Traffic signal

[kphoger]

Here's something you don't see every day.

When uploading from mobile, please let us know where to look.  This is what pulled up for me, and I do indeed see pavement every day.  (I figured it out eventually.)

[renegade]

Here's something you don't see every day.

I see pavement every day.

[Amtrakprod]

Well okay:

https://youtu.be/NMXMfC_WP_E


iPhone

[Jet380]

Well okay:

https://youtu.be/NMXMfC_WP_E


iPhone

Interesting! I wonder if this was programmed by a Japanese traffic engineer.

Japan has the unusual standard of displaying green arrows alongside a red ball and then terminating them with the yellow ball.

https://youtu.be/nzBtz_WeAC4?t=74

[jakeroot]

^^^
That's a great point! Japan was the first thing I thought of when I watched the video. How odd, although drivers seem to be figuring it out.

[STLmapboy]

Odd light placement and a miniscule street sign at Kuda Ct/Watson Rd. https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5788623,-90.3276109,3a,27.5y,216.54h,93.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIEz6lBus1oIita2cmCmQPg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[US71]

Don't know if I posted this previously:
Sedalia, MO 2002  (no longer exist)

[jakeroot]

Odd light placement and a miniscule street sign at Kuda Ct/Watson Rd. https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5788623,-90.3276109,3a,27.5y,216.54h,93.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIEz6lBus1oIita2cmCmQPg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Cali-style there. I would think near-side on a pole would have had better visibility.

Don't know if I posted this previously:
Sedalia, MO 2002  (no longer exist)

I don't know either, but those are lovely. I can see they were still there as of 2008. The signals that replaced them don't look much newer than about 2011.

I think the "wait" with the red border around it is my favorite part, but that weirdly-shaped green orb is pretty interesting too. GSV shows the red orbs for a couple approaches having the same fading issue (if that's what it is).

[JoePCool14]

Don't know if I posted this previously:
Sedalia, MO 2002  (no longer exist)

That's crazy to think those pictures was taken in 2002. Looks like it should be much older than that.

[kphoger]

I'm just amazed that Ford station wagon was still running in 2002.

[roadfro]

Don't know if I posted this previously:
Sedalia, MO 2002  (no longer exist)

That "wait" signal is really awesome. I've not seen one like that before. Thanks for sharing!

[Amtrakprod]

Jake you know anything about this light:

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.2753607,-122.465339,3a,37.7y,4.69h,85.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suAYVV0RBaLtFE1K3VOjZuA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[mrsman]

Well okay:

https://youtu.be/NMXMfC_WP_E


iPhone

Interesting! I wonder if this was programmed by a Japanese traffic engineer.

Japan has the unusual standard of displaying green arrows alongside a red ball and then terminating them with the yellow ball.

https://youtu.be/nzBtz_WeAC4?t=74

The newer signals in MA are quite nice.  Many of the older signals, like this one, are just plain weird.

[mrsman]

Here's something you don't see every day.

I see that it's also like that on Germania St, on the other side of the channel.

Certainly an interesting situation. Given the other install like this posted before, I'm guessing this must be a legal combo?

Side-note: great signal placement.

These signals are interesting, but given that we want to avoid driver confusion, similar situations should probably just feature a 4-aspect FYA signal (where the red arrow never lights up).

Another interesting aspect is that they even put an interchange here in the first place.  From I-55's perspective, this is a normal diamond interchange.  But how do they expect people to be able to get to I-55 north from here?  It would seem to make more sense to not put an entrance and exit so close to the channel so that people can use both directions of the freeway.

[jakeroot]

Jake you know anything about this light:

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.2753607,-122.465339,3a,37.7y,4.69h,85.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suAYVV0RBaLtFE1K3VOjZuA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

I think it was brought up before.

The red orb on top is for traffic on the far side of the railway crossing, and the lower red orb is for traffic at the stop line. The setup is out of date and should be replaced with a standard three-orb RYG setup. Despite having two red orbs, both are difficult to see in practice.

[jakeroot]

Here's something you don't see every day.

I see that it's also like that on Germania St, on the other side of the channel.

Certainly an interesting situation. Given the other install like this posted before, I'm guessing this must be a legal combo?

Side-note: great signal placement.

These signals are interesting, but given that we want to avoid driver confusion, similar situations should probably just feature a 4-aspect FYA signal (where the red arrow never lights up).

Another interesting aspect is that they even put an interchange here in the first place.  From I-55's perspective, this is a normal diamond interchange.  But how do they expect people to be able to get to I-55 north from here?  It would seem to make more sense to not put an entrance and exit so close to the channel so that people can use both directions of the freeway.

I think an FYA signal would be acceptable for Germania St, although not necessarily allowed on the other side since the left turn from Carondolet involves an option lane.

I have to wonder not just about the interchange itself, but how busy those left turns actually are. St Louis traffic never really struck me as "busy", and these two interchanges seem pretty quiet even by STL standards. I really wonder if it's necessary to even have those signals anymore.

[Amtrakprod]

Well okay:

https://youtu.be/NMXMfC_WP_E


iPhone

Interesting! I wonder if this was programmed by a Japanese traffic engineer.

Japan has the unusual standard of displaying green arrows alongside a red ball and then terminating them with the yellow ball.

https://youtu.be/nzBtz_WeAC4?t=74

The newer signals in MA are quite nice.  Many of the older signals, like this one, are just plain weird.

Yeah our old lights are so embarrassing tbh compared to our new ones.

Old:

New:



iPhone

[STLmapboy]

Here's something you don't see every day.

