New York State Thruway

[mrsman]

keep in mind that the existing interchange at Western Ave would need to be demolished in order for those ramps to fit

I don't think that's the case.  Some years back (on some fictional thread), I figured out a way to retain the partial interchange at Western and still build that direct Northway-Thruway South connection.

At one point about ten or so years ago, the Thruway had a proposal to build those ramps as EZ-Pass only on their website. Nothing happened and it disappeared from the website. I believe the proposal would have retained the current Western Ave. interchange.


iPad

And this is largely the point of the whole discussion that we've had up here.  The old toll booths and the double trumpet ramps that enable them would simply not fit - so no discussion of fininshing the connection between Thruway and Northway was even contemplated.

Then, as EZ-Pass came in to be, the technology allowed for less expansive direct ramps, but doing so would be somewhat difficult as the ramps would only be available for EZ-=Pass customers only.  I know that the Penn Turnpike built a few ramps like that, but those were for ramps to access office parks, not a major regional connection like Thruway to Northway.  To the extent that you have a lot of non-local drivers who would want to make that movement, many of which do not have an EZ-Pass, you would not want to encourage a movement that has such complexity.

Now in the AET era, we can contemplate direct ramps that are open to everyone. 

I imagine if a Thruway exit for NY-85 were contemplated, the U-shaped ramps to I-90 are retained, and the Northway exit for Western Ave were converted to a half-diamond, direct ramps between the Thruway and Northway can be placed without adverse traffic effects.  Fewer turning movements would be needed at the 87/90 interchange, as more traffic would be directed to straight movements.  While not restricting access from the Thruway to Northway connection only to long distance traffic, with the retention of the U-shaped ramps and the connection to NY-85, very little local traffic would have a use for the Thruway to Northway connection. 

[kalvado]

Something happened with Castleton Bridge (one connecting exit 21A to B1-B3):
https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Castleton-Bridge-closed-westbound-for-emergency-16565304.php
Lets hope it is something small, not another "bridge closed for a few months, thanks god it didn't collapse" type of problem.

[lstone19]

Something happened with Castleton Bridge (one connecting exit 21A to B1-B3):
https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Castleton-Bridge-closed-westbound-for-emergency-16565304.php
Lets hope it is something small, not another "bridge closed for a few months, thanks god it didn't collapse" type of problem.

That's behind a paywall so could only see a little of it.

To further confuse things, the home page of the Thruway's website says "Road Closure I-90 Westbound beyond exit B1 due to emergency maintenance: All traffic must use Exit B1." Of course, I-90 leaves the Thruway at Exit B1 so it's the unnumbered Thruway, not I-90, that's closed beyond exit B1.

[webny99]

All westbound traffic must exit I-90 at Exit B1 and was being encouraged to reconnect with the Thruway at Exit 24 in Albany.

... but what about those headed for the Thruway southbound? That's a very long detour with not a lot of alternatives. Would US 9 all the way to NY 23 be a good alternate?

[kalvado]

All westbound traffic must exit I-90 at Exit B1 and was being encouraged to reconnect with the Thruway at Exit 24 in Albany.

... but what about those headed for the Thruway southbound? That's a very long detour with not a lot of alternatives. Would US 9 all the way to NY 23 be a good alternate?

Taconic would work for cars. Trucks.... I would dare saying that going to I-91 for most cases would be a good idea, 9 goes through too many towns

[froggie]

Long haul truckers who are east of 91 are probably not going to take the Mass Pike/Berkshire Spur to the southbound Thruway to begin with.  If they're already on the Berkshire Spur, backtracking to 91 is definitely NOT going to happen...too far, too long, and having to pay the Mass Pike tolls again.

9H can be used to avoid most of the towns along 9 that kalvado is referencing.

[webny99]

Long haul truckers who are east of 91 are probably not going to take the Mass Pike/Berkshire Spur to the southbound Thruway to begin with.  If they're already on the Berkshire Spur, backtracking to 91 is definitely NOT going to happen...too far, too long, and having to pay the Mass Pike tolls again.

