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Author Topic: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin  (Read 6988 times)

dvferyance

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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #50 on: October 07, 2021, 12:06:46 PM »

Another one would be DK the old routing of highway 57 a good bet that stand for Door and Kewaunee Counties.
There is also the famous DL in Sauk County which of course stands for Devils Lake.
Rock County has a BT which I assume is an abbreviation for Beloit.
Outagamie County has a CA which you could argue is an abbreviation for College Ave the name of the road or county airport since that is where it goes to.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2021, 11:45:55 PM by dvferyance »
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thspfc

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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #51 on: October 07, 2021, 01:03:32 PM »

Moderators: Delete several posts (including what I'm typing right now) and continue with the actual discussion.
Yep, delete civil discussion about roads on a road forum. Because that makes sense.
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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #52 on: October 07, 2021, 01:15:57 PM »


County highways in Wisconsin are not county roads.  Most people have posted using the correct CTH acronym.  For generations, county highways were called county trunks (County Trunk A), with CTH A, County A, or County Highway A also used.  However, County Road is incorrectly used due to the incorrect addressing by the USPS (when did the post office ever have jurisdiction over or maintain county highways?), and also by Google et. al., and people from surrounding states that call them county roads.

Having not traveled extensively in Wisconsin, and definitely not off the signed Interstate, US, and state route system, I ask: Are all county highways designated with the "County X" black-on-whilte-in-a-square-with-rounded-corners marker? Or is there a difference between levels of maintenance and funding the way there is in neighboring Minnesota, where you have county routes signed with two different markers, the standard pentagon, and a black-and-white square, where one designates a CSAH (county state-aid highway) and one doesn't?

The USPS can choose to name a mail delivery route anything it wants to. In some places in Kentucky, those are still called Rural Routes (RR) or Home Contract Routes (HCR). My grandmother's address changed from a RR, where mail was addressed to "Rt. X Box XXX," to a HCR, where the mail was addressed to "HCR X, Box XXX."

When my county instituted a 911 system, they did an exhaustive study of roads and when duplicate names were found, the appropriate government body (city or county) was asked to eliminate the duplicates. State-maintained routes were named with the route number, and if appropriate, the direction of travel. "Highway 52 West" and "Highway 52 East" going out of the county seat; other routes being differentiated directionally if there was a concurrency. ("Highway 708 North" and Highway 708 South," based on a concurrency with KY 52.) The post office adopted those 911 names as its official routings.

In Breathitt County, however, delivery addresses are mostly based on names. KY 52 runs west from its terminus at KY 30, near Jackson. Its post office and 911 name isn't "Highway 52" or "Highway 52 West." It's "Beattyville Road."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a "county highway" and a "county road" be the same thing unless the terms are used differently to distinguish between funding sources?

Also, aren't some of Missouri's lettered state secondary routes so "numbered" for special reasons?
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JoePCool14

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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #53 on: October 07, 2021, 01:57:33 PM »

Oh my god shut up about the stupid gatekeeping of what you think is proper nomenclature and stop derailing the thread.

The discussion sure seems relevant to the thread title to me.
However, you're making mountains out of molehills and are taking it off topic - please read the topic title.  This is my mod mode speaking.

Not sure if you just picked a random post to quote or not, but I'm not really the one gatekeeping:

The official name may be CTH, but does it really matter that much if we call them County Roads?
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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #54 on: October 07, 2021, 02:44:58 PM »


County highways in Wisconsin are not county roads.  Most people have posted using the correct CTH acronym.  For generations, county highways were called county trunks (County Trunk A), with CTH A, County A, or County Highway A also used.  However, County Road is incorrectly used due to the incorrect addressing by the USPS (when did the post office ever have jurisdiction over or maintain county highways?), and also by Google et. al., and people from surrounding states that call them county roads.

