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Author Topic: Illinois Tollway Notes  (Read 221772 times)

abefroman329

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #650 on: June 19, 2018, 09:08:35 AM »

Whatever happened to that guy?  If you complained about the weather in Chicago, he'd respond IT'D BE BETTER IF WE BUILT THE HYPOTENUSE!
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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #651 on: June 19, 2018, 12:58:01 PM »

Whatever happened to that guy?  If you complained about the weather in Chicago, he'd respond IT'D BE BETTER IF WE BUILT THE HYPOTENUSE!

I thought he was banned?
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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #652 on: June 19, 2018, 02:41:58 PM »

Whatever happened to that guy?  If you complained about the weather in Chicago, he'd respond IT'D BE BETTER IF WE BUILT THE HYPOTENUSE!

I thought he was banned?

Yep, and the mods correct me if I'm wrong, he got hit with the ban stick.
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edwaleni

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #653 on: June 19, 2018, 05:17:43 PM »

The 2019 Road Atlas no longer shows the proposed 490. Does this mean the proposal is dead. I think it's a bit overkill myself to connect the Elgin O Hare to both 90 and 294. Pick one or the other but really both?

I'm not convinced it's necessary at all given the presence of I-290 and IL-83, but I don't think it make sense to connect IL-390 to I-90 or I-294.

Its all part of the O'Hare Western Access deal that was brokered.

O'Hare would get essentially its last expansion and the western burbs would be allowed to build a western bypass that not only provides passenger access, but physically "ties in" the airport to its current boundaries.

After the deal was struck, Chicago DOT wasted very little time getting their new runways built toot sweet. The state and ISTHA had to slog through the details of finishing their part of fhe deal.

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ET21

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #654 on: June 20, 2018, 08:32:07 AM »

The 2019 Road Atlas no longer shows the proposed 490. Does this mean the proposal is dead. I think it's a bit overkill myself to connect the Elgin O Hare to both 90 and 294. Pick one or the other but really both?

I'm not convinced it's necessary at all given the presence of I-290 and IL-83, but I don't think it make sense to connect IL-390 to I-90 or I-294.

Its all part of the O'Hare Western Access deal that was brokered.

O'Hare would get essentially its last expansion and the western burbs would be allowed to build a western bypass that not only provides passenger access, but physically "ties in" the airport to its current boundaries.

After the deal was struck, Chicago DOT wasted very little time getting their new runways built toot sweet. The state and ISTHA had to slog through the details of finishing their part of fhe deal.

^This

I-490 is gonna help tremendously for the 294/190/90 shitshow and help relieve people going south on 294 by spreading out the flow more.
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Clinched:
IL: I-88, I-180, I-190, I-290, I-294, I-355, IL-390
IN: I-80, I-94
SD: I-190
WI: I-90, I-94
MI: I-94, I-196
MN: I-90

abefroman329

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #655 on: June 20, 2018, 09:01:12 AM »

The 2019 Road Atlas no longer shows the proposed 490. Does this mean the proposal is dead. I think it's a bit overkill myself to connect the Elgin O Hare to both 90 and 294. Pick one or the other but really both?

I'm not convinced it's necessary at all given the presence of I-290 and IL-83, but I don't think it make sense to connect IL-390 to I-90 or I-294.

Its all part of the O'Hare Western Access deal that was brokered.

O'Hare would get essentially its last expansion and the western burbs would be allowed to build a western bypass that not only provides passenger access, but physically "ties in" the airport to its current boundaries.

After the deal was struck, Chicago DOT wasted very little time getting their new runways built toot sweet. The state and ISTHA had to slog through the details of finishing their part of fhe deal.

^This

I-490 is gonna help tremendously for the 294/190/90 shitshow and help relieve people going south on 294 by spreading out the flow more.

The impact on I-190 will be incremental - the latest plans for expansion show the area that was going to be used for the Western Terminal being used for employee parking and employee security screening.  Passengers and anyone else with airport business will still need to use I-190 to access ORD.
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edwaleni

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #656 on: June 20, 2018, 09:20:41 AM »

Western burbs tried for years to build a dedicated transit route for the western access to O'Hare. But the City of Chicago wouldnt have it. Afraid it would drain off parking and terminal services revenue. Even the Elgin-OHare was built with room for a "future transit line" down the middle. (Now since removed)

So when O'Hare wanted to expand yet again, the suburban politicos and planners were in a much better position to dictate.

