For this upcoming weekend's Webinar presentation, we'll be taking a look at the freeway system in and around El Paso, TX, one of the more interesting urban centers in the Mountain West region. Coverage will begin on Saturday (4/4) at 6 PM ET.
We had a great crowd with a lot of awesome contributors for our Las Vegas Webinar presentation from last weekend and we hope to have an even stronger crowd this weekend. We hope to see you there!
A lot of $$$ invested in recent years, and a lot of mistakes, also.
Will there be an overview afterward. I cannot make that time but am very interested in El Paso info.
We save all of these presentations for posterity, so if you're unable to catch portions of it "live", you'll be able to watch the balance of it once it's been processed on YouTube.
Our next installment in the *weekly* live broadcast over on 'roadwaywiz' will be this double-header Virtual Tour presentation, where we dissect and enjoy a full-length trip along the belt highways encircling both El Paso, TX and Las Vegas, NV in real time, complete with commentary and contributions from admins/moderators/members of this forum.
The event will kick off on Saturday (4/11) at 6 PM ET and we look forward to seeing you there!
Thanks!!!
The last time I drove through El Paso was in October 2017 while the "Go 10" project between Executive Center Blvd and Sunland Park was underway. I remember seeing some huge bridges being cast, as well as a massive amount of earth being moved. I'd be interested to see the final results of this undertaking.
Some of the finished work on the TX-375 loop is visible in Google Street View (Feb 2020 imagery).
Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 06, 2020, 02:10:03 PM
Some of the finished work on the TX-375 loop is visible in Google Street View (Feb 2020 imagery).
Here one shot of Loop-375 from Streetview. https://www.google.com/maps/@31.793717,-106.5268331,3a,75y,110.99h,100.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stp01sCsfuBbs5xqzIZ1AbQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on May 06, 2020, 07:39:14 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 06, 2020, 02:10:03 PM
Some of the finished work on the TX-375 loop is visible in Google Street View (Feb 2020 imagery).
Here one shot of Loop-375 from Streetview. https://www.google.com/maps/@31.793717,-106.5268331,3a,75y,110.99h,100.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stp01sCsfuBbs5xqzIZ1AbQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
It's an impressive work, especially in the area between Schuster Ave and Executive Center Blvd where they managed to cram two freeways and an arterial (85) into such close proximity. I like how 375 rides on pillars and straddle bents over the railroad; in fact that's one of the first things I noticed on my 2017 trip.
So in your opinion did all of this construction serve a pressing regional need, or is this a case of Texas being awesome and building it just to say they built it?
Don't believe it was well thought out. Close to 500-600 million to construct that "tollway" just W of existing Interstate 10. Pre-existing Geometrical problems with 10 itself on the immediate W side of El Paso should have been fixed instead. The sixties 10 routing climbs a considerable ridge, extending from the Franklin Mountains, which run as sort of a N-S spine through El Paso itself. The routing was to avoid a pre-existing copper operation, Asarco, which has since been demolished. About a decade ago, before this road work. There is also a significant curve on 10, just S of Sunland Park, Exit 13. This incline, and the curve, slows long distance trucking, to create rolling backups and slowdowns at certain hours.
Would have routed 10 where they routed this "tollway" instead, straightening it, and thus eliminating both the Curve and the Hill. Would have built an entirely new 10 facility, between Exits 13 and 16, with an 8-10 lane mainline, and parallel frontages. The brutalist structures W of 10, south of Exit 16, would not have built at all. Nor the elevated "embarcadero" structure S into downtown. Just would have provided frontage on pre-existing 10 south of Exit 16, and better connections to the N side of the UTEP campus.
Believe that much of the expenditure, for this W side monstrosity, should have been used towards replacing the original Spaghetti Bowl (I-10/I-110/US 54) with a better interchange, one with some seismic resistance (box beam or segmental) and fixing of geometrical deficiencies there.
Deficiences that include weaving, incomplete frontage, and now narrowing of EB 10 to allow only three lanes of through traffic. Seems also completely nuts.
