Milwaukee area freeways

[mgk920]

The SPUI in Madison is part of what may be a fading idea to put a fly-under freeway for US 151 to join the Beltline at.  WisDOT is starting to shy away from the flyunder, but the SPUI construction will go on as planned - 2014-2016 is the target time frame for construction.  I think Eau Claire has the only SPUI in the state.

Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin.  GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!

The official word is that they're not going to implement the fly-under for the next 20 years or so, until the SPUI interchange becomes overwhelmed. It's kind of a tricky location to do one, and it'll require a considerable amount of land acquisition.

I wish that WisDOT would 'bite the bullet' on that one now, rather than later, too.

...Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin.  GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!

Get ready to feel sicker, as r undabouts aren't going away anytime soon.

its not that i have anything against roundabouts at busy ramp terminals, i love them, but in tight diamond situations with little room for expansion were traffic is very heavy (such as at college ave. and wisconsin ave. (grand chute) or johnson st. (fond du lac) you have no room to build roundabouts, and their proximity to eachother would make them backup into eachother, a SPUI or DDI would then be the logical choice over having very congested light cycles. u

Seems to work fine for the Lee Rd interchange on US-23 in Brighton, MI (where there's three roundabouts short-spaced together) - http://goo.gl/maps/x1uuG

Actually, there is OODLES of room for roundabouts at US 41(I-xx)/WI 125 (College Ave), including at the major intersections to its west.  I'm kind of surprised that WisDOT didn't do that when they redid the ramps there, adding lanes, last year.

I have pondered both 'dogbone' roundabouts and a SPUI at US 41(I-xx)/WI 96 (Wisconsin Ave), too, but there really isn't much that can be done there without turning it into a 'big shovel' project.  WisDOT would have to dig out and replace the entire 1991 six-lane overpass to redo it as a SPUI and there is no room there for a 'dogbone' without acquiring ROW in that tight location.

When WisDOT was pondering the current six-lane freeway back in the late 1980s (built 1991-1992), they wanted to eliminate that interchange entirely.  Had that work been done now (with the pending interstate promotion) rather than back then, AASHTO may well have ordered that interchange closed rather than rebuilt due to 'interstate' standards regarding interchange spacing.

Mike

[Jordanah1]

if i were to redo that area right now (if traffic was suddenly overwelming the area) i think i would add an auxilary lane from the HWY BB on ramp and have it diverge as a C/D lane, with the college ave. and Wisconsin ave. ramps entering/exiting the C/D lanes. the c/d lanes would rejoin the through lanes of US41, and would be an exit only lane at HWY OO/15 with 6 lanes continuing. i assume WISDOT is starting to think about studying expanding US41 on the north side of appleton/fox valley to six lanes. the wisconsin ave. interchange would be a SPUI, and the college ave interchange would be a dogbone roundabout. add a roundabout at college ave.-mall dr./nicolet rd. and at college ave.-casaloma dr. i also think a roundabout at the multilane four way stop at spencer st.- nicolet dr. would be nice.

[gbgoose]

if i were to redo that area right now (if traffic was suddenly overwelming the area) i think i would add an auxilary lane from the HWY BB on ramp and have it diverge as a C/D lane, with the college ave. and Wisconsin ave. ramps entering/exiting the C/D lanes. the c/d lanes would rejoin the through lanes of US41, and would be an exit only lane at HWY OO/15 with 6 lanes continuing. i assume WISDOT is starting to think about studying expanding US41 on the north side of appleton/fox valley to six lanes. the wisconsin ave. interchange would be a SPUI, and the college ave interchange would be a dogbone roundabout. add a roundabout at college ave.-mall dr./nicolet rd. and at college ave.-casaloma dr. i also think a roundabout at the multilane four way stop at spencer st.- nicolet dr. would be nice.

Honestly - the DOT should look at expanding 41 to 6 lanes from Appleton to De Pere down the road.  There is enough traffic between the two areas to support 6 lanes now.  At least do a study on the area on the number of cars from 15/OO to where the Green Bay expansion starts just south of Scheuring Rd.   

[Jordanah1]

i was coming back from michigan before the packer pre season game a few weeks ago, and obviously there will be congestion, but i didnt expect to see as much as i saw. near lambeau there was a small backup, and in the de pere area there was a mile or 2 long backup just from the construction slowdown, then there was a car pulled over causing a 4-5mile backup too kakauna, and an accident in the median of US41 near little chute had traffic backed up too HWY OO/15 then there was the typical backups in the neenah and oshkosh construction zones. it was a perfect storm of rush hour, packer game, construction, and accidents/pulled over vehicles to create a nearly 50 mile long parkinglot that is Northbound US41. now obviously this isnt an everyday occurance but rather a 'perfect storm', but it highlights the deficiencies of the 4lane section of US41.

