BASE-BALL

[Henry]

The Braves are now accused of tanking in order to win a World Series:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/32600372/agent-scott-boras-tanking-mlb-competitive-cancer-led-atlanta-braves-world-series-title

Along the way, the Cubs and Astros are also cited for doing the exact same thing before winning their own titles in 2016 and 2017, respectively. I do remember watching the Cubs lose 100 games in the early 2010s before going on that miracle run that ended their 108-year championship drought, and at least their title is legitimate, unlike the Astros.

[NWI_Irish96]

The Braves are now accused of tanking in order to win a World Series:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/32600372/agent-scott-boras-tanking-mlb-competitive-cancer-led-atlanta-braves-world-series-title

Along the way, the Cubs and Astros are also cited for doing the exact same thing before winning their own titles in 2016 and 2017, respectively. I do remember watching the Cubs lose 100 games in the early 2010s before going on that miracle run that ended their 108-year championship drought, and at least their title is legitimate, unlike the Astros.

Scott Boras is an agent who makes more money when the players make more money. He will say anything and everything to try and get the players a bigger share of revenues.

[gr8daynegb]

The Braves are now accused of tanking in order to win a World Series:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/32600372/agent-scott-boras-tanking-mlb-competitive-cancer-led-atlanta-braves-world-series-title

Along the way, the Cubs and Astros are also cited for doing the exact same thing before winning their own titles in 2016 and 2017, respectively. I do remember watching the Cubs lose 100 games in the early 2010s before going on that miracle run that ended their 108-year championship drought, and at least their title is legitimate, unlike the Astros.

Scott Boras is an agent who makes more money when the players make more money. He will say anything and everything to try and get the players a bigger share of revenues.

If we look at the Cubs this year......bunch of higher paid guys in last years of deal, and Cubs were not going anywhere, did Boras think Cubs would let everyone walk for nothing?  We know Boras for trying to get every cent for his clients does not believe he in any way created this said issue lol

[Mark68]

Kinda what I expected to happen over the first two games. I think the Astros completely underestimated the Braves in the first game because they were distracted by the fact that the Dodgers weren't going to play in the WS and because they were fooled by the Braves' comparatively low winning percentage. Also, I don't think people realize how similar these two teams are in terms of stats. But now I think the Astros are on track. I'm predicting Astros in 6.

You should never be so confident in a team managed by Dusty Baker

That is so true. I have seen this guy ruin the careers of several players, especially pitchers.

Not just that, but he's one of the biggest managerial chokers in baseball history. He has a whole section on his Wikipedia page describing them all. The "˜93 Giants, the "˜02 Giants, the "˜03 Cubs, the "˜12 Reds, etc, just to name some of them.

Yeah I remember when he said that putting guys on base isn't important and just clogs up the bases. I remember the first year he managed the Giants they won 103 games but missed the postseason because the Braves won 104 games. 

I remember him letting his then 4-year old son almost get run over by JT Snow in the World Series.

[Henry]

The Braves are now accused of tanking in order to win a World Series:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/32600372/agent-scott-boras-tanking-mlb-competitive-cancer-led-atlanta-braves-world-series-title

Along the way, the Cubs and Astros are also cited for doing the exact same thing before winning their own titles in 2016 and 2017, respectively. I do remember watching the Cubs lose 100 games in the early 2010s before going on that miracle run that ended their 108-year championship drought, and at least their title is legitimate, unlike the Astros.

Scott Boras is an agent who makes more money when the players make more money. He will say anything and everything to try and get the players a bigger share of revenues.

If we look at the Cubs this year......bunch of higher paid guys in last years of deal, and Cubs were not going anywhere, did Boras think Cubs would let everyone walk for nothing?  We know Boras for trying to get every cent for his clients does not believe he in any way created this said issue lol

When the season began, Schwarber was already gone, and by midseason, so would Bryant, Rizzo and Baez. Gone are the days when dynasties would last for multiple seasons, which may be part of the reason why the Yankees haven't won another World Series in a dozen years, despite still making the postseason more often than not. The Dodgers' window is closing too, so they may prove that point once again.

[jp the roadgeek]

Look at the roller coaster ride the Red Sox have been for the last 15 years or so.  Win in 04, tail off a bit in 05, bottom out in 06, win again in 07, start the decline again in 08, bottom out in 09-10, blow it in 11, tank in 12, win it all in 13, bomb out again 14-16, better in 17, world beaters in 18, bomb out again 19-20, then respectable again this past year. 

[Flint1979]

Kinda what I expected to happen over the first two games. I think the Astros completely underestimated the Braves in the first game because they were distracted by the fact that the Dodgers weren't going to play in the WS and because they were fooled by the Braves' comparatively low winning percentage. Also, I don't think people realize how similar these two teams are in terms of stats. But now I think the Astros are on track. I'm predicting Astros in 6.

