Milwaukee area freeways

Started by triplemultiplex, February 22, 2011, 03:58:28 PM

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GeekJedi

Quote from: dvferyance on June 15, 2017, 06:58:38 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on June 15, 2017, 10:14:14 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 11, 2017, 11:38:42 PM
Drove through the Zoo Interchange project over the weekend and core of the interchange has really taken shape.  Due to slow traffic on the NB->WB ramp I was using, there was ample opportunity to scope it out from the driver's seat.  Lots of decks being poured right now.

The Zoo has gone from unimpressive to massive as one approaches it.  It finally looks the part of Wisconsin's busiest freeway interchange.

I've meant to discuss this before, but I noticed they are replacing the Elm Grove Road overpass on the west end of the project.   All the maps show the project limits to be immediately west of Underwood Parkway, so to see this bridge replaced is curious and also a bit tantalizing.  The prospect of a 4th lane in either direction all the way to Goerkes Corner seems that much closer.

The MJS reported within the last two years that WisDOT was adding a fourth lane in each direction between the Zoo Project and Moorland Road in conjunction with replacing the overpasses at Elm Grove and Sunny Slope Rds. I'll see if I can find the article and add it here.
I would have liked to see an interchange there but I ma sure there would be way too much local opposition to that.

Agreed on both counts. An interchange at Sunny Slope would be great. But I'm sure that the NIMBY's would quickly kill it.
"Wisconsin - The Concurrency State!"


SEWIGuy

What I-94 needs is an interchange between Moorland and Bluemound.  At either Calhoun or Brookfield.  Not going to happen though.

Big John

Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 15, 2017, 10:21:24 PM
What I-94 needs is an interchange between Moorland and Bluemound.  At either Calhoun or Brookfield.  Not going to happen though.
That was previously proposed then killed by NIMBYs.

tchafe1978

I grew up in Brookfield, about a half mile as the crow flies from I-94. A potential interchange at either Brookfield Rd., Calhoun Rd., or a split interchange between the two has been talked about and debated for at least 30 years. If it hasn't happened by now it probably never will. There was too much opposition from residents in the immediate vicinity (my family included) and the DOT wouldn't agree to build an interchange with so much local opposition. It would have basically destroyed two city parks, although the access would have been convenient to our neighborhood and a nearby corporate park. It also probably would have sped up the widening of Calhoun Rd. by about 20 years.

Milwaukee, WY

That's funny. Fierce neighborhood opposition hasn't ever stopped WisDOT from ramming through unpopular expansions in the city. Guess they treat the burbs with kid gloves...

FightingIrish

Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on June 24, 2017, 01:23:49 PM
That's funny. Fierce neighborhood opposition hasn't ever stopped WisDOT from ramming through unpopular expansions in the city. Guess they treat the burbs with kid gloves...
You obviously have forgotten about all those unbuilt freeways in the Milwaukee area. Or the compromises like Lake Parkway and Lincoln Memorial Drive.

SM-G900P


Milwaukee, WY

Quote from: FightingIrish on June 25, 2017, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on June 24, 2017, 01:23:49 PM
That's funny. Fierce neighborhood opposition hasn't ever stopped WisDOT from ramming through unpopular expansions in the city. Guess they treat the burbs with kid gloves...
You obviously have forgotten about all those unbuilt freeways in the Milwaukee area. Or the compromises like Lake Parkway and Lincoln Memorial Drive.

SM-G900P
I haven't obviously forgotten anything. I'm referring to recent history.  But as long as we're talking about historically, how about the way that bronzeville and the walnut street neighborhood were completely removed for the I-43 carriage way? And also consider that the lake freeway and most of the other unbuilt segments were supposed to go through affluent areas... Transportation planners have a long history of giving in to the haves while giving short shrift to the have-nots.


iPhone

GeekJedi

Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on June 25, 2017, 05:12:31 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 25, 2017, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on June 24, 2017, 01:23:49 PM
That's funny. Fierce neighborhood opposition hasn't ever stopped WisDOT from ramming through unpopular expansions in the city. Guess they treat the burbs with kid gloves...
You obviously have forgotten about all those unbuilt freeways in the Milwaukee area. Or the compromises like Lake Parkway and Lincoln Memorial Drive.

SM-G900P
I haven't obviously forgotten anything. I'm referring to recent history.  But as long as we're talking about historically, how about the way that bronzeville and the walnut street neighborhood were completely removed for the I-43 carriage way? And also consider that the lake freeway and most of the other unbuilt segments were supposed to go through affluent areas... Transportation planners have a long history of giving in to the haves while giving short shrift to the have-nots.


