Iowa says US-20 is too dangerous in Illinois

[edwaleni]

If not by road, then by rail?

Per Trains:

Consulting firm chosen for Chicago-Dubuque rail feasibility study:

Chicago-based engineering firm Quandel Consultants has been selected to conduct a feasibility study for Chicago-Dubuque, Iowa, rail passenger service. The Dubuque Telegraph Herald reports the firm is negotiating a contract with the Dubuque Metropolitan Area Transportation Study committee for the 13-month project to evaluate routes, ridership, stations, infrastructure, service speeds and frequencies, costs, and revenue potential for the proposed service. Resumption of service to Dubuque, which ended in 1981, is dependent on the current efforts to revive Chicago-Rockford service [see "Digest: Effort to restart Chicago-Rockford passenger service takes step forward,"  Trains News Wire, Sept. 25, 2020].

Story also in Dubuque newspapers:

https://www.telegraphherald.com/news/tri-state/article_f238fe44-9fae-57f0-8220-77fda7fb8c00.html

Not many people are aware that perennially broke Illinois is funding to start a Amtrak/Metra style service from Chicago to Rockford.

[hotdogPi]

If Wisconsin isn't broke (I don't know if it is or not), Wisconsin can pay fully for Portage (existing Amtrak)-Madison-Janesville-Beloit-Harvard (end of current commuter rail) with a spur to Rockford. It will help both states, so it might be worthwhile even if Wisconsin pays for it all. Of course, this goes nowhere near Dubuque.

[triplemultiplex]

If Wisconsin isn't broke (I don't know if it is or not), Wisconsin can pay fully for Portage (existing Amtrak)-Madison-Janesville-Beloit-Harvard (end of current commuter rail) with a spur to Rockford. It will help both states, so it might be worthwhile even if Wisconsin pays for it all. Of course, this goes nowhere near Dubuque.

Wasn't there some kind of demonstration Amtrak service from Janesville-Rockford-Chicago in the 90's?  Like they tested it out to see if it was popular enough to get implement?  (Which it was not, as evidenced by the lack of such service today.)

[kphoger]

If Wisconsin isn't broke (I don't know if it is or not), Wisconsin can pay fully for Portage (existing Amtrak)-Madison-Janesville-Beloit-Harvard (end of current commuter rail) with a spur to Rockford. It will help both states, so it might be worthwhile even if Wisconsin pays for it all. Of course, this goes nowhere near Dubuque.

Wasn't there some kind of demonstration Amtrak service from Janesville-Rockford-Chicago in the 90's?  Like they tested it out to see if it was popular enough to get implement?  (Which it was not, as evidenced by the lack of such service today.)

Lake Country Limited
04-APR-2000 – 23-SEP-2001

[hotdogPi]

Apparently they aren't entirely clear which state Janesville is in? (Look at the disclaimer on the bottom.)

[Revive 755]

^ Where was the stop in Lake Geneva?  Closest rail lines I see today are in Walworth or New Munster.

[kphoger]

^ Where was the stop in Lake Geneva?  Closest rail lines I see today are in Walworth or New Munster.

here

[edwaleni]

^ Where was the stop in Lake Geneva?  Closest rail lines I see today are in Walworth or New Munster.

here

CNW actually had 2 stations for Lake Geneva originally. In the town proper on the east end and then another after going around Lake Como where it ended at the west reach of the actual Lake Geneva. It was cut back to Ringwood.

As for Dubuque, they will calculate what a fare will be (probably around $100 each way to Chicago) and it will stop the analysis in its tracks. No knock on Dubuque, but no one will spend $200 per person for a round trip when the gas alone will only cost $40 round trip for a family of 4.

If they get enough daily traffic in and out of Rockford, perhaps it can subsidize the Dubuque/Galena service on weekends when most people would consider the trip.

But for me the cost of the subsidy over 25 years would get pretty darn close, if not exceed, the cost of simply building the darn highway. And trucks can't use Amtrak.

[JREwing78]

Wasn't there some kind of demonstration Amtrak service from Janesville-Rockford-Chicago in the 90's?  Like they tested it out to see if it was popular enough to get implement?  (Which it was not, as evidenced by the lack of such service today.)

