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Pennsylvania

Started by Alex, March 07, 2009, 07:01:05 PM

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billpa

Quote from: Rothman on January 23, 2017, 01:16:06 PM
I can't remember if there are similar signs down in the Harrisburg area, directing New England-bound traffic to I-84.  If there are, it's probably ineffective since GoogleMaps has routed me across I-78 and "through" the City from that area to get to Hartford, Springfield or Boston for a few years now.  Makes sense from I-80; just not so sure about from I-81/PA Turnpike down south.
There's one on 81 just before the 78 split. It's under a "TRUCK INFO" banner.


https://goo.gl/maps/qP8f4TXxCyF2


HTC6525LVW



PHLBOS

Quote from: briantroutman on January 23, 2017, 01:08:49 PM
Is it me or do those direction cardinals and the TO label next to the I-84 shield appear a bit small?
GPS does NOT equal GOD

roadman

Quote from: PHLBOS on January 23, 2017, 02:22:26 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on January 23, 2017, 01:08:49 PM
Is it me or do those direction cardinals and the TO label next to the I-84 shield appear a bit small?
You beat me to the comment.  Yes, they are too small.  Per the sign design sheet posted above, they are 8 inches high with a 10 inch initial letter.  For the shield size (36"), they should be 12 inches high, with a 15 inch initial letter for 'NORTH' and "EAST" only  (The legend 'TO' does not require an initial letter).
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

thenetwork

And the "C" in New York City seems a bit too low as well.

ixnay

Where's the plug for Parsippany? :)

And what are the destinations on the WB ramp and pull through signs nowadays at that interchange?

ixnay
The Washington/Baltimore/Arlington CSA has two Key Bridges, a Minnesota Avenue, and a Mannasota Avenue.

briantroutman

Quote from: ixnay on January 24, 2017, 07:51:16 AM
And what are the destinations on the WB ramp and pull through signs nowadays at that interchange?

I didn't drive through this interchange westbound on I-80 this trip, but I did a few weeks ago, and nothing registered in my mind as being novel or different, so I'd expect they're unchanged.

As I recall, the overhead sign assembly at the EB gore point had been missing for a considerable period of time, and the installation of the new New England/New York City signs pictured above wasn't part of a comprehensive resigning project...just installing the one missing assembly.

PHLBOS

Quote from: briantroutman on January 24, 2017, 12:29:20 PMAs I recall, the overhead sign assembly at the EB gore point had been missing for a considerable period of time, and the installation of the new New England/New York City signs pictured above wasn't part of a comprehensive resigning project...just installing the one missing assembly.
Looking at the older GSVs from nearly 10 years ago; the older BGS' at that location only featured single-line control cities of Wilkes-Barre & Hazelton.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

ixnay

#432
Quote from: briantroutman on January 24, 2017, 12:29:20 PM
Quote from: ixnay on January 24, 2017, 07:51:16 AM
And what are the destinations on the WB ramp and pull through signs nowadays at that interchange?

I didn't drive through this interchange westbound on I-80 this trip, but I did a few weeks ago, and nothing registered in my mind as being novel or different, so I'd expect they're unchanged.

As I recall, the overhead sign assembly at the EB gore point had been missing for a considerable period of time, and the installation of the new New England/New York City signs pictured above wasn't part of a comprehensive resigning project...just installing the one missing assembly.

In October 2015 the overhead sign assembly was still missing at that gore point per GSV. 

GSV's latest view of the westbound exit 260B gore point was uploaded in Oct. 2011, when Bloomsburg was the pull through control city on WB 80, Harrisburg the SB 81 control city, and Wilkes-Barre the NB 81 control city.

ixnay

The Washington/Baltimore/Arlington CSA has two Key Bridges, a Minnesota Avenue, and a Mannasota Avenue.

