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Milwaukee area freeways

Started by triplemultiplex, February 22, 2011, 03:58:28 PM

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SSOWorld

Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.


mgk920

Quote from: nwi_navigator_1181 on August 01, 2012, 10:25:46 PM
So I take it they're doing the expansion in portions versus doing it all at once, like what ISHTA did to the Tri-State Tollway (construction zones in areas where the road is not four lanes in each direction, with stretches up to 30 miles)? I was last in Kenosha in 2008, when the Tri-State reconstruction was in full swing...kinda nightmarish.

As for the Mitchell Interchange tunnels, I will definitely give them a try as I head into the city. Thanks for the tips!

What happened is that until the early 2000s, the money was earmarked for rebuilding the Zoo Interchange in Milwaukee.  Then when Jim Doyle took office as Governor in early 2003, for various political reasons, that money was pulled from the Zoo Interchange and redirected towards I-94 from Milwaukee to the Illinois state line.  Then, late in Doyle's second term, WisDOT had to begin doing emergency repairs and replacements on several of the Zoo's bridges.  Scott Walker then took office as Governor in early 2011 and one of the first things that he did was to pull the unused money from I-94, allowing the under-construction parts to continue until they were completed, redirecting it back to the much more critical Zoo.

Once the Zoo and a couple of other 'big shovel' projects elsewhere in the state are complete, work will resume on I-94.

I agree with that move in that even though the yet to be done parts of I-94 are threadbare and long overdue for full top-to-bottom reconstruction and upgrading to eight lanes, it is still functioning in adequate safety and capacity while the Zoo is in dire condition, with an ongoing failure threat that could well affect the economy of much of the state north of Milwaukee, including here in Appleton.

Mike

merrycilantro

Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 31, 2012, 05:46:50 PM
The area of this project will have to address one of Milwaukee's crappiest bottlenecks; the transition from 3 lanes to 2 NB at Silver Spring Dr.  This could get interesting because rich suburban NIMBY's in these wealthy north shore suburbs have successfully killed expansions in the past.  I think there was/is even a state law that supposedly would prevent expansion through this area.
But it is needed badly.  I avoid rush hour(s) up there whenever possible.  Not only are there capacity issues, but around Good Hope Road it is the shittiest excuse for a freeway in this region.  Everything is severely deficient; sightlines, drainage, bridge clearances, shoulders; it's like your car turned into a Delorean with a flux capacitor and took you back to 1955.

And from the sounds of it, Highway 41 is supposed to become an Auxiliary/Spur to THAT???!!??! I used to live down there, and travel up I-43 frequently enough to know that 41 is far more superior in design and maintenance than I-43, and they want to make 41 into a step lower than that mess. It's just ironic, IMHO. That's all.

triplemultiplex

Quote from: merrycilantro on August 02, 2012, 09:04:48 AM
And from the sounds of it, Highway 41 is supposed to become an Auxiliary/Spur to THAT???!!??! I used to live down there, and travel up I-43 frequently enough to know that 41 is far more superior in design and maintenance than I-43, and they want to make 41 into a step lower than that mess. It's just ironic, IMHO. That's all.

Well nothing is going to physically change on the Zoo Freeway Corridor with the new interstate designation.  Even if we get stuck with a 3di, that's not going to change what US 41/45 looks like through Milwaukee.  The Zoo Interchange rebuild is happening independent of the new interstate and will be a serious improvement.

The Zoo Freeway is much better than I-43 in its study area because it's 20 years newer.  I-43 was built in the 50's (as US 141); the Zoo Freeway was built in the early 70's.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

hobsini2

I thought the Zoo was older than that. Certainly the way it is designed with the narrow left shoulders and tight exit ramps would lead me to think that.  Still kind of wished the Stadium Freeway was built the way it was supposed to be between I-894 and Fond du Lac Ave. At least the Parkway south of National to Oklahoma is decently built as an alternate to 94 after Brewers games.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

mgk920

I thought that US 45 and I-894 was built in the mid to late 1960s.

Mike

triplemultiplex

Yeah I guess I was off on that.  I thought I remembered that it wasn't done until after 1970, but I was mistaken.  That's what happens when you try and go from memory instead of looking shit up.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

triplemultiplex

I went to the Glendale PIM for the start of the study on I-43 between Silver Spring Dr. and WI 60 this week.  It reminded me of a similar one I attended years ago at the onset of the Zoo Interchange study/project.  WisDOT was soliciting input on various issues associated with the corridor and I was happy to provide mine.

