The Great California Control City Debate

[Interstate Trav]

After reading some other threads, I have noticed a lot split off topic about California Control Cities.  Thought I would make a thread specifically for that.

For example, I-5 in Orange County going North Santa Ana seems to be replacing Los Angeles, and some agree while others dissagree.

My take is that Santa Ana Could Join, but considering San Diego uses Los Angeles, it should Say Santa Ana, Los Angeles.  I can see the Santa Ana Freeway Argument, but at the same time switching Control Cities can be confusing as well.

Another off hand would be "other Desert Cities"  I just notice that one gets a lot of notice.

[agentsteel53]

Santa Ana should be eliminated.

the word I'm looking for is "nuclear".

[kkt]

Do they really use "other desert cities"?  Is that marking the way to Baghdad, Casablanca, Kashgar, or Alice Springs?

[TheStranger]

Do they really use "other desert cities"?

Yes, that is indeed on signage on I-10 East:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/417671_10100916402608653_438420241_n.jpg

[Zmapper]

I guess those other cities are unmentionable.   

[kkt]

Do they really use "other desert cities"?

Yes, that is indeed on signage on I-10 East:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/417671_10100916402608653_438420241_n.jpg

Amazing, and not in a good way.  Thanks for the link.

[blawp]

I like Artesia as a control city at the 91/5 interchange.

[roadman65]

We have the same issue in Florida for I-95 and I-10.   Miami is used from just south of Jacksonville and then soon as you cross the Indian River County Line it changes to West Palm Beach still hundreds of miles away to Miami. 

On I-10 you have Lake City used EB  starting at Tallahassee and then it mysteriously changes to Jacksonville somewhere around Greenville, too soon before Lake City.

This is not uncommon among highways.  Heck look at I-95 between Fayetteville and Rocky Mount switching many times and since I-40 has been completed to Wilmington from Raliegh, Benson has been added to the mix in places there as well.

[Interstate Trav]

Do they really use "other desert cities"?  Is that marking the way to Baghdad, Casablanca, Kashgar, or Alice Springs?

I actually live about 20 minutes from the "other Desert Cities" sign and yes it does.  I heard it was put in place for all the Coachella Valley Cities, plus for cities along old US 99.  Others say it is just to omit Phoenix.

Also they use "Beach Cities" on 91 west. 

[Takumi]

The non-capitalized "other" makes it even worse IMO.

[Occidental Tourist]

Also they use "Beach Cities" on 91 west. 

Yes, because as we all know, the beaches in Southern California can only be reached from the 91.

[Quillz]

How about CA-99 still using Los Angeles as a control city and US-395 using San Diego as a control city despite the fact neither route reaches said cities? (Even though they did historically.)

I've also always found that I-405 being called the "San Diego Freeway" was a bit misleading.

[TheStranger]

How about CA-99 still using Los Angeles as a control city and US-395 using San Diego as a control city despite the fact neither route reaches said cities? (Even though they did historically.)

I've also always found that I-405 being called the "San Diego Freeway" was a bit misleading.

In the case of the former...it's only a one-number switch now for both of those (99 to 5, 395 to 15).  Not as egregious as, say, Route 120 in Manteca being signed westbound for "San Francisco" (requiring 4 number switches - 120 to 5, 5 to 205, 205 to 580, 580 to 80).

In the latter, the idea I think is that 405 is a bypass route of Los Angeles and Santa Ana, so travelers from up north would take 405 if they were going to San Diego and did not want to pass through LA.

[DTComposer]

How about CA-99 still using Los Angeles as a control city and US-395 using San Diego as a control city despite the fact neither route reaches said cities? (Even though they did historically.)

I've also always found that I-405 being called the "San Diego Freeway" was a bit misleading.

In the case of the former...it's only a one-number switch now for both of those (99 to 5, 395 to 15).  Not as egregious as, say, Route 120 in Manteca being signed westbound for "San Francisco" (requiring 4 number switches - 120 to 5, 5 to 205, 205 to 580, 580 to 80).

