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Pennsylvania

Started by Alex, March 07, 2009, 07:01:05 PM

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PHLBOS

I used it last Saturday to attend in New Year's Eve party in Plumstead Twp.  While the road wasn't fully gridlocked like I-476 is during rush hour; it does bunch up at the traffic lights and was congested due to a slow-poke driver going under the posted 40-mph speed limit for no visual reason.

Thankfully, for the way home, I had the road all to myself.
GPS does NOT equal GOD


Duke87

Quote from: Steve on January 02, 2014, 10:57:29 PM
Is it getting backed up? I haven't heard of issues.

On the couple occasions I've been on it since the Doylestown meet, it has been rather pokey. Not "backed up", but still LOS D-E.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

jemacedo9

I've been on this 3 times since it's opening.  Twice, it was a pleasant experience.  The third, I was stuck behind a horse truck who didn't want to go above 30...that was annoying.  That said, it is DEFINITELY an upgrade over following the old 202 through Montgomeryville, Chalfont, and New Britain.  Because there are very few access points, I think it's an OK compromise.  I get the point of some of the curves built in, as a way of reducing speeds, but I think some of the curves are a little overdone.

It seems like southbound right after the 611 ramps, the change from 4 lanes to 2 is quite abrupt and forced.  They could have extended the 4 lane at least another 1/2 mile or so IMO.

froggie

PennDOT has 2012 traffic maps up for Montgomery and Bucks that show the new 202.  Looks like a range between 13K and 19K.  High-end for a 2-lane road, but not insurmountable, and as others have noted the limited-access helps.  Still not at the level of the 25K ADT slog on 222 between Reading and PA 853...

Duke87

Hmm... y'know, my perception of the road is probably more about speed than about capacity. I find it aggravating to drive because I feel like I should be doing 60 but the road is posted at 40, the locals all obey that, and there is no opportunity to pass anyone.

If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

empirestate

Quote from: Duke87 on January 05, 2014, 12:39:14 PM
Hmm... y'know, my perception of the road is probably more about speed than about capacity. I find it aggravating to drive because I feel like I should be doing 60 but the road is posted at 40, the locals all obey that, and there is no opportunity to pass anyone.

Sounds like the reverse of the Bronx River Parkway...the locals all zoom down the road, while there's that one guy (often me) who actually wants to go the posted 40.

PHLBOS

Recent (as of 1/12/14) Article regarding the 202 Parkway.

Central Bucks' 202 Parkway remains controversial

Excerpts:

The decades-long controversy that marked the Route 202 Parkway's design hasn't abated much in the year since the road from Montgomeryville to Doylestown opened.

From critics who find the $200 million road too narrow and choked with trucks, to supporters who hail it as a scenic traffic solution with a great trail system, the winding parkway continues to spur debate as it moves vehicles between Routes 611 and 309.

In November, Warrington officials called on the state's secretary of transportation to prohibit truck traffic on the 8½-mile parkway and eliminate the bike lane. Not likely, said PennDOT, reminding the municipality it was involved in the road's design.

"It was determined early on that the Parkway speed limit would be 40 mph, that it would be open to commercial vehicles and that five-foot wide paved shoulders on each side (of the road) would function as bicycle lanes," wrote Lester Toaso, PennDOT's District 6 executive.
...

"The Route 202 Parkway provides excellent access to and from Route 309 – except when 18-wheelers dominate travel, do not maintain the speed limit ... nor safely navigate curves," Allen McQuarrie of Doylestown Township wrote The Intelligencer newspaper in Doylestown.

"It's our favorite road to hate," quipped Mike Concordia, a Doylestown man who said he drives the road every day to work. While the road provides a quicker trip between Montgomeryville and Doylestown, Concordia criticized the speed limit, calling it "a recipe for disaster."

If you're not speeding, you'll be tailgated, said many drivers.
...

