Pennsylvania

[jemacedo9]

From PennDOT on weekday upcoming closures along PA 23:  PECO to Close Route 23 (Valley Forge Road) Through November for Utility Improvement in Chester County

I had an issue like this affect me last year when I was attempting to clinch PA 372 on MLK Day (they still worked even on a holiday).  I took care of this though on my NJ/PA 73 Trip that was one year ago yesterday.

Where did you get the headline?  The article (dated 2/16/21) you linked says it won't be a full closure but an alternating traffic situation during gas main installation along that 1.1 mile stretch.  And I found no mention of anything November in the article.

PECO to Restrict Route 23 (Valley Forge Road) for Utility Improvement in Schuylkill Township, Chester County
02/16/2021

King of Prussia, PA — PECO Energy is planning a single lane closure with flagging on Route 23 (Valley Forge Road) between Moorehall Drive and Country Club Road in Schuylkill Township, Chester County, beginning Wednesday, February 17, for gas main installation, the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation (PennDOT) announced today. The lane closure will be in place weekdays from 9:00 AM to 3:00 PM through late-March.

ixnay

INTERESTING...I read this earlier today directly on the PennDOT site, and the work was starting with lane closures but then would be full weekday closures. through November.  The local township police department posted that version to their FB page.  What the release says now has changed to just state the single-lane through mid-March.

[TheGrassGuy]

Another railroad with an extra line: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.3760955,-77.8715013,3a,75y,337.22h,83.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-C9V3X2jqzAvulnsHacgyA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[VTGoose]

Another railroad with an extra line: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.3760955,-77.8715013,3a,75y,337.22h,83.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-C9V3X2jqzAvulnsHacgyA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Those are tracks of the East Broad Top Railroad (https://eastbroadtop.com), which ran from the connection with the Pennsylvania Railroad to Rockhill and beyond. It was a narrow gauge line that hauled coal, but at the connection there were dual gauge tracks, such as seen in this road crossing, to allow interchange of traffic. The line is now being restored to operate as a tourist line and to preserve the shop complex, which the previous owner did little to change from when the line was abandoned.

[TheGrassGuy]

Which sections of PA-32 were one-lane, as shown here?

[sbeaver44]

PennDot has released the 9 "Candidate"  bridges for tolling

As I expected, 83 over the Susquehanna is one of them.  4 of the 9 are on I-80.  I wonder if this will go to court again over the I-80 issue.

The list per https://www.penndot.gov/about-us/funding/Pages/Solutions.aspx includes

I-78: Lenhartsville
I-79: Bridgeville
I-80: Canoe Creek, North Fork, Nescopeck Creek, Lehigh River
I-81: Susquehanna River (at Great Bend near NY State Line)
I-83: Susquehanna River
I-95: Girard Point

[Great Lakes Roads]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SkRdqRv_WE

Here's a video on the introduction of the I-83 South Bridge Project in Harrisburg.

[sbeaver44]

Alright so what happens first:
1) Replacement 83 John Harris bridge begins construction
2) Mt Rose Ave (I-83 Exit 18) interchange construction project completed

[MASTERNC]

PennDot has released the 9 "Candidate"  bridges for tolling

As I expected, 83 over the Susquehanna is one of them.  4 of the 9 are on I-80.  I wonder if this will go to court again over the I-80 issue.

The list per https://www.penndot.gov/about-us/funding/Pages/Solutions.aspx includes

I-78: Lenhartsville
I-79: Bridgeville
I-80: Canoe Creek, North Fork, Nescopeck Creek, Lehigh River
I-81: Susquehanna River (at Great Bend near NY State Line)
I-83: Susquehanna River
I-95: Girard Point

The Bridgeville proposal is peculiar and is probably designed to catch all the commuter traffic.

I'm surprised the Mon River bridge on I-70 wasn't on the list.

[odditude]

PennDot has released the 9 "Candidate"  bridges for tolling

(snip)
I-95: Girard Point

something tells me there would be a significant increase in traffic on the Platt Bridge from commuters heading to Center City from the south (and vice versa).

[jemacedo9]

Which sections of PA-32 were one-lane, as shown here?

Just south of PA 611...by the Narrowsville Cliffs...that was damage due to flooding next to the canal.

[MASTERNC]

PennDot has released the 9 "Candidate"  bridges for tolling

(snip)
I-95: Girard Point

something tells me there would be a significant increase in traffic on the Platt Bridge from commuters heading to Center City from the south (and vice versa).

