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[seicer]

The argument about prime farmland is valid as it's some of the best soils in the nation - thanks to glacial deposits. But if there are no farmland protection programs in place, either through easements or conservation groups, then the point is moot because it stands to get developed over because of unchecked growth.

[thenetwork]

My slightly less cynical take: "After spending a lot of taxpayer money, we have come to the conclusion that whatever needs to be done is not affordable. So we will do nothing for the time being. And as things get worse, we will spend more money on more studies to see if what is needed can somehow become affordable."

My sightly more generous interpretation:

We understand that this needs to be done, but the cost to do it right is just too high, so we're going to look into how we can half-ass it with bandaid fixes.

Two words:  Super-2!

They did that a lot in the 60's in NEOH (US 42, OH 57, OH 44, OH 585 [nee OH 5] and they are STILL Super-2s.  At least for most of these sections:  They are still high speed limited access highways with very little change in the amount of congestion in and around those areas.

Get the ROW before it gets developed and at least 2-lane it with some sort of ramp system at selected intersections.  ANYTHING with limited access will help the problem now and in the future!

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

A summary of the Route 23 Connect: Delaware Regional Connection Study showed that doing nothing was the second-best option among the seven presented to the public.

https://www.delgazette.com/top-stories/96469/study-summarizes-options-for-us-23-considered-by-odot

[vtk]

We are running out of good farmland.

The argument about prime farmland is valid as it's some of the best soils in the nation - thanks to glacial deposits.

If that's true, then why isn't all the farmable rural land being farmed? Why has some of the land farmed a century ago been allowed to revert to woods? If the demand for food is so much that the farmland we have can't produce enough, then why is the harvested product so cheap that the US government subsidizes its cultivation? It just doesn't make sense, within the framework of my understanding of economics, land use, and US agricultural policy (though I don't claim to be an expert on those subjects).

[vtk]

A summary of the Route 23 Connect: Delaware Regional Connection Study showed that doing nothing was the second-best option among the seven presented to the public.

That's a very misleading statement of ODOT's findings. No-build did have the second-best total of positive scores, but it was followed closely by concept E1 by that measure, and it also had the worst total of negative scores. Taking both the negative and positive, concept C1 is a clear winner, no-build has a much weaker positive score, and the other concepts have neutral to weakly negative scores.

It's like if someone asks about the tallest occupiable structures in the District if Columbia, and you start off by saying "the Capitol is the second tallest", ramble for a few minutes, and then casually mention that the Washington Monument is significantly taller than the Capitol.

[skluth]

We are running out of good farmland.

The argument about prime farmland is valid as it's some of the best soils in the nation - thanks to glacial deposits.

If that's true, then why isn't all the farmable rural land being farmed? Why has some of the land farmed a century ago been allowed to revert to woods? If the demand for food is so much that the farmland we have can't produce enough, then why is the harvested product so cheap that the US government subsidizes its cultivation? It just doesn't make sense, within the framework of my understanding of economics, land use, and US agricultural policy (though I don't claim to be an expert on those subjects).

Strawman argument. Nobody claimed every single acre was prime farmland nor is every landowner required by law to keep land as farmland if they think it is more valuable as forest. Or maybe they just like trees. Most of the woodland north of Columbus is along rivers, probably prone to flooding, and may even be protected wetland. (Farmland is often converted to wetland to replace wetland destroyed elsewhere.) Much of the forested land is adjacent to the Alum Creek Lake reservoir. Undeveloped land along the waterway helps consume much of the excess fertilizer (both from farms and lawns) that might overwhelm the ecosystem further downstream and produces significant problems in the Gulf of Mexico.

A quick visual inspection of the area shows most of it not adjacent to water is not woods. The argument about being prime farmland is a valid one. I think seicer's statement about the lack of any farmland protection program in place is the best counterargument as it then forces the current landowners to make a commitment to their land being prime farmland rather than selling it off to developers for profit.

[seicer]

I just drove all of US 23/OH 15 between Portsmouth and Toledo (en route to Michigan) today. Much of the pavement between Chillicothe and Columbus is unbelievably bad with a lot of patching and one segment set for repaving. But a lot of that has tiny shoulders and traffic was backed up because of several breakdowns - vehicles had nowhere to pull off.

