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Maryland

Started by Alps, May 22, 2011, 12:10:09 AM

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jmacswimmer

Quote from: plain on October 12, 2021, 10:04:30 PM
Quote from: TheOneKEA on October 12, 2021, 09:40:48 PM
Quote from: MASTERNC on October 11, 2021, 11:40:52 AM
I don't get why Maryland won't at least post the video toll rate. They only post the MD E-ZPass rate now.
E-ZPass is very common in suburban Maryland because of the formerly legendary backups at the cash lanes at the Bay Bridge toll plaza. I suspect the MdTA doesn't post the video toll rate because very few people would care (because they have E-ZPass), and the remainder who would care probably already know what the rate is.
Still, there are plenty of people who don't have an E-ZPass (let alone an MD issued one). They should've shown the other rate in some capacity.

Good news - it seems someone from MDTA read this thread! Didn't get any pictures because it was night, but as of this evening the following has been added on all 3 of the toll rate signs (in the extra space above the Maryland E-ZPass rate):

"VIDEO BY MAIL  $12.00"

Now they just need to add the out-of-state E-ZPass rate and we'll be all set ;-)
"Now, what if da Bearss were to enter the Indianapolis 5-hunnert?"
"How would they compete?"
"Let's say they rode together in a big buss."
"Is Ditka driving?"
"Of course!"
"Then I like da Bear buss."
"DA BEARSSS BUSSSS"


cpzilliacus

Quote from: jmacswimmer on October 22, 2021, 08:44:00 PM
Good news - it seems someone from MDTA read this thread! Didn't get any pictures because it was night, but as of this evening the following has been added on all 3 of the toll rate signs (in the extra space above the Maryland E-ZPass rate):

"VIDEO BY MAIL  $12.00"

Now they just need to add the out-of-state E-ZPass rate and we'll be all set ;-)

I've a better idea - forbid all forms of transponder discrimination™ on all U.S. toll roads, save for islands that can only be reached by toll crossings (Staten Island and (maybe) Grand Island, N.Y.) and Sanibel Island, Florida are examples where residents could be granted a discount from list price tolls.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

noelbotevera

Is there a story behind the US 29 freeway? For one thing, it ends at a very odd location BUT there's no hint of a stub.

The only things I can infer from Historic Aerials and USEnds:
-The US 29/US 40 interchange was where US 29 ended for many years, with the new alignment opening in 1955 and the freeway opening around 1970 (the 1971 topo shows the freeway complete to MD 99).
-There is empty land north of MD 99, but this quickly peters out likely because of the Patapsco River to the north.
-The US 29/I-70 interchange is built rather sloppily given that a major movement (70 EB -> 29 SB) is handled by a one lane ramp.  Still, the interchange was built with access to all directions...so why build a full interchange if you don't plan to extend your freeway north?
-SIDENOTE: Whoever designed the US 29/MD 100 interchange in 1998 should've been fired, since I-70 traffic has to weave to the left to reach MD 100. Seriously, left exits in 1998?

My guess is that MDSHA may have wanted to have the option to extend the freeway, but decided that there was no point in extending 29 northward, so I-70 (really MD 99) was a good place to stop.

Roadsguy

Quote from: noelbotevera on October 24, 2021, 03:46:24 PM
Is there a story behind the US 29 freeway? For one thing, it ends at a very odd location BUT there's no hint of a stub.

The only things I can infer from Historic Aerials and USEnds:
-The US 29/US 40 interchange was where US 29 ended for many years, with the new alignment opening in 1955 and the freeway opening around 1970 (the 1971 topo shows the freeway complete to MD 99).
-There is empty land north of MD 99, but this quickly peters out likely because of the Patapsco River to the north.
-The US 29/I-70 interchange is built rather sloppily given that a major movement (70 EB -> 29 SB) is handled by a one lane ramp.  Still, the interchange was built with access to all directions...so why build a full interchange if you don't plan to extend your freeway north?
-SIDENOTE: Whoever designed the US 29/MD 100 interchange in 1998 should've been fired, since I-70 traffic has to weave to the left to reach MD 100. Seriously, left exits in 1998?