Should it have been the original four-lane expressway, envisioned for decades, or is a bucolic, mostly two-lane parkway with an 11-foot-wide multiuse trail more efficient?

John W. Jones of Solebury sees it this way: "As to the 202 Parkway, as it has been constructed, I can barely think of a road that cost more money and benefited fewer people," he wrote to The Intelligencer.

Others have called the road beautiful and applauded the broad trail where families can walk and ride bikes.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

rickmastfan67

I-83 Southbound has been closed near the Maryland State Line because of a failure of deteriorating drainage pipe undermining the pavement that has caused a dip in the pavement because of a major void under both lanes.

http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Penndot/Districts/D8news.nsf/a2a8ee9f2c47a24b8525783a004f753a/86f284b27cd1428b85257c8e00215dde?OpenDocument

Gnutella

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on March 02, 2014, 05:51:01 PM
I-83 Southbound has been closed near the Maryland State Line because of a failure of deteriorating drainage pipe undermining the pavement that has caused a dip in the pavement because of a major void under both lanes.

http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Penndot/Districts/D8news.nsf/a2a8ee9f2c47a24b8525783a004f753a/86f284b27cd1428b85257c8e00215dde?OpenDocument

That entire highway from I-81 to the Maryland state line just needs to be rebuilt.

qguy

The contrast of I-83 between PA and MD is so stark that it's a complete disgrace to the state of PA. The only bright spot on the entire length of the highway within PA is the relatively new interchange with Business 83.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: qguy on March 03, 2014, 08:11:41 PM
The contrast of I-83 between PA and MD is so stark that it's a complete disgrace to the state of PA. The only bright spot on the entire length of the highway within PA is the relatively new interchange with Business 83.

Agreed.

A former colleague (who once worked for the Pennsylvania Department of Highways) told me that I-83 is so bad between Harrisburg and the Maryland border because it is old U.S. 111, and was in effect "upgraded in place" to the highway that's there today. 

But I find it inexcusable that PennDOT spent a lot of money reconstructing the freeway between York and I-76 (Turnpike) in the 1990's, yet after the reconstruction was done, the same substandard interchange designs remained, effectively unchanged!
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Gnutella

Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 04, 2014, 08:06:51 AM
Quote from: qguy on March 03, 2014, 08:11:41 PM
The contrast of I-83 between PA and MD is so stark that it's a complete disgrace to the state of PA. The only bright spot on the entire length of the highway within PA is the relatively new interchange with Business 83.

Agreed.

A former colleague (who once worked for the Pennsylvania Department of Highways) told me that I-83 is so bad between Harrisburg and the Maryland border because it is old U.S. 111, and was in effect "upgraded in place" to the highway that's there today. 

But I find it inexcusable that PennDOT spent a lot of money reconstructing the freeway between York and I-76 (Turnpike) in the 1990's, yet after the reconstruction was done, the same substandard interchange designs remained, effectively unchanged!

I wonder if it's more of a "District 8" problem than a PennDOT problem, because I remember I-79 being reconstructed between I-70 and I-376 (nee I-279) back in the 1990's, and there are nice, long acceleration and deceleration lanes at all the interchanges along the way. The same is true of I-79 between the West Virginia state line and I-70 as well.

Roadsguy

Quote from: Gnutella on March 03, 2014, 04:57:42 AM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on March 02, 2014, 05:51:01 PM
I-83 Southbound has been closed near the Maryland State Line because of a failure of deteriorating drainage pipe undermining the pavement that has caused a dip in the pavement because of a major void under both lanes.

http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Penndot/Districts/D8news.nsf/a2a8ee9f2c47a24b8525783a004f753a/86f284b27cd1428b85257c8e00215dde?OpenDocument

That entire highway from I-81 to the Maryland state line just needs to be rebuilt.

And six-laned all the way down to Baltimore, and eight-laned near the end where it's already six lanes. (Extra width in the median at bridges suggests MDOT's plans to do that.)
Mileage-based exit numbering implies the existence of mileage-cringe exit numbering.

