New Jersey Turnpike

[jeffandnicole]

No, there would not need to be multiple decisions as you feared.
If the NJTP had it so it was 3+3 until exit then 3+3+3+3, this is how it would be:

NB from the south:
-3 lanes, then exit lanes for exit 6, then before PATP merges the NB would already be 2+2 with the the 3rd lane being added from exit 6 to each of the roadways.

Which creates the situation where NB would go from 3 lanes to 2 lanes if a roadway was closed, inducing congestion.

Or, in your preferred situation if the roadway between Interchanges 4 - 6 was widened to 4 lanes in each direction, if a roadway was closed NB traffic would be forced to go from 4 lanes to 2 lanes prior to the entry ramp from Interchange 6.

How do you figure either??????

I don't.  The Turnpike does.  The NJTA used the 8A-9 congestion often seen when only 2 lanes were open as justification to be able to maintain at least 3 lanes at all times when possible.  Their studies showed only 5 lanes per direction would be needed between Exit 6 & Exit 7A, but that would create the situations seen between 8A and 9.  So they maintained the 3-3-3-3 roadway system, and gradually added/decreased lanes south of Exit 6 to prevent a 2 lane situation.

So the reason the NJTP splits from 3-3 to 3-3-3-3 south of exit 6 is to space out the decision to be in the car or car/truck and exit 6?
I don't know, first, normally on highways, they expand or reduce the number of lanes/split coincident with a major exit, not a few miles beforehand.

This ignore that, normally on highways, there would simply be a 6-6 width, not a 3-3-3-3 width. 

The NJ Turnpike does a great job seeing what's normally done, what does and doesn't work, and optimizes what can be done.  In this case, there's a lot of swerving and congestion that occurs at a major exit with a lane reduction.

Second, exit 6 NB is not a much exit.  Very few motorists going NB take exit 6, since it only goes WB.
Exit 6 overwhelming handles incoming traffic entering the TP to go up north and exiting traffic getting off SB.
So this of all exits would seem to not need decision points being separated.

It's still a decision point.

[roadman65]

Just accept the decision that was made. NJ has their own way of doing things as the NJTA too. Not saying I disagree with them nor agree either, but we should move on from this like many of us did with I-99 and I-87 in NC.

Your point is noted.  Don't obsess over things you have no control over.  If you're upset write a letter to the chief NJTA engineer.  Not that he will change his mind and make the NJTA board invest money into doing the exchange your way, but at least you've made yourself heard by those who have control.  One user here did with a route number in NC to NCDOT. As he hated the number chosen, as you dislike the Exit 6 design.  However, he asserted himself despite the route number still the same.

[ixnay]

Just accept the decision that was made. NJ has their own way of doing things as the NJTA too. Not saying I disagree with them nor agree either, but we should move on from this like many of us did with I-99 and I-87 in NC.

Your point is noted.  Don't obsess over things you have no control over.  If you're upset write a letter to the chief NJTA engineer. Not that he will change his mind and make the NJTA board invest money into doing the exchange your way, but at least you've made yourself heard by those who have control.  One user here did with a route number in NC to NCDOT. As he hated the number chosen, as you dislike the Exit 6 design.  However, he asserted himself despite the route number still the same.

bluecountry, to the bolded, the snail mail address of the NJTA per https://www.njta.com/contact-us is

New Jersey Turnpike Authority, PO BOX 5042, Woodbridge, NJ 07095-5042.

Add Attn: Chief Engineer

EDIT:  Sorry roadman, my snail mail advice was directed to bluecountry.

[jeffandnicole]

Just accept the decision that was made. NJ has their own way of doing things as the NJTA too. Not saying I disagree with them nor agree either, but we should move on from this like many of us did with I-99 and I-87 in NC.

Your point is noted.  Don't obsess over things you have no control over.  If you're upset write a letter to the chief NJTA engineer. Not that he will change his mind and make the NJTA board invest money into doing the exchange your way, but at least you've made yourself heard by those who have control.  One user here did with a route number in NC to NCDOT. As he hated the number chosen, as you dislike the Exit 6 design.  However, he asserted himself despite the route number still the same.

Roadman, to the bolded, the snail mail address of the NJTA per https://www.njta.com/contact-us is

New Jersey Turnpike Authority, PO BOX 5042, Woodbridge, NJ 07095-5042.

Add Attn: Chief Engineer

And while I think it's good to be able to contact the engineers, I'm not sure what helpful advice that can be provided for a project that went out to bid 15 years ago and has been built for 10 years. And operates without an issue.

