Milwaukee area freeways

[SEWIGuy]

They had the funds, then they squandered them in a political battle by delaying the projects.

Yep. And for some reason they all think that kicking the can down the road is a reasonable solution.

A political reason.  Walker won't raise gas taxes to protect his future Presidential run. 

[MantyMadTown]

They had the funds, then they squandered them in a political battle by delaying the projects.

Yep. And for some reason they all think that kicking the can down the road is a reasonable solution.

A political reason.  Walker won't raise gas taxes to protect his future Presidential run.

He already ran for president in 2016. We all know how that went. Unless you mean 2020? Anyway he's running for governor again. He cares more about winning elections than actually helping the people of Wisconsin. It sucks that he doesn't care about doing anything for us.

[SSOWorld]

Any politician is in it for none other than running for re-election.

Back to the topic...

[MantyMadTown]

I think the topic was how to get back the funds to work on the Zoo Interchange, is that correct?

[dvferyance]

They had the funds, then they squandered them in a political battle by delaying the projects.

Yep. And for some reason they all think that kicking the can down the road is a reasonable solution.

A political reason.  Walker won't raise gas taxes to protect his future Presidential run.

He already ran for president in 2016. We all know how that went. Unless you mean 2020? Anyway he's running for governor again. He cares more about winning elections than actually helping the people of Wisconsin. It sucks that he doesn't care about doing anything for us.

I don't see how raising taxes is helping the people but regardless I wish this forum would not get to political.

[SEWIGuy]

They had the funds, then they squandered them in a political battle by delaying the projects.

Yep. And for some reason they all think that kicking the can down the road is a reasonable solution.

A political reason.  Walker won't raise gas taxes to protect his future Presidential run.

He already ran for president in 2016. We all know how that went. Unless you mean 2020? Anyway he's running for governor again. He cares more about winning elections than actually helping the people of Wisconsin. It sucks that he doesn't care about doing anything for us.

I don't see how raising taxes is helping the people but regardless I wish this forum would not get to political.

And that sentence is very indicative of the problem.

[midwesternroadguy]

At the very least, WisDOT may rethink their design for the CTH KR interchange; throw in a loop or something.
I'm bemused by this Foxconn thing; watching all the 'free market' types fall all over themselves to have the government subsidize this one factory; picking winners and losers.  I have to assume they'll be using eminent domain to secure at least some of the land needed and hand it over to this private corporation.  I thought big government was bad?
But it's okay apparently, because there will be like 12,000 jobs...  for robots.

It's great we get to 8-lane I-94 the rest of the way, but it's coming at the expense of, in my opinion, more deserving highway projects around the state and especially in southeast Wisconsin.  An extra lane there is good, but an extra lane on I-43 on the north side of Metro Milwaukee would be much, much better.  Just one example.

The whole FoxConn deal is a con job. Essentially, politicians moving heaven and earth to accommodate one company, so they can brag about"creating jobs."

At least Wisconsin has no chance of getting Amazon. That's going to be an even more ridiculous deal.

Let's just get back to talking about roads. Politics belong on a different forum.

Avoid politics so we can't talk about what's really happening in this state?   Maybe people won't be led down the garden path anymore–as that won't be full of "Scottholes" . 

[dvferyance]

At the very least, WisDOT may rethink their design for the CTH KR interchange; throw in a loop or something.
I'm bemused by this Foxconn thing; watching all the 'free market' types fall all over themselves to have the government subsidize this one factory; picking winners and losers.  I have to assume they'll be using eminent domain to secure at least some of the land needed and hand it over to this private corporation.  I thought big government was bad?
But it's okay apparently, because there will be like 12,000 jobs...  for robots.

It's great we get to 8-lane I-94 the rest of the way, but it's coming at the expense of, in my opinion, more deserving highway projects around the state and especially in southeast Wisconsin.  An extra lane there is good, but an extra lane on I-43 on the north side of Metro Milwaukee would be much, much better.  Just one example.

The whole FoxConn deal is a con job. Essentially, politicians moving heaven and earth to accommodate one company, so they can brag about"creating jobs."

At least Wisconsin has no chance of getting Amazon. That's going to be an even more ridiculous deal.

Let's just get back to talking about roads. Politics belong on a different forum.

Avoid politics so we can't talk about what's really happening in this state?   Maybe people won't be led down the garden path anymore–as that won't be full of "Scottholes" .

Ok if you want to discuss politics I will say this I remember when fmr Gov Doyle raided the transportation funds to balance his budget.

