Random climate discussion

[J N Winkler]

Yes, but because I'm higher, heat should leave me more easily.

Not through convection.  Air pressure at 5280 feet is about 81% sea level, while it is around 96% at 1300 feet.

[JayhawkCO]

Yes, but because I'm higher, heat should leave me more easily.

Not through convection.  Air pressure at 5280 feet is about 81% sea level, while it is around 96% at 1300 feet.

The lower density of the air here decreases the air's ability to insulate in between layers of clothing.

[kphoger]

Still...  if I'm on a 700-mile driving trip, and I need to fill up with gas, and it's —10°F at the gas station pump with a stiff north wind, what am I supposed to do?  Put on a bunch of layers, a balaclava, a thick pair of gloves with liners?  I mean, it's not like I've been driving in all that stuff, so...

[JayhawkCO]

Still...  if I'm on a 700-mile driving trip, and I need to fill up with gas, and it's —10°F at the gas station pump with a stiff north wind, what am I supposed to do?  Put on a bunch of layers, a balaclava, a thick pair of gloves with liners?  I mean, it's not like I've been driving in all that stuff, so...

Get out of the car, prepay, pump gas, get back in the car while it finishes, get back out and put the pump away?  If it's really howling, a normal winter jacket that you'd be wearing while driving will keep you warm enough for that limited time. Again, maybe I'm just used to being colder given where I grew up. I rarely bring a jacket when running errands around town because I'm only outside for 30 seconds at a time, even if it's down to 20° or so.

[kphoger]

Still...  if I'm on a 700-mile driving trip, and I need to fill up with gas, and it's —10°F at the gas station pump with a stiff north wind, what am I supposed to do?  Put on a bunch of layers, a balaclava, a thick pair of gloves with liners?  I mean, it's not like I've been driving in all that stuff, so...

Get out of the car, prepay, pump gas, get back in the car while it finishes, get back out and put the pump away?  If it's really howling, a normal winter jacket that you'd be wearing while driving will keep you warm enough for that limited time. Again, maybe I'm just used to being colder given where I grew up. I rarely bring a jacket when running errands around town because I'm only outside for 30 seconds at a time, even if it's down to 20° or so.

I never leave the pump unattended.  I don't trust the shutoff switch.

[JayhawkCO]

Still...  if I'm on a 700-mile driving trip, and I need to fill up with gas, and it's —10°F at the gas station pump with a stiff north wind, what am I supposed to do?  Put on a bunch of layers, a balaclava, a thick pair of gloves with liners?  I mean, it's not like I've been driving in all that stuff, so...

Get out of the car, prepay, pump gas, get back in the car while it finishes, get back out and put the pump away?  If it's really howling, a normal winter jacket that you'd be wearing while driving will keep you warm enough for that limited time. Again, maybe I'm just used to being colder given where I grew up. I rarely bring a jacket when running errands around town because I'm only outside for 30 seconds at a time, even if it's down to 20° or so.

I never leave the pump unattended.  I don't trust the shutoff switch.

I don't go far, but I'm fine going into the car if the weather is ridiculous. I can still see the pump in the rearview.

[jlam]

Here's a good climate for you, Poips:

[Max Rockatansky]

The full forecast is much better:

[Scott5114]

40 C would be comfortable to see in major city.

So...Oklahoma City? Dallas? San Antonio? Austin? Houston? Corpus Christi? El Paso? Heck, even Kansas City gets up to 40° C sometimes.

[kphoger]

40 C would be comfortable to see in major city.

So...Oklahoma City? Dallas? San Antonio? Austin? Houston? Corpus Christi? El Paso? Heck, even Kansas City gets up to 40° C sometimes.

Kuwait City...

[Max Rockatansky]

104F is a regular thing around Fresno.  I certainly wouldn't say it is comfortable.

[Brandon]

104F is a regular thing around Fresno.  I certainly wouldn't say it is comfortable.

Depends on where one is.  Out West, where the dew points are low and the air is dry, it's not bad.  In the Midwest and South, where the dew points can be upwards of 70^oF in the summer, and sometimes hitting 80^oF, it's a different story.

[Max Rockatansky]

Or the rancid humid hell of an Orlando summer where I was living previous to moving back west.  Nonetheless it's not as though even a dry 104F doesn't lend itself too much in the way of outdoor recreation.  I tend to get my activities started before sunrise and done before 9 AM during the summer.

[jgb191]

Well earlier this summer we did see temperatures of 104 degrees coupled with 80-degree dew points to produce Heat Index in the 120s for two straight weeks in South Texas.

[triplemultiplex]

Any air temperature hotter than body temperature is way too hot.

[kphoger]

I agree that "but it's a dry heat" has a ceiling.  It's not as if dry heat simply can't be uncomfortably hot.  Definitely not true.  But the upper limit of comfort is certainly lower in humid regions.

[JayhawkCO]

I agree that "but it's a dry heat" has a ceiling.  It's not as if dry heat simply can't be uncomfortably hot.  Definitely not true.  But the upper limit of comfort is certainly lower in humid regions.