Even now Chicago absolutely refuses to permit any public transit entering/exiting the airport unless they control it. The one they dont control (Metra) doesnt stop on airport property. Its way out in the rental car return lots and you have to change trains.

So this is why we have tollways being built around OHare. Chicago's paranoia about control and patronage.

Its also why they object to the third airport ( which is a different subject) and said they will file suit if it carries the name "Chicago" on it.
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Joe The Dragon

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #657 on: June 20, 2018, 09:31:53 AM »

Western burbs tried for years to build a dedicated transit route for the western access to O'Hare. But the City of Chicago wouldnt have it. Afraid it would drain off parking and terminal services revenue. Even the Elgin-OHare was built with room for a "future transit line" down the middle. (Now since removed)

So when O'Hare wanted to expand yet again, the suburban politicos and planners were in a much better position to dictate.

Even now Chicago absolutely refuses to permit any public transit entering/exiting the airport unless they control it. The one they dont control (Metra) doesnt stop on airport property. Its way out in the rental car return lots and you have to change trains.

So this is why we have tollways being built around OHare. Chicago's paranoia about control and patronage.

Its also why they object to the third airport ( which is a different subject) and said they will file suit if it carries the name "Chicago" on it.

Well they did try metra star line but then funding did not happen
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SEWIGuy

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #658 on: June 20, 2018, 09:32:38 AM »

Western burbs tried for years to build a dedicated transit route for the western access to O'Hare. But the City of Chicago wouldnt have it. Afraid it would drain off parking and terminal services revenue. Even the Elgin-OHare was built with room for a "future transit line" down the middle. (Now since removed)

So when O'Hare wanted to expand yet again, the suburban politicos and planners were in a much better position to dictate.

Even now Chicago absolutely refuses to permit any public transit entering/exiting the airport unless they control it. The one they dont control (Metra) doesnt stop on airport property. Its way out in the rental car return lots and you have to change trains.

So this is why we have tollways being built around OHare. Chicago's paranoia about control and patronage.

Its also why they object to the third airport ( which is a different subject) and said they will file suit if it carries the name "Chicago" on it.


Does the City of Chicago own the airport?  Are they responsible for the infrastructure investment and paying the bonds that go with it through gate fees, parking fees, etc.?

I believe the answer is yes to both questions.  You can call it "paranoia," but IMO if this were a private business, this is exactly how they would act as well. 
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abefroman329

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #659 on: June 20, 2018, 09:56:00 AM »

Even now Chicago absolutely refuses to permit any public transit entering/exiting the airport unless they control it. The one they dont control (Metra) doesnt stop on airport property. Its way out in the rental car return lots and you have to change trains.
The problem with the Metra line isn't that it doesn't actually enter the airport, it's that there's only infrequent rush hour service on that line, and none on the weekends, and that's on the freight company that owns the line, not the City of Chicago.  And even the people mover extension will be a better solution than the current option (taking a shuttle bus from the station).

Its also why they object to the third airport ( which is a different subject) and said they will file suit if it carries the name "Chicago" on it.
(a) Gary renamed their airport "Gary/Chicago" with no issues, (b) the obstacle to a third airport is the fact that United and American refuse to use it.  Not that I blame them, both they and the airlines they merged with tried service to MDW, and couldn't get it to work.
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abefroman329

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #660 on: June 20, 2018, 09:57:21 AM »

You can call it "paranoia," but IMO if this were a private business, this is exactly how they would act as well.

Yup - taxicab companies, limo companies, charter bus operators, etc. all hate the idea of public transit to airports too.
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ET21

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #661 on: June 20, 2018, 10:45:03 AM »

The 2019 Road Atlas no longer shows the proposed 490. Does this mean the proposal is dead. I think it's a bit overkill myself to connect the Elgin O Hare to both 90 and 294. Pick one or the other but really both?

I'm not convinced it's necessary at all given the presence of I-290 and IL-83, but I don't think it make sense to connect IL-390 to I-90 or I-294.

Its all part of the O'Hare Western Access deal that was brokered.

