A couple updates for the ongoing Mitchell Interchange reconstruction and the Zoo Interchange study.
First off in the Mitchell Interchange (I-43/94/894), the long term closure of the ramp following I-43 NB through the interchange (EB->NB physically) has started recently. This system ramp will be closed for pretty much the rest of the year. Elsewhere in the project, traffic has been shunted into the future c/d lanes between the Mitchell and College Ave. while the mainline is torn up. I'm impressed with the area around I-894 and 27th St where they are dropping the grade of the freeway considerably.
NB through the Plainfield Curve, just north of the Mitchell, is in it's final alignment and already a great relief. Evidence exists for the final lane configuration to get 5 NB lanes coming out of the Mitchell down to 3 by breaking up the Howard and Holt Ave. exits. Previously, both exits shot off of a c/d lane NB. Now they have been separated with the Howard Ave. exit by itself and the Holt Ave exit as the starting point for the c/d lane. Each exit will strip a lane from the freeway NB.
Meanwhile, over at the Zoo Interchange study, WisDOT has released a supplemental DIES with a new alternative for consideration based on feedback from the public. It's billed as the "reduced impacts" alternative as it takes fewer properties, but still expands the approaching freeways to 8 lanes at a slightly lower design speed.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/sefreeways/zooenviron.htm (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/sefreeways/zooenviron.htm)
There's a PIM next month that I'll probably drop by. I have a feeling many of the elements from this alternative will make it into the final design. Most of this new alternative is fairly "oh okay, whatever" with one notable exception; the US 45 interchange with Watertown Plank:
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/zoointrchng/docs/sdeis-ex226.pdf (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/zoointrchng/docs/sdeis-ex226.pdf)
It would turn this boring ol' diamond interchange into a totally free-flow parclo by incorporating the same hairpin ramps that are going in at I-43/894 and 27th St. It's very interesting. I think WisDOT's been getting a lot of feedback from people concerned about access to the large medical campus immediately east of there. It's an interesting solution, but I'm worried about the spacing between Watertown Plank and Bluemound Rd. If they were the braid ramps from these two interchanges, we might have a winner.
At the Zoo Interchange, I haven't heard yet, is WDOT straightening out the through lanes for NB 45? That slight S curve is always backed up when I drive up to Oshkosh.
As far as the Marquette goes, I thought they were done with this project last year.
And while I am at it, what is the timetable for the Airport Spur ramps to be finished?
Quote from: hobsini2 on February 25, 2011, 07:39:24 AM
At the Zoo Interchange, I haven't heard yet, is WDOT straightening out the through lanes for NB 45? That slight S curve is always backed up when I drive up to Oshkosh.
As far as the Marquette goes, I thought they were done with this project last year.
And while I am at it, what is the timetable for the Airport Spur ramps to be finished?
From what I am seeing in those drawings, yes, US 45 (future I-57?) through that interchange will be straightened out to roughly follow the routing of the present-day southbound side. One thing that I would definitely bring up in the design hearings is that eastbound left lane drop/traffic shift on I-94 by State Fair Park. All four of the mainline lanes should continue through. Ditto the left lane add on the westbound side there. WisDOT had to fix an identical silly left lane drop on eastbound I-94 in Brookfield a few years ago, too.
Mike
Busy time for I-94 around here. We've got ourselves a little repaving this year.
http://repave94.org/ (http://repave94.org/)
Brookfield and Waukesha are getting a fresh coat as well as the area through the Stadium Interchange. So watch out for that if the Brewer game you're at goes into extras.
That's why i like using Miller Park Way from National Ave to get to the ballpark. And leaving I always use Wisconsin Ave and find my way to 94 East and use 794 (Hoan Bridge) just to scare the hell out of my friend. He has a fear of high bridges. I found that out on a roadtrip to Penn State when we used the Chicago Skyway. :)
Alternative 1 for US-45 got a interesting use of service roads system
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/zoointrchng/docs/sdeis-ex216.pdf
Alternative 3 include even a roundabout for one of the ramp and connectors streets
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/zoointrchng/docs/sdeis-ex218.pdf
Visited WisDOT's PIM this week about the Zoo Interchange. It sounds like the "reduced impacts" alternative is receiving the most positive feedback. (see link in thread's first post)
And by and large I'd have to agree that it's the best one. The complicated series of ramps and frontage roads along US 45 north of the Zoo in the other alternatives seem like overkill. Plus, I'm starting to dig the wild parclo at Watertown Plank. My only concern with the R.I. Alt is the spacing between service ramps in a couple spots. Graphics on display indicated interchange would operate at LOS D or better during normal peak conditions with the R.I. Alt. At this point, I'd expect the final design to closely resemble the R.I. Alt.
In talking with one of the engineers, one of the bigger complicating factors in working with this interchange is rail-related. The rail-trail corridor that parallels I-94 in this area requires that they make bridges high enough to accommodate a hypothetical conversion back to rail, regardless of how unlikely it may be. That restricts what they can do in the Z-axis, so to speak. It also ads cost. This is despite a total lack of precedent for a rail trail going back to rail. In my opinion, if trains ever run on these tracks again, it'll probably be some commuter rail that at least doesn't have the same vertical clearance requirements as freight tracks.
The engineer also commented on how "fun" it is to come up with a way to replace the UP railroad bridge over I-94 in the project area.
Speaking to Mike's point about a left lane drop; I did not notice any instance of that in any of the displays.
Lastly, I should mention that the engineer I talked to was actual a UW basketball player back when they made the Final Four like 10 years ago. I only found this out after I had left, which is probably for the better. I'd hate to keep a guy from his job. (Go Badgers tonight!)
QuoteThis is despite a total lack of precedent for a rail trail going back to rail. In my opinion, if trains ever run on these tracks again, it'll probably be some commuter rail that at least doesn't have the same vertical clearance requirements as freight tracks.
Can't think of any post-construction cases offhand, but there's at least 2 planning cases I know of, one in Minneapolis, another in the DC suburbs.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 24, 2011, 04:59:02 PM
Visited WisDOT's PIM this week about the Zoo Interchange. It sounds like the "reduced impacts" alternative is receiving the most positive feedback. (see link in thread's first post)
And by and large I'd have to agree that it's the best one. The complicated series of ramps and frontage roads along US 45 north of the Zoo in the other alternatives seem like overkill. Plus, I'm starting to dig the wild parclo at Watertown Plank. My only concern with the R.I. Alt is the spacing between service ramps in a couple spots. Graphics on display indicated interchange would operate at LOS D or better during normal peak conditions with the R.I. Alt. At this point, I'd expect the final design to closely resemble the R.I. Alt.
In talking with one of the engineers, one of the bigger complicating factors in working with this interchange is rail-related. The rail-trail corridor that parallels I-94 in this area requires that they make bridges high enough to accommodate a hypothetical conversion back to rail, regardless of how unlikely it may be. That restricts what they can do in the Z-axis, so to speak. It also ads cost. This is despite a total lack of precedent for a rail trail going back to rail. In my opinion, if trains ever run on these tracks again, it'll probably be some commuter rail that at least doesn't have the same vertical clearance requirements as freight tracks.
The engineer also commented on how "fun" it is to come up with a way to replace the UP railroad bridge over I-94 in the project area.
Speaking to Mike's point about a left lane drop; I did not notice any instance of that in any of the displays.
Lastly, I should mention that the engineer I talked to was actual a UW basketball player back when they made the Final Four like 10 years ago. I only found this out after I had left, which is probably for the better. I'd hate to keep a guy from his job. (Go Badgers tonight!)
Driven through this interchange quite a few times on the way to MN. In looking at the aerials for the "reduced impacts" plan, it looks like I-94 narrows to 2 lanes in each direction through the interchange. I was just curious if they were planning on leaving room for a future third lane or HOV/HOT lane in each direction? Seems to me like that would leave a pretty nasty bottleneck, but you live there so you would know better than I.
Quote
Couple comments from a trip to the Milwaukee area today:
* The WI 794 freeway/Lake Parkway has got to be one of the worst speed traps in the country; seriously, that route can easily be posted at 55, not 40.
* There's about as much redevelopment along I-794 as there is in the old Park Freeway East corridor. It might have helped if I took an old map with me to be sure, but I think a lot of the corridor was still open. In any case, the traffic signal timing for the replacement street is appalling, as is the font on one of the street signs.
* Whoever is in charge of construction that blocked access to the ramp near Marquette Interchange to WB I-94 did not bother to cover up all the signs directing traffic to this ramp.
* WB I-94 west of the US 41 interchange was awfully congested for a Saturday (most likely from the construction).
* The ramp meters around Milwaukee are a bit irritating, especially on I-94 west of I-894.
Quote from: ToledoRoadgeek on April 02, 2011, 11:55:38 AMIn looking at the aerials for the "reduced impacts" plan, it looks like I-94 narrows to 2 lanes in each direction through the interchange. I was just curious if they were planning on leaving room for a future third lane or HOV/HOT lane in each direction? Seems to me like that would leave a pretty nasty bottleneck, but you live there so you would know better than I.
As was the case when the Marquette Interchange was rebuilt, WisDOT will be leaving room for 6 lanes on I-94 through the interchange. They might be able to to get away with 4 lanes in the near term as most of the delays the Zoo Interchange experiences are due to merging traffic.
Quote from: Revive 755Whoever is in charge of construction that blocked access to the ramp near Marquette Interchange to WB I-94 did not bother to cover up all the signs directing traffic to this ramp.
Where is that specifically? Is this the entrance from 2nd St?
Quote from: Revive 755There's about as much redevelopment along I-794 as there is in the old Park Freeway East corridor. It might have helped if I took an old map with me to be sure, but I think a lot of the corridor was still open. In any case, the traffic signal timing for the replacement street is appalling, as is the font on one of the street signs.
McKinley Ave replaced the Park East Spur and I am quite familiar with the signal timing and the sluggish redevelopment of the land. Currently, only two buildings occupy space once used by the freeway; the Kern Center on the Milwaukee School of Engineering campus and a hotel on the west bank of the river. The one thing those parcels have in common is they were not under the control of Milwaukee County after the razing of the Park East. Another parcel has been approved for use as a parking structure for MSOE with an athletic field atop it.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 04, 2011, 02:42:27 PM
Quote from: Revive 755Whoever is in charge of construction that blocked access to the ramp near Marquette Interchange to WB I-94 did not bother to cover up all the signs directing traffic to this ramp.
Where is that specifically? Is this the entrance from 2nd St?
No, the ramp near the Lovell-Clybourn intersection.
QuoteCity gives I-94 work cold shoulder
Barrett wants to nip any idea for wider freeway
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.jsonline.com%2Fimages%2FZOOINTER07G.jpg&hash=3e69031be9ba94f52ab44604b5c1347d1d2ffdd5)
By Tom Held of the Journal Sentinel
In the eyes of Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett and other top city leaders, the broad shoulders in the plans for rebuilding I-94 near Miller Park look like an attempt to muscle forward an expansion of the east-west freeway.
Two top officials in the city Department of Public Works have asked that the super-sized shoulders - 18 feet wide compared with the standard 12 feet - be removed from the state's plans to rebuild the Zoo Interchange, and the mayor backed that request in an interview.
"We are concerned about this whole notion of 18-foot shoulders," Barrett said. "We don't want a backdoor waiver from the federal government to allow them to transform them into lanes.
"We want to be vocal and consistent and raise the issue right now."
Barrett, neighborhood groups and the Milwaukee Common Council have long opposed expansion of the freeway between the Zoo Interchange on the western edge of the city and the Marquette Interchange downtown.
In 2002, the council adopted a resolution opposing expansion of that section of freeway.
In 2009, however, engineers from the state Department of Transportation put forward a plan to expand I-94 to eight lanes - four in each direction - from 70th St. to 124th St. It was one of the favored alternatives for the Zoo Interchange reconstruction, and the most expensive, with a price tag of $2.3 billion.
It also required removal of 39 properties, including homes and businesses along I-94.
The draft plan made the case that eight lanes would be necessary to reduce congestion on a portion of freeway that carries roughly 150,000 to 175,000 vehicles a day, based on DOT figures.
That plan was delayed by Gov. Jim Doyle, who put little money into the project in his 2009-'11 budget.
Under Gov. Scott Walker, the DOT shaved the Interchange reconstruction cost to $1.7 billion, in large part by keeping the east-west freeway six lanes, with the wider shoulders built in to provide for future expansion. The shoulders would be on the median side of the freeway.
In the revised interchange plans, Interstate 894/Highway 45 would be expanded to eight lanes in the preferred option, now under consideration.
The letter objecting to the super-sized shoulders was sent by City Engineer Jeffrey Polenske and Commissioner of Public Works Jeffrey Mantes, as part of the public comment on the alternatives presented by the DOT last month.
The city officials noted that the option including the wide shoulders would require demolition of an eight-unit apartment complex on Chester St., near N. 92nd St., and push the freeway closer to other homes and businesses. They suggested the DOT follow an alternate plan: three lanes in each direction on I-94 with frontage roads between 76th and 84th streets, serving as part of the freeway exit and entrance ramps.
That would incorporate a Texas U-turn design for the interchange at 84th St.
"It's been my position and the city's long-held position, we don't want neighborhoods, cemeteries or businesses disturbed," Barrett said.
In their letter, Polenske and Mantes also asked that the DOT incorporate a transit option and "take a more proactive role in the development of intercity rapid and express transit service in the region."
A spokeswoman for the DOT said the recommendations from city officials would be considered, along with the other comments provided as part of the public hearings.
Bob Gutierrez, Zoo Interchange project director with the DOT, said the expanded shoulders would be vital for traffic flow during the reconstruction project. In addition, they also could be used for an added traffic lane if and when that became necessary.
In an earlier interview, Transportation Secretary Mark Gottlieb said the alternative shared in March was responsive to the objections of the local residents, reduced the footprint of the freeway, yet provided an option for expansion if necessary.
"We have the ability to be expansive in the future," he said.
With regard to transit, Gottlieb repeated that the responsibility to develop public transit rested with local governments and regional transit authorities. Adding buses or light rail would not alleviate the need to improve and possibly expand the freeway, he said.
Now that the public comment period has closed, the DOT can complete its preferred option for the Zoo Interchange work and submit its plans to the Federal Highway Administration.
If approved, the construction would start on local streets in 2013 and 2014. The major rebuilding of the state's busiest interchange would start in 2015 and finish in 2018.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/119372674.html (http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/119372674.html)
:pan:
No surprise here. The Reduced Impacts Alternative for the Zoo Interchange is WisDOT's preferred alternative:
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_2688.html_786229440.html (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_2688.html_786229440.html)
Looks like WisDOT has the url "zooic.org" reserved for the project. Though right now it just redirects to the study's page.
They sure like the u-shaped ramps.
Quote from: Master son on May 31, 2011, 07:58:58 PM
They sure like the u-shaped ramps.
I wonder if a SPUI or a diverging diamond for this interchange at Waterdown Plank Rd would have enough capacity at this location?
The reduced impact variant might have some inconviences in the more long-term. One advantage of a service road would had put the local traffic going from US-18 to Waterdown Plank road separate from the main freeway lanes. Oh well...
WisDOT wrapped up the paving & bridge re-decking on I-94 (East-West Freeway portion) this week just in time for Summerfest. WB has been particularly gnarly during this project as all traffic coming out of the Marquette interchange was crammed into two lanes by 25th St. It's noteworthy that the two segments repaved this year (and next) flank the project limits for the Zoo Interchange.
EB 94 gets the same treatment next year in Milwaukee County.
Also this week, there's a minor shift down in the Mitchell Interchange for SB traffic as they move on to temporary ramps. The interesting thing is the map WisDOT has:
http://www.plan94.org/assets/i94/documents/Mitchell_IC_construction_update_2B2C_052511.pdf (http://www.plan94.org/assets/i94/documents/Mitchell_IC_construction_update_2B2C_052511.pdf)
If you pay attention to the background map (the grey) it's actually some sort of staging map that shows the temporary alignments of the NB->WB & EB->SB ramps and the half complete Layton Ave. interchange.
Pretty cool.
I drove through that eastbound on Saturday afternoon. Surprisingly slow.
A curiosity I found on the I-94 North-South project in Milwaukee: Brand-new concrete overlaid with asphalt. Check out the pictures of the progress at Grange Ave: http://dailyreporter.com/i-94-slideshow/
I always found Milwaukee to be an easy city to navigate, and it appears to have a nice freeway system for a city of its size. One of the nicer things I've seen was on the 94/43 before the curves near the Mitchell Interchange. There is a speed limit sign that will flash a warning "Too Fast for Curve" if that's indeed how the person is driving.
That'd be nice in some areas of southern California....though I'm sure easily ignored!
That sign will no longer be needed as WisDOT smooths out that curve. In fact, it's been taken down already while the SB lanes get rebuilt near Howard Ave. But there's another one SB on I-43 at North Ave.
This week there was a big checkpoint on the road to completing the Mitchell Interchange. The new ramps for NB->WB and EB->SB opened along with most of the C/D lanes between College Ave and Layton. They have yet to open on their connection back to I-43/94 north of Layton, however, resulting in some temporary detours for traffic between the airport and downtown. By year's end, though, the core of the new interchange will be done with all system ramps open.
One cool aspect of the new system ramps is rather than traditional bridges, the ramps pass over and under each other in cut-and-cover-tunnels. Very cool way to work within the existing footprint.
does anyone know if there are any plans for reconstruction/expansion of US45/US41 north of Burleigh st? most of that roadway is in pretty rough shape, and there is often congestion north of the US41/US45 split near richfield. is there any plans/talks about even resurfacing this strech?
Looks like US 45 between Burleigh & Good Hope is scheduled for resurfacing in the next 3 years. Aside from that, I don't see any paving or expansion plans before 2016. That's kind of surprising considering how crummy the pavement is getting through Menomonee Falls and Germantown.
WisDOT is planning to modernize the last of the old service interchanges on US 41 there at WI 144 in Slinger in that time frame, so that'll be nice. It'd be a good time to decommission that piece of WI 144 southwest of West Bend.
When SEWRPC did their big freeway study some ten years ago, they recommended six lanes for US 41 out to WI 60 (with 8 lanes to Good Hope), but other than that, I know of no plans for more lanes or anything. And as a person who has joined the caravan of north-bounders on Friday afternoons, I don't really have a problem with that. It only seems like it slows a little through Falls due to the speed limit upping to 65 at the county line despite the freeway maintaining it's urban interchange spacing. Really it's just a continuation of urban driving conditions up to County Line Road.
What's really inconvenient is losing that 3rd lane SB at WI 145 as if that freeway goes somewhere, only to get it back again at Good Hope. I'm surprised they didn't let 41/45 keep 3 lanes SB when the Northwest Interchange was rebuilt in 2000. The overpass at Good Hope is ready and waiting to accommodate such a correction.
Took a drive through the Mitchell Interchange while doing some errands today. I needed to check out the tunnel ramp that opened last month for NB->WB.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi113.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn208%2Ftriplemultiplex%2FMitchell%2520Interchange%252018%2520Nov%252011%2FIMG_1621.jpg%3Ft%3D1321655212&hash=1964ad032e14fd1a89210da69223c814ad22b638)
I got on NB at College Ave to check out the new C/D setup which is pretty much in it's final configuration south of Layton Ave. Here's the exit for the airport spur.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi113.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn208%2Ftriplemultiplex%2FMitchell%2520Interchange%252018%2520Nov%252011%2FIMG_1623.jpg%3Ft%3D1321655212&hash=11ac1e191330c5cb0bc00cf03b61a25a5ddc4580)
Here's the split between I-94 and I-894 which is now a full mile south of the actual interchange. That overpass is Grange Ave.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi113.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn208%2Ftriplemultiplex%2FMitchell%2520Interchange%252018%2520Nov%252011%2FIMG_1629.jpg%3Ft%3D1321657543&hash=c3cb30b8dbc733408cb3b092a1ed313ab7864c81)
Here's the entrance to the WB I-894 tunnel underneath I-94. Note the little cartoony silhouette of Milwaukee's skyline complete with Miller Park and the Mitchell Park Domes on the left and the Art Museum and the US Bank Center on the right with some sailboats. For the record, such a view of Milwaukee is impossible.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi113.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn208%2Ftriplemultiplex%2FMitchell%2520Interchange%252018%2520Nov%252011%2FIMG_1630.jpg%3Ft%3D1321657207&hash=9c5ab6a32b9754166d97861b79fbeb784c99d754)
Inside the tunnel, two lanes are currently open. When finished, there will be 3 lanes here. Hence the extra space behind the temporary barrier on the left.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi113.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn208%2Ftriplemultiplex%2FMitchell%2520Interchange%252018%2520Nov%252011%2FIMG_1633.jpg%3Ft%3D1321657724&hash=1b534b11d35574d9f54cc201e75299c5053a7558)
Here's the WB entrance ramp from 27th St getting 'decked' out. This is first of multiple U ramps WisDOT is deploying around Milwaukee in the next decade.
I have more, but don't want to overload the thread.
That view of Milwaukee is impossible? It is in the correct order if you look from the south...not to scale though.
You'd never be able to see all those landmarks from a single vantage like that. Mostly due to the small height of the Domes and the Art Museum. Maybe if you were atop a residential high rise in the Bayview neighborhood, but even then the Hoan Bridge would block the art museum. But from the ground? Forget about it.
I thought it was ironic that such a picture adorns the entrance to a tunnel that leads one away from Milwaukee.
I'm glad to see WisDOT is continuing with the Brewers-colored freeway structures started in the Marquette rebuild. That's a concept that should be embraced in other parts of the state. The new flyovers that will go up in Green Bay would look really sweet with green girders and yellow concrete. ;)
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 21, 2011, 05:59:21 PM
You'd never be able to see all those landmarks from a single vantage like that. Mostly due to the small height of the Domes and the Art Museum. Maybe if you were atop a residential high rise in the Bayview neighborhood, but even then the Hoan Bridge would block the art museum. But from the ground? Forget about it.
I thought it was ironic that such a picture adorns the entrance to a tunnel that leads one away from Milwaukee.
I'm glad to see WisDOT is continuing with the Brewers-colored freeway structures started in the Marquette rebuild. That's a concept that should be embraced in other parts of the state. The new flyovers that will go up in Green Bay would look really sweet with green girders and yellow concrete. ;)
They'd have to place a patrol car car there to keep Bears fans from defacing those. :-D
The ramp for I-43 NB through the Mitchell Interchange opened last week and I snapped some pics of the new tunnel ramp. So all system movements are now open.
This is the 43/894 split underneath 27th St. When complete, we'll have 4 EB lanes from Loomis Rd. to this point.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi113.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn208%2Ftriplemultiplex%2FMitchell%2520Interchange%252028%2520Dec%252011%2FIMG_1671.jpg%3Ft%3D1325106629&hash=8e167574fd5f1bce58e1dfc1bca70ad9dc2375fb)
The entrance to the first tunnel bears the same pictographic version of the Milwaukee skyline as NB->WB. The first tunnel dives under EB->SB and NB->WB ramps. Only one lane is open for now, but as you can see, it will have two lanes in final configuration.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi113.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn208%2Ftriplemultiplex%2FMitchell%2520Interchange%252028%2520Dec%252011%2FIMG_1675.jpg%3Ft%3D1325106715&hash=1b22213dcf29e0700f442d6189d4f98ad16cb0e7)
There's brief gap before the second tunnel under I-94. Having them in rapid succession reminds me a lot of the I-35 tunnels in Duluth.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi113.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn208%2Ftriplemultiplex%2FMitchell%2520Interchange%252028%2520Dec%252011%2FIMG_1677.jpg%3Ft%3D1325106715&hash=a178240803d35bc513e2e0df95179014553d31be)
With the 27th St. interchange fully open with its trend-setting U-ramps, all that remains in the Mitchell Interchange is completion of mainline I-94 through the interchange area and the north ends of the c/d setup between here and College Ave. The system ramps are very nice and most drivers won't even have to slow down to navigate them in light traffic.
I really like the airplane on the upper right corner of that BGS!! That's a cool feature, and looks a lot nicer than adding a green tab with an airplane on top of the assembly.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on December 29, 2011, 10:19:41 AM
I really like the airplane on the upper right corner of that BGS!! That's a cool feature, and looks a lot nicer than adding a green tab with an airplane on top of the assembly.
That's been a feature of Milwaukee-area BGS's for as long as I can remember. When I see the tab version in other cities, my first thought used to be, "Oh they forgot to put it on the original sign and had to add it later."
Quote from: triplemultiplex on December 29, 2011, 05:15:28 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on December 29, 2011, 10:19:41 AM
I really like the airplane on the upper right corner of that BGS!! That's a cool feature, and looks a lot nicer than adding a green tab with an airplane on top of the assembly.
That's been a feature of Milwaukee-area BGS's for as long as I can remember. When I see the tab version in other cities, my first thought used to be, "Oh they forgot to put it on the original sign and had to add it later."
I don't recall seeing such airplane images on Metro Milwaukee BGSs before. ISTR that BGS directionals to the airport were always spelled out "Gen. Mitchell International Airport".
Also, I had some time off today and drove down to the Milwaukee area to check out the progress on the Mitchell interchange, among other things. I found it interesting that someone has attached a USA flag to one of the overhead sign bridges on the ramp leading up to the EB to NB tunnels - something that I have DEFINITELY never seen before!.
Mike
The Southeastern Wisconsin Regional Planning Commission (SEWRPC) is studying a southern extension of the Lake Parkway to WI 100.
http://www.sewrpc.org/SEWRPC/Transportation/LakeParkwayExtensionStudy.htm (http://www.sewrpc.org/SEWRPC/Transportation/LakeParkwayExtensionStudy.htm)
The extension would be physically similar to the existing parkway; 4 lanes w right shoulder, but not much left shoulder, 40 MPH (ha!) SL & restrictions on trucks. This pdf has a bunch of maps of the rough concept.
http://www.sewrpc.org/SEWRPCFiles/CommissionFiles/CommitteeFiles/2011/2011-11-14-minutes-lpes-att-01.pdf (http://www.sewrpc.org/SEWRPCFiles/CommissionFiles/CommitteeFiles/2011/2011-11-14-minutes-lpes-att-01.pdf)
I attended a PIM for this proposal this week and there seems to be a lot of support in the south shore suburbs. I and several others talked with some of the folks there about the atrocious jughandle interchange proposed for College Ave. (FYI, they put it in the SW quadrant because the Post Office was supposed to build a distribution center in what would be the SE quadrant, but now it sounds like that might not happen.) I also brought up the idea of having the cross-streets go over the parkway instead of under so they can also bridge the parallel UP railroad.
Apparently, one of the mayors down there has a long range vision of the Lake Parkway connecting to WI 31 in northern Racine County, in effect creating a much tamer version of the 1960's proposal for the Lake Freeway between Milwaukee and Chicago.
The next step is to hand the project off to WisDOT for preliminary engineering, and development of alternatives since SEWRPC will almost certainly recommend to proceed (SEWRPC is generally regarded as pro-highway). SEWRPC is accepting public comments for the next two weeks still, so chime in if you like. See that first URL.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 02, 2012, 05:03:16 PM
The Southeastern Wisconsin Regional Planning Commission (SEWRPC) is studying a southern extension of the Lake Parkway to WI 100.
http://www.sewrpc.org/SEWRPC/Transportation/LakeParkwayExtensionStudy.htm (http://www.sewrpc.org/SEWRPC/Transportation/LakeParkwayExtensionStudy.htm)
The extension would be physically similar to the existing parkway; 4 lanes w right shoulder, but not much left shoulder, 40 MPH (ha!) SL & restrictions on trucks. This pdf has a bunch of maps of the rough concept.
http://www.sewrpc.org/SEWRPCFiles/CommissionFiles/CommitteeFiles/2011/2011-11-14-minutes-lpes-att-01.pdf (http://www.sewrpc.org/SEWRPCFiles/CommissionFiles/CommitteeFiles/2011/2011-11-14-minutes-lpes-att-01.pdf)
I attended a PIM for this proposal this week and there seems to be a lot of support in the south shore suburbs. I and several others talked with some of the folks there about the atrocious jughandle interchange proposed for College Ave. (FYI, they put it in the SW quadrant because the Post Office was supposed to build a distribution center in what would be the SE quadrant, but now it sounds like that might not happen.) I also brought up the idea of having the cross-streets go over the parkway instead of under so they can also bridge the parallel UP railroad.
Apparently, one of the mayors down there has a long range vision of the Lake Parkway connecting to WI 31 in northern Racine County, in effect creating a much tamer version of the 1960's proposal for the Lake Freeway between Milwaukee and Chicago.
The next step is to hand the project off to WisDOT for preliminary engineering, and development of alternatives since SEWRPC will almost certainly recommend to proceed (SEWRPC is generally regarded as pro-highway). SEWRPC is accepting public comments for the next two weeks still, so chime in if you like. See that first URL.
Isn't the existing WI 794 Lake Parkway open to normal big-rig truck traffic? Why the need for restrictions farther south?
I noticed the apartment complex that was built on the original Lake Freeway ROW at Rawson Ave. I'd love to be around if and when that road might someday need upgrading to six lanes!
:spin:
Also, I agree with your thoughts on College Ave and the other crossroads. In addition, I would include provisions at WI 100 for a farther southward extension. Wouldn't a potential WI 31 connection with that be at about the Racine-Kenosha County line?
Mike
For the junction on College Avenue, (we could even include Oklahoma Avenue as well) I taught of the following based a bit on a more or less similar pattern at the junction of PQ-273 with TCH-20 at St-Apolinnaire or the ramps at the junction of PQ-116 with PQ-112 with a railroad close to the "mini-freeway" or "mini-expressway".
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=fr&ll=46.615061,-71.51443&spn=0.005711,0.009645&t=k&z=17
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=fr&ll=45.5074,-73.429613&spn=0.005827,0.009645&t=k&z=17
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FwJtc5.jpg&hash=f3cba00cf8b9f11272f92b10b582963944227750) (http://imgur.com/wJtc5)
^^
For the last few years, the USPS was looking at using the vacant land at the SE quadrant of that proposed overcrossing as the site of a new regional mail processing center, but, since those plans may now be up in the air, that might be doable.
The only difference is that I would run College Ave over both the parkway and the railroad.
Mike
On Wednesday, I attended a PIM for the upcoming Hoan Bridge and Lake Interchange redecking.
The maps they had up are here:
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/794hoan/public.htm (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/794hoan/public.htm)
The meeting was held in the SEWRPC building in downtown which lies in the shadow of the Marquette Interchange on St. Paul Ave. Damn that thing looks cool from underneath, too.
Starting next fall, WisDOT will redeck the Hoan Bridge completely. They're taking it down to the steel structure. They'll do southbound first, be done by Summerfest 2014 then do the northbound lanes after festival season.
WisDOT will be employing a zipper lane during construction with two lanes in the direction of commuter travel, one against. That should be pretty cool. They will also construct a temporary ramp on the ground by Lincoln Memorial Drive so traffic can bypass closed bridges in the Lake Interchange; essentially, traffic will exit at Lincoln Memorial and use a temporary ramp to connect to the existing WB entrance ramp. If you think that WB corner on 794 is tight now, it's got nothing on this temporary setup we'll have.
The Lake Interchange and all the ramps east of the river will be resurfaced while the entrance/exit ramps to/from Jackson & Van Buren Streets will be completely replaced with new bridges.
So that's what's happening starting next year, but a little further on the horizon there might be some interesting stuff going on there. I showed the redesign I made in the fictional thread to some engineers, but before I did, there were a couple other people there pitching another good idea on what to do with Lake Interchange. They had a nice rendering of Lincoln Memorial Drive continuing south between the Hoan Bridge ramps and connecting to Harbor Drive. From there, they proposed that a road continue west over the Milwaukee River via an abandoned railroad r/w and tie into Florida Street in the Walker's Point neighborhood. Well I thought that was pretty awesome and worked it into my Lake Interchange concept.
So you don't have to hunt for it in the redesigning interchanges thread, here it is:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi113.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn208%2Ftriplemultiplex%2FInterchanges%2FLakev2.jpg%3Ft%3D1335734648&hash=623c709d541e07683c6554d7fcb629d1556f8e1a)
As for my proposal, the SEWRPC engineers I talked to were reasonably impressed. Apparently they are kicking around some similar ideas regarding having a single WB entrance/EB exit east of the river rather than two. They liked how I moved all the ramps to the right side. I get the impression that's something they might not be doing for Jackson/Van Buren Streets since they are rebuilding them completely as-is next year.
Unless I misunderstood, there seems to be talk from the city of eliminating the ramps between Lincoln Memorial Drive and the Hoan Bridge in their ultimate design. That seems a tad foolish to me as Lincoln Memorial Drive functions very well as an artery for east side neighborhoods.
Regardless, it seems a lot of people are really high on the idea of locating Milwaukee's next great skyscraper at the junction of Lincoln Memorial Drive and Clybourn Avenue. So this Lake Interchange land that would get freed up by a redesign won't sit vacant for years like the Park East land.
^^ I like this redesign.
Personally, I'd rather keep direct access to/from Lincoln Memorial to/from the E-W portion of I-794 rather than having to sit through a few more poorly coordinated stoplights that seem to stay green for non-existent cross traffic for an eternity (a type of signal that seems quite common in Milwaukee).
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 29, 2012, 07:41:22 PM
On Wednesday, I attended a PIM for the upcoming Hoan Bridge and Lake Interchange redecking.
The maps they had up are here:
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/794hoan/public.htm (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/794hoan/public.htm)
The meeting was held in the SEWRPC building in downtown which lies in the shadow of the Marquette Interchange on St. Paul Ave. Damn that thing looks cool from underneath, too.
Starting next fall, WisDOT will redeck the Hoan Bridge completely. They're taking it down to the steel structure. They'll do southbound first, be done by Summerfest 2014 then do the northbound lanes after festival season.
WisDOT will be employing a zipper lane during construction with two lanes in the direction of commuter travel, one against. That should be pretty cool. They will also construct a temporary ramp on the ground by Lincoln Memorial Drive so traffic can bypass closed bridges in the Lake Interchange; essentially, traffic will exit at Lincoln Memorial and use a temporary ramp to connect to the existing WB entrance ramp. If you think that WB corner on 794 is tight now, it's got nothing on this temporary setup we'll have.
The Lake Interchange and all the ramps east of the river will be resurfaced while the entrance/exit ramps to/from Jackson & Van Buren Streets will be completely replaced with new bridges.
So that's what's happening starting next year, but a little further on the horizon there might be some interesting stuff going on there. I showed the redesign I made in the fictional thread to some engineers, but before I did, there were a couple other people there pitching another good idea on what to do with Lake Interchange. They had a nice rendering of Lincoln Memorial Drive continuing south between the Hoan Bridge ramps and connecting to Harbor Drive. From there, they proposed that a road continue west over the Milwaukee River via an abandoned railroad r/w and tie into Florida Street in the Walker's Point neighborhood. Well I thought that was pretty awesome and worked it into my Lake Interchange concept.
So you don't have to hunt for it in the redesigning interchanges thread, here it is:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi113.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn208%2Ftriplemultiplex%2FInterchanges%2FLakev2.jpg%3Ft%3D1335734648&hash=623c709d541e07683c6554d7fcb629d1556f8e1a)
As for my proposal, the SEWRPC engineers I talked to were reasonably impressed. Apparently they are kicking around some similar ideas regarding having a single WB entrance/EB exit east of the river rather than two. They liked how I moved all the ramps to the right side. I get the impression that's something they might not be doing for Jackson/Van Buren Streets since they are rebuilding them completely as-is next year.
Unless I misunderstood, there seems to be talk from the city of eliminating the ramps between Lincoln Memorial Drive and the Hoan Bridge in their ultimate design. That seems a tad foolish to me as Lincoln Memorial Drive functions very well as an artery for east side neighborhoods.
Regardless, it seems a lot of people are really high on the idea of locating Milwaukee's next great skyscraper at the junction of Lincoln Memorial Drive and Clybourn Avenue. So this Lake Interchange land that would get freed up by a redesign won't sit vacant for years like the Park East land.
I like your design quite a bit. Hopefully they work something like that in to whatever they ultimately do. That piece of land is too important for it to be screwed up for another 50 years. I agree with you too, that removing the ramps to Lincoln memorial drive would be dumb.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 29, 2012, 07:41:22 PM
Regardless, it seems a lot of people are really high on the idea of locating Milwaukee's next great skyscraper at the junction of Lincoln Memorial Drive and Clybourn Avenue. So this Lake Interchange land that would get freed up by a redesign won't sit vacant for years like the Park East land.
I'll believe that skyscraper when I see steel going up in the air. With all the current vacant commercial space downtown, who would be willing to take such a large risk on adding more? As for the interchange, I also agree that it would be a mistake to not connect with Lincoln Memorial Drive. That ramp is a nice, efficient way to get people out of the festival grounds in a hurry. That and it's also very convenient for when I visit my relatives that live on the east side of Milwaukee. :nod:
I like those musings, too, but would add roundabouts at Clybourn/Lincoln Memorial and Michigan/Lincoln Memorial. These would make traffic flow much more smoothly and allow easier access between I-794 to the south and the area around the Summerfest Grounds.
Also, since the Marquette rebuild, I have been thinking of the block bounded by Clybourn, James Lovell (7th), 8th and Michigan, the site of the former Clybourn Ave loop onramp to westbound I-94 in the Marquette interchange, as being the ideal location for a new signature tall building. We shall see on sites for new signature tall buildings in downtown Milwaukee, assuming that the state's business climate is indeed improving.
Mike
Quote from: DaBigE on April 30, 2012, 01:17:26 AM
I'll believe that skyscraper when I see steel going up in the air. With all the current vacant commercial space downtown, who would be willing to take such a large risk on adding more?
Well I'm assuming any redevelopment would be mixed use with any large tower(s) dominated by residences. It's been a long time since a high rise has gone up in Milwaukee that was strictly office space. It's all about mixed use these days; enable 24/7 activity, diversify the revenue streams and such.
Good news today as WisDOT reopened all lanes of EB I-94 between the Zoo and the Marquette interchanges. This ends a 2 year project to repave the freeway and redeck a few overpasses in Milwaukee and Waukesha Counties on either side of the looming Zoo Interchange project.
As it happened, I had to drive through the work zone last night and witnessed the final striping operations that wrapped up the project.
So if anyone's coming to a Brewer game or heading to one of the festivals on the lakefront, you now have clear sailing.
Down in the Mitchell Interchange, the SB c/d lane between the Mitchell and College Ave has been open for a month thus re-establishing access from downtown to the airport via freeway. We're still a month or two away from the completion of the NB c/d lane and the new widest cross-section of freeway in the state of Wisconsin (2-5-2-3 for a couple blocks around Edgerton Ave).
Striping. WOOOHOOO! j/k
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 14, 2012, 10:01:56 PM
witnessed the final striping operations that wrapped up the project.
Epoxy with grooved in wet reflective tape, or all grooved tape? Sorry, hobsini2 sparked my curiosity. :)
WisDOT has a new website for the Zoo Interchange reconstruction.
http://projects.511wi.gov/web/zoo-interchange-project (http://projects.511wi.gov/web/zoo-interchange-project)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fprojects.511wi.gov%2Fimage%2Fimage_gallery%3Fuuid%3D14395d80-0696-4079-bd53-4e917a1e3b84%26amp%3BgroupId%3D15899%26amp%3Bt%3D1340846753904&hash=1f97ec08065f9bb4ab0a367519034f81a6c69b46)
Unfortunately, the link for a pdf of the whole project is not working yet. But I've got my copy of the preferred alternative from a few months ago for my reference.
Work on some arterial streets in the area has already begun with more to start after the Wisconsin State Fair. We'll see the first orange barrels on the freeway next year at US 45 and Swan Blvd.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fprojects.511wi.gov%2Fimage%2Fimage_gallery%3Fuuid%3D9dbfe5a4-2fe3-4c79-b7cf-a5b86da9c41e%26amp%3BgroupId%3D15899%26amp%3Bt%3D1342619390168&hash=5f10b525cdb9f7be72cc66797b7a0a9af97bd848)
(larger version not yet available :( )
WisDOT also has a new study starting up for the reconstruction of I-43 between Silver Spring Dr and Mequon Rd (WI 167) on the metro area's north side. They've got some PIM's next week to solicit input from the public. I'll definitely attend one.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/43/index.htm (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/43/index.htm)
The area of this project will have to address one of Milwaukee's crappiest bottlenecks; the transition from 3 lanes to 2 NB at Silver Spring Dr. This could get interesting because rich suburban NIMBY's in these wealthy north shore suburbs have successfully killed expansions in the past. I think there was/is even a state law that supposedly would prevent expansion through this area.
But it is needed badly. I avoid rush hour(s) up there whenever possible. Not only are there capacity issues, but around Good Hope Road it is the shittiest excuse for a freeway in this region. Everything is severely deficient; sightlines, drainage, bridge clearances, shoulders; it's like your car turned into a Delorean with a flux capacitor and took you back to 1955. And I need not start in again on the hairpin-tight ramps at Brown Deer Rd. rebuilt as-is c. 2010. :banghead:
If I may ask, how's I-94 looking from the WI/IL state line to the Marquette Interchange? My wife and I are planning a trip up there in September, and I just need to know what to be on the lookout for. I look forward to the ride.
http://projects.511wi.gov/c/document_library/get_file?uuid=37d818d2-a2bc-4a85-b870-204820e3376a&groupId=15899
Above is a link to pdf of the larger version of Triple's 2nd pic.
Also, new video uploaded by WisDOT showing off the new zoo http://youtu.be/AKryL9HqKfk
Quote from: nwi_navigator_1181 on July 31, 2012, 09:40:13 PM
If I may ask, how's I-94 looking from the WI/IL state line to the Marquette Interchange? My wife and I are planning a trip up there in September, and I just need to know what to be on the lookout for. I look forward to the ride.
The only major slowdown will be around Kenosha where it's down to two lanes in each direction. Could be more of a problem if you're coming through on a Friday.
There are other spots with construction, (7 mile Rd, Drexel Ave, 6th St) but it's not as disruptive as the stretch between WI 50 and WI 158.
You can always check the project's site for any short term closures as your trip draws near.
http://www.plan94.org/ (http://www.plan94.org/)
If you haven't tried out the new tunnel ramps in the Mitchell Interchange yet, they're worth a little side trip. You can hit 'em both much easier on your northbound trip.
