New Jersey Turnpike

[SignBridge]

I'm as curious as everyone else about why NJTA uses tapered acceleration lanes instead of the more common parallel acceleration lanes, which I think are safer. I don't think I've ever seen this on any other highway built to modern standards.

[jeffandnicole]

can anyone explain how the Merge lanes on the Tpke acually work being that there like 400 feet long

They are 1200 feet long, actually. The taper starts before the gore lines end but when you have a view of what you're merging into. About 600 feet of the taper is at least 10' wide and then the rest of the taper gradually feeds you into traffic.

That's an error in their perception of how drivers think. Most people aren't thinking about merging until the gore line ends, especially since they are the extra wide ones of the Turnpike. The average driver wants to be parallel to the next lane before judging their ability to merge.

Citation needed.  Especially when you said *most* drivers....followed by *the average driver*.

[famartin]

can anyone explain how the Merge lanes on the Tpke acually work being that there like 400 feet long

They are 1200 feet long, actually. The taper starts before the gore lines end but when you have a view of what you're merging into. About 600 feet of the taper is at least 10' wide and then the rest of the taper gradually feeds you into traffic.

That's an error in their perception of how drivers think. Most people aren't thinking about merging until the gore line ends, especially since they are the extra wide ones of the Turnpike. The average driver wants to be parallel to the next lane before judging their ability to merge.

Citation needed.  Especially when you said *most* drivers....followed by *the average driver*.

Fine, "In Our Opinion", Mr. Turnpike Lover. 

[jeffandnicole]

can anyone explain how the Merge lanes on the Tpke acually work being that there like 400 feet long

They are 1200 feet long, actually. The taper starts before the gore lines end but when you have a view of what you're merging into. About 600 feet of the taper is at least 10' wide and then the rest of the taper gradually feeds you into traffic.

That's an error in their perception of how drivers think. Most people aren't thinking about merging until the gore line ends, especially since they are the extra wide ones of the Turnpike. The average driver wants to be parallel to the next lane before judging their ability to merge.

Citation needed.  Especially when you said *most* drivers....followed by *the average driver*.

Fine, "In Our Opinion", Mr. Turnpike Lover. 

"Mr. Turnpike Lover" rarely uses the Turnpike. And who is "our"?  Stats would show if they're truly more dangerous...or less dangerous.

We could start by using your observations...how many accidents have you seen at the on ramps?

[famartin]

can anyone explain how the Merge lanes on the Tpke acually work being that there like 400 feet long

They are 1200 feet long, actually. The taper starts before the gore lines end but when you have a view of what you're merging into. About 600 feet of the taper is at least 10' wide and then the rest of the taper gradually feeds you into traffic.

That's an error in their perception of how drivers think. Most people aren't thinking about merging until the gore line ends, especially since they are the extra wide ones of the Turnpike. The average driver wants to be parallel to the next lane before judging their ability to merge.

Citation needed.  Especially when you said *most* drivers....followed by *the average driver*.

Fine, "In Our Opinion", Mr. Turnpike Lover. 

"Mr. Turnpike Lover" rarely uses the Turnpike. And who is "our"?  Stats would show if they're truly more dangerous...or less dangerous.

We could start by using your observations...how many accidents have you seen at the on ramps?

Yes, but "Mr. Turnpike Lover" did used to work as a toll taker on the turnpike. So, just perhaps, not a completely unbiased opinion.

"Our" would be me, SignBridge and fmendes, since we all seemed to be on the same page in this thread.

I generally don't see accidents at onramps, period, on or off the turnpike, so I can't say either way. I just know what feels comfortable, and as the turnpike method is not commonly used elsewhere, its unusual, and therefore uncomfortable. I suppose if you drove the turnpike all the time and were used to its ramp config, then it wouldn't feel so uncomfortable.

Don't get me wrong, NJTA does a hell of a job overall, especially compared to a certain PTC just across the state line, but they're not perfect. No one is.

[vdeane]

can anyone explain how the Merge lanes on the Tpke acually work being that there like 400 feet long

They are 1200 feet long, actually. The taper starts before the gore lines end but when you have a view of what you're merging into. About 600 feet of the taper is at least 10' wide and then the rest of the taper gradually feeds you into traffic.

That's an error in their perception of how drivers think. Most people aren't thinking about merging until the gore line ends, especially since they are the extra wide ones of the Turnpike. The average driver wants to be parallel to the next lane before judging their ability to merge.

That explains why there are so many idiots who merge onto the interstate at 40 and make no attempt to slip into a natural gap.  Perhaps they need to learn how to drive properly.

