Why is AR 59 so close to US 59?

[bugo]

In Siloam Springs/West Siloam Springs, US 59 is only about 2 miles from AR 59.  They parallel each other for AR 59's entire length.  At most the two highways are 25 miles apart from each other, and most of the route of AR 59 is much closer to US 59 than that.  I wonder what the history behind this is.  Could Arkansas have been competing with Oklahoma for the route, have lost, and signed the number 59 anyway out of spite?  I read something about US 59 being routed down AR 59 for a year or less, but I've never seen it on a map so that is only hearsay.  What's the story?

What are some other instances of two parallel routes with the same number?  I know I-64 parallels IN 64 in southern Indiana.

[agentsteel53]

there are the dueling 95s - AZ 95 and US 95.  Arizona indeed wanted US-95, but failed to get it, until in 1962 when it was extended from Blythe, CA to Quartzsite and then down to Yuma and San Luis.  so now there is the horror in Quartzsite of a US-95/AZ-95 junction.

[corco]

US-89 and Wyoming 89. Wyoming really wanted US-89 but didn't get it, and still proudly proclaims Wyoming 89 to be the fastest route from Yellowstone to Salt Lake City (which it probably is).

There isn't quite a US-89/WYO 89 junction- US-89 first goes into Idaho and then Idaho 61 connects it to WYO 89. Idaho 61 used to be signed as TO WYO 89 when headed southbound on US-89, but the WYO 89 shield fell off a bit over a year ago and to my knowledge it was never replaced. Traffic is directed from there to follow US-89 South to Salt Lake and WYO 89 to Cokeville and Kemmerer. There is also a JUCNTION WYO 89 2 miles shield on US-89 just before the Idaho line, but when you drive two miles you come to Idaho 61.  Just after the turn on Idaho 61 is a TO WYO 89 shield, and the road enters Wyoming about 300 yards later. It then dips into Utah via SR-30 and SR-16, but is not signed as TO WYO 89 to my knowledge (it is signed as the route to Salt Lake, however). When SR-16 goes back into Wyoming, WYO 89 shields pop back up.  

There's also Colorado SHs 36 and 40- fully signed routes that follow the former paths of their US Route counterparts, while their US routes hang out completely unsigned along I-70.

[Revive 755]

I'm guessing the WY/US 89, AZ/US 95, and AR/US 59 situations occurred after the prohibition on split US routes.  Otherwise those seem like logical places to have started out with a US 89E/W and such.

[agentsteel53]

AZ 95 and CA 195 were in place by the 1930s, awaiting the expansion of US-95 down one or the other corridor, which took place in 1940.  I believe the split routes were discouraged starting in 1934, but the official ban preventing new ones from being designated took place only in 1944 or so.

[TheStranger]

AZ 95 and CA 195 were in place by the 1930s, awaiting the expansion of US-95 down one or the other corridor, which took place in 1940.  I believe the split routes were discouraged starting in 1934, but the official ban preventing new ones from being designated took place only in 1944 or so.

This is why I've always been surprised that the Interstates started out with suffixed routes as well - and that 85% of them were not parallel splits!

[agentsteel53]

This is why I've always been surprised that the Interstates started out with suffixed routes as well - and that 85% of them were not parallel splits!

I've always thought that was odd too - maybe they figured they'd give it another try and the second time around it would be less confusing?

[TheStranger]

This is why I've always been surprised that the Interstates started out with suffixed routes as well - and that 85% of them were not parallel splits!

I've always thought that was odd too - maybe they figured they'd give it another try and the second time around it would be less confusing?

Except the suffixed spurs seem to actually have introduced more - not less - confusion!  The suffixed loops IMO have always been a very logical approach to route numbering (which is why, from what I recall reading on the web, today's Interstate H201 was originally submitted as H1A).

The suffixed spurs appear to have been used as an attempt to not whittle down the available 2di numbers, a situation created by the inability to use I-50 or I-60 in creating the Interstate grid alongside the US grid.

[agentsteel53]

Except the suffixed spurs seem to actually have introduced more - not less - confusion!  The suffixed loops IMO have always been a very logical approach to route numbering

Idaho I-15E was especially poorly thought out, I thought.  Not only did it connect to another suffixed route - 80N - but it headed east-west (illogical for an odd number).  86 is a better number, but it's probably best served as a three-digit route like I-584 or something.

(which is why, from what I recall reading on the web, today's Interstate H201 was originally submitted as H1A)

have there ever been any A-suffix interstate routes?  I've read about a potential I-59B as the original number of I-459 in Birmingham (B for bypass) but it seems to have been the product of Rand McNally's overactive imagination and was never such in the field. 

201 would be a perfectly good number for the route in Hawaii.  Just as the Boise spur of I-80N was simply I-180, and not I-180N, before it became renumbered to I-184, it seems a bit silly to perpetuate the H when not particularly needed.  (The H is, in general, quite silly to begin with.)

