Smoke fires and fog again on an interstate

[roadman65]

Earlier this week a bridge fell in Kentucky, but no one was injured.  However, hundreds of miles south of there near Gainesville, FL at least 10 people were killed and dozens were injured when a marsh fire burining near I-75 caused some problems resulting in a major crash on this particular interstate.

Now we all know that fog has played a major part in accidents in Tennessee that once was culprit to a 95 car pile up forcing major changes to the part of I-75 from Chatanooga to Knoxville such as installing gates on the road and at entrances.  Now if conditions prevail the road will be shut down if necessary.  Also variable speed limit signs were also installed.

Then recently on I-4 near Polk City, FL something happened that caused a chain pile up resulting in fatalities making officials in Florida take changes in fog and smoke conditions along the busy corridor. 

Now, obviously this is not enough. I do not know the full story but google for the local TV stations in Gainesville to find out more.  In the meantime, what do you think can be done to prevent this from happening again?  You know everyone ignores the speed limits and most everyone will say that "Oh, I know how to drive, speeding will not effect me in any way" or something to that effect.  In large plain or flat areas prone to fires and fog do we need to change speed limits or close roads more often?  I do not see anything that will help or even reduce future happenings, although in Tennessee I have not heard anything since they made changes there.

[rarnold]

Closing the road is the best option. Allowing the road to remain open and expecting drivers to move to the right shoulder and stop is too much to ask for some. Speed limit is also a factor, and if conditions are favorable for fog or smoke, then they could lower the speed automatically. Some of the driving public do not know how to drive the speed conditions allow, and those people with low common sense abilities have to be accounted for.

[brownpelican]

There was a 40-car pileup with fatalities on I-10 West in New Orleans East earlier this month due to smoke and fog. Yes, visibility was bad, but the main problem I see is drivers going too damn fast in foggy/smoky conditions. You have no business doing 70-80 mph if the visibility is less than 3/4 of a mile.

They need to either start convoys across areas prone to fog/smoke or put up signs that will adjust the speed if visibility were to drop.

[Brian556]

They need to either start convoys across areas prone to fog/smoke or put up signs that will adjust the speed if visibility were to drop.

Interesting idea.
You could take a lesson from construction and use the pilot car method. Stop traffic before the low visibility area and then lead them through with a pilot car at the appropriate speed.

[jwolfer]

There was a 40-car pileup with fatalities on I-10 West in New Orleans East earlier this month due to smoke and fog. Yes, visibility was bad, but the main problem I see is drivers going too damn fast in foggy/smoky conditions. You have no business doing 70-80 mph if the visibility is less than 3/4 of a mile.

They need to either start convoys across areas prone to fog/smoke or put up signs that will adjust the speed if visibility were to drop.

Many will go 90MPH no matter what... or stop for no reason in the travel lanes.  I watch my wife drive and she does not anticiate changes in conditions or traffic at all.  Better drivers ed is needed

[roadman65]

Shoot! I have seen many on the Garden State Parkway do their usual 65 to 70 mph when a snowstorm is taking place.  While I am doing 45 mph (10 mph below the posted speed) I am slipping and sliding and losing control of my vehicle, I am being passed like I am standing still.

[kphoger]

Smoke and snow are two different things.  I used to drive a delivery truck, and my vehicle's greater weight frequently gave me better traction and allowed me to blow by many slower vehicles; tires also make a big difference between one passenger vehicle and the next.  OTOH, limited visibility due to smoke and fog does not change from one vehicle to the next; what is an unsafe speed for one car is unsafe for the next.

I find that drivers going too slowly in fog or smoke create a hazard just as do drivers going too fast.  Haven't you ever come upon a guy going like 30 mph in a 55 zone?  And, in limited visibility, you don't notice his taillights (if he even turned his lights on in the first place) till you're right up on him.

[NE2]

I find that drivers going too slowly in fog or smoke create a hazard just as do drivers going too fast.  Haven't you ever come upon a guy going like 30 mph in a 55 zone?  And, in limited visibility, you don't notice his taillights (if he even turned his lights on in the first place) till you're right up on him.

If you can't stop within your field of vision, it's you who's going too fast.

[kphoger]

I find that drivers going too slowly in fog or smoke create a hazard just as do drivers going too fast.  Haven't you ever come upon a guy going like 30 mph in a 55 zone?  And, in limited visibility, you don't notice his taillights (if he even turned his lights on in the first place) till you're right up on him.

If you can't stop within your field of vision, it's you who's going too fast.

Yeah, it's not like I've ever actually rear-ended someone.  But there have been plenty of times when I was tooling along in the fog and had to step on the brakes with something like, 'Holy shnikies, let's go 30!' coming out of my mouth.  I'd say the hazard created for other traffic in that situation is just as bad as the hazard created for himself if he were going 60.

[mgk920]

I'll second the comment on driving at a speed that will allow you to stop within your field of vision.  Because of all of the clueless drivers who don't, I consider heavy fog (and smoke) to be the most dangerous highway condition of all and in those conditions, I will bail off of the road until things clear.

There was also a 10+ fatal pile-up on I-43 a bit south of Sheboygan, WI (by Cedar Grove, WI) about ten years or so ago.  Yep, everyone overdriving their field of visibility in heavy fog.