If I had my way, freeway driving would be on the road test, and improper merging would be an automatic fail (just like rolling through a stop sign is here in NY).

I'm as curious as everyone else about why NJTA uses tapered acceleration lanes instead of the more common parallel acceleration lanes, which I think are safer. I don't think I've ever seen this on any other highway built to modern standards.

https://goo.gl/maps/95HJXBK4chRdmPjf9

[SignBridge]

Thanks vdeane. LOL First time I've ever seen NYSDOT do that with an acceleration lane. Though I have seen them use tapered deceleration lanes in a few places on Long Island which interestingly NJTA does not do.

[famartin]

Thanks vdeane. LOL First time I've ever seen NYSDOT do that with an acceleration lane. Though I have seen them use tapered deceleration lanes in a few places on Long Island which interestingly NJTA does not do.

Call me crazy, but tapered deceleration lanes seem to make way more sense and feel much safer.

The problem with tapered acceleration lanes is that they suggest a single merge point, versus a parallel lane where you can merge as soon as you have the gap. You have more merge freedom in a parallel lane versus a tapered lane.

[Alps]

I'm as curious as everyone else about why NJTA uses tapered acceleration lanes instead of the more common parallel acceleration lanes, which I think are safer. I don't think I've ever seen this on any other highway built to modern standards.

It's not the only place, but both are actually still supported in engineering standards that I've seen.

[ilpt4u]

I'm as curious as everyone else about why NJTA uses tapered acceleration lanes instead of the more common parallel acceleration lanes, which I think are safer. I don't think I've ever seen this on any other highway built to modern standards.

I'm pretty sure ISTHA commonly uses tapered acceleration lanes - the Sat views on Google of NJTP Entrance Ramps looks just like ISTHA Entrance Ramps, unless I'm missing something

And yes, I always knew driving, that ISTHA's Entrance Ramps/Acceleration Lanes joining the Tollways are different than IDOT's - I just didn't know the fancy terminology of tapered vs parallel

[jeffandnicole]

can anyone explain how the Merge lanes on the Tpke acually work being that there like 400 feet long

They are 1200 feet long, actually. The taper starts before the gore lines end but when you have a view of what you're merging into. About 600 feet of the taper is at least 10' wide and then the rest of the taper gradually feeds you into traffic.

That's an error in their perception of how drivers think. Most people aren't thinking about merging until the gore line ends, especially since they are the extra wide ones of the Turnpike. The average driver wants to be parallel to the next lane before judging their ability to merge.

Citation needed.  Especially when you said *most* drivers....followed by *the average driver*.

Fine, "In Our Opinion", Mr. Turnpike Lover. 

"Mr. Turnpike Lover" rarely uses the Turnpike. And who is "our"?  Stats would show if they're truly more dangerous...or less dangerous.

We could start by using your observations...how many accidents have you seen at the on ramps?

Yes, but "Mr. Turnpike Lover" did used to work as a toll taker on the turnpike. So, just perhaps, not a completely unbiased opinion.

"Our" would be me, SignBridge and fmendes, since we all seemed to be on the same page in this thread.

I generally don't see accidents at onramps, period, on or off the turnpike, so I can't say either way. I just know what feels comfortable, and as the turnpike method is not commonly used elsewhere, its unusual, and therefore uncomfortable. I suppose if you drove the turnpike all the time and were used to its ramp config, then it wouldn't feel so uncomfortable.

Don't get me wrong, NJTA does a hell of a job overall, especially compared to a certain PTC just across the state line, but they're not perfect. No one is.

You're right...I worked the Turnpike. In a toll booth. I can tell a whole bunch of stories about people that came thru the toll plaza. How that translates into that I'm all supportive of all things Turnpike though, that's you continuing to throwing wild accusations without any proof.

However, deep in some public comment section of the widening study, you'll find that I actually talked about this very subject, and discussed my belief that they should use the more standardized accel lane.  I've encouraged people here to go to public meetings...I can't recall one person who actually has done so.

If you notice, I didn't say you were wrong. I asked for your proof, which you could be unable to peovise as "most" and "average" would be 2 different amounts, unless the average happened to be the mode, which happened to be most.

You then decided to nickname me, change your to to "our" opinion, cite 2 other people that also have absolutely no proof and then admit you haven't even seen an accident at an onramp, all non-sequtiors to distract from the fact that you still never justified anything other than its personal opinion.