I'm a little surprised more long distance trucks don't get off I-10 and take NM-404 to Chaparral and NM-213 down to the North side of El Paso to reach the North half of Loop 375. They would get around the busiest parts of El Paso, including the obsolete sections of I-10.
Some improvements are being made to I-10 near the new Loop 375 toll road. One widening project is most of the way complete between Executive Center Blvd and Sunland Park Drive. Does that fix any of the geometry issues with I-10?
This may have been covered previously, but is there a reason I-25 was never multiplexed with I-10 from Las Cruces down to one of the international bridges at El Paso?
Quote from: I-35 on May 14, 2020, 05:07:31 PM
This may have been covered previously, but is there a reason I-25 was never multiplexed with I-10 from Las Cruces down to one of the international bridges at El Paso?
I wouldn't see the need to have I-25 go any further south than Las Cruces.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 14, 2020, 06:21:55 PM
Quote from: I-35 on May 14, 2020, 05:07:31 PM
This may have been covered previously, but is there a reason I-25 was never multiplexed with I-10 from Las Cruces down to one of the international bridges at El Paso?
I wouldn't see the need to have I-25 go any further south than Las Cruces.
Agreed. There's no good reason
to co-sign it with I-10.
Quote from: kphoger on May 15, 2020, 11:33:20 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 14, 2020, 06:21:55 PM
Quote from: I-35 on May 14, 2020, 05:07:31 PM
This may have been covered previously, but is there a reason I-25 was never multiplexed with I-10 from Las Cruces down to one of the international bridges at El Paso?
I wouldn't see the need to have I-25 go any further south than Las Cruces.
Agreed. There's no good reason to co-sign it with I-10.
International continuity. Also, a 40 mile concurrency isn't unheard of; look at I-15 and I-84 in Utah.
Quote from: JKRhodes on May 16, 2020, 09:09:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 15, 2020, 11:33:20 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 14, 2020, 06:21:55 PM
Quote from: I-35 on May 14, 2020, 05:07:31 PM
This may have been covered previously, but is there a reason I-25 was never multiplexed with I-10 from Las Cruces down to one of the international bridges at El Paso?
I wouldn't see the need to have I-25 go any further south than Las Cruces.
Agreed. There's no good reason to co-sign it with I-10.
International continuity. Also, a 40 mile concurrency isn't unheard of; look at I-15 and I-84 in Utah.
I-84 actually continues somewhere on either side. I-25 wouldn't besides maybe half a mile overlapping current I-110.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 16, 2020, 09:14:35 PM
Quote from: JKRhodes on May 16, 2020, 09:09:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 15, 2020, 11:33:20 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 14, 2020, 06:21:55 PM
Quote from: I-35 on May 14, 2020, 05:07:31 PM
This may have been covered previously, but is there a reason I-25 was never multiplexed with I-10 from Las Cruces down to one of the international bridges at El Paso?
I wouldn't see the need to have I-25 go any further south than Las Cruces.
Agreed. There's no good reason to co-sign it with I-10.
International continuity. Also, a 40 mile concurrency isn't unheard of; look at I-15 and I-84 in Utah.
I-84 actually continues somewhere on either side. I-25 wouldn't besides maybe half a mile overlapping current I-110.
Don't forget the 277 mile concurrency of I-80 and I-90 being together from Gary, IN, to Elyria, OH.
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/41.5923701,-87.2317265/41.3866624,-82.1788738/@41.591949,-87.1159127,10z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0
Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 11, 2020, 10:51:31 PM
I'm a little surprised more long distance trucks don't get off I-10 and take NM-404 to Chaparral and NM-213 down to the North side of El Paso to reach the North half of Loop 375. They would get around the busiest parts of El Paso, including the obsolete sections of I-10.
Some improvements are being made to I-10 near the new Loop 375 toll road. One widening project is most of the way complete between Executive Center Blvd and Sunland Park Drive. Does that fix any of the geometry issues with I-10?