Having not traveled extensively in Wisconsin, and definitely not off the signed Interstate, US, and state route system, I ask: Are all county highways designated with the "County X" black-on-whilte-in-a-square-with-rounded-corners marker? Or is there a difference between levels of maintenance and funding the way there is in neighboring Minnesota, where you have county routes signed with two different markers, the standard pentagon, and a black-and-white square, where one designates a CSAH (county state-aid highway) and one doesn't?

The USPS can choose to name a mail delivery route anything it wants to. In some places in Kentucky, those are still called Rural Routes (RR) or Home Contract Routes (HCR). My grandmother's address changed from a RR, where mail was addressed to "Rt. X Box XXX," to a HCR, where the mail was addressed to "HCR X, Box XXX."

When my county instituted a 911 system, they did an exhaustive study of roads and when duplicate names were found, the appropriate government body (city or county) was asked to eliminate the duplicates. State-maintained routes were named with the route number, and if appropriate, the direction of travel. "Highway 52 West" and "Highway 52 East" going out of the county seat; other routes being differentiated directionally if there was a concurrency. ("Highway 708 North" and Highway 708 South," based on a concurrency with KY 52.) The post office adopted those 911 names as its official routings.

In Breathitt County, however, delivery addresses are mostly based on names. KY 52 runs west from its terminus at KY 30, near Jackson. Its post office and 911 name isn't "Highway 52" or "Highway 52 West." It's "Beattyville Road."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a "county highway" and a "county road" be the same thing unless the terms are used differently to distinguish between funding sources?

Also, aren't some of Missouri's lettered state secondary routes so "numbered" for special reasons?


All county highways are designated the same way and there are no primary or secondary highways.  They are all signed with the "traditional" county highway sign like you mention, although some counties are better than others at signage.  And Waukesha County has a weird sign that is used every so often but it is still black on white.

Most unincorporated portions of counties are set up on a grid of some sort that determines addressing and would be something along the lines of "W1234 County Highway T."
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thspfc

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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #55 on: October 07, 2021, 04:05:27 PM »


County highways in Wisconsin are not county roads.  Most people have posted using the correct CTH acronym.  For generations, county highways were called county trunks (County Trunk A), with CTH A, County A, or County Highway A also used.  However, County Road is incorrectly used due to the incorrect addressing by the USPS (when did the post office ever have jurisdiction over or maintain county highways?), and also by Google et. al., and people from surrounding states that call them county roads.

Having not traveled extensively in Wisconsin, and definitely not off the signed Interstate, US, and state route system, I ask: Are all county highways designated with the "County X" black-on-whilte-in-a-square-with-rounded-corners marker? Or is there a difference between levels of maintenance and funding the way there is in neighboring Minnesota, where you have county routes signed with two different markers, the standard pentagon, and a black-and-white square, where one designates a CSAH (county state-aid highway) and one doesn't?

The USPS can choose to name a mail delivery route anything it wants to. In some places in Kentucky, those are still called Rural Routes (RR) or Home Contract Routes (HCR). My grandmother's address changed from a RR, where mail was addressed to "Rt. X Box XXX," to a HCR, where the mail was addressed to "HCR X, Box XXX."

When my county instituted a 911 system, they did an exhaustive study of roads and when duplicate names were found, the appropriate government body (city or county) was asked to eliminate the duplicates. State-maintained routes were named with the route number, and if appropriate, the direction of travel. "Highway 52 West" and "Highway 52 East" going out of the county seat; other routes being differentiated directionally if there was a concurrency. ("Highway 708 North" and Highway 708 South," based on a concurrency with KY 52.) The post office adopted those 911 names as its official routings.

In Breathitt County, however, delivery addresses are mostly based on names. KY 52 runs west from its terminus at KY 30, near Jackson. Its post office and 911 name isn't "Highway 52" or "Highway 52 West." It's "Beattyville Road."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a "county highway" and a "county road" be the same thing unless the terms are used differently to distinguish between funding sources?

Also, aren't some of Missouri's lettered state secondary routes so "numbered" for special reasons?
I believe that Wisconsin's county routes are some of the most consistent in the country in terms of signage and maintenance. All of them are considered to be the same "level". Almost all of them have adequate pavement markings (contrary to a lot of the paved backroads that are not county routes).