[mgk920]

i was coming back from michigan before the packer pre season game a few weeks ago, and obviously there will be congestion, but i didnt expect to see as much as i saw. near lambeau there was a small backup, and in the de pere area there was a mile or 2 long backup just from the construction slowdown, then there was a car pulled over causing a 4-5mile backup too kakauna, and an accident in the median of US41 near little chute had traffic backed up too HWY OO/15 then there was the typical backups in the neenah and oshkosh construction zones. it was a perfect storm of rush hour, packer game, construction, and accidents/pulled over vehicles to create a nearly 50 mile long parkinglot that is Northbound US41. now obviously this isnt an everyday occurance but rather a 'perfect storm', but it highlights the deficiencies of the 4lane section of US41.

When I go to Packer games (my family has sat in two of the very best seats anywhere in the NFL for 50 seasons now), if I see that Green Bay bound US 41(I-xx) is not flowing freely, I'll not enter the freeway and instead take County 'E' northeast to WI 172, then WI 172 east to the stadium area.  It's a backroads 'safety valve' routing that'll blow by a lot of traffic hassles.  The new roundabout at WI 54/172/County 'E' makes that even easier.

I'll also not hesitate to bail off of US 41(I-xx) if the Green Bay bound going starts tightening up and again take backroads that are well-known to me.



Mike

[triplemultiplex]

My Dad was overlooking my laptop screen when I was looking at that. He right away said that having one of those in the snow would be annoying... which I didn't think about. Ice+snow sounds like really low speed and skidding to me. Couple that with people needing to yield? Sounds like a hellacious jam when people are trying to leave the park.

It'll be no more treacherous than every other road in Wisconsin when it snows.

Brewer games are the reason I added the NB-WB 'fly-under' to my design as post-game traffic is worse than pregame traffic with a few exceptions (opening day, pennant race games, playoff games; of course it doesn't seem likely that we'll have to worry about the latter 2 for the next few years at least. )  (Ah, I'm just being pessimistic right now.)

Most Brewer traffic is coming from the west and would not be using the roundabout before games.  Then they use the fly-under on their way out.  WB-SB might back up a bit before some games, but that's what you get for not using Canal Street to get to the stadium from the east, you dummies!
I usually don't have problems leaving Miller Park after games due to three words: post-game tailgate.  Crack a beer (or something else if you're driving), eat that left over brat and shoot the shit until traffic clears up.  That's how I've always done it after Packer games, too.

[triplemultiplex]

Good news, everyone!
The Mitchell Interchange is done:
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_3718.html_786229440.html


Elsewhere in MKE, WisDOT is going to wedge in a fourth lane on WB I-94 coming out of the Marquette Interchange this spring.  Earlier this year they restriped the lanes coming together WB so the ramps from 43, 94 and 794 each lose one lane.  And while it loosened up traffic coming in from 43 and 94, the loss of that second WB thru lane on 794 has been causing some pretty shitty backups for evening commuters.  So they're going to hit CTRL-Z on that.

Now the solution is to basically do what was originally planned for 94 WB during the Marquette rebuild before the western limits were shrunk back.  Except now they have to utilize the existing space under the overpasses to extend that 4th lane to 35th St., so goodbye shoulders.  It will have to be enough to get the highway to its major ~2019 rebuild.

Once complete, WB 94 will function the way it should have for the last 7 years.  (Well, sort of; those crummy sightlines under 25th St will still be there and I'm pretty sure the pre-scaled-back Marquette rebuild would've fixed that.)

[colinstu]

Elsewhere in MKE, WisDOT is going to wedge in a fourth lane on WB I-94 coming out of the Marquette Interchange this spring.  Earlier this year they restriped the lanes coming together WB so the ramps from 43, 94 and 794 each lose one lane.  And while it loosened up traffic coming in from 43 and 94, the loss of that second WB thru lane on 794 has been causing some pretty shitty backups for evening commuters.  So they're going to hit CTRL-Z on that.

Now the solution is to basically do what was originally planned for 94 WB during the Marquette rebuild before the western limits were shrunk back.  Except now they have to utilize the existing space under the overpasses to extend that 4th lane to 35th St., so goodbye shoulders.  It will have to be enough to get the highway to its major ~2019 rebuild.

Hey that re-striping worked out well for me! (coming from I-43... couldn't stand that bolus of west-bound 794/city traffic that screwed over 94 and 43. Many a day I found me and others using the shoulder to get around it and exit onto 25th st).

But having 4-lanes through here is perfect enough for now. I wonder if they will remove the bend they have through this section and make the 25th St exit straighter and closer to the retaining wall too (like they originally planned on). Because if they're going to do this through 35th St... they're really gonna need to redo everything shoulder-wise past 25th st... there's like a 6' shoulder and none in other parts.

Where did WisDOT say they were doing this (or planning on it)?