O'Hare would get essentially its last expansion and the western burbs would be allowed to build a western bypass that not only provides passenger access, but physically "ties in" the airport to its current boundaries.

After the deal was struck, Chicago DOT wasted very little time getting their new runways built toot sweet. The state and ISTHA had to slog through the details of finishing their part of fhe deal.

^This

I-490 is gonna help tremendously for the 294/190/90 shitshow and help relieve people going south on 294 by spreading out the flow more.

The impact on I-190 will be incremental - the latest plans for expansion show the area that was going to be used for the Western Terminal being used for employee parking and employee security screening.  Passengers and anyone else with airport business will still need to use I-190 to access ORD.

Right, but at least have a western loop will still help 294 which is also getting an upgrade. Whether they want to expand eastward or not is up to Chicago, tollway will likely build stubs for a possible eastward expansion whenever the city gets its act together. When all is said and done outside of the airport, 294 and 490 along with 390 will help the general traffic flow across that section of the NW suburbs, especially on roads like Mannheim (12/20/45) and IL-83
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 10:47:12 AM by ET21 »
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The local weatherman, trust me I can be 99.9% right!
"Show where you're going, without forgetting where you're from"

Clinched:
IL: I-88, I-180, I-190, I-290, I-294, I-355, IL-390
IN: I-80, I-94
SD: I-190
WI: I-90, I-94
MI: I-94, I-196
MN: I-90

SEWIGuy

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #662 on: June 20, 2018, 10:51:37 AM »

Even now Chicago absolutely refuses to permit any public transit entering/exiting the airport unless they control it. The one they dont control (Metra) doesnt stop on airport property. Its way out in the rental car return lots and you have to change trains.
The problem with the Metra line isn't that it doesn't actually enter the airport, it's that there's only infrequent rush hour service on that line, and none on the weekends, and that's on the freight company that owns the line, not the City of Chicago.  And even the people mover extension will be a better solution than the current option (taking a shuttle bus from the station).

Its also why they object to the third airport ( which is a different subject) and said they will file suit if it carries the name "Chicago" on it.
(a) Gary renamed their airport "Gary/Chicago" with no issues, (b) the obstacle to a third airport is the fact that United and American refuse to use it.  Not that I blame them, both they and the airlines they merged with tried service to MDW, and couldn't get it to work.


A Chicago third airport would be a huge waste of money.  Expanding O'Hare, along with Midway, Milwaukee, Rockford, etc. is enough to handle the demand.
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Beltway

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #663 on: June 20, 2018, 12:32:36 PM »

Its also why they object to the third airport ( which is a different subject) and said they will file suit if it carries the name "Chicago" on it.

Sites such as near Kankakee or DeKalb have been studied in the past. 

The problem is that they are seriously far from Chicago, and any new major airport anywhere in the U.S. is hard to obtain funding and approval to build.
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Brandon

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #664 on: June 20, 2018, 02:33:34 PM »

Does the City of Chicago own the airport?  Are they responsible for the infrastructure investment and paying the bonds that go with it through gate fees, parking fees, etc.?

I believe the answer is yes to both questions.  You can call it "paranoia," but IMO if this were a private business, this is exactly how they would act as well. 

The answer is an unqualified yes.  The City of Chicago owns and operates both airports.
https://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en/depts/doa.html
https://www.flychicago.com/Pages/default.aspx
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machias

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #665 on: June 20, 2018, 11:25:19 PM »

Its also why they object to the third airport ( which is a different subject) and said they will file suit if it carries the name "Chicago" on it.

Sites such as near Kankakee or DeKalb have been studied in the past. 

The problem is that they are seriously far from Chicago, and any new major airport anywhere in the U.S. is hard to obtain funding and approval to build.

Palwaukee became “Chicago Executive Airport” and it’s a fairly busy airport for business jets and general aviation.
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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #666 on: June 20, 2018, 11:32:54 PM »

Sites such as near Kankakee or DeKalb have been studied in the past. 
The problem is that they are seriously far from Chicago, and any new major airport anywhere in the U.S. is hard to obtain funding and approval to build.
Palwaukee became “Chicago Executive Airport” and it’s a fairly busy airport for business jets and general aviation.

