Interstate 81 in Syracuse

[The Ghostbuster]

They should rebuild the existing viaduct to modern design standards, and possibly add an additional lane in each direction. Enough said!

[froggie]

^ Have you even read this thread?  Have you not noticed or seen the right-of-way issues that widening the viaduct (especially to add lanes) would entail?

[Rothman]

They should rebuild the existing viaduct to modern design standards, and possibly add an additional lane in each direction. Enough said!

[seicer]

Let's just go ahead and tear down the remainder of Syracuse's building stock just so we can add more freeway capacity that isn't needed!

[Michael]

Syracuse.com: 3 tunnel options for replacing Syracuse's I-81 and why NYS rejected them

This article goes into detail about how the tunnel options wouldn't work according to NYSDOT.  I wonder if using a TBM or tunnel jack for the shallow tunnel would address the issues with ground stability and road/railroad construction impacts.

I also got a kick out of one of the commenters calling the Community Grid option the Community Gridlock option.

[The Ghostbuster]

I've never been to Syracuse, so my recommendation was out of ignorance. It appears rebuilding the viaduct to modern design standards would have too many right-of-way impacts. Even so, I would think a tunnel would be too expensive, and a boulevard would be too congested.

[froggie]

I've put together an I-81 boulevard concept that draws heavily from the Community Grid option but adds a few other elements to it.  Because of the fictional nature of some of those elements, I posted it in Fictional Highways.

[Rothman]

Tunnel's going to be studied again by some third party.  *sigh*

[Michael]

I saw that on Syracuse.com about an hour before your post, but didn't have time to post the link.  Governor Cuomo directed NYSDOT to do it this time.  I have a feeling that in the end, it will be a boulevard.  I wouldn't be surprised if this study is just for show.

Syracuse.com: After 4 years of study, Cuomo orders new study on I-81 project

[machias]

I saw that on Syracuse.com about an hour before your post, but didn't have time to post the link.  Governor Cuomo directed NYSDOT to do it this time.  I have a feeling that in the end, it will be a boulevard.  I wouldn't be surprised if this study is just for show.

Syracuse.com: After 4 years of study, Cuomo orders new study on I-81 project

Anyone want to lay odds on when the existing structure will unfortunately fall down in a fit of chaos?

[The Ghostbuster]

Haven't they studied this enough? Pick an alternative, design it, fund it, and build it! At this rate, the viaduct will collapse before they're through arguing about how to replace it.

[kalvado]

Haven't they studied this enough? Pick an alternative, design it, fund it, and build it! At this rate, the viaduct will collapse before they're through arguing about how to replace it.

My bet that every time an alternative is finally chosen, one of affluent Cuomo's friends give him a call and asks for a second look. And there are way to many friends...

[Michael]

If the community grid is chosen, I wonder how much (if anything) would be saved as opposed to going with a replacement viaduct or tunnel in the first place.

[cl94]

If the community grid is chosen, I wonder how much (if anything) would be saved as opposed to going with a replacement viaduct or tunnel in the first place.

There seems to be a ton of political opposition to full removal. I'm really curious about how this will turn out.

[vdeane]

Judging by the article, I'm guessing the viaduct is off the table.  Maybe this will be Cuomo's next 10 billion dollar project?  But what happens if the consultant just comes to the same conclusion as Region 3 did?  How many times are we going to spend money on studying this again and again because some residents and businesses can't be bothered to look at the existing reasons for removing the tunnel from consideration?

(personal opinion emphasized)

[Revive 755]

I would think not have the viaduct as an alternative in the study would open said study up to a major lawsuit for not considering (if only briefly) a viable alternative.  Or is New York planning not to use any federal funds for the replacement?

[froggie]

There seems to be a ton of political opposition to full removal.

Mostly outside of Syracuse.  And the state rep who's hell bent on having a tunnel alternative doesn't represent the area the Viaduct's located in (he represents north & west of downtown).

[DJStephens]

This appears to be the first time a movement to remove a section of a major highway is being considered.  A true inter-state route, not a stub such as Detroits I-375 or New Havens route 34.   May wind up very badly, if the vocal minority wins out, and the route through Syracuse is decommissioned.   

[cl94]

This appears to be the first time a movement to remove a section of a major highway is being considered.  A true inter-state route, not a stub such as Detroits I-375 or New Havens route 34.   May wind up very badly, if the vocal minority wins out, and the route through Syracuse is decommissioned.

AFAIK, it is. The governor ordered a diet of NY 198, but that only served local traffic.

[seicer]

The underutilized bypass would serve as Interstate 81, so it's not as if the route in the area is evaporating entirely. Through Syracuse that eliminated and destroyed hundreds of historic residences and commercial buildings without their will and agreement, by politicians that later regretted their decision? (There was a great book at Cornell's library that I'll have to find again on this topic.)

[cl94]

The underutilized bypass would serve as Interstate 81, so it's not as if the route in the area is evaporating entirely. Through Syracuse that eliminated and destroyed hundreds of historic residences and commercial buildings without their will and agreement, by politicians that later regretted their decision? (There was a great book at Cornell's library that I'll have to find again on this topic.)

A slightly-underutilized bypass would go nearly to capacity with little room for growth.

[seicer]

What is the cost breakdown of adding a lane to the bypass versus demolition-and-reconstruction of the viaduct or tunnel? Surely adding one lane where there is a wide median and support for an addition lane will be cheaper.

[cl94]

What is the cost breakdown of adding a lane to the bypass versus demolition-and-reconstruction of the viaduct or tunnel? Surely adding one lane where there is a wide median and support for an addition lane will be cheaper.

Problem isn't necessarily the one lane. It's the bridges (one of which is quite long) and two interchanges need to be completely redesigned. Cost will probably end up being even because of that. Bridges as they are are ~30 feet wide and, when widened, need full shoulders to meet standards.

[froggie]

Cost will probably end up being even because of that. Bridges as they are are ~30 feet wide and, when widened, need full shoulders to meet standards.

I think you're overstating the costs of improving I-481, especially considering that widening the long bridge you're referring to was already factored into the Community Grid cost estimate.  I also think you're overstating the amount of traffic that would flood I-481.

[kalvado]

Cost will probably end up being even because of that. Bridges as they are are ~30 feet wide and, when widened, need full shoulders to meet standards.

I think you're overstating the costs of improving I-481, especially considering that widening the long bridge you're referring to was already factored into the Community Grid cost estimate.  I also think you're overstating the amount of traffic that would flood I-481.

I had an impression community grid plan did not include widening 481 throughout...