonder how much further west and south from the core they could've rebuilt for the same price ($810 million) if they had decided to axe the E-W portion of 794.  I suspect one could've had a modern 8-lane I-94 out to the Stadium Interchange for the same budget with four fewer high-speed ramps to build (really, its 5 because of the Plankinton Ave connection from the south)

As I've stated before, the Park East teardown was ultimately successful, it just took longer than everyone wanted to get the infill.  The bureaucracy of city and county government got in its own way for a time.  I think the teardown was key in the eventual building boom/gentrification surge northwest of the downtown core.  From personal experience, I used McKinley Ave for several years on the reg and the surface street was perfectly fine to get me where I was going.  Not to mention how much money Wisconsin saved not having to rebuild a second system interchange as part of the Marquette project.

The highway side won all the battles about I-794.  It's all been refurbished and redecked recently so that is what Milwaukee is going to have for another 30-40 years.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on November 28, 2018, 09:12:50 AM
And having a "boulevard" in place of I-794 would have created a more seamless flow between downtown and the 3rd Ward.  Right now that highway serves as a barrier.  The traffic would not have been terrible as triple mentions, and I'm sure it could have been made "pedestrian friendly" using modern design. 
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on November 28, 2018, 09:50:33 AM
And having a "boulevard" in place of I-794 would have created a more seamless flow between downtown and the 3rd Ward.  Right now that highway serves as a barrier.  The traffic would not have been terrible as triple mentions, and I'm sure it could have been made "pedestrian friendly" using modern design.

I was walking around in that part of downtown Milwaukee a couple of weeks ago, mainly to check out the new tram line, but also just to check the area out.  I did notice that a significant amount of Millennial gentrification has been taking place in the area around St Paul Ave by the river and that the area does appear to be doing a pretty decent job of integrating the freeway structure into that whole scene.

I also note that I can very well sense that the area along St Paul Ave from the Intermodal Station (Amtrak 'MKE') westward towards I-94/27th St and the Canal St area from there towards Miller Park is perfectly poised to be the next 'frontier' for serious Millennial attention.

(BTW, right now I'd give the city's nascent tram system (called 'The Hop') a grade of 'C'.  I thought that the vehicles were stiff and harsh riding and a bit noisy on the inside.  We'll see more on how things go with it once potential system extensions are developed.)

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on November 28, 2018, 12:09:13 PM
My guess is the next round of gentrification will happen more around the area of the new arena - Fiserv Forum.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: dvferyance on November 29, 2018, 07:35:46 PM
Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.

Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.
Right which would have been a horrible idea. My point is however because Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway leadership is why expansion has taken place farther out of the city but not in the city itself.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on November 29, 2018, 08:47:17 PM
Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.

Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.
Right which would have been a horrible idea. My point is however because Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway leadership is why expansion has taken place farther out of the city but not in the city itself.

A tangent, but this is yet another reason why, IMHO, one of the best things that could possibly happen to the Milwaukee metro area would be for a way to be found to allow the suburbanites to vote in elections for mayor and city council.

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: GeekJedi on November 29, 2018, 09:02:18 PM
Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.

Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.
Right which would have been a horrible idea. My point is however because Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway leadership is why expansion has taken place farther out of the city but not in the city itself.

A tangent, but this is yet another reason why, IMHO, one of the best things that could possibly happen to the Milwaukee metro area would be for a way to be found to allow the suburbanites to vote in elections for mayor and city council.

Mike

Sure. Just as long as Milwaukeeans can vote for Suburban mayors and council members. ;-)
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on November 29, 2018, 09:26:21 PM
Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.

Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.
Right which would have been a horrible idea. My point is however because Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway leadership is why expansion has taken place farther out of the city but not in the city itself.

A tangent, but this is yet another reason why, IMHO, one of the best things that could possibly happen to the Milwaukee metro area would be for a way to be found to allow the suburbanites to vote in elections for mayor and city council.

Mike

Sure. Just as long as Milwaukeeans can vote for Suburban mayors and council members. ;-)

An amalgamated city of about 1.3 million population?  (Note, the current suburbanites would then control such a city council and mayor's office.)

 :hmmm:

 :nod:

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on November 29, 2018, 10:01:38 PM
Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.

Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.
Right which would have been a horrible idea. My point is however because Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway leadership is why expansion has taken place farther out of the city but not in the city itself.

A tangent, but this is yet another reason why, IMHO, one of the best things that could possibly happen to the Milwaukee metro area would be for a way to be found to allow the suburbanites to vote in elections for mayor and city council.

Mike


So you either believe that Milwaukeans are too dumb to vote for the people who best represents their interests, or that Milwaukee exists for the benefit of the people who don't live in the city.  Yeah I am being hyperbolic but it's not really all that difficult to see why they take the stances they do.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on November 30, 2018, 04:05:56 AM
Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.

Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.
Right which would have been a horrible idea. My point is however because Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway leadership is why expansion has taken place farther out of the city but not in the city itself.