Alps

Quote from: Roadsguy on March 04, 2014, 04:25:10 PM
Quote from: Gnutella on March 03, 2014, 04:57:42 AM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on March 02, 2014, 05:51:01 PM
I-83 Southbound has been closed near the Maryland State Line because of a failure of deteriorating drainage pipe undermining the pavement that has caused a dip in the pavement because of a major void under both lanes.

http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Penndot/Districts/D8news.nsf/a2a8ee9f2c47a24b8525783a004f753a/86f284b27cd1428b85257c8e00215dde?OpenDocument

That entire highway from I-81 to the Maryland state line just needs to be rebuilt.

And six-laned all the way down to Baltimore, and eight-laned near the end where it's already six lanes. (Extra width in the median at bridges suggests MDOT's plans to do that.)
I think the eight-lane near the end is overkill. The extra width would make sense if I-83 continued to I-95, in which case you'd need the extra capacity for through traffic. (How you know I'm in the middle of updating: I tried to add <a> tags to I-83 and I-95...)

Gnutella

Honestly, I'd like to see a full-scale Interstate renumbering in the Mid-Atlantic. It'd go like this...

I-85 would be extended north to Canada, multiplexing with I-95 between Richmond and the Capital Beltway around Washington DC. It'd then follow the western portion of the beltway, opposite of I-95, before multiplexing with I-95 again up to Baltimore. From there, it'd replace I-695 around the northwestern portion of Baltimore, the entirety of I-83 between Baltimore and Harrisburg, and I-81 from Harrisburg to the Canadian border via Syracuse. I-81 would be truncated to Harrisburg. I-83 would be realigned along I-270 and U.S. 15 between Washington DC and Harrisburg, and eventually extended north to Rochester via Williamsport. I-495 would be decommissioned around Washington DC in favor of I-95 along the eastern arc and I-85 along the western arc. This would give both Pennsylvania and New York another Interstate ending in '5' that doesn't just clip the southeastern corners of each.

empirestate

Quote from: Gnutella on March 04, 2014, 09:53:47 PM
Honestly, I'd like to see a full-scale Interstate renumbering in the Mid-Atlantic. It'd go like this...

I-85 would be extended north to Canada, multiplexing with I-95 between Richmond and the Capital Beltway around Washington DC. It'd then follow the western portion of the beltway, opposite of I-95, before multiplexing with I-95 again up to Baltimore. From there, it'd replace I-695 around the northwestern portion of Baltimore, the entirety of I-83 between Baltimore and Harrisburg, and I-81 from Harrisburg to the Canadian border via Syracuse. I-81 would be truncated to Harrisburg. I-83 would be realigned along I-270 and U.S. 15 between Washington DC and Harrisburg, and eventually extended north to Rochester via Williamsport. I-495 would be decommissioned around Washington DC in favor of I-95 along the eastern arc and I-85 along the western arc. This would give both Pennsylvania and New York another Interstate ending in '5' that doesn't just clip the southeastern corners of each.

My plan for I-85 does that as well, but by bringing it up from Charleston SC and Charleston, WV (I-77) via Pittsburgh and Erie (I-79), then via Buffalo (I-90) to Niagara Falls (I-190) and Canada.

(I would also consider an I-85W from Charleston, WV to Cleveland, giving that city an I-x5, but that's beside the point.)

Gnutella

Personally, I'm against using suffixes for Interstate numbers except in special occasions like in Dallas/Fort Worth and Minneapolis/St. Paul.

As for routing I-85 through Pittsburgh and Buffalo, it'd make sense since they're halfway between I-75 and I-95, but practically speaking, it's unrealistic. What I'd do instead is lengthen I-79 into a long-haul Interstate. I also have plans for I-77 in this regard.

