Pennsylvania

[Pete from Boston]

I think it's telling that when considering appropriate control "destinations" (since cities are not alone in this in practice) I have created in my mind a passive thought process that can be best summed up as "Stop thinking of what would be helpful and instead think of what fits the regulations."  The two should be the same, but often are not.

[spooky]

At this stage in the discussion, my entire point is this: Boston is the city that would stand in place of the region of New England to have the most similar connotation.

I don't want to keep multi-quoting and rehashing the same discussion, and you can admonish me again for not quoting all of what you said, but since you boiled it down to a single point I will do the same: If you want the name to be connotative of the region, why would you change it in the first place?

[PHLBOS]

With regard to the proposed signage at I-80/I-81, currently it reads I-81 Wilkes-Barre and I-80 Hazleton.  By adding control cities for Hartford and New York City, you will be helping long distance traffic, especially guiding traffic from 80 to 81 to 84.

IMHO, a better (& more MUTCD/FHWA-complaint) approach of doing such would be to have a separate gantry with supplemental BGS' for New England and New York (City) for I-81 & 80 respectively just prior to the interchange.  It is my understanding that listing regions on supplemental BGS' is still allowed... is it not?

Just a hunch, but the likely main problem/issue with existing ground-mounted supplemental BGS for New England (located beyond the right shoulder) is that it's more susceptible to:

1.  Being knocked down by an errant vehicle.
or
2.  Being obstructed by either vegetation or a truck in the right-lane (for left-lane drivers).

Having just these supplemental BGS' elevated (and directly above the road) is probably all that's really called for.  There's no need to place these more distant destinations/regions on every ramp and/or pull-through signs along the way.

[roadman]

Excellent suggestion PHLBOS.  And you are correct, destinations on supplemental guide signs (either ground-mounted or overhead), even for interchanges with major Interstates, do not have to conform to control city requirements.  The only issue I possibly see is with sign spacing, especially on I-81 northbound in Scranton.

Even if this were done, I still believe that Milford should be replaced with a more easterly control city on I-84 (IMO even Newburgh NY would suffice).

[empirestate]

At this stage in the discussion, my entire point is this: Boston is the city that would stand in place of the region of New England to have the most similar connotation.

I don't want to keep multi-quoting and rehashing the same discussion, and you can admonish me again for not quoting all of what you said, but since you boiled it down to a single point I will do the same: If you want the name to be connotative of the region, why would you change it in the first place?

Don't know, that's a different question I wasn't attempting to answer.

[CentralPAGal]

With regard to things NOT having to do with I-80/I-81 interchange signs, I can report that in the Harrisburg area, the I-83 project is starting to wrap up. I-83 now has 4 travel lanes (rather than 3) through the "York Split" interchange with PA 581. Additionally, in the coming weeks, an adjacent bridge carrying PA 581 is due to be replaced.

Edit:
Also, the US 220 project just north of I-80 is progressing. Driving through there last week,I saw that the new future southbound exits and the approaches to the bridge are being graded. Traffic is currently detoured onto the future northbound ramps.

[noelbotevera]

With regard to things NOT having to do with I-80/I-81 interchange signs, I can report that in the Harrisburg area, the I-83 project is starting to wrap up. I-83 now has 4 travel lanes (rather than 3) through the "York Split" interchange with PA 581. Additionally, in the coming weeks, an adjacent bridge carrying PA 581 is due to be replaced.

When my family drove through there in June 2014, between exit 41A and I-81, it was so horrid. Only the bridge crossing the Susquehanna River was smooth, but it was very fast-paced, with horrible pavement, tight weaving (in order to get to Harrisburg Mall from US 322, you have to do a weave through four lanes in 1/8 of a mile), four lanes each way (between exit 43 to exit 47), low overpasses (the 19th St. overpass is low), and people who do not know how to drive (no, the speed limit is 65!).

[thenetwork]

Maybe

If you want the destination to represent the region, keep it as New England. If it needs to be a control city, it shouldn't be decided based upon some misguided need to have a singular city represent a region.

I don't know whether anyone's actually expressed that need.

In other words, if we accept that "New England" is perfectly acceptable, except for the sole fact that it's a region and not a city (which is my supposition), then the closest possible replacement is certainly "Boston".