So I take it they're doing the expansion in portions versus doing it all at once, like what ISHTA did to the Tri-State Tollway (construction zones in areas where the road is not four lanes in each direction, with stretches up to 30 miles)? I was last in Kenosha in 2008, when the Tri-State reconstruction was in full swing...kinda nightmarish.
As for the Mitchell Interchange tunnels, I will definitely give them a try as I head into the city. Thanks for the tips!
That is correct.
Quote from: nwi_navigator_1181 on August 01, 2012, 10:25:46 PM
So I take it they're doing the expansion in portions versus doing it all at once, like what ISHTA did to the Tri-State Tollway (construction zones in areas where the road is not four lanes in each direction, with stretches up to 30 miles)? I was last in Kenosha in 2008, when the Tri-State reconstruction was in full swing...kinda nightmarish.
As for the Mitchell Interchange tunnels, I will definitely give them a try as I head into the city. Thanks for the tips!
What happened is that until the early 2000s, the money was earmarked for rebuilding the Zoo Interchange in Milwaukee. Then when Jim Doyle took office as Governor in early 2003, for various political reasons, that money was pulled from the Zoo Interchange and redirected towards I-94 from Milwaukee to the Illinois state line. Then, late in Doyle's second term, WisDOT had to begin doing emergency repairs and replacements on several of the Zoo's bridges. Scott Walker then took office as Governor in early 2011 and one of the first things that he did was to pull the unused money from I-94, allowing the under-construction parts to continue until they were completed, redirecting it back to the much more critical Zoo.
Once the Zoo and a couple of other 'big shovel' projects elsewhere in the state are complete, work will resume on I-94.
I agree with that move in that even though the yet to be done parts of I-94 are threadbare and long overdue for full top-to-bottom reconstruction and upgrading to eight lanes, it is still functioning in adequate safety and capacity while the Zoo is in dire condition, with an ongoing failure threat that could well affect the economy of much of the state north of Milwaukee, including here in Appleton.
Mike
Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 31, 2012, 05:46:50 PM
The area of this project will have to address one of Milwaukee's crappiest bottlenecks; the transition from 3 lanes to 2 NB at Silver Spring Dr. This could get interesting because rich suburban NIMBY's in these wealthy north shore suburbs have successfully killed expansions in the past. I think there was/is even a state law that supposedly would prevent expansion through this area.
But it is needed badly. I avoid rush hour(s) up there whenever possible. Not only are there capacity issues, but around Good Hope Road it is the shittiest excuse for a freeway in this region. Everything is severely deficient; sightlines, drainage, bridge clearances, shoulders; it's like your car turned into a Delorean with a flux capacitor and took you back to 1955.
And from the sounds of it, Highway 41 is supposed to become an Auxiliary/Spur to THAT???!!??! I used to live down there, and travel up I-43 frequently enough to know that 41 is far more superior in design and maintenance than I-43, and they want to make 41 into a step lower than that mess. It's just ironic, IMHO. That's all.
Quote from: merrycilantro on August 02, 2012, 09:04:48 AM
And from the sounds of it, Highway 41 is supposed to become an Auxiliary/Spur to THAT???!!??! I used to live down there, and travel up I-43 frequently enough to know that 41 is far more superior in design and maintenance than I-43, and they want to make 41 into a step lower than that mess. It's just ironic, IMHO. That's all.
Well nothing is going to physically change on the Zoo Freeway Corridor with the new interstate designation. Even if we get stuck with a 3di, that's not going to change what US 41/45 looks like through Milwaukee. The Zoo Interchange rebuild is happening independent of the new interstate and will be a serious improvement.
The Zoo Freeway is much better than I-43 in its study area because it's 20 years newer. I-43 was built in the 50's (as US 141); the Zoo Freeway was built in the early 70's.
I thought the Zoo was older than that. Certainly the way it is designed with the narrow left shoulders and tight exit ramps would lead me to think that. Still kind of wished the Stadium Freeway was built the way it was supposed to be between I-894 and Fond du Lac Ave. At least the Parkway south of National to Oklahoma is decently built as an alternate to 94 after Brewers games.
I thought that US 45 and I-894 was built in the mid to late 1960s.
Mike
Yeah I guess I was off on that. I thought I remembered that it wasn't done until after 1970, but I was mistaken. That's what happens when you try and go from memory instead of looking shit up.
I went to the Glendale PIM for the start of the study on I-43 between Silver Spring Dr. and WI 60 this week. It reminded me of a similar one I attended years ago at the onset of the Zoo Interchange study/project. WisDOT was soliciting input on various issues associated with the corridor and I was happy to provide mine.
I pitched the engineers some ideas about Brown Deer Rd and nearby Port Washington Rd interchanges. They seemed eager to want to fix all of the deficiencies in the area of Good Hope Rd. A decision on expansion will depend on the outcome of a traffic forecast for 2040 currently underway, but given the performance of this freeway today, it seems inevitable that the study area will be expanded to 6 lanes. Any construction won't start until 2019 under WisDOT's current timetable.
Most Wisconsin roadgeeks probably know that WisDOT is thinking of adding an interchange to I-43 at Highland Rd so that would be part of this project. A Highland Rd interchange would better serve a hospital and Concordia University not to mention Highland's crossing of the Milwaukee River. It might involve some interesting engineering for NB ramps due to the proximity of a UP rail line.
The only other interesting thing I picked up at this PIM is the likelihood of a change in pedestrian access at one point. Currently, a glorified culvert pipe connects Nicolet High School to an athletic field across the freeway. Already it seems likely that this will be replaced with a pedestrian overpass both to mitigate safety concerns people have about the 'tunnel' with respect to crime and provide a flatter elevation for I-43 approaching the overpasses at Greentree Rd and Good Hope Rd.
Just a couple weeks later and I'm reporting on the next Milwaukee area freeway PIM.
This time, it's I-94 between 25th Street and 70th Street including the Stadium Interchange. Same deal as the last one I went to for I-43; the study is just getting going, and WisDOT is soliciting input from the public. The study area covers the stretch of I-94 between the part rebuilt with the Marquette Interchange and the part that's about to be rebuilt with the Zoo Interchange. This freeway has a LOT of issues with capacity, geometry, integrity of structures, interchange spacing, left exits and r/w constraints.
I'll start with the cemeteries west of Miller Park. Here the freeway slices between 3 different cemeteries and there is no room for additional r/w. Expanding I-94 to 8 lanes would probably get kind of tight through here. But due to the very short distance between the Hawley Rd and Mitchell Blvd exits, one would ideally like to have auxillary or even c/d lanes. Double decking of this segment is being considered. I offered the engineers my vision of accomplishing this by lowering the grade of one carriageway rather than raising one carriageway in order to mollify neighborhood objection to having a towering viaduct through here. This necessitates the change in grade separation at Hawley Rd and Mitchell Blvd that were part of my Stadium Interchange rebuild in "Redesigning Interchanges"
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3618.msg94446;topicseen#msg94446 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3618.msg94446;topicseen#msg94446)
I also presented my volleyball roundabout concept for the Stadium Interchange itself. They thought it was an interesting idea and acknowledged the possibility of "downgrading" this system interchange given the dead end nature of the Stadium Freeway/Miller Park Way. They had ADT data for this interchange on displays, but I'm no engineer and I don't know what the cutoffs are regarding what should be done with an interchange. All ramp movements were around 7 or 8 thousand ADT except for WB->NB and SB->EB which were up around 13,000 ADT.
The close spacing of interchanges in this study area seems to be an area of particular concern for WisDOT. Every engineer I spoke to brought it up. I think they are considering eliminating at least one interchange. The most likely candidate is Mitchell Blvd given its light usage on non-game days and nearness to adjacent interchanges. One engineer seemed to indicate that turning Mitchell Blvd into an "event only" interchange is an option to be considered. To me, that means a half interchange to/from the west only.
When I mentioned to an engineer that I use the WB exit at 25th Street to get to Miller Park on game days, he indicated that was something I should definitely mention in my comments. This leads me to believe WisDOT might consider changing this access. There is a lot of room for improvement (metaphorically, not physically) in this area of St. Paul Ave and 27th St. As it stands though, 25th Street provides great access between Canal Street and I-94 east and therefore, the Marquette Interchange.
Construction on this area is tentatively scheduled to start in 2019; same as I-43 in the northern suburbs. Given recent history, it seems likely that one of these two projects will get bumped up or back due to funding access.
i think that if the stadium interchange were to be downgraded, the movements to and from miller park way should remain freeflow, in order to keep the flow of event traffic flowing smoothly. i proposed something in the redesigning interchanges as well for the whole coridor, focusing around the stadium interchange. i think that having good access, that will not back up onto the I94 mainline is important, as i have seen such backups everytime i have been to a brewer game.
I like the idea of the Mitchell Interchange going away. It's really tight there with Hawley, but provides very different access (darn cemeteries create quite a shield from the park and Hawley).
I'm wishy washy on the Stadium Interchange situation. Part of me wants to downgrade it, part of me wants to upgrade it, and part wants me want a mix of the two (all three of these are removing left-hand merges onto 94. screw that). We already have meters on all the ramps that lead to I94, so it's not 100% free flow (well, during rush hour anyway. off peak times the meters are off).
A full-sized interchange isn't really warranted, Miller Park Way only goes to National Ave and Miller park's parking lots and 41 just takes you to the north side. Besides game days (which are always gonna cause traffic. it's reality. shoving THAT many cars during one time through the possible space we have... yeah) using baseball games as an excuse to build build build is just a waste of money 80% of the time. Sure it will also help out with higher traffic volumes in the future too... yeah I got nothing else to add here.
I don't see a volleyball roundabout happening ever. I'm not saying it's not a good idea or anything, but there isn't a single one in the US that I can think of, and I doubt it's gonna change. I don't even think Wisconsin has any DDIs or SPUIs... let alone a foreign major interchange design ever happening.
I wonder what they're going to do during the research phase of this study. I'd love to see what happens when a number of ramps are closed down. Particularly if the N->W and S->E movements were closed. Those I find to be fairly bad on slowing down 94. Temporarily blocking any left-hand exit/entrances to Gen Mitchell Blvd would also be a part of this experiment.
I also find the 27th-25th st situation to be quite annoying. Exiting from WB 94 onto 25th st sucks either way right now. If you go south, you're stuck at several red lights every time, and if you go north a little and west... again more north-side traffic and stuff. I'd love for all those 4+ intersections to be simplified into something that can much more efficiently move cars to where they really wanna go.
The "27th St" entrance ramp to WB94 is also incredibly too close to the traffic exiting onto 35th st. I always see bad weaving here that slows everyone down (and I commonly find myself to be a part of this weaving). I use quotes around 27th St because it's more like 28.5th street... that power substation is in the darn way. And even if it wasn't in the way, it would create a 5-way intersection between 27th and St Paul... yuck. Again, like I said earlier... something major needs to be figured out there. Just making streets cross each other isn't going to be a solution.
Quote from: colinstu on August 22, 2012, 03:16:30 AM
I like the idea of the Mitchell Interchange going away. It's really tight there with Hawley, but provides very different access (darn cemeteries create quite a shield from the park and Hawley).
If the Mitchell Interchange goes away how can traffic get to Chicago?
oh wait...
You mean Mitchell Blvd :-D
Quote from: Master son on August 22, 2012, 06:21:54 AM
Quote from: colinstu on August 22, 2012, 03:16:30 AM
I like the idea of the Mitchell Interchange going away. It's really tight there with Hawley, but provides very different access (darn cemeteries create quite a shield from the park and Hawley).
If the Mitchell Interchange goes away how can traffic get to Chicago?
oh wait...
You mean Mitchell Blvd :-D
Triple said "Mitchell Blvd into an "event only" interchange".... I just dropped a few words. :P
Quote from: colinstu on August 22, 2012, 03:16:30 AM
...I don't even think Wisconsin has any DDIs or SPUIs... let alone a foreign major interchange design ever happening....
Wisconsin has at least one SPUI, and it's in Eau Claire (http://goo.gl/maps/TkEWI). There are rumors that at least one may be constructed in the Fox Valley in the not too distant future as well.
Quote from: DaBigE on August 22, 2012, 10:01:53 AM
Quote from: colinstu on August 22, 2012, 03:16:30 AM
...I don't even think Wisconsin has any DDIs or SPUIs... let alone a foreign major interchange design ever happening....
Wisconsin has at least one SPUI, and it's in Eau Claire (http://goo.gl/maps/TkEWI). There are rumors that at least one may be constructed in the Fox Valley in the not too distant future as well.
None that I know of are coming up here, although WisDOT was considering using that design at US 41 (I-xx)/9th Ave in Oshkosh and at US 41 (I-xx)/Breezewood-Bell in Neenah before going with the roundabouts in US 41 (I-xx)'s current rebuild.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on August 22, 2012, 10:36:18 AM
Quote from: DaBigE on August 22, 2012, 10:01:53 AM
Quote from: colinstu on August 22, 2012, 03:16:30 AM
...I don't even think Wisconsin has any DDIs or SPUIs... let alone a foreign major interchange design ever happening....
Wisconsin has at least one SPUI, and it's in Eau Claire (http://goo.gl/maps/TkEWI). There are rumors that at least one may be constructed in the Fox Valley in the not too distant future as well.
None that I know of are coming up here, although WisDOT was considering using that design at US 41 (I-xx)/9th Ave in Oshkosh and at US 41 (I-xx)/Breezewood-Bell in Neenah before going with the roundabouts in US 41 (I-xx)'s current rebuild.
Mike
i hadn'd heard about that.
they are going to build a SPUI in madison at Verona Rd.
i think a SPUI at college ave. and Wisconsin ave. in appleton(grand chute) would be really nice. the confined spaces and heavy traffic would warant a SPUI over a diamond with lights in my opinion. johnson St. in Fond du Lac would be another good one.
Quote from: mgk920 on August 22, 2012, 10:36:18 AM
Quote from: DaBigE on August 22, 2012, 10:01:53 AM
Quote from: colinstu on August 22, 2012, 03:16:30 AM
...I don't even think Wisconsin has any DDIs or SPUIs... let alone a foreign major interchange design ever happening....
Wisconsin has at least one SPUI, and it's in Eau Claire (http://goo.gl/maps/TkEWI). There are rumors that at least one may be constructed in the Fox Valley in the not too distant future as well.
None that I know of are coming up here, although WisDOT was considering using that design at US 41 (I-xx)/9th Ave in Oshkosh and at US 41 (I-xx)/Breezewood-Bell in Neenah before going with the roundabouts in US 41 (I-xx)'s current rebuild.
Mike
The one that I had heard of was associated with the 441 rebuild; it was one of the options under consideration for one or couple of the redesigned interchanges (Oneida St was one of them if I recall correctly). The latest (updated in April of 2012) preferred alternatives (http://www.dot.wi.gov/projects/d3/wis441/alternatives.htm) only show roundabouts and revised signals, but I've heard there has been quite a bit of back-and-forth going on regarding what configuration flows best.
Thanks for sharing that Eau Claire spui, good to know!
Quote from: colinstu on August 22, 2012, 03:16:30 AM
I don't see a volleyball roundabout happening ever. I'm not saying it's not a good idea or anything, but there isn't a single one in the US that I can think of, and I doubt it's gonna change. I don't even think Wisconsin has any DDIs or SPUIs... let alone a foreign major interchange design ever happening.
Airline Hwy and Causeway Blvd in New Orleans:
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=29.97410,-90.15557&z=16&t=S (http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=29.97410,-90.15557&z=16&t=S)
I like it because it's a nice compromise between free-flow access and cost. It'll be way cheaper than a full semi-directional stack or other free flow interchange and move traffic more effectively than something like a SPUI or a tight diamond ala the old Hillside Interchange on I-43 at Fondy/McKinley.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 22, 2012, 05:43:14 PM
Airline Hwy and Causeway Blvd in New Orleans:
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=29.97410,-90.15557&z=16&t=S (http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=29.97410,-90.15557&z=16&t=S)
Neato the US does have one!
My Dad was overlooking my laptop screen when I was looking at that. He right away said that having one of those in the snow would be annoying... which I didn't think about. Ice+snow sounds like really low speed and skidding to me. Couple that with people needing to yield? Sounds like a hellacious jam when people are trying to leave the park.
:shrug:
The SPUI in Madison is part of what may be a fading idea to put a fly-under freeway for US 151 to join the Beltline at. WisDOT is starting to shy away from the flyunder, but the SPUI construction will go on as planned - 2014-2016 is the target time frame for construction. I think Eau Claire has the only SPUI in the state.
Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin. GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!
Quote from: Master son on August 22, 2012, 07:49:56 PM
...Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin. GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!
Get ready to feel sicker, as r :spin: undabouts aren't going away anytime soon. :nod:
Quote from: DaBigE on August 22, 2012, 08:01:43 PM
Quote from: Master son on August 22, 2012, 07:49:56 PM
...Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin. GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!
Get ready to feel sicker, as r :spin: undabouts aren't going away anytime soon. :nod:
its not that i have anything against roundabouts at busy ramp terminals, i love them, but in tight diamond situations with little room for expansion were traffic is very heavy (such as at college ave. and wisconsin ave. (grand chute) or johnson st. (fond du lac) you have no room to build roundabouts, and their proximity to eachother would make them backup into eachother, a SPUI or DDI would then be the logical choice over having very congested light cycles. u
Quote from: Master son on August 22, 2012, 07:49:56 PM
The SPUI in Madison is part of what may be a fading idea to put a fly-under freeway for US 151 to join the Beltline at. WisDOT is starting to shy away from the flyunder, but the SPUI construction will go on as planned - 2014-2016 is the target time frame for construction. I think Eau Claire has the only SPUI in the state.
Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin. GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!
The official word is that they're not going to implement the fly-under for the next 20 years or so, until the SPUI interchange becomes overwhelmed. It's kind of a tricky location to do one, and it'll require a considerable amount of land acquisition.
Quote from: Jordanah1 on August 22, 2012, 08:28:50 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on August 22, 2012, 08:01:43 PM
Quote from: Master son on August 22, 2012, 07:49:56 PM
...Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin. GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!
Get ready to feel sicker, as r :spin: undabouts aren't going away anytime soon. :nod:
its not that i have anything against roundabouts at busy ramp terminals, i love them, but in tight diamond situations with little room for expansion were traffic is very heavy (such as at college ave. and wisconsin ave. (grand chute) or johnson st. (fond du lac) you have no room to build roundabouts, and their proximity to eachother would make them backup into eachother, a SPUI or DDI would then be the logical choice over having very congested light cycles. u
Seems to work fine for the Lee Rd interchange on US-23 in Brighton, MI (where there's three roundabouts short-spaced together) - http://goo.gl/maps/x1uuG
Quote from: JREwing78 on August 23, 2012, 08:21:09 AM
Quote from: Master son on August 22, 2012, 07:49:56 PM
The SPUI in Madison is part of what may be a fading idea to put a fly-under freeway for US 151 to join the Beltline at. WisDOT is starting to shy away from the flyunder, but the SPUI construction will go on as planned - 2014-2016 is the target time frame for construction. I think Eau Claire has the only SPUI in the state.
Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin. GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!
The official word is that they're not going to implement the fly-under for the next 20 years or so, until the SPUI interchange becomes overwhelmed. It's kind of a tricky location to do one, and it'll require a considerable amount of land acquisition.
Quote from: Jordanah1 on August 22, 2012, 08:28:50 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on August 22, 2012, 08:01:43 PM
Quote from: Master son on August 22, 2012, 07:49:56 PM
...Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin. GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!
Get ready to feel sicker, as r :spin: undabouts aren't going away anytime soon. :nod:
its not that i have anything against roundabouts at busy ramp terminals, i love them, but in tight diamond situations with little room for expansion were traffic is very heavy (such as at college ave. and wisconsin ave. (grand chute) or johnson st. (fond du lac) you have no room to build roundabouts, and their proximity to eachother would make them backup into eachother, a SPUI or DDI would then be the logical choice over having very congested light cycles. u
Seems to work fine for the Lee Rd interchange on US-23 in Brighton, MI (where there's three roundabouts short-spaced together) - http://goo.gl/maps/x1uuG
there doesnt seem to be tremendous amounts of traffic there. im talking about interchanges handling 20,000-30,000 through vehicles a day, and 7,000-13,000 vehicles a day on most of the ramps. i would never build roundabouts that close to eachother, thats too close unless traffic is low enough.
Quote from: JREwing78 on August 23, 2012, 08:21:09 AM
Quote from: Master son on August 22, 2012, 07:49:56 PM
The SPUI in Madison is part of what may be a fading idea to put a fly-under freeway for US 151 to join the Beltline at. WisDOT is starting to shy away from the flyunder, but the SPUI construction will go on as planned - 2014-2016 is the target time frame for construction. I think Eau Claire has the only SPUI in the state.
Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin. GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!
The official word is that they're not going to implement the fly-under for the next 20 years or so, until the SPUI interchange becomes overwhelmed. It's kind of a tricky location to do one, and it'll require a considerable amount of land acquisition.
I wish that WisDOT would 'bite the bullet' on that one now, rather than later, too.
Quote from: JREwing78 on August 23, 2012, 08:21:09 AM
Quote from: Jordanah1 on August 22, 2012, 08:28:50 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on August 22, 2012, 08:01:43 PM
Quote from: Master son on August 22, 2012, 07:49:56 PM
...Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin. GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!
Get ready to feel sicker, as r :spin: undabouts aren't going away anytime soon. :nod:
its not that i have anything against roundabouts at busy ramp terminals, i love them, but in tight diamond situations with little room for expansion were traffic is very heavy (such as at college ave. and wisconsin ave. (grand chute) or johnson st. (fond du lac) you have no room to build roundabouts, and their proximity to eachother would make them backup into eachother, a SPUI or DDI would then be the logical choice over having very congested light cycles. u
Seems to work fine for the Lee Rd interchange on US-23 in Brighton, MI (where there's three roundabouts short-spaced together) - http://goo.gl/maps/x1uuG
Actually, there is OODLES of room for roundabouts at US 41(I-xx)/WI 125 (College Ave), including at the major intersections to its west. I'm kind of surprised that WisDOT didn't do that when they redid the ramps there, adding lanes, last year.
I have pondered both 'dogbone' roundabouts and a SPUI at US 41(I-xx)/WI 96 (Wisconsin Ave), too, but there really isn't much that can be done there without turning it into a 'big shovel' project. WisDOT would have to dig out and replace the entire 1991 six-lane overpass to redo it as a SPUI and there is no room there for a 'dogbone' without acquiring ROW in that tight location.
When WisDOT was pondering the current six-lane freeway back in the late 1980s (built 1991-1992), they wanted to eliminate that interchange entirely. Had that work been done now (with the pending interstate promotion) rather than back then, AASHTO may well have ordered that interchange closed rather than rebuilt due to 'interstate' standards regarding interchange spacing.
Mike
if i were to redo that area right now (if traffic was suddenly overwelming the area) i think i would add an auxilary lane from the HWY BB on ramp and have it diverge as a C/D lane, with the college ave. and Wisconsin ave. ramps entering/exiting the C/D lanes. the c/d lanes would rejoin the through lanes of US41, and would be an exit only lane at HWY OO/15 with 6 lanes continuing. i assume WISDOT is starting to think about studying expanding US41 on the north side of appleton/fox valley to six lanes. the wisconsin ave. interchange would be a SPUI, and the college ave interchange would be a dogbone roundabout. add a roundabout at college ave.-mall dr./nicolet rd. and at college ave.-casaloma dr. i also think a roundabout at the multilane four way stop at spencer st.- nicolet dr. would be nice.
Quote from: Jordanah1 on August 23, 2012, 01:55:51 PM
if i were to redo that area right now (if traffic was suddenly overwelming the area) i think i would add an auxilary lane from the HWY BB on ramp and have it diverge as a C/D lane, with the college ave. and Wisconsin ave. ramps entering/exiting the C/D lanes. the c/d lanes would rejoin the through lanes of US41, and would be an exit only lane at HWY OO/15 with 6 lanes continuing. i assume WISDOT is starting to think about studying expanding US41 on the north side of appleton/fox valley to six lanes. the wisconsin ave. interchange would be a SPUI, and the college ave interchange would be a dogbone roundabout. add a roundabout at college ave.-mall dr./nicolet rd. and at college ave.-casaloma dr. i also think a roundabout at the multilane four way stop at spencer st.- nicolet dr. would be nice.
Honestly - the DOT should look at expanding 41 to 6 lanes from Appleton to De Pere down the road. There is enough traffic between the two areas to support 6 lanes now. At least do a study on the area on the number of cars from 15/OO to where the Green Bay expansion starts just south of Scheuring Rd.
i was coming back from michigan before the packer pre season game a few weeks ago, and obviously there will be congestion, but i didnt expect to see as much as i saw. near lambeau there was a small backup, and in the de pere area there was a mile or 2 long backup just from the construction slowdown, then there was a car pulled over causing a 4-5mile backup too kakauna, and an accident in the median of US41 near little chute had traffic backed up too HWY OO/15 then there was the typical backups in the neenah and oshkosh construction zones. it was a perfect storm of rush hour, packer game, construction, and accidents/pulled over vehicles to create a nearly 50 mile long parkinglot that is Northbound US41. now obviously this isnt an everyday occurance but rather a 'perfect storm', but it highlights the deficiencies of the 4lane section of US41.
Quote from: Jordanah1 on August 23, 2012, 03:01:38 PM
i was coming back from michigan before the packer pre season game a few weeks ago, and obviously there will be congestion, but i didnt expect to see as much as i saw. near lambeau there was a small backup, and in the de pere area there was a mile or 2 long backup just from the construction slowdown, then there was a car pulled over causing a 4-5mile backup too kakauna, and an accident in the median of US41 near little chute had traffic backed up too HWY OO/15 then there was the typical backups in the neenah and oshkosh construction zones. it was a perfect storm of rush hour, packer game, construction, and accidents/pulled over vehicles to create a nearly 50 mile long parkinglot that is Northbound US41. now obviously this isnt an everyday occurance but rather a 'perfect storm', but it highlights the deficiencies of the 4lane section of US41.
When I go to Packer games (my family has sat in two of the very best seats anywhere in the NFL for 50 seasons now), if I see that Green Bay bound US 41(I-xx) is not flowing freely, I'll not enter the freeway and instead take County 'E' northeast to WI 172, then WI 172 east to the stadium area. It's a backroads 'safety valve' routing that'll blow by a lot of traffic hassles. The new roundabout at WI 54/172/County 'E' makes that even easier.
I'll also not hesitate to bail off of US 41(I-xx) if the Green Bay bound going starts tightening up and again take backroads that are well-known to me.
:nod:
Mike
Quote from: colinstu on August 22, 2012, 06:15:56 PM
My Dad was overlooking my laptop screen when I was looking at that. He right away said that having one of those in the snow would be annoying... which I didn't think about. Ice+snow sounds like really low speed and skidding to me. Couple that with people needing to yield? Sounds like a hellacious jam when people are trying to leave the park.
It'll be no more treacherous than every other road in Wisconsin when it snows.
Brewer games are the reason I added the NB-WB 'fly-under' to my design as post-game traffic is worse than pregame traffic with a few exceptions (opening day, pennant race games, playoff games; of course it doesn't seem likely that we'll have to worry about the latter 2 for the next few years at least. :( ) (Ah, I'm just being pessimistic right now.)
Most Brewer traffic is coming from the west and would not be using the roundabout before games. Then they use the fly-under on their way out. WB-SB might back up a bit before some games, but that's what you get for not using Canal Street to get to the stadium from the east, you dummies!
I usually don't have problems leaving Miller Park after games due to three words: post-game tailgate. Crack a beer (or something else if you're driving), eat that left over brat and shoot the shit until traffic clears up. That's how I've always done it after Packer games, too.
Good news, everyone!
The Mitchell Interchange is done:
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_3718.html_786229440.html (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_3718.html_786229440.html)
Elsewhere in MKE, WisDOT is going to wedge in a fourth lane on WB I-94 coming out of the Marquette Interchange this spring. Earlier this year they restriped the lanes coming together WB so the ramps from 43, 94 and 794 each lose one lane. And while it loosened up traffic coming in from 43 and 94, the loss of that second WB thru lane on 794 has been causing some pretty shitty backups for evening commuters. So they're going to hit CTRL-Z on that.
Now the solution is to basically do what was originally planned for 94 WB during the Marquette rebuild before the western limits were shrunk back. Except now they have to utilize the existing space under the overpasses to extend that 4th lane to 35th St., so goodbye shoulders. It will have to be enough to get the highway to its major ~2019 rebuild.
Once complete, WB 94 will function the way it should have for the last 7 years. (Well, sort of; those crummy sightlines under 25th St will still be there and I'm pretty sure the pre-scaled-back Marquette rebuild would've fixed that.)
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 08, 2012, 01:59:00 PMElsewhere in MKE, WisDOT is going to wedge in a fourth lane on WB I-94 coming out of the Marquette Interchange this spring. Earlier this year they restriped the lanes coming together WB so the ramps from 43, 94 and 794 each lose one lane. And while it loosened up traffic coming in from 43 and 94, the loss of that second WB thru lane on 794 has been causing some pretty shitty backups for evening commuters. So they're going to hit CTRL-Z on that.
Now the solution is to basically do what was originally planned for 94 WB during the Marquette rebuild before the western limits were shrunk back. Except now they have to utilize the existing space under the overpasses to extend that 4th lane to 35th St., so goodbye shoulders. It will have to be enough to get the highway to its major ~2019 rebuild.
Hey that re-striping worked out well for me! (coming from I-43... couldn't stand that bolus of west-bound 794/city traffic that screwed over 94 and 43. Many a day I found me and others using the shoulder to get around it and exit onto 25th st).
But having 4-lanes through here is perfect enough for now. I wonder if they will remove the bend they have through this section and make the 25th St exit straighter and closer to the retaining wall too (like they originally planned on). Because if they're going to do this through 35th St... they're really gonna need to redo everything shoulder-wise past 25th st... there's like a 6' shoulder and none in other parts.
Where did WisDOT say they were doing this (or planning on it)?
EDIT: Also. Anyone notice some random re-striping they've been doing? I-43 looks like it was diamond grinded in spots (like the curve) and striped again. The lines approaching the Marquette Interchange from the west were also very faint.. they've been painted again and much more visible.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_3714.html_786229440.html (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_3714.html_786229440.html)
There was also an article in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal last week.
The new 794 lane configuration never gave me any problems due to my travel patterns.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 08, 2012, 04:33:40 PM
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_3714.html_786229440.html (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_3714.html_786229440.html)
There was also an article in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal last week.
The new 794 lane configuration never gave me any problems due to my travel patterns.
Hmm only 3 months for this to be constructed! Will be interesting to see developments.
Alternatives are now on the web for I-94 in and around the Stadium Interchange.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/94stadiumint/public.htm (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/94stadiumint/public.htm)
Lots of options for double decking through the cemeteries west of Miller Park.
Someone on the team for this project must be lobbying pretty hard to eliminate the interchange at 35th Street, since that shows up a whole bunch.
Some of the alternatives around 27th Street call for shifting the mainline of I-94 to the south quite a bit.
I'm dubious that the Stadium Interchange itself will remain a full system interchange. There isn't really the traffic to justify the expense of some of those stack alternatives. Although there is a fairly tight and reasonable one inset on the "spot improvements" pdf. That's about as high capacity as I would even consider.
So my picks are:
Volleyball SPUI for the Stadium Interchange
Elevated EB lanes double deck option thru the cemetery (4 EB lanes, 2 EB c/d lanes on top; 4 WB lanes, 2 WB c/d lanes underneath)
the c/d lanes option between Hawley and 68th
the braided ramps option for 35th & 27th and the version that keeps St. Paul Ave.
Although I could probably be talked into something that eliminates 35th St.
I drive through the Stadium Interchange every day...and while there isn't a ton of traffic off-peak, there is a whole lot of it during peak hours. It's not unusual to see traffic slow just south of 94 going into the National Ave intersection due to backups. There's also often 10+ cars in queue in each lane at the ramp meters in the evening. In short, I'd be against anything that isn't fairly free-flowing at that intersection.
I think the presence of the Modified Echelon Interchange alternative is proof the Wisconsin DOT has been smoking stuff lately. They might as well go with a cloverleaf if they want weaving. At least the cloverleaf would have the ramps on the right side of the road.
I use the 35th st interchange nearly every day and so do lots of other people, I do not want to see it go away! Me being selfish or not, it's one of the primary connections between I-94 & northside+southside. (The other connections being 16th St, 27th St, and Miller Park Way (which mostly services that fringe West Allis Area and the northside and could be downgraded to a lesser priority interchange).
* For 35th & 27th st, I like the "Collector-Distributor (CD) Roads" solution the most. It removes that terrible curve I-94 currently has and handles those two exits PERFECTLY! Couldn't wish for any better.
The "Braided Ramps" solution would be my next pick. Again, addresses that I-94 curve a little and still remains full (and decently designed) access to those two streets.
The "split diamond" fix looks bad already. Split diamonds work with two cross roads, not FOUR of them! And lastly the "no 35th st" exit plain old sucks.
* For Hawley Rd & 68-70th St, all of them look acceptable to me. If I had to pic a favorite, it would probably have to be the "6 or 8 lanes mainline with adjacent 2-way arterial" option. Does away with the bulky loop ramps... just looks more pleasing.
* For the height of the double-decker section, I think the "Split the difference" would be the best compromise, with the "All Down" one being preferable. If it has to be "all up" I don't care.
* For the Stadium Interchange, obviously the "Full System - Stacked" one is my fav (except for the fact that they don't retain an exit to Wisconsin Ave), but it's really not needed as US45 is gimped compared to what it should've been. With that in mind, the rest of the ideas look pretty... decent. My next biggest favs are either of the SPUI designs, each of them having their own benefits and drawbacks. The "modified echelon" one doesn't make much sense to me... it looks downright dangerous.
Here's a high-res copy showing the three stitched together.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8491%2F8283197952_7e40c0f55b_c.jpg&hash=057a6760836c922dd36e39dcf9434668217bf431) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/colinstu/8283197952/)
edit: at the very minimum, the spot improvement pdf gets a thumbs up.
Ooh, another offset SPUI!
some of the ideas in there are strikingly similar to something i put in the redesigned interchanges page awhile ago regarding C/D setup and the double-decking. i made my stadium interchange freeflow, but added some loop ramps were i didnt think expensive flyovers were necessary. i think that there is enough peak traffic at the stadium interchange to warrant a freeflow interchange, not to mention event traffic from brewers games, i have been a part of a backup onto I94 everytime i have gone to a brewer game, and backups like those are dangerous.
The biggest problem with game day traffic is Mitchell Blvd and its stubby little left hand ramps that let traffic back up onto the freeway. The left hand ramps are also the biggest problem with normal rush hours at the Stadium; you're getting squeezed by merging traffic from both sides. I would say there's less traffic trying to get on 94 at the Stadium during a typical rush hour than there is trying to get on I-43 at McKinley/Fond du Lac where a tight diamond is adequate most of the time.
So I'd accept some serious downgrading of the Stadium, especially if it loosens the pucker on some bureaucrats' budgetary buttholes. Then dump the savings into MCTS.
I'm personally a fan of the volleyball SPUI for the Stadium Interchange. I realize that with the exception of peak times, the current interchange is vastly larger than what is needed (negating the need for what would admittedly be a pretty cool four-level stack), but I can't get behind downgrading 41 to an arterial. It's currently one of the best ways to quickly get from the south side to the north side during rush hour. The volleyball SPUI would operate much like the current interchange does, since they have the ramps metered anyway, but with the obvious improvement of feeding into the C/D roadway and no horrible left-hand entrances. It looks like it would provide acceptable levels of service for the design year, too, so I'd like to see it move forward.
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on December 21, 2012, 05:12:13 AM
I'm personally a fan of the volleyball SPUI for the Stadium Interchange. I realize that with the exception of peak times, the current interchange is vastly larger than what is needed (negating the need for what would admittedly be a pretty cool four-level stack), but I can't get behind downgrading 41 to an arterial. It's currently one of the best ways to quickly get from the south side to the north side during rush hour. The volleyball SPUI would operate much like the current interchange does, since they have the ramps metered anyway, but with the obvious improvement of feeding into the C/D roadway and no horrible left-hand entrances. It looks like it would provide acceptable levels of service for the design year, too, so I'd like to see it move forward.
with 4 through lanes and C/D lanes, would any of the ramps on this stretch be metered? not living in milwaukee im not all that familiar with when they are in use and when they are not, and i would assume that increased lane capacity would negate the need for metering, for at least the time being. i made all my designs for the area on the assumption that there would be no such metering with the increased capacity.
Quote from: Jordanah1 on January 03, 2013, 05:02:26 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on December 21, 2012, 05:12:13 AM
I'm personally a fan of the volleyball SPUI for the Stadium Interchange. I realize that with the exception of peak times, the current interchange is vastly larger than what is needed (negating the need for what would admittedly be a pretty cool four-level stack), but I can't get behind downgrading 41 to an arterial. It's currently one of the best ways to quickly get from the south side to the north side during rush hour. The volleyball SPUI would operate much like the current interchange does, since they have the ramps metered anyway, but with the obvious improvement of feeding into the C/D roadway and no horrible left-hand entrances. It looks like it would provide acceptable levels of service for the design year, too, so I'd like to see it move forward.
with 4 through lanes and C/D lanes, would any of the ramps on this stretch be metered? not living in milwaukee im not all that familiar with when they are in use and when they are not, and i would assume that increased lane capacity would negate the need for metering, for at least the time being. i made all my designs for the area on the assumption that there would be no such metering with the increased capacity.
It's entirely possible. The new Mitchell Interchange uses C/D roads and the ramps feeding them are still metered. Granted, it's a stretch with fewer access points, but I think it's comparable to how they'd design the east-west stretch. But then again, with all that added capacity, maybe not. What I was initially referring to is the current Stadium Interchange has its free flow ramps metered, so having a stack interchange with the ramps flattened into a signalized intersection would pretty much operate the same as it does today.
And we're off to the races with the Zoo Interchange project:
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_3793.html_786229440.html (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_3793.html_786229440.html)
Now technically the project's been underway for a year, but that was just boring stuff like reconstructing local streets and moving around utilities. The Greenfield Ave interchange is shutting down next week so its bridge can be rebuilt. Now we're talkin'!
Looks like WisDOT will be continuing to use the cream and blue color theme with the new Zoo IC. :thumbsup:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv704%2Fpackerfan386%2Fzoo_zps75c517a2.png&hash=7cfb877901cfb33830cdbdb9fb5734e8f9f67fb9)
click to enlarge
capped from this: http://projects.511wi.gov/c/document_library/get_file?uuid=8e525968-e1c9-44fb-a259-980da662021b&groupId=15899
Awesome... it's a nice theme. (and they've been using it at the Mitchell interchange, etc too)
WisDOT has been using that light blue paint on steel bridge beams for as long as I can remember. Several major bridges dating back to the mid-1970s here in the Appleton area have blue-painted steel, too.
Mike
Quote from: SSOWorld on August 22, 2012, 07:49:56 PM
The SPUI in Madison is part of what may be a fading idea to put a fly-under freeway for US 151 to join the Beltline at. WisDOT is starting to shy away from the flyunder, but the SPUI construction will go on as planned - 2014-2016 is the target time frame for construction. I think Eau Claire has the only SPUI in the state.
Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin. GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!
I haven't seen it mentioned before, but the Teutonia Ave./Silver Spring Dr. interchange in Milwaukee was rebuilt as a SPUI a few years ago. It should be visible on Google maps by now.
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on February 09, 2013, 09:57:17 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on August 22, 2012, 07:49:56 PM
The SPUI in Madison is part of what may be a fading idea to put a fly-under freeway for US 151 to join the Beltline at. WisDOT is starting to shy away from the flyunder, but the SPUI construction will go on as planned - 2014-2016 is the target time frame for construction. I think Eau Claire has the only SPUI in the state.
Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin. GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!
I haven't seen it mentioned before, but the Teutonia Ave./Silver Spring Dr. interchange in Milwaukee was rebuilt as a SPUI a few years ago. It should be visible on Google maps by now.
Man I didn't even realize that was a SPUI!
New pavement and bridge decks this year for I-43/94 between Howard Ave and the Marquette Interchange.
http://projects.511wi.gov/web/i-43-bridges-project (http://projects.511wi.gov/web/i-43-bridges-project)
Same deal as the last two years on I-94 between the Zoo and the Marquette in terms of what they're doing. But this freeway will be getting it in both directions this year. There will be extended lane and service ramp closures throughout the year. So heads up for that.
I find it interesting that one of the redeckings will be the "High Rise Bridge" (I-43/94 over the Menomonee Valley). This bridge was pretty much left as-is during the Marquette rebuild with new bridges built up against it where needed. They probably should've taken advantage of that once-a-generation disruption to upgrade that bridge back then. But they didn't, so here we are.
Got a piece of mail talking about this last year. The page online has been around for awhile too.
They've been randomly paving some more asphalt over the few feet of shoulder that exist throughout this stretch for a few months.
Really wish they re-did the south-bound portion of the Marquette interchange. I43+I94+downtown Wisconsin Ave+I794 all merging together into basically 3 lanes (1 lane being an exit toward 6th St+National ave). That, plus poor geometry of the lines, how things merge, gore points, the incline, etc... what a mess.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 11, 2013, 10:20:34 PM
New pavement and bridge decks this year for I-43/94 between Howard Ave and the Marquette Interchange.
http://projects.511wi.gov/web/i-43-bridges-project (http://projects.511wi.gov/web/i-43-bridges-project)
Same deal as the last two years on I-94 between the Zoo and the Marquette in terms of what they're doing. But this freeway will be getting it in both directions this year. There will be extended lane and service ramp closures throughout the year. So heads up for that.
I find it interesting that one of the redeckings will be the "High Rise Bridge" (I-43/94 over the Menomonee Valley). This bridge was pretty much left as-is during the Marquette rebuild with new bridges built up against it where needed. They probably should've taken advantage of that once-a-generation disruption to upgrade that bridge back then. But they didn't, so here we are.
Checking the link, the bridges will get new/replaced deck overlays. Technically speaking, redecking means stripping the bridge down to its girders and then pouring or placing in a new deck in its place, which is not the case here. Replacing the overlay is a cheaper alternative but has a shorter life as it is still using the older deck underneath it.