I have often tried posting public notice and public meeting announcements to help guide people to review the project and put their opinions in at that time, when it goes on public record, and may have an opportunity to be reviewed. If people aren't willing to put their two cents in during the formal process, their comments aren't going to be helpful 10 years after a project was completed.

[bluecountry]

No, there would not need to be multiple decisions as you feared.
If the NJTP had it so it was 3+3 until exit then 3+3+3+3, this is how it would be:

NB from the south:
-3 lanes, then exit lanes for exit 6, then before PATP merges the NB would already be 2+2 with the the 3rd lane being added from exit 6 to each of the roadways.

Which creates the situation where NB would go from 3 lanes to 2 lanes if a roadway was closed, inducing congestion.

Or, in your preferred situation if the roadway between Interchanges 4 - 6 was widened to 4 lanes in each direction, if a roadway was closed NB traffic would be forced to go from 4 lanes to 2 lanes prior to the entry ramp from Interchange 6.

How do you figure either??????

No, there would not need to be multiple decisions as you feared.
If the NJTP had it so it was 3+3 until exit then 3+3+3+3, this is how it would be:

NB from the south:
-3 lanes, then exit lanes for exit 6, then before PATP merges the NB would already be 2+2 with the the 3rd lane being added from exit 6 to each of the roadways.

Which creates the situation where NB would go from 3 lanes to 2 lanes if a roadway was closed, inducing congestion.

Or, in your preferred situation if the roadway between Interchanges 4 - 6 was widened to 4 lanes in each direction, if a roadway was closed NB traffic would be forced to go from 4 lanes to 2 lanes prior to the entry ramp from Interchange 6.

Not only does bluecountry's idea not work when full capacity is not available, as previously mentioned, multiple decision point in a short decision is a problem. All you have to do is look at all the idiot drivers who as soon as their nav device says "In one mile ...,"  they make a panic lane change. With multiple decision points in that distance, many will take the wrong one since they clearly cannot judge distance.

So the reason the NJTP splits from 3-3 to 3-3-3-3 south of exit 6 is to space out the decision to be in the car or car/truck and exit 6?
I don't know, first, normally on highways, they expand or reduce the number of lanes/split coincident with a major exit, not a few miles beforehand.
Second, exit 6 NB is not a much exit.  Very few motorists going NB take exit 6, since it only goes WB.
Exit 6 overwhelming handles incoming traffic entering the TP to go up north and exiting traffic getting off SB.
So this of all exits would seem to not need decision points being separated.

Simply have it where NB, there is exit 6 for exiting traffic (minimal use), then split into car-car/truck then incoming traffic from exit 6 would separate into car-car/truck and merge.
SB, the car-car/truck would have the exit for 6, then the car/car-truck would merge with the minimal exit 6 SB traffic coming.

You are not familiar with the operations of the NJ Turnpike Authority. We are. So instead of questioning us, acknowledge we know better than you.

Actually I know quite a lot about the NJTP, having driven it extensively throughout my life and especially the last seven years.

Just accept the decision that was made. NJ has their own way of doing things as the NJTA too. Not saying I disagree with them nor agree either, but we should move on from this like many of us did with I-99 and I-87 in NC.

Your point is noted.  Don't obsess over things you have no control over.  If you're upset write a letter to the chief NJTA engineer. Not that he will change his mind and make the NJTA board invest money into doing the exchange your way, but at least you've made yourself heard by those who have control.  One user here did with a route number in NC to NCDOT. As he hated the number chosen, as you dislike the Exit 6 design.  However, he asserted himself despite the route number still the same.

bluecountry, to the bolded, the snail mail address of the NJTA per https://www.njta.com/contact-us is

New Jersey Turnpike Authority, PO BOX 5042, Woodbridge, NJ 07095-5042.

Add Attn: Chief Engineer

EDIT:  Sorry roadman, my snail mail advice was directed to bluecountry.

I am not complaining, just wondering why pre-split the roadways going NB.

[bluecountry]

So around mile 86 there is construction which on the car/truck lanes that splits the left lane separately from the other three car/truck lanes, the left lane is basically now in the car lane, albeit barricaded, and this is both NB and SB.
What is going on?
Is this the planned car/truck to car lane new access point?

[jeffandnicole]

So around mile 86 there is construction which on the car/truck lanes that splits the left lane separately from the other three car/truck lanes, the left lane is basically now in the car lane, albeit barricaded, and this is both NB and SB.
What is going on?

