Minnesota Notes

[Great Lakes Roads]

I was driving from Winona to La Crosse on Hwy 14/61, and the SB exit to CR 12/CR 101 in Dakota is signed as EXIT 9.

[froggie]

^ A handful of exit number signs have popped up on non-Interstates besides US 52 in Rochester in recent years.  I just got home from a 2 week trip to Minnesota where they could also be seen on MN 62, US 61, and US 169 and possibly others (I didn't go on every freeway).

[DJ Particle]

Also US-212 within the beltway and the rest of MN-610 have been numbered.

[SkyPesos]

Ugh, MnDOT joined the states running traffic death counters on VMS.

Why is this a bad thing?

Is there a list of states that do this? I know Ohio did it since a long time ago, but unsure about the other states.

[Trademark]

^ A handful of exit number signs have popped up on non-Interstates besides US 52 in Rochester in recent years.  I just got home from a 2 week trip to Minnesota where they could also be seen on MN 62, US 61, and US 169 and possibly others (I didn't go on every freeway).

I wonder if this is going to be the new standard going forward. Like will the Manning Ave exit get a number.

[kphoger]

^ A handful of exit number signs have popped up on non-Interstates besides US 52 in Rochester in recent years.  I just got home from a 2 week trip to Minnesota where they could also be seen on MN 62, US 61, and US 169 and possibly others (I didn't go on every freeway).

I wonder if this is going to be the new standard going forward. Like will the Manning Ave exit get a number.

I thought the practice was recently mandated nationwide.

[Crash_It]

I was recently in the twin cities and noticed that nearly all of the MN state routes are arterial expressways with high speed limits that bypass cities, very nice feature I must say. Is it like this throughout the whole state or just the twin cities area?

[J N Winkler]

I thought the practice [exit numbers on non-Interstate freeways] was recently mandated nationwide.

It was, in MUTCD 2009.  It was reported several years ago that FHWA was not aggressively enforcing this mandate, and many states (including Kansas and Missouri) have taken no steps to comply.  I don't know if FHWA's posture has changed.

Of Minnesota's neighbor states, Iowa and Wisconsin both have exit numbers on non-Interstate freeways as well as a significant mileage of such roads, while the Dakotas have neither.

[Mdcastle]

They're not in a rush to go out and add them to existing signs, but as signs need replacement they're adding exit numbers as standard.

[SkyPesos]

I thought the practice [exit numbers on non-Interstate freeways] was recently mandated nationwide.

It was, in MUTCD 2009.  It was reported several years ago that FHWA was not aggressively enforcing this mandate, and many states (including Kansas and Missouri) have taken no steps to comply.  I don't know if FHWA's posture has changed.

Of Minnesota's neighbor states, Iowa and Wisconsin both have exit numbers on non-Interstate freeways as well as a significant mileage of such roads, while the Dakotas have neither.

Did that statement in the MUTCD also say that the exit numbers have to be state mileage based, instead of county mileage? Asking it because on some non-interstate freeways in Ohio (specifically US 33 Athens), the state used county-based mileage for exit numbers, and later switched over to state-based exit numbers a few years ago.

[J N Winkler]

Did that statement in the MUTCD also say that the exit numbers have to be state mileage based, instead of county mileage? Asking it because on some non-interstate freeways in Ohio (specifically US 33 Athens), the state used county-based mileage for exit numbers, and later switched over to state-based exit numbers a few years ago.

Yes, but with some caveats.  § 2E.31 says that the "reference location sign method shall be used" (i.e., exit numbering must be distance-based, not sequential) for all freeways (not just Interstates).  § 2H.05 (spelling out how reference location signing works) says that "distance numbering shall be continuous for each route within a State, except where overlaps occur."  However, it also says that zero distance "should" be at the south or west state line.  Because this is a "should" statement (guidance) rather than a "shall" statement (standard), the following are permitted:

*  Routes starting at a milepost other than zero (the basis for Arizona's system)

*  Routes with milepointing in opposite sense to the Interstates (the norm for north-south non-Interstates in Texas; also, north-south routes that extend all the way to the north end of the Texas panhandle start with mileposts of 10 or slightly above, as a 10-mile offset is built into the Texas system)

I also don't think there is language that requires that the English mile be used as the unit for location reference signing, so I-19 in Arizona is compliant despite being kilometerposted.

Some state DOTs have put effort into complying with § 2E.31, while others have chased pockets of convenience, e.g. Illinois DOT adding exit numbers to SR 6 in Peoria since it has no extent outside Peoria County (meaning county mileage is also state mileage) but not other freeways like US 34 near Galesburg, or NYSDOT adopting a gradual route-by-route approach so that I-81 gets distance-based exit numbers while the Thruway, Adirondack Northway, and other major routes keep sequential numbering.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

^ A handful of exit number signs have popped up on non-Interstates besides US 52 in Rochester in recent years.  I just got home from a 2 week trip to Minnesota where they could also be seen on MN 62, US 61, and US 169 and possibly others (I didn't go on every freeway).

US 52 between 94 and 494 just got them this summer. A couple isolated left exits were upgraded with them while the rest of the freeway still lacks them, such as US 10 eastbound at I-35W in Blaine, the MN 62 examples at I-35W in Minneapolis you mentioned, and US 52 northbound at the MN 55 split in Inver Grove (the rest of 52 between 494 and 55 still lacks them as of my last drive through there).

