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Pennsylvania

Started by Alex, March 07, 2009, 07:01:05 PM

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storm2k

Quote from: doofy103 on April 02, 2015, 07:42:24 PM
How's the Allentown area for old signage?  I see some all text button copy around PA-309 and US-22.  Is there an upcoming signing contract for these? I'd like to take a trip out there.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.597993,-75.564501,3a,75y,55.11h,96.13t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s8rKkwIpfvRciN8_r4Hunpg!2e0

I was just on 22 this afternoon. Headed east from the NE Extension out to NJ. The sign you linked from GSV is still there, but a lot of other signage along that stretch has been replaced (including 22WB for 309), so I would imagine these signs' days are numbered.


Mergingtraffic

#201
Quote from: storm2k on April 02, 2015, 08:47:08 PM
Quote from: doofy103 on April 02, 2015, 07:42:24 PM
How's the Allentown area for old signage?  I see some all text button copy around PA-309 and US-22.  Is there an upcoming signing contract for these? I'd like to take a trip out there.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.597993,-75.564501,3a,75y,55.11h,96.13t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s8rKkwIpfvRciN8_r4Hunpg!2e0

I was just on 22 this afternoon. Headed east from the NE Extension out to NJ. The sign you linked from GSV is still there, but a lot of other signage along that stretch has been replaced (including 22WB for 309), so I would imagine these signs' days are numbered.

Good to know, yeah the GSV also shows the new WB signage in Clearview and the timeline shows it there since 2008. 
I was on the PENNDOT website and didn't see any looming signing plans.  Of course I don't know if one is in the works though.  I wish there was a project look up status page.

Any other goodies around there?  I'd like to spend the day.
I only take pics of good looking signs. Long live non-reflective button copy!
MergingTraffic https://www.flickr.com/photos/98731835@N05/

ARMOURERERIC

Since this thread is up, anyone got any good projects to report from this years round of hot Act 89 road building action?

roadman65

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.416407,-80.103196,3a,75y,349.09h,85.45t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1scW4TakvTGognzWGJ3f7FBg!2e0
I see PennDOT is getting to be like NM and CO with signing US and Interstate concurrencies.  No mention of either US 22 and US 30 here on NB I-79 considering that I-376 here is new.

You can see on the signs the modifications that were indeed made when I-376 took over I-279 through this interchange.  In fact the green area above I-376 WEST looks like it had individual directional headers for US 22 & 30 Westbound at one time as no interstate went west from here before the 376 extension was granted.

You would think that PennDOT would have kept signing US 22 & US 30 as that was what the road was called (at least WB) up until AASHTO decided to let I-376 continue on, so to please the area locals they would have signed all three routes together.

In addition that Eastern PA does sign US routes with interstates, such as US 6 with I-81, US 22 with I-78, US 30 with both I-76 and I-676, and closer yet US 220 with I-99 as that setup is less than 100 miles away as the crow flies.

I always thought we on the east coast kept US routes alive, but I guess some engineers in PA do not care about them at all.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

rickmastfan67

Quote from: roadman65 on April 20, 2015, 09:48:37 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.416407,-80.103196,3a,75y,349.09h,85.45t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1scW4TakvTGognzWGJ3f7FBg!2e0
I see PennDOT is getting to be like NM and CO with signing US and Interstate concurrencies.  No mention of either US 22 and US 30 here on NB I-79 considering that I-376 here is new.

Well, they may no longer be signed on the BGS, they are still WELL SIGNED along I-376 itself.

roadman65

Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

rickmastfan67


Mr_Northside

It also gets mentioned on most approaches of other highways, including:
I-79: http://goo.gl/maps/BVStP
US-19/Banksville Rd: http://goo.gl/maps/4h1mh
Beechview Ave (Squirrel Hill): http://goo.gl/maps/G1YAj

I'm pretty sure both directions of PA-51/Saw Mill Run Blvd have them.  Not ALL the exits have them for every direction, but many, if not most, do.
I don't have opinions anymore. All I know is that no one is better than anyone else, and everyone is the best at everything

jemacedo9

From PennDOT District 8-0:  PennDOT is INCREASING (yes, INCREASING) Speed Limits on US 22 (non-freeway) east of Harrisburg through to where it joins I-78...most increasing from 45 to 50 or 50 to 55...

J N Winkler

Just a tidbit for the Pennsylvania control-city file:  PennDOT ECMS 102872 (bids opened in the last month) calls for the I-80/I-81 interchange to be fitted with signs pointing to Wilkes-Barre and New England on the one hand and Hazleton and New York City on the other.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

Zeffy

Quote from: J N Winkler on May 23, 2015, 04:27:36 PM
Just a tidbit for the Pennsylvania control-city file:  PennDOT ECMS 102872 (bids opened in the last month) calls for the I-80/I-81 interchange to be fitted with signs pointing to Wilkes-Barre and New England on the one hand and Hazleton and New York City on the other.