[famartin]

can anyone explain how the Merge lanes on the Tpke acually work being that there like 400 feet long

They are 1200 feet long, actually. The taper starts before the gore lines end but when you have a view of what you're merging into. About 600 feet of the taper is at least 10' wide and then the rest of the taper gradually feeds you into traffic.

That's an error in their perception of how drivers think. Most people aren't thinking about merging until the gore line ends, especially since they are the extra wide ones of the Turnpike. The average driver wants to be parallel to the next lane before judging their ability to merge.

Citation needed.  Especially when you said *most* drivers....followed by *the average driver*.

Fine, "In Our Opinion", Mr. Turnpike Lover. 

"Mr. Turnpike Lover" rarely uses the Turnpike. And who is "our"?  Stats would show if they're truly more dangerous...or less dangerous.

We could start by using your observations...how many accidents have you seen at the on ramps?

Yes, but "Mr. Turnpike Lover" did used to work as a toll taker on the turnpike. So, just perhaps, not a completely unbiased opinion.

"Our" would be me, SignBridge and fmendes, since we all seemed to be on the same page in this thread.

I generally don't see accidents at onramps, period, on or off the turnpike, so I can't say either way. I just know what feels comfortable, and as the turnpike method is not commonly used elsewhere, its unusual, and therefore uncomfortable. I suppose if you drove the turnpike all the time and were used to its ramp config, then it wouldn't feel so uncomfortable.

Don't get me wrong, NJTA does a hell of a job overall, especially compared to a certain PTC just across the state line, but they're not perfect. No one is.

However, deep in some public comment section of the widening study, you'll find that I actually talked about this very subject, and discussed my belief that they should use the more standardized accel lane. 

Thanks for admitting that you were arguing for no point than to argue.

[jeffandnicole]

Thanks for admitting that you were arguing for no point than to argue.

Big difference between me discussing it, and you proclaiming you know what everyone likes.

[famartin]

Thanks for admitting that you were arguing for no point than to argue.

Big difference between me discussing it, and you proclaiming you know what everyone likes.

You agree with my perception but still argue it. What is wrong with you old man? Seriously... Instead of demanding some kind of statistics, deliberately making a fuss, you could've just said "Yeah I've argued the NJTA should adopt standard merge lanes too". You used to be a nice guy 20 years ago, man you've changed... Whatever, I'm done.

[jeffandnicole]

Thanks for admitting that you were arguing for no point than to argue.

Big difference between me discussing it, and you proclaiming you know what everyone likes.

You agree with my perception but still argue it. What is wrong with you old man? Seriously... Instead of demanding some kind of statistics, deliberately making a fuss, you could've just said "Yeah I've argued the NJTA should adopt standard merge lanes too".

I didn't say I agreed with you. I said I discussed my belief with them. They responded in a manner that swayed my opinion to a more neutral stance on their usage.

All I asked for was some stats. You deflected every time.

You used to be a nice guy 20 years ago, man you've changed...

Nice guy = I agree with you.

Whatever, I'm done.

Cool.

[famartin]

Thanks for admitting that you were arguing for no point than to argue.

Big difference between me discussing it, and you proclaiming you know what everyone likes.

You agree with my perception but still argue it. What is wrong with you old man? Seriously... Instead of demanding some kind of statistics, deliberately making a fuss, you could've just said "Yeah I've argued the NJTA should adopt standard merge lanes too".

I didn't say I agreed with you. I said I discussed my belief with them. They responded in a manner that swayed my opinion to a more neutral stance on their usage.

All I asked for was some stats. You deflected every time.

You used to be a nice guy 20 years ago, man you've changed...

Nice guy = I agree with you.

Whatever, I'm done.

Cool.

Oh? So what were those arguments that your masters st the NJTA used which led you to a more neutral stance? You have yet to share them, as far as I can see. Maybe you could've led with them instead of demanding stats from me.

[Rothman]

Thanks for admitting that you were arguing for no point than to argue.

Big difference between me discussing it, and you proclaiming you know what everyone likes.

You agree with my perception but still argue it. What is wrong with you old man? Seriously... Instead of demanding some kind of statistics, deliberately making a fuss, you could've just said "Yeah I've argued the NJTA should adopt standard merge lanes too".

I didn't say I agreed with you. I said I discussed my belief with them. They responded in a manner that swayed my opinion to a more neutral stance on their usage.

All I asked for was some stats. You deflected every time.

You used to be a nice guy 20 years ago, man you've changed...

Nice guy = I agree with you.

Whatever, I'm done.

Cool.

