Mapping Variations in American English Dialect

[vtk]

http://www.businessinsider.com/22-maps-that-show-the-deepest-linguistic-conflicts-in-america-2013-6

A couple of these maps pertain to road terms.

[empirestate]

Saw that one myself. There seems to be a serious problem with the "freeway" one...

[1995hoo]

The map addressing "coleslaw" appears to be missing a category. People from the New York area say it more like "slore" (rhymes with "ore" as in "iron ore").

The "highway" one sounds right to me. I know some people from out West who would give directions from, say, DC to Charlottesville by saying "Take I-66 west to Highway 29," but I've never heard that usage by anyone who's not from out West. I think that map is a fine example of the difference between the technical usage of various terms like "freeway" or "expressway" and the real-world usage of such terms. I'll use the word "freeway" on this forum or in other contexts where a particular level of precision is needed, but in general conversation I think of it as a weird California term that regular people don't use.

The "merry/Mary/marry" one still irks me from over 30 years ago when I missed a question on a spelling test because the teacher mispronounced the word "marry" as though it were "Mary" and refused to use it in a sentence. She said "Mary," so I wrote "Mary" and she marked it wrong. Bitch.

[tdindy88]

I figured that "roundabout" would get heavy use in Central Indiana, thanks Carmel.

[1995hoo]

I figured that "roundabout" would get heavy use in Central Indiana, thanks Carmel.

The answer I would have given wasn't listed as an option (I don't know if they allowed respondents to volunteer other responses)–it may be either a traffic circle or a roundabout depending on the particular one in question.

[Brandon]

Quite interesting maps.  Who the heck calls a crawfish a crawdad?  And it's "pick-AHN' for pecan.  Anything else is just grating on the ears.

[J N Winkler]

I figured that "roundabout" would get heavy use in Central Indiana, thanks Carmel.

The answer I would have given wasn't listed as an option (I don't know if they allowed respondents to volunteer other responses)–it may be either a traffic circle or a roundabout depending on the particular one in question.

It is another instance of failing to allow respondents the opportunity to specify how precisely they wish to follow generally accepted engineering terminology, in which roundabout and traffic circle are differentiated by the existence of a yield-on-entry condition.  The description as given can also fit traffic calming circle or mini-roundabout.

Using adaptation for high-speed automobile travel as the criterion (in the question that attempts to map usage of highway versus freeway) also opens the door to possibilities such as racetrack, motocross course, etc.

To be frank, many of the map headings (which I presume were generated by the journalists for public presentation, not by the sociolinguistics researchers themselves, who would have been much more conscious of the need for neutral point of view) rubbed me the wrong way since they implied a particular regional usage is or should be normative.

[1995hoo]

....

To be frank, many of the map headings (which I presume were generated by the journalists for public presentation, not by the sociolinguistics researchers themselves, who would have been much more conscious of the need for neutral point of view) rubbed me the wrong way since they implied a particular regional usage is or should be normative.

Agreed; the heading on the map showing the word "been" annoyed me. It says, "Residents of the far North have an oddly Canadian way of pronouncing 'been.'" It shows people in Montana, South Dakota, Wisconsin, and Michigan pronouncing it with a short "e," kind of like the name "Ben." I grew up in the DC area and my parents are from Brooklyn and I've almost always heard it pronounced that way. The "bin" pronunciation strikes me as odd because there's no "i" in the word.

I note that on "y'all" they didn't distinguish between "y'all" and "all y'all." "Y'all" can be singular or indefinite; "all y'all" is always plural in that it includes everyone in a group, whereas "y'all" might include a smaller subset. ("Y'all" is one usage I definitely adopted during my years down at Duke because it's useful. It also seems to annoy people from up North for no apparent reason.)

They could have added the pronunciation of names like "Oregon," "Nevada," and "Monroe" as well. I think ultimately with a lot of these things most people grow up using the term (in the case of things like soda or the highway) or the pronunciation (in the case of things like "been") that their parents used. Of course, I suppose you also have things where your parent has some weird pronunciation that you'd be appalled to have anyone else hear. For some reason my father always insisted that the word "booger" is pronounced with the "oo" not as in "book" (the way everyone says it, including the character in Revenge of the Nerds) but rather as in "boolean." Think of the word "boo" (as in, what you do when you don't like the ref's call) and append "ger" to it. I'll never as long as I live forget the day my father, who was the Scoutmaster of our Boy Scout troop, used that word at a patrol leaders' council meeting and one of the other kids immediately yelled, "What the HELL is a 'BOO-ger'???!!!!!" Of course we all started laughing at my father, who couldn't figure it out and claimed that both pronunciations sound the same to him.

[US81]

The "merry/Mary/marry" one still irks me from over 30 years ago when I missed a question on a spelling test because the teacher mispronounced the word "marry" as though it were "Mary" and refused to use it in a sentence. She said "Mary," so I wrote "Mary" and she marked it wrong. Bitch.