In the latter, the idea I think is that 405 is a bypass route of Los Angeles and Santa Ana, so travelers from up north would take 405 if they were going to San Diego and did not want to pass through LA.

So if the control city for CA-99 is not Los Angeles, what is it? Wheeler Ridge? Grapevine? Of course it makes sense for those cities to remain even though the numbers change, because the majority of people on the route are heading to those cities, or at least towards those metropolitan areas.

An alternative might be what they do in the UK - put cities not on the route in parentheses:

CA-99
Bakersfield
(Los Angeles)

[Occidental Tourist]

How about CA-99 still using Los Angeles as a control city and US-395 using San Diego as a control city despite the fact neither route reaches said cities? (Even though they did historically.)

I've also always found that I-405 being called the "San Diego Freeway" was a bit misleading.

In the case of the former...it's only a one-number switch now for both of those (99 to 5, 395 to 15).  Not as egregious as, say, Route 120 in Manteca being signed westbound for "San Francisco" (requiring 4 number switches - 120 to 5, 5 to 205, 205 to 580, 580 to 80).

In the latter, the idea I think is that 405 is a bypass route of Los Angeles and Santa Ana, so travelers from up north would take 405 if they were going to San Diego and did not want to pass through LA.

So if the control city for CA-99 is not Los Angeles, what is it? Wheeler Ridge? Grapevine? Of course it makes sense for those cities to remain even though the numbers change, because the majority of people on the route are heading to those cities, or at least towards those metropolitan areas.

An alternative might be what they do in the UK - put cities not on the route in parentheses:

CA-99
Bakersfield
(Los Angeles)

Los Angeles should be the control city south of Bakersfield.  N to S from Sacramento: Stockton, Modesto, Fresno, Bakersfield, Los Angeles.

[Quillz]

Perhaps control cities not directly served by the highway could be prefixed with "TO." CA-99, for example, could have its southern control city as "TO Los Angeles." Of course, it's probably making a mountain out of a molehill.

[Interstate Trav]

Perhaps control cities not directly served by the highway could be prefixed with "TO." CA-99, for example, could have its southern control city as "TO Los Angeles." Of course, it's probably making a mountain out of a molehill.

I think it would be making a Mountain out of a Mole Hill.  CA 14 South has Los Angeles as a Control City.  I'm guessing dating back to US 6.  It's just the main major city your headed towards. 

Even in Las Vegas I-15 South is Signed as Los Angeles even though I-15 doesn't go to Los Angeles.  Probably dating back to US 91, but also to serve tourist traffic I presume. 

Even on CA 86 North Los Angeles is listed, also in San Diego on I-805 North Los Angeles is listed as well. 

[Interstate Trav]

After reading some posts I wonder if indirect Control Cities listed are something most people are not fans of.

For Example,

Los Angeles

CA 99 to I-5
CA 14 to I-5
CA 86 to I-10
I-15 to I-10 or I-15 to CA 210 to I-605 to I-10

San Diego

US 395 to I-15
CA 74 to CA 371 to CA 79 to I-15

[roadman65]

After reading some posts I wonder if indirect Control Cities listed are something most people are not fans of.

For Example,

Los Angeles

CA 99 to I-5
CA 14 to I-5
CA 86 to I-10
I-15 to I-10 or I-15 to CA 210 to I-605 to I-10

San Diego

US 395 to I-15
CA 74 to CA 371 to CA 79 to I-15

Years ago, the old US routes that preceded the interstates did actually go the city mentioned in some cases.  Los Angeles is used on I-40 cause US 66 went there in the day.  AZDOT confirmed it in an actual email sent to me years ago. I assume Caltrans is using the same principle on their signs.

San Diego is used on US 395 cause it originally went there before I-15.

Its not so bad when you have one road leading to another, but when you have to take multiple routes it could raise some contraversy in some.