A tangent, but this is yet another reason why, IMHO, one of the best things that could possibly happen to the Milwaukee metro area would be for a way to be found to allow the suburbanites to vote in elections for mayor and city council.

Mike


So you either believe that Milwaukeans are too dumb to vote for the people who best represents their interests, or that Milwaukee exists for the benefit of the people who don't live in the city.  Yeah I am being hyperbolic but it's not really all that difficult to see why they take the stances they do.

To me, the observations from the 'outside' tell me that the vast majority of those who actually give a rip about what goes on in the city are unable to do anything about it because they are ineligible to vote in elections for mayor and city council due to their not living in the city.

That then begs the question of 'How different would the city be today if all of the residents of the metro area COULD vote in those elections, had the entire metro area been defined as being IN the city?'.

:hmmm:

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on November 30, 2018, 08:22:08 AM
Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.

Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.
Right which would have been a horrible idea. My point is however because Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway leadership is why expansion has taken place farther out of the city but not in the city itself.

A tangent, but this is yet another reason why, IMHO, one of the best things that could possibly happen to the Milwaukee metro area would be for a way to be found to allow the suburbanites to vote in elections for mayor and city council.

Mike


So you either believe that Milwaukeans are too dumb to vote for the people who best represents their interests, or that Milwaukee exists for the benefit of the people who don't live in the city.  Yeah I am being hyperbolic but it's not really all that difficult to see why they take the stances they do.

To me, the observations from the 'outside' tell me that the vast majority of those who actually give a rip about what goes on in the city are unable to do anything about it because they are ineligible to vote in elections for mayor and city council due to their not living in the city.


I used to live in Milwaukee and have many friends and family that still do.  That observation is ridiculous.  What I can say is that those who live in the city oftentimes differ with those in the suburbs about HOW to best improve the city.  The I-94 expansion is a great example of that. 

People love to rip on the mayor, but Milwaukee is a much better place than when he took over.  Many parts of the city now are attracting people back from the suburbs.  The city is actually gaining in population again.  It's actually doing a lot of great things.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on November 30, 2018, 09:00:33 AM
I'm not sure a bigger (geographically) Milwaukee would improve anything.  I look at similar sized cites (or metros, I should say) that don't have nearly as many suburbs; particularly ones where the city and county governments merged a long time ago; and they seem to have all the same issues and inequalities as the cities ringed by oodles of little suburbs.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: GeekJedi on November 30, 2018, 10:03:21 AM

To me, the observations from the 'outside' tell me that the vast majority of those who actually give a rip about what goes on in the city are unable to do anything about it because they are ineligible to vote in elections for mayor and city council due to their not living in the city.


:hmmm:

Mike

Actually, you mean to say "those who actually don't like what the Democrats are doing in the city..."

I live in one of the deep-red "WOW" counties. The people in those counties don't actually give a rip about what happens in Milwaukee, they just hate to see things like the streetcar happen. Which, honestly, is none of their business. That's like saying that what happens in Appleton affects the rest of the state, so we all should have a say in their government as well.

Nah, that "have a say in Milwaukee" thing is entirely political, and it's even more prevalent now that Dane and Milwaukee Counties helped elect Evers.

The whole reason SEWRPC exists is to coordinate infrastructure through the region. No need to modify Milwaukee politics.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on November 30, 2018, 10:45:48 AM

To me, the observations from the 'outside' tell me that the vast majority of those who actually give a rip about what goes on in the city are unable to do anything about it because they are ineligible to vote in elections for mayor and city council due to their not living in the city.


:hmmm:

Mike

Actually, you mean to say "those who actually don't like what the Democrats are doing in the city..."

I live in one of the deep-red "WOW" counties. The people in those counties don't actually give a rip about what happens in Milwaukee, they just hate to see things like the streetcar happen. Which, honestly, is none of their business. That's like saying that what happens in Appleton affects the rest of the state, so we all should have a say in their government as well.

Nah, that "have a say in Milwaukee" thing is entirely political, and it's even more prevalent now that Dane and Milwaukee Counties helped elect Evers.

The whole reason SEWRPC exists is to coordinate infrastructure through the region. No need to modify Milwaukee politics.



Yeah that too.  I hear this stuff all the time and I don't think people realize how condescending it is.  "Don't people from Milwaukee know what's good for them?"
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: FightingIrish on March 02, 2019, 07:37:41 PM
Was poking around on a few map apps (Google, Apple and OSM). And, for whatever reason, I was wondering how WIS 241 was currently being signed, seeing as the I-41/94 ramps to 27th Street are no more (the future Elm Road interchange that will be eventually be constructed - along with Elm Road itself - will eventually take its place).

Previously, it was presumed that the southern terminus of WIS 241 was at the 41/94 interchange. But, looking at Google Maps, I noticed that WIS 241 is signed down the frontage road to the Seven Mile Road. Granted, it's Google Maps, and iOS maps shows the current terminus at WIS 100 (Ryan Rd). OSM shows it just ending at the old interchange. However, Google Street View (the pics of which I know are  a few years old) does seem to have a different sort of photographic evidence. WIS 241 is indeed signed down to Seven Mile.

