Milwaukee area freeways

[colinstu]

The SPUI in Madison is part of what may be a fading idea to put a fly-under freeway for US 151 to join the Beltline at.  WisDOT is starting to shy away from the flyunder, but the SPUI construction will go on as planned - 2014-2016 is the target time frame for construction.  I think Eau Claire has the only SPUI in the state.

Oh - and I hope there will be more SPUIs in Wisconsin.  GOOD! I'm getting sick of roundabouts, U-Ramps and dumbbells!

I haven't seen it mentioned before, but the Teutonia Ave./Silver Spring Dr. interchange in Milwaukee was rebuilt as a SPUI a few years ago. It should be visible on Google maps by now.

Man I didn't even realize that was a SPUI!

[triplemultiplex]

New pavement and bridge decks this year for I-43/94 between Howard Ave and the Marquette Interchange.

http://projects.511wi.gov/web/i-43-bridges-project

Same deal as the last two years on I-94 between the Zoo and the Marquette in terms of what they're doing.  But this freeway will be getting it in both directions this year.  There will be extended lane and service ramp closures throughout the year.  So heads up for that.

I find it interesting that one of the redeckings will be the "High Rise Bridge" (I-43/94 over the Menomonee Valley).  This bridge was pretty much left as-is during the Marquette rebuild with new bridges built up against it where needed.  They probably should've taken advantage of that once-a-generation disruption to upgrade that bridge back then.  But they didn't, so here we are.

[colinstu]

Got a piece of mail talking about this last year. The page online has been around for awhile too.

They've been randomly paving some more asphalt over the few feet of shoulder that exist throughout this stretch for a few months.

Really wish they re-did the south-bound portion of the Marquette interchange. I43+I94+downtown Wisconsin Ave+I794 all merging together into basically 3 lanes (1 lane being an exit toward 6th St+National ave). That, plus poor geometry of the lines, how things merge, gore points, the incline, etc... what a mess.

[Big John]

New pavement and bridge decks this year for I-43/94 between Howard Ave and the Marquette Interchange.

http://projects.511wi.gov/web/i-43-bridges-project

Same deal as the last two years on I-94 between the Zoo and the Marquette in terms of what they're doing.  But this freeway will be getting it in both directions this year.  There will be extended lane and service ramp closures throughout the year.  So heads up for that.

I find it interesting that one of the redeckings will be the "High Rise Bridge" (I-43/94 over the Menomonee Valley).  This bridge was pretty much left as-is during the Marquette rebuild with new bridges built up against it where needed.  They probably should've taken advantage of that once-a-generation disruption to upgrade that bridge back then.  But they didn't, so here we are.

Checking the link, the bridges will get new/replaced deck overlays.  Technically speaking, redecking means stripping the bridge down to its girders and then pouring or placing in a new deck in its place, which is not the case here.  Replacing the overlay is a cheaper alternative but has a shorter life as it is still using the older deck underneath it.

[Revive 755]

WisDot has some maps of alternatives for I-43 between Silver Springs Drive and WI 60 up on their website:

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/43/public.htm

I see WisDOT has given an official name for the U-ramp design, though it seems it should be called a Double Horseshoe if there are two of the U-ramps present.

[colinstu]

WisDot has some maps of alternatives for I-43 between Silver Springs Drive and WI 60 up on their website:

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/43/public.htm

I see WisDOT has given an official name for the U-ramp design, though it seems it should be called a Double Horseshoe if there are two of the U-ramps present.

Now that's an awesome find... didn't know there's been meetings and ideas drafted up for I-43 being widened and redesigned interchanges. Looks like construction would start around 2019!

[Stephane Dumas]

For Good Hope Road, I like the idea of a split diamond interchange.

I once suggested on Fictionnal roads, the idea of a interchange on Highland road, does someone at WIDOT checked AARoads?

[triplemultiplex]

The Highland Road interchange has been around as a proposal for a while now.  It was part of SEWRPC's regional freeways study from over a decade ago.

I love the diverging diamond for Brown Deer Rd.

I'd pick the single point interchange for Good Hope.  But the split diamond with Green Tree does have my attention since Good Hope doesn't make it all the way to Lake Dr.  It would be okay with me.

They should put 43 below grade between the RR bridge and Green Tree.  The elevated options ain't going to fly in those bitchy suburbs anyway.  They're probably already upset they'll need right of way.