You should never be so confident in a team managed by Dusty Baker

That is so true. I have seen this guy ruin the careers of several players, especially pitchers.

Not just that, but he's one of the biggest managerial chokers in baseball history. He has a whole section on his Wikipedia page describing them all. The "˜93 Giants, the "˜02 Giants, the "˜03 Cubs, the "˜12 Reds, etc, just to name some of them.

Yeah I remember when he said that putting guys on base isn't important and just clogs up the bases. I remember the first year he managed the Giants they won 103 games but missed the postseason because the Braves won 104 games. 

I remember him letting his then 4-year old son almost get run over by JT Snow in the World Series.

I remember that too.

[Henry]

The countdown to December 1 is on: Will there be a work stoppage in MLB? After 26 years of labor peace, we may see a repeat of the most devastating strike to ever hit the sport.

[NWI_Irish96]

The countdown to December 1 is on: Will there be a work stoppage in MLB? After 26 years of labor peace, we may see a repeat of the most devastating strike to ever hit the sport.

It depends on the players. The current CBA is very favorable to the owners and they're going to call the players' bluff. The players have to be willing to give up the 2022 season if they want to get serious concessions.

[Stephane Dumas]

Major League Baseball is on lockout.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/32754352/everything-need-know-mlb-looming-lockout

Welcome to the end of baseball ... for a while, at least.

At 11:59 p.m. ET Wednesday, the collective bargaining agreement between Major League Baseball and the Major League Baseball Players Association expired. At 12:01 Thursday morning, the league informed the players that it had locked them out, beginning the game's first work stoppage in more than 25 years.


So what does that mean for the rest of the offseason? How long will it last? What are the sticking points in the negotiations? And what's a lockout, anyway?

ESPN baseball expert Jesse Rogers tackles those questions and more.

Latest: MLB, MLBPA fail to reach new labor agreement; league issues lockout | Playoff pitch, draft lottery in CBA talks

More: A brief history of MLB labor stoppages (ESPN+) | 'Oh my God, how can we do this?': An oral history of the 1994 MLB strike

How did we get here? What is a lockout -- and why now?
The last deal between Major League Baseball and the MLBPA was negotiated in 2016. The current collective bargaining agreement covers everything from how long the season will last to what kind of per diem players receive on the road. It also addresses the greater economics of the game, such as free agency and arbitration. And it ended at midnight. At 12:01, the owners locked out the players, hoping to push the union into a more urgent state of negotiation. It's essentially the antithesis of a players' strike. Since players don't get paid in the offseason, nor are there games, there's nothing for them to strike over. Instead, the league chose to halt all player activity as it relates to their teams. No free-agent signings, no use of team facilities -- in fact, no contact of any kind between team and player -- is allowed until a new agreement is reached.

How long is the lockout expected to last? Could games be lost next year?
Yes, games could be lost. That's always a possibility once a work stoppage occurs, but with three months until the regular season begins, it would be shocking if 2022 didn't go a full 162 games. There is a chance spring training doesn't start on time, using that period as a soft deadline to force some issues to get resolved, but we're far from that happening. The sides already lost a lot of money during the pandemic. Anything short of a full season would be another devastating blow to the sport, both economically and from a public relations standpoint.

[Henry]

Not the least bit surprised, but it was a good 26 years.

[thspfc]

Should this lockout continue into the regular season, it would be more than a paper cut to a sport that is currently dying of 1,000 paper cuts.

[tchafe1978]

I'm thinking they'll come to an agreement before the season begins, even if spring training is delayed a little bit. Neither side wants a repeat of 1994. Now that would be the death of baseball.

[Roadgeekteen]

I wonder who everyone is going to blame. My guess is Manfred as he is already hated by baseball fans.

[NWI_Irish96]

I'm thinking they'll come to an agreement before the season begins, even if spring training is delayed a little bit. Neither side wants a repeat of 1994. Now that would be the death of baseball.

The only way the season starts on time is if the players cave. The owners won't give an inch until some if not most of the season is lost.

[Billy F 1988]

I wonder who everyone is going to blame. My guess is Manfred as he is already hated by baseball fans.

He's been already blamed for the delayed restart of the season before given what COVID was doing because the MLBPA and the ownership groups of all the teams squabbled about money. And that's what this newest squabble is about. No matter what side fans pick, they'll never get what they want because the MLBPA and the ownership groups in MLB with Manfred in tow will screw them up to no end. If this doesn't get resolved, he will go down in history as the worst MLB commissioner.

[I-39]

Why does it seem that labor issues are more contentious in baseball than other sports?

And what exactly is the latest dispute over? Seriously, baseball players are some of the highest paid athletes in North American sports. How much more do they need? If anything, the owners need to impose a true salary cap and a 5 year limit on the length contracts. Yeah, I know that will never happen, but it should........

