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Double left turns with permissive phasing

Started by jakeroot, December 14, 2015, 02:01:17 AM

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Do you think dual permissive turns should be allowed?

Yes
57 (50.4%)
No
35 (31%)
Cat
21 (18.6%)

Total Members Voted: 113

Hobart

Quote from: jakeroot on March 15, 2022, 11:35:28 AM
Quote from: Hobart on March 13, 2022, 09:23:17 PM
I found a very interesting example at a Minnesota intersection.

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.8522878,-93.1298118,3a,75.1y,250.94h,94.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTNJBDnUyDGyaQZwzYj-JVw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

One approach has normal double flashing yellow arrows for a two-lane wide permissive setup.

The more interesting approach has one flashing yellow arrow above the left turn lane, and Minnesota's flashing yellow arrow weird doghouse signal permissive left turn thing above the option lane. This is the only time I've seen these two signals used on the same mast arm for the same approach.

There is one other identical approach in Eden Prairie as well: https://goo.gl/maps/AB3ktBEx8e15CDka7

I guess a good term for this kind of setup, given that there is apparently more than a couple of them in the state, is the "Minnesota-style option lane double permissive turn"...maybe someone can think of something catchier.

There is definitely more than a couple!

I found a third one in Elk River.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.


jakeroot

Quote from: Hobart on March 24, 2022, 12:03:43 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on March 15, 2022, 11:35:28 AM
Quote from: Hobart on March 13, 2022, 09:23:17 PM
I found a very interesting example at a Minnesota intersection.

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.8522878,-93.1298118,3a,75.1y,250.94h,94.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTNJBDnUyDGyaQZwzYj-JVw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

One approach has normal double flashing yellow arrows for a two-lane wide permissive setup.

The more interesting approach has one flashing yellow arrow above the left turn lane, and Minnesota's flashing yellow arrow weird doghouse signal permissive left turn thing above the option lane. This is the only time I've seen these two signals used on the same mast arm for the same approach.

There is one other identical approach in Eden Prairie as well: https://goo.gl/maps/AB3ktBEx8e15CDka7

I guess a good term for this kind of setup, given that there is apparently more than a couple of them in the state, is the "Minnesota-style option lane double permissive turn"...maybe someone can think of something catchier.

There is definitely more than a couple!

I found a third one in Elk River.

Could you indicate where? I glanced around but didn't see any specific locations with the option-lane double permissive left turn setup like the two just mentioned.

Hobart

Quote from: jakeroot on March 24, 2022, 02:00:22 PM
Quote from: Hobart on March 24, 2022, 12:03:43 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on March 15, 2022, 11:35:28 AM
Quote from: Hobart on March 13, 2022, 09:23:17 PM
I found a very interesting example at a Minnesota intersection.

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.8522878,-93.1298118,3a,75.1y,250.94h,94.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTNJBDnUyDGyaQZwzYj-JVw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

One approach has normal double flashing yellow arrows for a two-lane wide permissive setup.

The more interesting approach has one flashing yellow arrow above the left turn lane, and Minnesota's flashing yellow arrow weird doghouse signal permissive left turn thing above the option lane. This is the only time I've seen these two signals used on the same mast arm for the same approach.

There is one other identical approach in Eden Prairie as well: https://goo.gl/maps/AB3ktBEx8e15CDka7

I guess a good term for this kind of setup, given that there is apparently more than a couple of them in the state, is the "Minnesota-style option lane double permissive turn"...maybe someone can think of something catchier.

There is definitely more than a couple!

I found a third one in Elk River.

Could you indicate where? I glanced around but didn't see any specific locations with the option-lane double permissive left turn setup like the two just mentioned.

So, this is what happens when I don't proofread my own posts because I post too late at night.

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.3077572,-93.5774317,3a,75y,184.13h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1skLHdqbvOPrTIFWd3Mw33dg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DkLHdqbvOPrTIFWd3Mw33dg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D182.91048%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

Sorry for the runaround.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

jakeroot

Quote from: Hobart on March 24, 2022, 05:23:21 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on March 24, 2022, 02:00:22 PM
Quote from: Hobart on March 24, 2022, 12:03:43 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on March 15, 2022, 11:35:28 AM
Quote from: Hobart on March 13, 2022, 09:23:17 PM
I found a very interesting example at a Minnesota intersection.

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.8522878,-93.1298118,3a,75.1y,250.94h,94.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTNJBDnUyDGyaQZwzYj-JVw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

One approach has normal double flashing yellow arrows for a two-lane wide permissive setup.

The more interesting approach has one flashing yellow arrow above the left turn lane, and Minnesota's flashing yellow arrow weird doghouse signal permissive left turn thing above the option lane. This is the only time I've seen these two signals used on the same mast arm for the same approach.

There is one other identical approach in Eden Prairie as well: https://goo.gl/maps/AB3ktBEx8e15CDka7

I guess a good term for this kind of setup, given that there is apparently more than a couple of them in the state, is the "Minnesota-style option lane double permissive turn"...maybe someone can think of something catchier.