epzik8

Quote from: roadman on January 23, 2017, 02:54:33 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on January 23, 2017, 02:22:26 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on January 23, 2017, 01:08:49 PM
Is it me or do those direction cardinals and the TO label next to the I-84 shield appear a bit small?
You beat me to the comment.  Yes, they are too small.  Per the sign design sheet posted above, they are 8 inches high with a 10 inch initial letter.  For the shield size (36"), they should be 12 inches high, with a 15 inch initial letter for 'NORTH' and "EAST" only  (The legend 'TO' does not require an initial letter).
New England! The city where the Patriots play! /s
From the land of red, white, yellow and black.
____________________________

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roadman

Quote from: epzik8 on January 24, 2017, 07:27:11 PM
Quote from: roadman on January 23, 2017, 02:54:33 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on January 23, 2017, 02:22:26 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on January 23, 2017, 01:08:49 PM
Is it me or do those direction cardinals and the TO label next to the I-84 shield appear a bit small?
You beat me to the comment.  Yes, they are too small.  Per the sign design sheet posted above, they are 8 inches high with a 10 inch initial letter.  For the shield size (36"), they should be 12 inches high, with a 15 inch initial letter for 'NORTH' and "EAST" only  (The legend 'TO' does not require an initial letter).
New England! The city where the Patriots play! /s
Which got me thinking.  Why Wilkes-Barre and not Scranton?  As Scranton is the I-81/I-84 junction, it would make more sense to use that as the control city.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

Mr_Northside

Quote from: roadman on January 25, 2017, 02:34:19 PM
Which got me thinking.  Why Wilkes-Barre and not Scranton?  As Scranton is the I-81/I-84 junction, it would make more sense to use that as the control city.

That's one of the first things I was thinking.  I also thought (but could very well be wrong) that Scranton was bigger as well.
I don't have opinions anymore. All I know is that no one is better than anyone else, and everyone is the best at everything

briantroutman

Quote from: Mr_Northside on January 25, 2017, 02:54:58 PM
Quote from: roadman on January 25, 2017, 02:34:19 PM
Which got me thinking.  Why Wilkes-Barre and not Scranton?  As Scranton is the I-81/I-84 junction, it would make more sense to use that as the control city.

That's one of the first things I was thinking.  I also thought (but could very well be wrong) that Scranton was bigger as well.

Population-wise, Scranton is nearly twice the size of Wilkes-Barre (77,000 vs. 40,000), although the cluster of municipalities that makes up greater Wilkes-Barre is even more fragmented (W-B City vs. W-B Township, plus Kingston, Forty-Fort, etc.) than that of greater Scranton, so the practical gap in city size is perhaps not as great.

But I understand that there is a certain us vs. them dynamic at work–enough that Wilkes-Barre resident and former (and disgraced) Congressman Dan Flood fought relentlessly to get the airport designated as "Wilkes-Barre/Scranton"  and not "Scranton/Wilkes-Barre" .

I grew up in Williamsport, where the local TV network affiliates are all translators of Scranton/Wilkes-Barre stations (with token coverage of Central PA), and I always thought of the two cities as a unit. But my wife, who's a native of Wilkes-Barre, says that the two cities are different worlds that rarely intermix. She grew up reading W-B newspapers, listening to W-B radio, and shopping at W-B stores–never going to Scranton.

That brings up the question of "twin city"  pairs in general. Heading east out of Abilene on I-20, does TxDOT sign the larger Dallas or the smaller Fort Worth that you encounter first? Same thing on I-94 heading west out of Wisconsin: St. Paul or Minneapolis? Perhaps the better question is: How should these pairs be signed?

In the case of I-81, I believe PennDOT signs whichever you hit first–Wilkes-Barre northbound and Scranton southbound.

amroad17

As far as your question about Wisconsin, St. Paul is signed as the control city on I-94 from Tomah on west of the I-90/I-94 split.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

cpzilliacus

N.Y. Times: As Trump Vows Building Splurge, Famed Traffic Choke Point Offers Warning

QuoteMillions of people who travel between the Mid-Atlantic and the Midwest each year fight through Breezewood, Pa., a strange gap in the Interstate System. A leg of Route I-70 brings drivers north from Washington and Baltimore to plug into the Pennsylvania Turnpike and the great road network that runs west to the heartland cities of Pittsburgh, Cleveland and Chicago.

