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Intersections with NO turning lanes

Started by webny99, May 11, 2017, 11:21:40 PM

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webny99

What are the busiest four-way intersections in your area with no turn lanes whatsoever on any of the approaches?

It can be any type of intersection, although signalized ones will probably be busiest.


CtrlAltDel

Does something like this count?

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8750831,-87.9130031,51m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

You can turn in any appropriate direction, but there's no dedicated lanes for turns.
Interstates clinched: 4, 57, 275 (IN-KY-OH), 465 (IN), 640 (TN), 985
State Interstates clinched: I-26 (TN), I-75 (GA), I-75 (KY), I-75 (TN), I-81 (WV), I-95 (NH)

jeffandnicole

Thousands of examples in NJ.  Here's 2.  https://goo.gl/maps/XztSDSPsoMB2

In fact, I want to say the majority of intersections across the country don't have turn lanes.  Most of them are just small side roads that don't necessitate additional pavement for the turning lanes.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: webny99 on May 12, 2017, 10:47:05 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 12, 2017, 10:20:12 AM
Thousands of examples in NJ.  Here's 2.  https://goo.gl/maps/XztSDSPsoMB2

In fact, I want to say the majority of intersections across the country don't have turn lanes.  Most of them are just small side roads that don't necessitate additional pavement for the turning lanes.

Hence "busiest"  :D

It's NJ.  They all qualify!   :biggrin:  But yeah, I did miss that in the post.  In reference to NJ, they have gotten *better* in installing turn lanes.  But they are still often short lanes, and a frustratingly high number of them don't have left turn arrows.

kphoger

Not many busy ones in my neck of the woods.  Woodlawn/Dougas and Woodlawn/Lincoln would be contenders, but they don't really make traffic back up much.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

jp the roadgeek

This one in my town always backs up during evening rush hour, and/or when there's a wake at the funeral home (white house on the left). One car gets too far to the right to make a left, and it backs up over a half mile (if you rotate 180 degrees, it backs up around the corner in the distance).

https://goo.gl/maps/FjFoR6qq4jD2

Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

dvferyance

What drives me nuts is that in my area we have intersections with turning lanes but not makes as to which lane is for what. Is the left lane for left turns only or is the right lane for right turns only? who knows?

signalman

Quote from: dvferyance on May 12, 2017, 08:56:12 PM
What drives me nuts is that in my area we have intersections with turning lanes but not makes as to which lane is for what. Is the left lane for left turns only or is the right lane for right turns only? who knows?
If there's no lane markings or signs denoting that the left/right lane are left/right turn only, then both lanes one could either turn or go straight (assuming the intersection is not a T).  Are you talking about something like this? https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8622686,-74.5701776,3a,75y,94.81h,64.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSmHNysTlpPMQUvXuvr6pPQ!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fmaps%2Fphotothumb%2Ffd%2Fv1%3Fbpb%3DChAKDnNlYXJjaC5UQUNUSUxFEkAKEgnJ7SdRE6DDiRHpD1Xl6S0YvRIKDegXWxgVQoCN0xoSCe2_ziYWoMOJETwPBx_haAnuKgoN6BdbGBVCgI3TGgQIVhBW%26gl%3DUS!7i3328!8i1664!6m1!1e1

jakeroot

Vancouver, BC is infamous for its long, wide boulevards with no turning lanes. Here's a large junction with no turn lanes downtown (Georgia & Burrard):


sbeaver44

Harrisburg city probably has a busier one, but Lisburn Road at Rossmoyne Road has no turning lanes.  The AADT on Lisburn there is 9,400 and most of that traffic is AM traffic going left towards Rossmoyne Business Park and US 15.  Lisburn frequently backs up past Arcona Rd before 9 am.

3101 Lisburn Rd

https://goo.gl/maps/VsvMxEvo3VR2

Nexus 6P


index

NCDOT is generally very good at adding turning lanes to all of their busy intersections, however, there are a few examples of busy intersections which lack turn lanes.