I think this is the basic flaw in your logic. If we accept that "New England" is perfectly acceptable, then why replace it? If we instead accept that "New England" needs to replaced - and why wouldn't you be starting with this assumption, if we're discussing what would replace it - then why also wouldn't we assume that it's replaced in the same manner that was used to replace "New England" with "New Haven CT" on I-95 leaving NYC, or to replace "NH-Maine" with "Portsmouth NH" on I-95 in MA? Destinations aren't supposed to be regional - that's why they're being replaced.

("supposed to be" based on MUTCD guidelines, not my own personal preference)

But putting that aside, would you consider Boston based upon any other criteria? Being the principal city of New England may not be a reason to choose it as a control city, but is it a reason not to consider it?

If there was absolutely nothing (in Gene Wilder/Willy Wonka voice), in terms of cities or populous areas, between the CT/NY state line and Boston; then (and only then) would that assumption be correct. 

yeah, what he said.

They could always take a page out of the Caltrans signing bible and use the control city of "Other New England Cities"

[RevZimmerman]

A couple news articles about a bridge replacement on PA-581, just west of the I-83 York Split in the West Shore part of the Harrisburg metro area:

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/05/penndot_route_581_york_split.html
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/06/a_doozy_of_a_detour_penndot_pr.html

Bridge replacement begins this weekend.

[roadman65]

New England, I must admit, is too ambiguous as it covers a lot of territory.  If you travel I-287 in New Jersey heading to the New York Border you will see it as signs there for "New England" to use I-87 North to I-84 East when staying on I-287 can also get you there.  In fact going to Stamford, Bridgeport, New Haven, and Providence your better staying on I-287 across the Tappan Zee Bridge.

Only for Danbury, Waterbury, Hartford, and Boston is I-84 really going to help anyone.  Of course NH, and ME via MA freeways it will help, but VT you would have to use I-87 past Albany to reach that. 

I think cities are better used except far away. In I-80's case, its not far enough because to get to Stamford, lets say, taking I-81 to I-84 is not the way to go.  Using I-80 to I-95 or I-80 to I-287 to I-95 is your best bet even as far away as that.

[CentralPAGal]

Tonight, eastbound PA 581 closes between US 15 and I-83 for a bridge replacement. The eastbound half of the bridge is to be removed, and replaced with a prebuilt structure by Monday (June 8) morning. If anyone is interested, the replacement f the bridge will be streaming live. http://www.purpose1.com/pa-581-reconstruction

[PHLBOS]

Tonight, eastbound PA 581 closes between US 15 and I-83 for a bridge replacement. The eastbound half of the bridge is to be removed, and replaced with a prebuilt structure by Monday (June 8) morning. If anyone is interested, the replacement f the bridge will be streaming live. http://www.purpose1.com/pa-581-reconstruction

Note to self: do not shunpike via PA 581 this weekend when returning from the All-Ford Nationals in Carlisle.

[CentralPAGal]

Tonight, eastbound PA 581 closes between US 15 and I-83 for a bridge replacement. The eastbound half of the bridge is to be removed, and replaced with a prebuilt structure by Monday (June 8) morning. If anyone is interested, the replacement f the bridge will be streaming live. http://www.purpose1.com/pa-581-reconstruction

Note to self: do not shunpike via PA 581 this weekend when returning from the All-Ford Nationals in Carlisle.

Yeah, with the Ford Nationals going on, that will just make the traffic situation that much worse. The contractor and/or Penndot could have definitely chosen a better time.

[CentralPAGal]

PA 581 westbound bridge replacement starts tonight. Streaming live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaDDaaq_GfM&feature=youtu.be

[roadman65]

I was noticing that on GSV along US 22 near Grantville, PA that at the time the image was captured, that PennDOT was in the process of repaving the four lane arterial.  While at it the median was removed, not that there was much of one to begin with as if memory serves me had just a small raised concrete strip that was there for night contrast rather than safety.  Some portions of US 22 between Harrisburg and its concurrency with I-78 had a center guardrail with two back to back W rails.

