New Jersey Turnpike

[Steve D]

Regarding the new hybrid signs on the ramps, my understanding is that because the dual-dual section will extend from 6 to 14 when all is said and done, it may not be practical to close an entire barrel (55 miles or so) in the case of work or emergency.  One sign would say All Exits, as it is likely that one of the two roadways would be open all the way through, while the other would indicate in the VMS portion what exit the other roadway closes.  I am not up on all the specifics, but there are a number of different conditions that can be covered by the new panels.

This is exactly what the reasoning has to be.  It also takes the NJSP more than an hour to physically run (back and forth) the length of a barrel closing say in planned construction to give the "all clear" so that workers can proliferate the roadway.  For a 6 to 14 barrel, this could take upwards of 3 hours essentially ruining the purpose of an 8 hour construction window.  So the Turnpike must be ready to do partial closings up to EXIT X on the opposite VMS and then the confimatory message for positive guidance on the sign shown is ALL EXITS.

Very interesting.  This is a significant change in operations that may be confusing when in place.  Will the old signs between exit 8A and 14 need to be replaced to accomodate?

[jeffandnicole]

Although the run that far would only be necessary if the reason for the closure was at the far end of the roadway's closure.  If the issue for the closure was on the inner drive in the vincinity of Exit 7 Northbound, only the diverage point apporaching Int. 6, Int 6 itself and Int. 7 would need to divert traffic to the outer roadway.  From 7A North, motorists could enter either roadway.

In the event a roadway was closed both North & South, I would hope they wouldn't have one officer running the whole length both ways.  One could start at the south end, and one would start at the north end.  And 55 miles for a cop on a closed roadway could be driven completely in a little more than a half hour! (Hell...as fast as they move on that road, they could drive 55 miles in just over 30 minutes on an open roadway...and that's only slightly exaggerating!!!!)

[Don'tKnowYet]

In the event a roadway was closed both North & South, I would hope they wouldn't have one officer running the whole length both ways.  One could start at the south end, and one would start at the north end.  And 55 miles for a cop on a closed roadway could be driven completely in a little more than a half hour! (Hell...as fast as they move on that road, they could drive 55 miles in just over 30 minutes on an open roadway...and that's only slightly exaggerating!!!!)

I would think the operation needs to include the ramp terminals and the confirmation that the ramp gate arm went down.  If a truck is illegally parked on a ramp to snooze and then wakes, the truck driver has no way of knowing that proceeding ahead would be a bad idea.  All these "illegals" have to be chased.  That is why i thoguht it would take 3 hours +/-.

[Steve D]

Although the run that far would only be necessary if the reason for the closure was at the far end of the roadway's closure.  If the issue for the closure was on the inner drive in the vincinity of Exit 7 Northbound, only the diverage point apporaching Int. 6, Int 6 itself and Int. 7 would need to divert traffic to the outer roadway.  From 7A North, motorists could enter either roadway.

This scenario is not different than what happens today north of the diverge near exit 8A - the traffic entering at exit 6 and 7 will only enter one roadway (for all exits) and from 7A north can enter both as usual - hence no need for the new VMS signs if the scenario below would not happen.

The new scenario is when traffic can enter both roadways from the mainline diverge at exit 6, but only one of the roads is fully open all the way north (the cars only, for example, says "EXITS 6 to 8 ONLY" if the work is just past exit 8, the cars/trucks/buses says "ALL EXITS"). I think many people will still take the cars only lanes and be surprised they have to exit at exit 8.  This is certainly a departure from what happens today, although when the eastern/western spurs close they do sometimes allow traffic only for certain exits, such as "EXIT 15E ONLY", "EXIT 15W ONLY", "SPORTS COMPLEX ONLY".

[DrSmith]

Without knowing the details but driving it, I have wondered if there are plans to keep the current merge/split at 8A as a means to close only a portion of the highway. That way one roadway could be closed say northbound from 8A-14, but still have both roadways from 6-8A northbound. Anyone have any idea?

[jeffandnicole]

No.  In fact, the merge/diverge area is already gone. They moved it temporarily about 2 miles north to reconstruct the former split.

[storm2k]

Did they change these signs from last year? I haven't had to go that way in a very long time since the office my company had in Hamilton closed, but the last time I was going onto the NJTP from 7A, they had a different sign gantry that I thought was going to be the split between the car and truck lanes. This looks more like their new design for the LED VMS's and the new MUTCD signage (similar at least). I would imagine that the VMS parts here make it easier to offer detour directions if one roadway is closed. I should also point out that NJTPA erected signs similar to this at the local/express split of 95 going into the GWB. Top half is a regular BGS and the bottom half is a LED VMS that lists travel times to the upper and lower levels of the bridge. Nicer looking than the signs they put up in 2000 and hopefully the VMS's last better than the older orange LCD ones did.

Regarding the new hybrid signs on the ramps, my understanding is that because the dual-dual section will extend from 6 to 14 when all is said and done, it may not be practical to close an entire barrel (55 miles or so) in the case of work or emergency.  One sign would say All Exits, as it is likely that one of the two roadways would be open all the way through, while the other would indicate in the VMS portion what exit the other roadway closes.  I am not up on all the specifics, but there are a number of different conditions that can be covered by the new panels.