WisDot has some maps of alternatives for I-43 between Silver Springs Drive and WI 60 up on their website:
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/43/public.htm (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/43/public.htm)
I see WisDOT has given an official name for the U-ramp design, though it seems it should be called a Double Horseshoe if there are two of the U-ramps present.
Quote from: Revive 755 on February 11, 2013, 11:29:29 PM
WisDot has some maps of alternatives for I-43 between Silver Springs Drive and WI 60 up on their website:
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/43/public.htm (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/43/public.htm)
I see WisDOT has given an official name for the U-ramp design, though it seems it should be called a Double Horseshoe if there are two of the U-ramps present.
Now that's an awesome find... didn't know there's been meetings and ideas drafted up for I-43 being widened and redesigned interchanges. Looks like construction would start around 2019!
For Good Hope Road, I like the idea of a split diamond interchange.
I once suggested on Fictionnal roads, the idea of a interchange on Highland road, does someone at WIDOT checked AARoads? ;)
The Highland Road interchange has been around as a proposal for a while now. It was part of SEWRPC's regional freeways study from over a decade ago.
I love the diverging diamond for Brown Deer Rd.
I'd pick the single point interchange for Good Hope. But the split diamond with Green Tree does have my attention since Good Hope doesn't make it all the way to Lake Dr. It would be okay with me.
They should put 43 below grade between the RR bridge and Green Tree. The elevated options ain't going to fly in those bitchy suburbs anyway. They're probably already upset they'll need right of way.
(Anyone else getting loads of crap from those pdf's?)
I really like the diverging diamond at Brown Deer, and it looks like it addresses all the concerns they have there. Also like the SPUI at Good Hope. It does beg the question why WisDOT completely rebuilt the bridges at Brown Deer and Good Hope two years ago when they were planning to rip them out within a decade. The original structures must have been in really poor shape.
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on February 13, 2013, 01:57:38 AM
I really like the diverging diamond at Brown Deer, and it looks like it addresses all the concerns they have there. Also like the SPUI at Good Hope. It does beg the question why WisDOT completely rebuilt the bridges at Brown Deer and Good Hope two years ago when they were planning to rip them out within a decade. The original structures must have been in really poor shape.
That was likely part of it. The old bridges pre-dated I-43 by many years (the freeway was originally US 141, upgraded Port Washington Rd). As for the DDI, it should be able to make use of the existing new bridges just fine. Last year, GADOT kept the existing bridges when they converted an existing interchange on I-285 in north suburban Atlanta to a DDI.
Mike
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on February 13, 2013, 01:57:38 AM
It does beg the question why WisDOT completely rebuilt the bridges at Brown Deer and Good Hope two years ago when they were planning to rip them out within a decade. The original structures must have been in really poor shape.
I brought up this exact thing at a PIM for those projects a few years ago. I was giving them crap for not just rebuilding Brown Deer as a diamond at the time. But the people I talked to said something about waiting for the study that's going on now before they would consider reconfigurations. Really stupid IMHO; those death ramps are evil. There's no reason they couldn't have done the DDI in '011. At least they left room for more lanes under the new overpass.
At Green Tree & Good Hope, those bridges were clinging to life. They replaced Good Hope and stitched Green Tree together as best they could. Its underside is covered with construction fabric to prevent chunks from falling on the interstate.
It's the kind of project where it would've been nice if WisDOT had an idea of what they were going to do with the corridor a decade or more out and could've build bridges that would accommodate that long term plan. Now in all likelihood, they're going to have to tear out that new Good Hope Rd. overpass after 10 years of operation. Derp!
Triple, I kind of wished that WisDOT would use the same practice that ISTHA uses on all overpasses. Have there be enough room (pier width) for extra lanes on top of the 3 lanes plus shoulders. When they widened 355 a couple years ago, they did not have to redo any of the bridges except for the one at Maple Ave. Something like this: https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=I-355+at+63rd+St&aq=&sll=39.739318,-89.266507&sspn=10.74076,21.972656&vpsrc=0&t=h&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=63rd+St+%26+Interstate+355,+Woodridge,+DuPage,+Illinois&ll=41.771376,-88.045077&spn=0.010178,0.021458&z=16&cbll=41.771552,-88.045257&panoid=jvlGPD-3mcCRC3W0KsWj7w&cbp=12,0,,0,0&ei=diEfUcCRMuXzwQGW_IDgCg&pw=2
I taught of an idea who might be a bit too far-fetched, but I decided to post it anyway. ^^;
How about converting some adjacent streets into service roads along I-43? Jean-Nicolet road could be reconverted as a southbound service road and Port Washington into a northbound service road even if Port Washington road is not close to I-43 in some places. http://goo.gl/maps/pAHWA
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 29, 2012, 07:41:22 PM
On Wednesday, I attended a PIM for the upcoming Hoan Bridge and Lake Interchange redecking.
The maps they had up are here:
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/794hoan/public.htm (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/794hoan/public.htm)
The meeting was held in the SEWRPC building in downtown which lies in the shadow of the Marquette Interchange on St. Paul Ave. Damn that thing looks cool from underneath, too.
Starting next fall, WisDOT will redeck the Hoan Bridge completely. They're taking it down to the steel structure. They'll do southbound first, be done by Summerfest 2014 then do the northbound lanes after festival season.
WisDOT will be employing a zipper lane during construction with two lanes in the direction of commuter travel, one against. That should be pretty cool. They will also construct a temporary ramp on the ground by Lincoln Memorial Drive so traffic can bypass closed bridges in the Lake Interchange; essentially, traffic will exit at Lincoln Memorial and use a temporary ramp to connect to the existing WB entrance ramp. If you think that WB corner on 794 is tight now, it's got nothing on this temporary setup we'll have.
The Lake Interchange and all the ramps east of the river will be resurfaced while the entrance/exit ramps to/from Jackson & Van Buren Streets will be completely replaced with new bridges.
So that's what's happening starting next year, but a little further on the horizon there might be some interesting stuff going on there. I showed the redesign I made in the fictional thread to some engineers, but before I did, there were a couple other people there pitching another good idea on what to do with Lake Interchange. They had a nice rendering of Lincoln Memorial Drive continuing south between the Hoan Bridge ramps and connecting to Harbor Drive. From there, they proposed that a road continue west over the Milwaukee River via an abandoned railroad r/w and tie into Florida Street in the Walker's Point neighborhood. Well I thought that was pretty awesome and worked it into my Lake Interchange concept.
So you don't have to hunt for it in the redesigning interchanges thread, here it is:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi113.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn208%2Ftriplemultiplex%2FInterchanges%2FLakev2.jpg%3Ft%3D1335734648&hash=623c709d541e07683c6554d7fcb629d1556f8e1a)
As for my proposal, the SEWRPC engineers I talked to were reasonably impressed. Apparently they are kicking around some similar ideas regarding having a single WB entrance/EB exit east of the river rather than two. They liked how I moved all the ramps to the right side. I get the impression that's something they might not be doing for Jackson/Van Buren Streets since they are rebuilding them completely as-is next year.
Unless I misunderstood, there seems to be talk from the city of eliminating the ramps between Lincoln Memorial Drive and the Hoan Bridge in their ultimate design. That seems a tad foolish to me as Lincoln Memorial Drive functions very well as an artery for east side neighborhoods.
Regardless, it seems a lot of people are really high on the idea of locating Milwaukee's next great skyscraper at the junction of Lincoln Memorial Drive and Clybourn Avenue. So this Lake Interchange land that would get freed up by a redesign won't sit vacant for years like the Park East land.
"Lakefront Gateway Project" ... whole bunch about this is showing up online... give it a search.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flocaltvwiti.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F03%2Fgateway-3.jpg&hash=7a1ff08ea653bd8217d39108a2e7a2c387ae04c0)
What you think Triple? Little confusing. Not sure why there's 3 medians approaching the Clybourn/Lincoln Memorial intersection. And Clybourn appears to be a 2-way instead of 1-way. Would be AWESOME if they made all of Clybourn a 2 way, would help a ton.
Why most people would use that lower (new) intersection to get onto 794 WB ... I have no idea. Turn onto clybourn and turn left at Jackson.
Quote from: colinstu on March 11, 2013, 03:17:33 PM
Why most people would use that lower (new) intersection to get onto 794 WB ... I have no idea. Turn onto clybourn and turn left at Jackson.
I'm not too sure. My guess is they'll do something with the signal timing on Clybourn to make it more appealing to just get on at Lincoln Memorial. Over all, I'm not sure how much I like this plan in its entirety. It looks like they're cheaping out and not reconfiguring the screwy stretch of 794 between the river and the Hoan. They need to get rid of all those left entrances and exits.
Quote from: colinstu on March 11, 2013, 03:17:33 PM
"Lakefront Gateway Project" ... whole bunch about this is showing up online... give it a search.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flocaltvwiti.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F03%2Fgateway-3.jpg&hash=7a1ff08ea653bd8217d39108a2e7a2c387ae04c0)
What you think Triple? Little confusing. Not sure why there's 3 medians approaching the Clybourn/Lincoln Memorial intersection.
Well the three medians are from surface street continuing south under the bridge flanked by the exit and entrance ramps to/from the south.
Why most people would use that lower (new) intersection to get onto 794 WB ... I have no idea. Turn onto clybourn and turn left at Jackson.
[/quote]
I agree. Properly configured, there doesn't need to be a separate exit/entrance for "the Lakefront" to/from the west. That's why I came up with my design. I didn't expect them to do major reconfiguring, so that proposal is more in line with what I was told at the PIM last year.
The left hand ramps at this location don't bother me as much due to commuting patterns. A large percentage of the traffic gets on and off there. Ideally, I'd like to switch 'em to the right, but I can tolerate them as is, I suppose.
One thing that I noticed over the weekend that annoyed me is that aside from Lincoln Memorial, there is no eastbound/southbound entrance ramp to the Lake Frwy/Parkway if you are coming down say Water St, like I was Saturday. I ended up taking Water south to St Paul east to Van Buren north to Michigan east to Lincoln Memorial south to get on the Hoan Bridge. I thought at one point there was another eastbound/southbound entrance near 2nd St but I could not find it. Anyway, just my obs. They need another eastbound/southbound entrance ramp.
Quote from: hobsini2 on March 11, 2013, 06:58:37 PM
One thing that I noticed over the weekend that annoyed me is that aside from Lincoln Memorial, there is no eastbound/southbound entrance ramp to the Lake Frwy/Parkway if you are coming down say Water St, like I was Saturday. I ended up taking Water south to St Paul east to Van Buren north to Michigan east to Lincoln Memorial south to get on the Hoan Bridge. I thought at one point there was another eastbound/southbound entrance near 2nd St but I could not find it. Anyway, just my obs. They need another eastbound/southbound entrance ramp.
Could've gone straight from Water street -> Michigan -> Lincoln Memorial? If you're south of Michigan already... lol do a U-turn! Cuts out all that south-of-the-freeway stuff.
Quote from: colinstu on March 11, 2013, 07:28:03 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on March 11, 2013, 06:58:37 PM
One thing that I noticed over the weekend that annoyed me is that aside from Lincoln Memorial, there is no eastbound/southbound entrance ramp to the Lake Frwy/Parkway if you are coming down say Water St, like I was Saturday. I ended up taking Water south to St Paul east to Van Buren north to Michigan east to Lincoln Memorial south to get on the Hoan Bridge. I thought at one point there was another eastbound/southbound entrance near 2nd St but I could not find it. Anyway, just my obs. They need another eastbound/southbound entrance ramp.
Could've gone straight from Water street -> Michigan -> Lincoln Memorial? If you're south of Michigan already... lol do a U-turn! Cuts out all that south-of-the-freeway stuff.
I would have taken Michigan had I known there was not an entrance off St Paul.
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on March 11, 2013, 04:19:00 PM
I'm not too sure. My guess is they'll do something with the signal timing on Clybourn to make it more appealing to just get on at Lincoln Memorial.
Given that downtown Milwaukee already has abysmal signal coordination . . .
The author of the Lakefront Gateway Map could have done a better job and differentiated between through lanes and dedicated turn lanes.
The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal did a write up on the Lakefront Gateway today.
http://www.jsonline.com/business/lakefront-road-work-to-open-land-for-development-eo93sv2-196948891.html (http://www.jsonline.com/business/lakefront-road-work-to-open-land-for-development-eo93sv2-196948891.html)
It was even cause for two time gubernatorial rivals Scott Walker and Tom Barrett to be on the same side of something. Amazing.
This 3d view uses that same ramp plan above.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.jsonline.com%2Fimages%2FLAKEFRONT12G.jpg&hash=1cabcf2a165f23052a5528189a9c28d131d23a88)
It should be noted that the proposed building at current ramp terminals is more hypothetical than the two north of Clybourn Ave. Those are concrete plans at this point; especially that 833 Michigan.
Also the square tower for Northwestern Mutual is just a place holder. There are no designs for that new building yet, but it's definitely happening.
Looks pretty good to me.
Update on alternatives for the Stadium interchange study, courtesy of the Milwaukee Business Journal (admittedly not a lot here we didn't already know):
Stadium Interchange proposal calls for 8 lanes, potential double-decker
Sean Ryan
Reporter-
The Business Journal
The Stadium Interchange and a stretch of Interstate 94 would be rebuilt with eight lanes, with a possible double-decker segment near Miller Park, under a plan proposed by the Wisconsin Department of Transportation.
The rest can be found here: http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2013/07/30/stadium-interchange-proposal-calls-for.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2013/07/30/stadium-interchange-proposal-calls-for.html)
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on July 31, 2013, 12:42:37 PM
Update on alternatives for the Stadium interchange study, courtesy of the Milwaukee Business Journal (admittedly not a lot here we didn't already know):
Stadium Interchange proposal calls for 8 lanes, potential double-decker
Sean Ryan
Reporter-
The Business Journal
The Stadium Interchange and a stretch of Interstate 94 would be rebuilt with eight lanes, with a possible double-decker segment near Miller Park, under a plan proposed by the Wisconsin Department of Transportation.
The rest can be found here: http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2013/07/30/stadium-interchange-proposal-calls-for.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2013/07/30/stadium-interchange-proposal-calls-for.html)
That area west of Miller Park is pretty tricky. It's a cemetary owned by the Veterans Administration and it is also a national monument. I-94 is sandwiched in there pretty tight. WISDOT wants to expand the whole thing to 8 lanes, but in order to do it without the double decks, they'd have to make the lanes narrower, eliminate the shoulder and lose the interchange with Hawley Rd. The two decks would give each direction a little breathing room through there.
As long as it relieves congestion and gets rid of all those nasty left lane exits, I'm fine with it.
^^
And as I mentioned elsewhere, there are graves that are very near the freeway there that are legally 'sealed' and thus unable to be moved, this due to an unknown disease that struck down those buried there and the needs for public health and safety at the time of their deaths (late 19th or early 20th century).
Mike
I attended the PIM on 7/31.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/94stadiumint/docs/pim4fullcorridor.pdf
Pretty much boils down double decker vs not.
My comment card wanted the double decker! Rest of it looks sweet. Very happy how this is coming out.
Quote from: colinstu on August 12, 2013, 08:52:54 PM
I attended the PIM on 7/31.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/94stadiumint/docs/pim4fullcorridor.pdf
Pretty much boils down double decker vs not.
My comment card wanted the double decker! Rest of it looks sweet. Very happy how this is coming out.
They pretty much
have to do the double decker past the cemetaries.
The alternate idea of narrowing the lanes and getting rid of the shoulder to add the fourth lane sounds pretty scary.
Haven't been thru the MKE in a while, but a nighttime drive a couple Fridays ago offered a glimpse of the Zoo Interchange project. Guess I wasn't paying close attention to it online and didn't know they were replacing the Cleveland Avenue overpass until I drove under the newly completed one. Seems wide enough for plenty of additional future lanes.
I only saw the south and west legs at that time. I should get a better look at the whole project come Christmas time.
Quote from: FightingIrish on August 13, 2013, 11:11:19 PM
Quote from: colinstu on August 12, 2013, 08:52:54 PM
I attended the PIM on 7/31.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/94stadiumint/docs/pim4fullcorridor.pdf
Pretty much boils down double decker vs not.
My comment card wanted the double decker! Rest of it looks sweet. Very happy how this is coming out.
They pretty much have to do the double decker past the cemetaries.
The alternate idea of narrowing the lanes and getting rid of the shoulder to add the fourth lane sounds pretty scary.
I'm curious what costs would be saved by keeping the double-decker option, but losing the Hawley Rd access. It's a pretty short-spaced interchange (~ 1/2 mile between the 68th/70th exit and US-41/Hwy 341 exit), not to mention being right up against the cemetery. O'Connor and Kearney can be extended down to Hawley, with a U-turn at 68th to allow exiting WBD I-94 traffic to reach Hawley Rd.
Quote from: JREwing78 on December 01, 2013, 10:35:14 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on August 13, 2013, 11:11:19 PM
Quote from: colinstu on August 12, 2013, 08:52:54 PM
I attended the PIM on 7/31.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/94stadiumint/docs/pim4fullcorridor.pdf
Pretty much boils down double decker vs not.
My comment card wanted the double decker! Rest of it looks sweet. Very happy how this is coming out.
They pretty much have to do the double decker past the cemetaries.
The alternate idea of narrowing the lanes and getting rid of the shoulder to add the fourth lane sounds pretty scary.
I'm curious what costs would be saved by keeping the double-decker option, but losing the Hawley Rd access. It's a pretty short-spaced interchange (~ 1/2 mile between the 68th/70th exit and US-41/Hwy 341 exit), not to mention being right up against the cemetery. O'Connor and Kearney can be extended down to Hawley, with a U-turn at 68th to allow exiting WBD I-94 traffic to reach Hawley Rd.
Locals would probably be very vocal against closing the Hawley access. Hawley is a major commuter route and a lack of direct access there would probably create a bunch of problems. I'm intrigued by the idea of extending the access roads and adding a Texas u-turn, but I'd like to see it modeled before I'd personally endorse it.
Number of overhead signs (and their gantries) have been replaced on the freeway part of WI-145. Some (all?) parts of it that were closed for repaving are also back open.
This http://goo.gl/maps/DPxJ4 gantry and signs have also been replaced.
Quote from: colinstu on December 02, 2013, 04:26:04 PM
Number of overhead signs (and their gantries) have been replaced on the freeway part of WI-145. Some (all?) parts of it that were closed for repaving are also back open.
This http://goo.gl/maps/DPxJ4 gantry and signs have also been replaced.
That's not WI 145, that's I-43. Did you link the wrong image?
Quote from: tchafe1978 on December 02, 2013, 10:11:38 PM
Quote from: colinstu on December 02, 2013, 04:26:04 PM
Number of overhead signs (and their gantries) have been replaced on the freeway part of WI-145. Some (all?) parts of it that were closed for repaving are also back open.
This http://goo.gl/maps/DPxJ4 gantry and signs have also been replaced.
That's not WI 145, that's I-43. Did you link the wrong image?
I know it's not. Hence the "also" in that sentence... meaning "in addition to" ... related in the sign changing part but not that it's the same road.
Sorry, I misunderstood what you wrote.
Replacement of EB I-794 has begun.
Traffic is using the WB lanes while Hoan Bridge is redecked and the elevated bridges east of the Milwaukee River are replaced.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fprojects.511wi.gov%2Fimage%2Fimage_gallery%3Fuuid%3D22735090-8037-41bd-8cfe-e35a9715aca9%26amp%3BgroupId%3D50039%26amp%3Bt%3D1378934626180&hash=e25812f824f5a4c8bf53e4f716ce5e0f818e9922)
The temporary configuration includes a zipper lane over the Hoan Bridge that will give two lanes to the appropriate direction during morning and evening rush hours.
I believe this is the first use of such a mechanism in the state of Wisconsin.
All ramps are being replaced as-is in this rebuild; left hand ramps and all. But I've grumbled about that already.
I've driven through that area and want to get some footage. Very neat temp setup. They've created some new signs too, as well as modified some old ones (green out + demounting some shields/arrows/text).
I just hope that WisDOT will be using "Lincoln Memorial Dr" instead of "Lakefront" on the BGSes for that interchange.
:poke:
Mike
New renderings for the redesigned Lakefront Interchange: http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/blog/2014/01/lakefront-gateway-redesign-draws.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/blog/2014/01/lakefront-gateway-redesign-draws.html)
Work is supposed to begin after work on the Hoan is finished.
thanks for sharing! The changes look great.
I agree, very interesting. Too bad they weren't able to broaden the EB to SB I-794 turn, though.
Mike
Set of photos I took of some of the I-794 work.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/colinstu/sets/72157641087518385/
Camera died halfway through :/ was going to show the 794 West signs/situation too / lake interchange + some zoo-related pics but yeah... maybe another week.
Nice pictures! Has the speed limit on the Parkway been increased? Last I knew it was 40 and has been since it opened, but I see 2 SL-50 signs in one of your pics. It's after the pictures the with "Oklahoma Ave. 3/4 mile" signs.
Quote from: colinstu on February 16, 2014, 08:39:44 PM
Set of photos I took of some of the I-794 work.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/colinstu/sets/72157641087518385/
Camera died halfway through :/ was going to show the 794 West signs/situation too / lake interchange + some zoo-related pics but yeah... maybe another week.
I'm pretty sure it was 45 for awhile, and yes, ever since the intersection with Oklahoma has been reconfigured to be a seagull intersection (and some of the lanes/shoulders moved around) it's been 50. It's great! Used to be a terrible speed trap, much more manageable now. It's also been extended further south than it was years ago too. Some of the roads around the airport also have been updated around that same time.
Draft EIS is up for the I-43 rebuild and expansion from Silver Spring Drive to WI 60.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/43/environ.htm (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/43/environ.htm)
The good stuff is in appendix A: Maps of the preferred alternative, including some options for Brown Deer and County Line Roads they won't use.
ftp://ftp.dot.wi.gov/dtsd/projects/se/43/eisappendixa.pdf (http://ftp://ftp.dot.wi.gov/dtsd/projects/se/43/eisappendixa.pdf)
Looks like the DDI won out at Brown Deer Rd. It'll be a race to see whether this one or a couple proposed in Madison come to fruition first.
County Line Road is going to become more of an interchange for Port Washington Road.
The most important element is the expansion to 6 lanes; something this freeway has needed for decades.
PIM's for the draft EIS will go down the last week of April.
Looking great. Will be a blast to drive on this when it's complete! Hopefully they go with the DDI and not the diamond.
I wonder if and when they'll be looking at Silver Spring to North Ave.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 08, 2014, 11:58:01 PM
Looks like the DDI won out at Brown Deer Rd. It'll be a race to see whether this one or a couple proposed in Madison come to fruition first.
County Line Road is going to become more of an interchange for Port Washington Road.
There's also at least one in the Appleton area in the works as well...as part of the 441 expansion.
Also with the I-39/90 at the WI 11 West (Avalon Road) interchange.
Death Diamonds :-o
Quote from: DaBigE on April 09, 2014, 09:03:46 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 08, 2014, 11:58:01 PM
Looks like the DDI won out at Brown Deer Rd. It'll be a race to see whether this one or a couple proposed in Madison come to fruition first.
County Line Road is going to become more of an interchange for Port Washington Road.
There's also at least one in the Appleton area in the works as well...as part of the 441 expansion.
The latest that I have heard is that it would be at US 10 east/Oneida St in Appleton (on the Calumet-Winnebago County line). WisDOT is most seriously looking at roundabouts at two of the others (Racine St and WI 47) in Winnebago County.
Mike
Having seen enough big-ticket system interchange reconstructions in recent years, I find it interesting the similarities they share. Especially the way they work their way into the core of the interchange from all directions. You need the space to move traffic around the spots you need to work on, so that means tackling those nearby overpasses and service interchanges first.
I get a kick out of some of the temporary configurations that need to be utilized. When I came through the Zoo Interchange last weekend, the NB->WB movement was shunted over into what had been the left shoulder of EB 94 so crews could work on the new railroad overpass.
Or the way the new Greenfield Ave overpass has its support columns in what was once the middle of the NB carriageway.
The Marquette rebuild had one ramp where a single tub girder and its requisite support columns sat alone like that for over a year. It was necessary to put that one section in earlier than the rest of the ramp because later on, it would be too difficult to lift the girders into place.
It's also marvelous how little additional right-of-way has been needed for some of these projects. Mostly, it seems to be an artifact of not wanting to put in expensive retaining walls for depressed and elevated segments, so they just snagged enough r/w to use earthen slopes. But generations later, it's extremely useful in improving interchanges and expanding capacity.
Call me late to breakfast, but have they decided yet on whether or not to double deck I-94?
Quote from: merrycilantro on July 02, 2014, 10:59:40 AM
Call me late to breakfast, but have they decided yet on whether or not to double deck I-94?
Nothing has been decided for sure. The draft EIS is scheduled to come out later this year and will include selection of a preferred alternative.
anyone else hear about this? 54-hour long full closure of I-94 east and west around the zoo? http://www.wisn.com/news/full-freeway-closure-of-i94-scheduled-for-july-1821/26866282#!bdqN9M
Fun times!
Also... Google has FINALLY updated milwaukee & vicinity aerial maps!
Google maps seems to fade between the few year old ones and new ones from 4/4/2014 depending where you are/how zoomed you're in, while Google Earth will currently show you just the new ones. Having a blast looking around at everything right now... might be easier now to actually get things on Google Map Maker now!
A quick note about some land that was opened up by the Marquette Interchange reconstruction.
Marquette University just bought it for future expansion of their campus (along with the blocks east and west of the vacant one.)
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/277739561.html (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/277739561.html)
This block was once occupied by a pigtail on ramp from Clyborn Ave to WB I-94
Located here:
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=43.03670,-87.92067&z=18&t=S (http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=43.03670,-87.92067&z=18&t=S)
Used to look like this:
http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials.php?scale=2000&lon=-87.906837463379&lat=43.041809082031&year=2005 (http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials.php?scale=2000&lon=-87.906837463379&lat=43.041809082031&year=2005)
The block was used as a staging area for the Marquette rebuild and has sat empty since the project wrapped. This is good news for MKE, since I don't think it will take long for Marquette University to start building stuff there and rejuvenate this little corner of downtown.
Anyone have any insight as to why WisDOT halted plans for an I-94 interchange at Calhoun Rd.? It came up in a discussion on another forum and I have no idea what happened to it. I remember the freeway being rebuilt over Calhoun a few years ago, but no ramps were ever installed. If I had to guess, perhaps it had something to do with the local match?
There were plans for an interchange there? 94 was built over Calhoun decades ago... sure there was a repaving project not that long ago but an interchange was never apart of it.
After some googling I guess there was some talk of it (and plans being drawn) but it sounded like some locals didn't want it. I believe its proximity to Moorland Blvd 1 mile west also isn't helping. If there truly was a traffic problem here, they'd build it. But with WisDOT's upgrades to Greenfield & Bluemound roads which are parallel to 94, they think those are more than capable of getting drivers to Calhoun. (I believe so too).
I'm sure there will be an interchange built there eventually... but it's going to be well over 10 yrs away.
I'd love to see them change up WI-16 with I-94... make it a full T interchange or something (and do something interesting with Hwy T / Grandview Rd)
I grew up in Brookfield not far from where I-94 goes over Calhoun Rd. There was talk for years about building an interchange at Calhoun Rd., or even a split diamond between Brookfield Rd. and Calhoun Rd. Part of the argument for it was that it would help serve the large corporate park just east of Brookfield Rd. north of I-94 and south of Bluemound Rd. But local residents were against it as it would bring too much more traffic onto local streets. I would have been against it too. the nearby interchanges at US 18/Barker Rd and Moorland Rd. are enough. The I-94 bridges over Calhoun Rd were rebuilt a few years ago when Calhoun Rd. was widened through the area. I don't know that there were ever official plans for an interchange, however.
I remember Calhoun Rd being mentioned in SEWRPC's regional freeway study some 15 years ago. Nothing more than they recommended looking at it as a possibility.
It probably will never happen because it's not really needed. Plus there would be impacts to parks and wetlands.
WisDOT replaced the bridges a few years ago so Calhoun Rd could be expanded to four lanes between Blue Mound and Greenfield.
I would speculate there is no service interchange between Moorland and Barker because back in the day, that would've been the area for the system interchange with the proposed Belt Freeway.
You're probably right about that being the area (between Brookfield Rd and Calhoun Rd) for the proposed interchange with the Belt Freeway. Growing up we still had farm fields in our back yard until I was in high school. It was one of the last prime undeveloped areas in Brookfield, and I remember my mom telling me once that there was once a freeway planned to go through there. So instead of having cornfields and an old farmstead to play in as a kid, I could have had a freeway in our back yard.
DEIS is out. Got mail about the PIM too (december).
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/94stadiumint/docs/I-94_East-West_Corridor_DEIS_November_2014.pdf
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/94stadiumint/environ.htm
http://www.jsonline.com/news/traffic/transportation-panel-adds-2-major-road-projects-totalling-670-million-b99400811z1-284402741.html
JSonline article about some new projects (that need to be approved!) and how some other projects were scrapped @ the end of article.
At least someone is thinking about widening I-43 between Silver Spring and WI-60. The Milwaukee County section could surely use widening, but does the Ozaukee County section merit it? At least it finally got repaved over the summer.
That's already been talked about for awhile. Check out http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/43/public.htm for all the plans (new interchange design, widening, etc). Can't wait for that to move forward.
Yeah between Silver Spring and North Ave definitely needs a rework too (at least 4 lanes... or 3 + 2 CD lanes each way or something). South of Marquette to Howard Ave also needs a similar upgrade. But those will probably not happen until much after 2020 if I had to guess...
Quote from: jhuntin1 on December 02, 2014, 09:09:15 PM
At least someone is thinking about widening I-43 between Silver Spring and WI-60. The Milwaukee County section could surely use widening, but does the Ozaukee County section merit it? At least it finally got repaved over the summer.
Efforts to widen I-43 in northern Milwaukee County have long been stymied by north shore NIMBYs, who apparently preferred bottlenecks, traffic jams and accidents to an actual free-flowing busy highway.
And the lane expansion to Grafton makes sense. Ozaukee County has been growing rapidly, and there has been very heavy retail development around TH60 over the past few years.
I-43 through the rich north shore suburbs has always been a terrible facility. Poor sightlines, short ramps, no left shoulder, it floods easily under Greentree and Good Hope. The transition from 3 lanes to 2 NB is a daily bottleneck. WisDOT has a study going, as colinstu pointed out that's been active for a few years now. My own observations have been that Grafton would be a good place to end/start the 6-lane facility. The JS mentions traffic counts not keeping pace, but that freeway needs to be improved to handle what it already gets.
South of this project, some auxiliary lanes between exits would help things a bit as an interim improvement. This would require widening some overpasses as there is not enough room between existing support columns.
I was not aware of any formal study about a bypass around Beloit. I assume that would've been around the south side into IL since it talks about interstate cooperation and junk.
The Hoan Bridge project moves into phase 2 this weekend. Changes include:
- All traffic will be moved to the just-completed I-794 E sections of road.
- The Milwaukee St ramp from I-794 W, which was used as an entrance ramp to head to the south, will close. However, the Broadway Ave ramp will reopen and be used to head south over the Hoan.
- The Jackson/Van Buren exit to go into downtown will close. They had been using the on-ramp to the WB roadway as an exit ramp going east. This will "flip" now, as what would be the exit ramp going EB will be used as an on-ramp to go west.
- Traffic going through the Lakefront Interchange east to south will use the regular eastbound to southbound road. Traffic going from south to west will now go down what would be the on-ramp from Lincoln Memorial Dr to go south across the Hoan Bridge, then come up what would be the off-ramp from I-794 E to the lakefront.
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel article here: http://www.jsonline.com/news/traffic/dot-warns-of-downtown-ramp-closures-b99406573z1-285339271.html (http://www.jsonline.com/news/traffic/dot-warns-of-downtown-ramp-closures-b99406573z1-285339271.html)
Wisconsin DOT Hoan Bridge Project site: http://projects.511wi.gov/web/hoan-bridge-project (http://projects.511wi.gov/web/hoan-bridge-project)
http://projects.511wi.gov/web/hoan-bridge-project/project-history
nice - Bessert got a nod from WisDOT on the Hoan history
WisDOT has decided against the double decker option for I-94 between the stadium and 70th Street. Read more here:
State rejects double-deck lanes for I-94 east-west (http://m.jsonline.com/news/i-94-expansion-plan-to-be-revealed-by-wisconsin-transportation-officials-b99446305z1-292188271.html)
Personally, I would have put that stretch of Interstate 94 into a tunnel. However, that would have required a full six month closure, and would have jacked up the price. Still, 11 foot lanes with 2 foot shoulders is going to be unpleasant. It may please the neighbors, but it's going to present problems down the road.
This sucks :/ I hope something at that meeting makes them change their minds and pick the correct choice.
I don't think the expense of the double-deck option is worth it. Especially for a bunch of dead bodies.
The whole thing is extremely silly, in my opinion. We'll force dozens of living people to leave their homes and places of work to expand highways, but godforbid we have to move one single worm-eaten corpse. :roll
WisDOT made the correct decision. It's not worth another $100 million or whatever.
Maybe someday people will get over their icky feelings about cemeteries and we'll turn them into useful public spaces in our cities.
Driving home from Milwaukee yesterday and I heard a WisDOT spot on the radio talking about the upcoming Zoo Interchange construction. It said that one of the ramps, I-894 north to I-94 west I think, is going to be closed until the end of 2015. It then said that the ramp from I-94 west to I-894 south is going to be closed until the end of 2017. Did I hear that wrong, or is that ramp really going to be closed for 3 years?
Quote from: jhuntin1 on February 17, 2015, 07:20:24 PM
Driving home from Milwaukee yesterday and I heard a WisDOT spot on the radio talking about the upcoming Zoo Interchange construction. It said that one of the ramps, I-894 north to I-94 west I think, is going to be closed until the end of 2015. It then said that the ramp from I-94 west to I-894 south is going to be closed until the end of 2017. Did I hear that wrong, or is that ramp really going to be closed for 3 years?
You heard it right. 3 years.
The announcement was made a couple weeks ago.
Marquette and Mitchell projects had some pretty big and long closures too. It's going to suck before it gets better, nothing new.
Sure the doubledecker would be expensive, but even if they did chop into the grave sites I still don't think they'd manage to have a full interchange with Hawley, unless they really bit into the land on each side and actually had room for all the C-D lanes like they planned with the double decker. Taking just enough land for 12" lanes and proper shoulders still wouldn't allow for enough room / etc for full Hawley access.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 17, 2015, 06:59:08 PM
I don't think the expense of the double-deck option is worth it. Especially for a bunch of dead bodies.
The whole thing is extremely silly, in my opinion. We'll force dozens of living people to leave their homes and places of work to expand highways, but godforbid we have to move one single worm-eaten corpse. :roll
WisDOT made the correct decision. It's not worth another $100 million or whatever.
Maybe someday people will get over their icky feelings about cemeteries and we'll turn them into useful public spaces in our cities.
I completely agree with you. I don't think that the double deck action was at all worth the money it would've cost. I also live in the area, and Story Hill is one of the nicest neighborhoods in the city of Milwaukee. It really wouldn't be worth potentially ruining that neighborhood just to avoid moving dead people. Those people are long gone and I seriously doubt that they would care about it. The solution that they came up with isn't without its flaws of course, but is a pretty good compromise.
Story Hill is far from nice. It might've been nice a few decades ago but it's cramped, dated, and stagnant. It's no different than Wauwatosa and West Allis besides the housing prices are a little more inflated. The people who live there just don't feel like moving 10+ miles out of town to avoid the fact a growing city needs a growing freeway system.
Them saying 3 lanes in each direction is fine is ridiculous and they obviously know nothing about roads or the fact they don't need to be congested if they're ever allowed to be updated. That area will forever be a bottleneck now between the Marquette and the Zoo once that project is complete.
Just because you don't mind adding 10+ miles to your commute because you think Algore is a hoaxster doesn't mean you're right.
Don't forget the issue of those legally 'sealed' graves in that cemetery, some very close to the freeway, something brought up to me at a WisDOT PIM on I-94 that I was at back in the late 1990s. They were 'sealed' as a public health and safety expedient back in the late 19th or early 20th century because of the deaths being due to an unknown seriously contagious disease.
Mike
Can't disease not live without a host? I don't see how it should be a problem.
Quote from: colinstu on February 18, 2015, 12:58:39 PM
Can't disease not live without a host? I don't see how it should be a problem.
There are cases of diseases (typically virii) remaining viable for centuries after the host has died. For example, people are very careful when exhuming a person who died as a result of the 1918 flu pandemic. That virus may still be viable.
Quote from: colinstu on February 17, 2015, 09:31:59 PM
Story Hill is far from nice. It might've been nice a few decades ago but it's cramped, dated, and stagnant. It's no different than Wauwatosa and West Allis besides the housing prices are a little more inflated. The people who live there just don't feel like moving 10+ miles out of town to avoid the fact a growing city needs a growing freeway system.
Story Hill...not to mention Wauwatosa and West Allis...are just fine. Ripping out good urban neighborhoods to expand a highway, when there are other options are available is short-sighted.
Well, they weren't going to tear down any homes to do the expansion. The neighborhood impacts of the double-deck freeway would be visual and auditory.
It's the 21st Century though. A butt-ugly double-deck freeway is
so 60 years ago.
More generally, I have to wonder how the existing freeway would function had it been built without the left-hand entrances/exits. Three lanes (with aux lanes between exits) might have been manageable.
Quote from: mgk920 on February 18, 2015, 10:52:26 AM
Don't forget the issue of those legally 'sealed' graves in that cemetery, some very close to the freeway, something brought up to me at a WisDOT PIM on I-94 that I was at back in the late 1990s. They were 'sealed' as a public health and safety expedient back in the late 19th or early 20th century because of the deaths being due to an unknown seriously contagious disease.
"Unknown disease" from that time period doesn't exactly worry me since they didn't know squat compared to now.
It was probably just cryptosporidium. ;)
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 17, 2015, 06:09:16 PM
Personally, I would have put that stretch of Interstate 94 into a tunnel. However, that would have required a full six month closure, and would have jacked up the price. Still, 11 foot lanes with 2 foot shoulders is going to be unpleasant. It may please the neighbors, but it's going to present problems down the road.
Mn/DOT striped 11 foot lanes on 94 between 280 and 35W in Minneapolis. This is a pretty significant stretch (3 miles) with shoulders ranging from 1' under bridges to 2' inside and 4' outside shoulders (They vary like the proposed stretch of 94 through the cemeteries). This was done after the bridge collapse in 2007 when 280 and 94 were made the detours for 35W. After the bridge re-opened Mn/DOT under political pressure and public requests sought FHWA approval to maintain the configuration. Eventually the request was granted. As part of the agreement Mn/DOT placed crash pull off areas (wider shoulders) in areas where they would fit (they needed a long enough length between bridges and sign structures). They also added dynamic message signs over each lane so if there was an incident, they could inform drivers of closed lanes ahead.
Mn/DOT has also done 11 foot lanes on 35W northbound between 42nd street and 94 south of downtown Minneapolis with the same narrow shoulders as they have on 94. The same mitigation measures have been implemented along this stretch due to the lack of shoulders.
Both operate better due to the extra lane and their crash rates have not increased due to the lack of a shoulder. People still drive it at 60-65 mph (Both signed at 55mph) as they had before the re-striping when there was only 3 lanes in each direction. Of course that is at times when there is no congestion.
I was in Milwaukee over the weekend and the work on the Zoo Interchange is starting to get impressive. That has to be a huge pain outbound in the evenings with only two lanes. The temporary orange lane striping didn't strike me as particularly useful. Maybe because it was overcast at the time, it didn't 'pop' as much as yellow or white does to my eye.
I figured they would have been able to build the new NB->WB flyover on top of the existing tangle before shutting down the old ramp, but that is not the case. That sucks to have such a long term closure for such a high-volume movement. The official detour takes one out to Moorland Rd via I-43 but I would be making up my own detour if I had to go that way. Off peak, I'd certainly be staying on I-94 through town.
Elsewhere in the city, I saw crews redecking Howard Ave over 43/94. Shame they couldn't replace the whole damn bridge and make space for a SB auxiliary lane between Holt and Howard. Same story a little further north at Greenfield Ave.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 26, 2015, 06:53:40 PM
The temporary orange lane striping did strike me as particularly useful. Maybe because it was overcast at the time, it didn't 'pop' as much as yellow or white does to my eye.
That's the second or third iteration of that orange striping experiment. I've only been through there once when it was first put down and it was ok during the day (partly sunny IIRC), but a HUGE failure at night. The HPS lighting made the shade of orange they used back then look completely yellow.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 26, 2015, 06:53:40 PM
I figured they would have been able to build the new NB->WB flyover on top of the existing tangle before shutting down the old ramp, but that is not the case. That sucks to have such a long term closure for such a high-volume movement. The official detour takes one out to Moorland Rd via I-43 but I would be making up my own detour if I had to go that way. Off peak, I'd certainly be staying on I-94 through town.
Yeah, I live on the southwest side of Milwaukee, and frequently travel west. Unless it's very busy, it has worked pretty well for me to exit at Greenfield Ave and go up to STH 100, and get on 94 westbound there. Takes about five minutes in moderate traffic. Much better than 43 to Moorland.
Quote from: DaBigE on May 26, 2015, 07:34:30 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 26, 2015, 06:53:40 PM
The temporary orange lane striping did strike me as particularly useful. Maybe because it was overcast at the time, it didn't 'pop' as much as yellow or white does to my eye.
That's the second or third iteration of that orange striping experiment. I've only been through there once when it was first put down and it was ok during the day (partly sunny IIRC), but a HUGE failure at night. The HPS lighting made the shade of orange they used back then look completely yellow.
I made a typo that completely changed the meaning of that sentence, I see. I meant to say I
didn't find it useful. :?
Looks like you figured it out from the context.
Although it doesn't start till 2019, I look forward to the reconstruction of Interstate 94 between 70th Street and 16th Street. I don't like that they chose the at-grade alignment through the cemetery since it will have narrow lanes and no shoulders. Otherwise, the upcoming project looks good to me.
I'm looking forward to I-43 being expanded from Silver Spring Dr to Grafton. Traffic frequently backs up at Silver Spring Drive where the freeway goes from 3 lanes to 2.