QuoteBut no ramps join these two huge highways at their crossing. Instead, drivers travel an extra two-mile loop that takes them out of rural Appalachia and into several suddenly urban blocks with traffic lights and a dense bazaar of gas stations, fast-food restaurants and motels.

Quote"Things that make no sense: Breezewood, Pa. Why does the interstate turn into an interchange?"  Stephanie Wonderlick recently posted on Twitter as she and her family returned home to Washington from Milwaukee.

QuoteShe is not alone. Many other drivers vent similar – often profane – anger and confusion about this notorious choke point. As a Washingtonian from northern Indiana who transits Breezewood for family visits, I have often wondered the same thing – a question that became more galling after my younger son, jolted by our sudden deceleration into the area's stop-and-go traffic, threw up all over the back seat.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

jeffandnicole

While it was nice that the NY Times highlighted the interchange issues, I'm still scratching my head at to how Trump's infrastructure plan has anything remotely in common with it. 

In fact, Trump's name was only mentioned  once throughout this story....and in such unrelated fashion that it offered no clue as to what his policies would do in such situations. 

If anything, why didn't they question Shuster? Well, they tried, but got no response. So they just threw together something, added Trump's name to it, and published it.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 07, 2017, 12:10:20 AM
If anything, why didn't they question Shuster? Well, they tried, but got no response. So they just threw together something, added Trump's name to it, and published it.

I did not write it, but I think they were trying to point out that some of these things require more thinking and analysis than some in the administration want  to devote to such issues. 

The effective ban on a connection between "free" (90% funded by federal taxes) Interstates and the state toll roads being an example of that (fortunately it was repealed at some point).
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

ixnay

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 07, 2017, 12:10:20 AMIf anything, why didn't they question Shuster? Well, they tried, but got no response.

More like, why didn't Shuster want to be questioned?  I wonder how the Times contacted his office (phone?  Email?)?  Did the Times' request ever even get past Shuster's staff?  What goes through windbags' minds when they decide to turn down requests for comment?

ixnay
The Washington/Baltimore/Arlington CSA has two Key Bridges, a Minnesota Avenue, and a Mannasota Avenue.

AlexandriaVA

I think it's fair to say that major media organizations like the NY Times and Washington Post have established and proven ways to reach out to various elected officials for comment.

jeffandnicole

I think the story was more of a rant.  Take this paragraph:

Quote...As a Washingtonian from northern Indiana who transits Breezewood for family visits, I have often wondered the same thing – a question that became more galling after my younger son, jolted by our sudden deceleration into the area's stop-and-go traffic, threw up all over the back seat.

Basically, like many of us, he doesn't like the interchange.  So he wrote a story.  And if you look up his NY Times stories, since January 21, every single one of them involves Trump.  That probably makes sense being he's the Times' White House Correspondent.  But on something like this, being that we're dealing with policies from the '60s and '70s that allowed this intersection of 2 interstates to happen, and dealing with house leaders under numerous other administrations that had nothing to do with Trump, he really had to stretch this story to involve Trump somehow. 

As far as his sick kid goes...no doubt the writer has been thru this area many times before.  And no doubt dad has gone thru traffic lights before.  Sounds like the kid has the cold/virus that has hit practically all of America.  He just chose to get sick in the car in Breezewood!

However, the story itself was informative, and this is where it moves away from politics, the presidential kind, and towards politics, the other kind.  And in many respects, when you read between and through the lines, it's how most projects get done:  You need a lead agency that commits to getting something done.  In PA's case, they decided to allow the local areas to have a great deal of say in the project (NJ is the same way).  And being that Breezewood knows they have a good thing going for them, any elected official in the area, if he wants to stay elected, is going to do whatever they can to keep Breezewood from being bypassed.