That is a result of the idiot mayor that had the one downtown destroyed.
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abefroman329

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #667 on: June 21, 2018, 09:23:28 AM »

Sites such as near Kankakee or DeKalb have been studied in the past. 
The problem is that they are seriously far from Chicago, and any new major airport anywhere in the U.S. is hard to obtain funding and approval to build.
Palwaukee became “Chicago Executive Airport” and it’s a fairly busy airport for business jets and general aviation.

That is a result of the idiot mayor that had the one downtown destroyed.

Because all of the CEOs and other assorted bigwigs at all of the corporations a stone's throw from Pal-Waukee were driving all the way down to Meigs prior to that?
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Brandon

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #668 on: June 21, 2018, 09:50:42 AM »

Sites such as near Kankakee or DeKalb have been studied in the past. 
The problem is that they are seriously far from Chicago, and any new major airport anywhere in the U.S. is hard to obtain funding and approval to build.
Palwaukee became “Chicago Executive Airport” and it’s a fairly busy airport for business jets and general aviation.

That is a result of the idiot mayor that had the one downtown destroyed.

Meigs was not used for those types of planes (private, executive jets).  Meigs was more along the lines of Cessnas.
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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #669 on: June 21, 2018, 10:23:36 AM »

The idea of closing Meigs was fine.  The way it was closed by the Mayor was ridiculous. 
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Joe The Dragon

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #670 on: June 21, 2018, 10:52:21 AM »

The idea of closing Meigs was fine.  The way it was closed by the Mayor was ridiculous.
Meigs was the longtime default airport in Microsoft Flight Simulator even after 9/11
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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #671 on: June 21, 2018, 11:12:24 AM »

Meigs was essentially the 'flagship' of general aviation airports.

Mike
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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #672 on: June 21, 2018, 11:19:57 AM »

Meigs was essentially the 'flagship' of general aviation airports.
Mike

The following air carriers operated scheduled passenger service at Meigs Field at various times during its existence:
Air Illinois, which in late 1970s regularly flew the 44-seat Hawker Siddeley HS 748 turboprop, the largest aircraft ever scheduled into Meigs.
Blade Helicopters
Britt Airways
Chicago Helicopter Airways
Gopher Airlines
Great Lakes Airlines (as Great Lakes Aviation dba United Express operating code share service for United Airlines)
Hub Airlines
Illini Airlines
Midwest Commuter Airways
Ozark Air Lines
Skystream Airlines
Trans States Airlines (as Trans World Express operating code share service for TWA)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meigs_Field
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Brandon

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #673 on: June 21, 2018, 11:21:25 AM »

Meigs was essentially the 'flagship' of general aviation airports.
Mike

The following air carriers operated scheduled passenger service at Meigs Field at various times during its existence:
Air Illinois, which in late 1970s regularly flew the 44-seat Hawker Siddeley HS 748 turboprop, the largest aircraft ever scheduled into Meigs.
Blade Helicopters
Britt Airways
Chicago Helicopter Airways
Gopher Airlines
Great Lakes Airlines (as Great Lakes Aviation dba United Express operating code share service for United Airlines)
Hub Airlines
Illini Airlines
Midwest Commuter Airways
Ozark Air Lines
Skystream Airlines
Trans States Airlines (as Trans World Express operating code share service for TWA)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meigs_Field

At various times.  By the year 2000, it was a general aviation airport with maybe a few helicopters.
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abefroman329

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #674 on: June 21, 2018, 11:43:47 AM »

Meigs was essentially the 'flagship' of general aviation airports.
Mike

The following air carriers operated scheduled passenger service at Meigs Field at various times during its existence:
Air Illinois, which in late 1970s regularly flew the 44-seat Hawker Siddeley HS 748 turboprop, the largest aircraft ever scheduled into Meigs.
Blade Helicopters
Britt Airways
Chicago Helicopter Airways
Gopher Airlines
Great Lakes Airlines (as Great Lakes Aviation dba United Express operating code share service for United Airlines)
Hub Airlines
Illini Airlines
Midwest Commuter Airways
Ozark Air Lines
Skystream Airlines
Trans States Airlines (as Trans World Express operating code share service for TWA)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meigs_Field

At various times.  By the year 2000, it was a general aviation airport with maybe a few helicopters.

I'm almost positive there was commercial service to Springfield up till its closure, if not very close to its closure.  You are correct that it was mainly GA prop planes, though.
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