WI-241
https://goo.gl/maps/QX8BtjKtCUs

I haven't been around the area lately, but anyone else in that area more up to date on this? Apparently, the frontage road connection with South 27th has been smoothed out, so there is some sort of credibility there. Long story short - where does 241 end nowadays?

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190303/5e2b99f00a0d020c782602de5f517745.jpg)
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: MantyMadTown on March 03, 2019, 01:36:12 AM
Was poking around on a few map apps (Google, Apple and OSM). And, for whatever reason, I was wondering how WIS 241 was currently being signed, seeing as the I-41/94 ramps to 27th Street are no more (the future Elm Road interchange that will be eventually be constructed - along with Elm Road itself - will eventually take its place).

Previously, it was presumed that the southern terminus of WIS 241 was at the 41/94 interchange. But, looking at Google Maps, I noticed that WIS 241 is signed down the frontage road to the Seven Mile Road. Granted, it's Google Maps, and iOS maps shows the current terminus at WIS 100 (Ryan Rd). OSM shows it just ending at the old interchange. However, Google Street View (the pics of which I know are  a few years old) does seem to have a different sort of photographic evidence. WIS 241 is indeed signed down to Seven Mile.

WI-241
https://goo.gl/maps/QX8BtjKtCUs

I haven't been around the area lately, but anyone else in that area more up to date on this? Apparently, the frontage road connection with South 27th has been smoothed out, so there is some sort of credibility there. Long story short - where does 241 end nowadays?

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190303/5e2b99f00a0d020c782602de5f517745.jpg)

I think ever since WISDOT closed the 27th St interchange 241 has ended at Seven Mile. Once they build the Elm Dr interchange it'll either move there or stay at Seven Mile. But my guess is that it'll move to the new interchange, as you said it will take the 27th St interchange's place.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on March 03, 2019, 08:24:45 AM
Or maybe they'll decommission it since it's pretty useless.  (I know that won't happen though.)
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: GeekJedi on March 04, 2019, 12:17:18 PM
Was poking around on a few map apps (Google, Apple and OSM). And, for whatever reason, I was wondering how WIS 241 was currently being signed, seeing as the I-41/94 ramps to 27th Street are no more (the future Elm Road interchange that will be eventually be constructed - along with Elm Road itself - will eventually take its place).

Previously, it was presumed that the southern terminus of WIS 241 was at the 41/94 interchange. But, looking at Google Maps, I noticed that WIS 241 is signed down the frontage road to the Seven Mile Road. Granted, it's Google Maps, and iOS maps shows the current terminus at WIS 100 (Ryan Rd). OSM shows it just ending at the old interchange. However, Google Street View (the pics of which I know are  a few years old) does seem to have a different sort of photographic evidence. WIS 241 is indeed signed down to Seven Mile.

WI-241
https://goo.gl/maps/QX8BtjKtCUs

I haven't been around the area lately, but anyone else in that area more up to date on this? Apparently, the frontage road connection with South 27th has been smoothed out, so there is some sort of credibility there. Long story short - where does 241 end nowadays?

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190303/5e2b99f00a0d020c782602de5f517745.jpg)

As far as I know, that's been the terminus for a while now. I go by there quite often - I believe that was moved when the construction started on 94/41 in preparation of removing the interchange with 27th St.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: dvferyance on March 05, 2019, 01:23:29 PM
The I-94 frontage roads are already maintained by wisdot anyways. So I think it's good bet the end of WI-241 at Seven Mile Rd is permanent.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on March 05, 2019, 03:22:33 PM
I emailed WIDOT, and was told they have not made a decision on what to do with the routing of WI-241 yet. 
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on March 05, 2019, 04:23:30 PM
They'll probably reroute STH-241 onto Elm Road, so the highway terminates at Interstate 41/94. It seems like the most logical thing to do to me.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SSOWorld on March 05, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: dvferyance on March 06, 2019, 02:58:37 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.
It doesn't even go east to 13th street. It really makes this interchange so useless. Even by getting rid of the 27th street exit just using Seven Mile Road would have worked just fine.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on March 06, 2019, 03:03:43 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.


There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide.  And that area has been growing more and more.  Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Stephane Dumas on March 06, 2019, 04:03:26 PM

There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide.  And that area has been growing more and more.  Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.

I wonder if WIDOT had removed that exit a bit too fast? Did they studied others alternatives like an upgrade of that former exit?
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on March 06, 2019, 05:04:22 PM

There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide.  And that area has been growing more and more.  Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.

I wonder if WIDOT had removed that exit a bit too fast? Did they studied others alternatives like an upgrade of that former exit?


I'm sure they did.  This is all part of the I-94 corridor upgrade.  The problem is that the Root River runs real close to that interchange so an upgrade would not have been easy.   Honestly I don't understand the criticism. 
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: FightingIrish on March 07, 2019, 08:42:35 AM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.