(Anyone else getting loads of crap from those pdf's?)

[Milwaukee, WY]

I really like the diverging diamond at Brown Deer, and it looks like it addresses all the concerns they have there.  Also like the SPUI at Good Hope.  It does beg the question why WisDOT completely rebuilt the bridges at Brown Deer and Good Hope two years ago when they were planning to rip them out within a decade.  The original structures must have been in really poor shape. 

[mgk920]

I really like the diverging diamond at Brown Deer, and it looks like it addresses all the concerns they have there.  Also like the SPUI at Good Hope.  It does beg the question why WisDOT completely rebuilt the bridges at Brown Deer and Good Hope two years ago when they were planning to rip them out within a decade.  The original structures must have been in really poor shape.

That was likely part of it.  The old bridges pre-dated I-43 by many years (the freeway was originally US 141, upgraded Port Washington Rd).  As for the DDI, it should be able to make use of the existing new bridges just fine.  Last year, GADOT kept the existing bridges when they converted an existing interchange on I-285 in north suburban Atlanta to a DDI.

Mike

[triplemultiplex]

It does beg the question why WisDOT completely rebuilt the bridges at Brown Deer and Good Hope two years ago when they were planning to rip them out within a decade.  The original structures must have been in really poor shape.

I brought up this exact thing at a PIM for those projects a few years ago.  I was giving them crap for not just rebuilding Brown Deer as a diamond at the time.  But the people I talked to said something about waiting for the study that's going on now before they would consider reconfigurations.  Really stupid IMHO; those death ramps are evil.  There's no reason they couldn't have done the DDI in '011.  At least they left room for more lanes under the new overpass.

At Green Tree & Good Hope, those bridges were clinging to life.  They replaced Good Hope and stitched Green Tree together as best they could.  Its underside is covered with construction fabric to prevent chunks from falling on the interstate.

It's the kind of project where it would've been nice if WisDOT had an idea of what they were going to do with the corridor a decade or more out and could've build bridges that would accommodate that long term plan.  Now in all likelihood, they're going to have to tear out that new Good Hope Rd. overpass after 10 years of operation.  Derp!

[hobsini2]

Triple, I kind of wished that WisDOT would use the same practice that ISTHA uses on all overpasses. Have there be enough room (pier width) for extra lanes on top of the 3 lanes plus shoulders. When they widened 355 a couple years ago, they did not have to redo any of the bridges except for the one at Maple Ave. Something like this: https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=I-355+at+63rd+St&aq=&sll=39.739318,-89.266507&sspn=10.74076,21.972656&vpsrc=0&t=h&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=63rd+St+%26+Interstate+355,+Woodridge,+DuPage,+Illinois&ll=41.771376,-88.045077&spn=0.010178,0.021458&z=16&cbll=41.771552,-88.045257&panoid=jvlGPD-3mcCRC3W0KsWj7w&cbp=12,0,,0,0&ei=diEfUcCRMuXzwQGW_IDgCg&pw=2

[Stephane Dumas]

I taught of an idea who might be a bit too far-fetched, but I decided to post it anyway. ^^;

How about converting some adjacent streets into service roads along I-43? Jean-Nicolet road could be reconverted as a southbound service road and Port Washington into a northbound service road even if Port Washington road is not close to I-43 in some places.  http://goo.gl/maps/pAHWA 

[colinstu]

On Wednesday, I attended a PIM for the upcoming Hoan Bridge and Lake Interchange redecking.
The maps they had up are here:
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/794hoan/public.htm

The meeting was held in the SEWRPC building in downtown which lies in the shadow of the Marquette Interchange on St. Paul Ave.  Damn that thing looks cool from underneath, too.

Starting next fall, WisDOT will redeck the Hoan Bridge completely.  They're taking it down to the steel structure.  They'll do southbound first, be done by Summerfest 2014 then do the northbound lanes after festival season.
WisDOT will be employing a zipper lane during construction with two lanes in the direction of commuter travel, one against.  That should be pretty cool.  They will also construct a temporary ramp on the ground by Lincoln Memorial Drive so traffic can bypass closed bridges in the Lake Interchange; essentially, traffic will exit at Lincoln Memorial and use a temporary ramp to connect to the existing WB entrance ramp.  If you think that WB corner on 794 is tight now, it's got nothing on this temporary setup we'll have.