In all honesty, I don't think they necessarily close or barrel off one of the entire roadways as it stands these days. I think they'll do it north or south of where they're doing work (say on a bridge or overpass) but beyond where the work is done, they will actually allow traffic onto the either roadway at all interchange entrances. I think it depends on the work they're doing obviously, as there are some projects where it makes more sense to have the entire roadway closed from one end of the dual-dual to the other.

[Alps]

Without knowing the details but driving it, I have wondered if there are plans to keep the current merge/split at 8A as a means to close only a portion of the highway. That way one roadway could be closed say northbound from 8A-14, but still have both roadways from 6-8A northbound. Anyone have any idea?

They may put in slip ramps halfway through the dualized section.

[jeffandnicole]

Did they change these signs from last year? I haven't had to go that way in a very long time since the office my company had in Hamilton closed, but the last time I was going onto the NJTP from 7A, they had a different sign gantry that I thought was going to be the split between the car and truck lanes. This looks more like their new design for the LED VMS's and the new MUTCD signage (similar at least). I would imagine that the VMS parts here make it easier to offer detour directions if one roadway is closed. I should also point out that NJTPA erected signs similar to this at the local/express split of 95 going into the GWB. Top half is a regular BGS and the bottom half is a LED VMS that lists travel times to the upper and lower levels of the bridge. Nicer looking than the signs they put up in 2000 and hopefully the VMS's last better than the older orange LCD ones did.

Going south, these ramps were still under construction last year.  This panel is very new - within the past week or 2. 

You may have been thinking of the panels going North, which right now I can't exactly recall what I've seen lately.  The ramp though has a nice little roller coaster feel to it!

[jeffandnicole]

The NJ Turnpike 511 alerts now reference the inner (and outer) roadways down to Interchange 6:

"As of 5:10pm, there's Roadwork on the New Jersey Turnpike inner roadway southbound exiting at Interchange 6 - Pennsylvania Turnpike in Mansfield Twp. Left lane closed until 8:00 A.M."

[Alps]

The NJ Turnpike 511 alerts now reference the inner (and outer) roadways down to Interchange 6:

"As of 5:10pm, there's Roadwork on the New Jersey Turnpike inner roadway southbound exiting at Interchange 6 - Pennsylvania Turnpike in Mansfield Twp. Left lane closed until 8:00 A.M."

NJ 511 gets its alerts from the NJ Turnpike Authority, so it's up to the NJTA what roadways get mentioned.

[roadman65]

As far as one roadway being closed and what happens after the point of nature of the close, I once saw the Car Lanes (Inner roadway) closed north of the former split in East Brunswick where work was done between Exits 9 and 11, but north of Exit 11 the ramp split going north had all traffic diverted to the Cars Only lanes and closed the ramp to the outer Truck- Bus lanes.

I do not know what Exits 12 to 13A did at the time, but it makes sense, to fill both roadways with as much traffic as they can.  This was a sound idea.  Exit 11 sees a lot of traffic entering the Turnpike, and to add more to the truck lanes already over crowded with through traffic would really create a bottleneck north of there, so having the unused road is a very logical solution.

BTW, Exit 11 has the largest toll plaza on the system with more lanes than its mainline plazas, so I am assuming that it has the most volume out of all the interchanges on the system.

[jeffandnicole]

As far as one roadway being closed and what happens after the point of nature of the close, I once saw the Car Lanes (Inner roadway) closed north of the former split in East Brunswick where work was done between Exits 9 and 11, but north of Exit 11 the ramp split going north had all traffic diverted to the Cars Only lanes and closed the ramp to the outer Truck- Bus lanes.

I do not know what Exits 12 to 13A did at the time, but it makes sense, to fill both roadways with as much traffic as they can.  This was a sound idea.  Exit 11 sees a lot of traffic entering the Turnpike, and to add more to the truck lanes already over crowded with through traffic would really create a bottleneck north of there, so having the unused road is a very logical solution.

While such a system may bring a lot of head scratching to motorists as they wonder "why is there so much traffic on that road when the sign said it was closed", the Turnpike does tend to do a good job of managing traffic.  The only ones that probably really disapprove are those that really, really want to use the car only lanes to keep away from the trucks.  In your example above, both roadways would have cars and trucks, so they wouldn't be able to avoid the trucks anyway.

[roadman65]

Yeah that does create a scenario for some, but we are all adults we will get by having to share a road with trucks.

What you said is true either way, you could not avoid the trucks with whatever project was taking place that particular day, so to fill another roadway up is not an issue. 

[1995hoo]

While such a system may bring a lot of head scratching to motorists as they wonder "why is there so much traffic on that road when the sign said it was closed", the Turnpike does tend to do a good job of managing traffic.  The only ones that probably really disapprove are those that really, really want to use the car only lanes to keep away from the trucks.  In your example above, both roadways would have cars and trucks, so they wouldn't be able to avoid the trucks anyway.