Traveling via that route is essentially a bunch of "zig zags". However, there IS a significant fraction of truck freight using that zig zag, including fairly heavy turning movements at the newer rotary structure at NM 213/404 which is frankly awful. The route is quite circuitous as NM 404 begins to head ENE as it nears NM 213 from the W.
There needs to be a straight shot (interstate grade) from the 375 loop road, just E of the RR track (and Railroad Dr) with clearance and movement of the present Gun Club out of that area. A straight shot, up to the "saddle" of Anthony Gap, which is in New Mexico, where it would meet present two lane NM 404. 404 would be double barreled, W to current Exit 162, on I-10. This exit shows some foresight for such a possibility, the frontage on the W side of 10 has been moved back, to allow a possible future high speed ramp from 10 S towards a future facility. Am going to call this future facility Interstate 210, as that is what is should be named, and it denotes what design parameters it needs to meet. This route needs to have a variable width median, of minimum 88 feet, extending up to 150 feet, once it departs the El Paso environs several miles S of the NM/TX state line. All the way to Exit 162. Cheaping out, and building a "poor boy" or a "flush median" type of roadway is simply unacceptable.
Yes the "improvements" to 10 on the W side of El Paso are essentially finished. They did lock in a lot of the long standing geometrical deficiencies on 10 as part of this project. Curve and Hill. The idea may? have been with the 375 tollway, to provide "redundancy" to existing 10. Ironic, was under the belief the texdot was moving away from toll facilities. Indeed, there is still a "toll deferral" status on the thing. Have to wonder, if they do proceed to enact a toll, even minimal, will most of the traffic, now on the tollway, then go back to 10, leaving the tollway essentially empty?
My argument was that the long standing geometrical problems with 10 should have been fixed, via straightening and widening, and redundancy provided for with the addition of one way frontage, down to the N outskirts of the UTEP campus. Basically 12 to 16 lanes of total capacity, from Exit 11, Mesa Dr, to roughly MP 17 on the N end of the UTEP campus. The surviving Paisano Drive US-85, which hugs the border, would have been absorbed into this large facility. 10 also needs the downtown section opened up to a full eight lanes, and provisions made for an eight lane mainline all the way to Anthony Exit 0, so including the current one way frontage - 12 total lanes. This could have already been in place, instead of the piecemeal interchange replacements of the past twenty years.
Quote from: DJStephensThere needs to be a straight shot (interstate grade) from the 375 loop road, just E of the RR track (and Railroad Dr) with clearance and movement of the present Gun Club out of that area.
There are plans in the works for a "Northeast Parkway," starting at Loop 375 East of Railroad Drive. The proposed road would do a big curve around the West side of the gun club. The road would cross Dyer Street and US-54 heading Northwest. The highway would end along MLK Blvd (FM 3255) just South of the NM/TX border. New Mexico would have to come up with their own way how to connect the road into I-10 (if they bothered to do anything). At any rate, the whole thing does indeed amount to a potential I-210 corridor that would allow a lot of long distance, thru traffic to avoid the busy parts of El Paso.
This plan apparently had been in the works for more than a decade, but unfortunately appears to not be making any progress at getting funded.
Regardless of whatever happens I-10 will need continual improvements in the El Paso area. Border traffic may only increase there. I'm sure there will be lasting impact from the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic on US-Chinese relations. The worsening political situation, along with blatant IP & tech theft in China, should eventually encourage American manufacturers to reduce the amount of production they're doing in China. Mexico isn't the easiest place to do business, but plenty of American manufacturers already operate there. In the long term I think Africa could turn into a manufacturing hot bed, provided if the political climate in certain countries can stabilize. By 2050 the African continent will have the majority of the world's youth, thanks to falling birth rates in most other places.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 17, 2020, 11:41:43 PM
Quote from: DJStephensThere needs to be a straight shot (interstate grade) from the 375 loop road, just E of the RR track (and Railroad Dr) with clearance and movement of the present Gun Club out of that area.