The Lake Interchange and all the ramps east of the river will be resurfaced while the entrance/exit ramps to/from Jackson & Van Buren Streets will be completely replaced with new bridges.

So that's what's happening starting next year, but a little further on the horizon there might be some interesting stuff going on there.  I showed the redesign I made in the fictional thread to some engineers, but before I did, there were a couple other people there pitching another good idea on what to do with Lake Interchange.  They had a nice rendering of Lincoln Memorial Drive continuing south between the Hoan Bridge ramps and connecting to Harbor Drive.  From there, they proposed that a road continue west over the Milwaukee River via an abandoned railroad r/w and tie into Florida Street in the Walker's Point neighborhood.  Well I thought that was pretty awesome and worked it into my Lake Interchange concept.
So you don't have to hunt for it in the redesigning interchanges thread, here it is:


As for my proposal, the SEWRPC engineers I talked to were reasonably impressed.  Apparently they are kicking around some similar ideas regarding having a single WB entrance/EB exit east of the river rather than two.  They liked how I moved all the ramps to the right side. I get the impression that's something they might not be doing for Jackson/Van Buren Streets since they are rebuilding them completely as-is next year.
Unless I misunderstood, there seems to be talk from the city of eliminating the ramps between Lincoln Memorial Drive and the Hoan Bridge in their ultimate design.  That seems a tad foolish to me as Lincoln Memorial Drive functions very well as an artery for east side neighborhoods.
Regardless, it seems a lot of people are really high on the idea of locating Milwaukee's next great skyscraper at the junction of Lincoln Memorial Drive and Clybourn Avenue.  So this Lake Interchange land that would get freed up by a redesign won't sit vacant for years like the Park East land.

"Lakefront Gateway Project" ... whole bunch about this is showing up online... give it a search.



What you think Triple? Little confusing. Not sure why there's 3 medians approaching the Clybourn/Lincoln Memorial intersection. And Clybourn appears to be a 2-way instead of 1-way. Would be AWESOME if they made all of Clybourn a 2 way, would help a ton.

Why most people would use that lower (new) intersection to get onto 794 WB ... I have no idea. Turn onto clybourn and turn left at Jackson.

[Milwaukee, WY]

Why most people would use that lower (new) intersection to get onto 794 WB ... I have no idea. Turn onto clybourn and turn left at Jackson.

I'm not too sure.  My guess is they'll do something with the signal timing on Clybourn to make it more appealing to just get on at Lincoln Memorial.  Over all, I'm not sure how much I like this plan in its entirety.  It looks like they're cheaping out and not reconfiguring the screwy stretch of 794 between the river and the Hoan.  They need to get rid of all those left entrances and exits.

[triplemultiplex]

"Lakefront Gateway Project" ... whole bunch about this is showing up online... give it a search.



What you think Triple? Little confusing. Not sure why there's 3 medians approaching the Clybourn/Lincoln Memorial intersection.

Well the three medians are from surface street continuing south under the bridge flanked by the exit and entrance ramps to/from the south.

Why most people would use that lower (new) intersection to get onto 794 WB ... I have no idea. Turn onto clybourn and turn left at Jackson.
[/quote]

I agree. Properly configured, there doesn't need to be a separate exit/entrance for "the Lakefront" to/from the west.  That's why I came up with my design.  I didn't expect them to do major reconfiguring, so that proposal is more in line with what I was told at the PIM last year.
The left hand ramps at this location don't bother me as much due to commuting patterns.  A large percentage of the traffic gets on and off there.  Ideally, I'd like to switch 'em to the right, but I can tolerate them as is, I suppose.

[hobsini2]

One thing that I noticed over the weekend that annoyed me is that aside from Lincoln Memorial, there is no eastbound/southbound entrance ramp to the Lake Frwy/Parkway if you are coming down say Water St, like I was Saturday. I ended up taking Water south to St Paul east to Van Buren north to Michigan east to Lincoln Memorial south to get on the Hoan Bridge.  I thought at one point there was another eastbound/southbound entrance near 2nd St but I could not find it.  Anyway, just my obs. They need another eastbound/southbound entrance ramp.

