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Author Topic: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract  (Read 179135 times)

roadman

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Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« on: October 28, 2015, 05:28:52 PM »

Adoption of milepost-based exit numbers in Massachusetts has been discussed as a sidebar in other topics pertaining to Massachusetts.  Because MassDOT has recently let a contract for the conversion process out for bids, I feel that further discussion of this topic deserves a dedicated thread.  As such, I'll start by cross-posting a comment I left on the Massachusetts thread earlier:

Specifications and detail sheets for the MassDOT statewide milepost exit numbering conversion project have just been posted on the Commonwealth of Massachusetts bidding site (as of Tuesday, October 27th):

https://www.commbuys.com/bso/external/bidDetail.sdo?docId=BD-16-1030-0H100-0H002-00000005477&external=true&parentUrl=bid

Bid opening is scheduled for Tuesday, November 17, 2015.
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AMLNet49

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2015, 07:36:08 PM »

Some interesting notes from reviewing the contract:

• Massachusetts treating US-3 and MA-3 as the same route will actually have a tangible effect now, as both the expressway on the south shore and the expressway near lowell follow the same exit numbering system, beginning at 1 in Plymouth and proceeding to 91 near the New Hampshire border.

• The newly numbered Exit 50 on MA-2 near Concord is not included in the exit renumbering contract. This could potentially be problematic if one exit is not on the same numbering system as the rest of the road.

• The previously unnumbered exits on the freeway portions of MA-28 and MA-57 will now be numbered. All freeways that are part of a larger route (including US-6) will be numbered according to the overall length of the route, not the freeway.

• Another US-6 note: the Orleans rotary, which was numbered as Exit 13 N/S until two rounds of replacements ago, will remain unnumbered in the new contract (would have been Exits 90 A/B), as will the interchanges in Truro and Provincetown.

• The MA-128 freeway (after breaking from I-95 in Peabody) will be numbered according to the distance from the southern terminus in Canton. However, since I-95 will be numbered according to distance from the Rhode Island state line, the exits will appear to randomly start at Exit 37 and count up. Also no exits beyond the present Exit 12 will be numbered. Currently Grant Circle is assigned as Exit 11, and the at-grade intersections with MA-127 and MA-127A are assigned Exits 10 and 9. However, none of these three exit numbers are posted in the field under the current signing contract.

• Massachusetts has chosen to not fudge numbers to avoid Exit 0, they will instead be liberally adopting Exit 0, which comes as a surprise to me given their history of assigning the end of a road as Exit 1 under the sequential system. There will be many Exit 0s under the new contract.

• I-290 will finally have its own set of exit numbers, beginning with Exit 0 at I-90/I-395, instead of just using I-395's number set.

• Massachusetts will not be keeping numbers where the mile is only 1 number off from the sequential number. They will be renumbering everything except when the mile and the sequential number are an exact match.

• For suffixed exits, Massachusetts will place a space between the number and letter (34 B instead of 34B). This is a practice that started in the last several years and was first used on MA-24 when Exit 8B (labeled as 8 B) opened. It will be expanded to all suffixed exits. However the "formerly Exit XX" signs will reference the old exit without a space if it did not previously have one.

• The Mass Turnpike from the Allston/Brighton tolls east will be renumbered under this project.

• For some reason, Interstate 93 from current Exit 6 to current Exit 12 and is not included under this contract. Perhaps these numbers will be changed under a sign replacement deal like the Mass Turnpike.

• All of the signs in the Tip O'Neill tunnel are not included under this contract, however signs outside the tunnel for exits contained within it are included.

• Exits along the freeway portions of US-44, US-1, MA-1A and MA-99 will not receive exit numbering under this contract.

• Exits along the super-2 portions of US-44 and MA-88 will not receive exit numbering under this contract.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 07:41:23 PM by AMLNet49 »
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PHLBOS

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2015, 07:36:36 PM »

Having thumbed through the documents (and given a heads-up on a FB post); MA will indeed be using Exit 0, but it's not consistently applied.