Judging by the business that Van Galder bus lines got (pre-COVID) on its Madison -> Chicago service (multiple trips per day stopping in Janesville, Beloit, and Rockford en-route to O'Hare and downtown Chicago), there's a solid argument that the ridership could be there IF the folks implementing it had their act together.

Of course, both Illinois and Wisconsin dumped multiple billions of dollars into I-90 between Madison and Chicago in the last 15 years, so the highway congestion that might have made the bus trip unreliable before is less of a problem now.

[JREwing78]

Since I'm off on this side-tangent, note that there's a Metra line that goes to Harvard, IL. That same rail line reaches Janesville, and extends into downtown Madison.

Extending the Metra line to Janesville would be very straightforward - the rail line is there and shouldn't take much (if any) effort to accommodate passenger rail. From Janesville, it can head into Madison via Evansville and Oregon (which would require the track to be rebuilt or have heavy maintenance work performed), or through Milton, Edgerton, and Stoughton (which would run more slowly due to sharp curves and such).

The reasons passenger rail to Madison hasn't happened yet are more political than because there's not a viable option to make it happen.

[SEWIGuy]

But the Metra Northwest line to Harvard doesn't go to O'Hare - it goes downtown.  So the Van Galder ridership numbers, versus what a Metra extension would carry, isn't really a great comparison because they are serving customers with different goals in mind.

Metra is commuter rail.  By the time it gets to Harvard, it is pretty sparse.  Van Galder is for people flying out of Chicago who don't want to park there.

[I-39]

Metra can barely keep up with what it has. It's rolling stock is incredibly dated and expansions that are more needed than this (i.e, Plano, Dekalb, etc) are years off from happening, if ever. Plus, the whole board is corrupt.

How many times do we have to go through this charade before people realize passenger rail service is not the way to go?

[SEWIGuy]

Metra can barely keep up with what it has. It's rolling stock is incredibly dated and expansions that are more needed than this (i.e, Plano, Dekalb, etc) are years off from happening, if ever. Plus, the whole board is corrupt.

How many times do we have to go through this charade before people realize passenger rail service is not the way to go?

Rail isn't bad as a commuter mode of transportation.  And people from Janesville aren't commuting downtown.

[skluth]

Metra can barely keep up with what it has. It's rolling stock is incredibly dated and expansions that are more needed than this (i.e, Plano, Dekalb, etc) are years off from happening, if ever. Plus, the whole board is corrupt.

How many times do we have to go through this charade before people realize passenger rail service is not the way to go?

Passenger rail can be quite good. I've traveled in trains over much of Western Europe. Unfortunately, there are several reasons it only works in a few locations in the US from lack of political will to corrupt boards.

[ET21]

How many times do we have to go through this charade before people realize passenger rail service is not the way to go?

I'll be starting rail commuting once the office reopens as a Metra station is right behind my new residence.

[3467]

The office is reopening?
I think that's going to be the big question on transportation planning .
How many go back and how often.
About half the remaining labor force can remote work.
There  is a website that tracks current office vacancy. It's still like 70 percent. Higher in Chicago.

[captkirk_4]

Metra can barely keep up with what it has. It's rolling stock is incredibly dated and expansions that are more needed than this (i.e, Plano, Dekalb, etc) are years off from happening, if ever. Plus, the whole board is corrupt.

How many times do we have to go through this charade before people realize passenger rail service is not the way to go?

What good is a train to Galena when YOU DON'T HAVE USE OF YOUR CAR WHEN YOU GET THERE AND CAN'T REALLY DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN WALK AROUND A SMALL AREA NEAR THE STATION!!! If I lived in the Chicago Suburbs and wanted to spend Saturday Afternoon in the Driftless Area Hills around Galena and Dubuque why on earth would I want to spend two hours going downtown, waiting for a train, then probably taking longer to get out there than if I just got in the car and drove? What, because of a two lane section between Freeport and Galena? Wow, I'll really have a fun time not being able to get in my car and drive around to the various attractions once I get there or drive to any restaurants for a nice lunch? Not having a car absolutely sucks, I even only consider flying if it is the west coast with a 6 day drive round trip. I absolutely hate going to a relative's house and then being stranded without my car. Nope, there is no "demand" for "high speed rail" between Chicago and Saint Louis, etc. like they pitch using the lying statistics from air travel that completely ignores the fact those people hoping on planes from Saint Louis to Chicago are transferring to other flights at O'hare to places like Hawaii and London. Nobody wants to start their big Hawaiian Vacation by taking Amtrack to Chicago, then struggling on the subway to O'hare when they can catch a jet at Lambert straight to the terminal already behind all the security checks. These are the same hipster crackpots who'd also have us commuting around in 10 degree snowstorms on bicycles. They just hate cars, thats all.