There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide.  And that area has been growing more and more.  Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
I think WISDOT wanted to relocate the 27th St exit, as the current configuration was a bit too close to Seven Mile. Oakwood wasn't very feasible, but, with the realignment of the NB lanes of 41/94, and the big chunk of land available to route Elm Rd., This does seem to make some sense in regard to what WISDOT wants to do. Aside from all that, I highly doubt Elm Rd. will be extended anywhere. It's a connection between the freeway and S. 27th St., that's all.

And I'm guessing WIS 241 will terminate at the new exit when all is said and done.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: FightingIrish on March 07, 2019, 08:54:57 AM
The I-94 frontage roads are already maintained by wisdot anyways. So I think it's good bet the end of WI-241 at Seven Mile Rd is permanent.
Good point. I don't think Seven Mile will be the permanent terminus, but since the state already maintains the frontage road, the temporary extension does make sense. The issue is, counties and local jurisdictions typically do not want to get rid of state routes unless WISDOT offers to swap equivalent mileage on another route. This is what happened in Waukesha County a couple years ago, when the future Waukesha bypass was designated, and WIS 74 was decommissioned, at the request of Menomonee Falls, who wanted to keep the heavy traffic and trucks off Main St. by making it a local street.

Same thing happened in the late 90s in Milwaukee County. The WIS 794 parkway was completed, and in return, WIS 62 was decommissioned and WIS 32 altered a bit.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on August 17, 2021, 03:50:02 PM
Construction is starting on the I-43 expansion on the north side of Milwaukee, so this thread is getting bumped.
https://projects.511wi.gov/43north-south/full-project-overview/ (https://projects.511wi.gov/43north-south/full-project-overview/)

First step is to prep the shoulders on the NB carriageway to handle all four lanes when they tear up the SB lanes come spring.  Same construction methodology we've observed for many years on 39/90.

Really excited about this project because it will finally overhaul the most outdated freeway in the entire Milwaukee area. I-43 in northern Milwaukee County is bad in just about every way; the interchanges suck, the sightlines are crap at Good Hope Rd, it has inadequate shoulders, and it needs another lane in each direction.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 17, 2021, 04:28:54 PM
Construction is starting on the I-43 expansion on the north side of Milwaukee, so this thread is getting bumped.
https://projects.511wi.gov/43north-south/full-project-overview/ (https://projects.511wi.gov/43north-south/full-project-overview/)

First step is to prep the shoulders on the NB carriageway to handle all four lanes when they tear up the SB lanes come spring.  Same construction methodology we've observed for many years on 39/90.

Really excited about this project because it will finally overhaul the most outdated freeway in the entire Milwaukee area. I-43 in northern Milwaukee County is bad in just about every way; the interchanges suck, the sightlines are crap at Good Hope Rd, it has inadequate shoulders, and it needs another lane in each direction.


A lot of good in this project.  Not only the expansion to six lanes, which is REALLY needed, but the addition of an exit between Mequon Road and County C makes a ton of sense.

The only bad that I see, is that this expansion should have gone all the way to the WI-57 / I-43 split and not end at WI-60.  That's only an extra five miles, but my guess is that they would want to redo the interchange with WI-57 and that would add some cost.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on August 17, 2021, 04:41:52 PM
I suspect there is a drop off in traffic past Grafton.  I've certainly observed as much anecdotally when I drove that stretch semi-regularly a few years back.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 17, 2021, 05:44:30 PM
Undoubtedly the traffic drops off the further north you go.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: skluth on August 17, 2021, 06:37:24 PM
It's been a few years since I traveled this highway, but I drove it regularly in the past. This expansion is long overdue. I thought they'd upgrade this as soon as WisDOT finished expanding the Silver Spring bend but that's been finished for a while now. Probably don't need to expand further north for now. I never noticed much traffic until I got past Saukville but traffic picked up quickly the further south I went.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on August 17, 2021, 10:18:28 PM
I'm glad this project is underway. Hopefully the Interstate 94 reconstruction project between 70th St. and 16th St. will soon follow (it was enumerated in 2020).
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: jhuntin1 on August 18, 2021, 03:51:58 PM
The Highland Road interchange has been talked about for 30 years, so I'm glad that they're finally getting around to it.

Is there any information on how much money WisDOT has allocated for this project? I have to imagine that there's going to be some pretty pricey right-of-way that will need to be purchased to make this work in addition to the actual construction costs.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on August 19, 2021, 11:25:50 AM
The new Highland Rd interchange won't need much r/w due to its tight-diamond design:
(https://projects.511wi.gov/43north-south/wp-content/uploads/sites/705/Highland_Interchange.jpg)
No existing structures are affected.