EDIT: Also. Anyone notice some random re-striping they've been doing? I-43 looks like it was diamond grinded in spots (like the curve) and striped again. The lines approaching the Marquette Interchange from the west were also very faint.. they've been painted again and much more visible.

[triplemultiplex]

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_3714.html_786229440.html

There was also an article in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal last week.

The new 794 lane configuration never gave me any problems due to my travel patterns.

[colinstu]

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_3714.html_786229440.html

There was also an article in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal last week.

The new 794 lane configuration never gave me any problems due to my travel patterns.

Hmm only 3 months for this to be constructed! Will be interesting to see developments.

[triplemultiplex]

Alternatives are now on the web for I-94 in and around the Stadium Interchange.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/94stadiumint/public.htm

Lots of options for double decking through the cemeteries west of Miller Park.
Someone on the team for this project must be lobbying pretty hard to eliminate the interchange at 35th Street, since that shows up a whole bunch.
Some of the alternatives around 27th Street call for shifting the mainline of I-94 to the south quite a bit.
I'm dubious that the Stadium Interchange itself will remain a full system interchange.  There isn't really the traffic to justify the expense of some of those stack alternatives.  Although there is a fairly tight and reasonable one inset on the "spot improvements" pdf.  That's about as high capacity as I would even consider.

So my picks are:
Volleyball SPUI for the Stadium Interchange
Elevated EB lanes double deck option thru the cemetery (4 EB lanes, 2 EB c/d lanes on top; 4 WB lanes, 2 WB c/d lanes underneath)
the c/d lanes option between Hawley and 68th
the braided ramps option for 35th & 27th and the version that keeps St. Paul Ave.

Although I could probably be talked into something that eliminates 35th St.

[GeekJedi]

I drive through the Stadium Interchange every day...and while there isn't a ton of traffic off-peak, there is a whole lot of it during peak hours.  It's not unusual to see traffic slow just south of 94 going into the National Ave intersection due to backups.  There's also often 10+ cars in queue in each lane at the ramp meters in the evening.  In short, I'd be against anything that isn't fairly free-flowing at that intersection.

[Revive 755]

I think the presence of the Modified Echelon Interchange alternative is proof the Wisconsin DOT has been smoking stuff lately.  They might as well go with a cloverleaf if they want weaving.  At least the cloverleaf would have the ramps on the right side of the road.

[colinstu]

I use the 35th st interchange nearly every day and so do lots of other people, I do not want to see it go away! Me being selfish or not, it's one of the primary connections between I-94 & northside+southside. (The other connections being 16th St, 27th St, and Miller Park Way (which mostly services that fringe West Allis Area and the northside and could be downgraded to a lesser priority interchange).

* For 35th & 27th st, I like the "Collector-Distributor (CD) Roads" solution the most. It removes that terrible curve I-94 currently has and handles those two exits PERFECTLY! Couldn't wish for any better.
The "Braided Ramps" solution would be my next pick. Again, addresses that I-94 curve a little and still remains full (and decently designed) access to those two streets.
The "split diamond" fix looks bad already. Split diamonds work with two cross roads, not FOUR of them! And lastly the "no 35th st" exit plain old sucks.

* For Hawley Rd & 68-70th St, all of them look acceptable to me. If I had to pic a favorite, it would probably have to be the "6 or 8 lanes mainline with adjacent 2-way arterial" option. Does away with the bulky loop ramps... just looks more pleasing.

* For the height of the double-decker section, I think the "Split the difference" would be the best compromise, with the "All Down" one being preferable. If it has to be "all up" I don't care.

* For the Stadium Interchange, obviously the "Full System - Stacked" one is my fav (except for the fact that they don't retain an exit to Wisconsin Ave), but it's really not needed as US45 is gimped compared to what it should've been. With that in mind, the rest of the ideas look pretty... decent. My next biggest favs are either of the SPUI designs, each of them having their own benefits and drawbacks. The "modified echelon" one doesn't make much sense to me... it looks downright dangerous.

Here's a high-res copy showing the three stitched together.


edit: at the very minimum, the spot improvement pdf gets a thumbs up.

[Alps]

Ooh, another offset SPUI!

[Jordanah1]

some of the ideas in there are strikingly similar to something i put in the redesigned interchanges page awhile ago regarding C/D setup and the double-decking. i made my stadium interchange freeflow, but added some loop ramps were i didnt think expensive flyovers were necessary. i think that there is enough peak traffic at the stadium interchange to warrant a freeflow interchange, not to mention event traffic from brewers games, i have been a part of a backup onto I94 everytime i have gone to a brewer game, and backups like those are dangerous.