In this case, there'd be no "ramming down anyone's throat". Any interchanges between WI-100 and Moorland Rd. would not have been considered during the initial build (during the time they were "ramming things" through). That area was nothing but farmland until the early-to-mid 80's. It wasn't until the area got built out that rumblings started for something like a Calhoun Rd. exit started. By then the land was much too valuable and the pressure too great for WisDOT to do anything. The only time WisDOT rams anything through is if they have any support from the local municipality. There is a long string of projects all over the state that are scaled back or not done due to opposition.
"Wisconsin - The Concurrency State!"

SEWIGuy

Quote from: GeekJedi on June 25, 2017, 09:26:01 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on June 25, 2017, 05:12:31 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 25, 2017, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on June 24, 2017, 01:23:49 PM
That's funny. Fierce neighborhood opposition hasn't ever stopped WisDOT from ramming through unpopular expansions in the city. Guess they treat the burbs with kid gloves...
You obviously have forgotten about all those unbuilt freeways in the Milwaukee area. Or the compromises like Lake Parkway and Lincoln Memorial Drive.

SM-G900P
I haven't obviously forgotten anything. I'm referring to recent history.  But as long as we're talking about historically, how about the way that bronzeville and the walnut street neighborhood were completely removed for the I-43 carriage way? And also consider that the lake freeway and most of the other unbuilt segments were supposed to go through affluent areas... Transportation planners have a long history of giving in to the haves while giving short shrift to the have-nots.


In this case, there'd be no "ramming down anyone's throat". Any interchanges between WI-100 and Moorland Rd. would not have been considered during the initial build (during the time they were "ramming things" through). That area was nothing but farmland until the early-to-mid 80's. It wasn't until the area got built out that rumblings started for something like a Calhoun Rd. exit started. By then the land was much too valuable and the pressure too great for WisDOT to do anything. The only time WisDOT rams anything through is if they have any support from the local municipality. There is a long string of projects all over the state that are scaled back or not done due to opposition.


That area was not "nothing but farmland" in the early to mid 1980s.  Yeah there was a field here and there but that part of Brookfield was building up in 1960s.

GeekJedi

Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2017, 09:43:03 PM

That area was not "nothing but farmland" in the early to mid 1980s.  Yeah there was a field here and there but that part of Brookfield was building up in 1960s.

You're right. Look at ALL that buildup.   :rolleyes:

https://www.historicaerials.com/location/43.02792958411912/-88.14099311828613/1980/14
"Wisconsin - The Concurrency State!"

SEWIGuy

Quote from: GeekJedi on June 26, 2017, 10:18:27 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2017, 09:43:03 PM

That area was not "nothing but farmland" in the early to mid 1980s.  Yeah there was a field here and there but that part of Brookfield was building up in 1960s.

You're right. Look at ALL that buildup.   :rolleyes:

https://www.historicaerials.com/location/43.02792958411912/-88.14099311828613/1980/14



Yeah.  Doesn't look like "nothing but farmland" to me.

Between the beginning stages of the developments and the parkland it looks like there is no space for an interchange at Calhoun and barely one at Brookfield.  Perhaps one in between.

GeekJedi

#261
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 26, 2017, 10:23:48 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on June 26, 2017, 10:18:27 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2017, 09:43:03 PM

That area was not "nothing but farmland" in the early to mid 1980s.  Yeah there was a field here and there but that part of Brookfield was building up in 1960s.

You're right. Look at ALL that buildup.   :rolleyes:

https://www.historicaerials.com/location/43.02792958411912/-88.14099311828613/1980/14



Yeah.  Doesn't look like "nothing but farmland" to me.

Between the beginning stages of the developments and the parkland it looks like there is no space for an interchange at Calhoun and barely one at Brookfield.  Perhaps one in between.

For gosh sakes, there was an ACTUAL farm there! You can parse the language however you want ("beginning stages of the developments" does not equal actual development), but there was plenty of room there. There was a single house at Brookfield Rd., and Ruby Farms along with maybe three houses at Calhoun.
"Wisconsin - The Concurrency State!"

mgk920

My sense is that most of what is now the City of Brookfield (originally part of Brookfield Township, incorporated in 1954) was developed during the classic 1950s/1960s era suburban flight.  This was also the time when the I-94 upgrade from the original WI 30 was being planned and built.  The Village of Elm Grove came about at that time (originally part of Brookfield Township, incorporated in 1955), too.

The original 'Brookfield' was the tiny unincorporated 'village' settlement area around where Brookfield Rd crosses the now CP (ex Milwaukee Road) mainline.

