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Author Topic: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans  (Read 31688 times)

Rothman

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Re: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2021, 11:20:08 AM »

I had a very pleasant trip to Canada in 2019.  Regarding rude Quebecois and despite the widespread ability to speak English, I do wonder if those Americans who experienced rudeness were themselves insensitive to the local culture.  As my father says, even just using a handful of words in a local language can generate a disproportionate amount of goodwill (even in Paris).  Looking forward to returning to Canada at the end of August if I can figure out the testing.

And I do find it repulsive that the U.S. has not developed an opening plan like Canada has, and yet Americans have been clamoring for Canada to open.  Bad form.

That said, I do think Canada blaming the U.S. for lack of vaccine access is more reflective of their shortsightedness in this matter and a blunder of a misread of American leadership.  I mean, in what universe would one have expected Trump to share?  Even then, "us first, you second" was bound to be a reality.  Combine that condition with the vaccine hesitancy based upon misinformation and lack of judgment amongst about 40% of our population and yes, you end up with a lack of flow to the outside world.  Any observer of the U.S. should have said, "Um, they're screwed down there, we need to look for other solutions than waiting for vaccines to come from that ongoing disaster."

I am also not sure how the embarrassment of January 6th pertains to how American tourists treat Canadians and vice versa.

And finally, for Americans to try to pass themselves as Canadians is highly foolish and it backfires.  In my wife's and my own travels, we've found people tend not to like being lied to on this manner and causes all sorts of offense and confusion once the truth inevitably comes out one way or another.  That said, I do wonder just how many American tourists try to pull this stunt.  I can't believe it is that many.  We're too patriotic. :D

*runs back to checking test appointments so he can get one 72 hours before entering Canada at the end of August*
« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 11:24:43 AM by Rothman »
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kalvado

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Re: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2021, 11:22:23 AM »

Speaking for myself I’ve personally never cared where people are from.  We have a lot of family on my Wife’s side that are Mexican Citizens, to me that is just a normal thing (which probably has a lot to do with how long I’ve lived in the Southwest).
You personally maybe. People in general... Often at least you have to be aware of origin. Just as an example sitting next to me - if Chinese guy sounds like he is gonna go into a scandal in a moment - don't worry, that is their normal intonation. There are many such nuances..  And as an extreme example -  I heard a fair share of horror stories of how US CBP singles out anyone looking remotely middle eastern on any border - including US-Canada border....   
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Re: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2021, 11:26:47 AM »

I had a very pleasant trip to Canada in 2019.  Regarding rude Quebecois and despite the widespread ability to speak English, I do wonder if those Americans who experienced rudeness were themselves insensitive to the local culture.  As my father says, even just using a handful of words in a local language can generate a disproportionate amount of goodwill (even in Paris).  Looking forward to returning to Canada at the end of August if I can figure out the testing.

And I do find it repulsive that the U.S. has not developed an opening plan like Canada has, and yet Americans have been clamoring for Canada to open.  Bad form.

That said, I do think Canada blaming the U.S. for lack of vaccine access is more reflective of their shortsightedness in this matter and a blunder of a misread of American leadership.  I mean, in what universe would one have expected Trump to share?  Even then, "us first, you second" was bound to be a reality.  Combine that condition with the vaccine hesitancy based upon misinformation and lack of judgment amongst about 40% of our population and yes, you end up with a lack of flow to the outside world.  Any observer of the U.S. should have said, "Um, they're screwed down there, we need to look for other solutions than waiting for vaccines to come from that ongoing disaster."

I am also not sure how the embarrassment of January 6th pertains to how American tourists treat Canadians and vice versa.

*runs back to checking test appointments so he can get one 72 hours before entering Canada at the end of August*
Quebec situation is largely a local issue. If you know any language other than English, try using that - your server may suddenly realize English is a good common ground...
As for sharing - it is always the same: THEY are unwilling to help because THEY don't share OUR  concerns - but why should WE help THEM when WE have OUR own concerns? Substitute any groups of people for WE and THEY, and it holds true most of the time.
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Scott5114

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Re: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2021, 11:31:30 AM »

Cool it on the politics, folks. We don't need to hear your opinions on the President(s) and Prime Minister.
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Re: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2021, 11:34:10 AM »

That said, I do think Canada blaming the U.S. for lack of vaccine access is more reflective of their shortsightedness in this matter and a blunder of a misread of American leadership.  I mean, in what universe would one have expected Trump to share?  Even then, "us first, you second" was bound to be a reality.  Combine that condition with the vaccine hesitancy based upon misinformation and lack of judgment amongst about 40% of our population and yes, you end up with a lack of flow to the outside world.  Any observer of the U.S. should have said, "Um, they're screwed down there, we need to look for other solutions than waiting for vaccines to come from that ongoing disaster."