[colinstu]

One thing that I noticed over the weekend that annoyed me is that aside from Lincoln Memorial, there is no eastbound/southbound entrance ramp to the Lake Frwy/Parkway if you are coming down say Water St, like I was Saturday. I ended up taking Water south to St Paul east to Van Buren north to Michigan east to Lincoln Memorial south to get on the Hoan Bridge.  I thought at one point there was another eastbound/southbound entrance near 2nd St but I could not find it.  Anyway, just my obs. They need another eastbound/southbound entrance ramp.

Could've gone straight from Water street -> Michigan -> Lincoln Memorial? If you're south of Michigan already... lol do a U-turn! Cuts out all that south-of-the-freeway stuff.

[hobsini2]

One thing that I noticed over the weekend that annoyed me is that aside from Lincoln Memorial, there is no eastbound/southbound entrance ramp to the Lake Frwy/Parkway if you are coming down say Water St, like I was Saturday. I ended up taking Water south to St Paul east to Van Buren north to Michigan east to Lincoln Memorial south to get on the Hoan Bridge.  I thought at one point there was another eastbound/southbound entrance near 2nd St but I could not find it.  Anyway, just my obs. They need another eastbound/southbound entrance ramp.

Could've gone straight from Water street -> Michigan -> Lincoln Memorial? If you're south of Michigan already... lol do a U-turn! Cuts out all that south-of-the-freeway stuff.

I would have taken Michigan had I known there was not an entrance off St Paul.

[Revive 755]

I'm not too sure.  My guess is they'll do something with the signal timing on Clybourn to make it more appealing to just get on at Lincoln Memorial.

Given that downtown Milwaukee already has abysmal signal coordination . . .

The author of the Lakefront Gateway Map could have done a better job and differentiated between through lanes and dedicated turn lanes.

[triplemultiplex]

The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal did a write up on the Lakefront Gateway today.

http://www.jsonline.com/business/lakefront-road-work-to-open-land-for-development-eo93sv2-196948891.html

It was even cause for two time gubernatorial rivals Scott Walker and Tom Barrett to be on the same side of something.  Amazing.


This 3d view uses that same ramp plan above.


It should be noted that the proposed building at current ramp terminals is more hypothetical than the two north of Clybourn Ave.  Those are concrete plans at this point; especially that 833 Michigan.
Also the square tower for Northwestern Mutual is just a place holder.  There are no designs for that new building yet, but it's definitely happening.

Looks pretty good to me.

[Milwaukee, WY]

Update on alternatives for the Stadium interchange study, courtesy of the Milwaukee Business Journal (admittedly not a lot here we didn't already know):

Stadium Interchange proposal calls for 8 lanes, potential double-decker

Sean Ryan
Reporter-
The Business Journal

The Stadium Interchange and a stretch of Interstate 94 would be rebuilt with eight lanes, with a possible double-decker segment near Miller Park, under a plan proposed by the Wisconsin Department of Transportation.

The rest can be found here: http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2013/07/30/stadium-interchange-proposal-calls-for.html

[FightingIrish]

Update on alternatives for the Stadium interchange study, courtesy of the Milwaukee Business Journal (admittedly not a lot here we didn't already know):

Stadium Interchange proposal calls for 8 lanes, potential double-decker

Sean Ryan
Reporter-
The Business Journal

The Stadium Interchange and a stretch of Interstate 94 would be rebuilt with eight lanes, with a possible double-decker segment near Miller Park, under a plan proposed by the Wisconsin Department of Transportation.

The rest can be found here: http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2013/07/30/stadium-interchange-proposal-calls-for.html

That area west of Miller Park is pretty tricky. It's a cemetary owned by the Veterans Administration and it is also a national monument. I-94 is sandwiched in there pretty tight. WISDOT wants to expand the whole thing to 8 lanes, but in order to do it without the double decks, they'd have to make the lanes narrower, eliminate the shoulder and lose the interchange with Hawley Rd. The two decks would give each direction a little breathing room through there.

As long as it relieves congestion and gets rid of all those nasty left lane exits, I'm fine with it.

[mgk920]

^^
And as I mentioned elsewhere, there are graves that are very near the freeway there that are legally 'sealed' and thus unable to be moved, this due to an unknown disease that struck down those buried there and the needs for public health and safety at the time of their deaths (late 19th or early 20th century).

Mike

[colinstu]

I attended the PIM on 7/31.

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/seregion/94stadiumint/docs/pim4fullcorridor.pdf

Pretty much boils down double decker vs not.

My comment card wanted the double decker! Rest of it looks sweet. Very happy how this is coming out.