The nicer ones, such as this, look the same as WI state routes: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2217202,-89.263898,3a,50.4y,176.87h,81.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFj_zyIUvfiWDgnSKh6OF5A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

That stretch of CTH-C is probably one of the nicer two lane roads in Wisconsin right now.

Most of them look more like this: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3009682,-89.3829271,3a,75y,9.48h,84.86t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sBbYP4eJ8TciFwkCsT7uk6Q!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DBbYP4eJ8TciFwkCsT7uk6Q%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D89.28088%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

There's the occasional unsigned ghost route. It's also annoying how some of them have really odd routings. CTH-A in Sheboygan County, for example, begins in Oostburg, goes southwest to near Kewaskum, then north to Elkhart Lake, then back east to Howards Grove.

Some of them are really long because one county picks up where the other left off, and then another, and so on. CTH-F in southwestern Wisconsin, between Belmont and Black Earth, is longer than more than 100 WI state routes.
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #56 on: October 07, 2021, 04:10:52 PM »

In Burnett County I saw a Minnesota-style square on a county road (even included the county name), which I assumed was an error.

The GSV image quality is terrible, but you can still make out the design. https://www.google.com/maps/@45.8992623,-92.3639293,3a,15y,148.77h,85.2t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sQjrMN7hywDYEcEpZ9UHwhQ!2e0!5s20090701T000000!7i3328!8i1664
« Last Edit: October 07, 2021, 04:16:11 PM by TheHighwayMan394 »
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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #57 on: October 07, 2021, 08:33:16 PM »

Our parlance where I grew up is "County W"; "County F"; "County M".
But if you wrote an address, it was usually "CTH W" "CTH F" etc.
Among my family, we just called them "Hwy __".
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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #58 on: October 07, 2021, 10:10:27 PM »

In Waukesha County, we have CTH-DR which runs along Delafield Road as part of it's route. The other interesting thing I've seen is decommissioned CTH routes keeping their name in some form or another. Here again in Waukesha County, we have "Road X", "Road DT", and "Town GE".
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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #59 on: October 07, 2021, 10:22:04 PM »

In Waukesha County, we have CTH-DR which runs along Delafield Road as part of it's route.

Bonus points if it happens to have a doctor's office or medical building of some sort located along it. (Does it?)
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dvferyance

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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #60 on: October 07, 2021, 11:45:35 PM »

In Waukesha County, we have CTH-DR which runs along Delafield Road as part of it's route.

Bonus points if it happens to have a doctor's office or medical building of some sort located along it. (Does it?)
Yeah in matter a fact it does the Aurora Oconomowoc Hospital is on it.
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peterj920

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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #61 on: October 08, 2021, 02:13:54 AM »

Another one would be DK the old routing of highway 57 a good bet that stand for Door and Kewaunee Counties.
There is also the famous DL in Sauk County which of course stands for Devils Lake.
Rock County has a BT which I assume is an abbreviation for Beloit.
Outagamie County has a CA which you could argue is an abbreviation for College Ave the name of the road or county airport since that is where it goes to.

DK could also be for Dyckesville which it passes through. County DK starts in Brown Co and is in Kewaunee County for the least amount of miles with the majority in Door County.
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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #62 on: October 08, 2021, 08:46:23 AM »

In Waukesha County, we have CTH-DR which runs along Delafield Road as part of it's route. The other interesting thing I've seen is decommissioned CTH routes keeping their name in some form or another. Here again in Waukesha County, we have "Road X", "Road DT", and "Town GE".


When I was a young child living in rural Waukesha County, both DT and GE were county highways.  That whole area is a lot more built up than it used to be, which is why they were likely demoted.
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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #63 on: October 08, 2021, 09:01:26 AM »

Has anyone mentioned College Ave in Appleton (CA)?
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Big John

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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #64 on: October 08, 2021, 10:51:08 PM »

Has anyone mentioned College Ave in Appleton (CA)?

