Conversations with non-roadgeeks

[jp the roadgeek]

I can also tell someone from western NY.  They refer to highways as "The I-xx".  The term "highway" also can have a different meaning regionally.  In the northeast, a highway usually refers to a limited access facility, unless it's the actual name of the roadway (such as Key Highway in Baltimore City).  In the south and Midwest, highway is used as a synonym for what northeasterners would call a "route" for a US or state route.  "The xxx" is more of a California and Ontario thing. 

[US 89]

No one ever uses "the 15"  here, and if you do you will stand out. One of our local tv stations had a new traffic reporter, who kept saying "the 215"  and "the Bangerter" . Within a week she stopped doing that, although every once in a while she'll refer to "the 201" .

Here, our freeways don't really have names, but the ones that do are referred to by those names. I-15 and 80 are just the number, I-215 can be either the number, or "east belt" , "south belt"  or "west belt"  depending on which part. Legacy Parkway is always the name, never SR-67.

The word here for a controlled access highway is freeway. Expressways are limited access roads like Bangerter Highway or the Mountain View Corridor. It seems that we follow the south and Midwest usage for "highway"  and we don't really use the word "route" .

[1995hoo]

We don't normally say "freeway" here unless it's part of the name of a particular road (e.g., the Whitehurst Freeway); if the word is used by itself here in the DC area, it invariably refers to the Southwest—Southeast Freeway in DC (I-395/I-695), which the traffic reporters all refer to as "the Freeway," presumably to save time over using its longer name (whereas they will often omit "Freeway" when referring to "the Whitehurst").

People here don't normally say "expressway" either. The generic term for the kinds of roads being discussed here is "highway." Example: "The highway [here meaning US-50/secret I-595] is backed up heading to Annapolis, so take Central Avenue instead." Or "There was a bad accident blocking Rockville Pike, so I had to take the highway." In my observation, this sort of use of "highway" to refer to a specific road has become less common in recent years–people seem more likely to use a route number (I-270 or just 270, but NEVER preceded with "the") or name (the Beltway) unless they're referring to a class of road generally (e.g., "It'll take about an hour to get to Baltimore on the highway and it might take an extra half an hour to get through all the traffic lights if you go a different way.").

"Highway" is NEVER used here as a substitute for "Route" or "I-" or whatever. If you say, "Take Highway 29 south to Charlottesville," you've immediately marked yourself as an outsider. Most people would say either "Route" or just plain "29." Usually if I hear "US" mentioned, it's because someone is giving very specific directions. I don't think it marks you as a roadgeek to say "US," but if you were to distinguish between a Virginia primary route and a secondary route, THAT would mark you as a roadgeek. The secondary route numbers are very rarely used anyway with only a handful of exceptions (the main one being near where I live, Route 644, and that's because it changes names when it crosses I-95 and both parts are fairly important).

(I suppose there could be another thread on the pronunciation of "Route.")

[Jmiles32]

"Highway" is NEVER used here as a substitute for "Route" or "I-" or whatever. If you say, "Take Highway 29 south to Charlottesville," you've immediately marked yourself as an outsider. Most people would say either "Route" or just plain "29." Usually if I hear "US" mentioned, it's because someone is giving very specific directions. I don't think it marks you as a roadgeek to say "US," but if you were to distinguish between a Virginia primary route and a secondary route, THAT would mark you as a roadgeek. The secondary route numbers are very rarely used anyway with only a handful of exceptions (the main one being near where I live, Route 644, and that's because it changes names when it crosses I-95 and both parts are fairly important).

Definitely here people not only around my neck of the woods, but also in my own age group, frequently refer to major roads as just plain 66,29,15,55, and 28. However, the few individuals that do use the "US" before a route number will often times overuse it. I've heard multiple US-55s, US-28s, and even a couple US-66s. IMO a big thing that separates roadgeeks and non-roadgeeks is being able to recognize the difference between a US-highway and a State Highway.

[1995hoo]

My wife once asked me why, when I type directions, I specify "US"  or "VA"  or whatever. I told her I assume you recognize the US Highway shield (she acknowledged she does) and I figure saying "US"  is just one more visual cue for you if I send directions. But I never rely solely on the route numbers when giving directions, either.

[jp the roadgeek]

There is a thread going for this whole route vs. highway discussion:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11466.0

As a side note, I saw Google Maps refer to CT 31 as CT HWY 31, and it is causing an error labeling the state route as a county route which Google has yet to fix.  Also, the Doppler weather radar in street view mode on a local TV station refers to numbered routes as HWY "xxx", and to actually hear the meteorologist read it as such sounds strange, akin to calling soda "pop" in the northeast.

[GaryV]

There is a thread going for this whole route vs. highway discussion:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11466.0

From almost 4 years ago.