Canada did prepare of that.  Canada pre-ordered the highest amount of vaccine doses per capita of any country in the world.  But I still think it was a dick move (even if not a surprising one).

I think it's worth mentioning that Canada, as a country, often compares itself to Australia.  They are pretty similar in many ways, including history, economy, and from both having vast amounts of uninhabited inhospitable lands.  (We have both mistreated the indigenous peoples of our respective countries similarly poorly for what it's worth too, to be honest).

But because Australia has been able to keep the virus at bay largely with strict border control measures, there has been somewhat of a desire to do that in Canada.  Obviously this isn't really a realistic approach in Canada given the fact that we have a large, typically fairly open, land border with another country.  But that's why, from a political standpoint, there has been some hesitancy to open the borders in Canada until the virus has been largely knocked down abroad.
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TXtoNJ

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Re: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2021, 01:13:38 PM »

^ Sure, there are many on this forum that do advocate for less border scrutiny than there currently is.  It's a complicated issue fraught with legitimate sovereignty issues.

But, following 9/11, it was fairly common to hear about how the terrorists entered the US from Canada because Canada has lax border security.  Which was obviously pretty frustrating to hear as a Canadian.  No countries border security is perfect, neither the US's or Canada's, but it was pretty annoying to hear that somehow it was Canada's fault that the towers were knocked down.  (Even if it was just said as an implication).

Canada's shit smells bad too.  I am not (and was not) trying to imply that it doesn't.  Probably the most defining thing about the culture of Canada (certainly English Canadian culture at least) is the fact that Canadians aren't Americans.  I've always found to be a weak spot of Canada's cultural identity.

For as much as I am not a Trump supporter, he should be championed for Operation Warp Speed -- it was his greatest accomplishment, following a fairly bumbled early response to the pandemic.  To his credit though, many (most?) world leaders mishandled the early days and months of the pandemic.

The border closure has impacted those on both sides of the border.  There are many Canadian snowbirds who own property in the south, some who chose not to go down this winter, while others who chose to go down, had to either stay in the US, or face rather onerous quarantine restrictions upon their return.

The toughest thing for most Americans to do is consider why someone, especially English-speaking, would not want to be American. It's a complete cultural blind spot.
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2021, 01:14:40 PM »

I've been to Canada 4 times and never once experienced any issue because I'm American. And Canada has beaten us in vaccination rate so they must be doing something right.
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Re: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2021, 01:29:37 PM »

I've been to Canada 4 times and never once experienced any issue because I'm American. And Canada has beaten us in vaccination rate so they must be doing something right.

We have a much more combative culture in the US than Canada does. If you committed a faux pas, you'd never hear about it, but they'd be sure to talk about it behind your back.
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Re: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2021, 01:40:33 PM »

Weird to see such Canadian backlash.  I've been to Canada somewhere on the order of 10 times and always had a wonderful time with super nice people, from Vancouver to Saskatoon to Toronto to Quebec City (and I don't speak much more than absolutely basic French).  I, personally, can't wait to go back.  I had a trip planned once to the Atlantic provinces that I had to cancel.  Maybe it's time to burn some miles and go back out that way.

Chris

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Re: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2021, 01:56:31 PM »

Quote
Montreal is completely the opposite of Australia---there seems to be a lot of rude people in Montreal. Several times when I stopped to ask for directions, the French Canadians just looked at me funny and walked off. I never did like going into Canada, period. Not many of the boys did. It was always such a hassle at customs. We entered other countries without a problem, but getting into Canada could be brutal. They'd take forever with us; it was torture. Any time we worked there, we'd get paid in Canadian dollars, so when the exchange rate was bad, we lost money like crazy. You'd better believe that seeing Canada on the schedule was a real buzzkill.

Typical.  Americans love to bash Canada for having soft borders, but then complain when the border turns out actually not to be porous.

Americans can enter Canada a full month before anyone else in the world can, but obviously Canadians only have an arrogant attitude to the US.

And of course, let's not forget that Canada has made its border opening announcement prior to any announcement from the US side.  So Canada has opened it's border (or at least announced it's intention to open the border) to Americans before American's have opened its border to Canadians.

And then of course there are issues like free trade.  One of the hallmarks of the previous governments election platform was renegotiating NAFTA.  Of course, during that renegotiated deal, the US unilaterally decided to impose trade tariffs on goods under the ridiculous guise of "national security".  What a quintessentially American thought -- you are only pro-free trade when it suits you.  If someone else gets to make a buck, then fuck'em.