I pitched the engineers some ideas about Brown Deer Rd and nearby Port Washington Rd interchanges.  They seemed eager to want to fix all of the deficiencies in the area of Good Hope Rd.  A decision on expansion will depend on the outcome of a traffic forecast for 2040 currently underway, but given the performance of this freeway today, it seems inevitable that the study area will be expanded to 6 lanes.  Any construction won't start until 2019 under WisDOT's current timetable.

Most Wisconsin roadgeeks probably know that WisDOT is thinking of adding an interchange to I-43 at Highland Rd so that would be part of this project.  A Highland Rd interchange would better serve a hospital and Concordia University not to mention Highland's crossing of the Milwaukee River.  It might involve some interesting engineering for NB ramps due to the proximity of a UP rail line.

The only other interesting thing I picked up at this PIM is the likelihood of a change in pedestrian access at one point.  Currently, a glorified culvert pipe connects Nicolet High School to an athletic field across the freeway.  Already it seems likely that this will be replaced with a pedestrian overpass both to mitigate safety concerns people have about the 'tunnel' with respect to crime and provide a flatter elevation for I-43 approaching the overpasses at Greentree Rd and Good Hope Rd.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

triplemultiplex

Just a couple weeks later and I'm reporting on the next Milwaukee area freeway PIM.

This time, it's I-94 between 25th Street and 70th Street including the Stadium Interchange.  Same deal as the last one I went to for I-43; the study is just getting going, and WisDOT is soliciting input from the public.  The study area covers the stretch of I-94 between the part rebuilt with the Marquette Interchange and the part that's about to be rebuilt with the Zoo Interchange.  This freeway has a LOT of issues with capacity, geometry, integrity of structures, interchange spacing, left exits and r/w constraints.

I'll start with the cemeteries west of Miller Park.  Here the freeway slices between 3 different cemeteries and there is no room for additional r/w.  Expanding I-94 to 8 lanes would probably get kind of tight through here.  But due to the very short distance between the Hawley Rd and Mitchell Blvd exits, one would ideally like to have auxillary or even c/d lanes.  Double decking of this segment is being considered.  I offered the engineers my vision of accomplishing this by lowering the grade of one carriageway rather than raising one carriageway in order to mollify neighborhood objection to having a towering viaduct through here.  This necessitates the change in grade separation at Hawley Rd and Mitchell Blvd that were part of my Stadium Interchange rebuild in "Redesigning Interchanges"
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3618.msg94446;topicseen#msg94446

I also presented my volleyball roundabout concept for the Stadium Interchange itself.  They thought it was an interesting idea and acknowledged the possibility of "downgrading" this system interchange given the dead end nature of the Stadium Freeway/Miller Park Way.  They had ADT data for this interchange on displays, but I'm no engineer and I don't know what the cutoffs are regarding what should be done with an interchange.  All ramp movements were around 7 or 8 thousand ADT except for WB->NB and SB->EB which were up around 13,000 ADT.

The close spacing of interchanges in this study area seems to be an area of particular concern for WisDOT.  Every engineer I spoke to brought it up.  I think they are considering eliminating at least one interchange.  The most likely candidate is Mitchell Blvd given its light usage on non-game days and nearness to adjacent interchanges.  One engineer seemed to indicate that turning Mitchell Blvd into an "event only" interchange is an option to be considered.  To me, that means a half interchange to/from the west only.
When I mentioned to an engineer that I use the WB exit at 25th Street to get to Miller Park on game days, he indicated that was something I should definitely mention in my comments.  This leads me to believe WisDOT might consider changing this access.  There is a lot of room for improvement (metaphorically, not physically) in this area of St. Paul Ave and 27th St. As it stands though, 25th Street provides great access between Canal Street and I-94 east and therefore, the Marquette Interchange.