I see that it's also like that on Germania St, on the other side of the channel.

Certainly an interesting situation. Given the other install like this posted before, I'm guessing this must be a legal combo?

Side-note: great signal placement.

These signals are interesting, but given that we want to avoid driver confusion, similar situations should probably just feature a 4-aspect FYA signal (where the red arrow never lights up).

Another interesting aspect is that they even put an interchange here in the first place.  From I-55's perspective, this is a normal diamond interchange.  But how do they expect people to be able to get to I-55 north from here?  It would seem to make more sense to not put an entrance and exit so close to the channel so that people can use both directions of the freeway.

I think an FYA signal would be acceptable for Germania St, although not necessarily allowed on the other side since the left turn from Carondolet involves an option lane.

I have to wonder not just about the interchange itself, but how busy those left turns actually are. St Louis traffic never really struck me as "busy", and these two interchanges seem pretty quiet even by STL standards. I really wonder if it's necessary to even have those signals anymore.

I just noticed Germania has one of the span wires attached to a billboard pole.

[jakeroot]

Here's something you don't see every day.

I see that it's also like that on Germania St, on the other side of the channel.

Certainly an interesting situation. Given the other install like this posted before, I'm guessing this must be a legal combo?

Side-note: great signal placement.

These signals are interesting, but given that we want to avoid driver confusion, similar situations should probably just feature a 4-aspect FYA signal (where the red arrow never lights up).

Another interesting aspect is that they even put an interchange here in the first place.  From I-55's perspective, this is a normal diamond interchange.  But how do they expect people to be able to get to I-55 north from here?  It would seem to make more sense to not put an entrance and exit so close to the channel so that people can use both directions of the freeway.

I think an FYA signal would be acceptable for Germania St, although not necessarily allowed on the other side since the left turn from Carondolet involves an option lane.

I have to wonder not just about the interchange itself, but how busy those left turns actually are. St Louis traffic never really struck me as "busy", and these two interchanges seem pretty quiet even by STL standards. I really wonder if it's necessary to even have those signals anymore.

I just noticed Germania has one of the span wires attached to a billboard pole.

I think that's actually attached to a power pole behind one of the signal masts. If you follow the wire from the billboard, you can see it run behind the signal mast and into the power pole.

[Amtrakprod]

Why are NYC's traffic lights so out of date?

I feel like this needs to be said because new NYC installs still use 8-inch signals AFAIK, and no signal per lane is ever followed basically. In the last 20 years, I've only seen the addition of countdown crosswalks, FYAs (Thank god!), and bicycle signals.

[Amtrakprod]

While on the topic of NYC traffic lights, uhhh what is going on here: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7203695,-73.9939986,3a,16.4y,316.06h,97.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWf4dmukbO-FGFxncwkEY_A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[jeffandnicole]

Why are NYC's traffic lights so out of date?

I feel like this needs to be said because new NYC installs still use 8-inch signals AFAIK, and no signal per lane is ever followed basically. In the last 20 years, I've only seen the addition of countdown crosswalks, FYAs (Thank god!), and bicycle signals.

8" signals are permitted on 30 mph and slower roadways when the light is no more than 120 feet from the stop line.

The 1 signal per lane requirement is when the speed limit or 85th percentile speed is 45 mph or greater.

[SignBridge]

J&N, the one signal per lane as it relates to the 85th percentile speed is a recommendation, not a required standard. See. Sec. 4D-11, table 4D-1 on P.461 of the 2009 manual.

The only actual standard (requirement) is for a minimum of two signals for every approach. There are of course, many recommendations for additional heads in various situations.

[jeffandnicole]

J&N, the one signal per lane as it relates to the 85th percentile speed is a recommendation, not a required standard. See. Sec. 4D-11, table 4D-1 on P.461 of the 2009 manual.

The only actual standard (requirement) is for a minimum of two signals for every approach. There are of course, many recommendations for additional heads in various situations.

True, bad wording on my part.

Either way, either standard/recommendation most likely is not applicable to the NYC intersections referenced above.

[jakeroot]

Why are NYC's traffic lights so out of date?

I feel like this needs to be said because new NYC installs still use 8-inch signals AFAIK, and no signal per lane is ever followed basically. In the last 20 years, I've only seen the addition of countdown crosswalks, FYAs (Thank god!), and bicycle signals.

In the span wire thread, I made this point about 8 inch signals:

I think the primary argument [for British Columbia recommending 8-inch/200mm signals for decades] was that 300mm signals did not provide enough additional visibility for them to absolutely require it. 300mm signals have always been an option, and they've been installed under all circumstances (primary, secondary, auxiliary) for decades. The difference being that it's never been a requirement. It's similar to the "category b" section of MUTCD 2E: destinations can be 20" UC, but this is not strictly necessary, as 16" UC provides sufficient readability under most circumstances. Similarly, 200mm signals provide sufficient visibility under most circumstances. I suspect the change to 300mm signals will make signals cheaper and easier to install, especially in terms of mounting hardware, with improved visibility being only a small benefit (and only under certain circumstances at that).

Basically: it's really not necessary to use 12 inch signals as they do not provide a substantial benefit under a certain speed and within a certain distance of the stop line.

We wouldn't require signals right on the stop line to be 12 inches, right? That would be overkill (WSDOT calls for 8 inch signal heads for stop-line signals). The permitting of 8 inch arrows is under very specific circumstances (only so far from the stop line, and only under certain speeds) because, within those circumstances, 8 inch signals are perfectly visible. 12 inch signal heads would be overkill. The same way that 48" stop signs would be overkill at a small neighborhood intersection .