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Author Topic: Original freeway plans for Detroit Metro  (Read 2826 times)

Chrysler375Freeway

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Original freeway plans for Detroit Metro
« on: October 17, 2021, 10:31:52 PM »

Okay, I've been looking over planned freeways that never got built, and one of them is M-53's freeway leaving Van
Dyke and following Mound Road. The only thing that really got built was that massive interchange at its junction with Interstate 696. What would keep such a freeway from being built today, and why were the Mound Road freeway and potential connector to the current M-53 freeway never built? Is it because of perceived low traffic volumes, depopulation, opposition, something else, or a combination of factors? Another is I-275 extending north and reconnecting with I-75. The only things built were the Haggerty Connector, and a widened median on I-75. What factors killed 275 (interstate or state route) north of Novi?
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SkyPesos

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Re: Original freeway plans for Detroit Metro
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2021, 11:39:20 PM »

Another is I-275 extending north and reconnecting with I-75. The only things built were the Haggerty Connector, and a widened median on I-75. What factors killed 275 (interstate or state route) north of Novi?
Environmental issues
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Chrysler375Freeway

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Re: Original freeway plans for Detroit Metro
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2021, 12:03:12 AM »

Another is I-275 extending north and reconnecting with I-75. The only things built were the Haggerty Connector, and a widened median on I-75. What factors killed 275 (interstate or state route) north of Novi?
Environmental issues
I saw a study saying that drivers circumnavigating Detroit would have had 8 minutes shaved off of travel times if the northern extension was built. Frankly, with the amount of urban sprawl there would be around 275 North today, the time wouldn’t be 8 minutes, more like 5-6 minutes, or even less depending on traffic and the amount of sprawl.
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SkyPesos

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Re: Original freeway plans for Detroit Metro
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2021, 12:07:16 AM »

Another is I-275 extending north and reconnecting with I-75. The only things built were the Haggerty Connector, and a widened median on I-75. What factors killed 275 (interstate or state route) north of Novi?
Environmental issues
I saw a study saying that drivers circumnavigating Detroit would have had 8 minutes shaved off of travel times if the northern extension was built. Frankly, with the amount of urban sprawl there would be around 275 North today, the time wouldn’t be 8 minutes, more like 5-6 minutes, or even less depending on traffic and the amount of sprawl.
US 23 is used as an I-75 Detroit bypass nowadays.
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Chrysler375Freeway

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Re: Original freeway plans for Detroit Metro
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2021, 12:27:43 AM »

Another is I-275 extending north and reconnecting with I-75. The only things built were the Haggerty Connector, and a widened median on I-75. What factors killed 275 (interstate or state route) north of Novi?
Environmental issues
I saw a study saying that drivers circumnavigating Detroit would have had 8 minutes shaved off of travel times if the northern extension was built. Frankly, with the amount of urban sprawl there would be around 275 North today, the time wouldn’t be 8 minutes, more like 5-6 minutes, or even less depending on traffic and the amount of sprawl.
US 23 is used as an I-75 Detroit bypass nowadays.
That’s because it’s outside the Metro. The only way the metro bypass is completed is via driving I-696 (or I-275 if on I-696). Building a beltway is near impossible because it would have to cross an international border, and I doubt Canada may be willing to move ground for a city in the United States, let alone in Michigan.
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Re: Original freeway plans for Detroit Metro
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2021, 06:36:49 AM »

I doubt Canada may be willing to move ground for a city in the United States

They're extending A-35 and A-73 in Quebec.
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froggie

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Re: Original freeway plans for Detroit Metro
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2021, 09:26:10 AM »

^ A-35 and A-73 aren't in cities, however...and one could argue that, given whats on the US side of the border, those extensions are more directly benefiting the Canadian cities (specifically Montreal and Quebec City).

But there's an example that's even Michigan-centric:  Canada *IS* "moving ground" for Detroit in building a freeway connection between ON 401 and the under-construction Gordie Howe Bridge.
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Ryctor2018

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Re: Original freeway plans for Detroit Metro
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2021, 02:08:36 PM »

The M-53 freeway south from its current terminus, along the Mound Road corridor, was cancelled in the early 1970's. As noted on http://www.michiganhighways.org/listings/M-053.html, the route was scaled back because Detroit freeway building was cut around that time. (The Davison freeway was supposed to be built also and was cut back as well). The giant stack that was constructed (along with a short 1 mile freeway between 10-11 Mile Roads) at Mound Rd/I-696 is all that was constructed.
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Chrysler375Freeway

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Re: Original freeway plans for Detroit Metro
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2021, 02:10:02 PM »

^ A-35 and A-73 aren't in cities, however...and one could argue that, given whats on the US side of the border, those extensions are more directly benefiting the Canadian cities (specifically Montreal and Quebec City).