There are plans in the works for a "Northeast Parkway," starting at Loop 375 East of Railroad Drive. The proposed road would do a big curve around the West side of the gun club. The roa would cross Dyer Street and US-54 heading Northwest. The highway would end along MLK Blvd (FM 3255) just South of the NM/TX border. New Mexico would have to come up with their own way how to connect the road into I-10 (if they bothered to do anything). At any rate, the whole thing does indeed amount to a potential I-210 corridor that would allow a lot of long distance, thru traffic to avoid the busy parts of El Paso.
This plan apparently had been in the works for more than a decade, but unfortunately appears to not be making any progress at getting funded.
Yes have seen that study. It needs to be better (especially where it meets the current loop 375) There are sub-standard sections on 375 further south, mainly where the "spur 601" was connected. The mainlines of 375 were actually shifted where a new overpass was constructed. Lousy policy, to downgrade a section of critical infrastructure like that.
Maps - we use them to figure our way around places, to get from one place to another. Or sometimes, highlight them to mark where we've been. But a gas station road map used as an integral part of solving an international border dispute? That's what a 1958 Esso Map of El Paso, Texas did.
A feature on Chamizal National Memorial in El Paso.
https://www.gribblenation.org/2022/02/the-1958-esso-el-paso-map-that-solved.html
Also, parts of Interstate 110, the United States Port of Entry on 110, and the Bridge of Americas make up the eastern boundary of Cordova Island. So for a trivia answer, parts of Interstate 110 are located on land that was once part of Mexico as late as the 1960s.
Hello everyone,
I know there hasn't been much activity on this thread but I wanted to share some updated news on freeway construction in El Paso.
The formerly Northeast Parkway project is now called the Borderland Expressway project and there's currently a virtual public hearing being held by TxDOT until next Friday (June 24).
The link to the TxDOT website is https://www.txdot.gov/inside-txdot/projects/studies/el-paso/northeastpky-lp375-fm3325.html (https://www.txdot.gov/inside-txdot/projects/studies/el-paso/northeastpky-lp375-fm3325.html)
Besides the name change (which I think is too similar to the existing Border West Expressway), the project plans are improved in that they aren't planning on taking a shortcut by only building out the road as a super-two. The final completed form will be a 4-lane freeway. It is not planned to be a toll road. If some news articles from KFOX are accurate, the New Mexico portion of the project (NM-404 and NM-213) is already funded as an upgrade from the current 2-lane road to a 4-lane expressway.
I'm not sure when the New Mexico portion construction will start but the Texas portion of the road is scheduled to start construction by 2025.
Has anyone gone to El Paso, and fallen in love with a Mexican girl, like Marty Robbins did?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 21, 2022, 05:49:40 PM
Has anyone gone to El Paso, and fallen in love with a Mexican girl, like Marty Robbins did?
I had a tiny crush on a waitress in Las Cruces. Does that count?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 21, 2022, 05:49:40 PM
Has anyone gone to El Paso, and fallen in love with a Mexican girl
I think |Max Rockatansky| has done both of those things, just not at the same time.
Google Streetview showed some progress of the Montana Avenue freeway upgrade from May 2022. https://goo.gl/maps/6n3M9WZJwp1jTsdKA
Kind of ironic to see this project as a partial revival of the 1963 Trowbridge-Montana freeway proposal. https://www.texasfreeway.com/ElPaso/historic/freeway_planning_maps/images/el_paso_1963_annotated.jpg
Doesn't El Paso stuff belong in Mid South, rather than Mountain West?
Quote from: Anthony_JK on June 23, 2022, 10:19:57 PM
Doesn't El Paso stuff belong in Mid South, rather than Mountain West?
Nah. El Paso is a western city. Makes way more sense to group it with Arizona than it does with Louisiana.