See reply #50.
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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #65 on: October 09, 2021, 01:10:29 AM »

Ah there it is. Kinda got lost in the shuffle between some of the arguing.
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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #66 on: October 09, 2021, 01:11:50 AM »

Ah there it is. Kinda got lost in the shuffle between some of the arguing.
And that being said, this thread still has not been cleaned up...
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dvferyance

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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #67 on: October 11, 2021, 05:52:25 PM »

In Waukesha County, we have CTH-DR which runs along Delafield Road as part of it's route. The other interesting thing I've seen is decommissioned CTH routes keeping their name in some form or another. Here again in Waukesha County, we have "Road X", "Road DT", and "Town GE".


When I was a young child living in rural Waukesha County, both DT and GE were county highways.  That whole area is a lot more built up than it used to be, which is why they were likely demoted.
DT probably should again as it makes a nice alternative to the congested Waukesha west bypass. Same as the part of road X between 83 and E. It's a major enough route to justify being a county road.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2021, 07:27:04 PM by dvferyance »
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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #68 on: October 13, 2021, 08:55:35 AM »

In Waukesha County, we have CTH-DR which runs along Delafield Road as part of it's route. The other interesting thing I've seen is decommissioned CTH routes keeping their name in some form or another. Here again in Waukesha County, we have "Road X", "Road DT", and "Town GE".


When I was a young child living in rural Waukesha County, both DT and GE were county highways.  That whole area is a lot more built up than it used to be, which is why they were likely demoted.
DT probably should again as it makes a nice alternative to the congested Waukesha west bypass. Same as the part of road X between 83 and E. It's a major enough route to justify being a county road.


Neither is built to a level to be a decent alternative.
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dvferyance

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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #69 on: October 15, 2021, 11:35:34 PM »

In Waukesha County, we have CTH-DR which runs along Delafield Road as part of it's route. The other interesting thing I've seen is decommissioned CTH routes keeping their name in some form or another. Here again in Waukesha County, we have "Road X", "Road DT", and "Town GE".


When I was a young child living in rural Waukesha County, both DT and GE were county highways.  That whole area is a lot more built up than it used to be, which is why they were likely demoted.
DT probably should again as it makes a nice alternative to the congested Waukesha west bypass. Same as the part of road X between 83 and E. It's a major enough route to justify being a county road.


Neither is built to a level to be a decent alternative.
I use Road X all the time it's the best way to get to The Kettle Moraine area from the eastern part of the county. If it was once a county highway before I don't see why it couldn't work now.
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dalemidex

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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #70 on: February 22, 2022, 11:09:54 PM »

There's the occasional unsigned ghost route. It's also annoying how some of them have really odd routings. CTH-A in Sheboygan County, for example, begins in Oostburg, goes southwest to near Kewaskum, then north to Elkhart Lake, then back east to Howards Grove.

County Trunk A in Sheboygan County rings the county similar to WI 100 in Milwaukee County.  And it was nearly a complete ring originally.  On the north end instead of terminating in Howard's Grove it went a mile north on 42 and headed east on what is today FF, then before Haven it headed south on today's Dairlyand Drive (CTH DL) ot meet 42 again just northwest of Sheboygan in the crossroads town of Erdman.  On the south from Oostburg it does still head north/northeast and terminates in Kohler at CTH PP.  It used to instead head up the current Taylor Drive on the east side of 43 and curve into Sheboygan on Union Avenue.  Not quite a full circle tour of the county even in the original form but pretty close.