My guess is that MDSHA may have wanted to have the option to extend the freeway, but decided that there was no point in extending 29 northward, so I-70 (really MD 99) was a good place to stop.

They did plan to extend it north to form the northern half of the outer beltway of Baltimore, the southern half of which is formed by MD 100 (numbered similarly to MD 200, the closest thing we have to an outer beltway of Washington, DC). I don't know if it was planned to be designated US 29 or more of MD 100, but I did see at one point a map of the more recently proposed freeways and at-grade expressways in the Baltimore area. This map also indicated that some of this outer beltway would have been an at-grade expressway with interchanges, but I've never been able to find this map again...
Mileage-based exit numbering implies the existence of mileage-cringe exit numbering.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: Roadsguy on October 24, 2021, 06:42:52 PM
They did plan to extend it north to form the northern half of the outer beltway of Baltimore, the southern half of which is formed by MD 100 (numbered similarly to MD 200, the closest thing we have to an outer beltway of Washington, DC). I don't know if it was planned to be designated US 29 or more of MD 100, but I did see at one point a map of the more recently proposed freeways and at-grade expressways in the Baltimore area. This map also indicated that some of this outer beltway would have been an at-grade expressway with interchanges, but I've never been able to find this map again...

I think there was an expectation of U.S. 29 (or maybe MD-100) running as far north as (what is now) I-795 and maybe beyond to the mostly never-built East/West Highway (signed as part of MD-23 in Harford County and not the same as MD-410 in the Maryland suburbs of Washington, D.C.) which would have connected I-95, I-83, MD-27, U.S. 15 and I-70 (well to the west of Frederick).
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

roadman65

Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 25, 2021, 04:45:00 AM
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 24, 2021, 06:42:52 PM
They did plan to extend it north to form the northern half of the outer beltway of Baltimore, the southern half of which is formed by MD 100 (numbered similarly to MD 200, the closest thing we have to an outer beltway of Washington, DC). I don't know if it was planned to be designated US 29 or more of MD 100, but I did see at one point a map of the more recently proposed freeways and at-grade expressways in the Baltimore area. This map also indicated that some of this outer beltway would have been an at-grade expressway with interchanges, but I've never been able to find this map again...

I think there was an expectation of U.S. 29 (or maybe MD-100) running as far north as (what is now) I-795 and maybe beyond to the mostly never-built East/West Highway (signed as part of MD-23 in Harford County and not the same as MD-410 in the Maryland suburbs of Washington, D.C.) which would have connected I-95, I-83, MD-27, U.S. 15 and I-70 (well to the west of Frederick).

That would be nice for PA traffic heading to DC and points south as a good alternative to I-95.  Of course that probably died like the cancelled outer beltway for Washington.  The latter is needed and could be still done extending I-97 south of Annapolis and having it follow US 301 to Richmond or have it return to I-95 in Ruther Glen, VA with VA 207.

Not only would the 97 designation be useful in its nature, but help long distance travelers passing through the region and provide a better alternative to the the ever growing congestion due to sprawl in Northern Virginia that makes I-95 no fun to travel anymore.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

kernals12

Quote from: roadman65 on November 02, 2021, 11:37:42 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 25, 2021, 04:45:00 AM
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 24, 2021, 06:42:52 PM
They did plan to extend it north to form the northern half of the outer beltway of Baltimore, the southern half of which is formed by MD 100 (numbered similarly to MD 200, the closest thing we have to an outer beltway of Washington, DC). I don't know if it was planned to be designated US 29 or more of MD 100, but I did see at one point a map of the more recently proposed freeways and at-grade expressways in the Baltimore area. This map also indicated that some of this outer beltway would have been an at-grade expressway with interchanges, but I've never been able to find this map again...

I think there was an expectation of U.S. 29 (or maybe MD-100) running as far north as (what is now) I-795 and maybe beyond to the mostly never-built East/West Highway (signed as part of MD-23 in Harford County and not the same as MD-410 in the Maryland suburbs of Washington, D.C.) which would have connected I-95, I-83, MD-27, U.S. 15 and I-70 (well to the west of Frederick).

That would be nice for PA traffic heading to DC and points south as a good alternative to I-95.  Of course that probably died like the cancelled outer beltway for Washington.  The latter is needed and could be still done extending I-97 south of Annapolis and having it follow US 301 to Richmond or have it return to I-95 in Ruther Glen, VA with VA 207.

