The Great California Control City Debate

[Alps]

To me I-80 East should have Reno,NV and Hackensack,NJ this will help long distance drivers from the SF Bay Area to show that I-80 East is the Main Route to Bergen County,NJ and Monroe County,PA

First of all, that is Fictional, so please limit your discussion to Fictional Highways in this forum.
Second of all, this is the 15th time you've posted that. Enough. We heard you.

[LA_MetroMan]

I like Artesia as a control city at the 91/5 interchange.

So does the Greater Metropolitan Artesia area.

[LA_MetroMan]

Do they really use "other desert cities"?  Is that marking the way to Baghdad, Casablanca, Kashgar, or Alice Springs?

I actually live about 20 minutes from the "other Desert Cities" sign and yes it does.  I heard it was put in place for all the Coachella Valley Cities, plus for cities along old US 99.  Others say it is just to omit Phoenix.

Also they use "Beach Cities" on 91 west.

Coachella Valley Cities would be better, I believe. I wonder if Anza would be considered one of those ?

[agentsteel53]

Coachella Valley Cities

I don't think that would look right on a sign.  I'd rather even have Blythe, if CA is so xenophobic that they will not acknowledge the existence of Phoenix.

the great Phoenix growth was well underway by the 50s (1950 census: ~100,000; 1960 census: ~400,000) so even at that point there was no real reason to omit it as a control city on a new highway with transcontinental intent.  I can understand 30s signs on US-60/70 featuring Blythe, but by the 1950s they should have switched over.

[Interstate Trav]

I think the other Desert Cities sign looks fine.  Given how much more population you hit before Indio, listing a City in the next state that is about 280 miles away doesn't seem to be that important.  Phoenix takes over once you reach Indio.

Other Desert Cities includes Indio, Coachella, Salton Sea, El Centro, Brawley, maybe even Yuma, not to mention all the Coachella Valley Cities, and the Small towns along Ca 62.  So in a way it fits, and as most seem to not like it, it does get a lot of attention.  So I think it should stay.

[TheStranger]

I think the other Desert Cities sign looks fine.  Given how much more population you hit before Indio, listing a City in the next state that is about 280 miles away doesn't seem to be that important.  Phoenix takes over once you reach Indio.

Other Desert Cities includes Indio, Coachella, Salton Sea, El Centro, Brawley, maybe even Yuma, not to mention all the Coachella Valley Cities, and the Small towns along Ca 62.  So in a way it fits, and as most seem to not like it, it does get a lot of attention.  So I think it should stay.

280 miles though...that's not particularly long distance for a control city in California, at least the in-state ones.

Los Angeles gets signed as a control city a good 400 or so miles north along US 101 southbound, and 385 miles north in the Natomas district of Sacramento.

[nexus73]

Phoenix should be the control city once one gets to San Bernardino at the I-10/I-215 interchange.  The "desert cities" are just small time affairs, not major metro areas.  Going N/S on 101, I-5 and 99, CalTrans uses major metro areas and sometimes a secondary city.  That works out nicely in my eyes so that pattern is what makes sense to me for I-10.  To cover the lesser cities, CalTrans uses mileage signs with three cities listed and the control city is the bottom one.  That leaves two slots open.

Rick 

[agentsteel53]

280 miles though...that's not particularly long distance for a control city in California, at least the in-state ones.

I believe it is at Redding where Portland becomes the control city on I-5 north.  118 miles to the state line, and another ~300 to Portland after that. 

[J N Winkler]

Some additional observations about "other Desert Cities":

*  I believe it was originally Robert Cruickshank (in MTR) who justified it on the basis that it was a reference to the other Coachella Valley cities besides Indio.  The Coachella Valley is the same basin that includes the Salton Sea and the Coachella Valley cities, which are strung along SR 86S south of its interchange with I-10, include Indio, Coachella, Thermal, and Mecca.  The "Indio/other Desert Cities" legend is used as a pull-through message on a full-width gantry which contains the eastbound exit direction sign for SR 111, signed for Palm Springs.  Beyond Palm Springs, SR 111 follows an alignment parallel to I-10 to Indio and parallel to SR 86S south of Indio, so it is really an alternative route to the Coachella Valley cities--just not the preferred one for long-distance travel because it is a surface arterial, not a freeway like I-10 and SR 86S.

*  Per the AASHTO control cities list, Indio flips over to Blythe (not Phoenix) as the next control city on eastbound I-10.  This is another argument against "other Desert Cities" being a reference to Phoenix.  The problem, however, is that the changeover is obscured by the fact that after Indio overhead assemblies with pull-through signs are no longer reasonably warranted.  In combination with the fact that "other Desert Cities" is one of the pull-through destinations at an exit which also leads to the Coachella Valley cities, this makes it difficult to argue that it cannot reasonably be interpreted as a slighting reference to Phoenix.

*  "Other Desert Cities" is now famous in its own right.  A Google Images search for {I-10 other Desert Cities} turns up a play (not sure whether it had a Broadway run) among the first search results, well ahead of any pictures of the actual "other Desert Cities" pull-through signs.  This means that, whatever objections may be made to "other Desert Cities" on the basis that it fails clearly to differentiate the Coachella Valley cities from major cities further east on I-10 like Phoenix, taking it off the signs would amount to destruction of a cultural property.