I-93's current Exits 1 through 5 will be future 0 through 4; personally, I would've left such alone (and saved some money)... especially since there's no changes for subsequent Exits 6 through 12.  Not to mention the very recent exit tab changes (from Exit 1 to Exits 1B-A) for the I-95 interchange in Canton.

However, I-95 current Exit 1 (partial-interchange w/US 1) at the RI State line will not become Exit 0 but current Exit 2A-B (MA 1A cloverleaf) will become Exit 1A-B.  Isn't having Exit X along with XA, XB no longer kosher with MUTCD/FHWA?

Further north, the Exit 23-24-25 (Recreation Rd./MA 30/I-90) will become Exit 39A-B-C respectively; however, MassDOT is repeating the same mistake it did when it renumbered this stretch some 27-28 years ago.  That mistake being they seem to be still numbering with respect to the southbound order of the ramps rather than the order of the actual roadway crossings. 

With MM-based exit numbering; the exit/interchange number is generally based on where the connecting road crosses the mainline corridor (in this case, I-95) not necessarily the location of the exit ramp(s).  In short, I-90 crosses I-95 south of MA 30; and the northbound ramp order reflects such (the southbound exit ramps do not).  That said, I-90 (current Exit 25/old Exit 50) should be new Exit 39B and MA 30 (current Exit 24/old Exit 51) should be Exit 39C; not the other way around.

The Lowell Connector's numbers will indeed change as well.  No application of Exit 0 here but there will now be Exits 1A-B-C-D-E-F with current Exits 5A-B-C becoming Exits 2A-B-C.

Now the big question: will there be addendums and/or change orders? 

When PA converted its exit numbers, the original plan was to have I-476's Exit 31 (NE Extension Lansdale interchange) become Exit 30 and I-95's Exits 1 though 3 were planned to be renumbered 0 through 2; but those particular changes did not happen.

For suffixed exits, Massachusetts will place a space between the number and letter (34 B instead of 34B). This is a practice that started in the last several years and was first used on MA-24 when Exit 8B (labeled as 8 B) opened.
That's actually the MUTCD standard that's been around for a while and that MassDOT started recently adopting (as you mentioned).  The spacing is to avoid Exit XB being mistaken for Exit X8 at a quick glance.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 07:47:07 PM by PHLBOS »
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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2015, 10:44:55 PM »

One thing I didn't see in the project specs (might have missed it, of course):  How long does MassDOT expect the "FORMERLY EXIT XX" signs to be left standing?
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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2015, 11:47:04 PM »

Having thumbed through the documents (and given a heads-up on a FB post); MA will indeed be using Exit 0, but it's not consistently applied.

I-93's current Exits 1 through 5 will be future 0 through 4; personally, I would've left such alone (and saved some money)... especially since there's no changes for subsequent Exits 6 through 12.  Not to mention the very recent exit tab changes (from Exit 1 to Exits 1B-A) for the I-95 interchange in Canton.

However, I-95 current Exit 1 (partial-interchange w/US 1) at the RI State line will not become Exit 0 but current Exit 2A-B (MA 1A cloverleaf) will become Exit 1A-B.  Isn't having Exit X along with XA, XB no longer kosher with MUTCD/FHWA?

Further north, the Exit 23-24-25 (Recreation Rd./MA 30/I-90) will become Exit 39A-B-C respectively; however, MassDOT is repeating the same mistake it did when it renumbered this stretch some 27-28 years ago.  That mistake being they seem to be still numbering with respect to the southbound order of the ramps rather than the order of the actual roadway crossings. 

With MM-based exit numbering; the exit/interchange number is generally based on where the connecting road crosses the mainline corridor (in this case, I-95) not necessarily the location of the exit ramp(s).  In short, I-90 crosses I-95 south of MA 30; and the northbound ramp order reflects such (the southbound exit ramps do not).  That said, I-90 (current Exit 25/old Exit 50) should be new Exit 39B and MA 30 (current Exit 24/old Exit 51) should be Exit 39C; not the other way around.