Not only would the 97 designation be useful in its nature, but help long distance travelers passing through the region and provide a better alternative to the the ever growing congestion due to sprawl in Northern Virginia that makes I-95 no fun to travel anymore.

I think an Outer Beltway is inevitable. In fact, between VA 28 and the ICC, much of it already exists and as more of VA 234's signalized intersections become interchanges, that reality gets closer and closer. Once the Manassas Bypass is finished, Virginia will be all set to build an outer Beltway.

1995hoo

I think if you were going to wager on something, you'd probably get a better return on the Powerball than you would on the absurd comment in Reply #2181.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Alps

Quote from: 1995hoo on November 02, 2021, 04:33:18 PM
I think if you were going to wager on something, you'd probably get a better return on the Powerball than you would on the absurd comment in Reply #2181.
Be nice and remember all content must contribute to the discussion.

cpzilliacus

#2184
Quote from: kernals12 on November 02, 2021, 04:29:56 PM
I think an Outer Beltway is inevitable. In fact, between VA 28 and the ICC, much of it already exists and as more of VA 234's signalized intersections become interchanges, that reality gets closer and closer. Once the Manassas Bypass is finished, Virginia will be all set to build an outer Beltway.

The reason to build a full Outer Beltway is there but the two counties
which it would pass through in Maryland have deleted all of it except
MD-200 from all planning maps and other documents, so I do not
believe it will happen in the coming decades.  Anything is possible
50 to 100 years out, but I do not take any of it seriously.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

kernals12

#2185
Quote from: cpzilliacus on November 02, 2021, 07:31:02 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on November 02, 2021, 04:29:56 PM
I think an Outer Beltway is inevitable. In fact, between VA 28 and the ICC, much of it already exists and as more of VA 234's signalized intersections become interchanges, that reality gets closer and closer. Once the Manassas Bypass is finished, Virginia will be all set to build an outer Beltway.

The reason to build a full Outer Beltway is there but the two counties
which it would pass through in Maryland have deleted all of it except
MD-200 from all planning maps and other documents, so I do not
believe it will happen in the coming decades.  Anything is possible
50 to 100 years out, but I do not take any of it seriously.

If the widening of the AL Bridge doesn't fix the traffic problem, then the Outer Beltway will be the only option. The residents of Western Montco can complain all they want, but they'll be up against powerful business and government interests in both states and probably a majority of public opinion in the DC Area.

1995hoo

I think you seriously underestimate the Maryland state government's reluctance to build something of that sort, regardless of "business interests" in both states. Don't forget that Governor Hogan is term-limited next year. One reason so many groups are fighting to delay the expansion of I-270 and the Beltway is their assumption–which is historically a reasonable one in Maryland–that the next governor will come from the other major political party and will change course if the highway projects are not already substantially under construction.

That's assuming environmental laws would even permit an Outer Beltway, which is something I haven't tried to examine. Consider that if the existing Capital Beltway had not been built when it was and were instead a proposed highway today, it could not have been built along its current route due to federal environmental laws. The impact to Cameron Run would prevent the routing between roughly Van Dorn Street and the current site of the Wilson Bridge. Even if some existing roads were to be incorporated into a new Outer Beltway project (let's assume an upgraded Fairfax County Parkway were one such, since it represents a good chunk of what had once been proposed as an Outer Beltway, and let's assume the Intercounty Connector in Maryland is another), you still run into environmental issues in multiple places–to name but two, the southern crossing of the Potomac (I don't know where you propose to put that, but I'm assuming you'd extend the southern end of the Fairfax County Parkway across the river into Charles County) and the area east of the Intercounty Connector.

Even in Fairfax County, I really don't see much appetite for an Outer Beltway. It may be that people are realists and don't bother to discuss it because they know there is next to no chance of it ever being built, but in general, any time you hear people talk about another Potomac River crossing it's limited to the idea of a western crossing between the Beltway and Point of Rocks (the concept once called the "Techway"). Maryland authorities intensely dislike that idea in part because they're concerned that it would promote Virginia's economy at the expense of Maryland's in various ways, including (but not necessarily limited to) to the extent it encourages Montgomery County and Frederick-area residents to use Dulles Airport instead of BWI and to the extent it makes it easier for them to go spend money at Virginia locations like Tysons I and II, Dulles Town Center, or Reston Town Center instead of Maryland's.