Mike

SEWIGuy

Quote from: GeekJedi on June 26, 2017, 10:40:40 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 26, 2017, 10:23:48 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on June 26, 2017, 10:18:27 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2017, 09:43:03 PM

That area was not "nothing but farmland" in the early to mid 1980s.  Yeah there was a field here and there but that part of Brookfield was building up in 1960s.

You're right. Look at ALL that buildup.   :rolleyes:

https://www.historicaerials.com/location/43.02792958411912/-88.14099311828613/1980/14



Yeah.  Doesn't look like "nothing but farmland" to me.

Between the beginning stages of the developments and the parkland it looks like there is no space for an interchange at Calhoun and barely one at Brookfield.  Perhaps one in between.

For gosh sakes, there was an ACTUAL farm there! You can parse the language however you want ("beginning stages of the developments" does not equal actual development), but there was plenty of room there. There was a single house at Brookfield Rd., and Ruby Farms along with maybe three houses at Calhoun.


I'm not parsing anything.  You said "nothing but farmland."  You made it sound like it was completely rural or something so that adding interchanges back then would have been no problem.  It was part of a suburban incorporated city with plenty of development started.

If you would have said 1960s on your overall point about an interchange at Calhoun, I would have agreed.  But by 1980 it was largely too late anyway from a public pressure point of view.

GeekJedi

That picture shows that it's pretty rural. For the purposes of this topic, there was no reason at that point, that interchanges couldn't have been done. There was space, and that area hadn't seen much development yet. As for farmland, that entire stretch from Calhoun to Brookfield north of 94 was still farmland at the time. There was a farm or two along Bluemound back then as well.
"Wisconsin - The Concurrency State!"

mgk920

Quote from: GeekJedi on June 26, 2017, 06:06:13 PM
That picture shows that it’s pretty rural. For the purposes of this topic, there was no reason at that point, that interchanges couldn’t have been done. There was space, and that area hadn’t seen much development yet. As for farmland, that entire stretch from Calhoun to Brookfield north of 94 was still farmland at the time. There was a farm or two along Bluemound back then as well.

Where is this in relation to the never-built Belt Freeway?  Perhaps close proximity to the planned I-94/Belt interchange is why none was built at Calhoun Rd.

Mike

tchafe1978

I believe the Belt Freeway was supposed to land in between Calhoun and Brookfield Rds with a system interchange. It's one of the reasons why that land was some of the last to be developed in the Bluemound Rd. area of Brookfield. The farm field it would have run through was directly behind my parents house where I grew up. I believe subdivisions finally starting going in in the area south if I-94 and north of Davidson Rd. in the mid 1990s.

dvferyance

Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2017, 09:43:03 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on June 25, 2017, 09:26:01 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on June 25, 2017, 05:12:31 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 25, 2017, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on June 24, 2017, 01:23:49 PM
That's funny. Fierce neighborhood opposition hasn't ever stopped WisDOT from ramming through unpopular expansions in the city. Guess they treat the burbs with kid gloves...
You obviously have forgotten about all those unbuilt freeways in the Milwaukee area. Or the compromises like Lake Parkway and Lincoln Memorial Drive.

SM-G900P
I haven't obviously forgotten anything. I'm referring to recent history.  But as long as we're talking about historically, how about the way that bronzeville and the walnut street neighborhood were completely removed for the I-43 carriage way? And also consider that the lake freeway and most of the other unbuilt segments were supposed to go through affluent areas... Transportation planners have a long history of giving in to the haves while giving short shrift to the have-nots.


In this case, there'd be no "ramming down anyone's throat". Any interchanges between WI-100 and Moorland Rd. would not have been considered during the initial build (during the time they were "ramming things" through). That area was nothing but farmland until the early-to-mid 80's. It wasn't until the area got built out that rumblings started for something like a Calhoun Rd. exit started. By then the land was much too valuable and the pressure too great for WisDOT to do anything. The only time WisDOT rams anything through is if they have any support from the local municipality. There is a long string of projects all over the state that are scaled back or not done due to opposition.


That area was not "nothing but farmland" in the early to mid 1980s.  Yeah there was a field here and there but that part of Brookfield was building up in 1960s.
You got that right. My sister and brother in law line in a house along Bluemound just east of Moorland that was built in the 50's. That area was building up long before the 80's Now I do vaguely remember some farmland left west of Calhoun that was just starting to be developed around the late 80's. But Brookfield east of Calhoun was still mostly built up even in the 80's.

tchafe1978

Quote from: dvferyance on June 27, 2017, 02:30:51 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2017, 09:43:03 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on June 25, 2017, 09:26:01 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on June 25, 2017, 05:12:31 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 25, 2017, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on June 24, 2017, 01:23:49 PM
That's funny. Fierce neighborhood opposition hasn't ever stopped WisDOT from ramming through unpopular expansions in the city. Guess they treat the burbs with kid gloves...
You obviously have forgotten about all those unbuilt freeways in the Milwaukee area. Or the compromises like Lake Parkway and Lincoln Memorial Drive.