The Lowell Connector's numbers will indeed change as well.  No application of Exit 0 here but there will now be Exits 1A-B-C-D-E-F with current Exits 5A-B-C becoming Exits 2A-B-C.

Now the big question: will there be addendums and/or change orders? 

When PA converted its exit numbers, the original plan was to have I-476's Exit 31 (NE Extension Lansdale interchange) become Exit 30 and I-95's Exits 1 though 3 were planned to be renumbered 0 through 2; but those particular changes did not happen.

For suffixed exits, Massachusetts will place a space between the number and letter (34 B instead of 34B). This is a practice that started in the last several years and was first used on MA-24 when Exit 8B (labeled as 8 B) opened.
That's actually the MUTCD standard that's been around for a while and that MassDOT started recently adopting (as you mentioned).  The spacing is to avoid Exit XB being mistaken for Exit X8 at a quick glance.
I agree with much of what was said. Seems MassDOT is making things a little more complicated number-wise than need be. For example I-95 near I-93 in Reading. Heading northbound the current two exits before I-93 northbound are 35 and 36 with I-93 being 37A/B. They want to renumber these as 53, 55A and 55B/C. Wouldn't 53, 54, 55A/B be less confusing? At the top end of MA 3 the last three exits northbound are 17, 19 and 20A/B. Southbound there's a combined ramp for Exits 19/18, then 17. MassDOT wants the numbers NB to be 40, 42A and 42B/C, SB it lists the combined ramp as 42A/41 (why the suffix SB?). Wouldn't it be easier to combine 18 and 19 as 41B and 41A, making NB 41, then 42A/B?

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2015, 10:23:48 AM »

One thing I didn't see in the project specs (might have missed it, of course):  How long does MassDOT expect the "FORMERLY EXIT XX" signs to be left standing?
The "Formerly Exit XX" signs will remain in place for at least two years after the new numbers are posted.  Removal of these signs after that time is not included in this contract, but will be done by District maintenance forces.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 11:18:35 AM by roadman »
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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2015, 11:31:03 AM »

Quote
For some reason, Interstate 93 from current Exit 6 to current Exit 12 and is not included under this contract. Perhaps these numbers will be changed under a sign replacement deal like the Mass Turnpike

As explained in the detail sheets, the current exit numbers from Exit 6 to Exit 12 are being retained because the present sequential numbers match the adjacent mileposts at these locations.
Quote
All of the signs in the Tip O'Neill tunnel are not included under this contract, however signs outside the tunnel for exits contained within it are included.

Signs in the O'Neill and WIlliams Tunnels will have their numbers converted under the pending MHS Tunnels overhead sign repair contract.
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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2015, 03:40:24 PM »

Seems MassDOT is making things a little more complicated number-wise than need be. For example I-95 near I-93 in Reading. Heading northbound the current two exits before I-93 northbound are 35 and 36 with I-93 being 37A/B. They want to renumber these as 53, 55A and 55B/C. Wouldn't 53, 54, 55A/B be less confusing?
I was thinking the exact same thing.

I-95/US 3 Burlington interchange: the proposed exit number for I-95 along US 3 is Exits 70A-B; yet, MM 71 is just prior to the interchange (along C-D lane) along the I-95/US 3 multiplex.  It should be Exit 71A-B.

I-95/MA 128 Peabody interchange: the proposed exit number is 64; yet, MM 65 is located within the interchange itself.  IMHO, it should be Exit 65.

I-95/Centre St. Danvers interchange should be 68 not 67C since MM 68 is located just north of the Centre St. overpass and within the interchange.  Also, since this is a southbound only exit/entrance interchange and the MA 114 interchange (future Exit 67A-B) has only northbound exit ramps (but entrance ramps for both directions); assigning it a suffixed exit number just isn't right.