I like what CalTrans does on a notoriously foggy section of I-5 in the Stockton, CA (?) area - they will stop all traffic in both directions before the fogbank and then every few minutes send packs of it though behind sets of CHP cruisers (one for each lane) that are acting as 'pace cars'.

Mike

[Kacie Jane]

I find that drivers going too slowly in fog or smoke create a hazard just as do drivers going too fast.  Haven't you ever come upon a guy going like 30 mph in a 55 zone?  And, in limited visibility, you don't notice his taillights (if he even turned his lights on in the first place) till you're right up on him.

If you can't stop within your field of vision, it's you who's going too fast.

Yeah, it's not like I've ever actually rear-ended someone.  But there have been plenty of times when I was tooling along in the fog and had to step on the brakes with something like, 'Holy shnikies, let's go 30!' coming out of my mouth.  I'd say the hazard created for other traffic in that situation is just as bad as the hazard created for himself if he were going 60.

I don't often agree with NE2's over-snarkiness, but I'm totally with him here.  In zero visibility, there's no such thing as too slow.  Imagine if instead of a car traveling legally at a slow speed, it's two cars that have just gotten into a relatively minor fender bender.  People driving too fast to stop in their field of vision is exactly what turns a minor two-car accident into a major 10-car pileup.

If you can't slow down for a car driving maybe a tad too responsibly at 30 mph, how do you expect to stop for car(s) or other stationary hazards blocking your lane?

[Brandon]

I find that drivers going too slowly in fog or smoke create a hazard just as do drivers going too fast.  Haven't you ever come upon a guy going like 30 mph in a 55 zone?  And, in limited visibility, you don't notice his taillights (if he even turned his lights on in the first place) till you're right up on him.

If you can't stop within your field of vision, it's you who's going too fast.

Yeah, it's not like I've ever actually rear-ended someone.  But there have been plenty of times when I was tooling along in the fog and had to step on the brakes with something like, 'Holy shnikies, let's go 30!' coming out of my mouth.  I'd say the hazard created for other traffic in that situation is just as bad as the hazard created for himself if he were going 60.

Agreed.  The ones that slow way down without any lights or their flashers on are extremely dangerous.  Folks, turn your fucking lights on in the fog, snow, rain, or night!

[agentsteel53]

Agreed.  The ones that slow way down without any lights or their flashers on are extremely dangerous.  Folks, turn your fucking lights on in the fog, snow, rain, or night!

whenever I come to a sharper-than-average slowdown or halt, I put on my flashers.  sometimes I even drive a foot or two onto the shoulder or median: even if I am not anticipating not being able to stop in time to avoid the car in front of me without running alongside, anyone behind me can note that something unusual is going on and I'm not just decelerating in an ordinary manner.

[Kacie Jane]

I find that drivers going too slowly in fog or smoke create a hazard just as do drivers going too fast.  Haven't you ever come upon a guy going like 30 mph in a 55 zone?  And, in limited visibility, you don't notice his taillights (if he even turned his lights on in the first place) till you're right up on him.

If you can't stop within your field of vision, it's you who's going too fast.

Yeah, it's not like I've ever actually rear-ended someone.  But there have been plenty of times when I was tooling along in the fog and had to step on the brakes with something like, 'Holy shnikies, let's go 30!' coming out of my mouth.  I'd say the hazard created for other traffic in that situation is just as bad as the hazard created for himself if he were going 60.

Agreed.  The ones that slow way down without any lights or their flashers on are extremely dangerous.  Folks, turn your fucking lights on in the fog, snow, rain, or night!

Okay, yes.  If they're stupid enough to be driving without their lights on, then I'll agree that they're the hazard.

[kphoger]

Agreed.  The ones that slow way down without any lights or their flashers on are extremely dangerous.  Folks, turn your fucking lights on in the fog, snow, rain, or night!

whenever I come to a sharper-than-average slowdown or halt, I put on my flashers.  sometimes I even drive a foot or two onto the shoulder or median: even if I am not anticipating not being able to stop in time to avoid the car in front of me without running alongside, anyone behind me can note that something unusual is going on and I'm not just decelerating in an ordinary manner.

I do this too.  The reason for my shoulder-drift is twofold:  (1) to alert the person behind me that a sudden stop is required, and (2) to allow more room on the mainline in case someone behind me really won't have time to stop and needs to drift to the center of the roadway.  And I leave my hazard lights on until there are two cars stopped behind me.

If adverse weather (or, recently car problems) causes me to drive at less than about 45 mph, I tend to ride or even straddle the shoulder line, also increasing the amount of space for the other cars to 'play' if need be.

I've actually found the worst of the slow-vehicle-fog-hazard drivers on two-lane roads, not freeways.  People who drive the interstates seem to use better common sense, >>in general<<.

[realjd]

They need to either start convoys across areas prone to fog/smoke or put up signs that will adjust the speed if visibility were to drop.

Interesting idea.
You could take a lesson from construction and use the pilot car method. Stop traffic before the low visibility area and then lead them through with a pilot car at the appropriate speed.

Back in 2006 when Florida had crazy fires that closed all of the interstates into the state for an extended period of time, FHP would take convoys of cars through the smoke. It seemed to work well for extended fire closures.