And then there's the point that the US by presidential order, decreed that no vaccines could be exported to Canada or other countries.  Again, there's this thing called free-trade.  So, the reason that Canada (and other countries) don't have the same level of domestic vaccine production because the economies of Canada (and other countries) have been so integrated with that of America.  That was a dick move on behalf of the Americans.  And now of course, despite the fact that the US has one of the best vaccine production rates in the world, nearly 50% of America's population is literally to stubborn to get vaccinated.

And let's not ignore the mess that occurred on January 6.  Watching a countries Capitol Building be overrun by a bunch of clueless right wing thugs used to be the type of thing reserved for (to paraphrase the previous administrations parlance) shithole countries.

I'm looking forward to the border opening again.  I'm eager to visit some cities that I haven't been to in a couple of years, but to all of the American's out there, my friends, don't pretend you haven't had some rather fouling smelling fecal matter drifting north over the past few years.  It's ignorant and insulting.

I don’t dispute the issues you state above on the U.S. side of things, there is certainly a lot of bad.  All the same, the assumption that most of us supported things like what (or act a certain way) you describe above is the generalization I’m referring to.  I rather just go somewhere else where nobody cares where I’m from or assumes something about me because of it.
You mean you are signing up for Antarctic expedition?? That is COOL!

On a different note, way before covid, there was a trend of americans stocking on maple leaf merchandise before european trips to disguise their origin... Why would that be?

I'll stand in the middle on this one.  I visited Europe many many times and not once did I try to hide my identity as an American by posing as a Canadian.  I personally have been to Toronto and Montreal a few times and never have I seen this supposed poor attitude that Canadians have, and have only met very nice people in Montreal.  Maybe some of this comes from me being a Texan so I seem like an anomaly to Europeans and Canadians  :-D.  I find the U.S./Canadian border to be a strict one, going both ways.  Nobody I have seen in Canada was wearing a lumberjack shirt, a hat with earflaps even in the summer, overtly saying "Eh" or apologizing for someone running into them. 

I understand where some Americans feel French Canadians (and to some extent English Canadians) have an entitled attitude.  I have seen Canadians basically say they are better because they were not Americans.  I have seen Americans also say the inverse. 

My point: generalizations are exactly that.  They are things that are seen some, that some may think seem above average, but are blown out of proportions for comedic effect.  Here is the deal, Canadians crack Americans for being fat, dumb and having no standard health care and Americans bash Canadians for being soft and myopian of their own selves.  Neither is a blanket statement and neither need to be taken seriously because they just jokes.  I laugh at what Americans say about Canadians but I laugh even harder about what Canadians say about Americans.  Both countries crap stinks.  There are good ones and bad ones in both places.  The best thing about comedy is you have to be able to laugh at yourself before you laugh at everyone else.  I get that Americans can rub a lot of the world raw, and I roll with that.

I know us Americans can see things through the comfort of their couch and not understand why anyone would hate us, but I say this.  I was in Paris about 13 years ago around the Eiffel Tower.  There was a tour bus full of very rich high school/college age American girls that pulled up to the curb to let the girls out and take pictures.  They all pilled out talking loudly to each other about how lame they think the stuff in France is, how stupid it is that all the fast food joints and Starbucks aren't all over the place like they are wherever they live, how dumb they think the people are, completely disrespecting a street merchant, talking loudly to people who don't speak English thinking yelling at them will make them understand it better, littering, being overtly rude and all around having an extremely entitled attitude to the whole thing and personally making me feel like they took a crap all over Paris.  I was instantly embarrassed to be an American and I understood why the world has a grim view of us.  I also realized that view is not directed at me personally, but it doesn't keep them from having a sore view even though I was over there trying to fit in with the culture and language.  That's just the way it goes sometime; guilt by association. 
« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 01:59:56 PM by ethanhopkin14 »
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans
« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2021, 02:06:21 PM »

I've been to Canada 4 times and never once experienced any issue because I'm American. And Canada has beaten us in vaccination rate so they must be doing something right.

If you consider keeping most things shut down until nearly the entire country has been vaccinated,, then they're doing it right.

But if you live there, work there, and want to go anywhere, you're pretty much stuck inside until nearly everyone gets the vaccine. If what the did in Canada was done here in the US, nearly two-thirds of the states in this country still would be under significant restrictions and closures.
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ethanhopkin14

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Re: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2021, 02:12:18 PM »

^ Sure, there are many on this forum that do advocate for less border scrutiny than there currently is.  It's a complicated issue fraught with legitimate sovereignty issues.