I-95/MA 62 Danvers (current Exit 49) & I-95/US 1 Danvers/Topsfield (current Exit 50) are palnned to change to Exit 69A and 69B respectively.  Why not just use Exit 69 for MA 62 and Exit 70 for US 1.  MM 70 is located within the US 1 interchange.  Also, MA 62 is a northbound exit/southbound entrance interchange only; I-95 southbounders will only see signs for Exit 69B (US 1) but no 69A (MA 62).

Roadman, I'm sorry, but the project documents IMHO need to be resubmitted prior to bidding; there's way too many issues and even flat-out mistakes on something that should've been straight forward.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2015, 11:29:18 AM by PHLBOS »
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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2015, 11:18:15 AM »

It appears that the large number of suffixed exits is due to the way the exit numbers were assigned. From revising my interstate and US Route future exit numbers based on MassDOT mileposts for each exit and using the new MassDOT exit numbers, it appears they are using a 'round down' system where the number is assigned to the whole number on the milepost. Thus an exit at mile 1.20 or 1.99 is given the number 1. This contrasts with normal rounding where anything past .5 would be rounded up to the next whole number. Thus if you have exits at mileposts 1.1, 1.9 and 3, MassDOT would number them 1A, 1B and 3, as opposed to 1, 2 and 3.

You can check out the revised exit list here: http://www.gribblenation.net/mass21/intexits.html

PHLBOS

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2015, 11:33:18 AM »

It appears that the large number of suffixed exits is due to the way the exit numbers were assigned. From revising my interstate and US Route future exit numbers based on MassDOT mileposts for each exit and using the new MassDOT exit numbers, it appears they are using a 'round down' system where the number is assigned to the whole number on the milepost. Thus an exit at mile 1.20 or 1.99 is given the number 1. This contrasts with normal rounding where anything past .5 would be rounded up to the next whole number. Thus if you have exits at mileposts 1.1, 1.9 and 3, MassDOT would number them 1A, 1B and 3, as opposed to 1, 2 and 3.
That's probably the case, but there's still some inconsistencies (Exit 0 or no Exit 0) in the documents plus no consideration seemed to be taken when renumbering partial-movement interchanges (see my above-examples regarding I-95's interchanges with MA 114, Centre St., MA 62 & US 1 in Danvers) so that there aren't any orphaned suffixed exit numbers.

Looking through the documents again, I noticed that no provision was made to place an exit tab (with the new numbers) on this BGS along MA 128 southbound.

I'm assumming that this BGS was a match-in-kind for the original 1977-vintage one (though I believe the original sign stated the more-correct plural EXITS) that was probably damaged in an accident or vandalized.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2015, 05:32:00 PM by PHLBOS »
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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2015, 07:23:58 PM »

Bids for the exit re-numbering contract were opened on Tuesday, November 17th.  Liddell Brothers of Halifax (MA) is the apparent low responsible bidder.
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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2015, 10:47:07 PM »

Bids for the exit re-numbering contract were opened on Tuesday, November 17th.  Liddell Brothers of Halifax (MA) is the apparent low responsible bidder.
Will MassDOT be issuing a press release about the awarding of this contract or will they wait to issue many statements to specific local media before a particular route is re-numbered? Has there been any determination as to which route will be switched first? IMO I would start with MA 57, since that route is short and has no existing exit numbers.

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2015, 01:59:54 PM »

Bids for the exit re-numbering contract were opened on Tuesday, November 17th.  Liddell Brothers of Halifax (MA) is the apparent low responsible bidder.
Will MassDOT be issuing a press release about the awarding of this contract or will they wait to issue many statements to specific local media before a particular route is re-numbered? Has there been any determination as to which route will be switched first? IMO I would start with MA 57, since that route is short and has no existing exit numbers.

