Pennsylvania

[707]

I did some research on US 219 from Meyersville and Somerset. Looks like construction is winding down to a close and the US 219 freeway will be opened soon. Interesting considering it was a freeway everyone thought would be dead after no work had been done on it for several years. That and there's talks of extending the freeway to I-68 finally by planners from both Pennsylvania and Maryland.

https://www.wearecentralpa.com/news/route-219-extension-could-drive-local-economy/1132686705
https://www.penndot.gov/RegionalOffices/district-9/ConstructionsProjectsAndRoadwork/Pages/Route-219-Somerset-to-Meyersdale.aspx
http://www.us219md-pa.com/

[roadman65]

I was noticing the four digit reference routes has a sequence.   There are some numbers just reserved for interchanges and rest areas alone.  Then some series are for defunct route numbers while some are numbered due to direction like former SR 2026 in Reading (now PA 12) which is in that range because of regional importance and the fact it went from SW to NE.

[Bitmapped]

I was noticing the four digit reference routes has a sequence.   There are some numbers just reserved for interchanges and rest areas alone.  Then some series are for defunct route numbers while some are numbered due to direction like former SR 2026 in Reading (now PA 12) which is in that range because of regional importance and the fact it went from SW to NE.

The numbering pattern is discussed on Wikipedia at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_State_Route_System#Location_Referencing_System. SRs 1001-4999 are numbered by which quadrant of the county they are in (generally).

[Roadsguy]

I was noticing the four digit reference routes has a sequence.   There are some numbers just reserved for interchanges and rest areas alone.  Then some series are for defunct route numbers while some are numbered due to direction like former SR 2026 in Reading (now PA 12) which is in that range because of regional importance and the fact it went from SW to NE.

The numbering pattern is discussed on Wikipedia at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_State_Route_System#Location_Referencing_System. SRs 1001-4999 are numbered by which quadrant of the county they are in (generally).

Mostly defined by select N-S and E-W routes through the middle of the county, if any exist, and not hard quadrant boundaries.

[roadman65]

I was noticing the four digit reference routes has a sequence.   There are some numbers just reserved for interchanges and rest areas alone.  Then some series are for defunct route numbers while some are numbered due to direction like former SR 2026 in Reading (now PA 12) which is in that range because of regional importance and the fact it went from SW to NE.

The numbering pattern is discussed on Wikipedia at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_State_Route_System#Location_Referencing_System. SRs 1001-4999 are numbered by which quadrant of the county they are in (generally).

Mostly defined by select N-S and E-W routes through the middle of the county, if any exist, and not hard quadrant boundaries.

Even rest areas and interchanges get their own numbers.  Very interesting way of doing things.

[Nanis]

I was noticing the four digit reference routes has a sequence.   There are some numbers just reserved for interchanges and rest areas alone.  Then some series are for defunct route numbers while some are numbered due to direction like former SR 2026 in Reading (now PA 12) which is in that range because of regional importance and the fact it went from SW to NE.

The numbering pattern is discussed on Wikipedia at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_State_Route_System#Location_Referencing_System. SRs 1001-4999 are numbered by which quadrant of the county they are in (generally).

I don get why PA still has that system for roads. Its just confusing.

[tckma]

I have noticed that sometime within the past few weeks, PennDOT has installed vertical, white on black identifier signs on VMS assemblies.  These show the route number, direction of travel, and a sequential number (for example, 422E02, 76W01, 309N06).  No VMS signs on the PA Turnpike were tagged.

Is this VMS tagging going on throughout the state, or only in the Philadelphia / Montgomery County area?

[tckma]

US 422 in Pennsylvania.  Two sections.  The eastern section, according to Wikipedia, is 88 miles long.  The western section does not have a per-state mileage listed in the article, but is 183 miles long in total between PA and Ohio.

I've seen mileposts on the eastern section as high as 192 near King of Prussia.  What is this mileage based on?  Is it the total mileage of the two segments in PA?  The mileage in PA if the two segments were connected?  What?

