AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

New rules to ensure post quality. See this thread for details.

Author Topic: Ontario's Highways  (Read 403448 times)

J N Winkler

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 7527
  • Location: Wichita, Kansas
  • Last Login: Today at 09:29:34 PM
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #800 on: September 29, 2016, 02:38:09 PM »

I think this generally has to do with the geological conditions of much of northern Ontario.  Along the northshore of both Lake Superior and Lake Huron, there is shallow bedrock, and very little clay on the topsoil that does exist.  Many sections of both Hwy 11 and Hwy 69 are also built on blast rock.

While it does work for highway construction, the lack of a soil cover can pose problems when transport trucks run off the road and spill either their liquid cargo, or fuel.  Because of the porous nature of the blast rock, recovery of the spilled fluid can pose problems.

I was actually wondering myself about this problem, as well as the possibility of subsidence due to meltwater percolating down, refreezing, and breaking larger stones into smaller ones that collectively take up less volume.

In regard to Terry Fox, I have found Mile 3,339 at last:

Mile 3,339 signs on Hwy. 17 (actual monument, and tourist inspecting it, just off north side of the road, to the left)

The StreetView imagery dates from 2012, when this part of Hwy. 17 was still in the process of being twinned through the addition of a new carriageway on the north side (preliminary site clearance is evident as thinned forest cover on that side).  The 2012 signs have the runner-in-circle symbol on white and state explicitly that this site is where the Marathon of Hope ended.  I don't think the current signs carbon-copy them; I do remember clearly that they have the runner-in-circle on blue, and I think they were also square in format and said just "Mile 3,339."

MTO's plan to remove the wooden monument to the left (as part of the twinning works) evidently caused much heartache locally in 2011.  It was eventually donated to a museum to complement other Terry Fox memorabilia in its collection.  (Sources:  1, 2, 3, 4.)

There's a lot of shipping between cities on the Lakes.  Chicago and Detroit, for example, are destinations for iron ore mined in the Mesabi and Marquette Ranges, with the former shipped out of Duluth.  Then we do get salties that come in/go out the Seaway.

That and the Erie Canal became irrelevant with the opening of the St Lawrence Seaway. Lake freight traffic is quite substantial.

There is an exhibit panel at the Soo Locks visitor center in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan, which gives the comparative unit energy costs of shipping loads by lake freighter, railroad, and highway.  I wish I had photographed it, but I recall that the cost by freighter was a small fraction of that by rail, which in turn is somewhat smaller than highway.

Lake Superior navigation shuts down from mid-January to late March, so I suspect rail freight picks up some of the demand for bulk transport during those months.  Most of the small towns on the north side of Lake Superior actually got their start as Canadian Pacific Railway towns--in 1930, there was no long-distance motorable road anywhere from about Harmony Beach (a few dozen miles north of Soo) to what is now Thunder Bay, and the last link of Hwy. 17 through Lake Superior Provincial Park was apparently also the final link of the Trans-Canada to be completed (works begun 1957, road opened September 1960).

The Soo Locks can handle lakers of up to 1000 feet, but I understand shipping companies now favor Seawaymax for new construction for flexibility.  The one ship I saw actually going through the locks (the Canadian-registered lake freighter Thunder Bay) is Seaway-capable.
Logged
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

AsphaltPlanet

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3009
  • Bagel Technician - H&H Bagel

  • Location: Toronto, Ontario
  • Last Login: Today at 09:54:52 PM
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #801 on: September 30, 2016, 09:15:18 AM »

I think this generally has to do with the geological conditions of much of northern Ontario.  Along the northshore of both Lake Superior and Lake Huron, there is shallow bedrock, and very little clay on the topsoil that does exist.  Many sections of both Hwy 11 and Hwy 69 are also built on blast rock.

While it does work for highway construction, the lack of a soil cover can pose problems when transport trucks run off the road and spill either their liquid cargo, or fuel.  Because of the porous nature of the blast rock, recovery of the spilled fluid can pose problems.

I was actually wondering myself about this problem, as well as the possibility of subsidence due to meltwater percolating down, refreezing, and breaking larger stones into smaller ones that collectively take up less volume.