I would hope that there are specific sequencing details in the contract.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2015, 05:08:00 PM »

Which state will make the switch to milepost next?
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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2015, 08:04:02 PM »

Bids for the exit re-numbering contract were opened on Tuesday, November 17th.  Liddell Brothers of Halifax (MA) is the apparent low responsible bidder.
Will MassDOT be issuing a press release about the awarding of this contract or will they wait to issue many statements to specific local media before a particular route is re-numbered? Has there been any determination as to which route will be switched first? IMO I would start with MA 57, since that route is short and has no existing exit numbers.
Note that the contract has not yet been formally awarded to Liddell (which is why I stated "apparent low responsible bidder" in my previous post).  Therefore, I personally doubt that MassDOT will issue a formal press release about contract award until Liddell actually receives their notice to proceed.  As for how MassDOT's PR folks intend to handle public notification of this work as it progresses, I do not know how that will happen at this time and, thus, cannot speak to (or speculate on) that aspect of the project.

As far as scheduling of which routes will be done in what sequence, I strongly suspect that this will be based on location and length of routes.  Nevertheless, both the Contractor's overall schedule and sequence of installation (which is a subset of the overall schedule) will have to be reviewed and approved by MassDOT well before they send crews out to actually install overlays and signs - this will almost certainly be a topic of discussion at the pre-construction conference for the contract.

I could not find this specifically stated in the contract special provisions or detail sheets, however, it is my understanding that it will be a condition of approval of the Contractor's overall schedule and sequence of installation that any given individual route(s) will be re-numbered completely before work on any other route(s) can be started - this is obviously to minimize the amount of time when 'partial' numbers are in place on any given route.  When you compare the quantities in the contract traffic control bid items (850.xxx series items in the bid list) against the total contract duration, they appear to reflect the fact that the Contractor will need to have multiple crews working on one or more routes at the same time. 
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 08:32:44 PM by roadman »
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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2015, 10:16:35 PM »

Which state will make the switch to milepost next?

Depends on if New York's State Assembly actually votes on the conversion bill that the senate has passed repeatedly. Even with that, I'd lean toward New York. I don't know what NYSDOT has planned, but the fact that they gave milepost exit numbers to a previously-unnumbered parkway may mean something.

Of the states that are still sequential and have not begun conversion, New York is really the only one to be putting in true distance-based numbers.
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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2015, 01:15:13 AM »

Which state will make the switch to milepost next?

Depends on if New York's State Assembly actually votes on the conversion bill that the senate has passed repeatedly. Even with that, I'd lean toward New York. I don't know what NYSDOT has planned, but the fact that they gave milepost exit numbers to a previously-unnumbered parkway may mean something.

Of the states that are still sequential and have not begun conversion, New York is really the only one to be putting in true distance-based numbers.
I thought NY began conversion on I-781, though the roadway may not have been open when they switched. But I know they began conversion on I-95 and I-278 - once, years ago.

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2015, 12:18:36 AM »

Which state will make the switch to milepost next?

Depends on if New York's State Assembly actually votes on the conversion bill that the senate has passed repeatedly. Even with that, I'd lean toward New York. I don't know what NYSDOT has planned, but the fact that they gave milepost exit numbers to a previously-unnumbered parkway may mean something.

Of the states that are still sequential and have not begun conversion, New York is really the only one to be putting in true distance-based numbers.
I thought NY began conversion on I-781, though the roadway may not have been open when they switched. But I know they began conversion on I-95 and I-278 - once, years ago.

Which state will make the switch to milepost next?

Depends on if New York's State Assembly actually votes on the conversion bill that the senate has passed repeatedly. Even with that, I'd lean toward New York. I don't know what NYSDOT has planned, but the fact that they gave milepost exit numbers to a previously-unnumbered parkway may mean something.

Of the states that are still sequential and have not begun conversion, New York is really the only one to be putting in true distance-based numbers.
I thought NY began conversion on I-781, though the roadway may not have been open when they switched. But I know they began conversion on I-95 and I-278 - once, years ago.

I'm thinking Hell will freeze over before we see real distance-based numbers on the Thruway, I-81, and the Northway, for example.  Then again, I'd love to be proven wrong.
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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2015, 12:18:11 PM »

Which state will make the switch to milepost next?