The proverbial bottom line is that any discussion of a new Outer Beltway is really best-suited for the Fictional Highways subforum.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

kernals12

Quote from: 1995hoo on November 03, 2021, 11:11:45 AM
I think you seriously underestimate the Maryland state government's reluctance to build something of that sort, regardless of "business interests" in both states. Don't forget that Governor Hogan is term-limited next year. One reason so many groups are fighting to delay the expansion of I-270 and the Beltway is their assumption–which is historically a reasonable one in Maryland–that the next governor will come from the other major political party and will change course if the highway projects are not already substantially under construction.

That's assuming environmental laws would even permit an Outer Beltway, which is something I haven't tried to examine. Consider that if the existing Capital Beltway had not been built when it was and were instead a proposed highway today, it could not have been built along its current route due to federal environmental laws. The impact to Cameron Run would prevent the routing between roughly Van Dorn Street and the current site of the Wilson Bridge. Even if some existing roads were to be incorporated into a new Outer Beltway project (let's assume an upgraded Fairfax County Parkway were one such, since it represents a good chunk of what had once been proposed as an Outer Beltway, and let's assume the Intercounty Connector in Maryland is another), you still run into environmental issues in multiple places–to name but two, the southern crossing of the Potomac (I don't know where you propose to put that, but I'm assuming you'd extend the southern end of the Fairfax County Parkway across the river into Charles County) and the area east of the Intercounty Connector.

Even in Fairfax County, I really don't see much appetite for an Outer Beltway. It may be that people are realists and don't bother to discuss it because they know there is next to no chance of it ever being built, but in general, any time you hear people talk about another Potomac River crossing it's limited to the idea of a western crossing between the Beltway and Point of Rocks (the concept once called the "Techway"). Maryland authorities intensely dislike that idea in part because they're concerned that it would promote Virginia's economy at the expense of Maryland's in various ways, including (but not necessarily limited to) to the extent it encourages Montgomery County and Frederick-area residents to use Dulles Airport instead of BWI and to the extent it makes it easier for them to go spend money at Virginia locations like Tysons I and II, Dulles Town Center, or Reston Town Center instead of Maryland's.

The proverbial bottom line is that any discussion of a new Outer Beltway is really best-suited for the Fictional Highways subforum.

I've read that Maryland's opposition to a new Potomac Crossing is because they worry it will benefit Dulles at the expense of BWI. A full Outer Beltway would make BWI much more accessible, so it would balance out.

I'm also assuming that highway construction will become much less expensive due to technology like concrete thar doesn't need steel rebar. That would mean you could build viaducts in environmentally sensitive areas to minimize damage.

kernals12

Let's look at the Beltway Toll Lanes through an Equity Lens:
The downsides of the lanes in terms of noise and pollution will accrue in a handful of wealthy majority white zip codes. The benefits will accrue heavily in majority BIPOC communities in the Eastern half of the DC Area who will have enhanced access to NoVa's strong job market. It's clear that opponents of this project are upholding white supremacy and marginalizing black and latinx voices.

Am I doing this right?
:bigass:



odditude

Quote from: kernals12 on November 03, 2021, 12:51:14 PM
I've read that Maryland's opposition to a new Potomac Crossing is because they worry it will benefit Dulles at the expense of BWI. A full Outer Beltway would make BWI much more accessible, so it would balance out.
the primary driver here is Maryland residents in Montgomery County. a new crossing of the Potomac west of the Beltway would only make it easier for them to get to IAD.

Quote from: kernals12I'm also assuming that highway construction will become much less expensive due to technology like concrete thar doesn't need steel rebar. That would mean you could build viaducts in environmentally sensitive areas to minimize damage.
cost reduction != reduction in environmental damage.

Quote from: kernals12Let's look at the Beltway Toll Lanes through an Equity Lens:
[...]
Am I doing this right?
no.