It can't be eastern segment mileage alone because the milepost numbers are too high.  I have (sort of) the same pedantic, roadgeeky objection to this as I do to the mileposts on the I-276 segment of the PA Turnpike starting at 326 where I-76 splits off the Turnpike to go to Philly and NJ.

[empirestate]

I was noticing the four digit reference routes has a sequence.   There are some numbers just reserved for interchanges and rest areas alone.  Then some series are for defunct route numbers while some are numbered due to direction like former SR 2026 in Reading (now PA 12) which is in that range because of regional importance and the fact it went from SW to NE.

The numbering pattern is discussed on Wikipedia at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_State_Route_System#Location_Referencing_System. SRs 1001-4999 are numbered by which quadrant of the county they are in (generally).

I don get why PA still has that system for roads. Its just confusing.

What about it do you find confusing? Perhaps we can help clear it up.

[ipeters61]

It can't be eastern segment mileage alone because the milepost numbers are too high.  I have (sort of) the same pedantic, roadgeeky objection to this as I do to the mileposts on the I-276 segment of the PA Turnpike starting at 326 where I-76 splits off the Turnpike to go to Philly and NJ.

I feel like in the case of I-276's mileposts, that's more about the "Pennsylvania Turnpike" designation (let's give it a silly number like 7676) than the interstate designation.  In other words, nobody is following "76/276," they're just following the "Pennsylvania Turnpike."  I would also guess it follows from the logic of why the Northeast Extension originally started its exit numbering at 31, to attempt to alleviate confusion within the system, especially among those who are using tickets.

Then again, we could just talk about how I-476 South is "Exit 20" off I-276 (of course because it's Exit 20 off the Northeast Extension/I-476).

[akotchi]

I have noticed that sometime within the past few weeks, PennDOT has installed vertical, white on black identifier signs on VMS assemblies.  These show the route number, direction of travel, and a sequential number (for example, 422E02, 76W01, 309N06).  No VMS signs on the PA Turnpike were tagged.

Is this VMS tagging going on throughout the state, or only in the Philadelphia / Montgomery County area?

Not sure the answer to the question, but the median VMS locations (two signs) on the Delaware Expressway between PA 332 and U.S. 1, though signing has changed the roadway to I-295, are identified by I-95 codes . . . and I think the identification signs were installed after the route conversion.

[jeffandnicole]

I have noticed that sometime within the past few weeks, PennDOT has installed vertical, white on black identifier signs on VMS assemblies.  These show the route number, direction of travel, and a sequential number (for example, 422E02, 76W01, 309N06).  No VMS signs on the PA Turnpike were tagged.

Is this VMS tagging going on throughout the state, or only in the Philadelphia / Montgomery County area?

Not sure the answer to the question, but the median VMS locations (two signs) on the Delaware Expressway between PA 332 and U.S. 1, though signing has changed the roadway to I-295, are identified by I-95 codes . . . and I think the identification signs were installed after the route conversion.

Another instance of 2 sections of a DOT not knowing what the other is doing.

On the ramp from NJ 29 South to I-295 South (South of Trenton, since 29 South to 295 South also occurs north of Trenton now), the exit number changed from 60A to 1A.  However, a new construction sign went up in the past week or so stating "On or About (no date shown), Exit 60A will be closed".  The sign sits nearly directly across from the 'Exit 1A' sign.  The construction contract for this closure (a repaving project) was put out to bid long after the Exit number changing project was going on.   No reason why there shouldn't have been even a cursory review of this to realize that 60A no longer exists here.

[tckma]

Then again, we could just talk about how I-476 South is "Exit 20" off I-276 (of course because it's Exit 20 off the Northeast Extension/I-476).

That confused the &^@# out of me the first time I saw it!  It took me close to a week of daily commutes both directions between Exit 339 and Exit 326 to figure it out.