The rest of the project is pretty much within the existing r/w.  Only along the east side of Port Washington Road just north of the railroad overpass are there a cluster of properties acquired.
https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/se/43n-s-corridor/2020materials/maps/port-washington3.pdf (https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/se/43n-s-corridor/2020materials/maps/port-washington3.pdf)

They even managed to squeeze in the new ramps at County Line Rd/Port Washington Rd within the existing right of way.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: dvferyance on August 19, 2021, 04:18:50 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.


There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide.  And that area has been growing more and more.  Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Using Seven Mile Road interchange would have worked just fine.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 19, 2021, 04:26:16 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.


There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide.  And that area has been growing more and more.  Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Using Seven Mile Road interchange would have worked just fine.

Not really.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: jhuntin1 on August 19, 2021, 04:31:16 PM
Thanks for posting that, 3MX. I was thinking more of the area between Silver Spring and Good Hope Road. With Nicolet High School on the west and Port Washington Road running closely alongside on the east, it looks like it will be tough to squeeze in a third lane in each direction within the existing ROW.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: thspfc on August 19, 2021, 08:16:19 PM
I've always thought that there should be a half interchange (SB I-43 exit and NB I-43 entrance) at Bender Road to take some of the load off the Silver Spring interchange. Not going to happen though.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on August 20, 2021, 08:13:27 PM
I'm not sure there is enough space at Bender Rd. to put an interchange there, given N. Port Washington Rd. and N. Jean Nicolet Rd. flank the freeway on both sides. Moving those roads further away from Interstate 43 to build an interchange would require significant condemning of property, and likely loud protests of opposition. So putting an interchange at Bender is a dream deferred.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: peterj920 on August 26, 2021, 09:33:09 PM
I'm glad this project is underway. Hopefully the Interstate 94 reconstruction project between 70th St. and 16th St. will soon follow (it was enumerated in 2020).

The I-94 project was not enumerated. Itís being studied as a potential major project. The two projects that were are the I-39/I-90/I-94 Wisconsin River Bridge and a US 51 rebuild between I-39/I-90 and The Madison Beltline. The rebuild is 2 lanes with intersection improvements and is probably the least exciting majors project that WISDOT has enumerated.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on August 28, 2021, 11:39:40 AM
Thanks for posting that, 3MX. I was thinking more of the area between Silver Spring and Good Hope Road. With Nicolet High School on the west and Port Washington Road running closely alongside on the east, it looks like it will be tough to squeeze in a third lane in each direction within the existing ROW.

They are taking some homes to expand Port Washington Road and give the freeway a little more room for 6 lanes:
https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/se/43n-s-corridor/2020materials/maps/port-washington3.pdf (https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/se/43n-s-corridor/2020materials/maps/port-washington3.pdf)
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: hobsini2 on September 06, 2021, 05:21:54 PM
Aside from the expansion to 6 lanes and the new Highland Rd interchange, I really like that they are going to make Hwy 100 Brown Deer Rd a DDI. Makes a ton of sense.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on June 10, 2022, 01:40:19 PM
Use this thread for posts on Milwaukee-area freeways, such as the proposed conversion of the Stadium Interchange into a DDI.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: dvferyance on June 14, 2022, 07:55:43 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.


There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide.  And that area has been growing more and more.  Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Using Seven Mile Road interchange would have worked just fine.

Not really.
Why do you say that? It's less than a mile south of where the old interchange was. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used for 27th street traffic.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2022, 09:28:04 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.


There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide.  And that area has been growing more and more.  Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Using Seven Mile Road interchange would have worked just fine.

Not really.
Why do you say that? It's less than a mile south of where the old interchange was. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used for 27th street traffic.

Look at a map. It is completely inconvenient with the routing 27th Street takes there. Especially considering that growth is likely to continue to occur there. Getting the Elm St interchange built makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: peterj920 on June 21, 2022, 10:26:05 PM
The Brewers think itís worth studying replacing the Parkway by the Stadium with an at grade street. Itís surprising that this is being considered since that section was completely rebuilt 20 years ago and does a great job funneling game day traffic to the stadium.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 22, 2022, 04:57:43 AM
The Brewers think itís worth studying replacing the Parkway by the Stadium with an at grade street. Itís surprising that this is being considered since that section was completely rebuilt 20 years ago and does a great job funneling game day traffic to the stadium.

I donít believe the interchange was touched as part of that though. And thatís whatís driving this discussion.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: JREwing78 on June 22, 2022, 12:01:56 PM

The Brewers think itís worth studying replacing the Parkway by the Stadium with an at grade street. Itís surprising that this is being considered since that section was completely rebuilt 20 years ago and does a great job funneling game day traffic to the stadium.


I donít believe the interchange was touched as part of that though. And thatís whatís driving this discussion.



Correct. The interchange itself is end-of-life per WisDOT (dating from the 1960s) and has to be replaced with something. Initial discussion was to do a 4-level interchange, but that was shot down by the locals. WisDOT is now considering a diverging diamond variant (which would be significantly cheaper and less politically problematic).