The Canadian Shield, and the blast rock it produces for highway construction are generally comprised of igneous rock such as granite.  Because the rock is so hard, I don't it is particularly susceptible from damage due to water infiltration into the road base.

Of much greater concern would probably be soils with low bearing pressure.  Northern Ontario has considerable deposits of muskeg, which is notoriously poor material for building things on.  Material such as this would have a much greater effect on highway settlement than freeze-thaw cycles within the blast rock.
Logged
AsphaltPlanet.ca  Youtube -- Opinions expressed reflect the viewpoints of others.

AsphaltPlanet

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3009
  • Bagel Technician - H&H Bagel

  • Location: Toronto, Ontario
  • Last Login: Today at 09:54:52 PM
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #802 on: October 06, 2016, 09:55:21 PM »

A few new photos of the construction on Highway 400 at the Highway 9 interchange north of the GTA.  Construction is underway to widen the 400 through the Highway 9 interchange which has necessitated the replacement of the structure and interchange ramps.

Looking southerly along Highway 400 from the Carpool lot within the SW quadrant of the interchange.  Grading and some paving for the widened southbound platform has been completed.

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_cl_54-8_south_SB_Sep16_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_cl_54-8_south_SB_Sep16_24x16.jpg

Zoomed out northerly view from the Carpool lot towards the Highway 9 overpass.  Grading for the new northbound loop ramp is visible.

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_cl_54-9_north_w_Sep16_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_cl_54-9_north_w_Sep16_24x16.jpg

Close-up of the construction of the new structure.  At this point, only the central pier and abutments for the new bridge are visible.

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_cl_54-9_north_t_Sep16_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_cl_54-9_north_t_Sep16_24x16.jpg

Southerly view at the southbound off-ramp to Highway 9 from the 400.

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_dv_55_south_Sep16_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_dv_55_south_Sep16_24x16.jpg

Southbound advanced view approaching the Highway 9 interchange.

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_dv_55-25_south_Sep16_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_dv_55-25_south_Sep16_24x16.jpg

View looking easterly along the Canal Bank Road towards the Highway 400 overpass.  These twin structures are being replaced as part of the Highway 9 construction project.

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_structure_55-25_east_Sep16_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_400_images/Contracts/2015-2004/2016/09-Sep/400_structure_55-25_east_Sep16_24x16.jpg
Logged
AsphaltPlanet.ca  Youtube -- Opinions expressed reflect the viewpoints of others.

AsphaltPlanet

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3009
  • Bagel Technician - H&H Bagel

  • Location: Toronto, Ontario
  • Last Login: Today at 09:54:52 PM
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #803 on: October 13, 2016, 11:09:02 AM »

New signs for the Hwy 64 interchange on Hwy 69.  This interchange opened earlier this year:




The full size versions are up on my website:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_60-69_images/Hwy69_p4_images.htm
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 03:54:54 PM by AsphaltPlanet »
Logged
AsphaltPlanet.ca  Youtube -- Opinions expressed reflect the viewpoints of others.

haljackey

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 305
  • Location: London, Ontario, Canada
  • Last Login: February 04, 2021, 10:40:33 PM
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #804 on: October 25, 2016, 02:28:55 PM »

Video showing the entire 407, west to east, including the new extension.

Optional: put annotations on for info

Logged

haljackey

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 305
  • Location: London, Ontario, Canada
  • Last Login: February 04, 2021, 10:40:33 PM
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #805 on: October 27, 2016, 12:23:57 PM »

...And as a natural sequel, a tour of Highway 412.

 Put annotations on if you'd like some info. If not, sit back and enjoy the drive.

Logged

cl94

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 6286
  • C-84: N-74?

  • Age: 27
  • Location: Albany, New York
  • Last Login: Today at 09:56:46 PM
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #806 on: October 27, 2016, 12:34:52 PM »

I'm probably going to try and find an excuse to get up to drive the new sections of 407 and 412 around American Thanksgiving. "Clinching roads" is an acceptable explanation for the customs officers, right?  :-D
Logged
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

haljackey

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 305
  • Location: London, Ontario, Canada
  • Last Login: February 04, 2021, 10:40:33 PM
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #807 on: October 27, 2016, 01:43:10 PM »

I'm probably going to try and find an excuse to get up to drive the new sections of 407 and 412 around American Thanksgiving. "Clinching roads" is an acceptable explanation for the customs officers, right?  :-D

It's a nice drive, although it might be snow covered by late November.