[hobsini2]

At the very least, WisDOT may rethink their design for the CTH KR interchange; throw in a loop or something.
I'm bemused by this Foxconn thing; watching all the 'free market' types fall all over themselves to have the government subsidize this one factory; picking winners and losers.  I have to assume they'll be using eminent domain to secure at least some of the land needed and hand it over to this private corporation.  I thought big government was bad?
But it's okay apparently, because there will be like 12,000 jobs...  for robots.

It's great we get to 8-lane I-94 the rest of the way, but it's coming at the expense of, in my opinion, more deserving highway projects around the state and especially in southeast Wisconsin.  An extra lane there is good, but an extra lane on I-43 on the north side of Metro Milwaukee would be much, much better.  Just one example.

The whole FoxConn deal is a con job. Essentially, politicians moving heaven and earth to accommodate one company, so they can brag about"creating jobs."

At least Wisconsin has no chance of getting Amazon. That's going to be an even more ridiculous deal.

Let's just get back to talking about roads. Politics belong on a different forum.

Avoid politics so we can't talk about what's really happening in this state?   Maybe people won't be led down the garden path anymore–as that won't be full of "Scottholes" .

Ok if you want to discuss politics I will say this I remember when fmr Gov Doyle raided the transportation funds to balance his budget.

Big difference between balancing the budget and subsidizing a company, not that it makes it any better though.

[MantyMadTown]

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2018/08/28/scott-walker-declares-zoo-interchange-done-even-work-remains/1121749002/

I know this is old, but when's the rest of the Zoo Interchange project going to be done? I'm hoping that there will be more money in the budget for it next year.

I'm also wondering if we'll see the Stadium Interchange get reconstructed soon.

[DaBigE]

I'm also wondering if we'll see the Stadium Interchange get reconstructed soon.

Since many of the recent political races seemed to highlight a need to "share the construction wealth" with other parts of the state, I doubt we'll get more than spot repairs/pavement rehab in the next 5-10 years. The project website paints a bleaker picture, with a notice that the project is on hold "until further notice". I highly doubt they'd spend money to upgrade the Stadium Interchange without being able to improve the system approaches.

This is where the planning process left off, as far as I can find: Preferred Alternative, Other Considered Options

[The Ghostbuster]

I wonder if city leaders lobbied to have this segment's proposed reconstruction postponed because it would widen Interstate 94 to eight lanes, which the city does not want to happpen.

[SEWIGuy]

WIDOT pulled it because it was going to cost $1B and the state doesn't have the money.  And yes the City has been lukewarm on the project, wanting reconstruction without widening. 

[dvferyance]

Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.

[GeekJedi]

Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.

Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.

[triplemultiplex]

Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.

Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.

Important to note those are two separate Norquist ideas there.
The one idea to reroute 94 over 894 was a brainstorm about trying to reduce traffic on the East-West Freeway west of the Zoo Interchange.  It was poorly thought out since thru traffic already uses 894 exclusively.  But it should not be mistaken as a serious proposal that a government entity spent time and money investigating. 

Tearing down 794 between the Marquette and Lake Interchanges was slightly more serious (though not really at WisDOT).  That at least had some merit.  Most traffic is going to-from downtown and not through it so it would not have been the end of the world for the freeway to end west of the Milwaukee River and have the Hoan dump out directly onto Lincoln Memorial Drive.  The time savings versus the real estate consumed by I-794 made it viable in my opinion.  Norquist was riding high off of the successful teardown of the Park East stub, but there wasn't the momentum to repeat the endeavor at 794.

I remember this debate going on back in the early 00's because it would affect how WisDOT would rebuild the Marquette and how much that rebuild would cost.  I sometimes wonder how much further west and south from the core they could've rebuilt for the same price ($810 million) if they had decided to axe the E-W portion of 794.  I suspect one could've had a modern 8-lane I-94 out to the Stadium Interchange for the same budget with four fewer high-speed ramps to build (really, its 5 because of the Plankinton Ave connection from the south)

As I've stated before, the Park East teardown was ultimately successful, it just took longer than everyone wanted to get the infill.  The bureaucracy of city and county government got in its own way for a time.  I think the teardown was key in the eventual building boom/gentrification surge northwest of the downtown core.  From personal experience, I used McKinley Ave for several years on the reg and the surface street was perfectly fine to get me where I was going.  Not to mention how much money Wisconsin saved not having to rebuild a second system interchange as part of the Marquette project.

The highway side won all the battles about I-794.  It's all been refurbished and redecked recently so that is what Milwaukee is going to have for another 30-40 years.