[tckma]

I have noticed that sometime within the past few weeks, PennDOT has installed vertical, white on black identifier signs on VMS assemblies.  These show the route number, direction of travel, and a sequential number (for example, 422E02, 76W01, 309N06).  No VMS signs on the PA Turnpike were tagged.

Is this VMS tagging going on throughout the state, or only in the Philadelphia / Montgomery County area?

Not sure the answer to the question, but the median VMS locations (two signs) on the Delaware Expressway between PA 332 and U.S. 1, though signing has changed the roadway to I-295, are identified by I-95 codes . . . and I think the identification signs were installed after the route conversion.

Saying "I-95" versus "the Delaware Expressway" would have helped me figure out just where the heck you were talking about without going to Google Maps, to be honest.  Took me a sec to realize why they extended the I-295 designation from NJ into PA too.  "Oh yeaaaaaaah 95's gonna go onto the PA Turnpike eventually to fix that weird problem created when they cancelled construction of I-95 through NJ."

I can tell you the identification signs on PA-309, US-422, and the section of I-76 coming off the Turnpike at Exit 326 headed toward Philly were installed sometime in the past month.  I started a job in King of Prussia the last week of June, and I've only been annoying Philadelphia-area drivers with my fine Maryland- and Massachusetts- honed driving skills for about a month; previously I stayed in MD all the time.  I swear those signs weren't there when I started this job and then suddenly they were.

[Roadsguy]

Then again, we could just talk about how I-476 South is "Exit 20" off I-276 (of course because it's Exit 20 off the Northeast Extension/I-476).

That confused the &^@# out of me the first time I saw it!  It took me close to a week of daily commutes both directions between Exit 339 and Exit 326 to figure it out.

I sure hope that when they eventually go AET and ditch the ticket system, which is what causes this oddity, that they rationalize the exit numbers at Mid-County, making the Turnpike itself Exit 20 for I-476, and making Exit 334 for the mainline at I-476. That would probably make too much sense, though...

[ipeters61]

Saying "I-95" versus "the Delaware Expressway" would have helped me figure out just where the heck you were talking about without going to Google Maps, to be honest.

Common vernacular on the PA side of Philly is to refer to the expressways by their names/nicknames (Delaware Expressway (95), Schuylkill Expressway (76), PA Turnpike (276), Blue Route (476), Dekalb Pike (202)), just the way things are around there.  It even applies in northeast PA.  My grandparents always talk about the Cross Valley Expressway, not 309.

[tckma]

Saying "I-95" versus "the Delaware Expressway" would have helped me figure out just where the heck you were talking about without going to Google Maps, to be honest.

Common vernacular on the PA side of Philly is to refer to the expressways by their names/nicknames (Delaware Expressway (95), Schuylkill Expressway (76), PA Turnpike (276), Blue Route (476), Dekalb Pike (202)), just the way things are around there.  It even applies in northeast PA.  My grandparents always talk about the Cross Valley Expressway, not 309.

I heard "Blue Route" on the local news at my hotel last week, and I thought they were referring to some Blue Detour (a la PA's colored detours, which I've always liked).  Isn't 476 the Northeast Extension though?

I was driving around fairly randomly the other night (delivering for Uber Eats, as I do for a side job in this area at night), and I heard either Waze or the Uber GPS (I use them both when delivering, depending on how I feel) say something about "Skoo Kill" but display "Schuylkill."  How the F&%$ do you get THAT pronunciation from THOSE letters in THAT order?

Then again, I lived in Massachusetts for 8 years, so I have no right to criticize odd pronunciations of place names.

[ekt8750]

I heard "Blue Route" on the local news at my hotel last week, and I thought they were referring to some Blue Detour (a la PA's colored detours, which I've always liked).  Isn't 476 the Northeast Extension though?

North of Plymouth Meeting it is. South of it, it's the "Blue Route".