I was just wondering, if anyone in the area who is a user here, knows if they re-erected some sort of median, guardrail, or even a jersey barrier since the repaving project finished there?   Judging by the amount of traffic signals added between PA 743 and Paxtonia since the early 90's, I assume that a lot of safety concerns have been made over the past 20 years which would make a paved open area between the travel lanes another safety issue.

[MASTERNC]

I'd love to know when PA is going to raise more freeway speed limits to 70 MPH.  They were talking about doing it in the spring, and even the Turnpike talked about raising the speed limit systemwide.  Is Wolf's administration completely against the higher speed limit, or are they taking their time in doing speed studies?  With the exception of high profile accidents on I-380, I haven't heard of any negative changes in crash rates.

[Roadsguy]

I was noticing that on GSV along US 22 near Grantville, PA that at the time the image was captured, that PennDOT was in the process of repaving the four lane arterial.  While at it the median was removed, not that there was much of one to begin with as if memory serves me had just a small raised concrete strip that was there for night contrast rather than safety.  Some portions of US 22 between Harrisburg and its concurrency with I-78 had a center guardrail with two back to back W rails.

I was just wondering, if anyone in the area who is a user here, knows if they re-erected some sort of median, guardrail, or even a jersey barrier since the repaving project finished there?   Judging by the amount of traffic signals added between PA 743 and Paxtonia since the early 90's, I assume that a lot of safety concerns have been made over the past 20 years which would make a paved open area between the travel lanes another safety issue.

Yes, PennDOT has reconstructed 22 from just east of PA 39 to the merge with I-78, replacing the old W-beam with a Jersey barrier, and putting in plenty of turning lanes that I don't think were there before. They also changed some of the old substandard merges at its few ancient interchanges with right-angle stop-controlled intersections. It was rebuilt between 343 (eastern end of multiplex) and 78 first, then 39 and just east of 72, and most recently the piece connecting these two sections. I don't know if they plan on reconstructing it any farther west than 39.

[ixnay]

Work in Reading?  Got your detour plans in hand?  The Buttonwood Street bridge closes on Tues. (7/21) for two years.

http://www.wfmz.com/news/news-regional-berks/travel-changes-in-place-ahead-of-buttonwood-street-bridge-closure/34167260

ixnay

[MASTERNC]

I'd love to know when PA is going to raise more freeway speed limits to 70 MPH.  They were talking about doing it in the spring, and even the Turnpike talked about raising the speed limit systemwide.  Is Wolf's administration completely against the higher speed limit, or are they taking their time in doing speed studies?  With the exception of high profile accidents on I-380, I haven't heard of any negative changes in crash rates.

Someone must have seen my question.  That said, it shouldn't be taking this long when they were first quoting spring/summer for future changes.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/07/pennsylvania_drivers_still_wai.html#incart_river

[PHLBOS]

I'd love to know when PA is going to raise more freeway speed limits to 70 MPH.  They were talking about doing it in the spring, and even the Turnpike talked about raising the speed limit systemwide.  Is Wolf's administration completely against the higher speed limit, or are they taking their time in doing speed studies?  With the exception of high profile accidents on I-380, I haven't heard of any negative changes in crash rates.

Someone must have seen my question.  That said, it shouldn't be taking this long when they were first quoting spring/summer for future changes.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/07/pennsylvania_drivers_still_wai.html#incart_river

IMHO, and yes such is political, with a new governor (of a different party) now in charge; all bets are off in terms of adding more 70 mph limits on PA highways.

The only way I could see Gov. Wolf doing such would be if the State Legislature (both House & Senate) voted on the matter and sustained enough votes (2/3s IIRC) to override a possible veto.  For those that don't already know; Wolf has already used his veto pen once just recently (regarding the state budget); but such is another topic for another website.  I only mention this because one could see another stand-off regarding placing more 70-mph limits on other highway stretches looming in the horizon.

[jeffandnicole]

I'd love to know when PA is going to raise more freeway speed limits to 70 MPH.  They were talking about doing it in the spring, and even the Turnpike talked about raising the speed limit systemwide.  Is Wolf's administration completely against the higher speed limit, or are they taking their time in doing speed studies?  With the exception of high profile accidents on I-380, I haven't heard of any negative changes in crash rates.