EDITed to fix flaky coding.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: on_wisconsin on June 22, 2022, 04:49:39 PM
The Brewers think itís worth studying replacing the Parkway by the Stadium with an at grade street. Itís surprising that this is being considered since that section was completely rebuilt 20 years ago and does a great job funneling game day traffic to the stadium.

The team has recently been pitching ideas about creating an "Lifestyle/ Entertainment District" in the parking lots across Miller Park Way Brewers Blvd.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: skluth on June 22, 2022, 08:09:10 PM
The Brewers think itís worth studying replacing the Parkway by the Stadium with an at grade street. Itís surprising that this is being considered since that section was completely rebuilt 20 years ago and does a great job funneling game day traffic to the stadium.

The team has recently been pitching ideas about creating an "Lifestyle/ Entertainment District" in the parking lots across Miller Park Brewers Way.

That seems to be the trend lately. The Packers have their Titletown (https://www.titletown.com/). St Louis Cardinals have their Ballpark District (https://www.stlballparkvillage.com/). I think it all started in modern times with the Baltimore Inner Harbor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_Harbor) hosting the Orioles within Camden Yards. Can't blame the Brewers for jumping on that lucrative bandwagon.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: mgk920 on June 23, 2022, 08:23:10 AM
The Packers based their 'Titletown District' on Patriot Place in Massachusetts.

Mike
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 23, 2022, 09:05:06 AM
The Brewers think itís worth studying replacing the Parkway by the Stadium with an at grade street. Itís surprising that this is being considered since that section was completely rebuilt 20 years ago and does a great job funneling game day traffic to the stadium.

The team has recently been pitching ideas about creating an "Lifestyle/ Entertainment District" in the parking lots across Miller Park Brewers Way.

That seems to be the trend lately. The Packers have their Titletown (https://www.titletown.com/). St Louis Cardinals have their Ballpark District (https://www.stlballparkvillage.com/). I think it all started in modern times with the Baltimore Inner Harbor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_Harbor) hosting the Orioles within Camden Yards. Can't blame the Brewers for jumping on that lucrative bandwagon.


We used to pre-game at a bar a couple blocks from Lambeau Field in what is now the Titletown district.  That bar is now gone with Hinterland Brewery in its place, which has much better food, much better beer, but is WAY more expensive.  And its busy year round, not just game and practice days.

Smart move by sports teams to collect that revenue.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: FightingIrish on June 23, 2022, 11:25:22 AM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.


There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide.  And that area has been growing more and more.  Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Using Seven Mile Road interchange would have worked just fine.

Not really.
Why do you say that? It's less than a mile south of where the old interchange was. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used for 27th street traffic.

Look at a map. It is completely inconvenient with the routing 27th Street takes there. Especially considering that growth is likely to continue to occur there. Getting the Elm St interchange built makes perfect sense.
The Seven Mile Road interchange is definitely not a suitable substitute for the former 27th Street one. For one, it involves winding around a busy two-lane frontage road, that gets very busy during the warmer months because of Seven Mile Fair.

It is only marked as WIS 241 because 27th Street becomes the west Frontage Rd., and that's already a state-maintained route anyway. Notice that WIS 241 actually ends just before the Seven Mile interchange, as the SB Frontage Rd. picks up again?

As for accessing 27th St, the new Elm Rd. exit is effective, and will become even more so as businesses start to build in that expanded area.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: The Ghostbuster on June 23, 2022, 12:14:33 PM
If I had my way, I would have had the STH 241 designation turn east onto the new W. Elm Rd., and have 241 terminate at the new Exit 324. Unfortunetly, it looks like STH 241's relocated southern terminus will permanently remain at Exit 326.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: hobsini2 on June 23, 2022, 12:15:17 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.


There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide.  And that area has been growing more and more.  Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Using Seven Mile Road interchange would have worked just fine.

Not really.
Why do you say that? It's less than a mile south of where the old interchange was. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used for 27th street traffic.

Look at a map. It is completely inconvenient with the routing 27th Street takes there. Especially considering that growth is likely to continue to occur there. Getting the Elm St interchange built makes perfect sense.
The Seven Mile Road interchange is definitely not a suitable substitute for the former 27th Street one. For one, it involves winding around a busy two-lane frontage road, that gets very busy during the warmer months because of Seven Mile Fair.

It is only marked as WIS 241 because 27th Street becomes the west Frontage Rd., and that's already a state-maintained route anyway. Notice that WIS 241 actually ends just before the Seven Mile interchange, as the SB Frontage Rd. picks up again?

As for accessing 27th St, the new Elm Rd. exit is effective, and will become even more so as businesses start to build in that expanded area.

If the state saw it that way, why didn't they just realign 241 onto Elm Rd and have 27th St south of Elm become a county road? Just sayin.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: triplemultiplex on June 23, 2022, 02:43:39 PM
The team has recently been pitching ideas about creating an "Lifestyle/ Entertainment District" in the parking lots across Miller Park Way Brewers Blvd.