The portion north of I-270 into Delaware County was also frustrating and slow around 11:30 AM. It wasn't bumper to bumper but it was essentially stop-and-go for the entire length. The ROW is getting increasingly congested with a lot of new developments in Franklin County, and I'm not sure that there is going to be available ROW for a full freeway conversation at the rate it's being built out. You'd have to tear down a considerable number of buildings.

North of there, the expressway opens up and the speed limit increases to 65 MPH. The further north you go, the more that I noticed that side road connections were being eliminated. A lot of crossovers had been buried over with sod over the years but it looks like this process is increasing as the highway gets ever more busy.

[TempoNick]

It's an election year and everybody is still mad at DeWine over the lockdowns and the masks. Based on the write up of what happened the last time around, that might have something to do with this. Nevertheless, it needs to be done at least from Columbus to Toledo and if they don't do it now, it will just be more expensive and unaffordable later.

I don't mind C1, but I don't see them tearing through parkland and putting a freeway along a scenic river. The natural connection is to Route 315 and there is a certain beauty about it.

The best/cheapest route is still US 23, with a bypass connecting you to US 36, and then freeway US 36 to I-71.

[TempoNick]

That said, the rest of Route 315 runs along a river, so what's the difference? Blacklick Woods runs along I-70 and that doesn't bother anybody. It's not that great of a river anyway.

[seicer]

It's a state scenic river and a corridor that has generally been preserved north of I-270: https://ohiodnr.gov/go-and-do/plan-a-visit/find-a-property/olentangy-scenic-river

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

That said, the rest of Route 315 runs along a river, so what's the difference? Blacklick Woods runs along I-70 and that doesn't bother anybody. It's not that great of a river anyway.

Comparing Blacklick Creek and the Olentangy River is like comparing Ohio State and Univ. of Michigan.
Living in Central Ohio, I figured you'd know better than that.

[TempoNick]

That said, the rest of Route 315 runs along a river, so what's the difference? Blacklick Woods runs along I-70 and that doesn't bother anybody. It's not that great of a river anyway.

Comparing Blacklick Creek and the Olentangy River is like comparing Ohio State and Univ. of Michigan.
Living in Central Ohio, I figured you'd know better than that.

I was referring to Highland Metro Park or whatever it's called and how Blacklick Woods has a freeway running along one of its boundaries. Come to think of it, Sharon Woods and Blendon Woods also have freeways abutting them. The rest of 315 also runs along the river.

Now Ohio State versus Michigan? Size? OSU. Football? Again, OSU. Educational quality? Michigan is a better school but not by as much as it used to be. Michigan's gone down a tad, Ohio State has come up quite a bit.

[SkyPesos]

I was referring to Highland Metro Park or whatever it's called and how Blacklick Woods has a freeway running along one of its boundaries. Come to think of it, Sharon Woods and Blendon Woods also have freeways abutting them. The rest of 315 also runs along the river.

About Sharon Woods, I-275 crosses it at its narrowest point on a bridge, so it only touches about 800 ft of the park. The rest of the park are a bit away from the freeway.

Regarding all of the parks though, did the freeway or park come first? It's much more difficult to build a freeway next to a park if the park came first, especially nowadays compared to the 1960s, now that the environment is a bigger concern.

[frankenroad]

I was referring to Highland Metro Park or whatever it's called and how Blacklick Woods has a freeway running along one of its boundaries. Come to think of it, Sharon Woods and Blendon Woods also have freeways abutting them. The rest of 315 also runs along the river.

About Sharon Woods, I-275 crosses it at its narrowest point on a bridge, so it only touches about 800 ft of the park. The rest of the park are a bit away from the freeway.

Regarding all of the parks though, did the freeway or park come first? It's much more difficult to build a freeway next to a park if the park came first, especially nowadays compared to the 1960s, now that the environment is a bigger concern.

I believe TempoNick was referring to the Sharon Woods in suburban Columbus, which abuts I-71 and I-270.

In the case of the Sharon Woods in suburban Cincinnati, it was there several decades before I-275 was built.