Wilkes Barre and Hazleton are acceptable (for obvious reasons). New England though? Not totally a fan of that one...
Life would be boring if we didn't take an offramp every once in a while

A weird combination of a weather geek, roadgeek, car enthusiast and furry mixed with many anxiety related disorders

J N Winkler

Current installation (newish signs) featuring just Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton

They didn't do the smart thing, which is to ask us for our opinion.  Perhaps a bit of Ohio envy going on?
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

briantroutman

I had to look this one up–the PennDOT spec drawing for the assembly is below.

"New England"  makes a bit more sense considered in the context of the I-81 North - To I-84 shields and legend above, and previously, there had been supplemental signs "TRUCKS - USE I-81 and I-84 to New England" , but I still don't like its use as a control point.

I wonder if this signals a shift in thinking at PennDOT, and future I-80 signage will likewise include NYC as a control city.


froggie

If they're going to include "TO I-84" signage, I see no problem with including New England as well.  You can't pinpoint just a single New England city from that far out.

JakeFromNewEngland

Quote from: noelbotevera on May 23, 2015, 05:20:39 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on May 23, 2015, 05:04:17 PM
I had to look this one up–the PennDOT spec drawing for the assembly is below.

"New England"  makes a bit more sense considered in the context of the I-81 North - To I-84 shields and legend above, and previously, there had been supplemental signs "TRUCKS - USE I-81 and I-84 to New England" , but I still don't like its use as a control point.

I wonder if this signals a shift in thinking at PennDOT, and future I-80 signage will likewise include NYC as a control city.


Replace "New England" with Newburgh, Hartford, or Bridgeport (Bridgeport is I-84 to US 7 to I-95).

Bridgeport probably wouldn't be a good control city at all since I-84 goes nowhere near it. If you're going to use any CT city, the one that makes sense is Hartford. I agree with Froggie, simply having New England or even New York State is better than a single city.

ARMOURERERIC

Any chance the FHA outright asked for this signage to divert Hartford/Boston bound traffic away from NYC?

Zeffy

Quote from: froggie on May 24, 2015, 09:57:04 AM
If they're going to include "TO I-84" signage, I see no problem with including New England as well.  You can't pinpoint just a single New England city from that far out.

Well, now that I see they point towards I-84, then New England is fine. I thought they were just going to have I-81 NORTH, which is why I disliked the use of New England as a destination.
Life would be boring if we didn't take an offramp every once in a while

A weird combination of a weather geek, roadgeek, car enthusiast and furry mixed with many anxiety related disorders

KEVIN_224

Instead of I-84 saying Bridgeport, why not have it say either Newburgh, NY/Hartford, CT or Newburgh, NY/Danbury, CT?

MASTERNC

Another interesting item from PennDOT's ECMS.  As part of the reconstruction of I-70 in Washington, there will be a two lane ramp from WB I-70 to NB I-79 (the new third lane will exit, with the middle lane becoming an optional lane).  However, the advance BGS will not be using APL but rather the old diagram.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on May 24, 2015, 04:50:32 PM
Instead of I-84 saying Bridgeport, why not have it say either Newburgh, NY/Hartford, CT or Newburgh, NY/Danbury, CT?

You can only have two destinations, and since Wilkes Barre is one, you can only choose one other.  It's a toss up at that point, and there's probably no one specific destination that the majority of the traffic heads towards.  Thus, "New England".

empirestate

Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 24, 2015, 10:22:01 PM
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on May 24, 2015, 04:50:32 PM
Instead of I-84 saying Bridgeport, why not have it say either Newburgh, NY/Hartford, CT or Newburgh, NY/Danbury, CT?

You can only have two destinations, and since Wilkes Barre is one, you can only choose one other.  It's a toss up at that point, and there's probably no one specific destination that the majority of the traffic heads towards.  Thus, "New England".

How about "Boston"? It's the primary city of New England, and conveys pretty well that traffic for that whole region should go this way.

Signage in the NYC area recently dropped instances of "New England" in favor of specific cities. Assuming that was a good idea, is there a reason it wouldn't be likewise in PA?

briantroutman

This sign structure is already over the MUTCD limit, isn't it? I believe the guidelines are "no more than two destinations per sign–no more than three per assembly" . Not that PennDOT doesn't violate this rule as a matter of course...