For sure. The hottest and coldest I've ever felt were both in very humid areas. Kansas City for the hot, and surprisingly, New Orleans for the cold. It was 50 degrees in New Orleans with a drizzle and I just had a hoodie and not a warm jacket. That cold soaked into my bones.

[jgb191]

People don't realize this but dry heat can be more lethal than wet heat, especially if you don't drink enough water.  In the deserts where dew points are less than 50 degrees but the temperatures are triple-digits, you lose water at a much faster rate than in the Gulf Coast regions.  Both can be lethal, but in my experience dry heat was the greater of the two evils.

As you've no-doubt have guessed, I prefer summer over winter.  Not that I relished many of the days this summer, but I dread our winter even more.

[kphoger]

... and surprisingly, New Orleans for the cold. It was 50 degrees in New Orleans with a drizzle and I just had a hoodie and not a warm jacket. That cold soaked into my bones.

This may have some bearing on why you tolerate cold better than I do:  you live in a drier climate.  I know you've lived elsewhere, but still.  As I mentioned earlier, dry cold doesn't seem to bother me quite as much as humid cold.  Below a certain point, though, cold is just painful.

People don't realize this but dry heat can be more lethal than wet heat, especially if you don't drink enough water.  In the deserts where dew points are less than 50 degrees but the temperatures are triple-digits, you lose water at a much faster rate than in the Gulf Coast regions.  Both can be lethal, but in my experience dry heat was the greater of the two evils.

I've spent quite a bit of time in the Chihuahuan Desert of southern Coahuila.  Some of those times have involved manual labor with a mattock, shovel, and wheelbarrow.  For example, one year, we went in July, and demolished a placa roof.  That involved destroying the roof (while standing on it) using mattocks and San Angelo bars, then shoveling the rubble into wheelbarrows, then dumping the wheelbarrows into a pickup truck, then driving out to a different location, then shoveling the rubble back out of the pickup truck again–then go back and do it all again, multiple trips per day, for two or three days.  High elevation (about 5000 feet), with temps in the 90s every day.  Hard work, no doubt.

But I can get at least that exhausted just by mowing my lawn for an hour here in Wichita if the temp is over about 98.  I have to take more frequent breaks doing manual labor in this humid heat, and surprisingly I find it necessary to consume more water as well.  I get soaked with sweat working in this humid heat, yet in Mexico I hardly sweat at all some days (or it evaporates right away).

I don't know, I guess maybe my body is more conditioned to dry heat than a lot of other people.  I also drink a lot less liquid when working in dry heat than other people say is necessary.

[JayhawkCO]

... and surprisingly, New Orleans for the cold. It was 50 degrees in New Orleans with a drizzle and I just had a hoodie and not a warm jacket. That cold soaked into my bones.

This may have some bearing on why you tolerate cold better than I do:  you live in a drier climate.  I know you've lived elsewhere, but still.  As I mentioned earlier, dry cold doesn't seem to bother me quite as much as humid cold.  Below a certain point, though, cold is just painful.

When I go outside when cold, I can put on all my gear and at least be reasonably comfortable. I might not want to spend an hour outside in -10° wind chill, but it won't immediately be intolerable for me. When I walk outside in the Midwest and it's 98° with 85% humidity, I immediately feel oppressed and want to get out of the heat as quickly as possible. There is no planning for heat; there is for cold.

[kphoger]

When I walk outside in the Midwest and it's 98° with 85% humidity, I immediately feel oppressed and want to get out of the heat as quickly as possible.

Yeah, 85% humidity is brutal.  As I mentioned, that weather zaps my energy as well.  But I can be outside in 98°F dry weather with little problem.

There is no planning for heat; there is for cold.

Exactly, but not in the way you meant.  There is no need to plan for heat (except to bring water).  But there is a need to plan for cold, including wearing multiple layers of clothing, and buying specialized gear to protect you from the painful air.

Is it colder than you expected?  Not prepared for it?  Too bad!

Is it hotter than you expected?  Not prepared for it?  Just take your shirt off and find some shade.



It's not like I'm going to convince you that hot is better than cold.  And you're not going to convince me that cold is better than hot.  We're different people.

[mgk920]

Dress like fans going to a late season game at Lambeau Field.



Mike

[kphoger]

Dress like fans going to a late season game at Lambeau Field.

I mean, that's basically the gist of what people are telling me:  Cold weather is just fine, as long as you put on so much stuff that you can no longer feel the weather.  Which is kind of a silly argument to me.

[JayhawkCO]

Dress like fans going to a late season game at Lambeau Field.

I mean, that's basically the gist of what people are telling me:  Cold weather is just fine, as long as you put on so much stuff that you can no longer feel the weather.  Which is kind of a silly argument to me.

Isn't that kind of the same thing as ducking under a tree for shade?

[kphoger]

Isn't that kind of the same thing as ducking under a tree for shade?

Maybe sort of.  On the other hand, your solution to bitter cold wasn't "get to where it's sunny".