Yep, but I'm sure the city will love all the red light camera tickets from the left turn onto 26th Street

[ARMOURERERIC]

PennDot has released the 9 "Candidate"  bridges for tolling

As I expected, 83 over the Susquehanna is one of them.  4 of the 9 are on I-80.  I wonder if this will go to court again over the I-80 issue.

The list per https://www.penndot.gov/about-us/funding/Pages/Solutions.aspx includes

I-78: Lenhartsville
I-79: Bridgeville
I-80: Canoe Creek, North Fork, Nescopeck Creek, Lehigh River
I-81: Susquehanna River (at Great Bend near NY State Line)
I-83: Susquehanna River
I-95: Girard Point

The Bridgeville proposal is peculiar and is probably designed to catch all the commuter traffic.

I'm surprised the Mon River bridge on I-70 wasn't on the list.

If the Bridgeville toll was to fund an 8 laning of 79 from 70 to 376, it would be worth considering.

[MASTERNC]

PennDot has released the 9 "Candidate"  bridges for tolling

As I expected, 83 over the Susquehanna is one of them.  4 of the 9 are on I-80.  I wonder if this will go to court again over the I-80 issue.

The list per https://www.penndot.gov/about-us/funding/Pages/Solutions.aspx includes

I-78: Lenhartsville
I-79: Bridgeville
I-80: Canoe Creek, North Fork, Nescopeck Creek, Lehigh River
I-81: Susquehanna River (at Great Bend near NY State Line)
I-83: Susquehanna River
I-95: Girard Point

The Bridgeville proposal is peculiar and is probably designed to catch all the commuter traffic.

I'm surprised the Mon River bridge on I-70 wasn't on the list.

If the Bridgeville toll was to fund an 8 laning of 79 from 70 to 376, it would be worth considering.

Or at least six lanes for that entire stretch

[Alps]

PennDot has released the 9 "Candidate"  bridges for tolling

As I expected, 83 over the Susquehanna is one of them.  4 of the 9 are on I-80.  I wonder if this will go to court again over the I-80 issue.

The list per https://www.penndot.gov/about-us/funding/Pages/Solutions.aspx includes

I-78: Lenhartsville
I-79: Bridgeville
I-80: Canoe Creek, North Fork, Nescopeck Creek, Lehigh River
I-81: Susquehanna River (at Great Bend near NY State Line)
I-83: Susquehanna River
I-95: Girard Point

At least 3 of those bridges are not major bridges and I don't think this is gonna fly.

[rickmastfan67]

I-79: Bridgeville

Yeah, that one might not fly at all.

People will use PA-50 to bypass it for sure.

[Crown Victoria]

PennDot has released the 9 "Candidate"  bridges for tolling

As I expected, 83 over the Susquehanna is one of them.  4 of the 9 are on I-80.  I wonder if this will go to court again over the I-80 issue.

The list per https://www.penndot.gov/about-us/funding/Pages/Solutions.aspx includes

I-78: Lenhartsville
I-79: Bridgeville
I-80: Canoe Creek, North Fork, Nescopeck Creek, Lehigh River
I-81: Susquehanna River (at Great Bend near NY State Line)
I-83: Susquehanna River
I-95: Girard Point

The I-78 Lenhartsville Bridge seems a bit curious to me. That bridge isn't really a big deal (although the project is needed as currently one is required to stop on the onramp from PA 143 before entering I-78 eastbound), and the estimated project cost is only $50 million or so. I suspect the actual purpose here is to raise revenue for other I-78 projects, as is permitted once the actual bridge project the tolls are set up for is paid off.

That being said, I'm not opposed to bridge tolls where used appropriately. These tolls will capture revenue from out-of-state and electric vehicles that present funding (the gas tax) misses.

[PHLBOS]

PennDot has released the 9 "Candidate"  bridges for tolling

As I expected, 83 over the Susquehanna is one of them.  4 of the 9 are on I-80.  I wonder if this will go to court again over the I-80 issue.

The list per https://www.penndot.gov/about-us/funding/Pages/Solutions.aspx includes

I-78: Lenhartsville
I-79: Bridgeville
I-80: Canoe Creek, North Fork, Nescopeck Creek, Lehigh River
I-81: Susquehanna River (at Great Bend near NY State Line)
I-83: Susquehanna River
I-95: Girard Point

At least 3 of those bridges are not major bridges and I don't think this is gonna fly.

Given that all of the above are Interstates; I believe such toll implementation is still subject to federal approval.   Have the feds actually signed off on this?  And before somebody mentions Rhode Island; those tolls are only charged for commercial trucks.