This thread hasn't been updated in quite a while. The Zoo interchange work is well underway. By the end of this year, the core should look a lot different than it does now. One of the new flyover ramps is complete and open. I'll try to get out over the next few days and take some pictures to post here.
I drive through the zoo every day. I should probably take pics and share them more often. :P
There also seems to be a project between exits 294 and 295, beefing up the middle barrier wall and getting it ready for a VMS it appears.
I've mistaken, actually between 295 and 297.
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on April 27, 2016, 10:53:22 AM
This thread hasn't been updated in quite a while.
Yeah once I moved away from Milwaukee, my frequent contributions to this thread dropped considerably.
I tried to drive through the work zone last weekend, but every NB entrance ramp to the Zoo Freeway south of I-94 is closed so I gave up.
Would have been too inconvenient to backtrack to a place I could get on.
Looks like there are only two lanes approaching the interchange from at least 2 directions right now while crews rebuild the mainline sections.
Here's some recent (kinda crappy) videos I've taken. Best to play these at 2x speed on youtube imo.
Watertown Plank Rd WB to I-41 South
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezdcuID7J0o
I-41 South to I-94 West / HWY 100
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iet4lujawo
HWY 100 to I-94 East thru zoo, exit at Hawley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20AvUkE-uvI
Probably the most interesting (recent as far as developments) vid is the last one. The EB lanes have been nearly completed and traffic moved back off of the completed WB lanes. Full exit to 84th st and entrance from 84th should be completed late June, there will be a single lane closure between 70th-hawley too that starts 6/1 and ends late June (something about median work?).
edit: also in the 2nd video, you can see the building of the new EB exit ramps that will go north and south.
I drove through the Zoo WB today and the size of the new facility is starting to show. While I lived in MKE, the 76th St park and ride was a frequent meeting place prior to Brewer games so to see that section nearly in its near-final configuration (minus the lane positions) is quite impressive. The new sound walls around 68th and 84th have transformed the 'feel' of the freeway by doing their job of hiding the neighborhoods from your view. (Or vise versa, whatever.)
There is clearly a LOT of work to do on the core interchange. And I sympathize with all the eastbound morning commuters. It was backed up all the way to Moorland Road in the middle of a Saturday, so I can only imagine how rough that is on a weekday AM.
I noticed a newer VMS on I-94 WB just past Miller Park displaying multiple colors in the form of a red, white and blue I-894 shield. I have never seen that in Wisconsin before. Or anywhere, for that matter. It did not occur to me to snap a picture until I was a ways down the road. Are multi-colored LED VMS's a thing now? I have only ever seen that slightly orangy-yellow we are all used to.
Last note for I-94 is the extended stretch of construction for bridge resurfacing/replacements between the last Waukesha exit and the county line. I couldn't tell if the replacements west of Oconomowoc at Dousman Rd and Golden Lake Rd/CTH BB will accommodate a future 3 lane carriageway. Too early in the process, plus it's difficult to see going westbound. I imagine they will as that has been standard practice for bridge replacements on I-94 between Waukesha and Madison for decades.
I feel like the time has long since come to extend that third lane out to Oconomowoc. And after this construction season, all the bridges will be able to take it.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 04, 2016, 10:05:51 PM
I drove through the Zoo WB today and the size of the new facility is starting to show. While I lived in MKE, the 76th St park and ride was a frequent meeting place prior to Brewer games so to see that section nearly in its near-final configuration (minus the lane positions) is quite impressive. The new sound walls around 68th and 84th have transformed the 'feel' of the freeway by doing their job of hiding the neighborhoods from your view. (Or vise versa, whatever.)
There is clearly a LOT of work to do on the core interchange. And I sympathize with all the eastbound morning commuters. It was backed up all the way to Moorland Road in the middle of a Saturday, so I can only imagine how rough that is on a weekday AM.
I noticed a newer VMS on I-94 WB just past Miller Park displaying multiple colors in the form of a red, white and blue I-894 shield. I have never seen that in Wisconsin before. Or anywhere, for that matter. It did not occur to me to snap a picture until I was a ways down the road. Are multi-colored LED VMS's a thing now? I have only ever seen that slightly orangy-yellow we are all used to.
Last note for I-94 is the extended stretch of construction for bridge resurfacing/replacements between the last Waukesha exit and the county line. I couldn't tell if the replacements west of Oconomowoc at Dousman Rd and Golden Lake Rd/CTH BB will accommodate a future 3 lane carriageway. Too early in the process, plus it's difficult to see going westbound. I imagine they will as that has been standard practice for bridge replacements on I-94 between Waukesha and Madison for decades.
I feel like the time has long since come to extend that third lane out to Oconomowoc. And after this construction season, all the bridges will be able to take it.
ontario Canada multi-colored LED VMS's. and IL toll way may have some there new ones seems to be able to show more then orangy-yellow ones.
Multi-colored VMS's are scattered about WI (Madison, Appleton, Milwaukee (the spot you pointed out) but they just use the amber unless a colorful shield is needed. New Jersey Turnpike and Garden State Parkway have them as well and boy do they ever use color (green background, proper font, etc)
http://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/se/94ew-study/newsletter-summer16.pdf
New newsletter for the 94 E-W (70th-16th st) project.
Wow... some major downgrades mentioned in it... NONE of these have been mentioned or shown in the FEIS previously..
-Hawley road no longer being shifted East ==> shorter distance between 68th and Hawley ramps now (if they even maintain the half interchange alternative they listed in the FEIS earlier)
-No longer reconstructed 27th St
-No longer straightening out the leg of 94 between 25th st and the Marquette interchange, will remain to have that curve to it
-No longer doing braided ramp design between 27th and 35th... only adding an Aux Lane between the two on 94EB (one already exists on WB)
I'm almost hoping they just scrap the project now and give it a look with fresh eyes 5-10 years from now. So many of the improvements they've proposed have been gimped down to the point where it's no longer even worth it IMO. Part of me really wants them to continue as it would be better than what's there now... the other part knows that once they do this construction, it would only prolong the time we'd have to be stuck with this half-assed design instead of just waiting and getting it done properly later.
Delaying the reconstruction process is not a good option to me. They should design and eventually reconstruct this section ASAP.
I don't see any maps of the design changes on the project website as yet.
This strikes me as odd:
QuoteThe preferred alternative provides freeway access to and from the west at Hawley Road, unlike today's full interchange. Responding to concerns from West Allis and Milwaukee businesses and residents, WisDOT will build a new roadway connection between Hawley Road and 70th Street in West Allis, about a half mile south of I-94. The new connection:
-Responds to stakeholder comments
-Connects Hawley Road and 70th Street
-Mitigates the partial loss of freeway access at the Hawley Road Interchange
-Requires the relocation of WisDOT's sign shop on Hawley Road
Seems like it would be an eastern extension of Washington Street jogging north a little thru some former Allis-Chalmers Factory territory and meeting 60th opposite Roosevelt Elementary School.
I find it odd because Main Street already provides this connection a lot closer to the freeway. Sure it's a residential thru street, but it does go thru.
I think the existing local road system is sufficient to funnel traffic to the 68/70th interchange for those seeking access to/from the east. Seems to have more merit as a local street connecting the former-factory-turned-big-box-retail-center to points northeast independent of any consideration for freeway access.
At least the single greatest problem with this section of freeway is still getting fixed correctly: the left hand ramps at the Stadium Interchange (and Mitchell Blvd.) That is what really squeezes traffic through there more than anything. A six lane freeway would have been tolerable much longer if it had been built without those.
The extension can be found on Page 158 of the FEIS http://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/se/94ew-study/final-eis.pdf
I personally welcome this extension. I live right off of 68th and would hate to have/hear traffic zooming on Main St all day. That new path would also have no stop signs, compared to Main St that has 3 or 4 stops. Also not in a residential area, so safer for pedestrians and local traffic.
Main St. is a somewhat acceptable access street between 76th and 70th, but almost completely useless for that purpose between 70th and Hawley. It is strictly a small, low-speed residential street with stop signs. A through street through the Allis-Chalmers property is actually a pretty good idea, but an extended frontage street along I-94 between 68th and Hawley would be really effective.
A frontage road would affect a lot of homes in that stretch. Wouldn't fly for a second.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 29, 2016, 04:54:35 PM
I don't see any maps of the design changes on the project website as yet.
This strikes me as odd:
QuoteThe preferred alternative provides freeway access to and from the west at Hawley Road, unlike today's full interchange. Responding to concerns from West Allis and Milwaukee businesses and residents, WisDOT will build a new roadway connection between Hawley Road and 70th Street in West Allis, about a half mile south of I-94. The new connection:
-Responds to stakeholder comments
-Connects Hawley Road and 70th Street
-Mitigates the partial loss of freeway access at the Hawley Road Interchange
-Requires the relocation of WisDOT's sign shop on Hawley Road
Seems like it would be an eastern extension of Washington Street jogging north a little thru some former Allis-Chalmers Factory territory and meeting 60th opposite Roosevelt Elementary School.
I find it odd because Main Street already provides this connection a lot closer to the freeway. Sure it's a residential thru street, but it does go thru.
I think the existing local road system is sufficient to funnel traffic to the 68/70th interchange for those seeking access to/from the east. Seems to have more merit as a local street connecting the former-factory-turned-big-box-retail-center to points northeast independent of any consideration for freeway access.
At least the single greatest problem with this section of freeway is still getting fixed correctly: the left hand ramps at the Stadium Interchange (and Mitchell Blvd.) That is what really squeezes traffic through there more than anything. A six lane freeway would have been tolerable much longer if it had been built without those.
The Mitchell Blvd interchange at I-94 is about the worst interchange I have ever seen. It should have been gone many years ago.
Quote from: SSOWorld on June 04, 2016, 10:41:28 PM
Multi-colored VMS's are scattered about WI (Madison, Appleton, Milwaukee (the spot you pointed out) but they just use the amber unless a colorful shield is needed. New Jersey Turnpike and Garden State Parkway have them as well and boy do they ever use color (green background, proper font, etc)
These are also in place on the finished sections of the I-90 Northwest Tollway west of Elgin. They show the travel time as white on a green background.
I'm going to try and shunt the discussion about the north end of the Stadium Freeway to this thread since it fits better than the general Wisconsin thread.
Concept 1:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Furbanmilwaukee.com%2Fwp-content%2Fgallery%2Ftemp%2Fconcept1.png&hash=b3f34ab7ae18f280a4ade3160578d7fb7929f5d3)
Concept 2:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Furbanmilwaukee.com%2Fwp-content%2Fgallery%2Ftemp%2Fconcept2.png&hash=d4d2bd7cf12f7b0fea9868a7dcf4c4ea9efc446a)
Concept 3:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Furbanmilwaukee.com%2Fwp-content%2Fgallery%2Ftemp%2Fconcept3.png&hash=e0c8697f36e21a3b1325d257e59f77a9488f6b17)
Concept 4:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Furbanmilwaukee.com%2Fwp-content%2Fgallery%2Ftemp%2Fconcept4.png&hash=9c271c37cdf345e2f88a4f6597e2f724f69113d4)
Personally, I like the ones that preserve the Lloyd Street overpass.
^^ Do they realize they are using a US 175 shield?
Quote from: Big John on December 12, 2016, 08:19:57 PM
^^ Do they realize they are using a US 175 shield?
WisDOT does that a lot in construction zones so I am not surprised that they got too lazy to change the US 41 shield to a proper Wis 175 one.
Which concept is the most likely to be constructed? If I had to choose, I would pick concept 2. It remains to be seen if any modifications will be made at all.
The north end of the Stadium Freeway is just fine as is. With how broke the Transportation budget is they should be focused on finishing existing projects not starting new ones.
Quote from: dvferyance on December 15, 2016, 12:59:39 PM
The north end of the Stadium Freeway is just fine as is. With how broke the Transportation budget is they should be focused on finishing existing projects not starting new ones.
I'm guessing you didn't actually
read the article...
Quote from: GeekJedi on December 15, 2016, 09:49:27 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on December 15, 2016, 12:59:39 PM
The north end of the Stadium Freeway is just fine as is. With how broke the Transportation budget is they should be focused on finishing existing projects not starting new ones.
I'm guessing you didn't actually read the article...
No but my point is why do we keep starting new projects when we still haven't finished others? I would like to see what we started at least finished first before even thinking about doing anything else.
Quote from: dvferyance on December 16, 2016, 12:12:09 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on December 15, 2016, 09:49:27 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on December 15, 2016, 12:59:39 PM
The north end of the Stadium Freeway is just fine as is. With how broke the Transportation budget is they should be focused on finishing existing projects not starting new ones.
I'm guessing you didn't actually read the article...
No but my point is why do we keep starting new projects when we still haven't finished others? I would like to see what we started at least finished first before even thinking about doing anything else.
because the world shouldn't stand still just because some projects are currently happening?
Do car makers stop designing and engineering new car models once they've released one?
"Hey guys, new model is out now. Let's take a 5 year break and start up then!"
Quote from: dvferyance on December 15, 2016, 12:59:39 PM
The north end of the Stadium Freeway is just fine as is. With how broke the Transportation budget is they should be focused on finishing existing projects not starting new ones.
You're in Wisconsin, not Illinois. You actually have money.
The I-94 project down to Illinois needs to be finished. It's mostly done in Kenosha County and I have seen lots of new development and that brings in new jobs. Racine County could benefit too if it would be finished. It would bring more jobs to the region. How many jobs would be created by making a slight adjustment to the north end of the stadium? Absolutely zero.
Quote from: dvferyance on December 16, 2016, 06:47:24 PM
The I-94 project down to Illinois needs to be finished. It's mostly done in Kenosha County and I have seen lots of new development down there and that brings in new jobs. Racine County could benefit too if it would be finished. It would bring more jobs to the region. How many new jobs would be created by making a slight adjustment to the north end of the stadium? Absolutely zero.
Quote from: dvferyance on December 16, 2016, 12:12:09 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on December 15, 2016, 09:49:27 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on December 15, 2016, 12:59:39 PM
The north end of the Stadium Freeway is just fine as is. With how broke the Transportation budget is they should be focused on finishing existing projects not starting new ones.
I'm guessing you didn't actually read the article...
No but my point is why do we keep starting new projects when we still haven't finished others? I would like to see what we started at least finished first before even thinking about doing anything else.
Then you shouldn't comment.
If you had actually taken the time to read the article, rather than just react, you'd find that the city is trying to find ways to pay for it. But, you know, why bother reading...
Quote from: dvferyance on December 16, 2016, 06:47:24 PM
The I-94 project down to Illinois needs to be finished. It's mostly done in Kenosha County and I have seen lots of new development and that brings in new jobs. Racine County could benefit too if it would be finished. It would bring more jobs to the region. How many jobs would be created by making a slight adjustment to the north end of the stadium? Absolutely zero.
Well that's not true.
Regardless that's not the only reason road projects are done.
Quote from: GeekJedi on December 16, 2016, 08:10:58 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on December 16, 2016, 12:12:09 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on December 15, 2016, 09:49:27 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on December 15, 2016, 12:59:39 PM
The north end of the Stadium Freeway is just fine as is. With how broke the Transportation budget is they should be focused on finishing existing projects not starting new ones.
I'm guessing you didn't actually read the article...
No but my point is why do we keep starting new projects when we still haven't finished others? I would like to see what we started at least finished first before even thinking about doing anything else.
Then you shouldn't comment.
If you had actually taken the time to read the article, rather than just react, you'd find that the city is trying to find ways to pay for it. But, you know, why bother reading...
Can anyone repost a link to this supposed article? Must have gotten lost somewhere in this thread.
FYI, I don't really see the point to totally reconstructing the Stadium North Freeway, especially when the Stadium Interchange with I-94 needs it more. If the city wants to pay for it, perhaps they should spend the money fixing current streets instead, or find better ways of relieving traffic on Lisbon Ave.
Quote from: FightingIrish on December 18, 2016, 10:59:20 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on December 16, 2016, 08:10:58 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on December 16, 2016, 12:12:09 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on December 15, 2016, 09:49:27 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on December 15, 2016, 12:59:39 PM
The north end of the Stadium Freeway is just fine as is. With how broke the Transportation budget is they should be focused on finishing existing projects not starting new ones.
I'm guessing you didn't actually read the article...
No but my point is why do we keep starting new projects when we still haven't finished others? I would like to see what we started at least finished first before even thinking about doing anything else.
Then you shouldn't comment.
If you had actually taken the time to read the article, rather than just react, you'd find that the city is trying to find ways to pay for it. But, you know, why bother reading...
Can anyone repost a link to this supposed article? Must have gotten lost somewhere in this thread.
FYI, I don't really see the point to totally reconstructing the Stadium North Freeway, especially when the Stadium Interchange with I-94 needs it more. If the city wants to pay for it, perhaps they should spend the money fixing current streets instead, or find better ways of relieving traffic on Lisbon Ave.
Triplemultiplex uploaded just the 4 designs to this thread. I posted the article to the Wisconsin thread earlier. It's here
http://urbanmilwaukee.com/2016/12/02/will-dangerous-intersection-finally-be-fixed/
It's just a rebuild of the northern terminus.
There's the I-94 E-W project/study too that tackles the core interchange.
That can be found here http://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/se/94stadiumint/default.aspx
It handles 94 from 70-16th Streets, and not very far north or south of the stadium.
They probably kept the northern terminus out to keep the scope of the project down (to make it look less expensive to not freak out the penny pinchers as much who never want to spend a dime).
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 16, 2016, 08:39:36 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on December 16, 2016, 06:47:24 PM
The I-94 project down to Illinois needs to be finished. It's mostly done in Kenosha County and I have seen lots of new development and that brings in new jobs. Racine County could benefit too if it would be finished. It would bring more jobs to the region. How many jobs would be created by making a slight adjustment to the north end of the stadium? Absolutely zero.
Well that's not true.
Regardless that's not the only reason road projects are done.
Apparently you haven't been down there. There is an enormous Amazon distribution center. The Mars Cheese Castle is expanding. I have seen other new development I am just not sure what it is right now. I don't want to hear any complaining the current projects aren't being finished when new ones keep starting up. It makes perfect sense finish what you have started before starting something else. That really should be very easy to understand. The reality is there is not an unlimited amount of money.
Quote from: dvferyance on December 20, 2016, 01:49:38 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 16, 2016, 08:39:36 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on December 16, 2016, 06:47:24 PM
The I-94 project down to Illinois needs to be finished. It's mostly done in Kenosha County and I have seen lots of new development and that brings in new jobs. Racine County could benefit too if it would be finished. It would bring more jobs to the region. How many jobs would be created by making a slight adjustment to the north end of the stadium? Absolutely zero.
Well that's not true.
Regardless that's not the only reason road projects are done.
Apparently you haven't been down there. There is an enormous Amazon distribution center. The Mars Cheese Castle is expanding. I have seen other new development I am just not sure what it is right now. I don't want to hear any complaining the current projects aren't being finished when new ones keep starting up. It makes perfect sense finish what you have started before starting something else. That really should be very easy to understand. The reality is there is not an unlimited amount of money.
Actually what I said wasn't true was that the slight adjustment wouldn't create any jobs.
And you don't construct projects to their completion before even planning for the next ones. That is inefficient and a waste of money. You plan while other projects are being constructed. If there is too much of a planning backlog, you cut back by either laying off or hiring less planners. (Which may end up happening if construction projects keep getting delayed.)
My experience is that WIDOT is pretty good at allocating its resources given the boundaries in which it operates, including the political boundaries. Some random dude on a message board listening to talk radio may *THINK* he knows better, but he very likely does not.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 20, 2016, 02:08:17 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on December 20, 2016, 01:49:38 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 16, 2016, 08:39:36 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on December 16, 2016, 06:47:24 PM
The I-94 project down to Illinois needs to be finished. It's mostly done in Kenosha County and I have seen lots of new development and that brings in new jobs. Racine County could benefit too if it would be finished. It would bring more jobs to the region. How many jobs would be created by making a slight adjustment to the north end of the stadium? Absolutely zero.
Well that's not true.
Regardless that's not the only reason road projects are done.
Apparently you haven't been down there. There is an enormous Amazon distribution center. The Mars Cheese Castle is expanding. I have seen other new development I am just not sure what it is right now. I don't want to hear any complaining the current projects aren't being finished when new ones keep starting up. It makes perfect sense finish what you have started before starting something else. That really should be very easy to understand. The reality is there is not an unlimited amount of money.
Actually what I said wasn't true was that the slight adjustment wouldn't create any jobs.
And you don't construct projects to their completion before even planning for the next ones. That is inefficient and a waste of money. You plan while other projects are being constructed. If there is too much of a planning backlog, you cut back by either laying off or hiring less planners. (Which may end up happening if construction projects keep getting delayed.)
My experience is that WIDOT is pretty good at allocating its resources given the boundaries in which it operates, including the political boundaries. Some random dude on a message board listening to talk radio may *THINK* he knows better, but he very likely does not.
Isn't it just common sense that your main priority should be finishing projects already underway before starting new ones? That make sense when it comes to anything not just road building. Let's finish the zoo and I-94 and I-39/90 then we can talk about doing something else.
Let's also find sufficient funding for projects before we start them as well.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 22, 2016, 04:26:22 PM
Let's also find sufficient funding for projects before we start them as well.
Well, anything federally funded requires this already.
Quote from: dvferyance on December 22, 2016, 11:32:31 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 20, 2016, 02:08:17 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on December 20, 2016, 01:49:38 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 16, 2016, 08:39:36 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on December 16, 2016, 06:47:24 PM
The I-94 project down to Illinois needs to be finished. It's mostly done in Kenosha County and I have seen lots of new development and that brings in new jobs. Racine County could benefit too if it would be finished. It would bring more jobs to the region. How many jobs would be created by making a slight adjustment to the north end of the stadium? Absolutely zero.
Well that's not true.
Regardless that's not the only reason road projects are done.
Apparently you haven't been down there. There is an enormous Amazon distribution center. The Mars Cheese Castle is expanding. I have seen other new development I am just not sure what it is right now. I don't want to hear any complaining the current projects aren't being finished when new ones keep starting up. It makes perfect sense finish what you have started before starting something else. That really should be very easy to understand. The reality is there is not an unlimited amount of money.
Actually what I said wasn't true was that the slight adjustment wouldn't create any jobs.
And you don't construct projects to their completion before even planning for the next ones. That is inefficient and a waste of money. You plan while other projects are being constructed. If there is too much of a planning backlog, you cut back by either laying off or hiring less planners. (Which may end up happening if construction projects keep getting delayed.)
My experience is that WIDOT is pretty good at allocating its resources given the boundaries in which it operates, including the political boundaries. Some random dude on a message board listening to talk radio may *THINK* he knows better, but he very likely does not.
Isn't it just common sense that your main priority should be finishing projects already underway before starting new ones? That make sense when it comes to anything not just road building. Let's finish the zoo and I-94 and I-39/90 then we can talk about doing something else.
No. It is not common sense for an agency with as much responsibility as WIDOT to not plan for any projects until all the others are completed. That's exactly the point I am making. Your idea is the very opposite of common sense.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 22, 2016, 09:48:00 PM
No. It is not common sense for an agency with as much responsibility as WIDOT to not plan for any projects until all the others are completed. That's exactly the point I am making. Your idea is the very opposite of common sense.
You're exactly right. As long as populations increase, there will always be new road improvement projects to be done. It makes sense to start planning new ones as you're working on constructing previously-planned improvements. And plus, you'll keep the construction companies in business when you have a steady stream of projects for them to work on. :nod:
Quote from: compdude787 on December 22, 2016, 10:43:05 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 22, 2016, 09:48:00 PM
No. It is not common sense for an agency with as much responsibility as WIDOT to not plan for any projects until all the others are completed. That's exactly the point I am making. Your idea is the very opposite of common sense.
You're exactly right. As long as populations increase, there will always be new road improvement projects to be done. It makes sense to start planning new ones as you're working on constructing previously-planned improvements. And plus, you'll keep the construction companies in business when you have a steady stream of projects for them to work on. :nod:
Yeah that's a good reason we need to spend more money on road projects to keep the construction companies in business. Despite the fact the transportation fund is broke and regardless of whether it's needed or not we need to go out there and start spending even more money we don't have.
The money's there. It's just not politically expedient to collect it.
What's ridiculous is that they can't bring themselves to take the short-term political hit to raise the gas tax sufficiently to stay solvent.
Quote from: dvferyance on December 23, 2016, 05:56:56 PM
Yeah that's a good reason we need to spend more money on road projects to keep the construction companies in business.
Way to cherry pick one solitary part of the debate. Again, you're wrong.
Quote from: GeekJedi on December 24, 2016, 03:33:14 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on December 23, 2016, 05:56:56 PM
Yeah that's a good reason we need to spend more money on road projects to keep the construction companies in business.
Way to cherry pick one solitary part of the debate. Again, you're wrong.
Fully agreed - I would be supporting projects that I like just as much as I do now if WisDOT could do the work more cheaply 'in house'. To me, who does the work is immaterial.
Mike
Husband took me flying today.
I took pictures over Milwaukee, check out the work on the Zoo / Downtown, etc.
https://colinstu.smugmug.com/Flying-03-12-2017
Quote from: GeekJedi on December 24, 2016, 03:33:14 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on December 23, 2016, 05:56:56 PM
Yeah that's a good reason we need to spend more money on road projects to keep the construction companies in business.
Way to cherry pick one solitary part of the debate. Again, you're wrong.
Wrong about what? I was making a point that you don't just do a road project just to give construction contractors a job. You have to have a justification that the project is something that is needed and the money is there to pay for it. I don't see how that is so wrong.
Quote from: dvferyance on March 18, 2017, 06:43:00 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on December 24, 2016, 03:33:14 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on December 23, 2016, 05:56:56 PM
Yeah that's a good reason we need to spend more money on road projects to keep the construction companies in business.
Way to cherry pick one solitary part of the debate. Again, you're wrong.
Wrong about what? I was making a point that you don't just do a road project just to give construction contractors a job. You have to have a justification that the project is something that is needed and the money is there to pay for it. I don't see how that is so wrong.
It's not wrong if that was the sole reason, but it wasn't.
He said " It makes sense to start planning new ones as you're working on constructing previously-planned improvements". That was the reason. He added, as an aside, "you'll keep the construction companies in business when you have a steady stream of projects for them to work on."
Your argument is "one project as a time". You picked the one comment that you felt supported your claim and ignored everything else thinking that it proved your point. However, you're wrong in your assertion. The justification he stated was not to keep construction companies employed. The justification is that it makes sense to start planning new projects as you're working on current ones. You read the part you wanted to read and responded to that, but the statements were meant to be taken together.
The comment I made about keeping construction companies in business was simply an aside, and not really the main reason why DOTs should plan out new construction projects as they are working on current ones.
http://urbanmilwaukee.com/2017/04/26/can-city-mend-highway-175s-terminus/
WisDOT would do well to get behind option 4, the one with more boulevard. They've caught a lot of flak over their freeway expansions in Milwaukee, so why not throw the city a bone here? They moved the zoo so they could build this stub freeway. (Okay not entirely true, they wanted a bigger space and stuff, but c'mon; how many other freeways tore down a zoo to be built? Washington Park was once the Central Park of Milwaukee and they slapped an empty, six lane freeway on it.) Plus it'll cost less in the long term with one less bridge to maintain.
Agreed. Option 4 is the way to go.
I worry about how option 4 will create more gridlock and traffic problems around the Lloyd St. intersection. The Lloyd St. bridge is at least more pedestrian-friendly, especially with the parks in the area.
I am in favor of shifting the southbound entrance to the Stadium Freeway a block to the east, and filling in the area between that and 47th St. with greenspace/park. I noticed that the old bank and accompanying parking lot have already been taken out.
Whichever option is picked, I wonder whether this project will be built before, during, or after the Interstate 94 (70th St. to 16th St.) project. I would think it would be built in conjunction with the Interstate 94 project, but I could be wrong.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 03, 2017, 05:29:27 PM
Whichever option is picked, I wonder whether this project will be built before, during, or after the Interstate 94 (70th St. to 16th St.) project. I would think it would be built in conjunction with the Interstate 94 project, but I could be wrong.
Is WisDOT considering downgrading the Stadium Interchange as part of this?
Mike
It's ultimately an upgrade from what it is now.
Yeah it's won't be directional stack like it is now, there will be some lights on the N-S segment, but otherwise the whole thing is a huge upgrade.
http://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/se/94ew-study/final-eis.pdf
page 157.
http://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/se/94ew-study/preferred-alternative-v4.pdf
Given how short the north and south legs of the existing Stadium Interchange, its obvious why the DOT chose the downgrade option. Will the new ramps need one or two lanes to operate sufficiently?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 03, 2017, 05:29:27 PM
Whichever option is picked, I wonder whether this project will be built before, during, or after the Interstate 94 (70th St. to 16th St.) project. I would think it would be built in conjunction with the Interstate 94 project, but I could be wrong.
It's my understanding this is separate from the delayed I-94 project, so I think that means it could happen before, during or after, depending on funding.
Drove through the Zoo Interchange project over the weekend and core of the interchange has really taken shape. Due to slow traffic on the NB->WB ramp I was using, there was ample opportunity to scope it out from the driver's seat. Lots of decks being poured right now.
The Zoo has gone from unimpressive to massive as one approaches it. It finally looks the part of Wisconsin's busiest freeway interchange.
I've meant to discuss this before, but I noticed they are replacing the Elm Grove Road overpass on the west end of the project. All the maps show the project limits to be immediately west of Underwood Parkway, so to see this bridge replaced is curious and also a bit tantalizing. The prospect of a 4th lane in either direction all the way to Goerkes Corner seems that much closer.
I asked the Zoo Interchange twitter account about a 4th/aux lane and they confirmed a proposal for one is in the works. It's apparently a matter of approval or not. I haven't discovered any real documents or plans for it though.
Have any of the 18 ft. shoulders planned for Interstate 94 been constructed yet?
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 11, 2017, 11:38:42 PM
Drove through the Zoo Interchange project over the weekend and core of the interchange has really taken shape. Due to slow traffic on the NB->WB ramp I was using, there was ample opportunity to scope it out from the driver's seat. Lots of decks being poured right now.
The Zoo has gone from unimpressive to massive as one approaches it. It finally looks the part of Wisconsin's busiest freeway interchange.
I've meant to discuss this before, but I noticed they are replacing the Elm Grove Road overpass on the west end of the project. All the maps show the project limits to be immediately west of Underwood Parkway, so to see this bridge replaced is curious and also a bit tantalizing. The prospect of a 4th lane in either direction all the way to Goerkes Corner seems that much closer.
The MJS reported within the last two years that WisDOT was adding a fourth lane in each direction between the Zoo Project and Moorland Road in conjunction with replacing the overpasses at Elm Grove and Sunny Slope Rds. I'll see if I can find the article and add it here.
Just found this http://archive.brookfieldnow.com/news/construction-planned-for-i-94-brookfield-bridges-b99425558z1-288453171.html
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on June 15, 2017, 10:14:14 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 11, 2017, 11:38:42 PM
Drove through the Zoo Interchange project over the weekend and core of the interchange has really taken shape. Due to slow traffic on the NB->WB ramp I was using, there was ample opportunity to scope it out from the driver's seat. Lots of decks being poured right now.
The Zoo has gone from unimpressive to massive as one approaches it. It finally looks the part of Wisconsin's busiest freeway interchange.
I've meant to discuss this before, but I noticed they are replacing the Elm Grove Road overpass on the west end of the project. All the maps show the project limits to be immediately west of Underwood Parkway, so to see this bridge replaced is curious and also a bit tantalizing. The prospect of a 4th lane in either direction all the way to Goerkes Corner seems that much closer.
The MJS reported within the last two years that WisDOT was adding a fourth lane in each direction between the Zoo Project and Moorland Road in conjunction with replacing the overpasses at Elm Grove and Sunny Slope Rds. I'll see if I can find the article and add it here.
I would have liked to see an interchange there but I ma sure there would be way too much local opposition to that.
Quote from: dvferyance on June 15, 2017, 06:58:38 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on June 15, 2017, 10:14:14 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 11, 2017, 11:38:42 PM
Drove through the Zoo Interchange project over the weekend and core of the interchange has really taken shape. Due to slow traffic on the NB->WB ramp I was using, there was ample opportunity to scope it out from the driver's seat. Lots of decks being poured right now.
The Zoo has gone from unimpressive to massive as one approaches it. It finally looks the part of Wisconsin's busiest freeway interchange.
I've meant to discuss this before, but I noticed they are replacing the Elm Grove Road overpass on the west end of the project. All the maps show the project limits to be immediately west of Underwood Parkway, so to see this bridge replaced is curious and also a bit tantalizing. The prospect of a 4th lane in either direction all the way to Goerkes Corner seems that much closer.
The MJS reported within the last two years that WisDOT was adding a fourth lane in each direction between the Zoo Project and Moorland Road in conjunction with replacing the overpasses at Elm Grove and Sunny Slope Rds. I'll see if I can find the article and add it here.
I would have liked to see an interchange there but I ma sure there would be way too much local opposition to that.
Agreed on both counts. An interchange at Sunny Slope would be great. But I'm sure that the NIMBY's would quickly kill it.
What I-94 needs is an interchange between Moorland and Bluemound. At either Calhoun or Brookfield. Not going to happen though.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 15, 2017, 10:21:24 PM
What I-94 needs is an interchange between Moorland and Bluemound. At either Calhoun or Brookfield. Not going to happen though.
That was previously proposed then killed by NIMBYs.
I grew up in Brookfield, about a half mile as the crow flies from I-94. A potential interchange at either Brookfield Rd., Calhoun Rd., or a split interchange between the two has been talked about and debated for at least 30 years. If it hasn't happened by now it probably never will. There was too much opposition from residents in the immediate vicinity (my family included) and the DOT wouldn't agree to build an interchange with so much local opposition. It would have basically destroyed two city parks, although the access would have been convenient to our neighborhood and a nearby corporate park. It also probably would have sped up the widening of Calhoun Rd. by about 20 years.
That's funny. Fierce neighborhood opposition hasn't ever stopped WisDOT from ramming through unpopular expansions in the city. Guess they treat the burbs with kid gloves...
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on June 24, 2017, 01:23:49 PM
That's funny. Fierce neighborhood opposition hasn't ever stopped WisDOT from ramming through unpopular expansions in the city. Guess they treat the burbs with kid gloves...
You obviously have forgotten about all those unbuilt freeways in the Milwaukee area. Or the compromises like Lake Parkway and Lincoln Memorial Drive.
SM-G900P
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 25, 2017, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on June 24, 2017, 01:23:49 PM
That's funny. Fierce neighborhood opposition hasn't ever stopped WisDOT from ramming through unpopular expansions in the city. Guess they treat the burbs with kid gloves...
You obviously have forgotten about all those unbuilt freeways in the Milwaukee area. Or the compromises like Lake Parkway and Lincoln Memorial Drive.
SM-G900P
I haven't obviously forgotten anything. I'm referring to recent history. But as long as we're talking about historically, how about the way that bronzeville and the walnut street neighborhood were completely removed for the I-43 carriage way? And also consider that the lake freeway and most of the other unbuilt segments were supposed to go through affluent areas... Transportation planners have a long history of giving in to the haves while giving short shrift to the have-nots.
iPhone
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on June 25, 2017, 05:12:31 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 25, 2017, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on June 24, 2017, 01:23:49 PM
That's funny. Fierce neighborhood opposition hasn't ever stopped WisDOT from ramming through unpopular expansions in the city. Guess they treat the burbs with kid gloves...
You obviously have forgotten about all those unbuilt freeways in the Milwaukee area. Or the compromises like Lake Parkway and Lincoln Memorial Drive.
SM-G900P
I haven't obviously forgotten anything. I'm referring to recent history. But as long as we're talking about historically, how about the way that bronzeville and the walnut street neighborhood were completely removed for the I-43 carriage way? And also consider that the lake freeway and most of the other unbuilt segments were supposed to go through affluent areas... Transportation planners have a long history of giving in to the haves while giving short shrift to the have-nots.
In this case, there'd be no "ramming down anyone's throat". Any interchanges between WI-100 and Moorland Rd. would not have been considered during the initial build (during the time they were "ramming things" through). That area was nothing but farmland until the early-to-mid 80's. It wasn't until the area got built out that rumblings started for something like a Calhoun Rd. exit started. By then the land was much too valuable and the pressure too great for WisDOT to do anything. The only time WisDOT rams anything through is if they have any support from the local municipality. There is a long string of projects all over the state that are scaled back or not done due to opposition.
Quote from: GeekJedi on June 25, 2017, 09:26:01 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on June 25, 2017, 05:12:31 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 25, 2017, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on June 24, 2017, 01:23:49 PM
That's funny. Fierce neighborhood opposition hasn't ever stopped WisDOT from ramming through unpopular expansions in the city. Guess they treat the burbs with kid gloves...
You obviously have forgotten about all those unbuilt freeways in the Milwaukee area. Or the compromises like Lake Parkway and Lincoln Memorial Drive.
SM-G900P
I haven't obviously forgotten anything. I'm referring to recent history. But as long as we're talking about historically, how about the way that bronzeville and the walnut street neighborhood were completely removed for the I-43 carriage way? And also consider that the lake freeway and most of the other unbuilt segments were supposed to go through affluent areas... Transportation planners have a long history of giving in to the haves while giving short shrift to the have-nots.
In this case, there'd be no "ramming down anyone's throat". Any interchanges between WI-100 and Moorland Rd. would not have been considered during the initial build (during the time they were "ramming things" through). That area was nothing but farmland until the early-to-mid 80's. It wasn't until the area got built out that rumblings started for something like a Calhoun Rd. exit started. By then the land was much too valuable and the pressure too great for WisDOT to do anything. The only time WisDOT rams anything through is if they have any support from the local municipality. There is a long string of projects all over the state that are scaled back or not done due to opposition.
That area was not "nothing but farmland" in the early to mid 1980s. Yeah there was a field here and there but that part of Brookfield was building up in 1960s.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2017, 09:43:03 PM
That area was not "nothing but farmland" in the early to mid 1980s. Yeah there was a field here and there but that part of Brookfield was building up in 1960s.
You're right. Look at ALL that buildup. :rolleyes:
https://www.historicaerials.com/location/43.02792958411912/-88.14099311828613/1980/14 (https://www.historicaerials.com/location/43.02792958411912/-88.14099311828613/1980/14)
Quote from: GeekJedi on June 26, 2017, 10:18:27 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2017, 09:43:03 PM
That area was not "nothing but farmland" in the early to mid 1980s. Yeah there was a field here and there but that part of Brookfield was building up in 1960s.
You're right. Look at ALL that buildup. :rolleyes:
https://www.historicaerials.com/location/43.02792958411912/-88.14099311828613/1980/14 (https://www.historicaerials.com/location/43.02792958411912/-88.14099311828613/1980/14)
Yeah. Doesn't look like "nothing but farmland" to me.
Between the beginning stages of the developments and the parkland it looks like there is no space for an interchange at Calhoun and barely one at Brookfield. Perhaps one in between.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 26, 2017, 10:23:48 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on June 26, 2017, 10:18:27 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2017, 09:43:03 PM
That area was not "nothing but farmland" in the early to mid 1980s. Yeah there was a field here and there but that part of Brookfield was building up in 1960s.
You're right. Look at ALL that buildup. :rolleyes:
https://www.historicaerials.com/location/43.02792958411912/-88.14099311828613/1980/14 (https://www.historicaerials.com/location/43.02792958411912/-88.14099311828613/1980/14)
Yeah. Doesn't look like "nothing but farmland" to me.
Between the beginning stages of the developments and the parkland it looks like there is no space for an interchange at Calhoun and barely one at Brookfield. Perhaps one in between.
For gosh sakes, there was an ACTUAL farm there! You can parse the language however you want ("beginning stages of the developments" does not equal actual development), but there was plenty of room there. There was a single house at Brookfield Rd., and Ruby Farms along with maybe three houses at Calhoun.
My sense is that most of what is now the City of Brookfield (originally part of Brookfield Township, incorporated in 1954) was developed during the classic 1950s/1960s era suburban flight. This was also the time when the I-94 upgrade from the original WI 30 was being planned and built. The Village of Elm Grove came about at that time (originally part of Brookfield Township, incorporated in 1955), too.
The original 'Brookfield' was the tiny unincorporated 'village' settlement area around where Brookfield Rd crosses the now CP (ex Milwaukee Road) mainline.
Mike
Quote from: GeekJedi on June 26, 2017, 10:40:40 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 26, 2017, 10:23:48 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on June 26, 2017, 10:18:27 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2017, 09:43:03 PM
That area was not "nothing but farmland" in the early to mid 1980s. Yeah there was a field here and there but that part of Brookfield was building up in 1960s.
You're right. Look at ALL that buildup. :rolleyes:
https://www.historicaerials.com/location/43.02792958411912/-88.14099311828613/1980/14 (https://www.historicaerials.com/location/43.02792958411912/-88.14099311828613/1980/14)
Yeah. Doesn't look like "nothing but farmland" to me.
Between the beginning stages of the developments and the parkland it looks like there is no space for an interchange at Calhoun and barely one at Brookfield. Perhaps one in between.
For gosh sakes, there was an ACTUAL farm there! You can parse the language however you want ("beginning stages of the developments" does not equal actual development), but there was plenty of room there. There was a single house at Brookfield Rd., and Ruby Farms along with maybe three houses at Calhoun.
I'm not parsing anything. You said "nothing but farmland." You made it sound like it was completely rural or something so that adding interchanges back then would have been no problem. It was part of a suburban incorporated city with plenty of development started.
If you would have said 1960s on your overall point about an interchange at Calhoun, I would have agreed. But by 1980 it was largely too late anyway from a public pressure point of view.
That picture shows that it's pretty rural. For the purposes of this topic, there was no reason at that point, that interchanges couldn't have been done. There was space, and that area hadn't seen much development yet. As for farmland, that entire stretch from Calhoun to Brookfield north of 94 was still farmland at the time. There was a farm or two along Bluemound back then as well.
Quote from: GeekJedi on June 26, 2017, 06:06:13 PM
That picture shows that it’s pretty rural. For the purposes of this topic, there was no reason at that point, that interchanges couldn’t have been done. There was space, and that area hadn’t seen much development yet. As for farmland, that entire stretch from Calhoun to Brookfield north of 94 was still farmland at the time. There was a farm or two along Bluemound back then as well.