[NWI_Irish96]

Why does it seem that labor issues are more contentious in baseball than other sports?

And what exactly is the latest dispute over? Seriously, baseball players are some of the highest paid athletes in North American sports. How much more do they need? If anything, the owners need to impose a true salary cap and a 5 year limit on the length contracts. Yeah, I know that will never happen, but it should........

As a percentage of revenue, baseball players collectively earn less than the other sports. Players get about 40% of baseball revenue, where other sports it's closer to 50%.

In other sports, owners are required to spend a certain minimum amount on player salaries. In baseball, the Pittsburgh Pirates can consistently trade away their highest earning players for rookies making league minimum and keep their payroll to about 15% of the Dodgers payroll. That's not a sustainable mode.

[NWI_Irish96]

David Ortiz get into the baseball HOF on the first ballot but all the other steroid cheats are shut out. Apparently, in sports, cheating doesn't pay unless you play in New England.

Really glad I got to visit the HOF this summer while it was still clean.

[SectorZ]

David Ortiz get into the baseball HOF on the first ballot but all the other steroid cheats are shut out. Apparently, in sports, cheating doesn't pay unless you play in New England.

Really glad I got to visit the HOF this summer while it was still clean.

He tested "positive" for an unknown or (as Rob Manfred) said, possibly an even legal over the counter med. Never tested positive in the real world and was never accused by anyone otherwise.

Stop crapping all over New England. I bet you get REAL friggin' silent when it comes to Peyton Manning's "wife" getting HGH mailed to her home.

[NWI_Irish96]

David Ortiz get into the baseball HOF on the first ballot but all the other steroid cheats are shut out. Apparently, in sports, cheating doesn't pay unless you play in New England.

Really glad I got to visit the HOF this summer while it was still clean.

He tested "positive" for an unknown or (as Rob Manfred) said, possibly an even legal over the counter med. Never tested positive in the real world and was never accused by anyone otherwise.

Stop crapping all over New England. I bet you get REAL friggin' silent when it comes to Peyton Manning's "wife" getting HGH mailed to her home.

Well, I'm a Bears fan and not a Colts fan, plus the NFL was testing for HGH at that time.

[SectorZ]

David Ortiz get into the baseball HOF on the first ballot but all the other steroid cheats are shut out. Apparently, in sports, cheating doesn't pay unless you play in New England.

Really glad I got to visit the HOF this summer while it was still clean.

He tested "positive" for an unknown or (as Rob Manfred) said, possibly an even legal over the counter med. Never tested positive in the real world and was never accused by anyone otherwise.

Stop crapping all over New England. I bet you get REAL friggin' silent when it comes to Peyton Manning's "wife" getting HGH mailed to her home.

Well, I'm a Bears fan and not a Colts fan, plus the NFL was testing for HGH at that time.

Then Jeff Blake is my follow-up answer if you consider Tom Brady a cheater. Beyond that, I imagine your concept of "cheating" comes with very little science to back it up.

[Max Rockatansky]

The biggest difference with David Ortiz was that he was a really likable media darling.  Bonds was a total asshole to the media most of his career and Roger Clemons wasn't all that great either.  I say put all of the suspected/confirmed steroid users in this discussion in the Hall states or none at all.

[NWI_Irish96]

David Ortiz get into the baseball HOF on the first ballot but all the other steroid cheats are shut out. Apparently, in sports, cheating doesn't pay unless you play in New England.

Really glad I got to visit the HOF this summer while it was still clean.

He tested "positive" for an unknown or (as Rob Manfred) said, possibly an even legal over the counter med. Never tested positive in the real world and was never accused by anyone otherwise.

Stop crapping all over New England. I bet you get REAL friggin' silent when it comes to Peyton Manning's "wife" getting HGH mailed to her home.

Well, I'm a Bears fan and not a Colts fan, plus the NFL was testing for HGH at that time.

Then Jeff Blake is my follow-up answer if you consider Tom Brady a cheater. Beyond that, I imagine your concept of "cheating" comes with very little science to back it up.

I don't remember Jeff Blake playing for the Bears, though the Bears have had an awful lot of forgettable quarterbacks. Not sure what you consider to be science, but there were two video incidents and a ball deflation incident.

[Henry]

The biggest difference with David Ortiz was that he was a really likable media darling.  Bonds was a total asshole to the media most of his career and Roger Clemons wasn't all that great either.  I say put all of the suspected/confirmed steroid users in this discussion in the Hall states or none at all.

To say the least, I'm glad Bonds is not in the Hall of Fame. He and Clemens now join Shoeless Joe Jackson and Pete Rose as the greatest players to be banned from the sport's highest honor. However, it's sad (at least from a Cubs fan's point of view) that Sammy Sosa didn't get in either, considering that he has more 60-HR seasons than anyone else and is a beloved sports figure in Chicago.