I was driving around fairly randomly the other night (delivering for Uber Eats, as I do for a side job in this area at night), and I heard either Waze or the Uber GPS (I use them both when delivering, depending on how I feel) say something about "Skoo Kill" but display "Schuylkill."  How the F&%$ do you get THAT pronunciation from THOSE letters in THAT order?

Then again, I lived in Massachusetts for 8 years, so I have no right to criticize odd pronunciations of place names.

It's a Dutch word lol.

[jeffandnicole]

Saying "I-95" versus "the Delaware Expressway" would have helped me figure out just where the heck you were talking about without going to Google Maps, to be honest.

Common vernacular on the PA side of Philly is to refer to the expressways by their names/nicknames (Delaware Expressway (95), Schuylkill Expressway (76), PA Turnpike (276), Blue Route (476), Dekalb Pike (202)), just the way things are around there.  It even applies in northeast PA.  My grandparents always talk about the Cross Valley Expressway, not 309.

I heard "Blue Route" on the local news at my hotel last week, and I thought they were referring to some Blue Detour (a la PA's colored detours, which I've always liked).  Isn't 476 the Northeast Extension though?

I was driving around fairly randomly the other night (delivering for Uber Eats, as I do for a side job in this area at night), and I heard either Waze or the Uber GPS (I use them both when delivering, depending on how I feel) say something about "Skoo Kill" but display "Schuylkill."  How the F&%$ do you get THAT pronunciation from THOSE letters in THAT order?

Then again, I lived in Massachusetts for 8 years, so I have no right to criticize odd pronunciations of place names.

There's a lot of old Indian names in the area, so you get odd spellings.  Some have been 'modernized' thru the years, but others, like the Schuylkill, live on.  In NJ, the township I grew up in was Mantua, pronounced Man-choo-uh.  You know you're not dealing with a local when they try saying it as Mant-u-a.

Back to the highways: On traffic reports, you'll often hear Blue Route & Northeast Extension; rarely will you hear "476", although I think they may mention it when referring to the section between 76 & 276 (or, for locals, between the Schuylkill & Northeast Extension).

I-76 gets no love around here whatsoever.  You'll always hear the Schuylkill or Schuylkill Expressway, rarely 76.  You'll always hear the PA Turnpike; not 76 (or 276).  Sometimes they say the Walt Whitman Expressway rather than I-76 there too.  When you get into NJ, "Route 42" is spoken rather than I-76.  I-676 in Philly is usually referred to as the Vine Street Expressway, which is rarely much of an express route as it's often jammed "River-to-River". They do say 676 though, at least for NJ's portion - as in "676 is slow approaching Route 42" (which is really I-76).  Long-time Philly traffic reporters (Bob Kelly) will sometimes use "North-South Freeway" instead of saying Route 42 though. 

Delaware Expressway is rarely used on traffic reports; usually they just say 95.

And as for your confusion, with the 'Blue Detour' (and other color) signs: Never once have I ever seen them mentioned on traffic reports or newspapers. They are a complete waste of money.

[ipeters61]

I was driving around fairly randomly the other night (delivering for Uber Eats, as I do for a side job in this area at night), and I heard either Waze or the Uber GPS (I use them both when delivering, depending on how I feel) say something about "Skoo Kill" but display "Schuylkill."  How the F&%$ do you get THAT pronunciation from THOSE letters in THAT order?

I had a friend in undergrad whose last name was Henault and pronounced "Eno."

And as for your confusion, with the 'Blue Detour' (and other color) signs: Never once have I ever seen them mentioned on traffic reports or newspapers. They are a complete waste of money.

The portions of my childhood not spent in CT were spent in PA and it took me until maybe my 20s to finally understand what the "Blue Detour," "Orange Detour," etc. actually were referring to.

[Roadgeek Adam]

There's a lot of old Indian names in the area, so you get odd spellings.  Some have been 'modernized' thru the years, but others, like the Schuylkill, live on.  In NJ, the township I grew up in was Mantua, pronounced Man-choo-uh.  You know you're not dealing with a local when they try saying it as Mant-u-a.