*  Ironically enough, the same Google search turns up the following spoof sign ahead of all but one photo of one of the actual "other Desert Cities" signs.  The city "dissed" in this case is Denver:

[Interstate Trav]

Phoenix should be the control city once one gets to San Bernardino at the I-10/I-215 interchange.  The "desert cities" are just small time affairs, not major metro areas.  Going N/S on 101, I-5 and 99, CalTrans uses major metro areas and sometimes a secondary city.  That works out nicely in my eyes so that pattern is what makes sense to me for I-10.  To cover the lesser cities, CalTrans uses mileage signs with three cities listed and the control city is the bottom one.  That leaves two slots open.

Rick 

Actually in reference to north and south routes, I-15 lists Barstow as a Control point before changing to Las Vegas, which after the Inland empire is the next major City, as Barstow is not a major city.  But also after Baker Salt Lake City is listed with Las Vegas at about 500 miles away.

I understand your point, given how much weekend traffic is headed to the Coachella Valley, Palm Springs, and other Desert Resorts, I don't think it is wrong to not list Phoenix until Indio. 

I just think given that I-10 used to be joined with US 99 and they spilt in Indio and El Centro, and points along I-8 and along route 86 are important too, that other desert cities was a way of including them all.  Sort of how some cites just list "suburbs" when heading out of town. 

[Interstate Trav]

Some additional observations about "other Desert Cities":

*  I believe it was originally Robert Cruickshank (in MTR) who justified it on the basis that it was a reference to the other Coachella Valley cities besides Indio.  The Coachella Valley is the same basin that includes the Salton Sea and the Coachella Valley cities, which are strung along SR 86S south of its interchange with I-10, include Indio, Coachella, Thermal, and Mecca.  The "Indio/other Desert Cities" legend is used as a pull-through message on a full-width gantry which contains the eastbound exit direction sign for SR 111, signed for Palm Springs.  Beyond Palm Springs, SR 111 follows an alignment parallel to I-10 to Indio and parallel to SR 86S south of Indio, so it is really an alternative route to the Coachella Valley cities--just not the preferred one for long-distance travel because it is a surface arterial, not a freeway like I-10 and SR 86S.

*  Per the AASHTO control cities list, Indio flips over to Blythe (not Phoenix) as the next control city on eastbound I-10.  This is another argument against "other Desert Cities" being a reference to Phoenix.  The problem, however, is that the changeover is obscured by the fact that after Indio overhead assemblies with pull-through signs are no longer reasonably warranted.  In combination with the fact that "other Desert Cities" is one of the pull-through destinations at an exit which also leads to the Coachella Valley cities, this makes it difficult to argue that it cannot reasonably be interpreted as a slighting reference to Phoenix.

*  "Other Desert Cities" is now famous in its own right.  A Google Images search for {I-10 other Desert Cities} turns up a play (not sure whether it had a Broadway run) among the first search results, well ahead of any pictures of the actual "other Desert Cities" pull-through signs.  This means that, whatever objections may be made to "other Desert Cities" on the basis that it fails clearly to differentiate the Coachella Valley cities from major cities further east on I-10 like Phoenix, taking it off the signs would amount to destruction of a cultural property.

*  Ironically enough, the same Google search turns up the following spoof sign ahead of all but one photo of one of the actual "other Desert Cities" signs.  The city "dissed" in this case is Denver:

Thanks for the info, i didn't know that,that is the first in depth explanation I ever heard about that sign.  I see the point there, that all the Coachella Valley Traffic isn't just taking 111, a lot of it stays on I-10.
Similiar how on I-15 in Las Vegas, there used to be an overhead sign at the I-215 jct that said Las Vegas Blvd (the strip) next 4 exits.

[andy3175]

280 miles though...that's not particularly long distance for a control city in California, at least the in-state ones.

I believe it is at Redding where Portland becomes the control city on I-5 north.  118 miles to the state line, and another ~300 to Portland after that. 

The first time Portland is mentioned on a mileage sign along I-5 northbound is between Stockton and Sacramento (see https://www.aaroads.com/california/images005/i-005_nb_exit_487_02.jpg ... this sign is still in place as of Nov 2012). However, Portland does not appear on overhead signs or guide signs on intersecting roads until Redding.

Regards,
Andy

[Interstate Trav]

280 miles though...that's not particularly long distance for a control city in California, at least the in-state ones.

I believe it is at Redding where Portland becomes the control city on I-5 north.  118 miles to the state line, and another ~300 to Portland after that. 

The first time Portland is mentioned on a mileage sign along I-5 northbound is between Stockton and Sacramento (see https://www.aaroads.com/california/images005/i-005_nb_exit_487_02.jpg ... this sign is still in place as of Nov 2012). However, Portland does not appear on overhead signs or guide signs on intersecting roads until Redding.

Regards,
Andy

Portland does appear on overhead signs in Redding? 
I looked through the pictures before and any overhead signs on aaroads only show the signs saying I-5 North or thru Traffic.