The suffixed spurs appear to have been used as an attempt to not whittle down the available 2di numbers, a situation created by the inability to use I-50 or I-60 in creating the Interstate grid alongside the US grid.

the main problem is not with the evens, but with the odds.  Careless planning in the 20s and 30s caused a great pileup in the east.  I-55 should be, ideally, numbered I-35, if not I-25.  (And I-45 is just an awful waste of an x5 that would've made sense as I-221 or so.)

The only reason the US routes do not suffer a similar crunch is because so many primary north-south routes in the east are three digit numbers.  231, 301, 441, etc.

[TheStranger]

Except the suffixed spurs seem to actually have introduced more - not less - confusion!  The suffixed loops IMO have always been a very logical approach to route numbering

Idaho I-15E was especially poorly thought out, I thought.  Not only did it connect to another suffixed route - 80N - but it headed east-west (illogical for an odd number).  86 is a better number, but it's probably best served as a three-digit route like I-584 or something.

15W actually.  It reminds me of US 6N in Pennsylvania (though with 6N, with some creativity, that could actually make half of a good loop, which 15W never did)

A similar route to I-15W was I-90N (now I-190) in Buffalo/Niagara Falls, and I recall - but can't say for sure - that there was a I-95E along today's I-195 in Rhode Island/Massachussetts. 

(which is why, from what I recall reading on the web, today's Interstate H201 was originally submitted as H1A)

have there ever been any A-suffix interstate routes?  I've read about a potential I-59B as the original number of I-459 in Birmingham (B for bypass) but it seems to have been the product of Rand McNally's overactive imagination and was never such in the field. 

I'm not sure if there were any other A-suffix routes, H1A and 59B are the only ones I know of that weren't the directionals.

The suffixed spurs appear to have been used as an attempt to not whittle down the available 2di numbers, a situation created by the inability to use I-50 or I-60 in creating the Interstate grid alongside the US grid.

the main problem is not with the evens, but with the odds.  Careless planning in the 20s and 30s caused a great pileup in the east.  I-55 should be, ideally, numbered I-35, if not I-25.  (And I-45 is just an awful waste of an x5 that would've made sense as I-221 or so.)

The only reason the US routes do not suffer a similar crunch is because so many primary north-south routes in the east are three digit numbers.  231, 301, 441, etc.

Another reason the US routes don't have a crunch is that the grid system isn't that strict beyond the x0 and x1 routes really - which is a good thing, allowing for a lot more routing freedom (i.e. US 66, US 62).  i.e. the Interstate paralleling US 11 should have also had one number, instead of two (59 and 81), and that would free up at least one in the Northeast!

[agentsteel53]

15W actually.  It reminds me of US 6N in Pennsylvania (though with 6N, with some creativity, that could actually make half of a good loop, which 15W never did)

whoops, typoed that one.  Except 6N still generally goes east-west, in line with what an even-number US should do.

A similar route to I-15W was I-90N (now I-190) in Buffalo/Niagara Falls, and I recall - but can't say for sure - that there was a I-95E along today's I-195 in Rhode Island/Massachussetts. 

I have never seen field signage of either of those.  I-95E was, I think, only on the 1957 plan, and not the 1958.  I don't remember if I-90 was on the 1958 - was definitely on the 1957.  The 1957 featured a lot of routes that were changed, like I-31 as the northern leg of I-29 (with a middle section missing entirely).

Another reason the US routes don't have a crunch is that the grid system isn't that strict beyond the x0 and x1 routes really - which is a good thing, allowing for a lot more routing freedom (i.e. US 66, US 62).  i.e. the Interstate paralleling US 11 should have also had one number, instead of two (59 and 81), and that would free up at least one in the Northeast!

I-59/81 indeed should have one number.  However, there are a few interstate numbers that are kinda wasted on routes better numbered with three digits (37, 43, 45, 83, 97, probably several others I'm not thinking of) and then 73 just needs to shit or get off the pot, as they say ...

[TheStranger]

15W actually.  It reminds me of US 6N in Pennsylvania (though with 6N, with some creativity, that could actually make half of a good loop, which 15W never did)

whoops, typoed that one.  Except 6N still generally goes east-west, in line with what an even-number US should do.

Exactly - and one can go from the west end of US 6N logically back to US 6, via PA 226, OH 84, OH 193 and US 20.

(OT: Can someone tell me why Google Maps can easily sign the 6N shield, but cannot do business or alternate routes properly?  Grr.)

Another reason the US routes don't have a crunch is that the grid system isn't that strict beyond the x0 and x1 routes really - which is a good thing, allowing for a lot more routing freedom (i.e. US 66, US 62).  i.e. the Interstate paralleling US 11 should have also had one number, instead of two (59 and 81), and that would free up at least one in the Northeast!