I suppose that would be a better use of the land than just parking; especially with the Menomonee River right there.  I'm sure some will complain about the loss of parking and tailgating space, but there'd still be acres and acres of pavement for that.  The way the valley has been going through a renaissance since the Millennium, it would create a nice continuation of what's going on there.

That being the case, I think that makes it more essential to maintain the grade separation between all those pedestrians and the cars on 175.  It would be annoying to have to pile across a major thoroughfare on a crosswalk instead of the leisurely stroll across an overpass.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: Henry on June 23, 2022, 03:24:57 PM
The Brewers think itís worth studying replacing the Parkway by the Stadium with an at grade street. Itís surprising that this is being considered since that section was completely rebuilt 20 years ago and does a great job funneling game day traffic to the stadium.

The team has recently been pitching ideas about creating an "Lifestyle/ Entertainment District" in the parking lots across Miller Park Brewers Way.

That seems to be the trend lately. The Packers have their Titletown (https://www.titletown.com/). St Louis Cardinals have their Ballpark District (https://www.stlballparkvillage.com/). I think it all started in modern times with the Baltimore Inner Harbor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_Harbor) hosting the Orioles within Camden Yards. Can't blame the Brewers for jumping on that lucrative bandwagon.
The Packers based their 'Titletown District' on Patriot Place in Massachusetts.

Mike
Actually, it goes a century back, when the Cubs opened their ballpark in Wrigleyville. Fans could watch the games from their rooftops, and no one in the stands would care. Of course, that all changed when the team started charging the outsiders to see the action, and still they built their own bleachers high above the stadium for that.

Also, I remember hearing that the Red Sox built new seats atop the Green Monster after years of having none there. That clearly was the best thing about the Fenway renovations, and it made an already exciting fan experience even more so.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 23, 2022, 04:59:26 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.


There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide.  And that area has been growing more and more.  Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Using Seven Mile Road interchange would have worked just fine.

Not really.
Why do you say that? It's less than a mile south of where the old interchange was. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used for 27th street traffic.

Look at a map. It is completely inconvenient with the routing 27th Street takes there. Especially considering that growth is likely to continue to occur there. Getting the Elm St interchange built makes perfect sense.
The Seven Mile Road interchange is definitely not a suitable substitute for the former 27th Street one. For one, it involves winding around a busy two-lane frontage road, that gets very busy during the warmer months because of Seven Mile Fair.

It is only marked as WIS 241 because 27th Street becomes the west Frontage Rd., and that's already a state-maintained route anyway. Notice that WIS 241 actually ends just before the Seven Mile interchange, as the SB Frontage Rd. picks up again?

As for accessing 27th St, the new Elm Rd. exit is effective, and will become even more so as businesses start to build in that expanded area.

If the state saw it that way, why didn't they just realign 241 onto Elm Rd and have 27th St south of Elm become a county road? Just sayin.


It's likely due to the wierdness about mileage in different counties that WIDOT uses to base these decisions.  Relocation would reduce WI-241's mileage in two counties.  And both would likely rather have the current route maintained as a state highway than the new route.

And WIDOT signs both Seven Mile and Elm as "To WI-241" on their respective BGS.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SSOWorld on June 23, 2022, 07:50:00 PM
241 does at end the interchange - the state puts END markers well ahead of the end (there are a few exceptions)

Packers have "Titletown", Bucks have a shot-up ;) "Deer District" - why not give the Brewers a strip mall called the "Beer Garden"? :bigass:
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: GeekJedi on June 25, 2022, 11:45:35 AM
241 does at end the interchange - the state puts END markers well ahead of the end (there are a few exceptions)

Packers have "Titletown", Bucks have a shot-up ;) "Deer District" - why not give the Brewers a strip mall called the "Beer Garden"? :bigass:

That must've been a recent change. 241 used to end at 7 Mile Rd.

https://goo.gl/maps/MNdRcLs9xbUm6nR66
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: FightingIrish on June 25, 2022, 05:16:30 PM
241 does at end the interchange - the state puts END markers well ahead of the end (there are a few exceptions)

Packers have "Titletown", Bucks have a shot-up ;) "Deer District" - why not give the Brewers a strip mall called the "Beer Garden"? :bigass:
The question is, does the state maintain Seven Mile Road between the two frontage roads and under I-41/94?
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SSOWorld on June 26, 2022, 06:13:51 AM
241 does at end the interchange - the state puts END markers well ahead of the end (there are a few exceptions)

Packers have "Titletown", Bucks have a shot-up ;) "Deer District" - why not give the Brewers a strip mall called the "Beer Garden"? :bigass:

That must've been a recent change. 241 used to end at 7 Mile Rd.

https://goo.gl/maps/MNdRcLs9xbUm6nR66
there was no end sign. ;)
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: hobsini2 on June 27, 2022, 12:18:37 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.


There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide.  And that area has been growing more and more.  Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Using Seven Mile Road interchange would have worked just fine.

Not really.
Why do you say that? It's less than a mile south of where the old interchange was. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used for 27th street traffic.

