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Author Topic: Interstate 81 in Syracuse  (Read 130251 times)

Rothman

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2016, 01:09:30 PM »

Would those discussions have been with managers or with the actual sign designers?  In my experience, managers are opposed to just about anything that is new/different or involves spending money.  The mentality is just to maintain the system and our processes as they were 30 years ago when the vast majority of current employees were hired.

MO Office Directors.
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vdeane

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2016, 01:25:04 PM »

Given Cuomo's recent comments, I think it's safe to say that a rebuilt viaduct isn't happening for I-81.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2016/08/cuomo_i-81_in_syracuse_a_classic_planning_blunder_1.html
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machias

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2016, 05:22:15 PM »

Given Cuomo's recent comments, I think it's safe to say that a rebuilt viaduct isn't happening for I-81.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2016/08/cuomo_i-81_in_syracuse_a_classic_planning_blunder_1.html

While I don't think ripping down the viaduct is going to be the saving grace that politicians claim it's going to be, on the bright side, all new mile-based interchange numbers for I-81 if it gets rerouted over I-481 and I-690!
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2016, 06:10:31 PM »

I think they have procrastinated long enough. Choose an option and build it already!
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Alps

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2016, 07:31:41 PM »

Given Cuomo's recent comments, I think it's safe to say that a rebuilt viaduct isn't happening for I-81.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2016/08/cuomo_i-81_in_syracuse_a_classic_planning_blunder_1.html
I discount heavily ideas proffered without solutions or assessments.

Buffaboy

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2016, 02:04:58 AM »

Although it was partly built over the old Chenango Canal, one could say the Arterial in Utica is a blunder too.

But they're rebuilding it.

Also, I find it amazing that we talk more about tearing down roads/highways/bridges in NY than rebuilding/repairing/building new ones.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2016, 02:08:39 AM by Buffaboy »
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kalvado

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2016, 06:48:32 AM »

Although it was partly built over the old Chenango Canal, one could say the Arterial in Utica is a blunder too.

But they're rebuilding it.

Also, I find it amazing that we talk more about tearing down roads/highways/bridges in NY than rebuilding/repairing/building new ones.
81 has no simple repair or rebuilt option. 690 is a slalom as well, I enjoyed that in a dark rainy weather yesterday.
And one thing is correct: it is great to discuss all the options, but something has to be done eventually.
 
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machias

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2016, 08:28:53 AM »

Although it was partly built over the old Chenango Canal, one could say the Arterial in Utica is a blunder too.

But they're rebuilding it.

Also, I find it amazing that we talk more about tearing down roads/highways/bridges in NY than rebuilding/repairing/building new ones.

Well, at least they're rebuilding half of it.  While the Arterial project was originally suppose to remove all five traffic signals, the project was scaled back at the last minute to leave the signals at Noyes and Oswego. Discussions with NYSDOT indicate that they have no plans to remove the other two lights at this time.

Whatever they decide to do with I-81 through Syracuse (personally I'm a fan of rebuilding the viaduct), I just hope they do it all the way.
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cl94

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2016, 03:51:46 PM »

Although it was partly built over the old Chenango Canal, one could say the Arterial in Utica is a blunder too.

But they're rebuilding it.

Also, I find it amazing that we talk more about tearing down roads/highways/bridges in NY than rebuilding/repairing/building new ones.

Well, at least they're rebuilding half of it.  While the Arterial project was originally suppose to remove all five traffic signals, the project was scaled back at the last minute to leave the signals at Noyes and Oswego. Discussions with NYSDOT indicate that they have no plans to remove the other two lights at this time.

Whatever they decide to do with I-81 through Syracuse (personally I'm a fan of rebuilding the viaduct), I just hope they do it all the way.

If it gets fully rebuilt, they'd need to widen it. Northbound has a bad weave and SB I-81 narrows to a single lane.
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froggie

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2016, 04:01:40 PM »

Have you not read or glanced through the studies, cl94?  Widening to add shoulders, bring to more modern standards, and eliminate the southbound lane drop is already part of that alternative.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #35 on: August 18, 2016, 03:31:45 PM »

If I had to choose an option, I'd have them rebuild the existing viaduct. A tunnel is too expensive, and a boulevard is pure insanity. In addition, I would do everything I could to make the viaduct less of a barrier, and make non-car improvements as well.
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Rothman

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2016, 02:16:48 PM »

I half-wonder if they'll tear down the viaduct only to start a new project to rebuild a through north-south freeway a few years later.
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kalvado

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2016, 02:40:38 PM »

I half-wonder if they'll tear down the viaduct only to start a new project to rebuild a through north-south freeway a few years later.
How much is a "few years" for a big project in NY? I would expect 10 minimum, 25 realistic...
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Rothman

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2016, 03:17:22 PM »

I half-wonder if they'll tear down the viaduct only to start a new project to rebuild a through north-south freeway a few years later.
How much is a "few years" for a big project in NY? I would expect 10 minimum, 25 realistic...

Depends on the project and who wants it done.