Where is this in relation to the never-built Belt Freeway? Perhaps close proximity to the planned I-94/Belt interchange is why none was built at Calhoun Rd.
Mike
I believe the Belt Freeway was supposed to land in between Calhoun and Brookfield Rds with a system interchange. It's one of the reasons why that land was some of the last to be developed in the Bluemound Rd. area of Brookfield. The farm field it would have run through was directly behind my parents house where I grew up. I believe subdivisions finally starting going in in the area south if I-94 and north of Davidson Rd. in the mid 1990s.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2017, 09:43:03 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on June 25, 2017, 09:26:01 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on June 25, 2017, 05:12:31 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 25, 2017, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on June 24, 2017, 01:23:49 PM
That's funny. Fierce neighborhood opposition hasn't ever stopped WisDOT from ramming through unpopular expansions in the city. Guess they treat the burbs with kid gloves...
You obviously have forgotten about all those unbuilt freeways in the Milwaukee area. Or the compromises like Lake Parkway and Lincoln Memorial Drive.
SM-G900P
I haven't obviously forgotten anything. I'm referring to recent history. But as long as we're talking about historically, how about the way that bronzeville and the walnut street neighborhood were completely removed for the I-43 carriage way? And also consider that the lake freeway and most of the other unbuilt segments were supposed to go through affluent areas... Transportation planners have a long history of giving in to the haves while giving short shrift to the have-nots.
In this case, there'd be no "ramming down anyone's throat". Any interchanges between WI-100 and Moorland Rd. would not have been considered during the initial build (during the time they were "ramming things" through). That area was nothing but farmland until the early-to-mid 80's. It wasn't until the area got built out that rumblings started for something like a Calhoun Rd. exit started. By then the land was much too valuable and the pressure too great for WisDOT to do anything. The only time WisDOT rams anything through is if they have any support from the local municipality. There is a long string of projects all over the state that are scaled back or not done due to opposition.
That area was not "nothing but farmland" in the early to mid 1980s. Yeah there was a field here and there but that part of Brookfield was building up in 1960s.
You got that right. My sister and brother in law line in a house along Bluemound just east of Moorland that was built in the 50's. That area was building up long before the 80's Now I do vaguely remember some farmland left west of Calhoun that was just starting to be developed around the late 80's. But Brookfield east of Calhoun was still mostly built up even in the 80's.
Quote from: dvferyance on June 27, 2017, 02:30:51 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2017, 09:43:03 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on June 25, 2017, 09:26:01 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on June 25, 2017, 05:12:31 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 25, 2017, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on June 24, 2017, 01:23:49 PM
That's funny. Fierce neighborhood opposition hasn't ever stopped WisDOT from ramming through unpopular expansions in the city. Guess they treat the burbs with kid gloves...
You obviously have forgotten about all those unbuilt freeways in the Milwaukee area. Or the compromises like Lake Parkway and Lincoln Memorial Drive.
SM-G900P
I haven't obviously forgotten anything. I'm referring to recent history. But as long as we're talking about historically, how about the way that bronzeville and the walnut street neighborhood were completely removed for the I-43 carriage way? And also consider that the lake freeway and most of the other unbuilt segments were supposed to go through affluent areas... Transportation planners have a long history of giving in to the haves while giving short shrift to the have-nots.
In this case, there'd be no "ramming down anyone's throat". Any interchanges between WI-100 and Moorland Rd. would not have been considered during the initial build (during the time they were "ramming things" through). That area was nothing but farmland until the early-to-mid 80's. It wasn't until the area got built out that rumblings started for something like a Calhoun Rd. exit started. By then the land was much too valuable and the pressure too great for WisDOT to do anything. The only time WisDOT rams anything through is if they have any support from the local municipality. There is a long string of projects all over the state that are scaled back or not done due to opposition.
That area was not "nothing but farmland" in the early to mid 1980s. Yeah there was a field here and there but that part of Brookfield was building up in 1960s.
You got that right. My sister and brother in law line in a house along Bluemound just east of Moorland that was built in the 50's. That area was building up long before the 80's Now I do vaguely remember some farmland left west of Calhoun that was just starting to be developed around the late 80's. But Brookfield east of Calhoun was still mostly built up even in the 80's.
Yup, my parents house and neighborhood was built in the 1960s. The are around them didn't totally fill in until the 1990s. The Corners development that is taking up the remaining land from the Ruby Farms and where the WTMJ radio towers used to be was the largest remaining undeveloped land in Brookfield.
I don't see Interstate 94 getting any new interchanges between Madison and Milwaukee anytime soon. Although this is well to the west of the Milwaukee area, wasn't there a proposal to eliminate the existing Willow Glen Road interchange (Exit 277)?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 27, 2017, 07:20:54 PM
I don't see Interstate 94 getting any new interchanges between Madison and Milwaukee anytime soon. Although this is well to the west of the Milwaukee area, wasn't there a proposal to eliminate the existing Willow Glen Road interchange (Exit 277)?
It was part of SEWRPC's freeway reconstruction study for the entire region many years ago to eliminate the half interchange at Willow Glen. No idea if that's still the plan. That study also recommended turning the half interchange at CTH P into a full access interchange and that came to fruition.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 28, 2017, 09:28:35 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 27, 2017, 07:20:54 PM
I don't see Interstate 94 getting any new interchanges between Madison and Milwaukee anytime soon. Although this is well to the west of the Milwaukee area, wasn't there a proposal to eliminate the existing Willow Glen Road interchange (Exit 277)?
I think the CTH P interchange work was due to the Pabst Farms development. As for Willow Rd., not sure why they'd spend the money to remove an interchange. Of course, I don't have much of an idea on what it costs to maintain.
It was part of SEWRPC's freeway reconstruction study for the entire region many years ago to eliminate the half interchange at Willow Glen. No idea if that's still the plan. That study also recommended turning the half interchange at CTH P into a full access interchange and that came to fruition.
Thanks for the info. Personally, I believe the proposal to eliminate Exit 277 is probably dead.
Quote from: GeekJedi on June 28, 2017, 11:32:32 AM
As for Willow Rd., not sure why they'd spend the money to remove an interchange. Of course, I don't have much of an idea on what it costs to maintain.
The one rationale I can come up with is if they don't want trucks taking Delafield Rd as a short cut to I-94 to/from the west because of that big Roundy's distribution center and maybe there are locals complaining about the traffic? There's a sign on I-94 EB that says trucks over 10 tons are not permitted on Delafield Rd, but who knows how enforced that is.
It's pure speculation on my part though. The SEWRPC study predates the distribution center by several years.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 28, 2017, 02:44:09 PM
Thanks for the info. Personally, I believe the proposal to eliminate Exit 277 is probably dead.
Sure we can all agree it's not vitially needed but as long as it's there why get rid of it? What I don't get is why the DOT never posted a warning sign letting drivers know there is no eastbound return ramp at that interchange. They did it for Hwy P during the days that interchange was only partial.
Quote from: dvferyance on June 28, 2017, 07:30:56 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 28, 2017, 02:44:09 PM
Thanks for the info. Personally, I believe the proposal to eliminate Exit 277 is probably dead.
Sure we can all agree it's not vitially needed but as long as it's there why get rid of it? What I don't get is why the DOT never posted a warning sign letting drivers know there is no eastbound return ramp at that interchange. They did it for Hwy P during the days that interchange was only partial.
That is not a typical practice of WisDOT. Even here in Illinois, only the Tollways have signs about interchanges being partial interchanges.
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 30, 2017, 02:40:24 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 28, 2017, 07:30:56 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 28, 2017, 02:44:09 PM
Thanks for the info. Personally, I believe the proposal to eliminate Exit 277 is probably dead.
Sure we can all agree it's not vitially needed but as long as it's there why get rid of it? What I don't get is why the DOT never posted a warning sign letting drivers know there is no eastbound return ramp at that interchange. They did it for Hwy P during the days that interchange was only partial.
That is not a typical practice of WisDOT. Even here in Illinois, only the Tollways have signs about interchanges being partial interchanges.
I wouldn't say that. The partial Lake Dr interchange in Amhurst on US-10 is marked as such so is the partial interchange on I-39 at County Road D in Marquette County. The difference is Wisconsin has far fewer partial interchanges then Illinois.
So what's the over/under on the I-94 expansion being sped up if the state lands a Foxconn factory in Mt. Pleasant? Seems like it would move to being a top priority.
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on July 24, 2017, 11:17:16 PM
So what's the over/under on the I-94 expansion being sped up if the state lands a Foxconn factory in Mt. Pleasant? Seems like it would move to being a top priority.
Is the Zoo interchange done yet?
Quote from: SSOWorld on July 25, 2017, 05:29:04 AM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on July 24, 2017, 11:17:16 PM
So what's the over/under on the I-94 expansion being sped up if the state lands a Foxconn factory in Mt. Pleasant? Seems like it would move to being a top priority.
Is the Zoo interchange done yet?
Well, obviously not... ;) But I could see Vos and company pushing for moving forward on Racine and Southern Milwaukee Counties before finishing the North leg of the Zoo project...
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on July 24, 2017, 11:17:16 PM
So what's the over/under on the I-94 expansion being sped up if the state lands a Foxconn factory in Mt. Pleasant? Seems like it would move to being a top priority.
I would think so I thought the plan was finish existing projects first before starting a new ones. But for what ever reason some new projects did start after that.
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on July 25, 2017, 10:46:52 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on July 25, 2017, 05:29:04 AM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on July 24, 2017, 11:17:16 PM
So what's the over/under on the I-94 expansion being sped up if the state lands a Foxconn factory in Mt. Pleasant? Seems like it would move to being a top priority.
Is the Zoo interchange done yet?
Well, obviously not... ;) But I could see Vos and company pushing for moving forward on Racine and Southern Milwaukee Counties before finishing the North leg of the Zoo project...
Directive from the top. Finish the Zoo first. Nothing more is going to happen on 94 until 2019.
Quote from: SSOWorld on July 25, 2017, 09:51:36 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on July 25, 2017, 10:46:52 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on July 25, 2017, 05:29:04 AM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on July 24, 2017, 11:17:16 PM
So what's the over/under on the I-94 expansion being sped up if the state lands a Foxconn factory in Mt. Pleasant? Seems like it would move to being a top priority.
Is the Zoo interchange done yet?
Well, obviously not... ;) But I could see Vos and company pushing for moving forward on Racine and Southern Milwaukee Counties before finishing the North leg of the Zoo project...
Directive from the top. Finish the Zoo first. Nothing more is going to happen on 94 until 2019.
Well, that directive will change if Foxconn asks. Guaranteed.
Quote from: SSOWorld on July 25, 2017, 09:51:36 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on July 25, 2017, 10:46:52 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on July 25, 2017, 05:29:04 AM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on July 24, 2017, 11:17:16 PM
So what's the over/under on the I-94 expansion being sped up if the state lands a Foxconn factory in Mt. Pleasant? Seems like it would move to being a top priority.
Is the Zoo interchange done yet?
Well, obviously not... ;) But I could see Vos and company pushing for moving forward on Racine and Southern Milwaukee Counties before finishing the North leg of the Zoo project...
Directive from the top. Finish the Zoo first. Nothing more is going to happen on 94 until 2019.
From today's Journal-Sentinel:
"Wisconsin has already committed to up to $3 billion in state tax incentives that could be paid out in cash to Foxconn if the company comes through in creating up to 13,000 jobs, plus another $252 million for work on the Interstate 94 leg south of Milwaukee that would serve the flat screen display plant."
;-)
Quote from: GeekJedi on August 02, 2017, 07:31:19 AM
From today's Journal-Sentinel:
"Wisconsin has already committed to up to $3 billion in state tax incentives that could be paid out in cash to Foxconn if the company comes through in creating up to 13,000 jobs, plus another $252 million for work on the Interstate 94 leg south of Milwaukee that would serve the flat screen display plant."
Finishing the "reconstruction" of the north-south section of I-94 has also been mentioned in the Chicago area newspapers lately, along with possibly using bonds to pay for it.
Quote from: Revive 755 on August 02, 2017, 08:57:50 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on August 02, 2017, 07:31:19 AM
From today's Journal-Sentinel:
"Wisconsin has already committed to up to $3 billion in state tax incentives that could be paid out in cash to Foxconn if the company comes through in creating up to 13,000 jobs, plus another $252 million for work on the Interstate 94 leg south of Milwaukee that would serve the flat screen display plant."
Finishing the "reconstruction" of the north-south section of I-94 has also been mentioned in the Chicago area newspapers lately, along with possibly using bonds to pay for it.
Although this is likely wandering into the 'Fantasy Highways' zone, depending on the site(s) chosen for this and any ancillary plants, as well as all of the other development that would reasonably be expected to come along with this (ie, residential, local commercial, etc), what other notable road and highway upgrades might we see coming from this? Over the past day or so, I did hear some radio news reports out of Milwaukee about landowners being approached about this in the Sturtevant area.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on August 03, 2017, 10:38:19 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on August 02, 2017, 08:57:50 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on August 02, 2017, 07:31:19 AM
From today's Journal-Sentinel:
"Wisconsin has already committed to up to $3 billion in state tax incentives that could be paid out in cash to Foxconn if the company comes through in creating up to 13,000 jobs, plus another $252 million for work on the Interstate 94 leg south of Milwaukee that would serve the flat screen display plant."
Finishing the "reconstruction" of the north-south section of I-94 has also been mentioned in the Chicago area newspapers lately, along with possibly using bonds to pay for it.
Although this is likely wandering into the 'Fantasy Highways' zone, depending on the site(s) chosen for this and any ancillary plants, as well as all of the other development that would reasonably be expected to come along with this (ie, residential, local commercial, etc), what other notable road and highway upgrades might we see coming from this? Over the past day or so, I did hear some radio news reports out of Milwaukee about landowners being approached about this in the Sturtevant area.
Mike
I think all of the ramps / roads with exits are setup to be widened on that part of I-94 I think the new ramps are like 99% done.
https://projects.511wi.gov/i94northsouth/overview/
The Foxconn deal seems to accelerated the project from a 15-year plan to a 4-year plan
Also this... http://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/about-wisdot/newsroom/news-rel/103017-infra-grant-.aspx
Quote from: SSOWorld on October 31, 2017, 05:30:50 PM
The Foxconn deal seems to accelerated the project from a 15-year plan to a 4-year plan
I'm stunned, I tell ya. Stunned!! :-D
Quote from: mgk920 on August 03, 2017, 10:38:19 AM
Although this is likely wandering into the 'Fantasy Highways' zone, depending on the site(s) chosen for this and any ancillary plants, as well as all of the other development that would reasonably be expected to come along with this (ie, residential, local commercial, etc), what other notable road and highway upgrades might we see coming from this? Over the past day or so, I did hear some radio news reports out of Milwaukee about landowners being approached about this in the Sturtevant area.
Mike
I'm wondering if this could lead towards at least studies for extending Lake Parkway down to Racine? Depending where the plant goes, I could also see a new connector road and interchange being built on I-94.
At the very least, WisDOT may rethink their design for the CTH KR interchange; throw in a loop or something.
I'm bemused by this Foxconn thing; watching all the 'free market' types fall all over themselves to have the government subsidize this one factory; picking winners and losers. I have to assume they'll be using eminent domain to secure at least some of the land needed and hand it over to this private corporation. I thought big government was bad?
But it's okay apparently, because there will be like 12,000 jobs... for robots.
It's great we get to 8-lane I-94 the rest of the way, but it's coming at the expense of, in my opinion, more deserving highway projects around the state and especially in southeast Wisconsin. An extra lane there is good, but an extra lane on I-43 on the north side of Metro Milwaukee would be much, much better. Just one example.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 01, 2017, 05:24:27 PM
...but it's coming at the expense of, in my opinion, more deserving highway projects around the state and especially in southeast Wisconsin.
I don't think this is mutually exclusive to anything else. They're adding funding specifically for this, not taking funding away from anything else.
Quote from: GeekJedi on November 01, 2017, 06:58:05 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 01, 2017, 05:24:27 PM
...but it's coming at the expense of, in my opinion, more deserving highway projects around the state and especially in southeast Wisconsin.
I don't think this is mutually exclusive to anything else. They're adding funding specifically for this, not taking funding away from anything else.
Then why are the Zoo freeway approaches being cut from the schedule? Also I-94 Zoo to Stadium?
Quote from: SSOWorld on November 01, 2017, 10:42:46 PM
Then why are the Zoo freeway approaches being cut from the schedule? Also I-94 Zoo to Stadium?
Because the legislature refuses to raise taxes or add money to the transportation budget, so projects like this one that were originally expected to be funded in a timely manner are getting pared back. Those cuts were announced before the Foxconn deal (and the related I-94 expansion). Especially since as they slow down, they get more expensive to build.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 01, 2017, 05:24:27 PM
At the very least, WisDOT may rethink their design for the CTH KR interchange; throw in a loop or something.
I'm bemused by this Foxconn thing; watching all the 'free market' types fall all over themselves to have the government subsidize this one factory; picking winners and losers. I have to assume they'll be using eminent domain to secure at least some of the land needed and hand it over to this private corporation. I thought big government was bad?
But it's okay apparently, because there will be like 12,000 jobs... for robots.
It's great we get to 8-lane I-94 the rest of the way, but it's coming at the expense of, in my opinion, more deserving highway projects around the state and especially in southeast Wisconsin. An extra lane there is good, but an extra lane on I-43 on the north side of Metro Milwaukee would be much, much better. Just one example.
The whole FoxConn deal is a con job. Essentially, politicians moving heaven and earth to accommodate one company, so they can brag about"creating jobs."
At least Wisconsin has no chance of getting Amazon. That's going to be an even more ridiculous deal.
Quote from: FightingIrish on November 02, 2017, 12:01:39 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 01, 2017, 05:24:27 PM
At the very least, WisDOT may rethink their design for the CTH KR interchange; throw in a loop or something.
I'm bemused by this Foxconn thing; watching all the 'free market' types fall all over themselves to have the government subsidize this one factory; picking winners and losers. I have to assume they'll be using eminent domain to secure at least some of the land needed and hand it over to this private corporation. I thought big government was bad?
But it's okay apparently, because there will be like 12,000 jobs... for robots.
It's great we get to 8-lane I-94 the rest of the way, but it's coming at the expense of, in my opinion, more deserving highway projects around the state and especially in southeast Wisconsin. An extra lane there is good, but an extra lane on I-43 on the north side of Metro Milwaukee would be much, much better. Just one example.
The whole FoxConn deal is a con job. Essentially, politicians moving heaven and earth to accommodate one company, so they can brag about"creating jobs."
At least Wisconsin has no chance of getting Amazon. That's going to be an even more ridiculous deal.
Let's just get back to talking about roads. Politics belong on a different forum.
Quote from: dvferyance on November 02, 2017, 07:01:59 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on November 02, 2017, 12:01:39 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 01, 2017, 05:24:27 PM
At the very least, WisDOT may rethink their design for the CTH KR interchange; throw in a loop or something.
I'm bemused by this Foxconn thing; watching all the 'free market' types fall all over themselves to have the government subsidize this one factory; picking winners and losers. I have to assume they'll be using eminent domain to secure at least some of the land needed and hand it over to this private corporation. I thought big government was bad?
But it's okay apparently, because there will be like 12,000 jobs... for robots.
It's great we get to 8-lane I-94 the rest of the way, but it's coming at the expense of, in my opinion, more deserving highway projects around the state and especially in southeast Wisconsin. An extra lane there is good, but an extra lane on I-43 on the north side of Metro Milwaukee would be much, much better. Just one example.
The whole FoxConn deal is a con job. Essentially, politicians moving heaven and earth to accommodate one company, so they can brag about"creating jobs."
At least Wisconsin has no chance of getting Amazon. That's going to be an even more ridiculous deal.
Let's just get back to talking about roads. Politics belong on a different forum.
Roads are one of the most politically charged topics there is. It's hard to discuss roads without wading into politics at least sometimes. I would concede your point that the Foxconn stuff is off-topic, but I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway. I remain skeptical about the deal, but will wait and see how it goes. If it gets the I-94 project done sometime in the next decade, then all the better.
<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fwizoointerchange%2Fposts%2F1474458906001969&width=500" width="500" height="651" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true"></iframe>
From the Zoo Interchange project Facebook page, in 2018 they plan on resurfacing and restriping stretches of I-41 and I-894 for 8 lanes and building auxiliary lanes from Moorland Rd. to Hwy 100 on I-94. The resurfacing and restriping are interim solutions until funding can be found to properly reconstruct those stretches, according to comments from the Zoo Interchange page.
They had the funds, then they squandered them in a political battle by delaying the projects.
Quote from: SSOWorld on November 04, 2017, 07:56:05 AM
They had the funds, then they squandered them in a political battle by delaying the projects.
Yep. And for some reason they all think that kicking the can down the road is a reasonable solution.
Quote from: GeekJedi on November 04, 2017, 11:22:56 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on November 04, 2017, 07:56:05 AM
They had the funds, then they squandered them in a political battle by delaying the projects.
Yep. And for some reason they all think that kicking the can down the road is a reasonable solution.
A political reason. Walker won't raise gas taxes to protect his future Presidential run.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 04, 2017, 05:02:46 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on November 04, 2017, 11:22:56 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on November 04, 2017, 07:56:05 AM
They had the funds, then they squandered them in a political battle by delaying the projects.
Yep. And for some reason they all think that kicking the can down the road is a reasonable solution.
A political reason. Walker won't raise gas taxes to protect his future Presidential run.
He already ran for president in 2016. We all know how that went. Unless you mean 2020? Anyway he's running for governor again. He cares more about winning elections than actually helping the people of Wisconsin. It sucks that he doesn't care about doing anything for us.
Any politician is in it for none other than running for re-election.
Back to the topic...
I think the topic was how to get back the funds to work on the Zoo Interchange, is that correct?
Quote from: MantyMadTown on March 28, 2018, 09:31:30 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 04, 2017, 05:02:46 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on November 04, 2017, 11:22:56 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on November 04, 2017, 07:56:05 AM
They had the funds, then they squandered them in a political battle by delaying the projects.
Yep. And for some reason they all think that kicking the can down the road is a reasonable solution.
A political reason. Walker won't raise gas taxes to protect his future Presidential run.
He already ran for president in 2016. We all know how that went. Unless you mean 2020? Anyway he's running for governor again. He cares more about winning elections than actually helping the people of Wisconsin. It sucks that he doesn't care about doing anything for us.
I don't see how raising taxes is helping the people but regardless I wish this forum would not get to political.
Quote from: dvferyance on March 29, 2018, 05:55:57 PM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on March 28, 2018, 09:31:30 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 04, 2017, 05:02:46 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on November 04, 2017, 11:22:56 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on November 04, 2017, 07:56:05 AM
They had the funds, then they squandered them in a political battle by delaying the projects.
Yep. And for some reason they all think that kicking the can down the road is a reasonable solution.
A political reason. Walker won't raise gas taxes to protect his future Presidential run.
He already ran for president in 2016. We all know how that went. Unless you mean 2020? Anyway he's running for governor again. He cares more about winning elections than actually helping the people of Wisconsin. It sucks that he doesn't care about doing anything for us.
I don't see how raising taxes is helping the people but regardless I wish this forum would not get to political.
And that sentence is very indicative of the problem.
Quote from: dvferyance on November 02, 2017, 07:01:59 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on November 02, 2017, 12:01:39 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 01, 2017, 05:24:27 PM
At the very least, WisDOT may rethink their design for the CTH KR interchange; throw in a loop or something.
I'm bemused by this Foxconn thing; watching all the 'free market' types fall all over themselves to have the government subsidize this one factory; picking winners and losers. I have to assume they'll be using eminent domain to secure at least some of the land needed and hand it over to this private corporation. I thought big government was bad?
But it's okay apparently, because there will be like 12,000 jobs... for robots.
It's great we get to 8-lane I-94 the rest of the way, but it's coming at the expense of, in my opinion, more deserving highway projects around the state and especially in southeast Wisconsin. An extra lane there is good, but an extra lane on I-43 on the north side of Metro Milwaukee would be much, much better. Just one example.
The whole FoxConn deal is a con job. Essentially, politicians moving heaven and earth to accommodate one company, so they can brag about"creating jobs."
At least Wisconsin has no chance of getting Amazon. That's going to be an even more ridiculous deal.
Let's just get back to talking about roads. Politics belong on a different forum.
Avoid politics so we can't talk about what's really happening in this state? Maybe people won't be led down the garden path anymore–as that won't be full of "Scottholes" .
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on June 07, 2018, 12:20:41 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on November 02, 2017, 07:01:59 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on November 02, 2017, 12:01:39 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 01, 2017, 05:24:27 PM
At the very least, WisDOT may rethink their design for the CTH KR interchange; throw in a loop or something.
I'm bemused by this Foxconn thing; watching all the 'free market' types fall all over themselves to have the government subsidize this one factory; picking winners and losers. I have to assume they'll be using eminent domain to secure at least some of the land needed and hand it over to this private corporation. I thought big government was bad?
But it's okay apparently, because there will be like 12,000 jobs... for robots.
It's great we get to 8-lane I-94 the rest of the way, but it's coming at the expense of, in my opinion, more deserving highway projects around the state and especially in southeast Wisconsin. An extra lane there is good, but an extra lane on I-43 on the north side of Metro Milwaukee would be much, much better. Just one example.
The whole FoxConn deal is a con job. Essentially, politicians moving heaven and earth to accommodate one company, so they can brag about"creating jobs."
At least Wisconsin has no chance of getting Amazon. That's going to be an even more ridiculous deal.
Let's just get back to talking about roads. Politics belong on a different forum.
Avoid politics so we can't talk about what's really happening in this state? Maybe people won't be led down the garden path anymore–as that won't be full of "Scottholes" .
Ok if you want to discuss politics I will say this I remember when fmr Gov Doyle raided the transportation funds to balance his budget.
Quote from: dvferyance on June 08, 2018, 04:50:07 PM
Quote from: midwesternroadguy on June 07, 2018, 12:20:41 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on November 02, 2017, 07:01:59 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on November 02, 2017, 12:01:39 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 01, 2017, 05:24:27 PM
At the very least, WisDOT may rethink their design for the CTH KR interchange; throw in a loop or something.
I'm bemused by this Foxconn thing; watching all the 'free market' types fall all over themselves to have the government subsidize this one factory; picking winners and losers. I have to assume they'll be using eminent domain to secure at least some of the land needed and hand it over to this private corporation. I thought big government was bad?
But it's okay apparently, because there will be like 12,000 jobs... for robots.
It's great we get to 8-lane I-94 the rest of the way, but it's coming at the expense of, in my opinion, more deserving highway projects around the state and especially in southeast Wisconsin. An extra lane there is good, but an extra lane on I-43 on the north side of Metro Milwaukee would be much, much better. Just one example.
The whole FoxConn deal is a con job. Essentially, politicians moving heaven and earth to accommodate one company, so they can brag about"creating jobs."
At least Wisconsin has no chance of getting Amazon. That's going to be an even more ridiculous deal.
Let's just get back to talking about roads. Politics belong on a different forum.
Avoid politics so we can't talk about what's really happening in this state? Maybe people won't be led down the garden path anymore–as that won't be full of "Scottholes" .
Ok if you want to discuss politics I will say this I remember when fmr Gov Doyle raided the transportation funds to balance his budget.
Big difference between balancing the budget and subsidizing a company, not that it makes it any better though.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2018/08/28/scott-walker-declares-zoo-interchange-done-even-work-remains/1121749002/
I know this is old, but when's the rest of the Zoo Interchange project going to be done? I'm hoping that there will be more money in the budget for it next year.
I'm also wondering if we'll see the Stadium Interchange get reconstructed soon.
Quote from: MantyMadTown on November 18, 2018, 10:37:29 PM
I'm also wondering if we'll see the Stadium Interchange get reconstructed soon.
Since many of the recent political races seemed to highlight a need to "share the construction wealth" with other parts of the state, I doubt we'll get more than spot repairs/pavement rehab in the next 5-10 years. The project website (https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/se/94stadiumint/default.aspx) paints a bleaker picture, with a notice that the project is on hold "until further notice". I highly doubt they'd spend money to upgrade the Stadium Interchange without being able to improve the system approaches.
This is where the planning process left off, as far as I can find: Preferred Alternative (https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/se/94ew-study/preferred-alternative-v4.pdf), Other Considered Options (https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/se/94ew-study/stadium-interchange-six-options.pdf)
I wonder if city leaders lobbied to have this segment's proposed reconstruction postponed because it would widen Interstate 94 to eight lanes, which the city does not want to happpen.
WIDOT pulled it because it was going to cost $1B and the state doesn't have the money. And yes the City has been lukewarm on the project, wanting reconstruction without widening.
Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.
Quote from: dvferyance on November 26, 2018, 06:24:56 PM
Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.
Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.
Quote from: GeekJedi on November 26, 2018, 07:19:26 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on November 26, 2018, 06:24:56 PM
Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.
Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.
Important to note those are two separate Norquist ideas there.
The one idea to reroute 94 over 894 was a brainstorm about trying to reduce traffic on the East-West Freeway west of the Zoo Interchange. It was poorly thought out since thru traffic already uses 894 exclusively. But it should not be mistaken as a serious proposal that a government entity spent time and money investigating.
Tearing down 794 between the Marquette and Lake Interchanges was slightly more serious (though not really at WisDOT). That at least had some merit. Most traffic is going to-from downtown and not through it so it would not have been the end of the world for the freeway to end west of the Milwaukee River and have the Hoan dump out directly onto Lincoln Memorial Drive. The time savings versus the real estate consumed by I-794 made it viable in my opinion. Norquist was riding high off of the successful teardown of the Park East stub, but there wasn't the momentum to repeat the endeavor at 794.
I remember this debate going on back in the early 00's because it would affect how WisDOT would rebuild the Marquette and how much that rebuild would cost. I sometimes wonder how much further west and south from the core they could've rebuilt for the same price ($810 million) if they
had decided to axe the E-W portion of 794. I suspect one could've had a modern 8-lane I-94 out to the Stadium Interchange for the same budget with four fewer high-speed ramps to build (really, its 5 because of the Plankinton Ave connection from the south)
As I've stated before, the Park East teardown was ultimately successful, it just took longer than everyone wanted to get the infill. The bureaucracy of city and county government got in its own way for a time. I think the teardown was key in the eventual building boom/gentrification surge northwest of the downtown core. From personal experience, I used McKinley Ave for several years on the reg and the surface street was perfectly fine to get me where I was going. Not to mention how much money Wisconsin saved not having to rebuild a second system interchange as part of the Marquette project.
The highway side won all the battles about I-794. It's all been refurbished and redecked recently so that is what Milwaukee is going to have for another 30-40 years.
And having a "boulevard" in place of I-794 would have created a more seamless flow between downtown and the 3rd Ward. Right now that highway serves as a barrier. The traffic would not have been terrible as triple mentions, and I'm sure it could have been made "pedestrian friendly" using modern design.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 28, 2018, 09:12:50 AM
And having a "boulevard" in place of I-794 would have created a more seamless flow between downtown and the 3rd Ward. Right now that highway serves as a barrier. The traffic would not have been terrible as triple mentions, and I'm sure it could have been made "pedestrian friendly" using modern design.
I was walking around in that part of downtown Milwaukee a couple of weeks ago, mainly to check out the new tram line, but also just to check the area out. I did notice that a significant amount of Millennial gentrification has been taking place in the area around St Paul Ave by the river and that the area does appear to be doing a pretty decent job of integrating the freeway structure into that whole scene.
I also note that I can very well sense that the area along St Paul Ave from the Intermodal Station (Amtrak 'MKE') westward towards I-94/27th St and the Canal St area from there towards Miller Park is perfectly poised to be the next 'frontier' for serious Millennial attention.
(BTW, right now I'd give the city's nascent tram system (called 'The Hop') a grade of 'C'. I thought that the vehicles were stiff and harsh riding and a bit noisy on the inside. We'll see more on how things go with it once potential system extensions are developed.)
Mike
My guess is the next round of gentrification will happen more around the area of the new arena - Fiserv Forum.
Quote from: GeekJedi on November 26, 2018, 07:19:26 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on November 26, 2018, 06:24:56 PM
Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.
Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.
Right which would have been a horrible idea. My point is however because Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway leadership is why expansion has taken place farther out of the city but not in the city itself.
Quote from: dvferyance on November 29, 2018, 07:35:46 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on November 26, 2018, 07:19:26 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on November 26, 2018, 06:24:56 PM
Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.
Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.
Right which would have been a horrible idea. My point is however because Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway leadership is why expansion has taken place farther out of the city but not in the city itself.
A tangent, but this is yet another reason why, IMHO, one of the best things that could possibly happen to the Milwaukee metro area would be for a way to be found to allow the suburbanites to vote in elections for mayor and city council.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on November 29, 2018, 08:47:17 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on November 29, 2018, 07:35:46 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on November 26, 2018, 07:19:26 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on November 26, 2018, 06:24:56 PM
Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.
Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.
Right which would have been a horrible idea. My point is however because Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway leadership is why expansion has taken place farther out of the city but not in the city itself.
A tangent, but this is yet another reason why, IMHO, one of the best things that could possibly happen to the Milwaukee metro area would be for a way to be found to allow the suburbanites to vote in elections for mayor and city council.
Mike
Sure. Just as long as Milwaukeeans can vote for Suburban mayors and council members. ;-)
Quote from: GeekJedi on November 29, 2018, 09:02:18 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on November 29, 2018, 08:47:17 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on November 29, 2018, 07:35:46 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on November 26, 2018, 07:19:26 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on November 26, 2018, 06:24:56 PM
Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.
Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.
Right which would have been a horrible idea. My point is however because Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway leadership is why expansion has taken place farther out of the city but not in the city itself.
A tangent, but this is yet another reason why, IMHO, one of the best things that could possibly happen to the Milwaukee metro area would be for a way to be found to allow the suburbanites to vote in elections for mayor and city council.
Mike
Sure. Just as long as Milwaukeeans can vote for Suburban mayors and council members. ;-)
An amalgamated city of about 1.3 million population? (Note, the current suburbanites would then control such a city council and mayor's office.)
:hmmm:
:nod:
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on November 29, 2018, 08:47:17 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on November 29, 2018, 07:35:46 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on November 26, 2018, 07:19:26 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on November 26, 2018, 06:24:56 PM
Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.
Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.
Right which would have been a horrible idea. My point is however because Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway leadership is why expansion has taken place farther out of the city but not in the city itself.
A tangent, but this is yet another reason why, IMHO, one of the best things that could possibly happen to the Milwaukee metro area would be for a way to be found to allow the suburbanites to vote in elections for mayor and city council.
Mike
So you either believe that Milwaukeans are too dumb to vote for the people who best represents their interests, or that Milwaukee exists for the benefit of the people who don't live in the city. Yeah I am being hyperbolic but it's not really all that difficult to see why they take the stances they do.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 29, 2018, 10:01:38 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on November 29, 2018, 08:47:17 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on November 29, 2018, 07:35:46 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on November 26, 2018, 07:19:26 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on November 26, 2018, 06:24:56 PM
Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.
Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.
Right which would have been a horrible idea. My point is however because Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway leadership is why expansion has taken place farther out of the city but not in the city itself.
A tangent, but this is yet another reason why, IMHO, one of the best things that could possibly happen to the Milwaukee metro area would be for a way to be found to allow the suburbanites to vote in elections for mayor and city council.
Mike
So you either believe that Milwaukeans are too dumb to vote for the people who best represents their interests, or that Milwaukee exists for the benefit of the people who don't live in the city. Yeah I am being hyperbolic but it's not really all that difficult to see why they take the stances they do.
To me, the observations from the 'outside' tell me that the vast majority of those who actually give a rip about what goes on in the city are unable to do anything about it because they are ineligible to vote in elections for mayor and city council due to their not living in the city.
That then begs the question of 'How different would the city be today if all of the residents of the metro area COULD vote in those elections, had the entire metro area been defined as being IN the city?'.
:hmmm:
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on November 30, 2018, 04:05:56 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 29, 2018, 10:01:38 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on November 29, 2018, 08:47:17 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on November 29, 2018, 07:35:46 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on November 26, 2018, 07:19:26 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on November 26, 2018, 06:24:56 PM
Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.
Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.
Right which would have been a horrible idea. My point is however because Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway leadership is why expansion has taken place farther out of the city but not in the city itself.
A tangent, but this is yet another reason why, IMHO, one of the best things that could possibly happen to the Milwaukee metro area would be for a way to be found to allow the suburbanites to vote in elections for mayor and city council.
Mike
So you either believe that Milwaukeans are too dumb to vote for the people who best represents their interests, or that Milwaukee exists for the benefit of the people who don't live in the city. Yeah I am being hyperbolic but it's not really all that difficult to see why they take the stances they do.
To me, the observations from the 'outside' tell me that the vast majority of those who actually give a rip about what goes on in the city are unable to do anything about it because they are ineligible to vote in elections for mayor and city council due to their not living in the city.
I used to live in Milwaukee and have many friends and family that still do. That observation is ridiculous. What I can say is that those who live in the city oftentimes differ with those in the suburbs about HOW to best improve the city. The I-94 expansion is a great example of that.
People love to rip on the mayor, but Milwaukee is a much better place than when he took over. Many parts of the city now are attracting people back from the suburbs. The city is actually gaining in population again. It's actually doing a lot of great things.
I'm not sure a bigger (geographically) Milwaukee would improve anything. I look at similar sized cites (or metros, I should say) that don't have nearly as many suburbs; particularly ones where the city and county governments merged a long time ago; and they seem to have all the same issues and inequalities as the cities ringed by oodles of little suburbs.
Quote from: mgk920 on November 30, 2018, 04:05:56 AM
To me, the observations from the 'outside' tell me that the vast majority of those who actually give a rip about what goes on in the city are unable to do anything about it because they are ineligible to vote in elections for mayor and city council due to their not living in the city.
:hmmm:
Mike
Actually, you mean to say "those who actually don't like what the Democrats are doing in the city..."
I live in one of the deep-red "WOW" counties. The people in those counties don't actually give a rip about what happens in Milwaukee, they just hate to see things like the streetcar happen. Which, honestly, is none of their business. That's like saying that what happens in Appleton affects the rest of the state, so we all should have a say in their government as well.
Nah, that "have a say in Milwaukee" thing is entirely political, and it's even more prevalent now that Dane and Milwaukee Counties helped elect Evers.
The whole reason SEWRPC exists is to coordinate infrastructure through the region. No need to modify Milwaukee politics.
Quote from: GeekJedi on November 30, 2018, 10:03:21 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on November 30, 2018, 04:05:56 AM
To me, the observations from the 'outside' tell me that the vast majority of those who actually give a rip about what goes on in the city are unable to do anything about it because they are ineligible to vote in elections for mayor and city council due to their not living in the city.
:hmmm:
Mike
Actually, you mean to say "those who actually don't like what the Democrats are doing in the city..."
I live in one of the deep-red "WOW" counties. The people in those counties don't actually give a rip about what happens in Milwaukee, they just hate to see things like the streetcar happen. Which, honestly, is none of their business. That's like saying that what happens in Appleton affects the rest of the state, so we all should have a say in their government as well.
Nah, that "have a say in Milwaukee" thing is entirely political, and it's even more prevalent now that Dane and Milwaukee Counties helped elect Evers.
The whole reason SEWRPC exists is to coordinate infrastructure through the region. No need to modify Milwaukee politics.
Yeah that too. I hear this stuff all the time and I don't think people realize how condescending it is. "Don't people from Milwaukee know what's good for them?"
Was poking around on a few map apps (Google, Apple and OSM). And, for whatever reason, I was wondering how WIS 241 was currently being signed, seeing as the I-41/94 ramps to 27th Street are no more (the future Elm Road interchange that will be eventually be constructed - along with Elm Road itself - will eventually take its place).
Previously, it was presumed that the southern terminus of WIS 241 was at the 41/94 interchange. But, looking at Google Maps, I noticed that WIS 241 is signed down the frontage road to the Seven Mile Road. Granted, it's Google Maps, and iOS maps shows the current terminus at WIS 100 (Ryan Rd). OSM shows it just ending at the old interchange. However, Google Street View (the pics of which I know are a few years old) does seem to have a different sort of photographic evidence. WIS 241 is indeed signed down to Seven Mile.
WI-241
https://goo.gl/maps/QX8BtjKtCUs
I haven't been around the area lately, but anyone else in that area more up to date on this? Apparently, the frontage road connection with South 27th has been smoothed out, so there is some sort of credibility there. Long story short - where does 241 end nowadays?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190303/5e2b99f00a0d020c782602de5f517745.jpg)
Quote from: FightingIrish on March 02, 2019, 07:37:41 PM
Was poking around on a few map apps (Google, Apple and OSM). And, for whatever reason, I was wondering how WIS 241 was currently being signed, seeing as the I-41/94 ramps to 27th Street are no more (the future Elm Road interchange that will be eventually be constructed - along with Elm Road itself - will eventually take its place).
Previously, it was presumed that the southern terminus of WIS 241 was at the 41/94 interchange. But, looking at Google Maps, I noticed that WIS 241 is signed down the frontage road to the Seven Mile Road. Granted, it's Google Maps, and iOS maps shows the current terminus at WIS 100 (Ryan Rd). OSM shows it just ending at the old interchange. However, Google Street View (the pics of which I know are a few years old) does seem to have a different sort of photographic evidence. WIS 241 is indeed signed down to Seven Mile.
WI-241
https://goo.gl/maps/QX8BtjKtCUs
I haven't been around the area lately, but anyone else in that area more up to date on this? Apparently, the frontage road connection with South 27th has been smoothed out, so there is some sort of credibility there. Long story short - where does 241 end nowadays?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190303/5e2b99f00a0d020c782602de5f517745.jpg)
I think ever since WISDOT closed the 27th St interchange 241 has ended at Seven Mile. Once they build the Elm Dr interchange it'll either move there or stay at Seven Mile. But my guess is that it'll move to the new interchange, as you said it will take the 27th St interchange's place.
Or maybe they'll decommission it since it's pretty useless. (I know that won't happen though.)
Quote from: FightingIrish on March 02, 2019, 07:37:41 PM
Was poking around on a few map apps (Google, Apple and OSM). And, for whatever reason, I was wondering how WIS 241 was currently being signed, seeing as the I-41/94 ramps to 27th Street are no more (the future Elm Road interchange that will be eventually be constructed - along with Elm Road itself - will eventually take its place).