[Bruce]

Using "the XX" is heresy. The only exception being a bridge (e.g. "the 520 bridge" is fine, "the 520" is not) or other structure.

[sparker]

Bringing this thread back from the grave...

Had a conversation with a co-worker from Pennsylvania, near Philly: She doesn't understand all the '76' routes...making 276, 476, 76, etc.  It's too confusing to her.  She asked to confirm that 276 was the PA Turnpike...which I said it was till King of Prussia, then it's 76.  She asked if the Northeast Extention was 476...which it is.  Then she asked about the Blue Route...which I said was 476 as well.

Her comment, in regards to all the 76's: "Only in Pennsylvania".  I told her not even close...all states have various extensions off their highways, like 295 and 495 off 95 in Delaware, or 195, 495 & 695 in Maryland. 

Simply no clue...

My dad still believes that freeway is only a California term.

Expressway seems to be the generic term for limited access highways used in states that had toll facilities, like the Northeast, Chicago area and Florida.

I made this connection when I was a kid. In GA and NC the term is freeway. FL it's expressway.. most major cities in FL( Jacksonville, Orlando and Miami) all had toll roads. Florida natives speak the same Southern dialect as GA and NC. So it's not a dialect difference.  (Florida, especially North and Central Florida were very Deep South 60-70 years ago for those who say FL is not the South)

Freeway is much more commonly used now, thanks to the influence of California on TV. I would not be surprised to soon hear "the 95" in common usage from Maine to Miami.

"Freeway" is the technical term, and was used for a long time by other DOTs (and their predecessors) as well.  As long as I can remember, MDOT (Michigan) has always signed them as "freeways".  Even most of the names in Metro Detroit reflect this: Jeffries Freeway, Ford Freeway, Chrysler Freeway, Lodge Freeway, etc.  Only the Detroit-Toledo Expressway and Detroit Industrial Expressway buck the trend.

IDOT on the other hand usually uses "expressway" around Metro Chicago.  Only the Bishop Ford Freeway bucks that trend.

However, I sincerely doubt you'll hear "the 94" anytime soon.  Chicagoans use the name (to the exclusion of the number), and Michiganders tend to use the number (i.e. "94") or with "I" in front (i.e. "I-94").  Don't doubt the anti-California trends in most of the rest of the country.

Believe me I cringe whenever I hear "the 95" or " the 10" from my nephew... He went to high school in San Diego... I hope that usage does not spread but it seems to be...

Where I live near Orlando the toll roads are called " the 408" and "the 417" by traffic reporters... PLEASE STOP!!!

Z981

This'll certainly date me, but I remember when L.A.-area radio traffic reports still referred to specific freeways by their names rather than their numbers (The Hollywood, Harbor, Golden State, Ventura........ad nauseum).  This practice seemed to fade away when certain freeways' (I'm talking about you, I-605!) numbers began being used because (a) the freeway name ("San Gabriel River Freeway") was a bit unwieldly for radio babble -- and besides, the name wasn't widely posted except at the freeway's termini, or (b) the number segued from named freeway to named freeway (US 101, CA 91) and it was easier to delineate certain sections by their numbers (the 101 section of the Hollywood vs. the 170 section).  The term "the" as a prefix for the number was simply a transfer of terms from the previous use of freeway names; i.e., "The 405" replaced "The San Diego Freeway" circa early '70's.  Just an artifact of SoCal lore!

[GaryV]

The term "the" as a prefix for the number was simply a transfer of terms from the previous use of freeway names; i.e., "The 405" replaced "The San Diego Freeway" circa early '70's.  Just an artifact of SoCal lore!

But that didn't happen in Detroit.

When I first moved here, traffic reports were "The Chrysler"/"The Fisher", "The Davison" (which didn't have a number at that time), "The Reuther", "The Lodge" (which had a number, but no one knew what it was since it originally didn't have a number).  The traffic reporters changed to I-75, M-8, I-696, M-10 over the past 10 years or so.  No "the" with a number.

Perhaps I-275 led the way, because it never had a name that was in widespread use.  (I'm sure it has some memorial name.)  And I think it's better to use the numbers rather than names, because the non-locals don't know the names.

[Roadgeekteen]

The term "the" as a prefix for the number was simply a transfer of terms from the previous use of freeway names; i.e., "The 405" replaced "The San Diego Freeway" circa early '70's.  Just an artifact of SoCal lore!

But that didn't happen in Detroit.

When I first moved here, traffic reports were "The Chrysler"/"The Fisher", "The Davison" (which didn't have a number at that time), "The Reuther", "The Lodge" (which had a number, but no one knew what it was since it originally didn't have a number).  The traffic reporters changed to I-75, M-8, I-696, M-10 over the past 10 years or so.  No "the" with a number.