Certainly agreed on that point... I was mostly just thinking of options that avoided backtracking north to I-787 before heading south again, but doing that is still a much smaller backtrack than I-91 if you're already west of I-91, as I would assume most people making that movement are.

9H can be used to avoid most of the towns along 9 that kalvado is referencing.

9H doesn't look like a bad route, but you've still got to deal with Hudson or backtrack on US 9 to get to the Rip Van Winkle Bridge.

[kalvado]

Long haul truckers who are east of 91 are probably not going to take the Mass Pike/Berkshire Spur to the southbound Thruway to begin with.  If they're already on the Berkshire Spur, backtracking to 91 is definitely NOT going to happen...too far, too long, and having to pay the Mass Pike tolls again.

9H can be used to avoid most of the towns along 9 that kalvado is referencing.

And while we're at this... What is the deal with the alphabet soup of all the 9's?

[empirestate]

9H doesn't look like a bad route, but you've still got to deal with Hudson or backtrack on US 9 to get to the Rip Van Winkle Bridge.

At that point you may as well head on south to the Rhinecliff Bridge, unless you're bound for Greene County.

And while we're at this... What is the deal with the alphabet soup of all the 9's?

Depends what you mean by "deal," I guess. New York is fairly well known (in our circles) for having a series of suffixed routes to show a relation to a long main route. Generally, though not always, the suffixed routes avoid the towns and cities while US 9 (and US 9W) goes through them.

One interesting exception is NY 9D, which goes through Cold Spring, Beacon and Wappingers Falls while US 9 avoids them–yet still manages to be the much more heavily trafficked route. (However, the stretch between Wappingers Falls and the Newburgh-Beacon Bridge often backs up heavily, as it is the only way to reach much of that area.)

[Alps]

Something happened with Castleton Bridge (one connecting exit 21A to B1-B3):
https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Castleton-Bridge-closed-westbound-for-emergency-16565304.php
Lets hope it is something small, not another "bridge closed for a few months, thanks god it didn't collapse" type of problem.

That's behind a paywall so could only see a little of it.

To further confuse things, the home page of the Thruway's website says "Road Closure I-90 Westbound beyond exit B1 due to emergency maintenance: All traffic must use Exit B1." Of course, I-90 leaves the Thruway at Exit B1 so it's the unnumbered Thruway, not I-90, that's closed beyond exit B1.

Click on it, and as soon as you see the title text, hit Ctrl+A C. That selects all and then copies it before the paywall rushes in to ruin the view. Paste it in Notepad, Word, etc. and you can read the text.

CASTLETON – A need for emergency pothole repairs closed the westbound side of the Castleton Bridge, a heavily traveled span that links the Berkshire Spur of Interstate 90 to the Thruway.

The bridge has been undergoing renovations for months and lanes on the bridge have been closed to accommodate crews working on the span.

The Thruway Authority announced the closure late Tuesday morning.

Before the closure, there was just one lane of traffic moving in each direction. Closure of the westbound lane forced the detour.

All westbound traffic must exit I-90 at Exit B1 and was being encouraged to reconnect with the Thruway at Exit 24 in Albany.

The temporary closure has not caused any significant traffic backups but motorists should pick other routes to avoid delays, according to the Thruway Authority. The portion of I-90 that travels through Rensselaer and Albany north of the Berkshire Spur is the only nearby highway route that links westbound travelers to the Thruway.

[Alps]

Long haul truckers who are east of 91 are probably not going to take the Mass Pike/Berkshire Spur to the southbound Thruway to begin with.  If they're already on the Berkshire Spur, backtracking to 91 is definitely NOT going to happen...too far, too long, and having to pay the Mass Pike tolls again.

9H can be used to avoid most of the towns along 9 that kalvado is referencing.

I would expect 90-787-87 to be the default alternative for trucks as far as what the state would prefer.

[vdeane]

Earlier today, Google was suggesting I-90->I-787.  Right now it's suggesting US 9->NY 9H->NY 66->local streets (bike route 23)->US 9->NY 23.  That only saves two minutes over I-90->I-787, and avoids this stop sign.  Keeping it on numbered routes going through Hudson brings the route to time parity.

