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Author Topic: Michigan Notes  (Read 165797 times)

triplemultiplex

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Re: Michigan Notes
« Reply #750 on: January 02, 2022, 12:48:12 PM »

Rather than any sort of bypass, I think Traverse City would benefit from a straighter route connecting it to US 131.  Something that starts on M-113 and then takes as straight shot to County 611 just outside Mayfield, then taking over that county road into Traverse.
I reckon a good chunk of their tourist traffic is coming up 131 so having a straight shot between TC and US 131 would make that connection easier and safer.
I see a high-quality two-lane highway with turn lanes and such at important intersections as sufficient for this task.
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wanderer2575

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Re: Michigan Notes
« Reply #751 on: January 02, 2022, 04:51:51 PM »

MDOT has agreed to reconstruct the counterclockwise "Woodward Loop" in downtown Pontiac during 2024-2025 and convert it to a series of two-way boulevards with slower speed limits and increased pedestrian access and safety.

Apparently this has been in discussions on and off over the past 20 years, but the last time MDOT seriously considered it the city backed out.  Not so now.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2022/01/02/state-unwind-woodward-loop-pontiac-leaders-say-strangles-city/9057673002/

Along with it will be a reconstruction of M-59 through the area.  I wonder if we might see a rerouting of westbound M-59 to remove it from the Loop, as well as rerouting of the I-75 and US-24 business loops.
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JoePCool14

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Re: Michigan Notes
« Reply #752 on: January 02, 2022, 07:05:04 PM »

I've never been to Pontiac, but based on looking around on GMSV, this sounds like a good idea. I agree with the article calling it a psychological moat around downtown. It literally helps people avoid the downtown area, which is quite opposite of what you'd want.

I don't agree with the article's race-baiting though. I think we can talk about the current design being antiquated by saying it's bad for everyone without having to bring race into it.
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CoolAngrybirdsrio4

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Re: Michigan Notes
« Reply #753 on: January 03, 2022, 02:26:41 AM »

How interesting, I've always wondered what the loop was for around Pontiac.
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Flint1979

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Re: Michigan Notes
« Reply #754 on: January 03, 2022, 07:14:00 AM »

The Pontiac Loop really isn't that big of a deal.
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Terry Shea

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Re: Michigan Notes
« Reply #755 on: January 03, 2022, 08:21:04 AM »

The Pontiac Loop really isn't that big of a deal.
Pontiac isn't that big of a deal since The Lions and The Pistons have both exited the area.
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Flint1979

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Re: Michigan Notes
« Reply #756 on: January 03, 2022, 10:14:17 AM »

The Pontiac Loop really isn't that big of a deal.
Pontiac isn't that big of a deal since The Lions and The Pistons have both exited the area.
Pontiac, Flint, Saginaw they all seem about the same to me.
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Papa Emeritus

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Re: Michigan Notes
« Reply #757 on: January 03, 2022, 11:58:25 AM »

How interesting, I've always wondered what the loop was for around Pontiac.

The loop was originally known as "Widetrack Boulevard", when Pontiac Motor Division advertised that their cars had "wide track".

It was designed to keep trucks and workers going north from the GM Truck factories on the south side of Pontiac, or going south from the Pontiac Motor Division assembly complex on the north side of Pontiac, out of downtown. In the 1970s, 86,000 people worked at GM's factories in Pontiac. Now that most of GM's factories in Pontiac have closed, there's a lot less truck and GM employee traffic in Pontiac.
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JREwing78

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Re: Michigan Notes
« Reply #758 on: January 03, 2022, 07:24:44 PM »

Good news: MDOT is going to perform work on I-94 through Battle Creek in 2023
Bad news: Still only 2 lanes each way.

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CoolAngrybirdsrio4

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Re: Michigan Notes
« Reply #759 on: January 04, 2022, 07:37:49 PM »

I don't know what the point of this intersection design with Telegraph & Elizabeth Lake Roads in Pontiac. However, if it gets redesigned to a normal intersection, then it could open up space for retail.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6396867,-83.3236357,1034m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en&authuser=0
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Re: Michigan Notes
« Reply #760 on: January 04, 2022, 07:40:59 PM »

I don't know what the point of this intersection design with Telegraph & Elizabeth Lake Roads in Pontiac. However, if it gets redesigned to a normal intersection, then it could open up space for retail.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6396867,-83.3236357,1034m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en&authuser=0

I'm not entirely sure myself it's still a 4-phase signal, so the side ramps aren't doing anything.

That said, there's nothing preventing the space within the loop from being used for retail.
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Revive 755

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Re: Michigan Notes
« Reply #761 on: January 04, 2022, 10:22:31 PM »

I don't know what the point of this intersection design with Telegraph & Elizabeth Lake Roads in Pontiac. However, if it gets redesigned to a normal intersection, then it could open up space for retail.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6396867,-83.3236357,1034m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en&authuser=0

I'm not entirely sure myself it's still a 4-phase signal, so the side ramps aren't doing anything.