Overpass/bridge deck replacement.

Is this the planned car/truck to car lane new access point?

No.

Actually I know quite a lot about the NJTP, having driven it extensively throughout my life and especially the last seven years.

Your observations over the years say otherwise.

[Rothman]

You are not familiar with the operations of the NJ Turnpike Authority. We are. So instead of questioning us, acknowledge we know better than you.

Actually I know quite a lot about the NJTP, having driven it extensively throughout my life and especially the last seven years.

This post will not age well.  Although I think the audacity of roadgeeks is actually a virtue, sometimes it really causes us to stick our feet in our mouths...

[sprjus4]

You are not familiar with the operations of the NJ Turnpike Authority. We are. So instead of questioning us, acknowledge we know better than you.

Actually I know quite a lot about the NJTP, having driven it extensively throughout my life and especially the last seven years.

"familiar with the operations of the NJ Turnpike Authority"  ≠ "know quite a lot about the NJTP"

[roadman65]

The problem is we take things way too literally and some of us here feel we have to post like we are all news reporting and it’s a basic discussion site. We do not have to be so literal, but some of us are on the spectrum which causes us to feel personal attacks that aren’t truly there.

We need to all chill and not get to into this, or that makes us no different than, let’s say, Ethanman or MMM, or even the Spelling Nazi.

Bugo also pointed out that some here are envious of those with spectrum disorders and pointed out that it’s not something any sane person would want to experience at all or wish, IMO, on your worst political enemy.

[bluecountry]

So around mile 86 there is construction which on the car/truck lanes that splits the left lane separately from the other three car/truck lanes, the left lane is basically now in the car lane, albeit barricaded, and this is both NB and SB.
What is going on?

Overpass/bridge deck replacement.

Is this the planned car/truck to car lane new access point?

No.

Actually I know quite a lot about the NJTP, having driven it extensively throughout my life and especially the last seven years.

Your observations over the years say otherwise.

Well anybody that thinks I don't know or am familiar with the NJTP has a reading comprehension problem.
I have driven this road every month for the last several years from start to finish.

[Rothman]

So around mile 86 there is construction which on the car/truck lanes that splits the left lane separately from the other three car/truck lanes, the left lane is basically now in the car lane, albeit barricaded, and this is both NB and SB.
What is going on?

Overpass/bridge deck replacement.

Is this the planned car/truck to car lane new access point?

No.

Actually I know quite a lot about the NJTP, having driven it extensively throughout my life and especially the last seven years.

Your observations over the years say otherwise.

Well anybody that thinks I don't know or am familiar with the NJTP has a reading comprehension problem.
I have driven this road every month for the last several years from start to finish.

You need to go back and read the thread again, since you're doubling down on a position under which there is nothing but open air.  Your critics are not the ones with the reading comprehension problem.

To be fair, this has happened to the best of us.  Best to just re-read, admit one's mistake and move on.

[lstone19]

Well anybody that thinks I don't know or am familiar with the NJTP has a reading comprehension problem.
I have driven this road every month for the last several years from start to finish.

That you are a regular customer of the Turnpike does not make you an expert on how it operates and in particular why some things are done the way they are done. I know in my former job, we learned what worked and what didn't and things that didn't work weren't repeated. No doubt others then wondered why we didn't do things that other that way that we had determined didn't work (it must have seemed like it should work or we wouldn't have tried it in the first place). But as is said in a famous quote from Goege Santayana, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." I have no idea how old you are but those of us who have been around for a long time (the first time I rode as a passenger in my parent's car on the Turnpike, it was not dual-dual and there were no E exits as there was no western spur yet) know that many things you think the Turnpike should be doing has been done in the past but is no longer they way they do things. I start with the assumption that there are competent people working there and if they no longer do things as in the past, they must have a good reason for doing things differently now.

[J N Winkler]

Folks, I am locking this thread for a 48-hour cooling period.

[bluecountry]

Well anybody that thinks I don't know or am familiar with the NJTP has a reading comprehension problem.
I have driven this road every month for the last several years from start to finish.

That you are a regular customer of the Turnpike does not make you an expert on how it operates and in particular why some things are done the way they are done. I know in my former job, we learned what worked and what didn't and things that didn't work weren't repeated. No doubt others then wondered why we didn't do things that other that way that we had determined didn't work (it must have seemed like it should work or we wouldn't have tried it in the first place). But as is said in a famous quote from Goege Santayana, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." I have no idea how old you are but those of us who have been around for a long time (the first time I rode as a passenger in my parent's car on the Turnpike, it was not dual-dual and there were no E exits as there was no western spur yet) know that many things you think the Turnpike should be doing has been done in the past but is no longer they way they do things. I start with the assumption that there are competent people working there and if they no longer do things as in the past, they must have a good reason for doing things differently now.