While NY 9H still goes through Hudson, it's worth nothing that the worst delays with US 9 in that area are in the northern suburbs (which NY 9H bypasses), not Hudson itself.  Most of the core business area is along NY 23B anyways.

[Mr. Matté]

Click on it, and as soon as you see the title text, hit Ctrl+A C. That selects all and then copies it before the paywall rushes in to ruin the view. Paste it in Notepad, Word, etc. and you can read the text.

Or, to the chagrin of the Missouri governor, use "inspect element" to manually delete out the boxes blocking the view; typically scrolling can be restored by deleting any parts of code with "overflow:hidden".

[Roadgeek Adam]

Off topic, but the rubble pile they left at the Ripley (61) toll barrier is gone, replaced by high hill of grass and dirt.

The tandem lots are now well signed. Unfortunately, the flasher for a "toll booth" is still there going EB and they are still flashing for no reason. They are also repaving the Thruway through there, like the booths on the exits.

[02 Park Ave]

Something happened with Castleton Bridge (one connecting exit 21A to B1-B3):
https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Castleton-Bridge-closed-westbound-for-emergency-16565304.php
Lets hope it is something small, not another "bridge closed for a few months, thanks god it didn't collapse" type of problem.

The bridge was reopened at 4:30 this afternoon to westbound traffic.

[vdeane]

I was on most of free 90 today, and the VMS on I-90 west in Rensselaer County did indeed indicate I-90->I-787 as the official detour.  Also, it's amazing how many trucks there were out on the road.  It's easy to think of the Castleton-on-Hudson Bridge as not being used much, but trucks clearly use it (also, dealing with tandems on non-Thruway roads is weird).

[webny99]

I was on most of free 90 today, and the VMS on I-90 west in Rensselaer County did indeed indicate I-90->I-787 as the official detour.  Also, it's amazing how many trucks there were out on the road.  It's easy to think of the Castleton-on-Hudson Bridge as not being used much, but trucks clearly use it (also, dealing with tandems on non-Thruway roads is weird).

Yeah, the Castleton-on-Hudson always seems to have a lot of truck traffic every time I've been on it (most recently last month). I would imagine trucks are far more likely to opt for that route over free I-90, while it's probably closer to 50/50 among car traffic (not to mention the trucks crossing the Hudson and heading south on I-87.. I'm sure there's plenty of those as well).

[froggie]

I was on most of free 90 today, and the VMS on I-90 west in Rensselaer County did indeed indicate I-90->I-787 as the official detour.  Also, it's amazing how many trucks there were out on the road.  It's easy to think of the Castleton-on-Hudson Bridge as not being used much, but trucks clearly use it (also, dealing with tandems on non-Thruway roads is weird).

Yeah, the Castleton-on-Hudson always seems to have a lot of truck traffic every time I've been on it (most recently last month). I would imagine trucks are far more likely to opt for that route over free I-90, while it's probably closer to 50/50 among car traffic (not to mention the trucks crossing the Hudson and heading south on I-87.. I'm sure there's plenty of those as well).

Traffic and truck volume data from NYSDOT & NYSTA would surprise you then.  The data from 2018 (most recent year in the most recent NYSDOT report) indicates that virtually ALL of the truck traffic on the Castleton-on-Hudson bridge is turning north towards Albany at the Thruway mainline.  Approximately 1400 trucks a day out of 17K ADT total (so ~8% trucks).  Only about 3100 of that 17K coming off the bridge is turning south on the Thruway (almost all of it passenger vehicles).

At Exit B1, virtually all of the truck traffic coming from the bridge is continuing on the Berkshire Spur towards MA.  Approximately 2600 vpd (almost all passenger vehicles, same as above) exit from the bridge at B1 onto Free 90.

The traffic/truck data further suggests that, coming from MA, it's roughly a 2-1 split for trucks taking Free 90 versus going over the bridge while there are slightly more cars (~2K) taking the bridge versus turning north along Free 90.