Streetview shows the northbound left being prohibited.   Is/was there some sort of major imbalance between northbound and southbound traffic around there?
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triplemultiplex

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Re: Michigan Notes
« Reply #762 on: January 05, 2022, 09:39:18 AM »

Streetview shows the northbound left being prohibited.   Is/was there some sort of major imbalance between northbound and southbound traffic around there?


I suspect the ghostly outline of a demolished shopping mall in the northwest quadrant of this intersection is your answer.
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GaryV

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Re: Michigan Notes
« Reply #763 on: January 05, 2022, 01:13:58 PM »

There are a couple of these on Van Dyke (M-53) in Warren too, at Chicago Rd and 14 Mile (technically that loop is in Sterling Heights).

I'm not sure what the theory behind them is - something for where a Michigan Left isn't possible?

NB on Van Dyke to WB would originally have had heavy home-bound traffic as the various auto plants and the tank plant south of there had shift changes.
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Ryctor2018

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Re: Michigan Notes
« Reply #764 on: January 05, 2022, 01:21:08 PM »

There are a couple of these on Van Dyke (M-53) in Warren too, at Chicago Rd and 14 Mile (technically that loop is in Sterling Heights).

I'm not sure what the theory behind them is - something for where a Michigan Left isn't possible?

NB on Van Dyke to WB would originally have had heavy home-bound traffic as the various auto plants and the tank plant south of there had shift changes.

There used to be one at Van Dyke & Metro Pkwy: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5663411,-83.0295502,1041m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en&authuser=0

This is 1960's road design. When things were fast n' loose in road construction. Also, Van Dyke probably had more traffic than now because of changing demographics. Not to forget that Mound Road was not expanded as it is now to take the load off M-53.
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kernals12

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Re: Michigan Notes
« Reply #765 on: January 05, 2022, 10:11:06 PM »

WB I-94 is getting closed between I-75 and Connor for bridge replacement in advance of the I-94 widening
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2022/01/05/wb-94-between-75-connor-detroit-close-weekend-construction/9102963002/

This is one of those rare freeway expansion projects that I am skeptical of. The EIS bases the need for the extra lane on a 29%(!) increase in traffic forecast by 2040.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2022, 10:15:55 PM by kernals12 »
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23skidoo

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Re: Michigan Notes
« Reply #766 on: January 06, 2022, 08:20:10 AM »

Streetview shows the northbound left being prohibited.   Is/was there some sort of major imbalance between northbound and southbound traffic around there?


I suspect the ghostly outline of a demolished shopping mall in the northwest quadrant of this intersection is your answer.

That was Summit Place Mall, which closed in 2009 (though the Sears remained open until 2014).
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Ryctor2018

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Re: Michigan Notes
« Reply #767 on: January 06, 2022, 01:45:08 PM »

WB I-94 is getting closed between I-75 and Connor for bridge replacement in advance of the I-94 widening
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2022/01/05/wb-94-between-75-connor-detroit-close-weekend-construction/9102963002/

This is one of those rare freeway expansion projects that I am skeptical of. The EIS bases the need for the extra lane on a 29%(!) increase in traffic forecast by 2040.

You have a point, though the work would need to happen for another reason: life-cycle. You may not know, but this road predates the interstate system. When the highway was built, I-94 did not exist yet. The freeway was only known as the Edsel Ford Freeway. With a 1950's (or even late 40's!) design. Low bridges, narrow shoulders, poor lighting, draining you name it. Even if you don't expand the freeway, you would want a rebuild to bring a 70-year old road into the 21st Century.
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CoolAngrybirdsrio4

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Re: Michigan Notes
« Reply #768 on: January 06, 2022, 02:28:30 PM »

WB I-94 is getting closed between I-75 and Connor for bridge replacement in advance of the I-94 widening
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2022/01/05/wb-94-between-75-connor-detroit-close-weekend-construction/9102963002/

This is one of those rare freeway expansion projects that I am skeptical of. The EIS bases the need for the extra lane on a 29%(!) increase in traffic forecast by 2040.

You have a point, though the work would need to happen for another reason: life-cycle. You may not know, but this road predates the interstate system. When the highway was built, I-94 did not exist yet. The freeway was only known as the Edsel Ford Freeway. With a 1950's (or even late 40's!) design. Low bridges, narrow shoulders, poor lighting, draining you name it. Even if you don't expand the freeway, you would want a rebuild to bring a 70-year old road into the 21st Century.

I remembered a few times that I was on Interstate 94 in Detroit a couple of years ago and some of the lights were completely out.
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thenetwork

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Re: Michigan Notes
« Reply #769 on: January 07, 2022, 06:40:01 PM »

WB I-94 is getting closed between I-75 and Connor for bridge replacement in advance of the I-94 widening
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2022/01/05/wb-94-between-75-connor-detroit-close-weekend-construction/9102963002/

This is one of those rare freeway expansion projects that I am skeptical of. The EIS bases the need for the extra lane on a 29%(!) increase in traffic forecast by 2040.