I actually like "Boston"  over "New England" –taking I-84 and then I-90 to their logical ends. Unlike Danbury, Newburgh, etc., Boston is large enough and significant enough that I think regional motorists would associate a broad array of New England destinations with it. In a way, it's not entirely unlike signing "Los Angeles"  as the westbound control on I-40 in Arizona.

But I don't see the need for "Hazleton"  on this assembly. For one, you're already in the greater Hazleton area at this point, but more significantly, most Hazleton destinations are better accessed from I-81 South, not I-80 East. If PennDOT insisted on keeping a in-state control city for I-80 East here, it would be Stroudsburg. Otherwise, it should just be "New York City" .

Gnutella

I honestly don't mind PennDOT using "New England" as the control city for I-84, considering it's how most people in Pennsylvania and New England get between the two.

Honestly, I'd like to see more long-distance control cities in Pennsylvania. Only IDOT is more parochial when it comes to control cities. I'd also like to see more leeway in the number of control cities if there are multiple major cities served by a highway. Here's how I'd list the control cities on the Interstates in Pennsylvania...


I-70 East

"Pittsburgh" between the West Virginia state line and I-79
"Baltimore | Washington DC" between I-79 and the Pennsylvania Turnpike (west junction)
"Harrisburg | Philadelphia | Baltimore | Washington DC" along the multiplex with the Pennsylvania Turnpike
"Baltimore | Washington DC" between the Pennsylvania Turnpike (east junction) and the Maryland state line


I-70 West

"Pittsburgh | Columbus" between the Maryland state line and the Pennsylvania Turnpike (east junction)
"Pittsburgh | Columbus" along the multiplex with the Pennsylvania Turnpike
"Wheeling | Columbus" between the Pennsylvania Turnpike (west junction) and the West Virginia state line


I-76 (PA Turnpike) East

"Pittsburgh" between the Ohio state line and I-79
"Harrisburg | Philadelphia" between I-79 and I-70 (west junction)
"Harrisburg | Philadelphia | Baltimore | Washington DC" along the multiplex with I-70
"Harrisburg | Philadelphia" between I-70 (east junction) and I-83
"Philadelphia" between I-83 and I-276
"Philadelphia" between the Pennsylvania Turnpike and downtown Philadelphia
"Camden | Atlantic City" between downtown Philadelphia and the New Jersey state line
"Trenton | New York City" on I-276 East
"Trenton | New York City" on I-95 North


I-76 (PA Turnpike) West

"Philadelphia" on I-95 South
"Harrisburg | Pittsburgh" on I-276 West
"Harrisburg | Pittsburgh" between I-276 and I-283
"Pittsburgh" between I-283 and I-70 (east junction)
"Pittsburgh | Columbus" along the multiplex with I-70
"Pittsburgh" between I-70 (west junction) and I-376 (east junction)
"Youngstown | Cleveland" between I-376 (east junction) and the Ohio state line


I-78 East

"Allentown | New York City" between I-81 and U.S. 22 (east junction)
"Newark | New York City" between U.S. 22 (east junction) and the New Jersey state line


I-78 West

"Allentown | Harrisburg" between the New Jersey state line and PA 309
"Harrisburg" between PA 309 and I-81


I-79 North

"Pittsburgh" between the West Virginia state line and I-376
"Erie" between I-376 and PA 5


I-79 South

"Pittsburgh" between PA 5 and I-279
"Morgantown" between I-279 and the West Virginia state line


I-80 East

"State College | New York City" between the Ohio state line and I-99 (future west junction)
"Williamsport | New York City" along the future multiplex with I-99
"Hazleton | New York City" between I-99 (future east junction) and I-81
"New York City" between I-81 and the New Jersey state line


I-80 West

"Hazleton | Cleveland" between the New Jersey state line and I-81
"Williamsport | Cleveland" between I-81 and I-180
"State College | Cleveland" between I-180 and I-99 (future west junction)
"DuBois | Cleveland" between I-99 (future west junction) and U.S. 219
"Clarion | Cleveland" between U.S. 219 and PA 68
"Sharon | Cleveland" between PA 68 and I-376
"Youngstown | Cleveland" between I-376 and the Ohio state line


I-81 North

"Harrisburg" between the Maryland state line and I-83
"Wilkes-Barre | Scranton" between I-83 and PA 29
"Scranton" between PA 29 and I-84/I-380
"Binghamton | Syracuse" between I-84/I-380 and the New York state line


I-81 South

"Scranton | Wilkes-Barre" between the New York state line and I-84/I-380
"Wilkes-Barre" between I-84/I-380 and PA 309
"Harrisburg" between PA 309 and I-83
"Hagerstown" between I-83 and the Maryland state line