But there's an example that's even Michigan-centric:  Canada *IS* "moving ground" for Detroit in building a freeway connection between ON 401 and the under-construction Gordie Howe Bridge.
Maine has no intention of building a freeway for Route 201, but that's a topic for the Northeast board. Along 35 in Quebec, they're planning to complete (pardon my French, or lack thereof) Sortirs (exits) 3, 6, and 28 and the Interstate 89 connection by mid-decade. This connection would fill a connection gap between Montreal and Boston. Construction of 35's southern section is underway as I type this.
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Chrysler375Freeway

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Re: Original freeway plans for Detroit Metro
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2021, 02:11:29 PM »

The M-53 freeway south from its current terminus, along the Mound Road corridor, was cancelled in the early 1970's. As noted on http://www.michiganhighways.org/listings/M-053.html, the route was scaled back because Detroit freeway building was cut around that time. (The Davison freeway was supposed to be built also and was cut back as well). The giant stack that was constructed (along with a short 1 mile freeway between 10-11 Mile Roads) at Mound Rd/I-696 is all that was constructed.
I know someone stated at one point (I don't know who) that the Davison was also supposed to connect to that massive interchange.
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Ryctor2018

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Re: Original freeway plans for Detroit Metro
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2021, 02:28:11 PM »

The M-53 freeway south from its current terminus, along the Mound Road corridor, was cancelled in the early 1970's. As noted on http://www.michiganhighways.org/listings/M-053.html, the route was scaled back because Detroit freeway building was cut around that time. (The Davison freeway was supposed to be built also and was cut back as well). The giant stack that was constructed (along with a short 1 mile freeway between 10-11 Mile Roads) at Mound Rd/I-696 is all that was constructed.
I know someone stated at one point (I don't know who) that the Davison was also supposed to connect to that massive interchange.

Well there are old Detroit highway plans you can find (I can see if I can dig them up) that show the Davison's route thru the region. Basically, M-8 was supposed to continue east from its current terminus to an M-53 interchange at Mound Rd on Detroit's eastside. Then, M-53 was to make its way around Detroit City Airport to follow Conner Ave to the weird I-94/Conner Ave interchange. One of the reasons that intersection has that design. M-53 would have followed Mound thru Warren, I-696, and Sterling Hts to connect with the current freeway.
Also, after the current "Romeo Bypass" was completed, there was a push to extend the freeway north to I-69. But, traffic counts in northern Macomb county don't really warrant that level of service for a freeway. Last I saw (before leaving the Detroit area) was that M-53 was improved to a better all-season road. Wider shoulders, thicker pavement, sight lines improved, better lighting and signage. That sort of thing from Romeo north to Imlay City.
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Chrysler375Freeway

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Re: Original freeway plans for Detroit Metro
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2021, 02:41:14 PM »

The M-53 freeway south from its current terminus, along the Mound Road corridor, was cancelled in the early 1970's. As noted on http://www.michiganhighways.org/listings/M-053.html, the route was scaled back because Detroit freeway building was cut around that time. (The Davison freeway was supposed to be built also and was cut back as well). The giant stack that was constructed (along with a short 1 mile freeway between 10-11 Mile Roads) at Mound Rd/I-696 is all that was constructed.
I know someone stated at one point (I don't know who) that the Davison was also supposed to connect to that massive interchange.
Well there are old Detroit highway plans you can find (I can see if I can dig them up) that show the Davison's route thru the region. Basically, M-8 was supposed to continue east from its current terminus to an M-53 interchange at Mound Rd on Detroit's eastside. Then, M-53 was to make its way around Detroit City Airport to follow Conner Ave to the weird I-94/Conner Ave interchange. One of the reasons that intersection has that design. M-53 would have followed Mound thru Warren, I-696, and Sterling Hts to connect with the current freeway.
Also, after the current "Romeo Bypass" was completed, there was a push to extend the freeway north to I-69. But, traffic counts in northern Macomb county don't really warrant that level of service for a freeway. Last I saw (before leaving the Detroit area) was that M-53 was improved to a better all-season road. Wider shoulders, thicker pavement, sight lines improved, better lighting and signage. That sort of thing from Romeo north to Imlay City.
The Davison and the massive interchange's traffic counts today are below what they would have been had every freeway in the Metro that was originally planned been built.
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Flint1979

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Re: Original freeway plans for Detroit Metro
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2021, 09:36:37 PM »