I-59/81 indeed should have one number.  However, there are a few interstate numbers that are kinda wasted on routes better numbered with three digits (37, 43, 45, 83, 97, probably several others I'm not thinking of) and then 73 just needs to shit or get off the pot, as they say ...

Don't forget 19! 

At least 83 crosses state lines, which the others listed don't.

[agentsteel53]

(OT: Can someone tell me why Google Maps can easily sign the 6N shield, but cannot do business or alternate routes properly?  Grr.)

do you mean by suffixing them with A, B, etc?  That would be easy.  Bannering them would require building an entirely new functionality.

[TheStranger]

(OT: Can someone tell me why Google Maps can easily sign the 6N shield, but cannot do business or alternate routes properly?  Grr.)

do you mean by suffixing them with A, B, etc?  That would be easy.  Bannering them would require building an entirely new functionality.

Yeah, suffixing them with A and B.  I can understand where B would be a problem though for "Bypass," but couldn't that be "xxBYP" then?  And Truck routes would also be easy as well (T).

[rickmastfan67]

(OT: Can someone tell me why Google Maps can easily sign the 6N shield, but cannot do business or alternate routes properly?  Grr.)

do you mean by suffixing them with A, B, etc?  That would be easy.  Bannering them would require building an entirely new functionality.

Yet Google can't add letters to the state route bubbles.....  FL-9A needs one, yet unless you read the text along the highway, you wouldn't know if that highway had a number or not.....

[Scott5114]

(OT: Can someone tell me why Google Maps can easily sign the 6N shield, but cannot do business or alternate routes properly?  Grr.)

do you mean by suffixing them with A, B, etc?  That would be easy.  Bannering them would require building an entirely new functionality.

Yet Google can't add letters to the state route bubbles.....  FL-9A needs one, yet unless you read the text along the highway, you wouldn't know if that highway had a number or not.....

That's odd. They used to be able to do that. Now OK-74B is "Oklahoma 74B Spur", spelled out as if it were a street name, 74C is "Oklahoma 74C Spur", and 251A is "Oklahoma 251A".

[US71]

In Siloam Springs/West Siloam Springs, US 59 is only about 2 miles from AR 59.  They parallel each other for AR 59's entire length.  At most the two highways are 25 miles apart from each other, and most of the route of AR 59 is much closer to US 59 than that.  I wonder what the history behind this is.  Could Arkansas have been competing with Oklahoma for the route, have lost, and signed the number 59 anyway out of spite?  I read something about US 59 being routed down AR 59 for a year or less, but I've never seen it on a map so that is only hearsay.  What's the story?

I have a map someplace that shows AR 59 south of Summers (possibly Siloam Springs) was Detour US 59. What is now US 59 in Oklahoma was under construction.  I DO know AR 59 superseded AR 45 south of the Dutch Mills/Morrow area to Ft Smith.

[okroads]

In Van Buren, AR 59 is erroneously signed as U.S. 59:

[rickmastfan67]

(OT: Can someone tell me why Google Maps can easily sign the 6N shield, but cannot do business or alternate routes properly?  Grr.)

do you mean by suffixing them with A, B, etc?  That would be easy.  Bannering them would require building an entirely new functionality.

Yet Google can't add letters to the state route bubbles.....  FL-9A needs one, yet unless you read the text along the highway, you wouldn't know if that highway had a number or not.....

That's odd. They used to be able to do that. Now OK-74B is "Oklahoma 74B Spur", spelled out as if it were a street name, 74C is "Oklahoma 74C Spur", and 251A is "Oklahoma 251A".

I know.  It just doesn't make sense. 

[US71]

I know.  It just doesn't make sense. 

Google? Make sense?

[cjk374]

Speaking of 59...you have the famous pairing of I-59 and LA 59 that are very close to each other (I don't know the distances).  In fact, on I-12 east, the exit for LA 59 has trailblazers for I-59 both before the off-ramp and down at the end of the off-ramp:

TO
I-59 (shield)
up-arrow

[NE2]

Idaho I-15E was especially poorly thought out, I thought.  Not only did it connect to another suffixed route - 80N - but it headed east-west (illogical for an odd number).  86 is a better number, but it's probably best served as a three-digit route like I-584 or something.

3DIs were initially for routes only in a single metropolitan area, as the intercity routes were numbered before they finalized the 3DI numbering system. Hence I-195 in RI/MA was briefly I-95E, for example.

[jwolfer]

Florida  SR 10 and Interstate 10 run next to each other and cross a few times.  Although most of SR 10 is secret( under US 90) and unsigned.  East of Jacksonville SR 10 is signed along Atlantic Blvd.  The secret number for US 90 east of Jax is SR 212.