Oh? So what were those arguments that your masters st the NJTA used which led you to a more neutral stance? You have yet to share them, as far as I can see. Maybe you could've led with them instead of demanding stats from me.

People who say they're done when they're not are silly people.

[Roadgeekteen]

Am I the only one who thinks that the NJ Turnpike needs more exits?

[sprjus4]

Perhaps north of I-195, along with maybe a connection at NJ-42. Otherwise, I-295 provides the mainly local interstate highway route while the Turnpike is exclusively through traffic. I suggest NJ-42 because it serves as a connection for long distance traffic to the Atlantic City Expressway heading east.

[jeffandnicole]

Am I the only one who thinks that the NJ Turnpike needs more exits?

The original idea of these turnpikes, which came before the interstate system, was to provide long haul driving options. You see it in the PA Turnpike as well. It was figured local roads would be utilized for shorter distances. Over the years, people got used to driving on interstates even if it was for just a few miles.

That said, and as already mentioned, there has always been a strong desire for there to be an interchange with the Turnpike and NJ 42. Especially in conjunction with that along with a widened Turnpike between Exits 1 & 4, I would love to see one or two sets of ramps that would motorists to connect directly with 295 to bypass congestion, especially in the Burlington/Camden County areas.

If I were to add more, placing one on NJ 45 and NJ 38 would be nice. There's also a surprising distance between 8A and 9, but not familiar with that area enough to know if one would be useful or where it could go.

I just read today that a new Chipotle restaurant is going to be built on NJ 168 between I-295 (Exit 28) and the Turnpike (Exit 3), about a 0.75 mile distance with 1 lane per direction and no room for expansion. That's already sent people in a tizzy commenting about all the congestion on 168 and at those interchanges.

[NoGoodNamesAvailable]

Admittedly I rarely go south of woodbridge, but I think the exit spacing on the turnpike is fine. The NY thruway is an example of a toll road with too few exits.

[famartin]

Perhaps north of I-195, along with maybe a connection at NJ-42. Otherwise, I-295 provides the mainly local interstate highway route while the Turnpike is exclusively through traffic. I suggest NJ-42 because it serves as a connection for long distance traffic to the Atlantic City Expressway heading east.

That will probably be served adequately by the missing moves project, since long distance traffic heading east towards AC can generally take I-295 just as easily. I'm not sure exactly why NJDOT and NJTA never built an interchange when the 42 freeway was constructed back in the 50s, but since they intersect in the middle of a wetland, it seems highly unlikely an interchange can be built now, given the regulations.

[famartin]

Admittedly I rarely go south of woodbridge, but I think the exit spacing on the turnpike is fine. The NY thruway is an example of a toll road with too few exits.

The spacing from Woodbridge north is pretty decent. It gets pretty sparse south of there. One would think that as we continue to move towards all-electronic trolling, some extra ramps could be built fairly easily, but I'm not aware of any such plans. The PA Turnpike did that in one or perhaps a few instances (I can only think of one off the top of my head), and this was long before all-electronic tolling was this close to reality.

[odditude]

That said, and as already mentioned, there has always been a strong desire for there to be an interchange with the Turnpike and NJ 42.

I think the greatest use of this besides the AC Expressway access would be for PHL and Sports Complex traffic coming from North Jersey (and from south-of-Philly to North Jersey/NYC traffic), but would be limited by the wonky access between I-76 and I-95.

If I were to add more, placing one on [...] NJ 38 would be nice.

there wasn't enough room for the I-295/NJ 38 interchange back when, and (especially with Bishop's Gate and now Topgolf built out) there's no room on the east side for a Turnpike interchange.

would've been great when I lived in that area, though!

There's also a surprising distance between 8A and 9, but not familiar with that area enough to know if one would be useful or where it could go.

eh - I get the distinct impression that 8A is most useful for all the warehouses and other shipping-related facilities in the area. heading east from there is mostly back-roading, and to the west you have US 130 or US 1 for your Turnpike access needs.

[jeffandnicole]

If I were to add more, placing one on [...] NJ 38 would be nice.

there wasn't enough room for the I-295/NJ 38 interchange back when, and (especially with Bishop's Gate and now Topgolf built out) there's no room on the east side for a Turnpike interchange.

would've been great when I lived in that area, though!

NJDOT is still pushing plans for those missing moves. Bishop Gate and Top Golf doesn't interfere. I believe there's an old house on the SW corner that will need to be taken . The biggest issue is cost. Their preliminary estimates had the 2 ramps costing over $100 million! They dropped the project from the TIP at one point but i don't believe it's a dead project yet.