Funny how long we remember that sort of thing. I had a teacher pronounce 'accurate' as "ac-crate", refuse to define it or use it in a sentence (as is required by the spelling bee, IIRC), so I thought it was some word I had not heard of, spelled it phonetically, and of course, was eliminated. Mrs. Jenkins, I'm still irked.

[agentsteel53]

racetrack

I would be endlessly amused if someone referred to the public roadway structure in question as a "racetrack".

"all right, son, what were you doing going around and around without taking one of the roads out?"
"gee officer, I was just waiting for the checkered flag!"

[agentsteel53]

The "merry/Mary/marry" one still irks me from over 30 years ago when I missed a question on a spelling test because the teacher mispronounced the word "marry" as though it were "Mary" and refused to use it in a sentence. She said "Mary," so I wrote "Mary" and she marked it wrong. Bitch.

terrible.  I grew up in Boston, so to me the three words are all very different.

[Brandon]

The "merry/Mary/marry" one still irks me from over 30 years ago when I missed a question on a spelling test because the teacher mispronounced the word "marry" as though it were "Mary" and refused to use it in a sentence. She said "Mary," so I wrote "Mary" and she marked it wrong. Bitch.

terrible.  I grew up in Boston, so to me the three words are all very different.

They sound the same to me.  However, cot and caught on the other hand sound completely different.

The "highway" question should've been phrased differently, IMHO.  They should asked what a controlled-access road is called: a) freeway, b) expressway, c) interstate, d) other, e) no word for such a thing.

[agentsteel53]

They sound the same to me.  However, cot and caught on the other hand sound completely different.

for me, those two words sound the same. 

The "highway" question should've been phrased differently, IMHO.  They should asked what a controlled-access road is called: a) freeway, b) expressway, c) interstate, d) other, e) no word for such a thing.

f) "what's a controlled-access road?"

[english si]

To be frank, many of the map headings (which I presume were generated by the journalists for public presentation, not by the sociolinguistics researchers themselves, who would have been much more conscious of the need for neutral point of view) rubbed me the wrong way since they implied a particular regional usage is or should be normative.

Agreed; the heading on the map showing the word "been" annoyed me. It says, "Residents of the far North have an oddly Canadian way of pronouncing 'been.'" It shows people in Montana, South Dakota, Wisconsin, and Michigan pronouncing it with a short "e," kind of like the name "Ben." I grew up in the DC area and my parents are from Brooklyn and I've almost always heard it pronounced that way. The "bin" pronunciation strikes me as odd because there's no "i" in the word.

You are doing the thing you didn't like when it came to "ben" with "bin".

"bin" and "been" being the same is the English English pronunciation. Worth pointing out that "bit" and "bin"/"been" and "bean" is 3 different vowel sounds (short, middle and long forms of the same shape?). "bean" has the same vowel sound as "seen"

Apparently, 'ee', 'ea' and 'i' sounds are hard for foreign English learners to tell apart.

It's worse in Kiwi (pronounced Kee-wee) accents where short i and e vowels don't seem to exist - bit sounds like beet.

This "how-to American Accent" video talks about the "ee/i" vowel sound with a different vowel to what I'd put in 'bin/been'. Though I would use such a sound for "audi", "kiwi" (twice), "seen", "seem", "seam", "wee", "wii".

I think I've established "bin" as legit pronunciation of "been", alongside "bean" and "ben". I guess this is what we get for non-phonetic spelling!

[agentsteel53]

I pronounce "bin" and "been" very similarly, but not identically.  "been", for me, is about 1/4 of the way in pitch between "bin" and "Ben" - all three are the same length of vowel.

[agentsteel53]

It's worse in Kiwi (pronounced Kee-wee) accents where short i and e vowels don't seem to exist - bit sounds like beet.

furthermore, "sex" sounds like "seex".  I was watching a New Zealand movie the other day and it took me about 5 minutes to pick up on that. 

[Brandon]

To be frank, many of the map headings (which I presume were generated by the journalists for public presentation, not by the sociolinguistics researchers themselves, who would have been much more conscious of the need for neutral point of view) rubbed me the wrong way since they implied a particular regional usage is or should be normative.

Agreed; the heading on the map showing the word "been" annoyed me. It says, "Residents of the far North have an oddly Canadian way of pronouncing 'been.'" It shows people in Montana, South Dakota, Wisconsin, and Michigan pronouncing it with a short "e," kind of like the name "Ben." I grew up in the DC area and my parents are from Brooklyn and I've almost always heard it pronounced that way. The "bin" pronunciation strikes me as odd because there's no "i" in the word.

You are doing the thing you didn't like when it came to "ben" with "bin".

"bin" and "been" being the same is the English English pronunciation. Worth pointing out that "bit" and "bin"/"been" and "bean" is 3 different vowel sounds (short, middle and long forms of the same shape?). "bean" has the same vowel sound as "seen"

Then there's the Canadian/Ontario pronunciation of been.  There, it sounds more like "bean" than "ben" or "bin".

[1995hoo]

To be frank, many of the map headings (which I presume were generated by the journalists for public presentation, not by the sociolinguistics researchers themselves, who would have been much more conscious of the need for neutral point of view) rubbed me the wrong way since they implied a particular regional usage is or should be normative.