[webny99]

Traffic and truck volume data from NYSDOT & NYSTA would surprise you then.  The data from 2018 (most recent year in the most recent NYSDOT report) indicates that virtually ALL of the truck traffic on the Castleton-on-Hudson bridge is turning north towards Albany at the Thruway mainline.  Approximately 1400 trucks a day out of 17K ADT total (so ~8% trucks).  Only about 3100 of that 17K coming off the bridge is turning south on the Thruway (almost all of it passenger vehicles).

8% trucks? That seems very low.

Poor word choice on my part though, as I didn't mean to make it sound like there are tons of trucks turning south on I-87, but I'm sure there are at least some. Of course, you would expect most traffic (both cars and trucks) to be turning north there.

At Exit B1, virtually all of the truck traffic coming from the bridge is continuing on the Berkshire Spur towards MA.  Approximately 2600 vpd (almost all passenger vehicles, same as above) exit from the bridge at B1 onto Free 90.

I'm not sure this is relevant to my point, but it's certainly not surprising. That's almost exclusively a local movement for traffic to/from Albany's southeastern suburbs and points south (and to a lesser extent as an access point to US 9 from points west). Any long-distance traffic would continue on I-87 to most parts of the Albany area, so I wouldn't expect many trucks to be making that movement.

In fact, I've always thought it strange that the B1 interchange is configured so that through traffic on I-90 eastbound has to take the loop ramp... it should be the other way around.

[vdeane]

Looking at the traffic data, the parts of the Thruway I looked at tend to have truck percentages around 20%, as does I-90 as it exits off at B1.  It then drops a lot past exit 12 (truck stop) and is 9% west of there, so that's why it's lower; the truck traffic is split between the two.

[webny99]

Looking at the traffic data, the parts of the Thruway I looked at tend to have truck percentages around 20%, as does I-90 as it exits off at B1.  It then drops a lot past exit 12 (truck stop) and is 9% west of there, so that's why it's lower; the truck traffic is split between the two.

I guess the Castleton-on-Hudson just isn't very busy by Thruway standards, period. Doesn't change the fact that it's had plenty of truck traffic every time I've been on it, but I suppose it makes sense that some trucks are shunpiking it just like some cars are.

[RobbieL2415]

Looking at the traffic data, the parts of the Thruway I looked at tend to have truck percentages around 20%, as does I-90 as it exits off at B1.  It then drops a lot past exit 12 (truck stop) and is 9% west of there, so that's why it's lower; the truck traffic is split between the two.

I guess the Castleton-on-Hudson just isn't very busy by Thruway standards, period. Doesn't change the fact that it's had plenty of truck traffic every time I've been on it, but I suppose it makes sense that some trucks are shunpiking it just like some cars are.

Now THERE's a bridge that's in a sorry state.
One lane is always closed on that bridge because they're fixing something.

[webny99]

^ Yeah, in case you weren't aware, this entire discussion stemmed from a full westbound closure earlier this week...

[shadyjay]

Looks like the New England Thruway's "Last Mile" construction project has been completed. 

And, from the people that brought you "Bryam"....
There's a Facebook post on the Thruway's FB page that shows the new signage on the ramp from I-95 South to I-287 West.  On the ramp, there's a split for Midland Ave and I-287, however the I-287 pull-through lacks an I-287 shield.  Instead, it just says "Cross Westchester Expy/White Plains/Gov Mario M Cuomo Br". 

Looks like there's some new diagrammatic SB signage for the I-95 South to I-287 exit.  Did they put one of these up in CT as well, to replace the existing Exit 21 1 mile advance?

[webny99]

Another general Thruway note: noticed last weekend that the signage on the approaches to the Thruway from I-490 EB and NY 332 has seen MAJOR improvements/upgrades. There's now 1 mile and 1/2 mile advances on NY 332, and at least three overhead advance signs on I-490. WB I-490 between the Thruway and Exit 29 also has new signage, including at least one new overhead.

I'm impressed, for the most part. Signage improvements to Thruway approaches were badly needed, so hopefully other exits have seen changes as well. I'll have to grab some pictures next time I'm out that way.