Previously, it was presumed that the southern terminus of WIS 241 was at the 41/94 interchange. But, looking at Google Maps, I noticed that WIS 241 is signed down the frontage road to the Seven Mile Road. Granted, it's Google Maps, and iOS maps shows the current terminus at WIS 100 (Ryan Rd). OSM shows it just ending at the old interchange. However, Google Street View (the pics of which I know are a few years old) does seem to have a different sort of photographic evidence. WIS 241 is indeed signed down to Seven Mile.
WI-241
https://goo.gl/maps/QX8BtjKtCUs
I haven't been around the area lately, but anyone else in that area more up to date on this? Apparently, the frontage road connection with South 27th has been smoothed out, so there is some sort of credibility there. Long story short - where does 241 end nowadays?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190303/5e2b99f00a0d020c782602de5f517745.jpg)
As far as I know, that's been the terminus for a while now. I go by there quite often - I believe that was moved when the construction started on 94/41 in preparation of removing the interchange with 27th St.
The I-94 frontage roads are already maintained by wisdot anyways. So I think it's good bet the end of WI-241 at Seven Mile Rd is permanent.
I emailed WIDOT, and was told they have not made a decision on what to do with the routing of WI-241 yet.
They'll probably reroute STH-241 onto Elm Road, so the highway terminates at Interstate 41/94. It seems like the most logical thing to do to me.
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 05, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.
It doesn't even go east to 13th street. It really makes this interchange so useless. Even by getting rid of the 27th street exit just using Seven Mile Road would have worked just fine.
Quote from: dvferyance on March 06, 2019, 02:58:37 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 05, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.
There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide. And that area has been growing more and more. Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on March 06, 2019, 03:03:43 PM
There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide. And that area has been growing more and more. Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
I wonder if WIDOT had removed that exit a bit too fast? Did they studied others alternatives like an upgrade of that former exit?
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on March 06, 2019, 04:03:26 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on March 06, 2019, 03:03:43 PM
There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide. And that area has been growing more and more. Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
I wonder if WIDOT had removed that exit a bit too fast? Did they studied others alternatives like an upgrade of that former exit?
I'm sure they did. This is all part of the I-94 corridor upgrade. The problem is that the Root River runs real close to that interchange so an upgrade would not have been easy. Honestly I don't understand the criticism.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on March 06, 2019, 03:03:43 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on March 06, 2019, 02:58:37 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 05, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.
There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide. And that area has been growing more and more. Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
I think WISDOT wanted to relocate the 27th St exit, as the current configuration was a bit too close to Seven Mile. Oakwood wasn't very feasible, but, with the realignment of the NB lanes of 41/94, and the big chunk of land available to route Elm Rd., This does seem to make some sense in regard to what WISDOT wants to do. Aside from all that, I highly doubt Elm Rd. will be extended anywhere. It's a connection between the freeway and S. 27th St., that's all.
And I'm guessing WIS 241 will terminate at the new exit when all is said and done.
Quote from: dvferyance on March 05, 2019, 01:23:29 PM
The I-94 frontage roads are already maintained by wisdot anyways. So I think it's good bet the end of WI-241 at Seven Mile Rd is permanent.
Good point. I don't think Seven Mile will be the permanent terminus, but since the state already maintains the frontage road, the temporary extension does make sense. The issue is, counties and local jurisdictions typically do not want to get rid of state routes unless WISDOT offers to swap equivalent mileage on another route. This is what happened in Waukesha County a couple years ago, when the future Waukesha bypass was designated, and WIS 74 was decommissioned, at the request of Menomonee Falls, who wanted to keep the heavy traffic and trucks off Main St. by making it a local street.
Same thing happened in the late 90s in Milwaukee County. The WIS 794 parkway was completed, and in return, WIS 62 was decommissioned and WIS 32 altered a bit.
Construction is starting on the I-43 expansion on the north side of Milwaukee, so this thread is getting bumped.
https://projects.511wi.gov/43north-south/full-project-overview/ (https://projects.511wi.gov/43north-south/full-project-overview/)
First step is to prep the shoulders on the NB carriageway to handle all four lanes when they tear up the SB lanes come spring. Same construction methodology we've observed for many years on 39/90.
Really excited about this project because it will finally overhaul the most outdated freeway in the entire Milwaukee area. I-43 in northern Milwaukee County is bad in just about every way; the interchanges suck, the sightlines are crap at Good Hope Rd, it has inadequate shoulders, and it needs another lane in each direction.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 17, 2021, 03:50:02 PM
Construction is starting on the I-43 expansion on the north side of Milwaukee, so this thread is getting bumped.
https://projects.511wi.gov/43north-south/full-project-overview/ (https://projects.511wi.gov/43north-south/full-project-overview/)
First step is to prep the shoulders on the NB carriageway to handle all four lanes when they tear up the SB lanes come spring. Same construction methodology we've observed for many years on 39/90.
Really excited about this project because it will finally overhaul the most outdated freeway in the entire Milwaukee area. I-43 in northern Milwaukee County is bad in just about every way; the interchanges suck, the sightlines are crap at Good Hope Rd, it has inadequate shoulders, and it needs another lane in each direction.
A lot of good in this project. Not only the expansion to six lanes, which is REALLY needed, but the addition of an exit between Mequon Road and County C makes a ton of sense.
The only bad that I see, is that this expansion should have gone all the way to the WI-57 / I-43 split and not end at WI-60. That's only an extra five miles, but my guess is that they would want to redo the interchange with WI-57 and that would add some cost.
I suspect there is a drop off in traffic past Grafton. I've certainly observed as much anecdotally when I drove that stretch semi-regularly a few years back.
Undoubtedly the traffic drops off the further north you go.
It's been a few years since I traveled this highway, but I drove it regularly in the past. This expansion is long overdue. I thought they'd upgrade this as soon as WisDOT finished expanding the Silver Spring bend but that's been finished for a while now. Probably don't need to expand further north for now. I never noticed much traffic until I got past Saukville but traffic picked up quickly the further south I went.
I'm glad this project is underway. Hopefully the Interstate 94 reconstruction project between 70th St. and 16th St. will soon follow (it was enumerated in 2020).
The Highland Road interchange has been talked about for 30 years, so I'm glad that they're finally getting around to it.
Is there any information on how much money WisDOT has allocated for this project? I have to imagine that there's going to be some pretty pricey right-of-way that will need to be purchased to make this work in addition to the actual construction costs.
The new Highland Rd interchange won't need much r/w due to its tight-diamond design:
(https://projects.511wi.gov/43north-south/wp-content/uploads/sites/705/Highland_Interchange.jpg)
No existing structures are affected.
The rest of the project is pretty much within the existing r/w. Only along the east side of Port Washington Road just north of the railroad overpass are there a cluster of properties acquired.
https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/se/43n-s-corridor/2020materials/maps/port-washington3.pdf (https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/se/43n-s-corridor/2020materials/maps/port-washington3.pdf)
They even managed to squeeze in the new ramps at County Line Rd/Port Washington Rd within the existing right of way.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on March 06, 2019, 03:03:43 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on March 06, 2019, 02:58:37 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 05, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.
There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide. And that area has been growing more and more. Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Using Seven Mile Road interchange would have worked just fine.
Quote from: dvferyance on August 19, 2021, 04:18:50 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on March 06, 2019, 03:03:43 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on March 06, 2019, 02:58:37 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 05, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.
There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide. And that area has been growing more and more. Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Using Seven Mile Road interchange would have worked just fine.
Not really.
Thanks for posting that, 3MX. I was thinking more of the area between Silver Spring and Good Hope Road. With Nicolet High School on the west and Port Washington Road running closely alongside on the east, it looks like it will be tough to squeeze in a third lane in each direction within the existing ROW.
I've always thought that there should be a half interchange (SB I-43 exit and NB I-43 entrance) at Bender Road to take some of the load off the Silver Spring interchange. Not going to happen though.
I'm not sure there is enough space at Bender Rd. to put an interchange there, given N. Port Washington Rd. and N. Jean Nicolet Rd. flank the freeway on both sides. Moving those roads further away from Interstate 43 to build an interchange would require significant condemning of property, and likely loud protests of opposition. So putting an interchange at Bender is a dream deferred.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 17, 2021, 10:18:28 PM
I'm glad this project is underway. Hopefully the Interstate 94 reconstruction project between 70th St. and 16th St. will soon follow (it was enumerated in 2020).
The I-94 project was not enumerated. It's being studied as a potential major project. The two projects that were are the I-39/I-90/I-94 Wisconsin River Bridge and a US 51 rebuild between I-39/I-90 and The Madison Beltline. The rebuild is 2 lanes with intersection improvements and is probably the least exciting majors project that WISDOT has enumerated.
Quote from: jhuntin1 on August 19, 2021, 04:31:16 PM
Thanks for posting that, 3MX. I was thinking more of the area between Silver Spring and Good Hope Road. With Nicolet High School on the west and Port Washington Road running closely alongside on the east, it looks like it will be tough to squeeze in a third lane in each direction within the existing ROW.
They are taking some homes to expand Port Washington Road and give the freeway a little more room for 6 lanes:
https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/se/43n-s-corridor/2020materials/maps/port-washington3.pdf (https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/se/43n-s-corridor/2020materials/maps/port-washington3.pdf)
Aside from the expansion to 6 lanes and the new Highland Rd interchange, I really like that they are going to make Hwy 100 Brown Deer Rd a DDI. Makes a ton of sense.
Use this thread for posts on Milwaukee-area freeways, such as the proposed conversion of the Stadium Interchange into a DDI.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 19, 2021, 04:26:16 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on August 19, 2021, 04:18:50 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on March 06, 2019, 03:03:43 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on March 06, 2019, 02:58:37 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 05, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.
There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide. And that area has been growing more and more. Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Using Seven Mile Road interchange would have worked just fine.
Not really.
Why do you say that? It's less than a mile south of where the old interchange was. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used for 27th street traffic.
Quote from: dvferyance on June 14, 2022, 07:55:43 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 19, 2021, 04:26:16 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on August 19, 2021, 04:18:50 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on March 06, 2019, 03:03:43 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on March 06, 2019, 02:58:37 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 05, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.
There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide. And that area has been growing more and more. Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Using Seven Mile Road interchange would have worked just fine.
Not really.
Why do you say that? It's less than a mile south of where the old interchange was. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used for 27th street traffic.
Look at a map. It is completely inconvenient with the routing 27th Street takes there. Especially considering that growth is likely to continue to occur there. Getting the Elm St interchange built makes perfect sense.
The Brewers think it's worth studying replacing the Parkway by the Stadium with an at grade street. It's surprising that this is being considered since that section was completely rebuilt 20 years ago and does a great job funneling game day traffic to the stadium.
Quote from: peterj920 on June 21, 2022, 10:26:05 PM
The Brewers think it's worth studying replacing the Parkway by the Stadium with an at grade street. It's surprising that this is being considered since that section was completely rebuilt 20 years ago and does a great job funneling game day traffic to the stadium.
I don't believe the interchange was touched as part of that though. And that's what's driving this discussion.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 22, 2022, 04:57:43 AMQuote from: peterj920 on June 21, 2022, 10:26:05 PM
The Brewers think it's worth studying replacing the Parkway by the Stadium with an at grade street. It's surprising that this is being considered since that section was completely rebuilt 20 years ago and does a great job funneling game day traffic to the stadium.
I don't believe the interchange was touched as part of that though. And that's what's driving this discussion.
Correct. The interchange itself is end-of-life per WisDOT (dating from the 1960s) and has to be replaced with something. Initial discussion was to do a 4-level interchange, but that was shot down by the locals. WisDOT is now considering a diverging diamond variant (which would be significantly cheaper and less politically problematic).
EDITed to fix flaky coding.
Quote from: peterj920 on June 21, 2022, 10:26:05 PM
The Brewers think it's worth studying replacing the Parkway by the Stadium with an at grade street. It's surprising that this is being considered since that section was completely rebuilt 20 years ago and does a great job funneling game day traffic to the stadium.
The team has recently been pitching ideas about creating an "Lifestyle/ Entertainment District" in the parking lots across
Miller Park Way Brewers Blvd.
Quote from: on_wisconsin on June 22, 2022, 04:49:39 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on June 21, 2022, 10:26:05 PM
The Brewers think it's worth studying replacing the Parkway by the Stadium with an at grade street. It's surprising that this is being considered since that section was completely rebuilt 20 years ago and does a great job funneling game day traffic to the stadium.
The team has recently been pitching ideas about creating an "Lifestyle/ Entertainment District" in the parking lots across Miller Park Brewers Way.
That seems to be the trend lately. The Packers have their Titletown (https://www.titletown.com/). St Louis Cardinals have their Ballpark District (https://www.stlballparkvillage.com/). I think it all started in modern times with the Baltimore Inner Harbor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_Harbor) hosting the Orioles within Camden Yards. Can't blame the Brewers for jumping on that lucrative bandwagon.
The Packers based their 'Titletown District' on Patriot Place in Massachusetts.
Mike
Quote from: skluth on June 22, 2022, 08:09:10 PM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on June 22, 2022, 04:49:39 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on June 21, 2022, 10:26:05 PM
The Brewers think it's worth studying replacing the Parkway by the Stadium with an at grade street. It's surprising that this is being considered since that section was completely rebuilt 20 years ago and does a great job funneling game day traffic to the stadium.
The team has recently been pitching ideas about creating an "Lifestyle/ Entertainment District" in the parking lots across Miller Park Brewers Way.
That seems to be the trend lately. The Packers have their Titletown (https://www.titletown.com/). St Louis Cardinals have their Ballpark District (https://www.stlballparkvillage.com/). I think it all started in modern times with the Baltimore Inner Harbor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_Harbor) hosting the Orioles within Camden Yards. Can't blame the Brewers for jumping on that lucrative bandwagon.
We used to pre-game at a bar a couple blocks from Lambeau Field in what is now the Titletown district. That bar is now gone with Hinterland Brewery in its place, which has much better food, much better beer, but is WAY more expensive. And its busy year round, not just game and practice days.
Smart move by sports teams to collect that revenue.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2022, 09:28:04 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 14, 2022, 07:55:43 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 19, 2021, 04:26:16 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on August 19, 2021, 04:18:50 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on March 06, 2019, 03:03:43 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on March 06, 2019, 02:58:37 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 05, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.
There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide. And that area has been growing more and more. Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Using Seven Mile Road interchange would have worked just fine.
Not really.
Why do you say that? It's less than a mile south of where the old interchange was. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used for 27th street traffic.
Look at a map. It is completely inconvenient with the routing 27th Street takes there. Especially considering that growth is likely to continue to occur there. Getting the Elm St interchange built makes perfect sense.
The Seven Mile Road interchange is definitely not a suitable substitute for the former 27th Street one. For one, it involves winding around a busy two-lane frontage road, that gets very busy during the warmer months because of Seven Mile Fair.
It is only marked as WIS 241 because 27th Street becomes the west Frontage Rd., and that's already a state-maintained route anyway. Notice that WIS 241 actually ends just before the Seven Mile interchange, as the SB Frontage Rd. picks up again?
As for accessing 27th St, the new Elm Rd. exit is effective, and will become even more so as businesses start to build in that expanded area.
If I had my way, I would have had the STH 241 designation turn east onto the new W. Elm Rd., and have 241 terminate at the new Exit 324. Unfortunetly, it looks like STH 241's relocated southern terminus will permanently remain at Exit 326.
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 23, 2022, 11:25:22 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2022, 09:28:04 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 14, 2022, 07:55:43 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 19, 2021, 04:26:16 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on August 19, 2021, 04:18:50 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on March 06, 2019, 03:03:43 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on March 06, 2019, 02:58:37 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 05, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.
There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide. And that area has been growing more and more. Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Using Seven Mile Road interchange would have worked just fine.
Not really.
Why do you say that? It's less than a mile south of where the old interchange was. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used for 27th street traffic.
Look at a map. It is completely inconvenient with the routing 27th Street takes there. Especially considering that growth is likely to continue to occur there. Getting the Elm St interchange built makes perfect sense.
The Seven Mile Road interchange is definitely not a suitable substitute for the former 27th Street one. For one, it involves winding around a busy two-lane frontage road, that gets very busy during the warmer months because of Seven Mile Fair.
It is only marked as WIS 241 because 27th Street becomes the west Frontage Rd., and that's already a state-maintained route anyway. Notice that WIS 241 actually ends just before the Seven Mile interchange, as the SB Frontage Rd. picks up again?
As for accessing 27th St, the new Elm Rd. exit is effective, and will become even more so as businesses start to build in that expanded area.
If the state saw it that way, why didn't they just realign 241 onto Elm Rd and have 27th St south of Elm become a county road? Just sayin.
Quote from: on_wisconsin on June 22, 2022, 04:49:39 PM
The team has recently been pitching ideas about creating an "Lifestyle/ Entertainment District" in the parking lots across Miller Park Way Brewers Blvd.
I suppose that would be a better use of the land than just parking; especially with the Menomonee River right there. I'm sure some will complain about the loss of parking and tailgating space, but there'd still be acres and acres of pavement for that. The way the valley has been going through a renaissance since the Millennium, it would create a nice continuation of what's going on there.
That being the case, I think that makes it more essential to maintain the grade separation between all those pedestrians and the cars on 175. It would be annoying to have to pile across a major thoroughfare on a crosswalk instead of the leisurely stroll across an overpass.
Quote from: skluth on June 22, 2022, 08:09:10 PM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on June 22, 2022, 04:49:39 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on June 21, 2022, 10:26:05 PM
The Brewers think it's worth studying replacing the Parkway by the Stadium with an at grade street. It's surprising that this is being considered since that section was completely rebuilt 20 years ago and does a great job funneling game day traffic to the stadium.
The team has recently been pitching ideas about creating an "Lifestyle/ Entertainment District" in the parking lots across Miller Park Brewers Way.
That seems to be the trend lately. The Packers have their Titletown (https://www.titletown.com/). St Louis Cardinals have their Ballpark District (https://www.stlballparkvillage.com/). I think it all started in modern times with the Baltimore Inner Harbor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_Harbor) hosting the Orioles within Camden Yards. Can't blame the Brewers for jumping on that lucrative bandwagon.
Quote from: mgk920 on June 23, 2022, 08:23:10 AM
The Packers based their 'Titletown District' on Patriot Place in Massachusetts.
Mike
Actually, it goes a century back, when the Cubs opened their ballpark in Wrigleyville. Fans could watch the games from their rooftops, and no one in the stands would care. Of course, that all changed when the team started charging the outsiders to see the action, and still they built their own bleachers high above the stadium for that.
Also, I remember hearing that the Red Sox built new seats atop the Green Monster after years of having none there. That clearly was the best thing about the Fenway renovations, and it made an already exciting fan experience even more so.
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 23, 2022, 12:15:17 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 23, 2022, 11:25:22 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2022, 09:28:04 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 14, 2022, 07:55:43 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 19, 2021, 04:26:16 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on August 19, 2021, 04:18:50 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on March 06, 2019, 03:03:43 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on March 06, 2019, 02:58:37 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 05, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.
There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide. And that area has been growing more and more. Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Using Seven Mile Road interchange would have worked just fine.
Not really.
Why do you say that? It's less than a mile south of where the old interchange was. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used for 27th street traffic.
Look at a map. It is completely inconvenient with the routing 27th Street takes there. Especially considering that growth is likely to continue to occur there. Getting the Elm St interchange built makes perfect sense.
The Seven Mile Road interchange is definitely not a suitable substitute for the former 27th Street one. For one, it involves winding around a busy two-lane frontage road, that gets very busy during the warmer months because of Seven Mile Fair.
It is only marked as WIS 241 because 27th Street becomes the west Frontage Rd., and that's already a state-maintained route anyway. Notice that WIS 241 actually ends just before the Seven Mile interchange, as the SB Frontage Rd. picks up again?
As for accessing 27th St, the new Elm Rd. exit is effective, and will become even more so as businesses start to build in that expanded area.
If the state saw it that way, why didn't they just realign 241 onto Elm Rd and have 27th St south of Elm become a county road? Just sayin.
It's likely due to the wierdness about mileage in different counties that WIDOT uses to base these decisions. Relocation would reduce WI-241's mileage in two counties. And both would likely rather have the current route maintained as a state highway than the new route.
And WIDOT signs both Seven Mile and Elm as "To WI-241" on their respective BGS.
241 does at end the interchange - the state puts END markers well ahead of the end (there are a few exceptions)
Packers have "Titletown", Bucks have a shot-up ;) "Deer District" - why not give the Brewers a strip mall called the "Beer Garden"? :bigass:
Quote from: SSOWorld on June 23, 2022, 07:50:00 PM
241 does at end the interchange - the state puts END markers well ahead of the end (there are a few exceptions)
Packers have "Titletown", Bucks have a shot-up ;) "Deer District" - why not give the Brewers a strip mall called the "Beer Garden"? :bigass:
That must've been a recent change. 241 used to end at 7 Mile Rd.
https://goo.gl/maps/MNdRcLs9xbUm6nR66
Quote from: SSOWorld on June 23, 2022, 07:50:00 PM
241 does at end the interchange - the state puts END markers well ahead of the end (there are a few exceptions)
Packers have "Titletown", Bucks have a shot-up ;) "Deer District" - why not give the Brewers a strip mall called the "Beer Garden"? :bigass:
The question is, does the state maintain Seven Mile Road between the two frontage roads and under I-41/94?
Quote from: GeekJedi on June 25, 2022, 11:45:35 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on June 23, 2022, 07:50:00 PM
241 does at end the interchange - the state puts END markers well ahead of the end (there are a few exceptions)
Packers have "Titletown", Bucks have a shot-up ;) "Deer District" - why not give the Brewers a strip mall called the "Beer Garden"? :bigass:
That must've been a recent change. 241 used to end at 7 Mile Rd.
https://goo.gl/maps/MNdRcLs9xbUm6nR66
there was no end sign. ;)
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 23, 2022, 04:59:26 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 23, 2022, 12:15:17 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 23, 2022, 11:25:22 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2022, 09:28:04 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 14, 2022, 07:55:43 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 19, 2021, 04:26:16 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on August 19, 2021, 04:18:50 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on March 06, 2019, 03:03:43 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on March 06, 2019, 02:58:37 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 05, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.
There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide. And that area has been growing more and more. Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Using Seven Mile Road interchange would have worked just fine.
Not really.
Why do you say that? It's less than a mile south of where the old interchange was. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used for 27th street traffic.
Look at a map. It is completely inconvenient with the routing 27th Street takes there. Especially considering that growth is likely to continue to occur there. Getting the Elm St interchange built makes perfect sense.
The Seven Mile Road interchange is definitely not a suitable substitute for the former 27th Street one. For one, it involves winding around a busy two-lane frontage road, that gets very busy during the warmer months because of Seven Mile Fair.
It is only marked as WIS 241 because 27th Street becomes the west Frontage Rd., and that's already a state-maintained route anyway. Notice that WIS 241 actually ends just before the Seven Mile interchange, as the SB Frontage Rd. picks up again?
As for accessing 27th St, the new Elm Rd. exit is effective, and will become even more so as businesses start to build in that expanded area.
If the state saw it that way, why didn't they just realign 241 onto Elm Rd and have 27th St south of Elm become a county road? Just sayin.
It's likely due to the wierdness about mileage in different counties that WIDOT uses to base these decisions. Relocation would reduce WI-241's mileage in two counties. And both would likely rather have the current route maintained as a state highway than the new route.
Maybe but I don't think so because 241's mileage in Milwaukee County wouldn't change much. Elm Rd is about 1/3 mile. 27th St is 1/2 mile. And Racine County would have zero as a result. I think in the days of the old interchange, they may have had 1/4 mile if that.
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 27, 2022, 12:18:37 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 23, 2022, 04:59:26 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 23, 2022, 12:15:17 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 23, 2022, 11:25:22 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2022, 09:28:04 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 14, 2022, 07:55:43 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 19, 2021, 04:26:16 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on August 19, 2021, 04:18:50 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on March 06, 2019, 03:03:43 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on March 06, 2019, 02:58:37 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 05, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.
There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide. And that area has been growing more and more. Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Using Seven Mile Road interchange would have worked just fine.
Not really.
Why do you say that? It's less than a mile south of where the old interchange was. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used for 27th street traffic.
Look at a map. It is completely inconvenient with the routing 27th Street takes there. Especially considering that growth is likely to continue to occur there. Getting the Elm St interchange built makes perfect sense.
The Seven Mile Road interchange is definitely not a suitable substitute for the former 27th Street one. For one, it involves winding around a busy two-lane frontage road, that gets very busy during the warmer months because of Seven Mile Fair.
It is only marked as WIS 241 because 27th Street becomes the west Frontage Rd., and that's already a state-maintained route anyway. Notice that WIS 241 actually ends just before the Seven Mile interchange, as the SB Frontage Rd. picks up again?
As for accessing 27th St, the new Elm Rd. exit is effective, and will become even more so as businesses start to build in that expanded area.
If the state saw it that way, why didn't they just realign 241 onto Elm Rd and have 27th St south of Elm become a county road? Just sayin.
It's likely due to the wierdness about mileage in different counties that WIDOT uses to base these decisions. Relocation would reduce WI-241's mileage in two counties. And both would likely rather have the current route maintained as a state highway than the new route.
Maybe but I don't think so because 241's mileage in Milwaukee County wouldn't change much. Elm Rd is about 1/3 mile. 27th St is 1/2 mile. And Racine County would have zero as a result. I think in the days of the old interchange, they may have had 1/4 mile if that.
Keep in mind, the frontage road in Racine County is actually considered part of I-41/94. Thus, it's already a state highway. Therefore, running WIS 241 along it doesn't make any difference in administered mileage.
And that also explains my theory about WIS 241 ending right before the interchange, where the West Frontage Road picks up and proceeds south from Seven Mile Road.
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 27, 2022, 12:18:37 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 23, 2022, 04:59:26 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 23, 2022, 12:15:17 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 23, 2022, 11:25:22 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2022, 09:28:04 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 14, 2022, 07:55:43 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 19, 2021, 04:26:16 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on August 19, 2021, 04:18:50 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on March 06, 2019, 03:03:43 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on March 06, 2019, 02:58:37 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 05, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.
There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide. And that area has been growing more and more. Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Using Seven Mile Road interchange would have worked just fine.
Not really.
Why do you say that? It's less than a mile south of where the old interchange was. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used for 27th street traffic.
Look at a map. It is completely inconvenient with the routing 27th Street takes there. Especially considering that growth is likely to continue to occur there. Getting the Elm St interchange built makes perfect sense.
The Seven Mile Road interchange is definitely not a suitable substitute for the former 27th Street one. For one, it involves winding around a busy two-lane frontage road, that gets very busy during the warmer months because of Seven Mile Fair.
It is only marked as WIS 241 because 27th Street becomes the west Frontage Rd., and that's already a state-maintained route anyway. Notice that WIS 241 actually ends just before the Seven Mile interchange, as the SB Frontage Rd. picks up again?
As for accessing 27th St, the new Elm Rd. exit is effective, and will become even more so as businesses start to build in that expanded area.
If the state saw it that way, why didn't they just realign 241 onto Elm Rd and have 27th St south of Elm become a county road? Just sayin.
It's likely due to the wierdness about mileage in different counties that WIDOT uses to base these decisions. Relocation would reduce WI-241's mileage in two counties. And both would likely rather have the current route maintained as a state highway than the new route.
Maybe but I don't think so because 241's mileage in Milwaukee County wouldn't change much. Elm Rd is about 1/3 mile. 27th St is 1/2 mile. And Racine County would have zero as a result. I think in the days of the old interchange, they may have had 1/4 mile if that.
This doesn't refute anything I said.
Regardless, my overall point is that WIDOT's signing of WI-241 has little to do with what their "preferred route" to get from I-41/94 to South 27th Street.
I didn't know if this should have its own thread. Mods, feel free to move it if you like.
https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/environmental-advocacy-group-leads-effort-to-demolish-lake-interchange-in-milwaukee
Quote
Environmental advocacy group leads effort to demolish Lake Interchange in Milwaukee
The grassroots effort comes as the Wisconsin Department of Transportation takes its first steps to replace aging bridges in the interchange.
By: Madison GoldbeckPosted at 6:38 PM, Sep 06, 2022 and last updated 6:38 PM, Sep 06, 2022
MILWAUKEE – An environmental advocacy group is leading an effort to demolish the Lake Interchange in downtown Milwaukee to clear land for development, according to our partners at the Milwaukee Business Journal.
The grassroots effort from 1000 Friends of Wisconsin comes as the Wisconsin Department of Transportation (DOT) takes its first steps to replace aging bridges in the interchange.
Last week the DOT opened its website to plan for the future of 28 bridges connecting east-west Interchange 794 downtown to the northern edge of the Hoan Bridge, as well as off-ramps onto local streets, the Milwaukee Business Journal reports. The central links, which date to the mid-1970s, need a full rebuild in order to remain safe. In December of 2021, DOT officials estimated the rebuild would cost $300 million.
The cost sparked "a lot of grassroots local interest," transportation policy director Gregg May told the Milwaukee Business Journal. May has since helped organize the "Rethink 794 in MKE, Reconnect the Grid!" effort. It proposes removing the new and old I-794 bridges from Sixth Street on the west and East Chicago Street on the south, the Milwaukee Business Journal reports. May said Clybourn Street could become a two-way boulevard and make the same connection between the remaining Hoan Bridge, and Marquette Interchange to the west.
This would open nearly 32.5 acres for new development, and according to studies the group performed with a volunteer broker, would be valued at more than $1 billion.
"Removing highways can be cheaper than repairing or replacing them," May told the Milwaukee Business Journal. "Just because we have spent a lot of money on this project doesn't mean it should stick around."
The DOT does not expect to finalize a plan until November 2023 with the earliest construction beginning in 2025. A public comment period is yet to come.
Quote from: rte66man on September 07, 2022, 10:31:46 AM
I didn't know if this should have its own thread. Mods, feel free to move it if you like.
https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/environmental-advocacy-group-leads-effort-to-demolish-lake-interchange-in-milwaukee
Quote
Environmental advocacy group leads effort to demolish Lake Interchange in Milwaukee
The grassroots effort comes as the Wisconsin Department of Transportation takes its first steps to replace aging bridges in the interchange.
By: Madison GoldbeckPosted at 6:38 PM, Sep 06, 2022 and last updated 6:38 PM, Sep 06, 2022
MILWAUKEE – An environmental advocacy group is leading an effort to demolish the Lake Interchange in downtown Milwaukee to clear land for development, according to our partners at the Milwaukee Business Journal.
The grassroots effort from 1000 Friends of Wisconsin comes as the Wisconsin Department of Transportation (DOT) takes its first steps to replace aging bridges in the interchange.
Last week the DOT opened its website to plan for the future of 28 bridges connecting east-west Interchange 794 downtown to the northern edge of the Hoan Bridge, as well as off-ramps onto local streets, the Milwaukee Business Journal reports. The central links, which date to the mid-1970s, need a full rebuild in order to remain safe. In December of 2021, DOT officials estimated the rebuild would cost $300 million.
The cost sparked "a lot of grassroots local interest," transportation policy director Gregg May told the Milwaukee Business Journal. May has since helped organize the "Rethink 794 in MKE, Reconnect the Grid!" effort. It proposes removing the new and old I-794 bridges from Sixth Street on the west and East Chicago Street on the south, the Milwaukee Business Journal reports. May said Clybourn Street could become a two-way boulevard and make the same connection between the remaining Hoan Bridge, and Marquette Interchange to the west.
This would open nearly 32.5 acres for new development, and according to studies the group performed with a volunteer broker, would be valued at more than $1 billion.
"Removing highways can be cheaper than repairing or replacing them," May told the Milwaukee Business Journal. "Just because we have spent a lot of money on this project doesn't mean it should stick around."
The DOT does not expect to finalize a plan until November 2023 with the earliest construction beginning in 2025. A public comment period is yet to come.
I am fully in support of this!
Not the first time it has been proposed to demolish that stretch of 794. So here we go again.
This came up 20 years ago as planning started to rebuild the Marquette Interchange.
It came up again ~10 years ago during planning to resurface the Hoan and reconfigure the Lake Interchange.
What makes this viable in my mind is that very little traffic on this freeway is actually thru traffic. Nearly everyone has an origin/destination somewhere downtown or on the lakefront so really the freeway is primarily only being used to spare a couple of minutes for that traffic. While there is a continuous freeway, functionally it's basically another Park East in terms of the way it is used: a long off-ramp.
I am skeptical of how in demand the potential land will be for redevelopment in the intermediate term. It took a decade before things started filling in the blocks vacated by the Park East, and some still sit vacant 20 year later.
The block vacated by the removed pigtail onramp at Michigan and Lovell remains undeveloped more than 15 years later.
Perhaps most obnoxiously, the supposedly super-valuable chunk of land freed up by shifting around the ramps at the Lake Interchange many years ago now still is vacant. What's the deal there? What happened to all the renderings of a skyscraper?
On top of that, downtown Milwaukee is still lousy with surface parking lots that could be utilized far more effectively for a dense, urban environment.
All this suggests to me that leveling 794 means that 30-whatever acres of land will sit empty for at least a decade. Evidence suggests the market for downtown real estate isn't "hot" enough to do anything with that land. It'll be a patch of bare ground where the gulls shit, just like the Park East.
Unless someone comes up with a concrete plan to actually use that land before we commit to smashing viaducts. That would be novel! Not to mention it would give fuel to the concept of downgrading these types of urban freeway spurs if folks could see buildings going up as soon as the freeway comes down. Much better look than having those parcels remain barren wastelands for an entire generation.
One can also trace most of the former Chicago and Northwestern Railway's track routing showing how they got to their former Lakefront Station south of the Summerfest Grounds (their *gorgeous* station itself was off of the east end of Wisconsin Ave) on current satellite images. that station was removed by the early-mid 1960s.
The best option that I recently saw for I-794 there is an interstate standard curve that was drawn about 3-5 years ago. It maintains the connections and also has lots of surplus ROW that can be sold off for development. Remember that until the early 1960s, the Summerfest Grounds itself was a US Military base.
Mike
I would oppose demolishing the Lake Interchange. After all, they just reconfigured where the ramps terminate. I would support moving the ramps of the Lake Interchange (and the Jackson St./Van Buren St. interchange) to the right-hand side. I would also support making 794 three lanes in both directions through those interchanges.
I think they should just tear down I-794. It really is an eyesore that acts as a barrier between downtown and the Third Ward. I think triplemultiplex is right that the developmental opportunities are being overstated in the short term, but in the long term this would be a much better option than replacing as is.
Getting rid of the Park East was a fantastic development for the north side of downtown. That neighborhood has grown tremendously in every way. And remember that one of the reasons that corridor took so long to develop was due to both a huge real estate recession and overly restrictive development covenants initially put in place by Milwaukee County.
In the long run, the development will happen. A much better alternative than rebuilding the entire interstate.
I haven't been to Milwaukee's lakefront since seeing Jimmy Buffett at Summerfest in 1987 so feel free to criticize anything that is out of date.
I think I-794 should continue in its current ROW from the Marquette Interchange to and including the Hoan Bridge. I also think much of the Lake Interchange should be torn down. There are far more ramps there than needed. Keep the ramps between the bridge and Clybourn and keep one set of ramps going to/from the west, most likely the Jackson St ramps; this leaves some left side on/off ramps but I don't think it will matter much given current traffic patterns. The remaining freed-up land can still be developed. The comparison to the Park Freeway is irrelevant as the land near the lake is potentially far more valuable than land along the northwest edge of downtown and, despite claims above, Park East is at least 90% developed and what's left is now pretty valuable; 1.3 acres there recently sold for $5M (https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2022/05/04/park-east-land-sale/) for a residential development. Imagine how much property might be sold for a high-rise overlooking both the Summerfest Grounds and Lake Michigan (and the subsequent property tax haul).
OTOH, I have no problem with WI 794 being converted to a surface boulevard south of Carferry Drive. And maybe leave a ramp to nowhere for Illinois Nazis to fly off (https://youtu.be/eGu2camh0WA).
One BILLION dollars worth of land? Yeah, tear that thing down. Turn 794 into a boulevard that ends at Milwaukee St, and make the Hoan Bridge an extension of Lincoln Memorial.
I'm not a fan of this for one reason: so much of Milwaukee is blighted right now. You just gonna stick some nice high-priced stuff in one corner and let everything else rot? No. Fix your city from the inside out first.
Quote from: Alps on September 07, 2022, 10:40:52 PM
I'm not a fan of this for one reason: so much of Milwaukee is blighted right now. You just gonna stick some nice high-priced stuff in one corner and let everything else rot? No. Fix your city from the inside out first.
You think Milwaukee is blighted now? You should have seen it a generation ago. Honestly, this sounds like a statement made by someone who doesn't understand how the city has positively changed. I went to Marquette 30+ years ago, and there are parts of the city that have been completely transformed. Places that I was told to never go as a student where people are now living, working and recreating.
Furthermore, tearing down this freeway is PART of fixing the city from the "inside out." Encouraging additional investment, additional places for people to live and work instead of hightailing it out to the suburbs like they did when I was a young professional, is part of that. The city still has fixes to make, but your statement is pretty ignorant of what has already occurred.
Quote from: rte66man on September 07, 2022, 10:31:46 AM
I didn't know if this should have its own thread. Mods, feel free to move it if you like.
https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/environmental-advocacy-group-leads-effort-to-demolish-lake-interchange-in-milwaukee
Quote
Environmental advocacy group leads effort to demolish Lake Interchange in Milwaukee
The grassroots effort comes as the Wisconsin Department of Transportation takes its first steps to replace aging bridges in the interchange.
By: Madison GoldbeckPosted at 6:38 PM, Sep 06, 2022 and last updated 6:38 PM, Sep 06, 2022
MILWAUKEE – An environmental advocacy group is leading an effort to demolish the Lake Interchange in downtown Milwaukee to clear land for development, according to our partners at the Milwaukee Business Journal.
The grassroots effort from 1000 Friends of Wisconsin comes as the Wisconsin Department of Transportation (DOT) takes its first steps to replace aging bridges in the interchange.
Last week the DOT opened its website to plan for the future of 28 bridges connecting east-west Interchange 794 downtown to the northern edge of the Hoan Bridge, as well as off-ramps onto local streets, the Milwaukee Business Journal reports. The central links, which date to the mid-1970s, need a full rebuild in order to remain safe. In December of 2021, DOT officials estimated the rebuild would cost $300 million.
The cost sparked "a lot of grassroots local interest," transportation policy director Gregg May told the Milwaukee Business Journal. May has since helped organize the "Rethink 794 in MKE, Reconnect the Grid!" effort. It proposes removing the new and old I-794 bridges from Sixth Street on the west and East Chicago Street on the south, the Milwaukee Business Journal reports. May said Clybourn Street could become a two-way boulevard and make the same connection between the remaining Hoan Bridge, and Marquette Interchange to the west.
This would open nearly 32.5 acres for new development, and according to studies the group performed with a volunteer broker, would be valued at more than $1 billion.
"Removing highways can be cheaper than repairing or replacing them," May told the Milwaukee Business Journal. "Just because we have spent a lot of money on this project doesn't mean it should stick around."
The DOT does not expect to finalize a plan until November 2023 with the earliest construction beginning in 2025. A public comment period is yet to come.
Honestly, given what I've heard about the Park East Freeway, I think they need to give I-794 the old McKinley Avenue treatment. It's never been busy when I've been on it, almost everybody gets off before the Hoan, and it's a huge eyesore that divides the historic third ward from downtown,
a division caused by the freeway.The only concern I'd have is with trucks trying to get to the Port of Milwaukee. The Lake Parkway southward extension might help, but it would be somewhat painful for all of the heavy truck traffic to go through downtown on a surface level boulevard.
In regards to the real estate use, I honestly wouldn't even mind if there weren't any businesses at all on the right of way; it would be very cool if it were a public park in the median of the boulevard.
If this were fictional highways, I'd personally propose putting the thing in a trench, or "big digging" it out so we can have our cake and eat it too. This is obviously expensive, impractical, and makes connecting to the Hoan difficult.
Also, out of curiosity, would they continue to have the boulevard run directly onto the Hoan, or would they put a massive intersection at the end of the boulevard with Lincoln Memorial Drive, and have Lincoln Memorial Drive run over the bridge?
Quote from: Hobart on September 08, 2022, 01:20:30 PM
The only concern I'd have is with trucks trying to get to the Port of Milwaukee. The Lake Parkway southward extension might help, but it would be somewhat painful for all of the heavy truck traffic to go through downtown on a surface level boulevard.
Thought about mentioning that topic in my initial reply. Useful as the Port of Milwaukee is, it ain't exactly Long Beach, so there's not the volume of trucks for that to be super concerning. Especially since I think many, if not most, trucks use Becher Street from 43/94 to get to their port destinations anyway.
Quote from: Hobart on September 08, 2022, 01:20:30 PMAlso, out of curiosity, would they continue to have the boulevard run directly onto the Hoan, or would they put a massive intersection at the end of the boulevard with Lincoln Memorial Drive, and have Lincoln Memorial Drive run over the bridge?
Big ass roundabout!!
:bigass: :bigass:
I'd be curious to see if they could come up with a way to feed the Jackson & Van Buren without forcing cars to use the proposed Clybourn boulevard. Something like the east end of St. Paul becoming an onramp curving onto the Hoan and then a NB roadway paralleling it and curving to flow into Van Buren.
I might try and sketch something up with what I'm thinking.
Naturally, this would mean the death of 794 as a 3DI. With WI 794 already in existence as the Lake Parkway, I would expect that designation to get extended north over the Hoan and turn west at Clybourn to the remaining stub feeding the Marquette Interchange.
That is, if they end up going forward with this idea. It's going to be years before any decision is made and up to a decade before anything happens, I predict. So lots of time for things to shift one way or another. Think about how much has changed since planning started to rebuild the Marquette. And then how much has changed since this freeway was first constructed. That 3rd Ward was very "rust-belty" and the lakefront was an under-utilized military installation in the 60's. The Milwaukee River seemed hopelessly polluted.
Milwaukee of 2030 is not the Milwaukee of 2000 or the Milwaukee of 1970. Previous attempts to rip down 794 fizzled for various reasons, but things feel different now. I'd put the odds of it actually happening at over 50% this time. It will be interesting to follow.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on September 08, 2022, 02:56:45 PM
Quote from: Hobart on September 08, 2022, 01:20:30 PM
The only concern I'd have is with trucks trying to get to the Port of Milwaukee. The Lake Parkway southward extension might help, but it would be somewhat painful for all of the heavy truck traffic to go through downtown on a surface level boulevard.