Depends on if New York's State Assembly actually votes on the conversion bill that the senate has passed repeatedly. Even with that, I'd lean toward New York. I don't know what NYSDOT has planned, but the fact that they gave milepost exit numbers to a previously-unnumbered parkway may mean something.

Of the states that are still sequential and have not begun conversion, New York is really the only one to be putting in true distance-based numbers.
I thought NY began conversion on I-781, though the roadway may not have been open when they switched. But I know they began conversion on I-95 and I-278 - once, years ago.

Which state will make the switch to milepost next?

Depends on if New York's State Assembly actually votes on the conversion bill that the senate has passed repeatedly. Even with that, I'd lean toward New York. I don't know what NYSDOT has planned, but the fact that they gave milepost exit numbers to a previously-unnumbered parkway may mean something.

Of the states that are still sequential and have not begun conversion, New York is really the only one to be putting in true distance-based numbers.
I thought NY began conversion on I-781, though the roadway may not have been open when they switched. But I know they began conversion on I-95 and I-278 - once, years ago.

I'm thinking Hell will freeze over before we see real distance-based numbers on the Thruway, I-81, and the Northway, for example.  Then again, I'd love to be proven wrong.

I think you're going to see distance-based numbers on the NYSDOT maintained roadways sooner than the Thruway. If I-81 through Syracuse gets ripped down with I-81 rerouted around the city, I'd think that would be a good time to look at renumbering the area.

One thing that frustrates me is that Region 5 replaced every guide panel on NY Route 400 a year or two ago and they didn't take the opportunity to number the interchanges, when the 400 is almost twice as long as I-290 with more exits. It's that "replace in kind" mentality that keeps NYSDOT lagging behind the national standards.
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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2015, 01:21:24 PM »

Which state will make the switch to milepost next?

Depends on if New York's State Assembly actually votes on the conversion bill that the senate has passed repeatedly. Even with that, I'd lean toward New York. I don't know what NYSDOT has planned, but the fact that they gave milepost exit numbers to a previously-unnumbered parkway may mean something.

Of the states that are still sequential and have not begun conversion, New York is really the only one to be putting in true distance-based numbers.
I thought NY began conversion on I-781, though the roadway may not have been open when they switched. But I know they began conversion on I-95 and I-278 - once, years ago.

Which state will make the switch to milepost next?

Depends on if New York's State Assembly actually votes on the conversion bill that the senate has passed repeatedly. Even with that, I'd lean toward New York. I don't know what NYSDOT has planned, but the fact that they gave milepost exit numbers to a previously-unnumbered parkway may mean something.

Of the states that are still sequential and have not begun conversion, New York is really the only one to be putting in true distance-based numbers.
I thought NY began conversion on I-781, though the roadway may not have been open when they switched. But I know they began conversion on I-95 and I-278 - once, years ago.

I'm thinking Hell will freeze over before we see real distance-based numbers on the Thruway, I-81, and the Northway, for example.  Then again, I'd love to be proven wrong.

I think you're going to see distance-based numbers on the NYSDOT maintained roadways sooner than the Thruway. If I-81 through Syracuse gets ripped down with I-81 rerouted around the city, I'd think that would be a good time to look at renumbering the area.

One thing that frustrates me is that Region 5 replaced every guide panel on NY Route 400 a year or two ago and they didn't take the opportunity to number the interchanges, when the 400 is almost twice as long as I-290 with more exits. It's that "replace in kind" mentality that keeps NYSDOT lagging behind the national standards.

They did the same for NY 33. Granted, Region 5 is always a few years behind everyone else.
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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2015, 02:02:34 PM »

Nobody is proactive anymore when it comes to roads.

Yesterday, I was talking about roads with non road geeks, and some remember how states used to keep up with roads and had no problem eliminating potholes and such.  In fact sections of roads used to be removed and it was not just the "fill" they do nowadays, the repaired what caused them instead of placing a band aid on it!