What's all the controversy about, I just wondered why the NJTP is the only road I know of that expands its lane capacity miles before an exit.
I definitely agree that having a 3+2 split would not work as the 3 section gets shut down making the 2 section congested.

[vdeane]

Well anybody that thinks I don't know or am familiar with the NJTP has a reading comprehension problem.
I have driven this road every month for the last several years from start to finish.

That you are a regular customer of the Turnpike does not make you an expert on how it operates and in particular why some things are done the way they are done. I know in my former job, we learned what worked and what didn't and things that didn't work weren't repeated. No doubt others then wondered why we didn't do things that other that way that we had determined didn't work (it must have seemed like it should work or we wouldn't have tried it in the first place). But as is said in a famous quote from Goege Santayana, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." I have no idea how old you are but those of us who have been around for a long time (the first time I rode as a passenger in my parent's car on the Turnpike, it was not dual-dual and there were no E exits as there was no western spur yet) know that many things you think the Turnpike should be doing has been done in the past but is no longer they way they do things. I start with the assumption that there are competent people working there and if they no longer do things as in the past, they must have a good reason for doing things differently now.

What's all the controversy about, I just wondered why the NJTP is the only road I know of that expands its lane capacity miles before an exit.
I definitely agree that having a 3+2 split would not work as the 3 section gets shut down making the 2 section congested.

People told you.  You then proceeded to keep arguing that your way was better.

[lstone19]

What's all the controversy about, I just wondered why the NJTP is the only road I know of that expands its lane capacity miles before an exit.
I definitely agree that having a 3+2 split would not work as the 3 section gets shut down making the 2 section congested.

As I said in the other thread (New England Thruway) where you are making similar complaints, you need to state why you think the current design is bad and what problems it causes. It is not enough to say you think it's wrong without support for that position.

Also, you do not enhance your positions by exaggerating. The northbound split before Exit 6 that bothers you so much is not "miles before an exit." It is almost exactly one mile which is not, by most people's definition, "miles." By exaggerating, you are actually weakening your position.

[roadman65]

Do we ant another 48 hours again?

My request is lay it to rest. We all know Blue Country's opinion and he ain't going to change his. So don't provoke him again.

[Tonytone]

Are we seriously going back and forth about one of the best Ran Turnpikes in the country?

[The Ghostbuster]

Apparently, we are. Personally, I could care less about it, given I come from a toll-less state. Let's change the subject before the moderator locks the thread again, and this time for good.

[Rothman]

Apparently, we are. Personally, I could care less about it, given I come from a toll-less state. Let's change the subject before the moderator locks the thread again, and this time for good.

Who's "we"?  You haven't posted in this thread for weeks, if not months.

[jeffandnicole]

Yes, let's talk about...

The NJ Turnpike's Surplus Vehicle and Equipment Auction.

The NJTA hosts this event once or twice a year, in which they sell off vehicles and equipment that are no longer needed.  Some of it is operable; some is not.  Some have minimum bid requirements.  Unfortunately, for what many in this group would be interested in, no signs or other 'collectable' stuff are part of the auction, however, they do have a number of arrow boards available to flash and annoy your neighbors with!

The general guidelines are shown here: https://www.njta.com/newsroom/turnpike-authority-to-offer-surplus-vehicles-equipment-parts-for-sale-by-sealed-bid . Within the press release is a link to see what is actually being offered.  Nicely, the auctions are now conducted via WebEx, so everyone can watch the action and see the bids that are submitted.

[NJRoadfan]

Depends on what you call collectable. Looking at the list, doesn't look like all those imported Holdens held up very well. Someone who loves RWD V8 sedans will buy them anyway!

[Roadwarriors79]

Not that I'm complaining, but when did the Turnpike Authority decide to start using "Philadelphia" as a SB control city on some of the mainline signs? And how much of the SB control city signage will change in the next couple of years?

[Ted$8roadFan]

Not that I'm complaining, but when did the Turnpike Authority decide to start using "Philadelphia" as a SB control city on some of the mainline signs? And how much of the SB control city signage will change in the next couple of years?

I'm guessing it was around the time that the missing link between the Turnpikes and I-95 in Bucks County, PA was completed in 2018.