I-83 North

"York" between the Maryland state line and I-83 Business
"Harrisburg" between I-83 Business and PA 581
"Downtown Harrisburg | STATE CAPITOL" between PA 581 and 2nd Street in Harrisburg
"Hershey" between PA 230 and U.S. 322 (south junction)
Allentown | Wilkes-Barre between U.S. 322 (south junction) and I-81


I-83 South

"Harrisburg | Harrisburg Int'l Airport" between I-81 and U.S. 322 (south junction)
"Downtown Harrisburg | STATE CAPITOL" between U.S. 322 (south junction) and 2nd Street in Harrisburg
"York | Baltimore" between 2nd Street in Harrisburg and U.S. 30
"Baltimore" between U.S. 30 and the Maryland state line


I-84 East

"New York City | New England" along the multiplex with I-380
"Milford | New England" from I-380 to U.S. 6
"Newburgh | New England" from U.S. 6 to the New York state line

I-84 West

"Scranton" from the New York state line to I-81


I-86 East

"Jamestown" from I-90 to the New York state line


I-86 West

"Erie | Cleveland" from the New York state line to I-90


I-90 East

"Erie | Buffalo" from the Ohio state line to I-79
"Buffalo" from I-79 to the New York state line


I-90 West

"Erie | Cleveland" from the New York state line to PA 290
"Cleveland" from PA 290 to the Ohio state line


I-95 North

"Philadelphia" from the Delaware state line to I-476
"Philadelphia Int'l Airport | Philadelphia" from I-476 to Philadelphia International Airport
"Philadelphia" from Philadelphia International Airport to PA 291
NONE from PA 291 to I-676
"Trenton | New York City" from I-676 to the New Jersey state line


I-95 South

"Philadelphia" from the New Jersey state line to I-676
"Philadelphia Int'l Airport | Wilmington" from I-676 to Philadelphia International Airport
"Wilmington | Baltimore" from Philadelphia International Airport to the Delaware state line


I-99 North

"Altoona" from the Pennsylvania Turnpike to U.S. 220 Business in Altoona
"State College" from U.S. 220 Business in Altoona to U.S. 322 Business
"Penn State Univ | Williamsport" from U.S. 322 Business to U.S. 322 (east junction)
"Williamsport" from U.S. 322 (east junction) to I-80 (future west junction)


I-99 South

"State College" from I-80 to U.S. 322 (east junction)
"Altoona" from U.S. 322 (east junction) to 17th Street in Altoona
"Bedford | Cumberland MD" from 17th Street in Altoona to the Pennsylvania Turnpike

ARMOURERERIC

Well, I am going to take this opportunity to ask my regular question:  Anyone got any serious "decade of investment" action to report.  FWIW, I still read that the PA 147 freeway bridge across the W Branch Susquehanna is going to bid Aug 15.  And that is a real biggie.

PHLBOS

Quote from: empirestate on May 24, 2015, 10:38:11 PMSignage in the NYC area recently dropped instances of "New England" in favor of specific cities. Assuming that was a good idea, is there a reason it wouldn't be likewise in PA?
Good point.  I thought the phase-out of New England as a listed I-95 northbound destination in northern NJ & NYC was in response to a FHWA (?) directive now prohibiting such general locales/regions.

If true, then either Newburgh, NY, Danbury, CT or Hartford, CT should be used instead of New England.

Quote from: Gnutella on May 25, 2015, 11:06:06 AMI-76 (PA Turnpike) East

"Harrisburg | Philadelphia" between I-70 (east junction) and I-83
Don't you mean I-81?  Signage along I-76 eastbound for the Carlisle (Exit 226/US 11 to I-81) interchange lists Harrisburg as a northbound US 11/I-81 destination.

Quote from: Gnutella on May 25, 2015, 11:06:06 AM
I-95 North

"Philadelphia" from the Delaware state line to I-476
"Philadelphia Int'l Airport | Philadelphia" from I-476 to Philadelphia International Airport
"Philadelphia" from Philadelphia International Airport to PA 291
Do keep in mind that the first exit (Exit 10) for PA 291 (eastbound) comes before the exit for the airport.

Quote from: Gnutella on May 25, 2015, 11:06:06 AM
NONE from PA 291 to I-676
Disagree, the current Central Philadelphia listing(s) work fine.

Quote from: Gnutella on May 25, 2015, 11:06:06 AM
I-95 South

"Philadelphia" from the New Jersey state line to I-676
Present convention has Central Philadelphia as a southbound I-95 destination from PA 63 (Exit 35) southward because one is actually in the City of Philadelphia limits at that point.
GPS does NOT equal GOD



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