(personal opinion expressed)
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machias

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2016, 07:37:19 PM »

I half-wonder if they'll tear down the viaduct only to start a new project to rebuild a through north-south freeway a few years later.
How much is a "few years" for a big project in NY? I would expect 10 minimum, 25 realistic...

Depends on the project and who wants it done.

(personal opinion expressed)

NYSDOT commissioner Matt Driscoll has described the project as the biggest in NYSDOT history so who knows what they have planned.
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kalvado

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2016, 12:34:21 AM »

NYSDOT commissioner Matt Driscoll has described the project as the biggest in NYSDOT history so who knows what they have planned.
Who is in charge of Tapan Zee - DOT or Thruway?
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vdeane

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2016, 04:10:52 PM »

The Tappan Zee is Thruway.  No parts of I-287 are maintained by NYSDOT.
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Rothman

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2016, 12:31:43 PM »

The Tappan Zee is Thruway.  No parts of I-287 are maintained by NYSDOT.

I'd call Tappan Zee being done by committee.  NYSDOT has definitely pumped in some funding towards its construction.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2016, 06:05:47 PM »

If they ever truly decide what they are going to do about this Interstate, somebody let us know. I'm not holding my breath for an answer anytime soon, though.
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cl94

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2016, 06:10:31 PM »

We'll find out when Cuomo gets enough political donations. That's what likely caused the mess in Buffalo  :pan:
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Michael

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #45 on: October 06, 2016, 08:31:32 PM »

From Syracuse.com: First look at detailed maps of 2 proposals left for I-81 in downtown Syracuse

The detailed maps and documents from NYSDOT are on this page in the yellow Open House section.  There's a lot to look at!
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Buffaboy

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #46 on: October 07, 2016, 12:22:22 AM »

If they had put I-81 through Utica back in the 50s, this could have been avoided!
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amroad17

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #47 on: October 07, 2016, 05:23:21 AM »

I am rather torn about this.  I do see the advantages in both proposals.

The whole section in Syracuse from near the Oakwood Cemetary/Dr. Martin Luther King Drive to just south of Destiny USA (I still say Carousel Center) does need upgrading and modernizing.  In the Viaduct Proposal, I-81 would have to be totally rebuilt from scratch at least from Oakwood Cemetary to I-690 with the section north of I-690 upgraded.  Doing this, we will see what increases in traffic patterns will occur along I-481 and I-690 east of downtown.  In this proposal, I-481 would not be upgraded.  Will it be able to handle the increased traffic when the project actually commences acting as the de facto route for I-81?

The finished product looks good in this proposal, but, other than the $1.4 billion, what other costs would there be?  Obviously, some historic buildings, businesses, and residences will have to be bought and razed for this to come to fruition.  Is this worth it?

On the other hand,  if this is the proposal chosen, the traffic through the downtown area will improve immensely on I-81.  There will be no extremely sharp turns, increased space on the viaduct, and a better interchange with I-690 (with all movements available).

In the Community Grid Proposal, I-81 would be routed around the city with improvements to the freeway.  The viaduct area would become a boulevard (Almond Street/Blvd.) with better access from SU to downtown.  The section from I-481 north of the city to I-690 would be renumbered (swap anyone?) and improved from Hiawatha Blvd. to I-690.  It looks pleasing to the eye in the drawings, but will it look like this?  Will this help a person coming to Syracuse from the south get to the downtown area without going "out of the way"?  Also, what will become of the stub of I-81 from I-481 north toward downtown?  Will this be abandoned/torn up, or will it be used to get to Almond and downtown?

A "pro" in this proposal is that through traffic would not even have to go into Syracuse.  Taking I-481 around the city is only four miles longer than taking I-81 through the city (15 miles vs. 11 miles).  Upgrading both the south and the north I-81/I-481 interchanges would have to be done to allow I-81 to be the "through" route instead of having a TOTSO effect.

The city streets, IMHO, in this proposal should become one-way streets instead of two-way.  I find this works well in many downtown areas.  Yes, one may have to go around a block to get to where they are going, but I consider it a minor inconvenience as I find traffic runs better as one-way grids than as two-way grids.

I have not really made a decision in my mind about this.  I realize I have no say in the matter nor will this adversely affect me as I live near 600 miles away from Syracuse.  However, Syracuse is my hometown and whatever happens there still interests me.  I just have a few opinions and a few questions about this subject.  My avatar and my personal text says it all about how interested I am on what proposal decision is made concerning I-81 in Syracuse.
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machias

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #48 on: October 07, 2016, 07:54:19 AM »

If they had put I-81 through Utica back in the 50s, this could have been avoided!

You wouldn't believe the number of older folks in Utica that I've talked to over the years that still bring up that I-81 wasn't built through Utica. Some blame most of Utica's woes on the fact that I-81 didn't come through Utica.
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AMLNet49

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #49 on: October 07, 2016, 01:05:48 PM »

If they had put I-81 through Utica back in the 50s, this could have been avoided!

You wouldn't believe the number of older folks in Utica that I've talked to over the years that still bring up that I-81 wasn't built through Utica. Some blame most of Utica's woes on the fact that I-81 didn't come through Utica.

Doesn't help that the interstate they did get is one of the most shoehorned and worst signed 3DIs in existence.
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