Additionally, let's not forget that Gov. Lamont in CT seemed all confident that tolls would get (re)established & the feds would approve such only to have Westchester County, NY shoot things down because the plan included I-684 in the mix.

[jeffandnicole]

I'm curious about the legality of these Interstate tolls as well.  Most of them are for projects ready to go to construction shortly, which means federal funding has already (or should have) been requested and programmed for each project.  If that's the case, then why are tolls needed?

Even the I-95 Girard Point Bridge is questionable. The planned construction includes this line item: "bridge superstructure painting".  The bridge was painted in a fairly comprehensive construction $76 million project just 10 years ago (http://www.pspe-philly.org/oea/2012%20OEA/GIRARD%20POINT%20BRIDGE.pdf).

[jemacedo9]

I'm curious about the legality of these Interstate tolls as well.  Most of them are for projects ready to go to construction shortly, which means federal funding has already (or should have) been requested and programmed for each project.  If that's the case, then why are tolls needed?

Even the I-95 Girard Point Bridge is questionable. The planned construction includes this line item: "bridge superstructure painting".  The bridge was painted in a fairly comprehensive construction $76 million project just 10 years ago (http://www.pspe-philly.org/oea/2012%20OEA/GIRARD%20POINT%20BRIDGE.pdf).

Some of these I get (notwithstanding the funding question...which is a big question).  Others not so much.
The I-80 Canoe Creek, North Fork, and Lehigh River bridges I get...pretty large bridges that are going to be fully replaced.
Same with the I-83 and I-81 Susquehanna Bridges.

The other I-80 bridge (Nescopeck Creek - the deck on that one is a quilt of patches) and the I-78 bridge both need to be replaced also...but...not major bridges?

The I-79 bridge is really a short widening project disguised as a bridge toll?

I-95...I had the same thought.  The approach spans were not repainted...but I'd think that's pretty minor?  I wonder if they are going to include the viaducts north and south of there (though I thought the viaduct by the Sports Complex is already under rehab)?

[74/171FAN]

Specific I-83 South Bridge Update: PennDOT Hosting On-Demand Virtual Public Meeting for I-83 South Bridge Project

[ARMOURERERIC]

The I-79 project sees to be a move to capitalize on Southern Beltway future shunpikers.

[CentralPAGal]

I wonder why they didn't include the I-81 George Wade bridge? Wouldn't the north section of the capital beltway seem like an obvious shunpike, even if it is longer?

[TheGrassGuy]

Philadelphia Zoo in GSV is labeled as "Cattail Slough Public Use Area", and the rest of Fairmount Park is labeled as "Philadelphia Zoo"

[vdeane]

My understanding is that tolling of major bridges on existing free interstates is legal as long as the money isn't diverted away from the road.  As such, unless PennDOT is planning to do something like they were with the prior I-80 tolling initiative, I would expect at least some of these to easily get approved.  The more minor bridges might be an issue.  As there is no equivalent of I-684 (which is basically an intra-NY route that happens to pass through a piece of CT), I don't see out of state interests having as much leverage to kill the plan.

Basically: this has a better chance of actually happening than the other recent initiatives in PA and CT.

[PHLBOS]

My understanding is that tolling of major bridges on existing free interstates is legal as long as the money isn't diverted away from the road.  As such, unless PennDOT is planning to do something like they were with the prior I-80 tolling initiative, I would expect at least some of these to easily get approved.  The more minor bridges might be an issue.

The issue w/PA's past Act 44 & 89 initiatives is the lack of genuine transparency with regards to where the toll revenue is actually going when such are being proposed/marketed to the taxpaying public.

In the case of Act 44; while it was mentioned that a percentage of the toll revenue would go to transit agencies; most thought that such would completely go towards actual projects as opposed to allegedly subsidizing union pensions.

Act 89 was advertised & marketed completely for roadway & transit projects as a means of getting taxpayer support for such.  However, it was later discovered that revenue was also going to State Police funding; something that was never mentioned at all when marketed/advertised.  While I personally have nothing against funding the State Police; sneaking such into gas tax increases is deceptive to say the least, flat out wrong to say the most.

Given the above & PA's past flat-out reluctance to abide by federal rules for allocating revenue via tolling the fore-mentioned I-80 more than once under 2 different administrations & parties; I wouldn't trust them doing the right thing with this current plan.

For the record, the only federal approval for such has been in Rhode Island; but tolls on those highways are only charged for large commercial trucks.  The PA plan will be to charge tolls for all vehicles.