Thought about mentioning that topic in my initial reply. Useful as the Port of Milwaukee is, it ain't exactly Long Beach, so there's not the volume of trucks for that to be super concerning. Especially since I think many, if not most, trucks use Becher Street from 43/94 to get to their port destinations anyway.
Quote from: Hobart on September 08, 2022, 01:20:30 PMAlso, out of curiosity, would they continue to have the boulevard run directly onto the Hoan, or would they put a massive intersection at the end of the boulevard with Lincoln Memorial Drive, and have Lincoln Memorial Drive run over the bridge?
Big ass roundabout!!
:bigass: :bigass:
I'd be curious to see if they could come up with a way to feed the Jackson & Van Buren without forcing cars to use the proposed Clybourn boulevard. Something like the east end of St. Paul becoming an onramp curving onto the Hoan and then a NB roadway paralleling it and curving to flow into Van Buren.
I might try and sketch something up with what I'm thinking.
Naturally, this would mean the death of 794 as a 3DI. With WI 794 already in existence as the Lake Parkway, I would expect that designation to get extended north over the Hoan and turn west at Clybourn to the remaining stub feeding the Marquette Interchange.
That is, if they end up going forward with this idea. It's going to be years before any decision is made and up to a decade before anything happens, I predict. So lots of time for things to shift one way or another. Think about how much has changed since planning started to rebuild the Marquette. And then how much has changed since this freeway was first constructed. That 3rd Ward was very "rust-belty" and the lakefront was an under-utilized military installation in the 60's. The Milwaukee River seemed hopelessly polluted.
Milwaukee of 2030 is not the Milwaukee of 2000 or the Milwaukee of 1970. Previous attempts to rip down 794 fizzled for various reasons, but things feel different now. I'd put the odds of it actually happening at over 50% this time. It will be interesting to follow.
I don't think it would necessarily be the end of I-794 considering that I-175 and I-375 in St Pete are pretty short. I like the Big Roundabout idea there actually, though it might be hell when the big concerts let out from Summerfest.
I would prefer 794 not to be dismantled. Milwaukee doesn't have great public transit to make-up for the difference and 94 is busy enough as it is. I'd rather have the traffic use highways than clog up surface streets. 794 is not just a short freeway stub, it's a connection to the lakeshore areas further south, even down to Racine County.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on September 12, 2022, 04:49:14 PM
I would prefer 794 not to be dismantled. Milwaukee doesn't have great public transit to make-up for the difference and 94 is busy enough as it is. I'd rather have the traffic use highways than clog up surface streets. 794 is not just a short freeway stub, it's a connection to the lakeshore areas further south, even down to Racine County.
Agreed. I also think that it benefits the residents of Bay View and that area. It can be a challenge to get to that area by going south on 94 then east on surface streets. That was the whole reason for opening the Lake Parkway in the first place.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on September 12, 2022, 04:49:14 PM
I would prefer 794 not to be dismantled. Milwaukee doesn't have great public transit to make-up for the difference and 94 is busy enough as it is. I'd rather have the traffic use highways than clog up surface streets. 794 is not just a short freeway stub, it's a connection to the lakeshore areas further south, even down to Racine County.
I thought that was a dead issue long ago.
Quote from: dvferyance on September 19, 2022, 04:35:19 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on September 12, 2022, 04:49:14 PM
I would prefer 794 not to be dismantled. Milwaukee doesn't have great public transit to make-up for the difference and 94 is busy enough as it is. I'd rather have the traffic use highways than clog up surface streets. 794 is not just a short freeway stub, it's a connection to the lakeshore areas further south, even down to Racine County.
I thought that was a dead issue long ago.
There are rumblings again.
Quote from: GeekJedi on September 19, 2022, 03:35:46 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on September 12, 2022, 04:49:14 PM
I would prefer 794 not to be dismantled. Milwaukee doesn't have great public transit to make-up for the difference and 94 is busy enough as it is. I'd rather have the traffic use highways than clog up surface streets. 794 is not just a short freeway stub, it's a connection to the lakeshore areas further south, even down to Racine County.
Agreed. I also think that it benefits the residents of Bay View and that area. It can be a challenge to get to that area by going south on 94 then east on surface streets. That was the whole reason for opening the Lake Parkway in the first place.
A removal of I-794 between the Marquette wouldn't mean a removal of the bridge or the Lake Parkway. You would just need to drive on a surface street for a few blocks.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 20, 2022, 08:24:00 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on September 19, 2022, 03:35:46 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on September 12, 2022, 04:49:14 PM
I would prefer 794 not to be dismantled. Milwaukee doesn't have great public transit to make-up for the difference and 94 is busy enough as it is. I'd rather have the traffic use highways than clog up surface streets. 794 is not just a short freeway stub, it's a connection to the lakeshore areas further south, even down to Racine County.
Agreed. I also think that it benefits the residents of Bay View and that area. It can be a challenge to get to that area by going south on 94 then east on surface streets. That was the whole reason for opening the Lake Parkway in the first place.
A removal of I-794 between the Marquette wouldn't mean a removal of the bridge or the Lake Parkway. You would just need to drive on a surface street for a few blocks.
...which would be a step backwards. You'd end up with a freeway stub that's completely disconnected. I would not support that.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on September 20, 2022, 08:33:57 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 20, 2022, 08:24:00 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on September 19, 2022, 03:35:46 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on September 12, 2022, 04:49:14 PM
I would prefer 794 not to be dismantled. Milwaukee doesn't have great public transit to make-up for the difference and 94 is busy enough as it is. I'd rather have the traffic use highways than clog up surface streets. 794 is not just a short freeway stub, it's a connection to the lakeshore areas further south, even down to Racine County.
Agreed. I also think that it benefits the residents of Bay View and that area. It can be a challenge to get to that area by going south on 94 then east on surface streets. That was the whole reason for opening the Lake Parkway in the first place.
A removal of I-794 between the Marquette wouldn't mean a removal of the bridge or the Lake Parkway. You would just need to drive on a surface street for a few blocks.
...which would be a step backwards. You'd end up with a freeway stub that's completely disconnected. I would not support that.
Replacing I-794 will be expensive. This is an option that will not only be less expensive but lead to greater development opportunities downtown and in the Third Ward. Having a bridge that is still freeway separated from that is hardly a reason not to move forward with that.
With all the attention to the 4 to 6 expansion north of I-43, this project flew under my radar:
https://projects.511wi.gov/43milw/full-project-overview/ (https://projects.511wi.gov/43milw/full-project-overview/)
I had assumed they were just replacing the bridges over the Milwaukee River and didn't realize the were removing the viaduct that used to span railyards between Capitol and Hampton. I drove through last weekend and was surprised to find myself 'on the ground' going SB.
Up the road on the expansion project, it seems like all the early action is over the county line in Mequon. Which I found interesting in terms of staging because I figured it would make more sense to work from south to north. That way, the third lane can be opened continuous with the existing six lane cross section south of Silver Spring. And also the most inadequate portion of the corridor is from Silver Spring to Brown Deer, so it's annoying to see that lingering another construction season. But what do I know about staging? I'm just an armchair observer.
It makes sense to remove the bridges since the railyard is gone. The embankment will be a lot cheaper to maintain.
This belongs in the Milwaukee Freeways discussion, not the statewide garbage bin.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 20, 2022, 01:48:17 PM
1,000 Friends of Wisconsin, a land use advocacy group, released their thoughts on replacing I-794 in Milwaukee with a surface boulevard. "Rethink 794."
https://www.rethink794.com/
Trying to shunt this line of discussion to this thread, where it fits better.
The site is worth clicking around on because they've got some interesting historic low-angle aerial photography of different freeway stuff around downtown. I don't think I've seen an image of the r/w cleared through to the bluff above the lake for the Park East before, for example.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/f5a371_7e94dcafacf14012b2e7f9765b80e511~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_339,h_647,al_c,lg_1,q_80,enc_auto/ParkEastEastPointeBeforeAfter.jpg)
And they totally cite Chris Bessert's Wisconsin Highways page in their history section about 794.
I do have to chuckle at this rendering of the Lake Interchange area stuffed to the brim with new skyscrapers:
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/ac9b1e_5727fef25974473582e306a150869920~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_460,h_560,al_c,q_80,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01,enc_auto/4%20-%20Rethink%20794%20view%20from%20Lake%20Michigan%20after.jpg)
I don't think there is that much demand for downtown real estate to build 7 new skyscrapers, including a new tallest building in the city, it would seem. Who's gonna live/work there? More high end second condos for millionaires and empty office space because everyone works from home? Let's be realistic. It will mostly be 4-10 story mixed use structures with one or two more generic condo towers.
My opinion on 794 has not changed. It's a useful connector freeway that should remain. Since the anti-freeway crowd will continue advocate for demoing highways, I'm going to advocate for maintaining highways with some exceptions.
It'd be cool to see a project to tunnel under the airport and connect the 119 to 794. Maybe they could toll it to help fund it and expand the existing sections to 6 lanes.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 14, 2022, 12:25:19 AM
It'd be cool to see a project to tunnel under the airport and connect the 119 to 794. Maybe they could toll it to help fund it and expand the existing sections to 6 lanes.
Lol what? How could that possibly be viable?
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 14, 2022, 12:25:19 AM
It'd be cool to see a project to tunnel under the airport and connect the 119 to 794. Maybe they could toll it to help fund it and expand the existing sections to 6 lanes.
Why? What purpose would that even serve? It's easy enough to jog over there on College or Layton. 794's main purpose is to connect the lakefront areas with downtown without using 94, so why would someone on 94 already really want to use this?
Quote from: JoePCool14 on November 14, 2022, 08:54:00 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 14, 2022, 12:25:19 AM
It'd be cool to see a project to tunnel under the airport and connect the 119 to 794. Maybe they could toll it to help fund it and expand the existing sections to 6 lanes.
Why? What purpose would that even serve? It's easy enough to jog over there on College or Layton. 794's main purpose is to connect the lakefront areas with downtown without using 94, so why would someone on 94 already really want to use this?
Even more so, I-794 (south)'s original purpose was to be another six lane connection between metro Milwaukee and Chicagoland, operating in parallel with I-94.
Mike
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 14, 2022, 12:25:19 AM
It'd be cool to see a project to tunnel under the airport and connect the 119 to 794. Maybe they could toll it to help fund it and expand the existing sections to 6 lanes.
That makes no sense. I've never seen any traffic tie-ups on any of the roads around the airport, especially after the Mitchell Interchange and I-94 widening project.
For 794 access to the airport, Layton and College Avenues work quite well.
Besides, Howell Avenue is now home to a number of privately-owned parking lots and hotels.
WIS 794 works well for access to Bayview, St. Francis, Cudahy and other south shore areas. It's the reason they finally built out the Lake Parkway.
Quote from: mgk920 on November 14, 2022, 11:28:17 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on November 14, 2022, 08:54:00 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 14, 2022, 12:25:19 AM
It'd be cool to see a project to tunnel under the airport and connect the 119 to 794. Maybe they could toll it to help fund it and expand the existing sections to 6 lanes.
Why? What purpose would that even serve? It's easy enough to jog over there on College or Layton. 794's main purpose is to connect the lakefront areas with downtown without using 94, so why would someone on 94 already really want to use this?
Even more so, I-794 (south)'s original purpose was to be another six lane connection between metro Milwaukee and Chicagoland, operating in parallel with I-94.
Mike
I don't recall hearing I/WI-794 ever being planned as going to Chicago. Maybe to better connect Racine and Kenosha since I-94 bypasses both. But I don't remember it as anything more than to connect Cudahy, South Milwaukee, and the rest of the South Shore to downtown.
Quote from: skluth on November 14, 2022, 11:45:05 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on November 14, 2022, 11:28:17 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on November 14, 2022, 08:54:00 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 14, 2022, 12:25:19 AM
It'd be cool to see a project to tunnel under the airport and connect the 119 to 794. Maybe they could toll it to help fund it and expand the existing sections to 6 lanes.
Why? What purpose would that even serve? It's easy enough to jog over there on College or Layton. 794's main purpose is to connect the lakefront areas with downtown without using 94, so why would someone on 94 already really want to use this?
Even more so, I-794 (south)'s original purpose was to be another six lane connection between metro Milwaukee and Chicagoland, operating in parallel with I-94.
Mike
I don't recall hearing I/WI-794 ever being planned as going to Chicago. Maybe to better connect Racine and Kenosha since I-94 bypasses both. But I don't remember it as anything more than to connect Cudahy, South Milwaukee, and the rest of the South Shore to downtown.
All the way down to the Amstutz Expressway and that at least to US-41 / maybe some link to I-94 (toll part)
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on November 14, 2022, 12:24:18 PM
Quote from: skluth on November 14, 2022, 11:45:05 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on November 14, 2022, 11:28:17 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on November 14, 2022, 08:54:00 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 14, 2022, 12:25:19 AM
It'd be cool to see a project to tunnel under the airport and connect the 119 to 794. Maybe they could toll it to help fund it and expand the existing sections to 6 lanes.
Why? What purpose would that even serve? It's easy enough to jog over there on College or Layton. 794's main purpose is to connect the lakefront areas with downtown without using 94, so why would someone on 94 already really want to use this?
Even more so, I-794 (south)'s original purpose was to be another six lane connection between metro Milwaukee and Chicagoland, operating in parallel with I-94.
Mike
I don't recall hearing I/WI-794 ever being planned as going to Chicago. Maybe to better connect Racine and Kenosha since I-94 bypasses both. But I don't remember it as anything more than to connect Cudahy, South Milwaukee, and the rest of the South Shore to downtown.
All the way down to the Amstutz Expressway and that at least to US-41 / maybe some link to I-94 (toll part)
Imagine if that had been fully built out. I know 94 is busy, but I can't see a second freeway between Milwaukee and Chicago being necessary.
Those were heady days and planners in the 50s/60s had every reason to believe Racine and Kenosha would keep growing instead of getting caught up in the Rust Belt. I assume they thought of this uber-vision of the Lake Freeway would serve more inter-city traffic while I-94 handled the long distance travelers.
Quote from: FightingIrish on November 14, 2022, 11:35:16 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 14, 2022, 12:25:19 AM
It'd be cool to see a project to tunnel under the airport and connect the 119 to 794. Maybe they could toll it to help fund it and expand the existing sections to 6 lanes.
That makes no sense. I've never seen any traffic tie-ups on any of the roads around the airport, especially after the Mitchell Interchange and I-94 widening project.
For 794 access to the airport, Layton and College Avenues work quite well.
Besides, Howell Avenue is now home to a number of privately-owned parking lots and hotels.
WIS 794 works well for access to Bayview, St. Francis, Cudahy and other south shore areas. It's the reason they finally built out the Lake Parkway.
Granted, I've never been to Milwaukee so this is my Google Maps City Planning lol but it seems like it could be a useful connection extending I-794 and creating an alternative route for traffic to and from downtown when I-94 gets backed up.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 14, 2022, 04:29:02 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on November 14, 2022, 11:35:16 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 14, 2022, 12:25:19 AM
It'd be cool to see a project to tunnel under the airport and connect the 119 to 794. Maybe they could toll it to help fund it and expand the existing sections to 6 lanes.
That makes no sense. I've never seen any traffic tie-ups on any of the roads around the airport, especially after the Mitchell Interchange and I-94 widening project.
For 794 access to the airport, Layton and College Avenues work quite well.
Besides, Howell Avenue is now home to a number of privately-owned parking lots and hotels.
WIS 794 works well for access to Bayview, St. Francis, Cudahy and other south shore areas. It's the reason they finally built out the Lake Parkway.
Granted, I've never been to Milwaukee so this is my Google Maps City Planning lol but it seems like it could be a useful connection extending I-794 and creating an alternative route for traffic to and from downtown when I-94 gets backed up.
I-94 rarely gets THAT backed up where such an alternative is needed, but also tunneling under the airport would be a massive cost that would never been recovered. I mean, you could just run WI-794 east along College to I-94 if you wanted to sign such an alternative.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 14, 2022, 04:29:02 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on November 14, 2022, 11:35:16 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 14, 2022, 12:25:19 AM
It’d be cool to see a project to tunnel under the airport and connect the 119 to 794. Maybe they could toll it to help fund it and expand the existing sections to 6 lanes.
That makes no sense. I've never seen any traffic tie-ups on any of the roads around the airport, especially after the Mitchell Interchange and I-94 widening project.
For 794 access to the airport, Layton and College Avenues work quite well.
Besides, Howell Avenue is now home to a number of privately-owned parking lots and hotels.
WIS 794 works well for access to Bayview, St. Francis, Cudahy and other south shore areas. It's the reason they finally built out the Lake Parkway.
Granted, I’ve never been to Milwaukee so this is my Google Maps City Planning lol but it seems like it could be a useful connection extending I-794 and creating an alternative route for traffic to and from downtown when I-94 gets backed up.
That's alright. I've used 794 a lot to go between Racine and Milwaukee. This is getting into fictional territory, but all I'd like to see 794 extended to all the way down Pennsylvania Ave south to WI-100. It would be great to see an extended freeway/expressway, but I think I'd just want WisDOT to take the road over to increase the speed limits to something more reasonable. South Milwaukee and Oak Creek are adamant about 25 for a significant portion for no good reason.
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on November 14, 2022, 12:24:18 PM
Quote from: skluth on November 14, 2022, 11:45:05 AM
I don't recall hearing I/WI-794 ever being planned as going to Chicago. Maybe to better connect Racine and Kenosha since I-94 bypasses both. But I don't remember it as anything more than to connect Cudahy, South Milwaukee, and the rest of the South Shore to downtown.
All the way down to the Amstutz Expressway and that at least to US-41 / maybe some link to I-94 (toll part)
The Lake Freeway was to tie into an upgraded US 41 in Illinois, not the Amstutz. The connection is specifically mentioned on Page 36 (46/86 if using the pdf page numbers) of the CATS 1971 Interim Transportation Plan - see https://datahub.cmap.illinois.gov/dataset/a870d8bc-7e12-43ab-9626-71a25107beb7/resource/188a42fc-e4f9-42a2-b218-7dcb66a29725/download/InterimPlan1971.pdf (https://datahub.cmap.illinois.gov/dataset/a870d8bc-7e12-43ab-9626-71a25107beb7/resource/188a42fc-e4f9-42a2-b218-7dcb66a29725/download/InterimPlan1971.pdf). There are a couple maps out there (some of which will show up on IDOT plan cover sheets) that show the Lake Freeway tying into the I-94/US 41 split near the Wisconsin Boundary after the US 41 freeway in Lake County were cancelled.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on November 14, 2022, 05:04:35 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 14, 2022, 04:29:02 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on November 14, 2022, 11:35:16 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 14, 2022, 12:25:19 AM
It'd be cool to see a project to tunnel under the airport and connect the 119 to 794. Maybe they could toll it to help fund it and expand the existing sections to 6 lanes.
That makes no sense. I've never seen any traffic tie-ups on any of the roads around the airport, especially after the Mitchell Interchange and I-94 widening project.
For 794 access to the airport, Layton and College Avenues work quite well.
Besides, Howell Avenue is now home to a number of privately-owned parking lots and hotels.
WIS 794 works well for access to Bayview, St. Francis, Cudahy and other south shore areas. It's the reason they finally built out the Lake Parkway.
Granted, I've never been to Milwaukee so this is my Google Maps City Planning lol but it seems like it could be a useful connection extending I-794 and creating an alternative route for traffic to and from downtown when I-94 gets backed up.
That's alright. I've used 794 a lot to go between Racine and Milwaukee. This is getting into fictional territory, but all I'd to see 794 extended to all the way down Pennsylvania Ave south to WI-100. It would be great to see an extended freeway/expressway, but I think I'd just want WisDOT to take the road over to increase the speed limits to something more reasonable. South Milwaukee and Oak Creek are adamant about 25 for a significant portion for no good reason.
I need to get up there and check it out. Milwaukee seems like a criminally underrated city for some reason.
Milwaukee is a fascinating place for highway history. Stub ramps and tear-downs, but also sections of freeway rebuilt very well in this century. Rail transit that was torn out in favor of freeways mid-20th century, an old freeway proposal that eventually came to life as a 'parkway', an odd penchant for interchanges that look like this. (http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=42.96289,-447.94853&z=16&t=S)
And if you like beer, they got you covered. Unlike out west, it's not mostly IPAs at all the craft breweries. :-D
Yeah I'm one of the oddballs who can't stand dark beers although every now and then I'll go for a Dunkel of some kind. Thanks for the fascinating info I plan on checking it out in 23'.
IPAs suck. They only exist because the British Navy needed a beer that could survive the journey from England to India without spoiling and adding more hops than necessary for a good beer was the only way for the beer to survive the months-long journey in the days of sailing. I'm not big on dark beers either. Fortunately my Wisconsin heritage means I grew up drinking pilsners and lagers as the Great Spaghetti Monster in the sky intended. I'm glad Wisconsin's new smaller breweries have mostly continued that tradition.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 15, 2022, 02:26:18 PM
Milwaukee is a fascinating place for highway history. Stub ramps and tear-downs, but also sections of freeway rebuilt very well in this century. Rail transit that was torn out in favor of freeways mid-20th century, an old freeway proposal that eventually came to life as a 'parkway', an odd penchant for interchanges that look like this. (http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=42.96289,-447.94853&z=16&t=S)
And if you like beer, they got you covered. Unlike out west, it's not mostly IPAs at all the craft breweries. :-D
Scroll a mile west of there and there's an abandoned interchange with what was originally intended to be the Stadium Freeway. It's now a park n' ride, but completely inaccessible from the freeway. A few of the ramps are still there, but slowly being reclaimed by nature.
BTW, the freeway is a very rare occurrence of a triple interstate multiplex I-41, I-43 and I-894 (also US 41). And two of the routes are going in opposite directions.
Yea, one of two interstate triplexes (both currently in Wisconsin) and one of the two 'wrong way' pairings of I-routes (the other being in Virginia).
:nod:
Mike
Quote from: FightingIrish on November 15, 2022, 06:30:09 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 15, 2022, 02:26:18 PM
Milwaukee is a fascinating place for highway history. Stub ramps and tear-downs, but also sections of freeway rebuilt very well in this century. Rail transit that was torn out in favor of freeways mid-20th century, an old freeway proposal that eventually came to life as a 'parkway', an odd penchant for interchanges that look like this. (http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=42.96289,-447.94853&z=16&t=S)
And if you like beer, they got you covered. Unlike out west, it's not mostly IPAs at all the craft breweries. :-D
Scroll a mile west of there and there's an abandoned interchange with what was originally intended to be the Stadium Freeway. It's now a park n' ride, but completely inaccessible from the freeway. A few of the ramps are still there, but slowly being reclaimed by nature.
BTW, the freeway is a very rare occurrence of a triple interstate multiplex I-41, I-43 and I-894 (also US 41). And two of the routes are going in opposite directions.
The Park and Ride is about to be redeveloped.
https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2021/09/03/cobalt-buys-park-and-ride-for-loomis-crossing.html
Quote from: Trademark on November 16, 2022, 03:09:13 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on November 15, 2022, 06:30:09 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 15, 2022, 02:26:18 PM
Milwaukee is a fascinating place for highway history. Stub ramps and tear-downs, but also sections of freeway rebuilt very well in this century. Rail transit that was torn out in favor of freeways mid-20th century, an old freeway proposal that eventually came to life as a 'parkway', an odd penchant for interchanges that look like this. (http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=42.96289,-447.94853&z=16&t=S)
And if you like beer, they got you covered. Unlike out west, it's not mostly IPAs at all the craft breweries. :-D
Scroll a mile west of there and there's an abandoned interchange with what was originally intended to be the Stadium Freeway. It's now a park n' ride, but completely inaccessible from the freeway. A few of the ramps are still there, but slowly being reclaimed by nature.
BTW, the freeway is a very rare occurrence of a triple interstate multiplex I-41, I-43 and I-894 (also US 41). And two of the routes are going in opposite directions.
The Park and Ride is about to be redeveloped.
https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2021/09/03/cobalt-buys-park-and-ride-for-loomis-crossing.html
The last remnant of the Stadium Freeway disappears.
Quote from: GeekJedi on November 16, 2022, 11:41:00 PM
Quote from: Trademark on November 16, 2022, 03:09:13 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on November 15, 2022, 06:30:09 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 15, 2022, 02:26:18 PM
Milwaukee is a fascinating place for highway history. Stub ramps and tear-downs, but also sections of freeway rebuilt very well in this century. Rail transit that was torn out in favor of freeways mid-20th century, an old freeway proposal that eventually came to life as a 'parkway', an odd penchant for interchanges that look like this. (http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=42.96289,-447.94853&z=16&t=S)
And if you like beer, they got you covered. Unlike out west, it's not mostly IPAs at all the craft breweries. :-D
Scroll a mile west of there and there's an abandoned interchange with what was originally intended to be the Stadium Freeway. It's now a park n' ride, but completely inaccessible from the freeway. A few of the ramps are still there, but slowly being reclaimed by nature.
BTW, the freeway is a very rare occurrence of a triple interstate multiplex I-41, I-43 and I-894 (also US 41). And two of the routes are going in opposite directions.
The Park and Ride is about to be redeveloped.
https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2021/09/03/cobalt-buys-park-and-ride-for-loomis-crossing.html
The last remnant of the Stadium Freeway disappears.
The part between Lisbon Ave and National Ave is still there.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on November 17, 2022, 12:57:21 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on November 16, 2022, 11:41:00 PM
Quote from: Trademark on November 16, 2022, 03:09:13 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on November 15, 2022, 06:30:09 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 15, 2022, 02:26:18 PM
Milwaukee is a fascinating place for highway history. Stub ramps and tear-downs, but also sections of freeway rebuilt very well in this century. Rail transit that was torn out in favor of freeways mid-20th century, an old freeway proposal that eventually came to life as a 'parkway', an odd penchant for interchanges that look like this. (http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=42.96289,-447.94853&z=16&t=S)
And if you like beer, they got you covered. Unlike out west, it's not mostly IPAs at all the craft breweries. :-D
Scroll a mile west of there and there's an abandoned interchange with what was originally intended to be the Stadium Freeway. It's now a park n' ride, but completely inaccessible from the freeway. A few of the ramps are still there, but slowly being reclaimed by nature.
BTW, the freeway is a very rare occurrence of a triple interstate multiplex I-41, I-43 and I-894 (also US 41). And two of the routes are going in opposite directions.
The Park and Ride is about to be redeveloped.
https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2021/09/03/cobalt-buys-park-and-ride-for-loomis-crossing.html
The last remnant of the Stadium Freeway disappears.
The part between Lisbon Ave and National Ave is still there.
Mike
For now. But that's getting the axe soon.
I guess we should say the last vestige of the Stadium South goes away with that project. At least the last vestige as originally constructed. I don't have to remind this group how they shifted the freeway east to build Miller Park.
Because of topography, I anticipate the portion of the Stadium North Freeway under Wisconsin/Bluemound and over the Menomonee River to remain a little freeway chunk even after it inevitably gets filled in/demolished in Washington Heights. Otherwise you're looking at some extremely goofy slopes from under I-94 to the top of the hill at Bluemound and then down back into the valley of the Menomonee River.
And I enjoy both IPAs and dark beers.
And lagers and pilsners and ambers and dunkels so on and so on. ;)
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 17, 2022, 02:51:57 PM
I guess we should say the last vestige of the Stadium South goes away with that project. At least the last vestige as originally constructed. I don't have to remind this group how they shifted the freeway east to build Miller Park.
Because of topography, I anticipate the portion of the Stadium North Freeway under Wisconsin/Bluemound and over the Menomonee River to remain a little freeway chunk even after it inevitably gets filled in/demolished in Washington Heights. Otherwise you're looking at some extremely goofy slopes from under I-94 to the top of the hill at Bluemound and then down back into the valley of the Menomonee River.
And I enjoy both IPAs and dark beers.
And lagers and pilsners and ambers and dunkels so on and so on. ;)
The Stadium North is a strange beast. It was obviously designed to cross the Menomonee River Valley, while also serving the many streets in the area (which many other surface streets between 35th Street and WIS 100 do in a haphazard way).
Of course, in the beginning, there were far grander plans for the Stadium Freeway. Obviously, those plans did not pan out (likely for the better). So, now it is simply a short, segmented beast that travels across some pretty crazy terrain, yet serves a busy baseball stadium, the VA complex, I-94, the corporate HQs of Miller* and Harley-Davidson, and Milwaukee's north side.
And yes, with the shortened fragment that was actually built, it is definitely flawed. I'm sure nobody really looks forward to being dumped off onto Lisbon Ave., then Appleton Ave. on the north end. It is an absolute mess of narrow, pothole-ridden streets with lots of traffic lights through very depressed neighborhoods.
But I'm getting off topic. The terrain and elevation concerns, among other things, definitely get in the way of turning the Stadium North freeway into a grand boulevard. Same with the I-794 surface scheme through downtown. Physically, it just won't work. So, we're stuck with them.
An interesting item here, it seems that a number of the (regular posters) in another development forvm that I follow have been all giddy over past few weeks in their discussions between themselves about the idea of closing and removing I-794 through the downtown Milwaukee area. Any thoughts and/or insights on this?
Mike
We discussed this a few months back, here's what I had said.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on September 12, 2022, 04:49:14 PM
I would prefer 794 not to be dismantled. Milwaukee doesn't have great public transit to make-up for the difference and 94 is busy enough as it is. I'd rather have the traffic use highways than clog up surface streets. 794 is not just a short freeway stub, it's a connection to the lakeshore areas further south, even down to Racine County.
My opinion hasn't changed. Some urbanists pissing themselves about it ain't gonna change my opinion, that's for sure.
Here is my take on tearing down Interstate 794: NO (expletive)ING WAY! What they should do is move all left-handed ramps (at both Exit 1E and Exit 1F) to the right-hand side; or possibly combine 1E and 1F into a single exit, at least for eastbound traffic. There is too much traffic on 794 to remove it; the former Park East Freeway was an underutilized spur, so it is understandable why it was demolished 20 years ago. The only other change I would suggest is to number the STH-794 Lake Parkway's exit numbers as a continuation of Interstate 794's numbers (S. Carferry Dr. would become Exit 3, like it is SB; Oklahoma Ave. could remain unnumbered since it is a jug-handle; E. Howard Ave. would become Exit 5; and E. Layton Ave. would become Exit 6). I hope the proposed Lake Parkway extension to STH-100/E. Ryan Rd. is eventually built (a short distance north of where it would intersect E. Puetz Rd., it would pass by where my paternal grandfather once lived).
I'm all for looking at alternatives but I think tearing it down will be the best option. People are exaggerating the traffic problems.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 01, 2023, 08:19:54 PM
Here is my take on tearing down Interstate 794: NO (expletive)ING WAY! What they should do is move all left-handed ramps (at both Exit 1E and Exit 1F) to the right-hand side; or possibly combine 1E and 1F into a single exit, at least for eastbound traffic. There is too much traffic on 794 to remove it; the former Park East Freeway was an underutilized spur, so it is understandable why it was demolished 20 years ago. The only other change I would suggest is to number the STH-794 Lake Parkway's exit numbers as a continuation of Interstate 794's numbers (S. Carferry Dr. would become Exit 3, like it is SB; Oklahoma Ave. could remain unnumbered since it is a jug-handle; E. Howard Ave. would become Exit 5; and E. Layton Ave. would become Exit 6). I hope the proposed Lake Parkway extension to STH-100/E. Ryan Rd. is eventually built (a short distance north of where it would intersect E. Puetz Rd., it would pass by where my paternal grandfather once lived).
I'm not sure I'd called the Oklahoma Ave "exit" a jughandle. It's really just a connector road between the two.
I've stated before I think traffic will be just fine if Milwaukee decides to tear down that stretch of 794. The overwhelming majority of traffic on that facility has an origin/destination somewhere downtown or on the lakefront, so the freeway saves them what, 3 minutes? I don't think the expense of replacing the aging portion of the viaduct is worth the expense given that reality.
I'd lament the loss of one of my favorite interstate numbers, but the coolness of the number 794 isn't enough for me to stand in the way.
I-794 west of the Lake Interchange is not a linchpin to the freeway system in Milwaukee. Having lived in the city during the Marquette Interchange reconstruction, I saw first hand how people adapted to long term closures. There was a long time there where 794 was inaccessible to/from I-43 and it was manageable.
That being said, according to Futurama, I-794 still exists a thousand years from now:
(https://morbotron.com/img/S04E11/105171.jpg)
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 02, 2023, 10:45:10 AM
I've stated before I think traffic will be just fine if Milwaukee decides to tear down that stretch of 794. The overwhelming majority of traffic on that facility has an origin/destination somewhere downtown or on the lakefront, so the freeway saves them what, 3 minutes? I don't think the expense of replacing the aging portion of the viaduct is worth the expense given that reality.
I'd lament the loss of one of my favorite interstate numbers, but the coolness of the number 794 isn't enough for me to stand in the way.
I-794 west of the Lake Interchange is not a linchpin to the freeway system in Milwaukee. Having lived in the city during the Marquette Interchange reconstruction, I saw first hand how people adapted to long term closures. There was a long time there where 794 was inaccessible to/from I-43 and it was manageable.
Thank you. You stated this better than I did.
In your opinion, what should replace 794 between the 94 interchange and the Hoan Bridge?
I expressed this earlier in the topic. I envision some sort of boulevard. But I think a full study should be done to see if there are better options.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on February 02, 2023, 04:14:06 PM
In your opinion, what should replace 794 between the 94 interchange and the Hoan Bridge?
Why would anything replace it? They just rebuilt it a little less than a decade ago why are we even talking about this?
Quote from: dvferyance on February 02, 2023, 07:23:03 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on February 02, 2023, 04:14:06 PM
In your opinion, what should replace 794 between the 94 interchange and the Hoan Bridge?
Why would anything replace it? They just rebuilt it a little less than a decade ago why are we even talking about this?
I'm not the one saying it should be torn down. I was asking what the people who are okay with tearing it would prefer to see.
Quote from: dvferyance on February 02, 2023, 07:23:03 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on February 02, 2023, 04:14:06 PM
In your opinion, what should replace 794 between the 94 interchange and the Hoan Bridge?
Why would anything replace it? They just rebuilt it a little less than a decade ago why are we even talking about this?
The Marquette Interchange was replaced. Not I-794. And the reason we are talking about this is because there is a group in Milwaukee discussing it because the future of the Lake Interchange is being studied by WIDOT right now.
The Marquette rebuild replaced all of 794 to river. The Lake Interchange was reconstructed as-is in 2014/15. Some of the bridges were redecked, the rest were resurfaced. Some of the ramps were replaced entirely. That was when they reconfigured a couple of the ramps to the current configuration.
Basically anything with blue steel girders was completely replaced. Anything with a box girder got resurfaced.
So it's a mix of totally new structures and fixed-up old structures.
All this suggests the tear-down idea is not a short term concept; likely no action this decade, if I were to guess.
In terms of what I'd like to see, the 'boulevard' concept seems like the default answer. Probably on Clybourn Ave. Question becomes where does the transition occur then? The river? West of the river, like 3rd St? The further west it is, the more expensive it gets because it begins to affect the elevation of the system interchange ramps.
Like I said though, this is at least a decade out. The wheels on a project like this are going to move slow.
When the portion of Interstate 794 between the Marquette Interchange and the Lake Interchange was being planned, there was a debate on whether it should be an elevated freeway or a surface boulevard. The then-mayor wanted a surface boulevard and the common council wanted a freeway. The mayor vetoed the elevated freeway plan, which the common council overrode, and the freeway was built (ironically, that very same former mayor later said that building the elevated freeway was the right move): http://wisconsinhighways.org/milwaukee/eastwest.html. With that being said, I personally believe it is unrealistic to just remove 794 and move all traffic to the surface streets. I feel it is a needed connection. Is the support for getting rid of 794 widespread, or is it (as I suspect) confined to a small but vocal group of activists and planners?
Lifelong resident here - my opinion is that 794 should stay, however remove the ramps between the Marquette and Lake interchanges. 794 is a through route to the south suburbs along the lake (Bayview, Cudahy, etc.) which means you're just pushing traffic to other surface streets.
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 03, 2023, 07:27:55 PM
Lifelong resident here - my opinion is that 794 should stay, however remove the ramps between the Marquette and Lake interchanges. 794 is a through route to the south suburbs along the lake (Bayview, Cudahy, etc.) which means you're just pushing traffic to other surface streets.
I would keep one direct ramp on and off in both directions to Downtown. EB off/WB on at Plankinton Ave. WB off/EB on at Milwaukee with the configuration tied into the Lake Interchange.
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 03, 2023, 07:27:55 PM
Lifelong resident here - my opinion is that 794 should stay, however remove the ramps between the Marquette and Lake interchanges. 794 is a through route to the south suburbs along the lake (Bayview, Cudahy, etc.) which means you're just pushing traffic to other surface streets.
According to your location, don't you live around Mukwonago?
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 03, 2023, 07:27:55 PM
Lifelong resident here - my opinion is that 794 should stay, however remove the ramps between the Marquette and Lake interchanges. 794 is a through route to the south suburbs along the lake (Bayview, Cudahy, etc.) which means you're just pushing traffic to other surface streets.
No that's not the purpose of I-794. It's designed to collect and deliver traffic to and from downtown, not to serve the tiny percent of vehicles that are driving thru the center city en route to a couple of south shore neighborhoods and suburbs. Suburbs and neighborhoods, which I must say, one can easily drive to from 43/94 via surface roads without having to deal with downtown commuters.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 05, 2023, 05:47:37 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 03, 2023, 07:27:55 PM
Lifelong resident here - my opinion is that 794 should stay, however remove the ramps between the Marquette and Lake interchanges. 794 is a through route to the south suburbs along the lake (Bayview, Cudahy, etc.) which means you're just pushing traffic to other surface streets.
I do now. I was born at West Allis Memorial hospital. Grew up in Bay View and work in Milwaukee.
According to your location, don't you live around Mukwonago?
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 06, 2023, 04:51:23 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 03, 2023, 07:27:55 PM
Lifelong resident here - my opinion is that 794 should stay, however remove the ramps between the Marquette and Lake interchanges. 794 is a through route to the south suburbs along the lake (Bayview, Cudahy, etc.) which means you're just pushing traffic to other surface streets.
No that's not the purpose of I-794. It's designed to collect and deliver traffic to and from downtown, not to serve the tiny percent of vehicles that are driving thru the center city en route to a couple of south shore neighborhoods and suburbs. Suburbs and neighborhoods, which I must say, one can easily drive to from 43/94 via surface roads without having to deal with downtown commuters.
That's just flat out false. You're telling me people don't use the route to get to those suburbs? Should we never have redundant routes in case of emergencies? Why did Milwaukee rebuild the Hoan Bridge?
794 through downtown is barely a mile long. It's already there, why is it so critical to remove?
No one said it was "critical to remove." If given the choice between rebuilding and removing, I would choose removing. And you would still be able to access the southeast suburbs. They're not talking about tearing down the Hoan or removing WI-794.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 07, 2023, 07:34:18 AM
No one said it was "critical to remove." If given the choice between rebuilding and removing, I would choose removing. And you would still be able to access the southeast suburbs. They're not talking about tearing down the Hoan or removing WI-794.
Sure...so how does one get to the Hoan from points west with 794 gone? Surface streets. It's a balloon - you squeeze from one end and the other expands. The Park West didn't have a destination. 794 ultimately does. The time for tearing it down would have been before the Lake Parkway was built.
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 07, 2023, 01:54:09 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 07, 2023, 07:34:18 AM
No one said it was "critical to remove." If given the choice between rebuilding and removing, I would choose removing. And you would still be able to access the southeast suburbs. They're not talking about tearing down the Hoan or removing WI-794.
Sure...so how does one get to the Hoan from points west with 794 gone? Surface streets. It's a balloon - you squeeze from one end and the other expands. The Park West didn't have a destination. 794 ultimately does. The time for tearing it down would have been before the Lake Parkway was built.
I think most of the people are using the Hoan and WI-794 to get to and from downtown. Not points west.
But if they do, they can either use the new boulevard or surface streets to get to I-43/94.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on February 06, 2023, 10:17:03 PM
That's just flat out false. You're telling me people don't use the route to get to those suburbs?
That is not what I said. I said "a tiny percent" of all traffic using the East-West portion of I-794 is going thru downtown to access south shore neighborhoods.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on February 06, 2023, 10:17:03 PMShould we never have redundant routes in case of emergencies? Why did Milwaukee rebuild the Hoan Bridge?
The Hoan connects south shore neighborhoods to downtown. That's it's primary function. Which is a separate function from the E-W portion of I-794; that facility is to collect and distribute traffic with an origin/destination downtown, then connect it to the broader freeway system. They don't necessarily have to be a continuous facility to serve those two functions.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on February 06, 2023, 10:17:03 PM794 through downtown is barely a mile long. It's already there, why is it so critical to remove?
I'd say it is not critical to remove it. But if one is making long term future plans for downtown, something that will start to come to fruition in the mid 2030's, I think it's an entirely valid thing to study and plan for.
I'm not gonna be writing my representatives advocating for the removal of that chunk of freeway, but I'm also not going to oppose its removal if that ends up being the plan. I saw how people adapted when portions of that freeway were closed long term for construction. It will be fine. The money saved can go into fixing up more useful freeways in Milwaukee. (Looking at you, Hale Interchange.)
The only change I would make would be to convert E. St. Paul Ave. to one-way eastbound, since E. Clybourn St. is one-way westbound.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 07, 2023, 03:45:41 PM
The only change I would make would be to convert E. St. Paul Ave. to one-way eastbound, since E. Clybourn St. is one-way westbound.
As somebody who's been in Milwaukee for 2 1/2 years now, this has annoyed me to no end; it's so obvious that it should be a one-way feeder pair (and maybe eventually replace I-794 itself), yet it isn't!
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 07, 2023, 02:08:54 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 07, 2023, 01:54:09 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 07, 2023, 07:34:18 AM
No one said it was "critical to remove." If given the choice between rebuilding and removing, I would choose removing. And you would still be able to access the southeast suburbs. They're not talking about tearing down the Hoan or removing WI-794.