[triplemultiplex]

The biggest problem with game day traffic is Mitchell Blvd and its stubby little left hand ramps that let traffic back up onto the freeway.  The left hand ramps are also the biggest problem with normal rush hours at the Stadium; you're getting squeezed by merging traffic from both sides.  I would say there's less traffic trying to get on 94 at the Stadium during a typical rush hour than there is trying to get on I-43 at McKinley/Fond du Lac where a tight diamond is adequate most of the time.
So I'd accept some serious downgrading of the Stadium, especially if it loosens the pucker on some bureaucrats' budgetary buttholes.  Then dump the savings into MCTS.

[Milwaukee, WY]

I'm personally a fan of the volleyball SPUI for the Stadium Interchange.  I realize that with the exception of peak times, the current interchange is vastly larger than what is needed (negating the need for what would admittedly be a pretty cool four-level stack), but I can't get behind downgrading 41 to an arterial.  It's currently one of the best ways to quickly get from the south side to the north side during rush hour.  The volleyball SPUI would operate much like the current interchange does, since they have the ramps metered anyway, but with the obvious improvement of feeding into the C/D roadway and no horrible left-hand entrances.  It looks like it would provide acceptable levels of service for the design year, too, so I'd like to see it move forward.

[Jordanah1]

I'm personally a fan of the volleyball SPUI for the Stadium Interchange.  I realize that with the exception of peak times, the current interchange is vastly larger than what is needed (negating the need for what would admittedly be a pretty cool four-level stack), but I can't get behind downgrading 41 to an arterial.  It's currently one of the best ways to quickly get from the south side to the north side during rush hour.  The volleyball SPUI would operate much like the current interchange does, since they have the ramps metered anyway, but with the obvious improvement of feeding into the C/D roadway and no horrible left-hand entrances.  It looks like it would provide acceptable levels of service for the design year, too, so I'd like to see it move forward.

with 4 through lanes and C/D lanes, would any of the ramps on this stretch be metered? not living in milwaukee im not all that familiar with when they are in use and when they are not, and i would assume that increased lane capacity would negate the need for metering, for at least the time being. i made all my designs for the area on the assumption that there would be no such metering with the increased capacity.

[Milwaukee, WY]

I'm personally a fan of the volleyball SPUI for the Stadium Interchange.  I realize that with the exception of peak times, the current interchange is vastly larger than what is needed (negating the need for what would admittedly be a pretty cool four-level stack), but I can't get behind downgrading 41 to an arterial.  It's currently one of the best ways to quickly get from the south side to the north side during rush hour.  The volleyball SPUI would operate much like the current interchange does, since they have the ramps metered anyway, but with the obvious improvement of feeding into the C/D roadway and no horrible left-hand entrances.  It looks like it would provide acceptable levels of service for the design year, too, so I'd like to see it move forward.

with 4 through lanes and C/D lanes, would any of the ramps on this stretch be metered? not living in milwaukee im not all that familiar with when they are in use and when they are not, and i would assume that increased lane capacity would negate the need for metering, for at least the time being. i made all my designs for the area on the assumption that there would be no such metering with the increased capacity.

It's entirely possible. The new Mitchell Interchange uses C/D roads and the ramps feeding them are still metered.  Granted, it's a stretch with fewer access points, but I think it's comparable to how they'd design the east-west stretch.  But then again, with all that added capacity, maybe not.  What I was initially referring to is the current Stadium Interchange has its free flow ramps metered, so having a stack interchange with the ramps flattened into a signalized intersection would pretty much operate the same as it does today. 

[triplemultiplex]

And we're off to the races with the Zoo Interchange project:
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_3793.html_786229440.html

Now technically the project's been underway for a year, but that was just boring stuff like reconstructing local streets and moving around utilities. The Greenfield Ave interchange is shutting down next week so its bridge can be rebuilt.  Now we're talkin'!

[on_wisconsin]

Looks like WisDOT will be continuing to use the cream and blue color theme with the new Zoo IC.

click to enlarge
capped from this: http://projects.511wi.gov/c/document_library/get_file?uuid=8e525968-e1c9-44fb-a259-980da662021b&groupId=15899

[colinstu]

Awesome... it's a nice theme. (and they've been using it at the Mitchell interchange, etc too)

[mgk920]

WisDOT has been using that light blue paint on steel bridge beams for as long as I can remember.  Several major bridges dating back to the mid-1970s here in the Appleton area have blue-painted steel, too.

Mike

[Milwaukee, WY]

The SPUI in Madison is part of what may be a fading idea to put a fly-under freeway for US 151 to join the Beltline at.  WisDOT is starting to shy away from the flyunder, but the SPUI construction will go on as planned - 2014-2016 is the target time frame for construction.  I think Eau Claire has the only SPUI in the state.

Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin.  GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!

I haven't seen it mentioned before, but the Teutonia Ave./Silver Spring Dr. interchange in Milwaukee was rebuilt as a SPUI a few years ago. It should be visible on Google maps by now.