I'd keep I-79 where it is in Pennsylvania and northern West Virginia, but then I'd route it down U.S. 19 to Beckley, and then route it down I-77 via Charlotte to its terminus in Columbia, SC.

As for I-77, I'd keep it where it is in Ohio and part of West Virginia, but south of Charleston I'd route it down U.S. 119 and U.S. 23 through Pikeville, KY and Big Stone Gap, VA. After that I'd route it down I-26 from the "Tri-Cities" area of Tennessee through Asheville to its new terminus at an extended I-24 near Clinton, SC.

On that note, I'd extend I-24 east from Chattanooga into western North Carolina, and then figure out a way to route it down to Greenville, SC where it would then take the place of I-385 and I-26 to Charleston, SC.

Doing all this would make I-79 the primary "Canada to Carolinas" route, I-24 the primary "Heartland to Carolinas" route, and I-77 the primary "Heart of Appalachia" route.

I have other ideas too, like truncating I-94 to Milwaukee, renumbering the portion in Michigan and Indiana as I-92, renumbering I-43 to Green Bay as an extension of I-55, renumbering I-39 as I-53, renumbering I-45 and I-29 as I-39, renumbering U.S. 77, U.S. 59 and I-49 between Brownsville, TX and Kansas City, and I-35 from Kansas City north as I-45, and building a new I-35 alignment from Wichita up to the Canadian border via Minot, ND.

PHLBOS

Quote from: Gnutella on March 05, 2014, 09:40:06 AM
If you haven't done so (or seen it), you might want to check out and/or post your fore-mentioned fictional/fantasy schemes in the Fictional Highways section of the forum
GPS does NOT equal GOD

rickmastfan67

Quote from: PHLBOS on March 05, 2014, 10:08:36 AM
Quote from: Gnutella on March 05, 2014, 09:40:06 AM
If you haven't done so (or seen it), you might want to check out and/or post your fore-mentioned fictional/fantasy schemes in the Fictional Highways section of the forum

Yep.  We try to keep the threads in this area 'fictional free'.

empirestate

Quote from: Gnutella on March 05, 2014, 09:40:06 AM
Personally, I'm against using suffixes for Interstate numbers except in special occasions like in Dallas/Fort Worth and Minneapolis/St. Paul.

This would be such a special occasion: Cleveland/Pittsburgh. :-D

QuoteAs for routing I-85 through Pittsburgh and Buffalo, it'd make sense since they're halfway between I-75 and I-95, but practically speaking, it's unrealistic.

That's OK; the purpose of my scheme isn't to be realistic. Its purpose is to conform the numbering grid as nearly as possible given the roads that exist now and the cities that ought to be served.

But yes, it belongs in Fictional Highways; one day hopefully I'll post my I-85 ideas over there.

ARMOURERERIC

So, do we have any tangible results from the gas tax hie yet, other the the SoBeltway work?

Gnutella

Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on March 20, 2014, 12:11:57 AM
So, do we have any tangible results from the gas tax hie yet, other the the SoBeltway work?

I think they're going to announce new projects in April, when construction season begins.

Gnutella

One thing I've noticed in Pennsylvania is that there seem to be two different builders of signs. One does an excellent job, and they build those ribbed signs that can break away in small segments. The other does kind of a lousy job, and they build more plated signs that don't break away as cleanly. The good sign makers seem to be found mostly across the southern part of the state, and the lousy sign makers are found more across the northern parts of the state. I wonder if it's done by district? If it is, then Districts 1 and 4 seem to have a lot of lousy signs, and Districts 5 and 10 have a few, while the rest of the districts are mostly good signs.

ARMOURERERIC


jpi

Wow! I knew this was coming but still hits you when you used to work at said Denny's and very familiar with the interchange (I am refering to the sub link on the I-83 Mt Rose AVE exit) Looks like possibly some time late 2015 will be another road meet for me to host ;-)
Jason Ilyes
JPI
Lebanon, TN
Home Of The Barrel



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