Sure...so how does one get to the Hoan from points west with 794 gone? Surface streets. It's a balloon - you squeeze from one end and the other expands. The Park West didn't have a destination. 794 ultimately does. The time for tearing it down would have been before the Lake Parkway was built.
I think most of the people are using the Hoan and WI-794 to get to and from downtown. Not points west.
But if they do, they can either use the new boulevard or surface streets to get to I-43/94.
You may think that, but if you work in Brookfield and live in Bayview or Cudahy, you are taking 794 from points west. And now you're dumping that traffic on the new boulevard and surface streets.
There's no free lunch with this one.
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 09, 2023, 08:00:34 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 07, 2023, 02:08:54 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 07, 2023, 01:54:09 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 07, 2023, 07:34:18 AM
No one said it was "critical to remove." If given the choice between rebuilding and removing, I would choose removing. And you would still be able to access the southeast suburbs. They're not talking about tearing down the Hoan or removing WI-794.
Sure...so how does one get to the Hoan from points west with 794 gone? Surface streets. It's a balloon - you squeeze from one end and the other expands. The Park West didn't have a destination. 794 ultimately does. The time for tearing it down would have been before the Lake Parkway was built.
I think most of the people are using the Hoan and WI-794 to get to and from downtown. Not points west.
But if they do, they can either use the new boulevard or surface streets to get to I-43/94.
You may think that, but if you work in Brookfield and live in Bayview or Cudahy, you are taking 794 from points west. And now you're dumping that traffic on the new boulevard and surface streets.
There's no free lunch with this one.
Sure I guess those people are going to now be on surface streets. But that seems like a pretty small segment. And driving on surface streets isn't terrible.
And yes there is benefits to this. A less expensive option than replacement and all sorts of additional development opportunities.
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 09, 2023, 08:00:34 PM
You may think that, but if you work in Brookfield and live in Bayview or Cudahy, you are taking 794 from points west. And now you're dumping that traffic on the new boulevard and surface streets.
There's no free lunch with this one.
That handful of people will be quite easily distributed among the surface arterials that connect them to I-43/94 (or 41/94 depending on how far south they are).
Weighed against the prospect of freeing up some seriously valuable real estate, I am unmoved by the extra four minutes someone with that commute would have.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 10, 2023, 04:35:55 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 09, 2023, 08:00:34 PM
You may think that, but if you work in Brookfield and live in Bayview or Cudahy, you are taking 794 from points west. And now you're dumping that traffic on the new boulevard and surface streets.
There's no free lunch with this one.
That handful of people will be quite easily distributed among the surface arterials that connect them to I-43/94 (or 41/94 depending on how far south they are).
Weighed against the prospect of freeing up some seriously valuable real estate, I am unmoved by the extra four minutes someone with that commute would have.
If it's four minutes, I'll eat my socks. I worked in the Third Ward for several years, I can tell you that not only is it more than four minutes, the traffic is bad now without those roads soaking up the traffic that would be distributed with 794 gone.
If that traffic takes WI-794 over the Hoan Bridge, and then has to take a boulevard a few blocks before entering I-94 at the Marquette Interchange, you think that would be more than four additional minutes??
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 11, 2023, 07:41:41 AM
If that traffic takes WI-794 over the Hoan Bridge, and then has to take a boulevard a few blocks before entering I-94 at the Marquette Interchange, you think that would be more than four additional minutes??
Absolutely. It does now, and definitely will when that traffic increases.
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 11, 2023, 12:26:50 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 11, 2023, 07:41:41 AM
If that traffic takes WI-794 over the Hoan Bridge, and then has to take a boulevard a few blocks before entering I-94 at the Marquette Interchange, you think that would be more than four additional minutes??
Absolutely. It does now, and definitely will when that traffic increases.
Four "additional" minutes.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 11, 2023, 09:26:35 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 11, 2023, 12:26:50 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 11, 2023, 07:41:41 AM
If that traffic takes WI-794 over the Hoan Bridge, and then has to take a boulevard a few blocks before entering I-94 at the Marquette Interchange, you think that would be more than four additional minutes??
Absolutely. It does now, and definitely will when that traffic increases.
Four "additional" minutes.
You are talking about making it a boulevard in its place. Even if the dump off from the Marquette is at 2nd St, you still likely have 6 blocks of signals heading east before Lincoln Memorial and the Hoan Bridge which would also be a signal. It is not out of the realm of possibility that it could add 4 minutes vs a freeway.
Quote from: hobsini2 on February 12, 2023, 09:30:04 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 11, 2023, 09:26:35 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 11, 2023, 12:26:50 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 11, 2023, 07:41:41 AM
If that traffic takes WI-794 over the Hoan Bridge, and then has to take a boulevard a few blocks before entering I-94 at the Marquette Interchange, you think that would be more than four additional minutes??
Absolutely. It does now, and definitely will when that traffic increases.
Four "additional" minutes.
You are talking about making it a boulevard in its place. Even if the dump off from the Marquette is at 2nd St, you still likely have 6 blocks of signals heading east before Lincoln Memorial and the Hoan Bridge which would also be a signal. It is not out of the realm of possibility that it could add 4 minutes vs a freeway.
Traffic on that 'boulevard' swill also be a major impediment to crossing that street and to pedestrian circulation in the area.
Mike
These are the same arguments that were made, and proved to be nonsense, when the Park East was removed. Time the lights right and it's not taking significant time. And yes, pedestrians can cross the street like in every other city.
The Park East Freeway was an underutilized freeway spur that only served local traffic. Interstate 794 not only serves downtown Milwaukee and the Lake Interchange, but also the Hoan Bridge and ultimately the Lake Parkway. According to the WisDOT traffic counts for 2018/19: https://wisdot.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=2e12a4f051de4ea9bc865ec6393731f8, Interstate 794 served 94,400 cars west of the Milwaukee River Bridge, and 67,700 east of the Milwaukee River Bridge. If 794 were removed, that traffic would not just disappear. Sure, some of it may divert to other routes, but likely not enough to mitigate the removal of the freeway. Keep 794 as-is!
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 12, 2023, 01:23:30 PM
The Park East Freeway was an underutilized freeway spur that only served local traffic. Interstate 794 not only serves downtown Milwaukee and the Lake Interchange, but also the Hoan Bridge and ultimately the Lake Parkway. According to the WisDOT traffic counts for 2018/19: https://wisdot.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=2e12a4f051de4ea9bc865ec6393731f8, Interstate 794 served 94,400 cars west of the Milwaukee River Bridge, and 67,700 east of the Milwaukee River Bridge. If 794 were removed, that traffic would not just disappear. Sure, some of it may divert to other routes, but likely not enough to mitigate the removal of the freeway. Keep 794 as-is!
I second this. The Park East was an entirely different animal. It ended maybe a mile in at a surface street. Unless you were planning on being in that neighborhood, you wouldn't use it.
Nah. It's not that different. It brought out the same nonsense that you're saying here. Most of the traffic is heading downtown. So it will go downtown.
And yes. Keep it as is. But don't replace it when that time comes.
Too bad then WISDOT and the city of Milwaukee don't have more cash. We could have put I-794 in a tunnel like Boston Big Dig or a trench like a gap of I-70 in Denver but I wonder if that area is prone to flooding with the proximity of Milwaukee River and Lake Michigan?
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on February 12, 2023, 05:14:15 PM
Too bad then WISDOT and the city of Milwaukee don't have more cash. We could have put I-794 in a tunnel like Boston Big Dig or a trench like a gap of I-70 in Denver but I wonder if that area is prone to flooding with the proximity of Milwaukee River and Lake Michigan?
I mean, the NYC tunnels seem to exist just fine given two major rivers and the Atlantic Ocean (and were even built 80-90 years ago), so I don't see why this would be different?
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 12, 2023, 04:53:06 PM
Nah. It's not that different. It brought out the same nonsense that you're saying here. Most of the traffic is heading downtown. So it will go downtown.
And yes. Keep it as is. But don't replace it when that time comes.
Park East: 50,000 Vehicles per day
794: 100,000 Vehicles per day
Hoan Bridge: 40,000 Vehicles per day
Talk about bringing nonsense to the conversation. The Park East shares nothing in common with this.
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 12, 2023, 07:41:21 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 12, 2023, 04:53:06 PM
Nah. It's not that different. It brought out the same nonsense that you're saying here. Most of the traffic is heading downtown. So it will go downtown.
And yes. Keep it as is. But don't replace it when that time comes.
Park East: 50,000 Vehicles per day
794: 100,000 Vehicles per day
Hoan Bridge: 40,000 Vehicles per day
Talk about bringing nonsense to the conversation. The Park East shares nothing in common with this.
No this actually makes my point. Most of the traffic is going to or coming from downtown. You don't need an interstate highway to accomplish that. In fact, I think given these numbers, it makes even MORE sense than I thought previously.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 12, 2023, 07:49:15 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 12, 2023, 07:41:21 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 12, 2023, 04:53:06 PM
Nah. It's not that different. It brought out the same nonsense that you're saying here. Most of the traffic is heading downtown. So it will go downtown.
And yes. Keep it as is. But don't replace it when that time comes.
Park East: 50,000 Vehicles per day
794: 100,000 Vehicles per day
Hoan Bridge: 40,000 Vehicles per day
Talk about bringing nonsense to the conversation. The Park East shares nothing in common with this.
No this actually makes my point. Most of the traffic is going to or coming from downtown. You don't need an interstate highway to accomplish that. In fact, I think given these numbers, it makes even MORE sense than I thought previously.
So 100,000 cars are supposed to get off at the Marquette interchange and onto city streets. Not sure in what world that makes sense, but you do you.
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 12, 2023, 10:24:28 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 12, 2023, 07:49:15 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 12, 2023, 07:41:21 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 12, 2023, 04:53:06 PM
Nah. It's not that different. It brought out the same nonsense that you're saying here. Most of the traffic is heading downtown. So it will go downtown.
And yes. Keep it as is. But don't replace it when that time comes.
Park East: 50,000 Vehicles per day
794: 100,000 Vehicles per day
Hoan Bridge: 40,000 Vehicles per day
Talk about bringing nonsense to the conversation. The Park East shares nothing in common with this.
No this actually makes my point. Most of the traffic is going to or coming from downtown. You don't need an interstate highway to accomplish that. In fact, I think given these numbers, it makes even MORE sense than I thought previously.
So 100,000 cars are supposed to get off at the Marquette interchange and onto city streets. Not sure in what world that makes sense, but you do you.
Hm. Depends on where that 100k traffic count was taken on I-794. I'd doubt they were all headed downtown or would do so if I-794 was shortened or removed.
Kind of a tangent here, but what were the estimated AADT numbers had the Park Freeway (both east AND west) been completed as originally planned?
Mike
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 12, 2023, 10:24:28 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 12, 2023, 07:49:15 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 12, 2023, 07:41:21 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 12, 2023, 04:53:06 PM
Nah. It's not that different. It brought out the same nonsense that you're saying here. Most of the traffic is heading downtown. So it will go downtown.
And yes. Keep it as is. But don't replace it when that time comes.
Park East: 50,000 Vehicles per day
794: 100,000 Vehicles per day
Hoan Bridge: 40,000 Vehicles per day
Talk about bringing nonsense to the conversation. The Park East shares nothing in common with this.
No this actually makes my point. Most of the traffic is going to or coming from downtown. You don't need an interstate highway to accomplish that. In fact, I think given these numbers, it makes even MORE sense than I thought previously.
So 100,000 cars are supposed to get off at the Marquette interchange and onto city streets. Not sure in what world that makes sense, but you do you.
Someone doesn't understand how traffic counts work.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2023, 04:47:48 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 12, 2023, 10:24:28 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 12, 2023, 07:49:15 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 12, 2023, 07:41:21 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 12, 2023, 04:53:06 PM
Nah. It's not that different. It brought out the same nonsense that you're saying here. Most of the traffic is heading downtown. So it will go downtown.
And yes. Keep it as is. But don't replace it when that time comes.
Park East: 50,000 Vehicles per day
794: 100,000 Vehicles per day
Hoan Bridge: 40,000 Vehicles per day
Talk about bringing nonsense to the conversation. The Park East shares nothing in common with this.
No this actually makes my point. Most of the traffic is going to or coming from downtown. You don't need an interstate highway to accomplish that. In fact, I think given these numbers, it makes even MORE sense than I thought previously.
So 100,000 cars are supposed to get off at the Marquette interchange and onto city streets. Not sure in what world that makes sense, but you do you.
Someone doesn't understand how traffic counts work.
Someone is very condescending.
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 13, 2023, 04:13:41 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2023, 04:47:48 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 12, 2023, 10:24:28 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 12, 2023, 07:49:15 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 12, 2023, 07:41:21 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 12, 2023, 04:53:06 PM
Nah. It's not that different. It brought out the same nonsense that you're saying here. Most of the traffic is heading downtown. So it will go downtown.
And yes. Keep it as is. But don't replace it when that time comes.
Park East: 50,000 Vehicles per day
794: 100,000 Vehicles per day
Hoan Bridge: 40,000 Vehicles per day
Talk about bringing nonsense to the conversation. The Park East shares nothing in common with this.
No this actually makes my point. Most of the traffic is going to or coming from downtown. You don't need an interstate highway to accomplish that. In fact, I think given these numbers, it makes even MORE sense than I thought previously.
So 100,000 cars are supposed to get off at the Marquette interchange and onto city streets. Not sure in what world that makes sense, but you do you.
Someone doesn't understand how traffic counts work.
Someone is very condescending.
Dang, the audacity to say that after your last post.
WisDOT's interactive traffic count map is located here (https://wisdot.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=2e12a4f051de4ea9bc865ec6393731f8) in case anyone wants to pan around and see what the numbers are for themselves.
Not to be pedantic, but the highest AADT on 794 is 94,400. This drops to 67,700 "east of Water St". Then down to 40,000 on the Hoan.
Adding up the AADT for all the ramps between the Hoan Bridge and the Milwaukee River is 25,900. Subtract that from the Hoan's 40k means a thru traffic AADT of 14,100.
Not that impressive if the argument is this entire freeway is needed for the city's freeway system to function. 14k is what Water Street has downtown.
These numbers bolster my position that the city will be fine if 794 doesn't go all the way through downtown as a freeway.
^ But that implies that no traffic is using both the east-west segment and the bridge, which I've done and certainly others have too.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 13, 2023, 05:17:38 PM
WisDOT's interactive traffic count map is located here (https://wisdot.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=2e12a4f051de4ea9bc865ec6393731f8) in case anyone wants to pan around and see what the numbers are for themselves.
Not to be pedantic, but the highest AADT on 794 is 94,400. This drops to 67,700 "east of Water St". Then down to 40,000 on the Hoan.
Adding up the AADT for all the ramps between the Hoan Bridge and the Milwaukee River is 25,900. Subtract that from the Hoan's 40k means a thru traffic AADT of 14,100.
Not that impressive if the argument is this entire freeway is needed for the city's freeway system to function. 14k is what Water Street has downtown.
These numbers bolster my position that the city will be fine if 794 doesn't go all the way through downtown as a freeway.
Exactly
Quote from: JoePCool14 on February 13, 2023, 07:57:39 PM
^ But that implies that no traffic is using both the east-west segment and the bridge, which I've done and certainly others have too.
What? Its 14,100 vehicles a day on average. Not zero. Where are you getting that implication of "no traffic" from?
What the traffic counts say to me is that people are using 794 for heading to Maier Park and the Museum Campus on Lincoln Memorial and maybe even the Deer District (vs Kilbourn). Personally, I have used 794 more as an entrance into and exit out of the Marquette than going over to the Hoan Bridge.
But that being said, I would still like at least a Parkway between the Marquette and Hoan.
Quote from: hobsini2 on February 18, 2023, 11:33:12 AM
What the traffic counts say to me is that people are using 794 for heading to Maier Park and the Museum Campus on Lincoln Memorial and maybe even the Deer District (vs Kilbourn). Personally, I have used 794 more as an entrance into and exit out of the Marquette than going over to the Hoan Bridge.
But that being said, I would still like at least a Parkway between the Marquette and Hoan.
This has me curious... right now, you can't access the tunnel to Kilbourn Avenue from I-43 northbound; you can only get to it when going from I-94 eastbound to I-43 north on the ramp. Do you think maybe part of the traffic concerns of replacing the elevated freeway with a parkway could be addressed if they also added access to this ramp from I-43 north?
https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/real-estate/commercial/2023/04/26/new-downtown-milwaukee-plan-includes-a-focus-on-removing-i-794/70150254007/
Goddam John Q Norquist has a "son". Here's the next NUMTOT of Milwaukee
WISDOT has released their I-794 rebuild/removal concepts
https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2023/06/23/dots-i-794-concepts-development.html
I'm a fan of removing it rather than rebuilding it. If they go that route, which is certainly not out of the question considering Milwaukee's freeway history, that would spell the end of I-794. The freeway from Lincoln Memorial southward would still exist but it would not connect to I-94.
I strongly oppose the freeway removal proposals, and strongly support the freeway improvement proposals (although I don't have a preference, except not the replacement-in-kind proposal). When former mayor John Norquist proposed to remove Interstate 794 between the Marquette and Lake Interchanges, there was near universal opposition from elected officials and civic leaders outside of Milwaukee: http://wisconsinhighways.org/listings/WiscHwys400-894.html#I-794. I'm not sure if such opposition will arise again, but I hope it does. Originally, former mayor Frank Ziegler supported building a surface boulevard instead of an elevated Highway, although he later said building the elevated freeway was the right decision: http://wisconsinhighways.org/milwaukee/eastwest.html.
I also hate freeway removals, with some exceptions. NY 895 is one, because it replaced what was basically a forgotten expressway in the Bronx. Hopefully, the soon-to-be-former I-375 in Detroit will be done right too.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 23, 2023, 08:19:49 PM
I strongly oppose the freeway removal proposals, and strongly support the freeway improvement proposals (although I don't have a preference, except not the replacement-in-kind proposal). When former mayor John Norquist proposed to remove Interstate 794 between the Marquette and Lake Interchanges, there was near universal opposition from elected officials and civic leaders outside of Milwaukee: http://wisconsinhighways.org/listings/WiscHwys400-894.html#I-794. I'm not sure if such opposition will arise again, but I hope it does. Originally, former mayor Frank Ziegler supported building a surface boulevard instead of an elevated Highway, although he later said building the elevated freeway was the right decision: http://wisconsinhighways.org/milwaukee/eastwest.html.
Why?
I hope it gets rebuilt. I generally support freeways and I support freeway removals like the 375 in Detroit. But with this one, if they could tunnel and better connected to the existing freeway, net work, it could be a very useful Road. It already seems to be useful as it is and should be rebuilt.
The biggest concern I have is how to reconnect the Hoan Bridge and the Marquette interchange to the new surface-level boulevard, and what will happen to the existing St. Paul Avenue and Clybourn Street. Will they rip out Clybourn Street entirely? Will they just add new eastbound lanes? There's many different ways they could do it, and building a two-way boulevard right next to Clybourn Street sounds like the worst one.
Looking at AADTs as well, the closest comparable surface boulevard to what is proposed, McKinley Avenue, has an AADT of about 25,000 according to WisDOT's site. When it was the Park Freeway, the AADT hit 50,000 for 2002. There is a precedent for people not using the surface boulevard that replaces a freeway here, which very well may happen.
Assuming the same conditions (AADT goes down 50% or more within 20 years), AADT might hit, what, 35,000 a few years after the conversion? This is only slightly more traffic than what Lincoln Memorial Drive carries in its southern segment.
If they absolutely must have a freeway, I'd rather see it in a trench so the city's not cut in half by a completely elevated freeway (Boston Central Artery, anyone?). I really don't think it needs to stay a freeway though, from guesstimating AADT trends with a similar conversion that happened a long time ago, and my experiences driving on it and looking at the relatively low amount of congestion on it from the building my internship is in, which has a great view of I-794 from the fourth floor. Plus, from my experience living down there without a car, it serves as a really unusual, distinct division between the historic Third Ward, the Intermodal Station, and the rest of downtown; the freeway definitely makes walking or biking in the area a bit more nerve-racking than without.
Quote from: Hobart on June 23, 2023, 11:51:11 PM
The biggest concern I have is how to reconnect the Hoan Bridge and the Marquette interchange to the new surface-level boulevard, and what will happen to the existing St. Paul Avenue and Clybourn Street. Will they rip out Clybourn Street entirely? Will they just add new eastbound lanes? There's many different ways they could do it, and building a two-way boulevard right next to Clybourn Street sounds like the worst one.
Looking at AADTs as well, the closest comparable surface boulevard to what is proposed, McKinley Avenue, has an AADT of about 25,000 according to WisDOT's site. When it was the Park Freeway, the AADT hit 50,000 for 2002. There is a precedent for people not using the surface boulevard that replaces a freeway here, which very well may happen.
Assuming the same conditions (AADT goes down 50% or more within 20 years), AADT might hit, what, 35,000 a few years after the conversion? This is only slightly more traffic than what Lincoln Memorial Drive carries in its southern segment.
If they absolutely must have a freeway, I'd rather see it in a trench so the city's not cut in half by a completely elevated freeway (Boston Central Artery, anyone?). I really don't think it needs to stay a freeway though, from guesstimating AADT trends with a similar conversion that happened a long time ago, and my experiences driving on it and looking at the relatively low amount of congestion on it from the building my internship is in, which has a great view of I-794 from the fourth floor. Plus, from my experience living down there without a car, it serves as a really unusual, distinct division between the historic Third Ward, the Intermodal Station, and the rest of downtown; the freeway definitely makes walking or biking in the area a bit more nerve-racking than without.
Agree with all of this, and would add that even if the freeway is removed, there would still be freeflow connection from the Marquette Interchange to the heart of downtown. Exactly which street the stubs would end at is unclear, but I think Water St would be the best choice.
Tear it down. It should have never been built.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 24, 2023, 09:33:40 AM
Tear it down. It should have never been built.
Why? When the Park East was torn down nothing was built there in over a decade and if it wasn't for the Bucks new arena who knows how much longer it would have sat there empty. And we were told 20 years ago that land was gold. I can't beleive we are even discussing this.
Quote from: dvferyance on June 24, 2023, 08:44:42 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 24, 2023, 09:33:40 AM
Tear it down. It should have never been built.
Why? When the Park East was torn down nothing was built there in over a decade and if it wasn't for the Bucks new arena who knows how much longer it would have sat there empty. And we were told 20 years ago that land was gold. I can't beleive we are even discussing this.
Nothing was built there because of the County's idiotic land-use policies. I would guess everyone learned their lesson from that nonsense. Regardless, even though it took too long to develop the corridor, it is MUCH better now than when the Park East cut through.
And you can't believe people are discussing this? It's a short, elevated freeway that is in need of costly maintenance and separates two Milwaukee neighborhoods from one another. It's plainly obvious why it is under discussion.
It's so shortsighted to get rid of this just because it isn't better connected.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 24, 2023, 09:35:03 PM
It's a short, elevated freeway that is in need of costly maintenance and separates two Milwaukee neighborhoods from one another. It's plainly obvious why it is under discussion.
The river to the south also 'divides' the neighborhoods, maybe it should be covered/removed as well? Could always split the flow with multiple pipes under the different streets[/semi sarcastic].
And the particularly section is part of a much greater corridor, unlike the Park East which didn't have another higher type road connecting to it on the east end.
Quote from: Revive 755 on June 24, 2023, 10:19:45 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 24, 2023, 09:35:03 PM
It's a short, elevated freeway that is in need of costly maintenance and separates two Milwaukee neighborhoods from one another. It's plainly obvious why it is under discussion.
The river to the south also 'divides' the neighborhoods, maybe it should be covered/removed as well? Could always split the flow with multiple pipes under the different streets[/semi sarcastic].
And the particularly section is part of a much greater corridor, unlike the Park East which didn't have another higher type road connecting to it on the east end.
If the river divides neighborhoods so badly, why shouldn't we mitigate the barriers we can, you know, actually control, rather than having some childish dream of running them through culverts? Ruining a perfectly good river is a very different beast than tearing down a concrete monstrosity, a huge scar on downtown!
The Lake Parkway really isn't a "higher type" road either. If you've been in the area, you probably noticed that there's an at-grade, signalized intersection at Oklahoma Avenue, south of the Port of Milwaukee... where most trucks would want to go anyways. The south end isn't another freeway... it ends abruptly at Pennsylvania Avenue. There's talks of extending it south to STH-100 (another suburban arterial), but that's it. The higher type road you speak of continues to make the Hoan Bridge live up to its original name: the "Bridge to Nowhere"!
Quote from: Revive 755 on June 24, 2023, 10:19:45 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 24, 2023, 09:35:03 PM
It's a short, elevated freeway that is in need of costly maintenance and separates two Milwaukee neighborhoods from one another. It's plainly obvious why it is under discussion.
The river to the south also 'divides' the neighborhoods, maybe it should be covered/removed as well? Could always split the flow with multiple pipes under the different streets[/semi sarcastic].
And the particularly section is part of a much greater corridor, unlike the Park East which didn't have another higher type road connecting to it on the east end.
BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, let's compare a man-made elevated freeway in need of repair to a river. You know you don't have much of an argument when that's your comparison.
"When we tore down the Park East, we only got a state-of-the-art arena and a whole district of new restaurants, apartments, and hotels out of it!"
Of the concepts submitted, I think that either Concept 6 with the freeway remaining or Concept 1 with the freeway removal are the best ways to go. Concept 6 Freeway opens up the most land for development while keeping the freeway.
Personally, I would like to see the freeway kept so that it can still be used as an alternate to I-94 heading south of Downtown. The Lake Pkwy is a good alternate. But imagine if this was a surface street and people where getting off of 94 because of an accident which does happen. That's way more traffic than surface streets can handle.
The Interstate 794 Lake Interchange Stakeholder/Business Advisory Committee presentation is located here: https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/se/794lake/794LICPresentation.pdf. I have decided I would support either Alternative 5 or Alternative 6 of the Freeway Improvement Alternatives, since it would move the existing ramps to the right-hand side. As stated before, I strongly oppose freeway removal because I believe the existing freeway provides a needed connection to take traffic of of local surface streets, and provides seamless access from the rest of Milwaukee's freeway network to the Hoan Bridge and the Lake Parkway. I would not want traffic to have to pass through signaled surface streets to connect to the bridge and parkway, and also believe there is too much traffic on the east-west segment of 794 to warrant moving all traffic onto surface streets.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 25, 2023, 02:01:57 PM
The Interstate 794 Lake Interchange Stakeholder/Business Advisory Committee presentation is located here: https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/se/794lake/794LICPresentation.pdf. I have decided I would support either Alternative 5 or Alternative 6 of the Freeway Improvement Alternatives, since it would move the existing ramps to the right-hand side. As stated before, I strongly oppose freeway removal because I believe the existing freeway provides a needed connection to take traffic of of local surface streets, and provides seamless access from the rest of Milwaukee's freeway network to the Hoan Bridge and the Lake Parkway. I would not want traffic to have to pass through signaled surface streets to connect to the bridge and parkway, and also believe there is too much traffic on the east-west segment of 794 to warrant moving all traffic onto surface streets.
I think the streets that would suffer the most are the major E/W streets on the south side that connect 794 and 43/94 - Howard, Holt, Oklahoma, Lincoln. Traffic going to and from those areas would no longer use 794, but rather 43/94 down to one of those exits. Hoan Bridge traffic (42k AADT) would dump onto Lincoln Memorial, which would intersect with St. Paul and Clybourn. Seems like it would flow better if it was just Clybourn but whatever. Those intersections would definitely be congested, but other than that I don't think there would be many issues. Traffic headed from south Milwaukee to the west side of downtown would use 43, which I don't anticipate being an issue because 94 west of downtown and 43 north of downtown handle more traffic than 43/94 south of downtown, despite being older freeways designed to handle less than 43/94.
Quote from: thspfc on June 25, 2023, 03:56:20 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 25, 2023, 02:01:57 PM
The Interstate 794 Lake Interchange Stakeholder/Business Advisory Committee presentation is located here: https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/se/794lake/794LICPresentation.pdf. I have decided I would support either Alternative 5 or Alternative 6 of the Freeway Improvement Alternatives, since it would move the existing ramps to the right-hand side. As stated before, I strongly oppose freeway removal because I believe the existing freeway provides a needed connection to take traffic of of local surface streets, and provides seamless access from the rest of Milwaukee's freeway network to the Hoan Bridge and the Lake Parkway. I would not want traffic to have to pass through signaled surface streets to connect to the bridge and parkway, and also believe there is too much traffic on the east-west segment of 794 to warrant moving all traffic onto surface streets.
I think the streets that would suffer the most are the major E/W streets on the south side that connect 794 and 43/94 - Howard, Holt, Oklahoma, Lincoln. Traffic going to and from those areas would no longer use 794, but rather 43/94 down to one of those exits. Hoan Bridge traffic (42k AADT) would dump onto Lincoln Memorial, which would intersect with St. Paul and Clybourn. Seems like it would flow better if it was just Clybourn but whatever. Those intersections would definitely be congested, but other than that I don't think there would be many issues. Traffic headed from south Milwaukee to the west side of downtown would use 43, which I don't anticipate being an issue because 94 west of downtown and 43 north of downtown handle more traffic than 43/94 south of downtown, despite being older freeways designed to handle less than 43/94.
Exactly. The doomsayers are exaggerating like they usually do.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2023, 07:43:53 AM
BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, let's compare a man-made elevated freeway in need of repair to a river. You know you don't have much of an argument when that's your comparison.
Which one is the bigger divider: The river with relatively few crossing or the freeway which is quite easy to get under?
Quote from: Revive 755 on June 25, 2023, 09:55:34 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2023, 07:43:53 AM
BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, let's compare a man-made elevated freeway in need of repair to a river. You know you don't have much of an argument when that's your comparison.
Which one is the bigger divider: The river with relatively few crossing or the freeway which is quite easy to get under?
I'd say the one that requires crossing two busy signalized intersections at off-ramps, as well as possibly walking through a homeless encampment or at best a musty underpass riddled with trash.
And think about the impact that each have on the surrounding community. Freeways are loud, dirty, and ugly. (Well, I appreciate the aesthetic of good highway infastructure while driving, but while walking or cycling, not so much.) Rivers are quiet and look nice. I'm sure the Milwaukee River isn't squeaky clean, but it's a lot better for the enviornment than a freeway is.
Quote from: Revive 755 on June 25, 2023, 09:55:34 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2023, 07:43:53 AM
BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, let's compare a man-made elevated freeway in need of repair to a river. You know you don't have much of an argument when that's your comparison.
Which one is the bigger divider: The river with relatively few crossing or the freeway which is quite easy to get under?
Comparing a natural river that drains the city with a man-made structure in need of significant maintenance is quite the stretch. The fact you are doubling-down on that talking point is...something.
Quote from: thspfc on June 25, 2023, 10:35:49 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on June 25, 2023, 09:55:34 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2023, 07:43:53 AM
BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, let's compare a man-made elevated freeway in need of repair to a river. You know you don't have much of an argument when that's your comparison.
Which one is the bigger divider: The river with relatively few crossing or the freeway which is quite easy to get under?
I'd say the one that requires crossing two busy signalized intersections at off-ramps, as well as possibly walking through a homeless encampment or at best a musty underpass riddled with trash.
And think about the impact that each have on the surrounding community. Freeways are loud, dirty, and ugly. (Well, I appreciate the aesthetic of good highway infastructure while driving, but while walking or cycling, not so much.) Rivers are quiet and look nice. I'm sure the Milwaukee River isn't squeaky clean, but it's a lot better for the enviornment than a freeway is.
Yep.
Quote from: Revive 755 on June 25, 2023, 09:55:34 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2023, 07:43:53 AM
BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, let's compare a man-made elevated freeway in need of repair to a river. You know you don't have much of an argument when that's your comparison.
Which one is the bigger divider: The river with relatively few crossing or the freeway which is quite easy to get under?
The Milwaukee River is narrower than I-794 by quite a bit once freeway ramps are included. Not to mention you can actually walk safely and peacefully alongside the river. Rivers tend to bring neighborhoods together as a gathering point. There are also quite a few bridges used by people not in cars around downtown Milwaukee. You might actually notice the bridges if you get out of your car. The only thing freeways gather is cars looking to leave the area. Quite useful when your concert at Summerfest ends but that's about it.
I've already discussed the viability of the teardown option at length in this thread, so I won't go into it again. Suffice to say, I think it'll be fine if they go that route.
Looking at the two teardown concepts, that second one seems to have the Hoan Bridge coming down to street level rather abruptly. Not sure if that'll work out.
Interesting that many of the rebuilt concepts have ramps feeding Cass Street instead of Lincoln Memorial Dr. Gotta be a handful of folks who at the First Wisconsin Center US Bank Center that would appreciate that.
Quote from: skluth on June 26, 2023, 11:31:21 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on June 25, 2023, 09:55:34 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2023, 07:43:53 AM
BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, let's compare a man-made elevated freeway in need of repair to a river. You know you don't have much of an argument when that's your comparison.
Which one is the bigger divider: The river with relatively few crossing or the freeway which is quite easy to get under?
Rivers tend to bring neighborhoods together as a gathering point.
You may want to Google the Milwaukee Bridge Wars. Now that is a fascinating history of the start of the city (cities at the time).
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 28, 2023, 03:34:12 PM
Quote from: skluth on June 26, 2023, 11:31:21 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on June 25, 2023, 09:55:34 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2023, 07:43:53 AM
BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, let's compare a man-made elevated freeway in need of repair to a river. You know you don't have much of an argument when that's your comparison.
Which one is the bigger divider: The river with relatively few crossing or the freeway which is quite easy to get under?
Rivers tend to bring neighborhoods together as a gathering point.
You may want to Google the Milwaukee Bridge Wars. Now that is a fascinating history of the start of the city (cities at the time).
I grew up in Wisconsin. The bridge wars were taught to us in grade school. While the streets laid out by Juneau and Kilbourn may not have aligned, both cities were defined by their accesses to the Milwaukee River.
Taking a quick scan through the presentation, in terms of freeway improvement proposals, I like Concept 5 best. I think the freeway in some form needs to stay, and tightening the amount of space used seems like the best compromise. I continue to think it would be ridiculous to have blocks of surface road between the Marquette Interchange and the Hoan Bridge. That seems like a step backwards for connectivity. Having the freeway redundancy would also be useful. If Third Ward and Summerfest have been able to thrive even with 794 there, I don't see why it's necessary to remove the freeway.
If they had to choose a removal proposal, I prefer Proposal 2. I question the grades needed to accomplish that bridge connection to the Marquette Interchange though. But frankly, I don't like either of those proposals. The west leg and the south leg are connected by an acute angle. That just makes the connection even worse than it would need to be. I really think they could've done better with that, and maybe they will develop other alternatives if the removal opinion grows stronger.
For now, I strongly support a freeway rebuild. No to removal. I will be following this as the process continues.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on June 30, 2023, 01:13:25 PM
I think the freeway in some form needs to stay, and tightening the amount of space used seems like the best compromise. I continue to think it would be ridiculous to have blocks of surface road between the Marquette Interchange and the Hoan Bridge. That seems like a step backwards for connectivity. Having the freeway redundancy would also be useful. If Third Ward and Summerfest have been able to thrive even with 794 there, I don't see why it's necessary to remove the freeway.
" A step backwards for connectivity" is just fine with me if it means improving the city as a whole.
Third Ward and Summerfest are indeed fine, but why can't we add a few more blocks' worth of thriving city?
I don't think removing freeways is necessary for a city to thrive. As long as money is invested to keep crime down, keep neighborhoods from deteriorating, and infrastructure is kept up to par, any city can thrive. It also doesn't hurt to improve mobility, although different cities have different needs.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 30, 2023, 03:53:24 PM
I don't think removing freeways is necessary for a city to thrive. As long as money is invested to keep crime down, keep neighborhoods from deteriorating, and infrastructure is kept up to par, any city can thrive. It also doesn't hurt to improve mobility, although different cities have different needs.
Removing that particular freeway would help though.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 30, 2023, 03:53:24 PM
I don't think removing freeways is necessary for a city to thrive. As long as money is invested to keep crime down, keep neighborhoods from deteriorating, and infrastructure is kept up to par, any city can thrive. It also doesn't hurt to improve mobility, although different cities have different needs.
Just because it's not
necessary doesn't mean it wouldn't help at all.
For those who keep a copy of the MUTCD, this sign may look familiar to you:
(https://www.proggio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/highway-exit-sign_32714.png)
But at the actual I-43/I-94 split (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0310735,-87.9226276,3a,56.1y,21.32h,100.56t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sDg_bs_sYX7jXdRZ8_MorCA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DDg_bs_sYX7jXdRZ8_MorCA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D140.97722%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), no such signs exist; in fact, the interchange is not at all what the sample sign may have implied. Plus, the control city is Madison for I-94 WB as expected, with no mention of Brookfield at all, and there's also another sign for the first exit off I-43 NB (Exit 72A/Michigan St/10th St). While I-94 does have an Exit 310, it's not marked for I-43 in the WB direction, but in the EB direction, I-43 NB is marked as Exit 310B; I-794 is Exit 310C on both directions. This reminds me a lot of the discussion about a similarly-mislabeled interchange in CT (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=2126.msg46854#msg46854), and I though I'd bring this up for the uninformed.
Instead of Brookfield, I would include Waukesha in addition to Madison on the sign. After all, Waukesha is larger than Brookfield.
"West Suburbs"?
:rofl:
Mike
As Froggie commented in the CT example thread, it's just a sample and people don't need to get burned up about this.
Brookfield as a control city... :-D :-D
Brookfield: We have the fourth best mall in the area!
About 10 years ago the SEWRPC recommended a 6 mile extension of Wis 794/Lake Parkway to Wis 100. It doesn't seem like anything has happened since it was pit in the 2035 comprehensive plan. Is all the momentum gone to have this built? Here's a link to the study, recommendation, and preferred alternative:
https://www.sewrpc.org/SEWRPCFiles/Publications/mr/mr-201-lake-parkway-extension.pdf
I would totally support an extension of the Lake Parkway (the extension would go past the house my paternal grandparents once lived in). However, given that the Lake Parkway extension was first proposed in 2010, and no movement has been made to plan, fund, and construct such an extension, it appears that it will lie dormant for a long time to come (it might even be dead).
The SE Wisconsin Regional Planning Commission has a bunch of ideas on its site that are absolutely going nowhere. They still have the US-12 relocation plan between Elkhorn and Whitewater on there!
Until a project gets listed on the WIDOT site, its best to view this as thought-pieces instead of active plans.
It can be tempting to read too much into SEWRPC's ideas about the freeway network since many of the rebuilds/expansions in the last 20 years seem to be rooted in their proposals in that document. But they are just recommendations from a committee, basically.
Extending the Lake Parkway just to College Ave would involve some fairly significant r/w impacts to several light industrial properties and the new USPS distribution facility they put in less than 10 years ago. Tough sell this day in age to build new highways in already built-up areas to begin with. I think the ship has sailed on this idea. Someone at SEWRPC clinging to the mid-20th century notion of the Lake Freeway extending all the way to Illinois.
Here is a story from Wisconsin Watch about flooding concerns due to the Interstate 94 expansion project: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/milwaukee-residents-fear-more-flooding-due-to-planned-i-94-expansion/ar-AA1f59vA?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=e7d755586c3245d48d1844ee152db8d2&ei=52.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 10, 2023, 12:07:53 PM
Here is a story from Wisconsin Watch about flooding concerns due to the Interstate 94 expansion project: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/milwaukee-residents-fear-more-flooding-due-to-planned-i-94-expansion/ar-AA1f59vA?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=e7d755586c3245d48d1844ee152db8d2&ei=52.
Those Story Hill NIMBYs will never shut up won't they? Fabricating stuff, folks, they're not gonna just plunk down a highway and not deal with the water from it. It's all figured out. What a joke.
Quote from: colinstu on August 10, 2023, 12:09:09 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 10, 2023, 12:07:53 PM
Here is a story from Wisconsin Watch about flooding concerns due to the Interstate 94 expansion project: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/milwaukee-residents-fear-more-flooding-due-to-planned-i-94-expansion/ar-AA1f59vA?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=e7d755586c3245d48d1844ee152db8d2&ei=52.
Those Story Hill NIMBYs will never shut up won't they? Fabricating stuff, folks, they're not gonna just plunk down a highway and not deal with the water from it. It's all figured out. What a joke.
Eh. Can't really blame them for worrying about the impacts of a highway expansion through their neighborhood.
If anything, the flooding potential after this project will be better, not worse. Because when this freeway was built in the 60's, there was no understanding of the usefulness of detaining and delaying runoff. They just tried to shunt rainfall into the closest waterway to get it flowing away from whatever it is they were building. That was the mentality back then.
Now we have a much more complete understanding of how urban surfaces interact with rainfall and snowmelt. We know to include infrastructure that softens the surge of runoff flowing from impermeable surfaces. You'll never see concrete-lined ditches along newly built or rebuilt roads (excepting some rare situations.) They know to use rip-rap instead because that slows the flow of run off. They also know to build retention features into the drainage system, including having little check dams in the ditch to slow the flow of run off and reduce the potential discharge peak in local streams like the Menomonee River or Honey Creek in this case.
If someone wants to be against this reconstruction project; fine. There are plenty of understandable reasons to do so. Why include one that is not only not going to materialize, but get better?
The annoying thing is, because this is just one project going on in a large, mostly urbanized watershed with lots of changes to impermeable surfaces every single year, there very well could be a net increase in peak discharges during rain events by the time the freeway project is complete. But only because they built a new subdivision way up in Germantown and someone repaved a parking lot over by Penzy Spices and a new warehouse went up in Menomonee Falls. And these people will blame it on the I-94 expansion project even though it will add less water to the river than it does now.
Approved!
The Feds gave their final approval to the planned 8-lane upgrade of the I-94 east-West Freeway, rejecting all civil rights objections. This $1.2B 'big shovel' project is now set to begin construction next year.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/business/2024/03/08/i-94-freeway-widening-on-milwaukees-west-side-wins-federal-approval/72900165007/
Enjoy! :cool:
Mike
Good news! This project is long overdue. Hopefully it proceeds as planned.
Quote from: Big John on March 10, 2024, 08:02:17 PM
I wonder how they will handle the cemetery west of Brewers Stadium.
Basically just not gonna have shoulders thru there.