Construction on this area is tentatively scheduled to start in 2019; same as I-43 in the northern suburbs.  Given recent history, it seems likely that one of these two projects will get bumped up or back due to funding access.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

Jordanah1

i think that if the stadium interchange were to be downgraded, the movements to and from miller park way should remain freeflow, in order to keep the flow of event traffic flowing smoothly. i proposed something in the redesigning interchanges as well for the whole coridor, focusing around the stadium interchange. i think that having good access, that will not back up onto the I94 mainline is important, as i have seen such backups everytime i have been to a brewer game.
"Oshkosh"- "Oh, you mean like 'Oshkosh BGosh'?"

colinstu

#60
I like the idea of the Mitchell Interchange going away. It's really tight there with Hawley, but provides very different access (darn cemeteries create quite a shield from the park and Hawley).

I'm wishy washy on the Stadium Interchange situation. Part of me wants to downgrade it, part of me wants to upgrade it, and part wants me want a mix of the two (all three of these are removing left-hand merges onto 94. screw that). We already have meters on all the ramps that lead to I94, so it's not 100% free flow (well, during rush hour anyway. off peak times the meters are off).

A full-sized interchange isn't really warranted, Miller Park Way only goes to National Ave and Miller park's parking lots and 41 just takes you to the north side. Besides game days (which are always gonna cause traffic. it's reality. shoving THAT many cars during one time through the possible space we have... yeah) using baseball games as an excuse to build build build is just a waste of money 80% of the time. Sure it will also help out with higher traffic volumes in the future too... yeah I got nothing else to add here.

I don't see a volleyball roundabout happening ever. I'm not saying it's not a good idea or anything, but there isn't a single one in the US that I can think of, and I doubt it's gonna change. I don't even think Wisconsin has any DDIs or SPUIs... let alone a foreign major interchange design ever happening.

I wonder what they're going to do during the research phase of this study. I'd love to see what happens when a number of ramps are closed down. Particularly if the N->W and S->E movements were closed. Those I find to be fairly bad on slowing down 94. Temporarily blocking any left-hand exit/entrances to Gen Mitchell Blvd would also be a part of this experiment.

I also find the 27th-25th st situation to be quite annoying. Exiting from WB 94 onto 25th st sucks either way right now. If you go south, you're stuck at several red lights every time, and if you go north a little and west... again more north-side traffic and stuff. I'd love for all those 4+ intersections to be simplified into something that can much more efficiently move cars to where they really wanna go.

The "27th St" entrance ramp to WB94 is also incredibly too close to the traffic exiting onto 35th st. I always see bad weaving here that slows everyone down (and I commonly find myself to be a part of this weaving). I use quotes around 27th St because it's more like 28.5th street... that power substation is in the darn way. And even if it wasn't in the way, it would create a 5-way intersection between 27th and St Paul... yuck. Again, like I said earlier... something major needs to be figured out there. Just making streets cross each other isn't going to be a solution.

SSOWorld

Quote from: colinstu on August 22, 2012, 03:16:30 AM
I like the idea of the Mitchell Interchange going away. It's really tight there with Hawley, but provides very different access (darn cemeteries create quite a shield from the park and Hawley).
If the Mitchell Interchange goes away how can traffic get to Chicago?


oh wait...

You mean Mitchell Blvd  :-D
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

colinstu

Quote from: Master son on August 22, 2012, 06:21:54 AM
Quote from: colinstu on August 22, 2012, 03:16:30 AM
I like the idea of the Mitchell Interchange going away. It's really tight there with Hawley, but provides very different access (darn cemeteries create quite a shield from the park and Hawley).
If the Mitchell Interchange goes away how can traffic get to Chicago?


oh wait...

You mean Mitchell Blvd  :-D

Triple said "Mitchell Blvd into an "event only" interchange".... I just dropped a few words.  :P

DaBigE

Quote from: colinstu on August 22, 2012, 03:16:30 AM
...I don't even think Wisconsin has any DDIs or SPUIs... let alone a foreign major interchange design ever happening....

Wisconsin has at least one SPUI, and it's in Eau Claire. There are rumors that at least one may be constructed in the Fox Valley in the not too distant future as well.
"We gotta find this road, it's like Bob's road!" - Rabbit, Twister

mgk920

Quote from: DaBigE on August 22, 2012, 10:01:53 AM
Quote from: colinstu on August 22, 2012, 03:16:30 AM
...I don't even think Wisconsin has any DDIs or SPUIs... let alone a foreign major interchange design ever happening....

Wisconsin has at least one SPUI, and it's in Eau Claire. There are rumors that at least one may be constructed in the Fox Valley in the not too distant future as well.