SM-G900P
I haven't obviously forgotten anything. I'm referring to recent history.  But as long as we're talking about historically, how about the way that bronzeville and the walnut street neighborhood were completely removed for the I-43 carriage way? And also consider that the lake freeway and most of the other unbuilt segments were supposed to go through affluent areas... Transportation planners have a long history of giving in to the haves while giving short shrift to the have-nots.


In this case, there'd be no "ramming down anyone's throat". Any interchanges between WI-100 and Moorland Rd. would not have been considered during the initial build (during the time they were "ramming things" through). That area was nothing but farmland until the early-to-mid 80's. It wasn't until the area got built out that rumblings started for something like a Calhoun Rd. exit started. By then the land was much too valuable and the pressure too great for WisDOT to do anything. The only time WisDOT rams anything through is if they have any support from the local municipality. There is a long string of projects all over the state that are scaled back or not done due to opposition.


That area was not "nothing but farmland" in the early to mid 1980s.  Yeah there was a field here and there but that part of Brookfield was building up in 1960s.
You got that right. My sister and brother in law line in a house along Bluemound just east of Moorland that was built in the 50's. That area was building up long before the 80's Now I do vaguely remember some farmland left west of Calhoun that was just starting to be developed around the late 80's. But Brookfield east of Calhoun was still mostly built up even in the 80's.

Yup, my parents house and neighborhood was built in the 1960s. The are around them didn't totally fill in until the 1990s. The Corners development that is taking up the remaining land from the Ruby Farms and where the WTMJ radio towers used to be was the largest remaining undeveloped land in Brookfield.

The Ghostbuster

I don't see Interstate 94 getting any new interchanges between Madison and Milwaukee anytime soon. Although this is well to the west of the Milwaukee area, wasn't there a proposal to eliminate the existing Willow Glen Road interchange (Exit 277)?

triplemultiplex

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 27, 2017, 07:20:54 PM
I don't see Interstate 94 getting any new interchanges between Madison and Milwaukee anytime soon. Although this is well to the west of the Milwaukee area, wasn't there a proposal to eliminate the existing Willow Glen Road interchange (Exit 277)?

It was part of SEWRPC's freeway reconstruction study for the entire region many years ago to eliminate the half interchange at Willow Glen.  No idea if that's still the plan.  That study also recommended turning the half interchange at CTH P into a full access interchange and that came to fruition.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

GeekJedi

Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 28, 2017, 09:28:35 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 27, 2017, 07:20:54 PM
I don't see Interstate 94 getting any new interchanges between Madison and Milwaukee anytime soon. Although this is well to the west of the Milwaukee area, wasn't there a proposal to eliminate the existing Willow Glen Road interchange (Exit 277)?

I think the CTH P interchange work was due to the Pabst Farms development. As for Willow Rd., not sure why they'd spend the money to remove an interchange. Of course, I don't have much of an idea on what it costs to maintain.

It was part of SEWRPC's freeway reconstruction study for the entire region many years ago to eliminate the half interchange at Willow Glen.  No idea if that's still the plan.  That study also recommended turning the half interchange at CTH P into a full access interchange and that came to fruition.
"Wisconsin - The Concurrency State!"

The Ghostbuster

Thanks for the info. Personally, I believe the proposal to eliminate Exit 277 is probably dead.

triplemultiplex

Quote from: GeekJedi on June 28, 2017, 11:32:32 AM
As for Willow Rd., not sure why they'd spend the money to remove an interchange. Of course, I don't have much of an idea on what it costs to maintain.

The one rationale I can come up with is if they don't want trucks taking Delafield Rd as a short cut to I-94 to/from the west because of that big Roundy's distribution center and maybe there are locals complaining about the traffic?  There's a sign on I-94 EB that says trucks over 10 tons are not permitted on Delafield Rd, but who knows how enforced that is.
It's pure speculation on my part though.  The SEWRPC study predates the distribution center by several years.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

dvferyance

#274
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 28, 2017, 02:44:09 PM
Thanks for the info. Personally, I believe the proposal to eliminate Exit 277 is probably dead.
Sure we can all agree it's not vitially needed but as long as it's there why get rid of it? What I don't get is why the DOT never posted a warning sign letting drivers know there is no eastbound return ramp at that interchange. They did it for Hwy P during the days that interchange was only partial.



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