You have until the end of the year to check it out for free.

That's why I decided to do the full 407 tour now. Nice Autumn colours, and I don't need to pay as much to drive the whole thing.
Logged

cl94

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 6286
  • C-84: N-74?

  • Age: 27
  • Location: Albany, New York
  • Last Login: Today at 09:56:46 PM
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #808 on: October 27, 2016, 02:24:48 PM »

I'm probably going to try and find an excuse to get up to drive the new sections of 407 and 412 around American Thanksgiving. "Clinching roads" is an acceptable explanation for the customs officers, right?  :-D

It's a nice drive, although it might be snow covered by late November.

You have until the end of the year to check it out for free.

That's why I decided to do the full 407 tour now. Nice Autumn colours, and I don't need to pay as much to drive the whole thing.

I unfortunately can't get out that far until I'm in Buffalo for Thanksgiving. Granted, where I am is already snow covered, so not like I'm worried about that.
Logged
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

AsphaltPlanet

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3009
  • Bagel Technician - H&H Bagel

  • Location: Toronto, Ontario
  • Last Login: Today at 09:54:52 PM
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #809 on: October 30, 2016, 11:40:01 AM »

At the end of September, I took a drive up from the GTA into northeastern Ontario and northwestern Quebec to have a look at the early fall colours.  I took some photos and shot a couple of videos of my drive.

This is the first of such videos, taken at the northern end of Hwy 400 and the start of Hwy 69.  Hwy 69 is somewhat of an interesting highway, so I really wanted to record it on video before it's all twinned.

« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 03:49:21 PM by AsphaltPlanet »
Logged
AsphaltPlanet.ca  Youtube -- Opinions expressed reflect the viewpoints of others.

US 41

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1844
  • Age: 25
  • Location: Terre Haute, IN
  • Last Login: May 08, 2022, 10:37:54 PM
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #810 on: October 30, 2016, 02:54:02 PM »

They're repaving quite a bit of ON 11 west of Kapuskasing. I ran into a long section of construction through there 3 weeks ago.
Logged
Visited States and Provinces:
USA (47)= Only missing CA, AK, and HI
Canada (5)= NB, NS, ON, PEI, QC
Mexico (6)= CHIH, COAH, DGO, NL, SIN, TAMPS

SignGeek101

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1861
  • Winnipeg sign geek and civil engineering student.

  • Age: 25
  • Location: Winnipeg
  • Last Login: July 19, 2018, 09:05:19 PM
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #811 on: October 30, 2016, 03:35:49 PM »

At the end of September, I took a drive up from the GTA into northeastern Ontario and northwestern Quebec to have a look at the early fall colours.  I took some photos and shot a couple of videos of my drive.

This is the first of such videos, taken at the northern end of Hwy 400 and the start of Hwy 69.  Hwy 69 is somewhat of an interesting highway, so I really wanted to record it on video before it's all twinned.


Don't know if it's just me, but the video doesn't play. It gives an error.

AsphaltPlanet

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3009
  • Bagel Technician - H&H Bagel

  • Location: Toronto, Ontario
  • Last Login: Today at 09:54:52 PM
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #812 on: October 30, 2016, 03:49:56 PM »

At the end of September, I took a drive up from the GTA into northeastern Ontario and northwestern Quebec to have a look at the early fall colours.  I took some photos and shot a couple of videos of my drive.

This is the first of such videos, taken at the northern end of Hwy 400 and the start of Hwy 69.  Hwy 69 is somewhat of an interesting highway, so I really wanted to record it on video before it's all twinned.

Don't know if it's just me, but the video doesn't play. It gives an error.

I updated the original post, so it should work now.
Logged
AsphaltPlanet.ca  Youtube -- Opinions expressed reflect the viewpoints of others.

SignGeek101

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1861
  • Winnipeg sign geek and civil engineering student.