The M-53 freeway was canceled because Detroit wasn't going to build anymore freeways. The I-275 freeway north of Novi was canceled because of opposition against it and the lakes in the area. Now it could never be completed due to development in the area over the last 60 years.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Original freeway plans for Detroit Metro
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2021, 04:17:55 PM »

I think had the Davison Freeway been completed as originally proposed, it would have had the M-14 designation. Also, Exit 186B on Interstate 96 should be either downgraded or removed (in which case M-8 would be extended to terminate at the Wyoming Ave. interchange). A freeway-to-freeway interchange is no longer necessary at this location (since the Davison Freeway will forever have its western terminus at the Rosa Parks Blvd. intersection).
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Chrysler375Freeway

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Re: Original freeway plans for Detroit Metro
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2021, 06:59:05 PM »

I think had the Davison Freeway been completed as originally proposed, it would have had the M-14 designation. Also, Exit 186B on Interstate 96 should be either downgraded or removed (in which case M-8 would be extended to terminate at the Wyoming Ave. interchange). A freeway-to-freeway interchange is no longer necessary at this location (since the Davison Freeway will forever have its western terminus at the Rosa Parks Blvd. intersection).
So does that mean Route 14 would have been concurrent with I-96 for a few exits, or because 96 would run along Grand River, that M-14 would extend farther east than it currently does? Because I heard somewhere that the Davison was planned to extend to I-94 (Edsel Ford Freeway/Detroit Industrial Expressway) as well.
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Ryctor2018

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Re: Original freeway plans for Detroit Metro
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2021, 02:35:18 PM »

I think had the Davison Freeway been completed as originally proposed, it would have had the M-14 designation. Also, Exit 186B on Interstate 96 should be either downgraded or removed (in which case M-8 would be extended to terminate at the Wyoming Ave. interchange). A freeway-to-freeway interchange is no longer necessary at this location (since the Davison Freeway will forever have its western terminus at the Rosa Parks Blvd. intersection).
So does that mean Route 14 would have been concurrent with I-96 for a few exits, or because 96 would run along Grand River, that M-14 would extend farther east than it currently does? Because I heard somewhere that the Davison was planned to extend to I-94 (Edsel Ford Freeway/Detroit Industrial Expressway) as well.

This website: http://www.michiganhighways.org/listings/M-008.html explains the Davison (M-8) routing. But, in short; M-14 was on Plymouth Road (even today is unsigned and state maintained outside of Detroit), the Davison would have connected to the Jeffries Fwy on Detroit's westside and would have been a crosstown freeway for the city.

MDOT wouldn't remove the freeway interchange for I-96/M-8 because the state still maintains Davison Ave between the Jeffries and Lodge Fwys. It's still a main crosstown 4-6 lane arterial route, albeit not a freeway. If anything, the state has upgraded the street over the years.
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Flint1979

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Re: Original freeway plans for Detroit Metro
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2021, 06:53:25 PM »

I think had the Davison Freeway been completed as originally proposed, it would have had the M-14 designation. Also, Exit 186B on Interstate 96 should be either downgraded or removed (in which case M-8 would be extended to terminate at the Wyoming Ave. interchange). A freeway-to-freeway interchange is no longer necessary at this location (since the Davison Freeway will forever have its western terminus at the Rosa Parks Blvd. intersection).
So does that mean Route 14 would have been concurrent with I-96 for a few exits, or because 96 would run along Grand River, that M-14 would extend farther east than it currently does? Because I heard somewhere that the Davison was planned to extend to I-94 (Edsel Ford Freeway/Detroit Industrial Expressway) as well.

This website: http://www.michiganhighways.org/listings/M-008.html explains the Davison (M-8) routing. But, in short; M-14 was on Plymouth Road (even today is unsigned and state maintained outside of Detroit), the Davison would have connected to the Jeffries Fwy on Detroit's westside and would have been a crosstown freeway for the city.

MDOT wouldn't remove the freeway interchange for I-96/M-8 because the state still maintains Davison Ave between the Jeffries and Lodge Fwys. It's still a main crosstown 4-6 lane arterial route, albeit not a freeway. If anything, the state has upgraded the street over the years.
Right. Davison is a main street in that area. West of there it isn't but it is from the Jeffries Freeway all the way to Van Dyke
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Papa Emeritus

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Re: Original freeway plans for Detroit Metro
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2021, 11:56:29 AM »

Another is I-275 extending north and reconnecting with I-75. The only things built were the Haggerty Connector, and a widened median on I-75. What factors killed 275 (interstate or state route) north of Novi?
Environmental issues
I saw a study saying that drivers circumnavigating Detroit would have had 8 minutes shaved off of travel times if the northern extension was built. Frankly, with the amount of urban sprawl there would be around 275 North today, the time wouldn’t be 8 minutes, more like 5-6 minutes, or even less depending on traffic and the amount of sprawl.