[ET21]

The office is reopening?
I think that's going to be the big question on transportation planning .
How many go back and how often.
About half the remaining labor force can remote work.
There  is a website that tracks current office vacancy. It's still like 70 percent. Higher in Chicago.

That will be the big question, working remote took massive leaps due to Covid last year. Least for me I'll def need to be going into the office least 3 of the 5 days to get certain things done once a somewhat "all clear" is given to go back, plus I started a day before the IL shutdown so I've yet to actually see the full office or the amenities it has.

But even as I think about it, I've been able to do my job for the most part at home. Gonna be interesting to see how that develops over the course of the year.

[I-39]

Passenger rail can be quite good. I've traveled in trains over much of Western Europe. Unfortunately, there are several reasons it only works in a few locations in the US from lack of political will to corrupt boards.

What good is a train to Galena when YOU DON'T HAVE USE OF YOUR CAR WHEN YOU GET THERE AND CAN'T REALLY DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN WALK AROUND A SMALL AREA NEAR THE STATION!!! If I lived in the Chicago Suburbs and wanted to spend Saturday Afternoon in the Driftless Area Hills around Galena and Dubuque why on earth would I want to spend two hours going downtown, waiting for a train, then probably taking longer to get out there than if I just got in the car and drove? What, because of a two lane section between Freeport and Galena? Wow, I'll really have a fun time not being able to get in my car and drive around to the various attractions once I get there or drive to any restaurants for a nice lunch? Not having a car absolutely sucks, I even only consider flying if it is the west coast with a 6 day drive round trip. I absolutely hate going to a relative's house and then being stranded without my car. Nope, there is no "demand" for "high speed rail" between Chicago and Saint Louis, etc. like they pitch using the lying statistics from air travel that completely ignores the fact those people hoping on planes from Saint Louis to Chicago are transferring to other flights at O'hare to places like Hawaii and London. Nobody wants to start their big Hawaiian Vacation by taking Amtrack to Chicago, then struggling on the subway to O'hare when they can catch a jet at Lambert straight to the terminal already behind all the security checks. These are the same hipster crackpots who'd also have us commuting around in 10 degree snowstorms on bicycles. They just hate cars, thats all.

I'm not opposed to trains, they are great in commuter environments (i.e, Metra) but not for long distance travel. What I was referring to above is these useless long distance (Amtrak) studies that go nowhere, for the reasons captkirk_4 stated. This train idea to Dubuque is incredibly stupid and it's just time to freaking build a four lane expressway along US 20 between Freeport and Galena already. It's a complete joke it hasn't happened.

[3467]

Yes ET21. It seems to have saved a lot of companies money.
Also it looks like downtown is just empty.
That creepy abandoned feel might hit big centers and the remaining offices may be more scattered. We really need a thread. Regional might be good because it may vary a lot.

[captkirk_4]

Passenger rail can be quite good. I've traveled in trains over much of Western Europe. Unfortunately, there are several reasons it only works in a few locations in the US from lack of political will to corrupt boards.