This intersection between Unionville-Indian Trail Road, Indian Trail Road, and Matthews-Indian Trail Road is rather busy during rush hour. Most of the roads serving Union County are two lanes, even for large suburban areas, which can make for awful backup in the morning and evening.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.0786289,-80.66683,16.82z
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Counties traveled

roadman65

I had a cop once tell my dad that on roads with no turning lane that its illegal to pass on the right despite their being room for two cars to be there safely and most of all being safe.

Deerfield Blvd in Orlando is that way and now with the new Tapestry Development on Carroll Street in Kissimmee, no one thought to add a turn lane at the intersection leading in and out of it.  No room to pass there unlike Deerfield which is two lanes but could be striped for three.
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tradephoric

US-24 (8-lane boulevard) crosses Plymouth Road (6-lane boulevard) with no turn lanes at the main intersection.  This is a Michigan Left/Parallel Flow Intersection and i don't know if it really counts to what the OP is after.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3712855,-83.2756547,83m/data=!3m1!1e3

catsynth

There are parts of Market Street in downtown Sam Francisco where as a private motorist, one can not make a turn onto the boulevard, or if already on cannot turn off.

Mission Street in the central part of the Mission District has a bizarre traffic pattern which is the opposite.  You can't go straight on the street, and must turn off after two blocks.  This repeats between 16th and 24th.
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tradephoric

Quote from: catsynth on June 15, 2017, 01:54:05 PM
There are parts of Market Street in downtown Sam Francisco where as a private motorist, one can not make a turn onto the boulevard, or if already on cannot turn off.

Similar setup to this on Canal Street in New Orleans.  Just a bunch of NO LEFT TURN signs...

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.9511386,-90.0659644,3a,75y,264.41h,83.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-Va_kE0vy4DDEqAkkb6K_Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

jakeroot

Also in San Francisco, long stretches of 19th Avenue in the Sunset area have no left turns.

webny99

I was mentioning this intersection in another thread, so I thought I might mention it here as well.
Atlantic Ave & Five Mile Line Road in Penfield, NY.

Volumes are around 16,000 on the western leg, 10,000 on the eastern leg, and 10,000 on the northern and southern legs.
Is it possible, from those numbers, to calculate the total number of cars that pass through the intersection, as well as the number of cars making each of the twelve movements?
My estimate is around 24 - 25K, which could be one of the highest in the US, if not the world (obviously only including roads with one lane per direction). Thousands and thousands of cars use the shoulders here every day, especially southbound and eastbound. I believe it is practically unheard of in the US for these type of volumes to be relying on the shoulder as a travel lane on a main state route like this.


Interestingly, this intersection is slated for replacement with a roundabout in 2020.
Approximate PM peak hour volumes: 1050 EB, 600 WB, 550 NB, 400 SB for a total of 2600, divide by 60 minutes = 43.3 cars per minute.
What types of analyses have been done regarding the max capacity of roundabouts?
Can a single lane roundabout handle 43 cars per minute, as this one will need to?
Will the current delays at peak times dissolve, or get worse?

1995hoo

There are a lot of intersections around here with no turn lanes, so trying to pick the busiest one would be rather difficult. The intersection that comes to mind when I see this thread, however, is the "Barnes Dance" intersection at 7th & H NW near Verizon Center. Not only are there no turn lanes, no turns have been permitted at all since the "Barnes Dance" was implemented, although a lot of drivers (especially Uber drivers and cabbies) think that rule doesn't apply to them. The police do sometimes enforce it, too; I recently saw some idiot make a right turn directly ahead of a cop, who immediately put on the lights and pulled him over.

https://goo.gl/maps/sUE65XEkcob1ksFBA
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
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commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

kphoger

Quote from: webny99 on June 19, 2019, 08:58:25 AM
Atlantic Ave & Five Mile Line Road in Penfield, NY.

... My estimate is around 24 - 25K ...

Interestingly, this intersection is slated for replacement with a roundabout in 2020 ... Can a single lane roundabout handle 43 cars per minute, as this one will need to?