Even my dad remembered that PA used to be one of the best roads in the nation as they always were on top of them.
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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2015, 02:21:24 PM »

Even my dad remembered that PA used to be one of the best roads in the nation as they always were on top of them.

How long ago was that? The roads have sucked even during most of the lives of my parents.
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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2015, 02:24:09 PM »

Which state will make the switch to milepost next?

Depends on if New York's State Assembly actually votes on the conversion bill that the senate has passed repeatedly. Even with that, I'd lean toward New York. I don't know what NYSDOT has planned, but the fact that they gave milepost exit numbers to a previously-unnumbered parkway may mean something.

Of the states that are still sequential and have not begun conversion, New York is really the only one to be putting in true distance-based numbers.
I thought NY began conversion on I-781, though the roadway may not have been open when they switched. But I know they began conversion on I-95 and I-278 - once, years ago.
The plans for I-781 specified sequential but converted to mile-based before it opened.  Interestingly, the exit number for Fort Drum was dropped when this happened.

There were mile-based numbers on I-278?

Which state will make the switch to milepost next?

Depends on if New York's State Assembly actually votes on the conversion bill that the senate has passed repeatedly. Even with that, I'd lean toward New York. I don't know what NYSDOT has planned, but the fact that they gave milepost exit numbers to a previously-unnumbered parkway may mean something.

Of the states that are still sequential and have not begun conversion, New York is really the only one to be putting in true distance-based numbers.
It's died in Assembly committee every time.  I suspect the committee leader just likes sequential and doesn't want to see NY switch.

Which state will make the switch to milepost next?

Depends on if New York's State Assembly actually votes on the conversion bill that the senate has passed repeatedly. Even with that, I'd lean toward New York. I don't know what NYSDOT has planned, but the fact that they gave milepost exit numbers to a previously-unnumbered parkway may mean something.

Of the states that are still sequential and have not begun conversion, New York is really the only one to be putting in true distance-based numbers.
I thought NY began conversion on I-781, though the roadway may not have been open when they switched. But I know they began conversion on I-95 and I-278 - once, years ago.

Which state will make the switch to milepost next?

Depends on if New York's State Assembly actually votes on the conversion bill that the senate has passed repeatedly. Even with that, I'd lean toward New York. I don't know what NYSDOT has planned, but the fact that they gave milepost exit numbers to a previously-unnumbered parkway may mean something.

Of the states that are still sequential and have not begun conversion, New York is really the only one to be putting in true distance-based numbers.
I thought NY began conversion on I-781, though the roadway may not have been open when they switched. But I know they began conversion on I-95 and I-278 - once, years ago.

I'm thinking Hell will freeze over before we see real distance-based numbers on the Thruway, I-81, and the Northway, for example.  Then again, I'd love to be proven wrong.

I think you're going to see distance-based numbers on the NYSDOT maintained roadways sooner than the Thruway. If I-81 through Syracuse gets ripped down with I-81 rerouted around the city, I'd think that would be a good time to look at renumbering the area.
I would think it would be mandatory, since that would force a renumbering of I-81's mileage and exits north of Syracuse if it happened, regardless of whether sequential was still allowed or not.
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roadman65

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2015, 02:25:32 PM »

 To answer you cl it was very long ago.  Like long before I was even born.  My dad used to say when we encountered potholes on I-81 north of Scranton "Oh what happened to Pennsylvania, as they were always great at taking care of their roads?"  This was when I was real young. 

Being my dad graduated in 1942, I would have to say circa 40's and 50's.  Maybe even 1960's, as when I was growing up it was in the 1970's and that, from memory, I can tell you how bad PA was in their roads especially with concrete roads with asphalt patches on them making it more bumpy to drive on them.
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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2015, 03:41:39 PM »

Why doesn't all of New England just adopt mile based exit numbering? 40+ states have done this, why are the other ten or so still behind?
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