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on June 23, 2022, 09:31:22 AM
Google Streetview showed some progress of the Montana Avenue freeway upgrade from May 2022. https://goo.gl/maps/6n3M9WZJwp1jTsdKA
I'd say they have about 6 more months before they complete all of the mainline section of the Montana Expressway. They already opened part of the eastbound mainlines in March, from just east of Global Reach to Lee Blvd. On Street View, that's shown as the old westbound alignment of Montana Ave. in their April 2022 imagery.
Also, did you notice this? https://goo.gl/maps/zGQBYBAjiAZbmP9A7 (https://goo.gl/maps/zGQBYBAjiAZbmP9A7) I thought the sign was placed in error before I realized it is for construction vehicles only.
The I-10 widening project on the westside is going to start up soon. TxDOT has already paved over the right shoulder and rumble strip of eastbound I-10 from Vinton to Canutillo. They'll shift traffic away from the center median to do most of the widening work there.
I wonder if the flyover ramps at Global Reach Drive and Loop-375 are still in the plans as shown in that old video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2Ke4mu4Vkc
And slightly off-topic I spotted this clip showing vintage photos of downtown El Paso.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwhPiPhmlSY
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on June 24, 2022, 09:30:12 AM
I wonder if the flyover ramps at Global Reach Drive and Loop-375 are still in the plans as shown in that old video?
Yes, I believe those flyover ramps are still in the plans.
On the TxDOT project tracker site (https://apps3.txdot.gov/apps-cq/project_tracker/ (https://apps3.txdot.gov/apps-cq/project_tracker/)), project ID 037402116 is about "constructing direct connectors." However, the project limits are from Global Reach to Zaragoza; so I think those are only referring to the entrance/exit ramps on the Montana Expressway.
Earlier today, I was finally able to capture the new full-color LED lane signs TxDOT has installed near the US-54/I-10 interchange. The LED displays appear to be similar to the variable speed limit signs installed on roads near Seattle. However, it just looks like TxDOT is using the ones in El Paso to provide advanced lane guidance by showing the highway shield above each lane.
(https://lh3.google.com/u/0/d/1TN_GwfcD41r686aIwU5J5qPAyul2Q3dy=w1920-h456-iv1)
This is the location in Google Maps with Street View from just last month (the displays were off when the imaging car passed) - https://goo.gl/maps/whXBAvwwdNukMgeG7 (https://goo.gl/maps/whXBAvwwdNukMgeG7).
Hopefully, in the future they can use these to provide variable speed limits and lane guidance (like lane closed ahead) whenever there's an accident or heavy traffic.
I pasted this over from the mid-south sub. I think it sums up why El Paso discussion fits here.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on August 08, 2022, 09:09:26 AM
Quote from: bwana39 on August 08, 2022, 08:18:15 AM
Quote from: jtespi on August 07, 2022, 01:18:41 AM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on August 06, 2022, 12:31:22 PM
EL PASO IS NOT DEAD!
I really wish it weren't the case but it seems like I'm the only one posting on El Paso specific discussion threads. The most active thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=26641.0) is actually in the Mountain West forum because people thought it made more sense there (I agree). There's a lot of interesting stuff happening in El Paso regarding roads like the upcoming reconstruction of I-10 through the city, the Montana Avenue Freeway, and upcoming Borderland Expressway (formerly Northeast Parkway).
Some of the places on the line between two different AAROADS defined regions really struggle with this. The Memphis area between Mid-South and Southeast. (Western Tennessee is in Mid-South but Tennessee is in Southeast.) Where should North West Mississippi fit? It is part of metro-Memphis. Where do Mississippi River crossings fit? Where does Louisiana transition.? I-35 at the Red River?
I am sure there are lots of others. El Paso is closer to Phoenix than to DFW or ANY of the major Texas cities. It is similar in distance from Midland as to Tucson. Most of us from east of US-281 will make it to El Paso once a decade or so. It just is not familiar to the average Texan or anyone from, as I said, east of US-281; even farther east than Texarkana, Orange, or Waskom (IE Past Texas).
I agree. I used to travel to El Paso about twice a year because I loved it out there, and even then, I felt like it was in another world from the rest of Texas. Texas in general seems to forget about El Paso, until something good happens out there and then everyone wants to claim it.