Perhaps I-275 led the way, because it never had a name that was in widespread use.  (I'm sure it has some memorial name.)  And I think it's better to use the numbers rather than names, because the non-locals don't know the names.

I have never heard "the" before a highway number.

[sparker]

The term "the" as a prefix for the number was simply a transfer of terms from the previous use of freeway names; i.e., "The 405" replaced "The San Diego Freeway" circa early '70's.  Just an artifact of SoCal lore!

But that didn't happen in Detroit.

When I first moved here, traffic reports were "The Chrysler"/"The Fisher", "The Davison" (which didn't have a number at that time), "The Reuther", "The Lodge" (which had a number, but no one knew what it was since it originally didn't have a number).  The traffic reporters changed to I-75, M-8, I-696, M-10 over the past 10 years or so.  No "the" with a number.

Perhaps I-275 led the way, because it never had a name that was in widespread use.  (I'm sure it has some memorial name.)  And I think it's better to use the numbers rather than names, because the non-locals don't know the names.

I have never heard "the" before a highway number.

Just take a trip out to anywhere in CA south of SLO (that's San Luis Obispo to the outside world), tune in to your nearest CBS AM station, and listen to the traffic reports.  You'll hear that particular reference repeatedly at least every half-hour (every 10 minutes at peak times).  Occasionally it'll bleed through to the Bay Area and other NorCal points, but the most prevalent use centers, of course, around L.A. metro. 

[jwolfer]

Bringing this thread back from the grave...

Had a conversation with a co-worker from Pennsylvania, near Philly: She doesn't understand all the '76' routes...making 276, 476, 76, etc.  It's too confusing to her.  She asked to confirm that 276 was the PA Turnpike...which I said it was till King of Prussia, then it's 76.  She asked if the Northeast Extention was 476...which it is.  Then she asked about the Blue Route...which I said was 476 as well.

Her comment, in regards to all the 76's: "Only in Pennsylvania".  I told her not even close...all states have various extensions off their highways, like 295 and 495 off 95 in Delaware, or 195, 495 & 695 in Maryland. 

Simply no clue...

My dad still believes that freeway is only a California term.

Expressway seems to be the generic term for limited access highways used in states that had toll facilities, like the Northeast, Chicago area and Florida.

I made this connection when I was a kid. In GA and NC the term is freeway. FL it's expressway.. most major cities in FL( Jacksonville, Orlando and Miami) all had toll roads. Florida natives speak the same Southern dialect as GA and NC. So it's not a dialect difference.  (Florida, especially North and Central Florida were very Deep South 60-70 years ago for those who say FL is not the South)

Freeway is much more commonly used now, thanks to the influence of California on TV. I would not be surprised to soon hear "the 95" in common usage from Maine to Miami.

"Freeway" is the technical term, and was used for a long time by other DOTs (and their predecessors) as well.  As long as I can remember, MDOT (Michigan) has always signed them as "freeways".  Even most of the names in Metro Detroit reflect this: Jeffries Freeway, Ford Freeway, Chrysler Freeway, Lodge Freeway, etc.  Only the Detroit-Toledo Expressway and Detroit Industrial Expressway buck the trend.

IDOT on the other hand usually uses "expressway" around Metro Chicago.  Only the Bishop Ford Freeway bucks that trend.

However, I sincerely doubt you'll hear "the 94" anytime soon.  Chicagoans use the name (to the exclusion of the number), and Michiganders tend to use the number (i.e. "94") or with "I" in front (i.e. "I-94").  Don't doubt the anti-California trends in most of the rest of the country.

Believe me I cringe whenever I hear "the 95" or " the 10" from my nephew... He went to high school in San Diego... I hope that usage does not spread but it seems to be...

Where I live near Orlando the toll roads are called " the 408" and "the 417" by traffic reporters... PLEASE STOP!!!

Z981

This'll certainly date me, but I remember when L.A.-area radio traffic reports still referred to specific freeways by their names rather than their numbers (The Hollywood, Harbor, Golden State, Ventura........ad nauseum).  This practice seemed to fade away when certain freeways' (I'm talking about you, I-605!) numbers began being used because (a) the freeway name ("San Gabriel River Freeway") was a bit unwieldly for radio babble -- and besides, the name wasn't widely posted except at the freeway's termini, or (b) the number segued from named freeway to named freeway (US 101, CA 91) and it was easier to delineate certain sections by their numbers (the 101 section of the Hollywood vs. the 170 section).  The term "the" as a prefix for the number was simply a transfer of terms from the previous use of freeway names; i.e., "The 405" replaced "The San Diego Freeway" circa early '70's.  Just an artifact of SoCal lore!