But, following 9/11, it was fairly common to hear about how the terrorists entered the US from Canada because Canada has lax border security.  Which was obviously pretty frustrating to hear as a Canadian.  No countries border security is perfect, neither the US's or Canada's, but it was pretty annoying to hear that somehow it was Canada's fault that the towers were knocked down.  (Even if it was just said as an implication).

Canada's shit smells bad too.  I am not (and was not) trying to imply that it doesn't.  Probably the most defining thing about the culture of Canada (certainly English Canadian culture at least) is the fact that Canadians aren't Americans.  I've always found to be a weak spot of Canada's cultural identity.

For as much as I am not a Trump supporter, he should be championed for Operation Warp Speed -- it was his greatest accomplishment, following a fairly bumbled early response to the pandemic.  To his credit though, many (most?) world leaders mishandled the early days and months of the pandemic.

The border closure has impacted those on both sides of the border.  There are many Canadian snowbirds who own property in the south, some who chose not to go down this winter, while others who chose to go down, had to either stay in the US, or face rather onerous quarantine restrictions upon their return.

The toughest thing for most Americans to do is consider why someone, especially English-speaking, would not want to be American. It's a complete cultural blind spot.

It's true and I find it to be very arrogant on the part of Americans to be so narrow minded. 
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2021, 02:39:23 PM »

I've been to Canada 4 times and never once experienced any issue because I'm American. And Canada has beaten us in vaccination rate so they must be doing something right.

If you consider keeping most things shut down until nearly the entire country has been vaccinated,, then they're doing it right.

But if you live there, work there, and want to go anywhere, you're pretty much stuck inside until nearly everyone gets the vaccine. If what the did in Canada was done here in the US, nearly two-thirds of the states in this country still would be under significant restrictions and closures.
Their ability to convince most people to get the vaccine (more than America) was very good. Now their lockdowns into the summer I disagree with. We did some things better, they did other things better.
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Re: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2021, 03:29:54 PM »

The Mexican border has been open for quite a while and you don't have to jump though a bunch of hoops to go either.

I'm not sure the US–Mexican ever actually closed.  There was plenty of talk and rumors, but I don't think anything actually changed on the ground.
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Re: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2021, 03:32:07 PM »

The Mexican border has been open for quite a while and you don't have to jump though a bunch of hoops to go either.

I'm not sure the US–Mexican ever actually closed.  There was plenty of talk and rumors, but I don't think anything actually changed on the ground.

It never did.
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Re: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2021, 03:34:09 PM »


Further, IMHO, French Canadians hate English Canadians, and Americans can get mistaken for an English Canadian and get treated in the same shabby manner.  In my experience, when Quebeckers know you are an American, their attitude changes totally.

Yeah, Quebecers usually will treat English speaking American's far more favourably than English speaking Canadians.

Similarly, people in France are more likely to be friendly to you if you're American than if you're British.  At least, that used to be true.
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Re: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans
« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2021, 03:45:36 PM »



The Mexican border has been open for quite a while and you don't have to jump though a bunch of hoops to go either.

I'm not sure the US–Mexican ever actually closed.  There was plenty of talk and rumors, but I don't think anything actually changed on the ground.

It never did.

The US/Mexico border has been closed to non-essential travelers for about as long as the US/Canada border has been shut:

https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/investigations/beyond-the-border/no-official-decision-on-us-mexico-border-reopening-as-latest-extension-expires-wednesday-san-ysidro-business/509-c81145b7-fca6-49d6-9fe0-e5a028719dd5

You may be forgetting that I have my finger on border issues outside this forum.  I haven't heard anything on expat forums about people actually being turned away at the border.  Yes, the border was supposedly "closed" in March 2020 (the same month I most recently crossed the border) and extended every month since then, but that's only theoretically—at least for US citizens.

The US lets US citizens back in from Mexico.
Mexico isn't stopping US citizens from entering Mexico.

Things are probably different for Mexican citizens and those of other countries crossing that border, but for US citizens nothing has really changed IRL.

My best friends (US citizens with no Mexican visa) are planning to return to their home in Mexico soon—driving across the border and obtaining new tourist cards for everyone in the family and a new vehicle import permit along the way.
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Re: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans
« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2021, 03:52:30 PM »

The US/Mexico border has been closed to non-essential travelers for about as long as the US/Canada border has been shut:

https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/investigations/beyond-the-border/no-official-decision-on-us-mexico-border-reopening-as-latest-extension-expires-wednesday-san-ysidro-business/509-c81145b7-fca6-49d6-9fe0-e5a028719dd5

I just asked my wife, I’m to understand her family (her Dad several times) has been flying in.  Apparently one of friends just schedules doctor visits near the border when she travels by road.
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Re: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans
« Reply #44 on: July 20, 2021, 04:23:07 PM »

I've been to Canada 4 times and never once experienced any issue because I'm American. And Canada has beaten us in vaccination rate so they must be doing something right.