Remember, though, that the area where 275 North would have been built has congested surface streets. If 275 North had been built, it would have reduced the traffic volumes on local streets.

One transportation planner said that 275 North was cancelled to prevent suburban sprawl, but the sprawl came anyway and left the area with inadequate roads.
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Papa Emeritus

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Re: Original freeway plans for Detroit Metro
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2021, 12:00:58 PM »

Other routes:

M 59 was planned to be a freeway from I-96 to I-94. It would have been a northern bypass of the Detroit area, and a way for people in western Oakland county who worked at the GM plants in Pontiac to get to / from work faster.

The Lodge Freeway was supposed to continue northwest to an interchange with 275 North.

I think at one point, there was a proposal to make Telegraph Road a freeway. NIMBYs in Birmingham and Bloomfield Hills would have stopped this proposal had it been seriously considered.
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Ryctor2018

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Re: Original freeway plans for Detroit Metro
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2021, 01:50:30 PM »

Other routes:

M 59 was planned to be a freeway from I-96 to I-94. It would have been a northern bypass of the Detroit area, and a way for people in western Oakland county who worked at the GM plants in Pontiac to get to / from work faster.

The Lodge Freeway was supposed to continue northwest to an interchange with 275 North.

I think at one point, there was a proposal to make Telegraph Road a freeway. NIMBYs in Birmingham and Bloomfield Hills would have stopped this proposal had it been seriously considered.

Actually, Northwestern Hwy (continuing from the John C Lodge) was to go all the way up to Fenton, MI. Where it would intersect US-23. I don't believe this was cancelled because of NIMBY's since the area was lightly populated in the 1960s-80s. I guess MDOT changed plans.

If you look at the Detroit road system, most routes were built, either as planned or with modification. Not a lot of metropolitan areas around the country are like that. Really, only Houston, Los Angeles and maybe Dallas are like this. Unlike Cincy, metro Washington, Milwaukee and Atlanta that killed many routes in their cities.
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23skidoo

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Re: Original freeway plans for Detroit Metro
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2021, 07:59:30 PM »

Okay, I've been looking over planned freeways that never got built, and one of them is M-53's freeway leaving Van
Dyke and following Mound Road. The only thing that really got built was that massive interchange at its junction with Interstate 696. What would keep such a freeway from being built today, and why were the Mound Road freeway and potential connector to the current M-53 freeway never built? Is it because of perceived low traffic volumes, depopulation, opposition, something else, or a combination of factors?

I proposed a Mound-Davison freeway on the Fictional Highways forum five years ago: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=17970.msg2145020#msg2145020 In terms of what would keep such a freeway from being built, a lot of the ROW is developed now so a lot of businesses would have to be demolished (especially in Macomb County). The Detroit section might actually be easier due to widespread abandonment, but I think there would be vocal opposition to building another freeway within city limits given the unfortunate history of running freeways through Black neighborhoods.

M 59 was planned to be a freeway from I-96 to I-94. It would have been a northern bypass of the Detroit area, and a way for people in western Oakland county who worked at the GM plants in Pontiac to get to / from work faster.

Did this one too: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=17806.msg2146027#msg2146027 and https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=17564.msg2136449#msg2136449 and https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=18785.msg2173767#msg2173767

The I-275 freeway north of Novi was canceled because of opposition against it and the lakes in the area. Now it could never be completed due to development in the area over the last 60 years.

I live nearby and I can understand why it was never built. There are a lot of lakes in that part of Oakland County and what isn't lake is wetland. I've seen the proposed route of I-275 north of I-696. Basically it followed M-5 to where it currently ends at Pontiac Trail. Around here, it interchanged with Northwestern Highway. Then it went northwest in between Lower Straits and Reed Lakes, paralleled Bogie Lake Road up to M-59, and then went more-or-less due north from there, intersecting I-75 near Davisburg Road.

That’s because it’s outside the Metro. The only way the metro bypass is completed is via driving I-696 (or I-275 if on I-696). Building a beltway is near impossible because it would have to cross an international border, and I doubt Canada may be willing to move ground for a city in the United States, let alone in Michigan.

What about a Chatham-Sarnia freeway link? In effect, you'd have a beltway that runs from I-69 to CA-402 to the new freeway to the CA-401 to I-96 to I-94 to US-23, meeting I-69 again in Flint. It would be kind of a weird off-center beltway, I'll admit, but it might fit the bill.
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Terry Shea

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Re: Original freeway plans for Detroit Metro
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2021, 11:06:54 PM »

Did the Fictional Highways forum get moved here?
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