None that I know of are coming up here, although WisDOT was considering using that design at US 41 (I-xx)/9th Ave in Oshkosh and at US 41 (I-xx)/Breezewood-Bell in Neenah before going with the roundabouts in US 41 (I-xx)'s current rebuild.

Mike

Jordanah1

Quote from: mgk920 on August 22, 2012, 10:36:18 AM
Quote from: DaBigE on August 22, 2012, 10:01:53 AM
Quote from: colinstu on August 22, 2012, 03:16:30 AM
...I don't even think Wisconsin has any DDIs or SPUIs... let alone a foreign major interchange design ever happening....

Wisconsin has at least one SPUI, and it's in Eau Claire. There are rumors that at least one may be constructed in the Fox Valley in the not too distant future as well.

None that I know of are coming up here, although WisDOT was considering using that design at US 41 (I-xx)/9th Ave in Oshkosh and at US 41 (I-xx)/Breezewood-Bell in Neenah before going with the roundabouts in US 41 (I-xx)'s current rebuild.

Mike
i hadn'd heard about that.
they are going to build a SPUI in madison at Verona Rd.
i think a SPUI at college ave. and Wisconsin ave. in appleton(grand chute) would be really nice. the confined spaces and heavy traffic would warant a SPUI over a diamond with lights in my opinion. johnson St. in Fond du Lac would be another good one.
"Oshkosh"- "Oh, you mean like 'Oshkosh BGosh'?"

DaBigE

#66
Quote from: mgk920 on August 22, 2012, 10:36:18 AM
Quote from: DaBigE on August 22, 2012, 10:01:53 AM
Quote from: colinstu on August 22, 2012, 03:16:30 AM
...I don't even think Wisconsin has any DDIs or SPUIs... let alone a foreign major interchange design ever happening....

Wisconsin has at least one SPUI, and it's in Eau Claire. There are rumors that at least one may be constructed in the Fox Valley in the not too distant future as well.

None that I know of are coming up here, although WisDOT was considering using that design at US 41 (I-xx)/9th Ave in Oshkosh and at US 41 (I-xx)/Breezewood-Bell in Neenah before going with the roundabouts in US 41 (I-xx)'s current rebuild.

Mike

The one that I had heard of was associated with the 441 rebuild; it was one of the options under consideration for one or couple of the redesigned interchanges (Oneida St was one of them if I recall correctly). The latest (updated in April of 2012) preferred alternatives only show roundabouts and revised signals, but I've heard there has been quite a bit of back-and-forth going on regarding what configuration flows best.
"We gotta find this road, it's like Bob's road!" - Rabbit, Twister

colinstu

Thanks for sharing that Eau Claire spui, good to know!

triplemultiplex

Quote from: colinstu on August 22, 2012, 03:16:30 AM
I don't see a volleyball roundabout happening ever. I'm not saying it's not a good idea or anything, but there isn't a single one in the US that I can think of, and I doubt it's gonna change. I don't even think Wisconsin has any DDIs or SPUIs... let alone a foreign major interchange design ever happening.

Airline Hwy and Causeway Blvd in New Orleans:
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=29.97410,-90.15557&z=16&t=S

I like it because it's a nice compromise between free-flow access and cost.  It'll be way cheaper than a full semi-directional stack or other free flow interchange and move traffic more effectively than something like a SPUI or a tight diamond ala the old Hillside Interchange on I-43 at Fondy/McKinley.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

colinstu

Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 22, 2012, 05:43:14 PM
Airline Hwy and Causeway Blvd in New Orleans:
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=29.97410,-90.15557&z=16&t=S

Neato the US does have one!

My Dad was overlooking my laptop screen when I was looking at that. He right away said that having one of those in the snow would be annoying... which I didn't think about. Ice+snow sounds like really low speed and skidding to me. Couple that with people needing to yield? Sounds like a hellacious jam when people are trying to leave the park.

:shrug:

SSOWorld

The SPUI in Madison is part of what may be a fading idea to put a fly-under freeway for US 151 to join the Beltline at.  WisDOT is starting to shy away from the flyunder, but the SPUI construction will go on as planned - 2014-2016 is the target time frame for construction.  I think Eau Claire has the only SPUI in the state.

Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin.  GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

DaBigE

Quote from: Master son on August 22, 2012, 07:49:56 PM
...Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin.  GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!

Get ready to feel sicker, as r :spin: undabouts aren't going away anytime soon. :nod:
"We gotta find this road, it's like Bob's road!" - Rabbit, Twister

Jordanah1

Quote from: DaBigE on August 22, 2012, 08:01:43 PM
Quote from: Master son on August 22, 2012, 07:49:56 PM
...Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin.  GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!

Get ready to feel sicker, as r :spin: undabouts aren't going away anytime soon. :nod:
its not that i have anything against roundabouts at busy ramp terminals, i love them, but in tight diamond situations with little room for expansion were traffic is very heavy (such as at college ave. and wisconsin ave. (grand chute) or johnson st. (fond du lac) you have no room to build roundabouts, and their proximity to eachother would make them backup into eachother, a SPUI or DDI would then be the logical choice over having very congested light cycles. u
"Oshkosh"- "Oh, you mean like 'Oshkosh BGosh'?"

JREwing78

Quote from: Master son on August 22, 2012, 07:49:56 PM
The SPUI in Madison is part of what may be a fading idea to put a fly-under freeway for US 151 to join the Beltline at.  WisDOT is starting to shy away from the flyunder, but the SPUI construction will go on as planned - 2014-2016 is the target time frame for construction.  I think Eau Claire has the only SPUI in the state.

Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin.  GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!

The official word is that they're not going to implement the fly-under for the next 20 years or so, until the SPUI interchange becomes overwhelmed. It's kind of a tricky location to do one, and it'll require a considerable amount of land acquisition.

Quote from: Jordanah1 on August 22, 2012, 08:28:50 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on August 22, 2012, 08:01:43 PM
Quote from: Master son on August 22, 2012, 07:49:56 PM
...Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin.  GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!

Get ready to feel sicker, as r :spin: undabouts aren't going away anytime soon. :nod:
its not that i have anything against roundabouts at busy ramp terminals, i love them, but in tight diamond situations with little room for expansion were traffic is very heavy (such as at college ave. and wisconsin ave. (grand chute) or johnson st. (fond du lac) you have no room to build roundabouts, and their proximity to eachother would make them backup into eachother, a SPUI or DDI would then be the logical choice over having very congested light cycles. u

Seems to work fine for the Lee Rd interchange on US-23 in Brighton, MI (where there's three roundabouts short-spaced together) - http://goo.gl/maps/x1uuG

Jordanah1

Quote from: JREwing78 on August 23, 2012, 08:21:09 AM
Quote from: Master son on August 22, 2012, 07:49:56 PM
The SPUI in Madison is part of what may be a fading idea to put a fly-under freeway for US 151 to join the Beltline at.  WisDOT is starting to shy away from the flyunder, but the SPUI construction will go on as planned - 2014-2016 is the target time frame for construction.  I think Eau Claire has the only SPUI in the state.

Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin.  GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!

The official word is that they're not going to implement the fly-under for the next 20 years or so, until the SPUI interchange becomes overwhelmed. It's kind of a tricky location to do one, and it'll require a considerable amount of land acquisition.

Quote from: Jordanah1 on August 22, 2012, 08:28:50 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on August 22, 2012, 08:01:43 PM
Quote from: Master son on August 22, 2012, 07:49:56 PM
...Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin.  GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!

Get ready to feel sicker, as r :spin: undabouts aren't going away anytime soon. :nod:
its not that i have anything against roundabouts at busy ramp terminals, i love them, but in tight diamond situations with little room for expansion were traffic is very heavy (such as at college ave. and wisconsin ave. (grand chute) or johnson st. (fond du lac) you have no room to build roundabouts, and their proximity to eachother would make them backup into eachother, a SPUI or DDI would then be the logical choice over having very congested light cycles. u

Seems to work fine for the Lee Rd interchange on US-23 in Brighton, MI (where there's three roundabouts short-spaced together) - http://goo.gl/maps/x1uuG
there doesnt seem to be tremendous amounts of traffic there. im talking about interchanges handling 20,000-30,000 through vehicles a day, and 7,000-13,000 vehicles a day on most of the ramps. i would never build roundabouts that close to eachother, thats too close unless traffic is low enough.
"Oshkosh"- "Oh, you mean like 'Oshkosh BGosh'?"



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