That actually points out two more county trunk letters chosen for a specific reason:

When Dairyland Drive was upgraded to a county trunk in Sheboygan and into Manitowoc Counties it was named DL
When Taylor Drive's southern portion was completed and upgraded to a county trunk in Sheboygan it was named TA

Beyond those two and the previously-mentioned LS for Lakeshore, Sheboygan County's lettering creativity was most often limited to combining the letters of two major county highways to designate a connector between them.  Examples (some still current, some no longer evident due to decomissioning) are JM the spur to Johnsonville from J and M, OJ near Plymouth joining O and J, JP near Elkhart Lake joining J and P, VN connecting V and N southwest of Sheboygan Falls, GW connecting G and W and KW connecting K and W both west of Oostburg / Cedar Grove, CJ joins C and J near Crystal Lake.  Not the most exciting system but not without its usefulness.
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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #71 on: February 23, 2022, 09:52:42 PM »

As anyone who lives in or has visited Wisconsin will know, the state marks its county roads with letters instead of numbers. The vast majority of these roads are designated either by a single letter, or by the same letter doubled (or sometimes even tripled). However, there are some county roads throughout the state whose designation consists of two different letters. Sometimes, these letter combinations are chosen due to having some symbolic meaning, such as:

  • County Road KR, which runs along the border of Kenosha and Racine counties
  • County Road PB southwest of Madison, named such because it connects Paoli and Belleville; also, it's in a former lead-mining region, and the road's name is the chemical symbol for lead
  • County Road LS, which parallels the Lake Michigan shoreline between Sheboygan and Manitowoc (short for "Lake Shore," perhaps?)

Aside from what I mentioned, what are some other similarly meaningful or symbolic lettered county-road designations that might be found throughout Wisconsin? In addition, there are some others I'm aware of but don't know their meaning; for example, why is Lombardi Avenue in Green Bay marked as County Road VK? (If anything, it should be "VL" for Vince Lombardi.)

County highways in Wisconsin are not county roads.  Most people have posted using the correct CTH acronym.  For generations, county highways were called county trunks (County Trunk A), with CTH A, County A, or County Highway A also used.  However, County Road is incorrectly used due to the incorrect addressing by the USPS (when did the post office ever have jurisdiction over or maintain county highways?), and also by Google et. al., and people from surrounding states that call them county roads.

The official name may be CTH, but does it really matter that much if we call them County Roads?

For many years now, the USA's Federal Government (AKA, the United States Postal Service) has insisted on calling them 'County Roads' (eg, N1234 COUNTY ROAD BC CITY NAME WI 54999').

Also, Wisconsin has NEVER used MUTCD 'pentagons' for marking its county highways.

Mike
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mgk920

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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #72 on: February 23, 2022, 10:08:04 PM »

County highways in Wisconsin are not county roads.
Sure they are. A county highway is a road maintained by the county. A county highway is a highway maintained by the county. A highway is a road.

IMHO, one of the best two lanes roads in the entire State of Wisconsin is Dodge County 'A' between US 151 in Beaver Dam and WI 26 a short distance north of Watertown.  I'm thinking that it was built like it was by the Dodge County Highway Department in the hopes that it would soon be taken over by WisDOT and used as a reroute for WI 26.  It is a major truck route between the Fox Valley (Appleton, Green Bay and Oshkosh area) and points south and west of Chicago.

Mike
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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #73 on: February 23, 2022, 10:13:52 PM »

I think it was somewhere north of Augusta I saw consecutive CTH ND and SD. I thought that was pretty great.
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Re: Symbolic county road letter designations in Wisconsin
« Reply #74 on: February 23, 2022, 10:16:05 PM »

County WH is mostly former Wis 149 that became 3 different county roads. Between Marytown and Kiel, it became an extension of County HH. The concurrent section with County G is just County G. Between US 151 and County G the route was changed to County WH. When US 151 was rerouted, County WH was extended through Taycheedah along old 151. No idea why WH was chosen other than Old Wis 149 intersecting County HH and County W.

Keep in mind Fond Du Lac County may have more County road routes than any other county in the state.

It has HHH, VVV, and OOO for triple letters and once had County KKK which probably went away for obvious reasons. However, it was renamed Triple Kay Rd.

Other odd choices are County AS, AW, TC, and RP.

I always thought that Kenosha County had the highest lettered county highway density in the state.

Mike
« Last Edit: February 23, 2022, 10:35:30 PM by mgk920 »
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