  • Age: 25
  • Location: Winnipeg
  • Last Login: July 19, 2018, 09:05:19 PM
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #813 on: October 30, 2016, 08:12:30 PM »

At the end of September, I took a drive up from the GTA into northeastern Ontario and northwestern Quebec to have a look at the early fall colours.  I took some photos and shot a couple of videos of my drive.

This is the first of such videos, taken at the northern end of Hwy 400 and the start of Hwy 69.  Hwy 69 is somewhat of an interesting highway, so I really wanted to record it on video before it's all twinned.

Don't know if it's just me, but the video doesn't play. It gives an error.

I updated the original post, so it should work now.

Saw the video. Nice work on the signs. Did you manage to get the part under construction? I know it only started in January, but surely there is some measurable progress that has been made.

I also wonder why Ontario doesn't extend ON 400 north at the same time as twinning ON 69 south, in order to speed up completion. I know contracts were awarded with certain dates, but it just makes more sense I think.

AsphaltPlanet

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3009
  • Bagel Technician - H&H Bagel

  • Location: Toronto, Ontario
  • Last Login: Today at 09:54:52 PM
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #814 on: October 30, 2016, 09:57:45 PM »

I got some of the section that is under construction, but I didn't film any of the new four lane sections approaching Sudbury.  I typically go up to Sudbury a couple of times a year, so I could see myself filming the newly four laned sections in the future.

Before the Nobel by-pass opened, MTO was building both from the south and north ends simultaneously.  Since then though, they have only been extending the highway from the Sudbury end.  Hwy 69 does pass through some first nations lands not too far north of Nobel, so it's possible that first nations negotiations have slowed things down a bit.  Though, it's entirely possible there is another reason as well.
Logged
AsphaltPlanet.ca  Youtube -- Opinions expressed reflect the viewpoints of others.

tdindy88

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1736
  • Last Login: Today at 04:32:12 PM
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #815 on: October 30, 2016, 11:05:10 PM »

I do have a question about Ontario signs that I have been wanting to know about. When going along your freeway system this past summer I saw that there were exit number tabs (above the sign on the right side) on the highway signs approaching the exit (I would guess the 1/2 km or 1 km approach) but when you got to the exit there was no exit tab for that exit, and sometimes the next exit down the road (if two guide signs were posted at that exit on a truss.) There is a exit number posted in the gore point of the exit. I noticed this pattern was consistent throughout Ontario and was curious to know why?

In Quebec all signage at every exit included the exit number (inside the sign) along with an exit number sign at the gore and just about all interstates in the U.S post exit number tabs on all guide signs, California being the main exception. It was for that reason I thought that Toronto highways reminded me of California.
Logged

cbeach40

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 477
  • Location: Ontari-ari-ari-o
  • Last Login: April 30, 2022, 04:58:41 PM
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #816 on: October 31, 2016, 10:09:50 AM »

Saw the video. Nice work on the signs. Did you manage to get the part under construction? I know it only started in January, but surely there is some measurable progress that has been made.

There's been quite a bit of blasting and clearing, especially north of the French River. But at this point it doesn't really look like much.

I also wonder why Ontario doesn't extend ON 400 north at the same time as twinning ON 69 south, in order to speed up completion. I know contracts were awarded with certain dates, but it just makes more sense I think.

They were for a while there, having extended 400 northerly from Waubaushene as part of this initiative while 69 continues to grow southerly. Work to begin running from the southern end again should resume shortly.
Logged

rickmastfan67

  • The Invisible One
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3058
  • I want I-67 in PA!!!!

  • Age: 37
  • Location: Pittsburgh, Pa, USA
  • Last Login: Today at 08:45:07 PM
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #817 on: November 01, 2016, 12:41:43 AM »

Chris

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2426
  • International road enthusiast

  • Age: 34
  • Location: the Netherlands
  • Last Login: Today at 05:21:13 PM
    • Flickr
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #818 on: November 01, 2016, 10:43:55 AM »

Yes it was installed in the weekend of October 22-23.

http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/contentonly?vgnextoid=af71df79b2df6410VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD&nrkey=70FD2B951F27B7EA852580590044E3D1&start=1&count=30&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

This is reportedly the exit numbering system:

141 - Kipling Ave
142 - Islington Ave
143* - Park Lawn Road
145* - Lake Shore Blvd
146* - South Kingsway
149 - Jameson Ave
153 - Spadina Ave
154 - Yonge/Bay/York Sts
155 - Jarvis St
157 - Lake Shore Blvd

 * denotes assumed number

Stephane Dumas

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2453
  • Last Login: Today at 06:29:31 PM
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #819 on: November 01, 2016, 03:23:56 PM »

The Exits numbers for Kipling Ave and Islington Ave reflected the old exit number back when that gap was part of the QEW before the big downloading of 1997 and interesting then they continue the QEW exit numbering scheme down to Lake Shore Blvd.
Logged

SignGeek101

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1861
  • Winnipeg sign geek and civil engineering student.

  • Age: 25
  • Location: Winnipeg
  • Last Login: July 19, 2018, 09:05:19 PM
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #820 on: November 01, 2016, 08:55:00 PM »

I do have a question about Ontario signs that I have been wanting to know about. When going along your freeway system this past summer I saw that there were exit number tabs (above the sign on the right side) on the highway signs approaching the exit (I would guess the 1/2 km or 1 km approach) but when you got to the exit there was no exit tab for that exit, and sometimes the next exit down the road (if two guide signs were posted at that exit on a truss.) There is a exit number posted in the gore point of the exit. I noticed this pattern was consistent throughout Ontario and was curious to know why?

Yes, that is standard I believe. Maybe the MTO thinks that posting an exit tab on a sign which is right beside the gore is redundant? Not really sure.

rickmastfan67

  • The Invisible One
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3058
  • I want I-67 in PA!!!!

  • Age: 37
  • Location: Pittsburgh, Pa, USA
  • Last Login: Today at 08:45:07 PM
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #821 on: November 03, 2016, 08:41:46 AM »

Hope more pictures of the new exit numbers surface then. :)  I'd love to see them all before I update the file for the route on TravelMapping. :)

MisterSG1

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 504
  • Civil Engineering Student - Better Late Than Never

  • Age: 34
  • Location: Brampton, ON
  • Last Login: March 21, 2022, 06:38:55 PM
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #822 on: November 03, 2016, 01:53:01 PM »

Here's some I took:

The advance sign on Gardiner WB approaching Jarvis:



As the Gardiner doesn't have the same kind of gore signs as the 400 series highways, in many cases, none at all. They display the exit number at the actual exit as well on the "exit only" signs.



As for what tdindy88 was saying, I believe I recall reading in OTM Book 6 that they explicitly mention to not put exit tabs on the "turn off signs" which I like to call the "exit only" signs. I think it's quite silly myself because I know every other province at least east of here puts exit tabs at the turn offs as well as the entire US as required by MUTCD.


An anomaly which I didn't get a picture of, but when I drove on the Gardiner the Monday right after they were installed, the Spadina exit on EB Gardiner had absolutely nothing except the exit number, no BGSs at all, just the exit number attached to the butterfly gantry. Now there's a temporary small Spadina sign at that exit.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 01:56:34 PM by MisterSG1 »
Logged

Transportfan

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 82
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Wasaga Beach, ON
  • Last Login: January 30, 2022, 04:26:02 PM
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #823 on: November 03, 2016, 05:43:19 PM »

At the end of September, I took a drive up from the GTA into northeastern Ontario and northwestern Quebec to have a look at the early fall colours.  I took some photos and shot a couple of videos of my drive.

I'm surprised you didn't shoot the whole section north from Waubashene. There's no good vids of that stretch on YT except two filmed in crummy weather and time lapsed too fast.

It would be cool to see a southbound vid of the Waubashene-Parry Sound section on a Sunday evening in the summer.   
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 05:45:20 PM by Transportfan »
Logged

rickmastfan67

  • The Invisible One
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3058
  • I want I-67 in PA!!!!

  • Age: 37
  • Location: Pittsburgh, Pa, USA
  • Last Login: Today at 08:45:07 PM
Re: Ontario's Highways
« Reply #824 on: November 03, 2016, 11:57:30 PM »

This is just crazy.  Never thought I'd see the day that the entire length of the Gardiner would have exit numbers posted. :nod:

Now, I wonder if Toronto will do the same with the DVP continuing the {404} scheme. :awesomeface:

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.