What good is a train to Galena when YOU DON'T HAVE USE OF YOUR CAR WHEN YOU GET THERE AND CAN'T REALLY DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN WALK AROUND A SMALL AREA NEAR THE STATION!!! If I lived in the Chicago Suburbs and wanted to spend Saturday Afternoon in the Driftless Area Hills around Galena and Dubuque why on earth would I want to spend two hours going downtown, waiting for a train, then probably taking longer to get out there than if I just got in the car and drove? What, because of a two lane section between Freeport and Galena? Wow, I'll really have a fun time not being able to get in my car and drive around to the various attractions once I get there or drive to any restaurants for a nice lunch? Not having a car absolutely sucks, I even only consider flying if it is the west coast with a 6 day drive round trip. I absolutely hate going to a relative's house and then being stranded without my car. Nope, there is no "demand" for "high speed rail" between Chicago and Saint Louis, etc. like they pitch using the lying statistics from air travel that completely ignores the fact those people hoping on planes from Saint Louis to Chicago are transferring to other flights at O'hare to places like Hawaii and London. Nobody wants to start their big Hawaiian Vacation by taking Amtrack to Chicago, then struggling on the subway to O'hare when they can catch a jet at Lambert straight to the terminal already behind all the security checks. These are the same hipster crackpots who'd also have us commuting around in 10 degree snowstorms on bicycles. They just hate cars, thats all.

I'm not opposed to trains, they are great in commuter environments (i.e, Metra) but not for long distance travel. What I was referring to above is these useless long distance (Amtrak) studies that go nowhere, for the reasons captkirk_4 stated. This train idea to Dubuque is incredibly stupid and it's just time to freaking build a four lane expressway along US 20 between Freeport and Galena already. It's a complete joke it hasn't happened.

I actually watched a guys sleeper Amtrack trip from Chicago to Los Angeles on Youtube and thought it looked fun, as an adventure in itself. But it is more expensive than air travel, and I wouldn't really enjoy it until the covid paranoia is gone and I can relax with a good meal in the restaurant car, go to the view car, etc. However if I really needed to get to LA I'd take the airlines. My friend flies between LA and Detroit on Spirit and it's under 200 bucks. Amtrack is 900 one way in a "roomette" the smaller sleeper option, the full bedroom is 1900.

[kphoger]

I've only had an Amtrak compartment on two occasions.

The first occasion is when I traveled with my one- or two-year-old daughter from Chicago to Saint Louis, along with her two godparents.  Coach was sold out on the way down, so I had to book a couple of two-person compartments.  When we boarded the train, the conductor told us one of the compartments was under renovation, and so he put my daughter and me up in a conductor's cabin instead.  Not wanting to be separated from my friends for the trip, the I had all four of us in the single two-person compartment and left the conductor's cabin vacant.  Cramped, but not bad for a bunch of college-aged people.

The second occasion was when my dad and I went from Chicago to Charlottesville (VA) and shared a sleeper on the way out there.  We traveled coach on the way back.  It was nice to have beds on the way out, but I kept waking up at every station stop and sometimes in between.

Coach is roomy enough on long-distance Amtrak trains that it's fairly easy to sleep even in coach–even if you can't stretch out all the way.  When my daughter was really little, though, the floor in between coach seats on the California Zephyr actually ended up being her bed more often than not.

[skluth]

Passenger rail can be quite good. I've traveled in trains over much of Western Europe. Unfortunately, there are several reasons it only works in a few locations in the US from lack of political will to corrupt boards.

What good is a train to Galena when YOU DON'T HAVE USE OF YOUR CAR WHEN YOU GET THERE AND CAN'T REALLY DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN WALK AROUND A SMALL AREA NEAR THE STATION!!! If I lived in the Chicago Suburbs and wanted to spend Saturday Afternoon in the Driftless Area Hills around Galena and Dubuque why on earth would I want to spend two hours going downtown, waiting for a train, then probably taking longer to get out there than if I just got in the car and drove? What, because of a two lane section between Freeport and Galena? Wow, I'll really have a fun time not being able to get in my car and drive around to the various attractions once I get there or drive to any restaurants for a nice lunch? Not having a car absolutely sucks, I even only consider flying if it is the west coast with a 6 day drive round trip. I absolutely hate going to a relative's house and then being stranded without my car. Nope, there is no "demand" for "high speed rail" between Chicago and Saint Louis, etc. like they pitch using the lying statistics from air travel that completely ignores the fact those people hoping on planes from Saint Louis to Chicago are transferring to other flights at O'hare to places like Hawaii and London. Nobody wants to start their big Hawaiian Vacation by taking Amtrack to Chicago, then struggling on the subway to O'hare when they can catch a jet at Lambert straight to the terminal already behind all the security checks. These are the same hipster crackpots who'd also have us commuting around in 10 degree snowstorms on bicycles. They just hate cars, thats all.