According to a WisDOT manual published last month (.pdf warning), 25k AADT is the cutoff between single-lane and multi-lane roundabouts–along with the caveat that "capacities vary substantially depending on entering traffic volumes and turning movements."
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: 1995hoo on June 19, 2019, 09:48:57 AM
There are a lot of intersections around here with no turn lanes, so trying to pick the busiest one would be rather difficult. The intersection that comes to mind when I see this thread, however, is the "Barnes Dance" intersection at 7th & H NW near Verizon Center. Not only are there no turn lanes, no turns have been permitted at all since the "Barnes Dance" was implemented, although a lot of drivers (especially Uber drivers and cabbies) think that rule doesn't apply to them. The police do sometimes enforce it, too; I recently saw some idiot make a right turn directly ahead of a cop, who immediately put on the lights and pulled him over.

https://goo.gl/maps/sUE65XEkcob1ksFBA

I can see Uber drivers doing it because their GPS told them to.  Honestly, the Uber GPS has a lot to be desired, and frequently recommends turns and u-turns where they're not permitted.

Hot Rod Hootenanny

Steve, Mike, Scott, and even Eric can comfirm this one...today (or tomorrow)
C-bus, Broad & High: https://goo.gl/maps/nwHJH4CeNPTZqD848
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webny99

Quote from: kphoger on June 19, 2019, 02:16:04 PM
According to a WisDOT manual published last month (.pdf warning), 25k AADT is the cutoff between single-lane and multi-lane roundabouts–along with the caveat that "capacities vary substantially depending on entering traffic volumes and turning movements."

Thanks! That document contains a lot of interesting info. Given typical volumes of right around 25K at this intersection, I'm really curious to see what happens. It would be silly to create a multi-lane roundabout without widening the entire road segment, which I don't see happening (though it's certainly needed).

On the other hand, there is this (below), which actually discourages a roundabout at this type of location (the end of a coordinated signal system). Signal timing here is perfect, yet there are still backups at the existing signal. Eastbound vehicles arrive in extremely lengthy waves of 25 - 40 vehicles at a time, and I wonder if that might be a bit much for a single lane roundabout to handle. Said eastbound traffic disperses as follows: roughly 60% continuing east, 30% turning left (north), and 10% or less turning right (south).

Quote
17.2 Adjacent Intersections and Highway Segments and Coordinated Signal Systems
It is generally undesirable to have a roundabout located near a signalized intersection. A strategic level traffic
assessment of system conditions of a series of roundabouts analysis is needed to determine how appropriate it
is to locate a roundabout within a coordinated signal network. There may be situations where an intersection
within the coordinated signal system requires a very long cycle which is caused by high side road traffic or large
percentage of turning movements and is dictating operations and reducing the overall efficiency for the
coordinated system... A traffic analysis is needed to evaluate each specific location.

1995hoo

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 19, 2019, 02:26:37 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 19, 2019, 09:48:57 AM
There are a lot of intersections around here with no turn lanes, so trying to pick the busiest one would be rather difficult. The intersection that comes to mind when I see this thread, however, is the "Barnes Dance" intersection at 7th & H NW near Verizon Center. Not only are there no turn lanes, no turns have been permitted at all since the "Barnes Dance" was implemented, although a lot of drivers (especially Uber drivers and cabbies) think that rule doesn't apply to them. The police do sometimes enforce it, too; I recently saw some idiot make a right turn directly ahead of a cop, who immediately put on the lights and pulled him over.

https://goo.gl/maps/sUE65XEkcob1ksFBA

I can see Uber drivers doing it because their GPS told them to.  Honestly, the Uber GPS has a lot to be desired, and frequently recommends turns and u-turns where they're not permitted.

I'm not inclined to be so generous to them, seeing as how I've routinely seen them driving in the pylon-separated bike lane on L Street and generally doing whatever they want.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

webny99

Tangentially related question - what is the best way to handle an intersection with no turning lanes?
Traffic signal, four-way stop, or roundabout?

kphoger

Quote from: webny99 on June 20, 2019, 10:11:53 AM
Tangentially related question - what is the best way to handle an intersection with no turning lanes?
Traffic signal, four-way stop, or roundabout?

I absolutely despise four-way stops.  If there's enough space for a roundabout, then there must also be space for turning lanes.  I'd therefore say a 4-phase stoplight setup would be best.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.



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