DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties

[Plutonic Panda]

I'm less likely to get out and go frequent businesses when I'm already pissed off about traffic congestion. I'd be more likely to stop and frequent one of the business along a road that doesn't have a lot of congestion given the fact that I'll have more time to do so.

[BJ59]

I'm less likely to get out and go frequent businesses when I'm already pissed off about traffic congestion. I'd be more likely to stop and freak, one of business along a road that doesn't have a lot of congestion given the fact that I'll have more time to do so.

Yeah, good point. I would agree with that on a road with low traffic. However, I still think a freeway still hurts businesses alongside service roads as they can be hard to access. For example, a McDonalds on an eastbound service road would be annoying to get to for a person traveling in the westbound freeway lanes. This annoyance may cause that person to not go to that store.

Of course, McDonalds is a bad example because there are so many of them, but in the case of a smaller chain or a small business, this could be harmful compared to an at-grade intersection where access would be easier and more convenient.

[In_Correct]

An at grade intersection is never convenient.  ...

Also I needed to get on a freeway yet decided not to until the traffic started flowing again.  So I did stop at a business and stayed there ... I imagine I would do the same if there is a traffic problem on The Interstate. 

As for business being on only one side ... Perhaps the perfect solution would be to build Archways. The Archways would need to span both the main lanes and be outside of The Frontage Roads. And / Or build duplicate restaurants some where on the other side also.

[Bobby5280]

I would think that businesses would be opposed to a freeway. All of the traffic jams occurring on adjacent roads to their businesses are probably beneficial as many people will get frustrated and tired and will stop at the fast-food chain to help hold them over until they're through the traffic.

Nearly all the businesses that would be affected along that stretch of US-380 are national chain stores. They're not small businesses with only one location. It's not going to hurt any of these chains by having one of their locations taken off line for perhaps a year. I'm sure TX DOT will make deals with these chains to help them rebuild outside of the proposed ROW.

If a freeway was built, people would have less of an incentive to have to go through all the work of exiting to get to the store.

I don't agree. The new freeway will have a much higher traffic capacity. It will make it easier for motorists to get to and from a specific store or restaurant. They're not going to be stuck going through nearly as many traffic signals. There is a lot of surface street intersections in the DFW metro where the traffic lights seem to take forever to go through one cycle.

If US-380 is upgraded to a freeway between Loop 288 and the DNT it will make that area much more attractive to more new businesses.

[sprjus4]

Here's another point... how many of those stopping are truly "long distance"  travelers? I would imagine in this area, the majority of the customer base are local residents living in the surrounding suburbs. They are going to keep going to that business, regardless of a traffic signal or overpass.

[Bobby5280]

The nice thing about having a freeway flanked by frontage roads: the people who live in the immediate area can stick to the frontage roads. The faster, thru traffic on the main travel lanes is separated from the slower moving local traffic. That is a far safer situation than having both local neighborhood traffic and long distance traffic thrown into the mix together.

[Road Hog]

An at grade intersection is never convenient.  ...

Also I needed to get on a freeway yet decided not to until the traffic started flowing again.  So I did stop at a business and stayed there ... I imagine I would do the same if there is a traffic problem on The Interstate. 

As for business being on only one side ... Perhaps the perfect solution would be to build Archways. The Archways would need to span both the main lanes and be outside of The Frontage Roads. And / Or build duplicate restaurants some where on the other side also.

Can you get Homestyle Cookies on these Archways?

[MaxConcrete]

The official FEIS was posted today for the section around the north of McKinney.
Notice: https://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/public-hearings/2023/notice-of-availability-of-final-environmental-impact-statement-feis-and-recor-1
EIS: https://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/US380EIS

The main document contains a huge amount of analysis of the options.