[SEWIGuy]

And having a "boulevard" in place of I-794 would have created a more seamless flow between downtown and the 3rd Ward.  Right now that highway serves as a barrier.  The traffic would not have been terrible as triple mentions, and I'm sure it could have been made "pedestrian friendly" using modern design. 

[mgk920]

And having a "boulevard" in place of I-794 would have created a more seamless flow between downtown and the 3rd Ward.  Right now that highway serves as a barrier.  The traffic would not have been terrible as triple mentions, and I'm sure it could have been made "pedestrian friendly" using modern design.

I was walking around in that part of downtown Milwaukee a couple of weeks ago, mainly to check out the new tram line, but also just to check the area out.  I did notice that a significant amount of Millennial gentrification has been taking place in the area around St Paul Ave by the river and that the area does appear to be doing a pretty decent job of integrating the freeway structure into that whole scene.

I also note that I can very well sense that the area along St Paul Ave from the Intermodal Station (Amtrak 'MKE') westward towards I-94/27th St and the Canal St area from there towards Miller Park is perfectly poised to be the next 'frontier' for serious Millennial attention.

(BTW, right now I'd give the city's nascent tram system (called 'The Hop') a grade of 'C'.  I thought that the vehicles were stiff and harsh riding and a bit noisy on the inside.  We'll see more on how things go with it once potential system extensions are developed.)

Mike

[SEWIGuy]

My guess is the next round of gentrification will happen more around the area of the new arena - Fiserv Forum.

[dvferyance]

Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.

Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.

Right which would have been a horrible idea. My point is however because Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway leadership is why expansion has taken place farther out of the city but not in the city itself.

[mgk920]

Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.

Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.

Right which would have been a horrible idea. My point is however because Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway leadership is why expansion has taken place farther out of the city but not in the city itself.

A tangent, but this is yet another reason why, IMHO, one of the best things that could possibly happen to the Milwaukee metro area would be for a way to be found to allow the suburbanites to vote in elections for mayor and city council.

Mike

[GeekJedi]

Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.

Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.

Right which would have been a horrible idea. My point is however because Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway leadership is why expansion has taken place farther out of the city but not in the city itself.

A tangent, but this is yet another reason why, IMHO, one of the best things that could possibly happen to the Milwaukee metro area would be for a way to be found to allow the suburbanites to vote in elections for mayor and city council.

Mike

Sure. Just as long as Milwaukeeans can vote for Suburban mayors and council members.

[mgk920]

Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.

Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.

Right which would have been a horrible idea. My point is however because Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway leadership is why expansion has taken place farther out of the city but not in the city itself.

A tangent, but this is yet another reason why, IMHO, one of the best things that could possibly happen to the Milwaukee metro area would be for a way to be found to allow the suburbanites to vote in elections for mayor and city council.

Mike

Sure. Just as long as Milwaukeeans can vote for Suburban mayors and council members.

An amalgamated city of about 1.3 million population?  (Note, the current suburbanites would then control such a city council and mayor's office.)





Mike

[SEWIGuy]

Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.

Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.

Right which would have been a horrible idea. My point is however because Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway leadership is why expansion has taken place farther out of the city but not in the city itself.

A tangent, but this is yet another reason why, IMHO, one of the best things that could possibly happen to the Milwaukee metro area would be for a way to be found to allow the suburbanites to vote in elections for mayor and city council.

Mike

So you either believe that Milwaukeans are too dumb to vote for the people who best represents their interests, or that Milwaukee exists for the benefit of the people who don't live in the city.  Yeah I am being hyperbolic but it's not really all that difficult to see why they take the stances they do.

[mgk920]

Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway mayors. Norquist was big into getting rid of freeways all together not just against expanding them.

Yeah - he was the one who wanted 94 routed around 894 and turn 794 into a boulevard, if I remember right.

Right which would have been a horrible idea. My point is however because Milwaukee has had a lot of anti freeway leadership is why expansion has taken place farther out of the city but not in the city itself.

A tangent, but this is yet another reason why, IMHO, one of the best things that could possibly happen to the Milwaukee metro area would be for a way to be found to allow the suburbanites to vote in elections for mayor and city council.

Mike

So you either believe that Milwaukeans are too dumb to vote for the people who best represents their interests, or that Milwaukee exists for the benefit of the people who don't live in the city.  Yeah I am being hyperbolic but it's not really all that difficult to see why they take the stances they do.

To me, the observations from the 'outside' tell me that the vast majority of those who actually give a rip about what goes on in the city are unable to do anything about it because they are ineligible to vote in elections for mayor and city council due to their not living in the city.

That then begs the question of 'How different would the city be today if all of the residents of the metro area COULD vote in those elections, had the entire metro area been defined as being IN the city?'.



Mike