Look at a map. It is completely inconvenient with the routing 27th Street takes there. Especially considering that growth is likely to continue to occur there. Getting the Elm St interchange built makes perfect sense.
The Seven Mile Road interchange is definitely not a suitable substitute for the former 27th Street one. For one, it involves winding around a busy two-lane frontage road, that gets very busy during the warmer months because of Seven Mile Fair.

It is only marked as WIS 241 because 27th Street becomes the west Frontage Rd., and that's already a state-maintained route anyway. Notice that WIS 241 actually ends just before the Seven Mile interchange, as the SB Frontage Rd. picks up again?

As for accessing 27th St, the new Elm Rd. exit is effective, and will become even more so as businesses start to build in that expanded area.

If the state saw it that way, why didn't they just realign 241 onto Elm Rd and have 27th St south of Elm become a county road? Just sayin.


It's likely due to the wierdness about mileage in different counties that WIDOT uses to base these decisions.  Relocation would reduce WI-241's mileage in two counties.  And both would likely rather have the current route maintained as a state highway than the new route.


Maybe but I don't think so because 241's mileage in Milwaukee County wouldn't change much. Elm Rd is about 1/3 mile. 27th St is 1/2 mile. And Racine County would have zero as a result.  I think in the days of the old interchange, they may have had 1/4 mile if that.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: FightingIrish on June 27, 2022, 03:54:09 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.


There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide.  And that area has been growing more and more.  Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Using Seven Mile Road interchange would have worked just fine.

Not really.
Why do you say that? It's less than a mile south of where the old interchange was. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used for 27th street traffic.

Look at a map. It is completely inconvenient with the routing 27th Street takes there. Especially considering that growth is likely to continue to occur there. Getting the Elm St interchange built makes perfect sense.
The Seven Mile Road interchange is definitely not a suitable substitute for the former 27th Street one. For one, it involves winding around a busy two-lane frontage road, that gets very busy during the warmer months because of Seven Mile Fair.

It is only marked as WIS 241 because 27th Street becomes the west Frontage Rd., and that's already a state-maintained route anyway. Notice that WIS 241 actually ends just before the Seven Mile interchange, as the SB Frontage Rd. picks up again?

As for accessing 27th St, the new Elm Rd. exit is effective, and will become even more so as businesses start to build in that expanded area.

If the state saw it that way, why didn't they just realign 241 onto Elm Rd and have 27th St south of Elm become a county road? Just sayin.


It's likely due to the wierdness about mileage in different counties that WIDOT uses to base these decisions.  Relocation would reduce WI-241's mileage in two counties.  And both would likely rather have the current route maintained as a state highway than the new route.


Maybe but I don't think so because 241's mileage in Milwaukee County wouldn't change much. Elm Rd is about 1/3 mile. 27th St is 1/2 mile. And Racine County would have zero as a result.  I think in the days of the old interchange, they may have had 1/4 mile if that.
Keep in mind, the frontage road in Racine County is actually considered part of I-41/94. Thus, it's already a state highway. Therefore, running WIS 241 along it doesn't make any difference in administered mileage.

And that also explains my theory about WIS 241 ending right before the interchange, where the West Frontage Road picks up and proceeds south from Seven Mile Road.
Title: Re: Milwaukee area freeways
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 28, 2022, 06:52:49 AM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.


There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide.  And that area has been growing more and more.  Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Using Seven Mile Road interchange would have worked just fine.

Not really.
Why do you say that? It's less than a mile south of where the old interchange was. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used for 27th street traffic.

Look at a map. It is completely inconvenient with the routing 27th Street takes there. Especially considering that growth is likely to continue to occur there. Getting the Elm St interchange built makes perfect sense.
The Seven Mile Road interchange is definitely not a suitable substitute for the former 27th Street one. For one, it involves winding around a busy two-lane frontage road, that gets very busy during the warmer months because of Seven Mile Fair.

It is only marked as WIS 241 because 27th Street becomes the west Frontage Rd., and that's already a state-maintained route anyway. Notice that WIS 241 actually ends just before the Seven Mile interchange, as the SB Frontage Rd. picks up again?

As for accessing 27th St, the new Elm Rd. exit is effective, and will become even more so as businesses start to build in that expanded area.

If the state saw it that way, why didn't they just realign 241 onto Elm Rd and have 27th St south of Elm become a county road? Just sayin.


It's likely due to the wierdness about mileage in different counties that WIDOT uses to base these decisions.  Relocation would reduce WI-241's mileage in two counties.  And both would likely rather have the current route maintained as a state highway than the new route.


Maybe but I don't think so because 241's mileage in Milwaukee County wouldn't change much. Elm Rd is about 1/3 mile. 27th St is 1/2 mile. And Racine County would have zero as a result.  I think in the days of the old interchange, they may have had 1/4 mile if that.


This doesn't refute anything I said.

Regardless, my overall point is that WIDOT's signing of WI-241 has little to do with what their "preferred route" to get from I-41/94 to South 27th Street.