I had not previously seen a schematic of the interface between Spur 399 and US 380. It is on page 14 of the schematics. It looks good.
https://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/sites/default/files/docs/APPENDIX%20B%20-%20Design%20Schematic%20-%20Preferred%20Alternative-BLUE.pdf

[Bobby5280]

Yeah the "Y" interchange for the US-380 freeway and Spur 399 freeway looks interesting. If they build it as the plans in the PDF show, the ramps are going to be pretty wide. They're showing a Westbound US-380 ramp to Spur 399 three lanes wide. All of the ramps in the interchange are at least 2 lanes wide.

[MaxConcrete]

This month's eminent domain listing has 250 parcels for US 380. I don't think I've ever seen this many parcels for a specific project in a single month. Obviously this means that ROW acquisition is proceeding at full speed.

I have not reviewed any details of the parcels since the document has 2898 pages.

The statewide list includes 9 properties for NHHIP, which is less than previous months, which have had substantial eminent domain for NHHIP.

[MaxConcrete]

At the NCTCOG meeting last week, a Collin County representative announced that Collin County Commisioners Court approved $250 million to pay for all utility relocations for the US 380 project in Collin County. This funding ensures there are no delays relating to utility relocation.

The representative mentioned that TxDOT is proceeding with right-of-way acquisition at unprecedented speed, saying "they are setting new records in terms of acquisition of right-of-way faster than they ever have any other project in the state."

The representative called US 380 a "$8 billion project".

He called on the TxDOT and the NCTCOG RTC to allocate the remaining funding needed for construction.

Discussion starts at 1:13:10 in the video

[kernals12]

At the NCTCOG meeting last week, a Collin County representative announced that Collin County Commisioners Court approved $250 million to pay for all utility relocations for the US 380 project in Collin County. This funding ensures there are no delays relating to utility relocation.

The representative mentioned that TxDOT is proceeding with right-of-way acquisition at unprecedented speed, saying "they are setting new records in terms of acquisition of right-of-way faster than they ever have any other project in the state."

The representative called US 380 a "$8 billion project".

He called on the TxDOT and the NCTCOG RTC to allocate the remaining funding needed for construction.

Discussion starts at 1:13:10 in the video

$8 billion?! That seems very, very high for a mostly greenfield project.

[Bobby5280]

$8 billion probably refers to the entire freeway corridor spanning across Denton and McKinney. Most of that isn't greenfield work, but conversion of the existing US-380 corridor and removal of a lot of existing properties (not to mention ridiculous amounts of utilities to relocate). At least 2 new five-level directional stacks will be built (at junctions with the DNT and US-75).

[thisdj78]

I haven't driven from OKC to the Frisco/McKinney area in over 16 years until today. 380 is so congested now that Google Maps had me taking US82 to 289. I remapped this tonight but earlier today when I actually drove it, it was nearly 30 minutes quicker vs. I-35 to US380:

[Bobby5280]

You must have timed the traffic signals on TX-289 really well. Or it's a statement of just how badly clogged US-380 is getting.

There's well over a dozen traffic signaled intersections along TX-289 in the 16 mile stretch from Gunter down to the US-380 volleyball interchange in Prosper. It's pretty shocking how much Prosper has "blown up" with development going North of US-380 in the past 15 years.

[Road Hog]

Forget Prosper, those traffic lights on TX 289 are at least decently optimized and there are only a few. (Prosper is only 3 miles wide from north to south.)

There are already 10 signals along 289 in Celina alone from north to south:

• CR 134 (in front of CHS)

• Lynn Stambaugh Blvd.

• FM 455 (leading to downtown)

• Sunset Blvd. (in front of Brookshire's Supermarket)

• Celina Fire Station No. 1

• Glendenning Parkway

• Collin County Outer Loop

• Punk Carter Blvd.

• John Campbell Drive

• Frontier Blvd. (on Prosper line)

More signals are absolutely coming. Celina has a much bigger boner for traffic signals than Prosper seems to.

[Bobby5280]

I was counting all the traffic signals on TX-289 from US-380 going up thru Prosper and Celina up to where the last signals seem to be in Gunter.