I'm not opposed to trains, they are great in commuter environments (i.e, Metra) but not for long distance travel. What I was referring to above is these useless long distance (Amtrak) studies that go nowhere, for the reasons captkirk_4 stated. This train idea to Dubuque is incredibly stupid and it's just time to freaking build a four lane expressway along US 20 between Freeport and Galena already. It's a complete joke it hasn't happened.

I actually watched a guys sleeper Amtrack trip from Chicago to Los Angeles on Youtube and thought it looked fun, as an adventure in itself. But it is more expensive than air travel, and I wouldn't really enjoy it until the covid paranoia is gone and I can relax with a good meal in the restaurant car, go to the view car, etc. However if I really needed to get to LA I'd take the airlines. My friend flies between LA and Detroit on Spirit and it's under 200 bucks. Amtrack is 900 one way in a "roomette" the smaller sleeper option, the full bedroom is 1900.

Commuter rail works with the right conditions. Longer train travel is best for places where you otherwise take short plane hops. My most recent experience in Europe was Fall 2019. The first was just a mundane train trip through Portugal, but the second was on a high-speed rail from Madrid to Malaga. It's a 5 hour drive, but it's only three hours by train. There were 3-4 intermediate stops, but much more comfy and relaxed than a 1.5 hour flight plus two hour pre-arrival. The train was about 80% full. I showed up 30 minutes early, so it was about the same time as flying with less fear of delays.

I noticed several business types in coach. (I traveled first class because it was maybe €20 more (And about 20% more than coach. It was my first high-speed train so I wanted to really enjoy it. But I'd have still been far more comfy there than on a plane.) I could see similar trips being used for business in many US corridors. DC-NY-BOS is the most obvious as Acela has already demonstrated. SF-LA-SD-PHX, Portland-Vancouver BC, Milwaukee-Pitt, Florida, and Texas are all places which would benefit. Acela is also popular for leisure. I have friends that take it for trips between DC and NY (at least pre-Covid). I'd happily take a train from the Coachella Valley to LA for a day or weekend trip if I didn't have to worry about waiting two days if I missed mine; there were about 10 daily between Madrid and Malaga. High-speed rail could easily supplant short hop flights in a lot places and significantly reduce jet CO2 emissions (4% of CO2 pollution yearly), especially if linked to major airports like LAX and ORD. I don't see any rail replacing flying longer distances like between any of NY-CHI-ATL-TX-CAL.

None of these apply to Galena. Madison-Rockford-Chicago by train makes sense, even at standard speeds (80 mph or so). I know there are several daily trips between Milwaukee and Chicago. I took the train on weekends to Chicago when I lived in St Louis and was stationed for school at Chanute in Rantoul. (I always stayed downtown and the trains were mostly full.) But again, those corridors make sense. There's not enough in downtown Galena for most US travelers. It's not Vegas or Orlando, or a place between destinations like Palm Springs between LA and Phoenix. I agree a train to Galena is a waste of money and an expressway to Galena (and on to Dubuque) makes far more sense.

[rte66man]

Coach is roomy enough on long-distance Amtrak trains that it's fairly easy to sleep even in coach–even if you can't stretch out all the way.  When my daughter was really little, though, the floor in between coach seats on the California Zephyr actually ended up being her bed more often than not.

We had the same experience on the SW Chief from Newton, KS to Los Angeles.  My wife and I slept in our coach seats and our girls played and slept on the floor more than in their seats.

[3467]

IDOT  has posted a new Featured Project. Illinois 97 in Sangamon county. While I may go into its details in Southern Illinois Notes it is relevant to US 20.
It was first started as an EA and got a FONSI. That was 1997. But they had to review and update in 2017. They did keep corridor protection.
Like Rick Powell has said this would have to be done for US 20. I think the previous freeway focus and Purpose and need present a much bigger problem for this project.