I think the Orlando toll roads being called "The 408" etc has a similar etymology.  They used to be called by names exclusively " The East-west" "the Beeline" the Greeneway". Then they decided to go by Secret SR number..  then it transitioned to "the 408 East-West Expressway" got shortened to "the 408"

Z981

[kphoger]

I have never heard "the" before a highway number.

Now that you know about it, you can be sure you'll hear it every so often.  I generally notice it on TV shows and movies.  It stands out when the show takes place somewhere in the Midwest, but they throw in something like "the 70 out of Saint Louis."  Well, you can bet both the writer and editor were from California!

[jwolfer]

I have never heard "the" before a highway number.

Now that you know about it, you can be sure you'll hear it every so often.  I generally notice it on TV shows and movies.  It stands out when the show takes place somewhere in the Midwest, but they throw in something like "the 70 out of Saint Louis."  Well, you can bet both the writer and editor were from California!

I have noticed that before on TV shows..

If you want to see "the xx" spoofed.. look up "The Calfornians" skit from SNL

Z981

[Beltway]

Definitely here people not only around my neck of the woods, but also in my own age group, frequently refer to major roads as just plain 66,29,15,55, and 28. However, the few individuals that do use the "US" before a route number will often times overuse it. I've heard multiple US-55s, US-28s, and even a couple US-66s. IMO a big thing that separates roadgeeks and non-roadgeeks is being able to recognize the difference between a US-highway and a State Highway.

The mark of an experienced traveler in the D.C. area is knowing both the route number and the name a road.  That definitely helps in some cases, such as knowing which part of VA-236 someone is referring to as there are several different names along the route.

[bing101]

The term "the" as a prefix for the number was simply a transfer of terms from the previous use of freeway names; i.e., "The 405" replaced "The San Diego Freeway" circa early '70's.  Just an artifact of SoCal lore!

But that didn't happen in Detroit.

When I first moved here, traffic reports were "The Chrysler"/"The Fisher", "The Davison" (which didn't have a number at that time), "The Reuther", "The Lodge" (which had a number, but no one knew what it was since it originally didn't have a number).  The traffic reporters changed to I-75, M-8, I-696, M-10 over the past 10 years or so.  No "the" with a number.

Perhaps I-275 led the way, because it never had a name that was in widespread use.  (I'm sure it has some memorial name.)  And I think it's better to use the numbers rather than names, because the non-locals don't know the names.

I have never heard "the" before a highway number.

Just take a trip out to anywhere in CA south of SLO (that's San Luis Obispo to the outside world), tune in to your nearest CBS AM station, and listen to the traffic reports.  You'll hear that particular reference repeatedly at least every half-hour (every 10 minutes at peak times).  Occasionally it'll bleed through to the Bay Area and other NorCal points, but the most prevalent use centers, of course, around L.A. metro.

In the Bay Area I noticed that newer residents say "on 101", "on 880" and that's in the past decade. But if you are an older resident of the San Francisco Area you would say "on highway 880", "on highway 280" to mean freeways. Interchanges they say split like (Highway 101 @ Highway 80 split) to refer to James Lick interchange.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c1H6FFaSx3M

[jp the roadgeek]

Just had to have another conversation in a FB group about control cities, and the difference between control cities on an exit sign vs. control cities for the highway itself.  A non-roadgeek was complaining about the fact that the CT 229 exit eastbound on I-84 listed Bristol as a control city, and that A. West St did not go to Bristol, and B. That Bristol was a dying insignificant city, and they should have used something like Hartford.  I had to explain that the control city on the exit sign is a destination that many using the exit would head toward, and that it could be anywhere, even a village of 100 people (Bristol has 60,000).  OTOH, a control city for the highway itself is usually a larger city such as Hartford or Waterbury, and it changes once you pass the city.  In a previous post, I explained why Bristol is used eastbound but not westbound, and that A. You were already past Bristol westbound (tell that to MassDOT when it uses NYC as a control city for I-84 on I-90 eastbound), and B. There were already 2 exits for Bristol that you could have used that were more direct.  Furthermore, I had to explain that although the US 6 exit was a more time consuming way to get to Bristol than CT 72, it still took you there.  Oh, some people

[Max Rockatansky]

I have to do a presentation on safe winter driving in California.  Essentially I'll be talking about how to drive in the Tule Fog and about snow chains.  I have a chart explaining what the chain levels are and how to install them properly.  I also have a section about CHP pace cars, how to operate vehicle lights properly, the Caltrans quick map, VMS signs, and how to tell where an exit is on a state highway in the fog.  Should be interesting to see how many people get lost or have no idea what I'm talking about.

[Rothman]

I'd like to see the chart.