Agreed; the heading on the map showing the word "been" annoyed me. It says, "Residents of the far North have an oddly Canadian way of pronouncing 'been.'" It shows people in Montana, South Dakota, Wisconsin, and Michigan pronouncing it with a short "e," kind of like the name "Ben." I grew up in the DC area and my parents are from Brooklyn and I've almost always heard it pronounced that way. The "bin" pronunciation strikes me as odd because there's no "i" in the word.

You are doing the thing you didn't like when it came to "ben" with "bin".

....

Yeah, I maybe didn't word that quite as well as I could have. What I was getting at is that to me, "bin" sounds a bit odd for "been" because I've always heard the "ben" pronunciation, but at the same time I recognize that "bin" is a very common pronunciation too. I kind of resented the author's way of essentially passing judgment that "bin" is correct and other pronunciations are "odd" or "wrong."

There are places where people pronounce other words with an "e" as though there were an "i"–in parts of the South, for example, someone might ask to borrow what sounds like a "pin" when he wants to use your writing instrument (a "pen," which to me has the same final "-en" sound as "ten" or "Ben" or "when"....or "been").


I suppose maybe the ideal word to use for this discussion on a website relating to roads would be "route"–"rowt" or "root"? (I've always used the "ow" version.)

[Brandon]

These Wikis aren't as detailed as I would like, but they do work for this thread:

Regional vocabularies of American English
North American English regional phonology

[agentsteel53]

Boston is "root" territory, but when I moved out west I found myself having switched to "rowt". 

"rowt 66" still sounds a bit funny to me. 

[Brandon]

Boston is "root" territory, but when I moved out west I found myself having switched to "rowt". 

"rowt 66" still sounds a bit funny to me. 

Sounds funny to me as well, but so does "root 66".  I'd pronounce it "US 66" or just "66", as I'd pronounce US-23 as just "23" or US-12 as just "12".  State routes get the additional identifier before them i.e. "M-66", "Illinois 1", "Wis 13", etc.  Interstates get the additional identifier sometimes i.e. "I-80" or just "80".

[kphoger]

Re:  roundabouts & traffic circles–
I highly doubt that the number of people surveyed who would have answered with specific design criteria for the former were any more than a drop in the bucket.

Re:  y'all–
And why no [i/you'uns[/i]?

Re:  marry/Mary/merry–
I've seen various maps regarding this, and I still have no idea how they're supposed to be pronounced differently.  Absolutely no clue.  To me, they're the same, and I don't recall every hearing anyone pronounce one differently.

Re:  soda/pop–
What?  No seltzer?

Re:  New Zealand–
I once sat in an outdoor hot tub in Utah, desperately trying for five minutes to figure out what language the people in there with me were speaking (this was a national park, so foreign tourists were to be expected).  Eventually it dawned on me that it was English.  Those crazy kiwis...



New polls for you guys/y'all to answer:

Reply if you say "hot dish" instead of "casserole", and state where you're from.

Reply if you've ever played "Duck duck grey duck" rather than "Duck duck goose", and state where you're from.

Reply if you put your groceries in a buggy rather than a cart, and state where you're from.

Reply if you say "kitty corner" instead of "catty corner", and state where you're from.

[Brandon]

^^

NE Illinois/SE Michigan, and I tend to use a lot more SE Michigan terms (party store) and pronunciations.

1. "casserole", but I have heard "hot dish" from time to time.
2. "duck duck goose".  WTF is "duck duck grey duck"?
3. "cart".  Amish folks use "buggies" on the roads.
4. "kitty corner".

And "traffic circle" tends to get more use than "roundabout" from what I've heard.  Of course, the traffic circles I've seen are operated like roundabouts whereby traffic in the circle has the right of way.

[agentsteel53]

Re:  marry/Mary/merry–
I've seen various maps regarding this, and I still have no idea how they're supposed to be pronounced differently.  Absolutely no clue.  To me, they're the same, and I don't recall every hearing anyone pronounce one differently.

marry rhymes with Barry.
merry rhymes with berry.
Mary rhymes with scary.

do you pronounce the vowel sounds differently in those three words?

Reply if you say "hot dish" instead of "casserole", and state where you're from.

I've never heard of "hot dish".  I've also heard casserole with a modifier... would one say "tuna hot dish"?

Reply if you say "kitty corner" instead of "catty corner", and state where you're from.

that's me.  seems to be "kitty corner" on both coasts, but my girlfriend (from Alaska) seems to be a "catty corner" sort.

oh, speaking of an Alaska regionalism - who here says "snow machine"?  (for a snowmobile, not a piece of ski resort equipment.)

also, "ATV", "four-wheeler", or "quad"?  I say "four-wheeler".

[kphoger]

marry rhymes with Barry.
merry rhymes with berry.
Mary rhymes with scary.

do you pronounce the vowel sounds differently in those three words?

Nope.  They all rhyme perfectly.  Try again