I know there are people who do that and I've always found it a little amusing because I tend to opt for the outer carriageway to avoid the cars. Over the years I've found that it seems (I emphasize "seems"–this is based solely on my own observation) that the more serious accidents that snarl traffic seem to occur more often on the inner carriageways, perhaps because the most aggressive of the car drivers feel freed-up by the lack of trucks. For the most part, I think truck drivers tend to be better drivers than the average car driver as well. Of course, the flip side of all this is that for the past two decades, for someone coming up from (or going home to) Virginia, using the outer carriageway meant dealing with the narrower segment between Exits 8A and 9, so that was always a potential negative that would cause me to use the inner lanes if truck traffic were especially heavy on a given day (let's face it–even if they're better drivers, the trucks can still be a nuisance due to simple physics). I guess that will no longer be an issue when the widening is done.

I'm curious what other folks prefer as to which lanes to use in that situation. Back in the days of paying cash at toll plazas I always opted to go to the far right with the trucks as well because their lines were shorter (you might have three or four trucks in the amount of space it takes to fit ten cars) and the truck drivers usually knew what their toll would be due to repeated travel, whereas it wasn't unusual to get a car driver who had no clue and would seemingly wait to dig for cash until pulling up to pay (much like old ladies who use a check at the grocery store but don't get out the checkbook until the cashier announces the total.....)

[jeffandnicole]

...I'm curious what other folks prefer as to which lanes to use in that situation...

Like you, I have jumped in the truck lanes to avoid the car traffic.  8A to 9 (Northbound) is better now as it's 3 lanes wide, although you get the occasional truck that doesn't get it for a little bit that the left lane is still off limits to traffic.

[PHLBOS]

...I'm curious what other folks prefer as to which lanes to use in that situation...

Like you, I have jumped in the truck lanes to avoid the car traffic.  8A to 9 (Northbound) is better now as it's 3 lanes wide, although you get the occasional truck that doesn't get it for a little bit that the left lane is still off limits to traffic.

^^This.  I've been doing such for decades.  I believe I can count the number of times I've used the separate car lanes (when the truck lanes are open to traffic) on one hand.  And, no, I wasn't driving a truck either.

[roadman65]

As far as truckers knowing the toll rates when they travel, I did run into (or behind one) on the PA Turnpike NE Extension at the Wyoming Valley Mainline (Ticket terminus) where I was waiting behind an 18 wheeler for more than five minuets because the driver had no money to pay the toll.  The collector never ran into this one before and told us all about it after we waited that long period.

There is always a first time for everything including cab drivers out there who will ask directions to a major hotel.  Then you have the truck drivers on I-287 in NJ who are totally unaware of the lane drop at NJ 27 in Edison and many move over making that typical last minuet lane change as they should know the traffic patterns before anyone.  Plus that large overhead sign that reads EXIT ONLY should be obvious.

[jeffandnicole]

Yeah, one would think truckers are smart when it comes to roads.  And many if not most of them are.  But the dumb ones are the ones that lead to come great stories.

I had one in my days of working NJ Turnpike's Interchange 1 that was complaining about the tolls (not terribly unusual).  I freely suggest to those people that 295 is right next door.  This trucker shouted back that 295 is tolled too.  Then it becomes a whole "No it's Not", "Yes it Is" ordeal...with the people stuck behind the trucker getting impatient as well wondering what's taking so long.

In those cases...it's easier to say "whatever dude".  Pay your toll and move along.

[Steve D]

FYI, the newest version of Google Maps (available from newer versions of browsers) now has recent satellite pictures of the exit 6-9 widening area.

[1995hoo]

Yeah, I wasn't saying ALL truckers are necessarily more aware of the toll rates or the like than all car drivers are, just that in general I'd expect the average truck driver to be more aware and savvier.

[Mr. Matté]

Going southbound, when you were in the truck lanes approaching the former merge, you have the availability of staying in the right lane through the merge and not have to merge with anyone. That was my reasoning for generally always using the truck lanes especially since whenever I was driving alone on the Turnpike, I was getting on at 9 anyway.

[vdeane]

I once nearly got run over by a truck on the Thruway that wanted to move over to micropass another truck while I was still passing him.  Had to lay on the horn for 5-10 seconds and swerve into the left shoulder.

FYI, the newest version of Google Maps (available from newer versions of browsers) now has recent satellite pictures of the exit 6-9 widening area.

Why would they only put the imagery in the new Google Maps but not the old one?  And this isn't the first time they've withheld recent satellite imagery on Maps either (and they always do it on areas that have changed a lot since the imagery was refreshed, too; they'll update an area where the imagery is identical, but not ones where it shows decade-old road configurations).

[cpzilliacus]

I'm curious what other folks prefer as to which lanes to use in that situation.

I generally drive in the "truck" lanes, because traffic seems to be lighter there, and the nutcase-type drivers are usually in the cars-only lanes.

[SignBridge]

I'm surprised that so many here prefer the truck lanes. I'll always take the car lanes so as not to have to play tag with the 18-wheelers. The truckers may be more skillful drivers, but I'd rather play with others my own size.