AlexandriaVA

Furthermore I would wager that most people who work in Breezewood who voted were Trump voters. It would be ironic if a Trump project put them out-of-business.

jeffandnicole

Being that there's absolutely no talk whatsoever about converting Breezewood to a regular, sensible interchange, I don't think we have to worry about who voted for who.

amroad17

People should appreciate the novelty that is Breezewood.  Yes, there is stop-and-go traffic at times but where else on our Interstate system is something quite like this?  I never did mind driving through Breezewood--in fact, I would purposely stop there just to eat or fuel up.  Building a new interchange bypassing Breezewood would financially put a big dent in the area.  If Breezewood is such a pain to people then they should find a way not to drive through Breezewood.  There are ways to avoid it--if it is such a hassle.  I, myself, find Breezewood to be unique and a throwback to our early days of the Interstate system--and if I need to drive through there to go to a certain destination, then I will.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

sparker

Quote from: amroad17 on February 10, 2017, 07:51:09 PM
People should appreciate the novelty that is Breezewood.  Yes, there is stop-and-go traffic at times but where else on our Interstate system is something quite like this?  I never did mind driving through Breezewood--in fact, I would purposely stop there just to eat or fuel up.  Building a new interchange bypassing Breezewood would financially put a big dent in the area.  If Breezewood is such a pain to people then they should find a way not to drive through Breezewood.  There are ways to avoid it--if it is such a hassle.  I, myself, find Breezewood to be unique and a throwback to our early days of the Interstate system--and if I need to drive through there to go to a certain destination, then I will.

WTF?  Yeah, it's unique -- but a throwback?  First time I've heard anyone nostalgic for the times when the Interstate network was still in bits & pieces.  Sort of reminds me of that old Dana Carvey SNL sketch where the elderly gentleman waxes on about unpleasant or even cruel practices of his youth, concluding with the phrase "And we LIKED it!" :-D  Oh well, to each their own, I suppose.

cpzilliacus

#448
Quote from: amroad17 on February 10, 2017, 07:51:09 PM
People should appreciate the novelty that is Breezewood.  Yes, there is stop-and-go traffic at times but where else on our Interstate system is something quite like this?  I never did mind driving through Breezewood--in fact, I would purposely stop there just to eat or fuel up.  Building a new interchange bypassing Breezewood would financially put a big dent in the area.  If Breezewood is such a pain to people then they should find a way not to drive through Breezewood.  There are ways to avoid it--if it is such a hassle.  I, myself, find Breezewood to be unique and a throwback to our early days of the Interstate system--and if I need to drive through there to go to a certain destination, then I will.

Not that much in the way of routes to bypass Breezewood.  I suppose it is possible to exit I-70 westbound at Pennsylvania Exit 168 (Warfordsburg) onto U.S. 522 northbound, and follow 522 about 37 miles to enter the Pennsylvania Turnpike at Exit 180, Fort Littleton (means a higher toll charge, of course).

For drivers headed west on I-70 beyond Washington, Pennsylvania, taking I-68 from Hancock, Maryland into West Virginia, then north on either Toll PA-43 back to I-70 at California; or I-79 to I-70 at Washington.

I do not include routes involving U.S. 30 through Breezewood because it also involves the schlock of the place.

But for drivers wanting to take I-70 to Breezewood, then I-76 beyond New Stanton, the alternatives are not that great - I suppose U.S. 220 from I-68 east of Cumberland to Bedford is one; or U.S. 219 from I-68 at Grantsville to Somerset is another.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: amroad17 on February 10, 2017, 07:51:09 PM
People should appreciate the novelty that is Breezewood.  Yes, there is stop-and-go traffic at times but where else on our Interstate system is something quite like this?  I never did mind driving through Breezewood--in fact, I would purposely stop there just to eat or fuel up.  Building a new interchange bypassing Breezewood would financially put a big dent in the area.  If Breezewood is such a pain to people then they should find a way not to drive through Breezewood.  There are ways to avoid it--if it is such a hassle.  I, myself, find Breezewood to be unique and a throwback to our early days of the Interstate system--and if I need to drive through there to go to a certain destination, then I will.

If you want a throwback, take many of the US routes that parallel interstate highways.

Unfortunately, this attitude is why Breezewood exists.  The majority of the drivers show no interest in stopping here.



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