Back in June, I took a nostalgic trip on the El Paso Streetcar
https://www.gribblenation.org/2023/07/the-el-paso-streetcar.html
or
https://adameprince.blogspot.com/2023/07/getting-over-my-writing-fears-on-el.html?view=magazine
I've noticed there are two El Paso, TX threads; one in the Mid-South board, and one here in the Mountain West board. Would it be possible to merge the two threads into only one of the boards?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 15, 2023, 10:21:24 PM
I've noticed there are two El Paso, TX threads; one in the Mid-South board, and one here in the Mountain West board. Would it be possible to merge the two threads into only one of the boards?
My vote is to merge into mid-south.
Mountain West for me. El Paso is by no means part of "the South", "Mid-South", or anything like that. El Paso is firmly part of the West and the Rocky Mountain region since the Franklin Mountains are an extension of the Rockies.
---
Anyways, the I-10 widening project in West El Paso is well underway.
Now, the Redd Road Exit 9 offramp for I-10 EB is closed until the new year as it gets rebuilt and probably moved/reconfigured.
They are almost ready to shift traffic over to the new concrete section that was built in the median. The main choke point now is the narrow arroyo bridges north and south of Transmountain. Traffic on I-10 EB is down to one lane due to that narrow section and it causes backups almost daily.
Quote from: jtespi on August 08, 2023, 03:08:30 AM
Mountain West for me. El Paso is by no means part of "the South", "Mid-South", or anything like that. El Paso is firmly part of the West and the Rocky Mountain region since the Franklin Mountains are an extension of the Rockies.
---
Anyways, the I-10 widening project in West El Paso is well underway.
Now, the Redd Road Exit 9 offramp for I-10 EB is closed until the new year as it gets rebuilt and probably moved/reconfigured.
They are almost ready to shift traffic over to the new concrete section that was built in the median. The main choke point now is the narrow arroyo bridges north and south of Transmountain. Traffic on I-10 EB is down to one lane due to that narrow section and it causes backups almost daily.
With the amount of freight (Class A trucking) that goes through there, it is unbelievable they didn't plan to keep two lanes open. In that construction zone. An enourmous amount of freight, quite a bit of it could have been funneled via Anthony Gap, if there had been "normal" foresight and planning to have such an option in place by now. Actually it should have been in place thirty years ago.
Nope, El Paso belongs in Mountain West.
Frankly, the inclusion of any part of Texas in "mid south" at all is questionable at best. As for El Paso, it doesn't belong on the mid south board any more than Denver belongs on the Great Lakes/Ohio Valley board.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on August 10, 2023, 04:29:02 PM
Nope, El Paso belongs in Mountain West.
Frankly, the inclusion of any part of Texas in "mid south" at all is questionable at best. As for El Paso, it doesn't belong on the mid south board any more than Denver belongs on the Great Lakes/Ohio Valley board.
My thought is that El Paso is in line with geographically, socially with the rest of the Rocky Mountain West. However, road design characteristics are in line with the rest of Texas so it should be included on a roads forum with the rest of the state. There's also a good argument to be made for giving Texas its own board but that also opens the door for California, New York, Illinois and Florida. I can't speak to whether or not the forum admins would want to go down that road.
It seems like everyone has moved new replies for El Paso, TX to this thread (Mountain West), while the Mid-South El Paso, TX thread last received a reply from bwana39 on July 27, 2023, at 9:39:17 PM EST. The other El Paso, TX thread hasn't been locked, but it looks like this one is the thread that will be used from here on out.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 10, 2023, 10:19:00 PM
It seems like everyone has moved new replies for El Paso, TX to this thread (Mountain West), while the Mid-South El Paso, TX thread last received a reply from bwana39 on July 27, 2023, at 9:39:17 PM EST. The other El Paso, TX thread hasn't been locked, but it looks like this one is the thread that will be used from here on out.
Madness.