You have a point, though the work would need to happen for another reason: life-cycle. You may not know, but this road predates the interstate system. When the highway was built, I-94 did not exist yet. The freeway was only known as the Edsel Ford Freeway. With a 1950's (or even late 40's!) design. Low bridges, narrow shoulders, poor lighting, draining you name it. Even if you don't expand the freeway, you would want a rebuild to bring a 70-year old road into the 21st Century.

I remembered a few times that I was on Interstate 94 in Detroit a couple of years ago and some of the lights were completely out.

For a while there, the big thing in Detroit was people actually stealing the copper wiring in the streetlight systems.
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Flint1979

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Re: Michigan Notes
« Reply #770 on: January 07, 2022, 08:55:41 PM »

I-94 has been in dire need of an upgrade throughout the entire state. It drops from six lanes to four lanes after the I-196 interchange then widens back to six lanes in the Kalamazoo area for a few miles, then back down to four lanes through Jackson and into Ann Arbor then regain six lanes through Detroit and four lanes again after leaving the Detroit area heading to Port Huron.

It should remain six lanes all the way from where it becomes four lanes at I-196 all the way to about the Belleville area and then become eight lanes into Detroit, between I-96 and Conner it should be ten lanes then back down to eight lanes after Conner to 23 Mile where it'd go back to six lanes the rest of the way to Port Huron. I'm super tired of sitting in a mess on I-94 every damn time I use the highway it's always clogged up with truck traffic that is barely moving highway speeds and holding a bunch of traffic up. I-94 is outdated throughout the entire state if you ask me.

Same with US-23 all the way from Flint to Toledo it's nothing but a bottleneck every day it's ridiculous that MDOT has done nothing to improve this highway other than add a stupid flex lane bullshit that they think solves the traffic problems. US-23 is outdated and has traffic volumes that exceed 70,000 VPD and it's four freaking lanes for a majority of the trip between Flint and the Ohio line, what Ohio does is on them.

Both these have been problems for years and MDOT has done very little to improve the quality of these corridors. US-23 has become an alternate route of I-75 and a western bypass of the Detroit area for long distance traffic on I-75 that doesn't have any stops in between Flint and Perrysburg. It isn't quite as bad south of Ann Arbor like through Milan and Dundee but north of Ann Arbor and through Ann Arbor it's a nightmare.
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CoolAngrybirdsrio4

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Re: Michigan Notes
« Reply #771 on: January 07, 2022, 09:08:35 PM »

I-94 has been in dire need of an upgrade throughout the entire state. It drops from six lanes to four lanes after the I-196 interchange then widens back to six lanes in the Kalamazoo area for a few miles, then back down to four lanes through Jackson and into Ann Arbor then regain six lanes through Detroit and four lanes again after leaving the Detroit area heading to Port Huron.

It should remain six lanes all the way from where it becomes four lanes at I-196 all the way to about the Belleville area and then become eight lanes into Detroit, between I-96 and Conner it should be ten lanes then back down to eight lanes after Conner to 23 Mile where it'd go back to six lanes the rest of the way to Port Huron. I'm super tired of sitting in a mess on I-94 every damn time I use the highway it's always clogged up with truck traffic that is barely moving highway speeds and holding a bunch of traffic up. I-94 is outdated throughout the entire state if you ask me.

Same with US-23 all the way from Flint to Toledo it's nothing but a bottleneck every day it's ridiculous that MDOT has done nothing to improve this highway other than add a stupid flex lane bullshit that they think solves the traffic problems. US-23 is outdated and has traffic volumes that exceed 70,000 VPD and it's four freaking lanes for a majority of the trip between Flint and the Ohio line, what Ohio does is on them.

Both these have been problems for years and MDOT has done very little to improve the quality of these corridors. US-23 has become an alternate route of I-75 and a western bypass of the Detroit area for long distance traffic on I-75 that doesn't have any stops in between Flint and Perrysburg. It isn't quite as bad south of Ann Arbor like through Milan and Dundee but north of Ann Arbor and through Ann Arbor it's a nightmare.

I personally think I-94 should be upgraded from Baker Road in Ann Arbor all the way to 26 Mile Road in Lenox Township in Macomb County to 6 lanes. Additionally, I entirely agree that US 23 should be upgraded to six lanes, especially in Ann Arbor and all the way to Interstate 96 from Interstate 94, since the traffic is an absolute nightmare at the peak of traffic.
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Ryctor2018

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Re: Michigan Notes
« Reply #773 on: January 30, 2022, 11:40:31 AM »

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GaryV

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Re: Michigan Notes
« Reply #774 on: January 30, 2022, 12:42:55 PM »

From a few days ago: http://www.modernize75.com/activity-by-segment/segment3/weekly-updates/20225120-mdot-receives-federal-approval-to-build-innovative-interchange-at-i-75-and-12-mile-road/

Innovative? DDI's aren't really that innovative anymore. They even mention the 2 DDI's that have already been built just to the north. Plus there's an older one in Auburn Hills on University Drive.
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