With respect, Mantua, Ohio is pronounced Mant-away. I can understand confusion.

[odditude]

There's a lot of old Indian names in the area, so you get odd spellings.  Some have been 'modernized' thru the years, but others, like the Schuylkill, live on.  In NJ, the township I grew up in was Mantua, pronounced Man-choo-uh.  You know you're not dealing with a local when they try saying it as Mant-u-a.

With respect, Mantua, Ohio is pronounced Mant-away. I can understand confusion.

Similarly, locals will get cranky if you mispronounce Newark - which happens all the time as Newark, NJ (think "NEWerk" or "NOerk", but spoken like a single syllable) and Newark, DE (New-ARK) are in fairly close proximity.

[jeffandnicole]

There's a lot of old Indian names in the area, so you get odd spellings.  Some have been 'modernized' thru the years, but others, like the Schuylkill, live on.  In NJ, the township I grew up in was Mantua, pronounced Man-choo-uh.  You know you're not dealing with a local when they try saying it as Mant-u-a.

With respect, Mantua, Ohio is pronounced Mant-away. I can understand confusion.

Similarly, locals will get cranky if you mispronounce Newark - which happens all the time as Newark, NJ (think "NEWerk" or "NOerk", but spoken like a single syllable) and Newark, DE (New-ARK) are in fairly close proximity.

Ohio mis-pronuncees a lot of names! LOL

Personally, I hate Newark, NJ's pronunciation.  Just way too close to New York.

And try to specify Newark Penn Station and New York Penn Station, especially when the destination is Newark.  That almost always needs clarification!

[PHLBOS]

Then again, we could just talk about how I-476 South is "Exit 20" off I-276 (of course because it's Exit 20 off the Northeast Extension/I-476).

That confused the &^@# out of me the first time I saw it!  It took me close to a week of daily commutes both directions between Exit 339 and Exit 326 to figure it out.

I sure hope that when they eventually go AET and ditch the ticket system, which is what causes this oddity, that they rationalize the exit numbers at Mid-County, making the Turnpike itself Exit 20 for I-476, and making Exit 334 for the mainline at I-476. That would probably make too much sense, though...

True, but it's worth noting that Exit 20 off northbound 476 currently exists at the exit for Plymouth Road/Germantown Pike westbound.

Should those interchange numbers ever be rationalized; such would likely be...
For I-476 North:
Exit 20 A (current Exit 20) Germantown Pike westbound/Plymouth Rd. (signed as TO 276 WEST Harrisburg)
Exit 20 B (not currently numbered) I-276 East

For I-476 South:
Exit 20 B (not currently numbered) I-276 West
Exit 20 A (not currently numbered) I-276 East

For I-276 East:
Exit 334 (not currently numbered) I-476 North

For I-276 West:
Exit 334 A (current Exit 20) I-476 South
Exit 334 B (not currently numbered) I-476 North

[ipeters61]

Then again, we could just talk about how I-476 South is "Exit 20" off I-276 (of course because it's Exit 20 off the Northeast Extension/I-476).

That confused the &^@# out of me the first time I saw it!  It took me close to a week of daily commutes both directions between Exit 339 and Exit 326 to figure it out.

I sure hope that when they eventually go AET and ditch the ticket system, which is what causes this oddity, that they rationalize the exit numbers at Mid-County, making the Turnpike itself Exit 20 for I-476, and making Exit 334 for the mainline at I-476. That would probably make too much sense, though...

True, but it's worth noting that Exit 20 off northbound 476 currently exists at the exit for Plymouth Road/Germantown Pike westbound.

Well also consider that the PTC has jurisdiction over I-476 at the Mid-County Interchange and north (and PennDOT has jurisdiction south of the interchange), so two Exit 20s can exist because they are technically on different roads (the Northeast Extension and the Blue Route - despite both being signed as I-476).  Yeah, it's dumb, but technically feasible, in my opinion.