If you consider keeping most things shut down until nearly the entire country has been vaccinated,, then they're doing it right.

But if you live there, work there, and want to go anywhere, you're pretty much stuck inside until nearly everyone gets the vaccine. If what the did in Canada was done here in the US, nearly two-thirds of the states in this country still would be under significant restrictions and closures.
Their ability to convince most people to get the vaccine (more than America) was very good. Now their lockdowns into the summer I disagree with. We did some things better, they did other things better.
What are the percentages or per capita? Because the United States has 10 times the population that Canada does. Canada's entire population is about the same as the population of California.
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Re: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans
« Reply #45 on: July 20, 2021, 04:26:06 PM »

I've been to Canada 4 times and never once experienced any issue because I'm American. And Canada has beaten us in vaccination rate so they must be doing something right.

If you consider keeping most things shut down until nearly the entire country has been vaccinated,, then they're doing it right.

But if you live there, work there, and want to go anywhere, you're pretty much stuck inside until nearly everyone gets the vaccine. If what the did in Canada was done here in the US, nearly two-thirds of the states in this country still would be under significant restrictions and closures.

I'm in BC right now. Things are pretty much wide open. Ontario isn't the entire country.
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Re: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans
« Reply #46 on: July 20, 2021, 04:44:00 PM »

Ontario had a really strong third wave, it has been slow to reopen.  Everything just opened up fully last week.  We did fairly well through the first wave last spring, and we managed the fall alright, but our healthcare system was pretty strained for a few months during the spring of 2021

Our conservative premier kind of bumbled the third wave here, and was really pressing to reopen in the winter (not that I blame him), but it was too soon, and the cases went through the roof in March and April.

During April, the Ontario Conservative Party ran television ads and erected billboards blaming Canada's Liberal Prime Minister for the severity of the third wave.  That always seemed pretty rich to me.

I think the people of Ontario are getting pretty tired of the covid restrictions, and as such, generally aren't ready to rush to return to normal if it means we are going to have to suffer ill consequences from the virus again in the fall if it isn't properly tamped down now.  That's just my two cents at least.
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kalvado

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Re: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans
« Reply #47 on: July 20, 2021, 05:03:46 PM »

I've been to Canada 4 times and never once experienced any issue because I'm American. And Canada has beaten us in vaccination rate so they must be doing something right.

If you consider keeping most things shut down until nearly the entire country has been vaccinated,, then they're doing it right.

But if you live there, work there, and want to go anywhere, you're pretty much stuck inside until nearly everyone gets the vaccine. If what the did in Canada was done here in the US, nearly two-thirds of the states in this country still would be under significant restrictions and closures.
Their ability to convince most people to get the vaccine (more than America) was very good. Now their lockdowns into the summer I disagree with. We did some things better, they did other things better.
What are the percentages or per capita? Because the United States has 10 times the population that Canada does. Canada's entire population is about the same as the population of California.
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
Charts suggest that Canada has above 50% fully vaccinated vs 48% in US - but a much better future trend as in higher %% of partially vaccinated (who would be fully vaccinated in a few weeks)
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kalvado

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Re: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans
« Reply #48 on: July 20, 2021, 05:07:02 PM »


The US lets US citizens back in from Mexico.
Mexico isn't stopping US citizens from entering Mexico.
There is a pretty fundamental issue with not letting people to re-enter the country of their citizenship. 
So if Mexico took more relaxed attitude towards inflow of US dollars travelers bringing money into the country, that is one thing.
US policy on foreigners entry would likely be uniform across northern and southern borders.
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Re: Canada to reopen borders to nonessential travel- first to Americans
« Reply #49 on: July 20, 2021, 05:20:45 PM »

There is a pretty fundamental issue with not letting people to re-enter the country of their citizenship. 
So if Mexico took more relaxed attitude towards inflow of US dollars travelers bringing money into the country, that is one thing.
US policy on foreigners entry would likely be uniform across northern and southern borders.

Your reply implies that you believe tourist money is why Mexico hasn't stopped letting US visitors into their country.  I believe you're correct.  Why, then, do you assume the US would treat the northern and southern borders equally?  Would the US not have unequal interest in preserving the cash flow from one country compared to the other?
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