[TheStranger]

After reading some posts I wonder if indirect Control Cities listed are something most people are not fans of.

For Example,

Los Angeles

CA 99 to I-5
CA 14 to I-5
CA 86 to I-10
I-15 to I-10 or I-15 to CA 210 to I-605 to I-10

San Diego

US 395 to I-15
CA 74 to CA 371 to CA 79 to I-15

Years ago, the old US routes that preceded the interstates did actually go the city mentioned in some cases.  Los Angeles is used on I-40 cause US 66 went there in the day.  AZDOT confirmed it in an actual email sent to me years ago. I assume Caltrans is using the same principle on their signs.

San Diego is used on US 395 cause it originally went there before I-15.

To add to that, Route 14 is the former US 6 (which did go to downtown LA) and before that, the 1934-era Route 7 (which went to LAX).

Route 74 is signed for San Diego?  That one is as odd as Route 120 being signed for San Francisco.

I think a one-switch indirect is fine, i.e. the I-5 northbound control city of Sacramento being used from 101/170 (Hollywood Freeway) north and 405 north. 

[JustDrive]

How about CA-99 still using Los Angeles as a control city and US-395 using San Diego as a control city despite the fact neither route reaches said cities? (Even though they did historically.)

I've also always found that I-405 being called the "San Diego Freeway" was a bit misleading.

What about 580 EB at 205?  Should it say "Westley"?  Or just TO I-5?

[TheStranger]

How about CA-99 still using Los Angeles as a control city and US-395 using San Diego as a control city despite the fact neither route reaches said cities? (Even though they did historically.)

I've also always found that I-405 being called the "San Diego Freeway" was a bit misleading.

What about 580 EB at 205?  Should it say "Westley"?  Or just TO I-5?

I think the usage of "Los Angeles" is an artifact of when that route was planned as I-5W (so a bit understandable)...

but Fresno is the more intriguing choice.  Wouldn't 205-5-120 to 99 south be the best all-freeway route to get to Fresno?  Any other route would involve a surface road, i.e. 580-5-152-99, or 580-5-J1-180.

[JustDrive]

True, but one thing I never got was why L.A. was not signed on 580 until the 205 split.  The only other mention of L.A. in the Bay Area (aside from 101 south of 880) was on the EB Bay Bridge right before the Maze.  Otherwise, all you see is "Hayward" and "Stockton."  Even Fresno isn't mentioned until Livermore.

[DTComposer]

but Fresno is the more intriguing choice.  Wouldn't 205-5-120 to 99 south be the best all-freeway route to get to Fresno?  Any other route would involve a surface road, i.e. 580-5-152-99, or 580-5-J1-180.

My experience has been that, even though 152 to 99 is only expressway, it's still preferable to 120 to 99 - you avoid the traffic through Manteca/Modesto/Turlock/Merced. Once the 152 bypass of Los Banos is built it will be even faster.

Ultimately, isn't the point of control cities to guide the majority of non-local travelers to where they are headed? If the majority of out-of-towners on CA-99 south are ultimately headed to Los Angeles, why shouldn't it be a control city?

Of course, I've always supported two control cities - one immediate, one distant, so I-5 northbound would be something like:

Chula Vista/San Diego
Downtown San Diego
Oceanside/Los Angeles
Santa Ana/Los Angeles
Los Angeles
Santa Clarita/Sacramento
Bakersfield (why not?) or San Francisco/Sacramento
San Francisco/Sacramento
Stockton/Sacramento
Sacramento
Woodland/Redding
Redding/Portland
etc.

Much the same way US-101 is signed, with Los Angeles or San Francisco paired with an intermediate destination (San Jose, Salinas, San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara, Ventura).

[bulkyorled]

A couple I agree with here, swapping Sacramento with Bakersfield or Santa Ana with Los Angeles.
Or they could even sign Simi Valley/San Fernando for the 118 which I think is only signed once as Simi, North 5 to West 118 is the only one I can recall thats even signed.