Someone must have seen my question.  That said, it shouldn't be taking this long when they were first quoting spring/summer for future changes.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/07/pennsylvania_drivers_still_wai.html#incart_river

IMHO, and yes such is political, with a new governor (of a different party) now in charge; all bets are off in terms of adding more 70 mph limits on PA highways.

The only way I could see Gov. Wolf doing such would be if the State Legislature (both House & Senate) voted on the matter and sustained enough votes (2/3s IIRC) to override a possible veto.  For those that don't already know; Wolf has already used his veto pen once just recently (regarding the state budget); but such is another topic for another website.  I only mention this because one could see another stand-off regarding placing more 70-mph limits on other highway stretches looming in the horizon.

What's his attitude regarding higher limits?  And at this point, does he have much of a say on the issue?  If PennDOT or the PA Turnpike commission want to expand the limit, do they have to go thru the Governor to get it done? 

Note: There's always the issue of the Governor wanting his way, so he can highly suggest to those departments not to raise the limit. Honestly though it will be a little unusual for a limit to be tested; studies showing there's no issues with those expanded limits, and then a Governor saying we're not going to expand the limits for these (lame) reasons. 

[PHLBOS]

What's his attitude regarding higher limits?

While not completely known at this point; recent history has shown that city Democrats in PA (Wolf's from York, PA) tend to not push any efforts to increase speed limits.

And at this point, does he have much of a say on the issue?

Just like any other state, the Governor can either allow a speed limit increase initiative to either continue or place a moratorium on such. 

If PennDOT or the PA Turnpike commission want to expand the limit, do they have to go thru the Governor to get it done?

Absolutely.  Using your homestate of NJ as an example; did NJDOT, NJTA, NJHA and/or SJTA raise their speed limits to 65 before Gov. Whitman authorized such?  IIRC, it wasn't until NJ 101.5 FM made an issue of it and prompted listeners to call their state Representatives and Senators to get legislation rolling on such and submit such to Gov. Whitman.

Note: There's always the issue of the Governor wanting his way, so he can highly suggest to those departments not to raise the limit. Honestly though it will be a little unusual for a limit to be tested; studies showing there's no issues with those expanded limits, and then a Governor saying we're not going to expand the limits for these (lame) reasons.

FYI, the only reason why PA stayed at 55 from 1987 through 1995; was indeed because then-Gov. Casey (Sr.) was opposed to raising PA's maximum speed limit.

[jeffandnicole]

If PennDOT or the PA Turnpike commission want to expand the limit, do they have to go thru the Governor to get it done?

Absolutely.  Using your homestate of NJ as an example; did NJDOT, NJTA, NJHA and/or SJTA raise their speed limits to 65 before Gov. Whitman authorized such?  IIRC, it wasn't until NJ 101.5 FM made an issue of it and prompted listeners to call their state Representatives and Senators to get legislation rolling on such and submit such to Gov. Whitman.

These are different issues than what is going on in PA.

In PA, the law has already been passed to allow 70 mph, and now they are in a 'testing' phase.  The question was if the Governor needs to approve any additional increases.  From what I can tell, it's not really his call at this point.

In regards to NJ, yes, just like every other state, the governor had to pass a bill to allow a higher speed limit.  After a 3 year testing phase, NJDOT (and other authorities) determined what additional highways and stretches of existing 65 mph could be expanded, but the governor didn't have to sign off on those additions.

[02 Park Ave]

There was a story in today's Courier-Post in which it was stated that it would be a year until the decision is made.

[ixnay]

Work in Reading?  Got your detour plans in hand?  The Buttonwood Street bridge closes on Tues. (7/21) for two years.

http://www.wfmz.com/news/news-regional-berks/travel-changes-in-place-ahead-of-buttonwood-street-bridge-closure/34167260

Here's U.S. 422 westbound going under it in Oct. 2011...

http://tinyurl.com/nksu77e

And here's the view of the Schuylkill from the bridge itself in September 2011...

http://tinyurl.com/qax3suw

This button copy sign will probably go by the time the project's done, if it hasn't already...

http://tinyurl.com/p5nzgcu

And here's WFMZ-69's report...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pRywdn70qI

ixnay