[TheHighwayMan3561]

MnDOT will host a street fair in Uptown this Sunday to celebrate the end of major construction on I-35W between Crosstown and 94.

https://www.dot.state.mn.us/35w94/meetings.html?fbclid=IwAR0autnx6OXS-kl6vPlkrAo5swIHLBAkSDK7AGzYQaCxxRnxDSX2X5LzRQk

[SkyPesos]

^ So I'm guessing the Orange Line BRT will launch shortly after opening... Looking through the virtual tour of I-35W, I'm sort of surprised they're not skimping on transit and pedestrian/bike infrastructure in a major freeway project. Especially looking at the Lake Street BRT station.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

^ So I'm guessing the Orange Line BRT will launch shortly after opening... Looking through the virtual tour of I-35W, I'm sort of surprised they're not skimping on transit and pedestrian/bike infrastructure in a major freeway project. Especially looking at the Lake Street BRT station.

The Met Council, MnDOT, and the Minneapolis/St. Paul city governments have been pretty conscious about integrating and expanding transit and bike pathways into existing roadways as well as heavy investment in new bike-only routes over the last 10-15 years. I think it's one reason MSP has had somewhat more muted urbanist resistance to major freeway projects compared to other major cities in recent years.

[froggie]

There's more than that.  Minnesota has a rather stringent municipal consent law.  To oversimplify, local jurisdictions have de facto veto power over most MnDOT road projects.  While MnDOT can certainly bull their way through in some ways (in particular with Interstate projects, though they're required by law to provide written justification for such), municipalities that are dead set on stopping or modifying projects in their jurisdiction generally have the power to do so.  In this case, since the project was entirely within Minneapolis, the city had considerable sway about elements of the project

As an example of municipal consent, there's a reason why what is now US 169 between I-494 and the Minnesota River was initially built with intersections instead of 2 of the current interchanges.  Only later, after the intersections became traffic- and crash-prone, did Eden Prairie finally accept the construction of interchanges.

[Trademark]

^ So I'm guessing the Orange Line BRT will launch shortly after opening... Looking through the virtual tour of I-35W, I'm sort of surprised they're not skimping on transit and pedestrian/bike infrastructure in a major freeway project. Especially looking at the Lake Street BRT station.

The orange line is gonna launch in December.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

It's over at last. All ramps between 35W and 94 are open, and all exits from 35W into south Minneapolis are also open after years being closed. That sucked when the only exit into all of South Minneapolis was the 46th St exit (or 60th St southbound only).

[Trademark]

It's over at last. All ramps between 35W and 94 are open, and all exits from 35W into south Minneapolis are also open after years being closed. That sucked when the only exit into all of South Minneapolis was the 46th St exit (or 60th St southbound only).

As of last night the exits for lake and 28th are still closed. But I'm sure it won't be for long

[Papa Emeritus]

Today's Star Tribune has an article about how Blaine is pushing for highway 65 to be upgraded, and wants funds for the upgrades to be in next year's bonding bill. Here's a link:

https://www.startribune.com/blaine-courts-money-to-improve-traffic-flow-on-hwy-65/600099537/

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Today's Star Tribune has an article about how Blaine is pushing for highway 65 to be upgraded, and wants funds for the upgrades to be in next year's bonding bill. Here's a link:

https://www.startribune.com/blaine-courts-money-to-improve-traffic-flow-on-hwy-65/600099537/

In an ideal world, 65 is made freeway from 694 to CSAH 14/Main St. But it especially needs overhauling between the two 10 junctions from Osborne Rd to 99th. An interchange at 109th would be gravy because of the NSC traffic.

[andarcondadont]

Today's Star Tribune has an article about how Blaine is pushing for highway 65 to be upgraded, and wants funds for the upgrades to be in next year's bonding bill. Here's a link:

https://www.startribune.com/blaine-courts-money-to-improve-traffic-flow-on-hwy-65/600099537/

In an ideal world, 65 is made freeway from 694 to CSAH 14/Main St. But it especially needs overhauling between the two 10 junctions from Osborne Rd to 99th. An interchange at 109th would be gravy because of the NSC traffic.

Alas, this is not an ideal world. Extra turn lanes were added around a year ago to the intersection with 81st Ave when the HyVee development went in.

[Papa Emeritus]

Today's Pioneer Press has an article about how crashes have gone up sharply since the new US 52 bridge in St Paul opened, and MnDoT studies to make the bridge safer:

https://www.twincities.com/2021/09/26/yes-u-s-52-north-at-lafayette-bridge-is-always-a-mess-mndot-has-a-plan/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_content=fb-PioneerPress&fbclid=IwAR3OB207LWyNpUZpJshih-5yJG6wMA8uHqe9KBB_FyO8iuUL8rA06fGRjb0

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Today's Pioneer Press has an article about how crashes have gone up sharply since the new US 52 bridge in St Paul opened, and MnDoT studies to make the bridge safer:

https://www.twincities.com/2021/09/26/yes-u-s-52-north-at-lafayette-bridge-is-always-a-mess-mndot-has-a-plan/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_content=fb-PioneerPress&fbclid=IwAR3OB207LWyNpUZpJshih-5yJG6wMA8uHqe9KBB_FyO8iuUL8rA06fGRjb0

I agree with the basic principle that the signage for the upcoming split is inadequate. You have no idea what lane you need to be in for what movement until you're on the bridge itself, and it's counterintuitive for most drivers going northbound to think they might need to be in the *left lane* to go *east* on 94. Honestly, I would put lane signage in at Plato and at Concord to warn people. EAST 94/10 LEFT LANE, WEST 94/10 - TO 35E and MN 5/7TH ST RIGHT LANE

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Today was also planned to be the day that southbound I-35 is temporarily relocated onto what was its frontage road of Lower Michigan St in Duluth. I hope to get up there Wednesday for fall color viewing if I wake up early enough and check that out too.