Alps

Quote from: kernals12 on November 03, 2021, 06:46:14 PM
Let's look at the Beltway Toll Lanes through an Equity Lens:
The downsides of the lanes in terms of noise and pollution will accrue in a handful of wealthy majority white zip codes. The benefits will accrue heavily in majority BIPOC communities in the Eastern half of the DC Area who will have enhanced access to NoVa's strong job market. It's clear that opponents of this project are upholding white supremacy and marginalizing black and latinx voices.

Am I doing this right?
:bigass:



No, and stop.

jmacswimmer

"Now, what if da Bearss were to enter the Indianapolis 5-hunnert?"
"How would they compete?"
"Let's say they rode together in a big buss."
"Is Ditka driving?"
"Of course!"
"Then I like da Bear buss."
"DA BEARSSS BUSSSS"

MASTERNC

Wonder if they will raise the speed limit north of the Tydings bridge from 55 to 65 now that the toll plaza has been bypassed

TheOneKEA

Quote from: MASTERNC on November 16, 2021, 12:21:51 PM
Wonder if they will raise the speed limit north of the Tydings bridge from 55 to 65 now that the toll plaza has been bypassed

I wonder if a northbound weigh station will be built on the former outside lanes of the plaza.

sprjus4

Quote from: MASTERNC on November 16, 2021, 12:21:51 PM
Wonder if they will raise the speed limit north of the Tydings bridge from 55 to 65 now that the toll plaza has been bypassed
IMO, I-95 from north of Baltimore to the Delaware line needs to go up from 65 mph to 70 mph. Not sure why they didn't raise it back in 2015.

vdeane

Quote from: sprjus4 on November 16, 2021, 07:59:56 PM
Quote from: MASTERNC on November 16, 2021, 12:21:51 PM
Wonder if they will raise the speed limit north of the Tydings bridge from 55 to 65 now that the toll plaza has been bypassed
IMO, I-95 from north of Baltimore to the Delaware line needs to go up from 65 mph to 70 mph. Not sure why they didn't raise it back in 2015.
I believe Maryland got cold feet with the prospect of making more 70 mph zones after some crashes on I-70.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

epzik8

Quote from: sprjus4 on November 16, 2021, 07:59:56 PM
Quote from: MASTERNC on November 16, 2021, 12:21:51 PM
Wonder if they will raise the speed limit north of the Tydings bridge from 55 to 65 now that the toll plaza has been bypassed
IMO, I-95 from north of Baltimore to the Delaware line needs to go up from 65 mph to 70 mph. Not sure why they didn't raise it back in 2015.
I-95 from MD 24 to MD 279 and I-83 from Shawan Road to PA 214 could logically be 70.
From the land of red, white, yellow and black.
____________________________

My clinched highways: http://tm.teresco.org/user/?u=epzik8
My clinched counties: http://mob-rule.com/user-gifs/USA/epzik8.gif

kernals12

WMATA has announced that service cuts will last at least through the end of the year. I'm sure that's fresh in the minds of the people submitting comments on the 495/270 toll lanes.

epzik8

https://www.roads.maryland.gov/OPPEN/2019%20Baltimore%20City.pdf
Second page. I-70 has just over a tenth of a mile in Baltimore city. Debate over.
From the land of red, white, yellow and black.
____________________________

My clinched highways: http://tm.teresco.org/user/?u=epzik8
My clinched counties: http://mob-rule.com/user-gifs/USA/epzik8.gif

sprjus4

Quote from: epzik8 on November 23, 2021, 07:32:47 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on November 16, 2021, 07:59:56 PM
Quote from: MASTERNC on November 16, 2021, 12:21:51 PM
Wonder if they will raise the speed limit north of the Tydings bridge from 55 to 65 now that the toll plaza has been bypassed
IMO, I-95 from north of Baltimore to the Delaware line needs to go up from 65 mph to 70 mph. Not sure why they didn't raise it back in 2015.
I-95 from MD 24 to MD 279 and I-83 from Shawan Road to PA 214 could logically be 70.
Agreed, and with I-83 too. Not sure why both Maryland and Pennsylvania are against raising I-83. Last time I drove it, traffic was moving at least 75-80+ mph the whole way, and it felt comfortable for the most part. 70 mph would not be unreasonable.



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