There is definitely more than a couple!

I found a third one in Elk River.

Could you indicate where? I glanced around but didn't see any specific locations with the option-lane double permissive left turn setup like the two just mentioned.

So, this is what happens when I don't proofread my own posts because I post too late at night.

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.3077572,-93.5774317,3a,75y,184.13h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1skLHdqbvOPrTIFWd3Mw33dg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DkLHdqbvOPrTIFWd3Mw33dg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D182.91048%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

Sorry for the runaround.

All good! Thanks for sharing that. No wonder I didn't spot it while browsing overhead, it was just installed and not shown on globe satellite view. Although it is shown on non-globe satellite view...note to self, turn off globe satellite mode when looking for most recent imagery!

In terms of the setup, it seems like there may be some path overlap. I'm curious when it's set to operate, I'm able to see GSV imagery showing it operating, but it's operating more as a split-phase intersection.

jakeroot

JMAN_WiS&S recently brought up Eau Claire, Wisconsin in another thread, and it reminded me to take a look around that place again.

I noticed that eastbound Clairemont to the northbound Hastings Way onramp has a double permissive left turn using flashing yellow arrows:

https://goo.gl/maps/n7DnBT2NXR9VsN1A9

In true Eau Claire fashion, there's plenty of signals! Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find any GSV of the left turn signals operating in permissive mode. If there are any locals that know of this intersections and could comment on how it operates, I'd love to know if it actually runs in permissive mode (perhaps at night).

Hobart

Quote from: jakeroot on March 25, 2022, 02:06:07 PM
JMAN_WiS&S recently brought up Eau Claire, Wisconsin in another thread, and it reminded me to take a look around that place again.

I noticed that eastbound Clairemont to the northbound Hastings Way onramp has a double permissive left turn using flashing yellow arrows:

https://goo.gl/maps/n7DnBT2NXR9VsN1A9

In true Eau Claire fashion, there's plenty of signals! Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find any GSV of the left turn signals operating in permissive mode. If there are any locals that know of this intersections and could comment on how it operates, I'd love to know if it actually runs in permissive mode (perhaps at night).

I wonder why Wisconsin insists on using so many heads for everything. I appreciate good supplementary heads, but this is getting ridiculous.

Also, although in a completely different place, I found a Mississippi setup that uses double doghouses... in the middle of the day, with both left turn directions going at the same time, at an intersection with US 90, completely unlike the example you just sent. Duaity of man I guess.

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.4161172,-88.8277286,3a,24.9y,173.78h,94.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sN1IQDLKTGHznubnJzg7iwA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

jakeroot

Quote from: Hobart on March 26, 2022, 09:01:03 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on March 25, 2022, 02:06:07 PM
JMAN_WiS&S recently brought up Eau Claire, Wisconsin in another thread, and it reminded me to take a look around that place again.

I noticed that eastbound Clairemont to the northbound Hastings Way onramp has a double permissive left turn using flashing yellow arrows:

https://goo.gl/maps/n7DnBT2NXR9VsN1A9

In true Eau Claire fashion, there's plenty of signals! Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find any GSV of the left turn signals operating in permissive mode. If there are any locals that know of this intersections and could comment on how it operates, I'd love to know if it actually runs in permissive mode (perhaps at night).

I wonder why Wisconsin insists on using so many heads for everything. I appreciate good supplementary heads, but this is getting ridiculous.

Actually, the new standard for Wisconsin is all overhead with one nearside signal for each maneuver, which is not really that impressive. Even most Illinois districts require both one nearside signal and one far left corner signal. Eau Claire, on the other hand, goes a bit above and beyond, looking more like California or Nevada with their new installations compared to the rest of Wisconsin.

Quote from: Hobart on March 26, 2022, 09:01:03 PM
Also, although in a completely different place, I found a Mississippi setup that uses double doghouses... in the middle of the day, with both left turn directions going at the same time, at an intersection with US 90, completely unlike the example you just sent. Duaity of man I guess.

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.4161172,-88.8277286,3a,24.9y,173.78h,94.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sN1IQDLKTGHznubnJzg7iwA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Very nice! That's a great example of a positive-offset left turn for the opposing single lane left turn. This is preferred as it massively improves visibility for left turning traffic.

jakeroot

The double left turn from MN-62 to southbound I-35E has a double left turn that operates permissively. MN has a ton of double permissive left turn "signal heads" but I don't believe many actually operate in permissive mode:

https://goo.gl/maps/qGwuB1yoWY5WZKnJ7

Hobart

I found another example in New Mexico.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1879789,-106.6140448,3a,62y,42.2h,87.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZoh9IMh3tvRc28SaJ4smfA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

You can't see the lanes clearly because there's other cars, but it's striped for two-lane left turns.

This is also very interesting because there's no obvious indication that the left turn is two lanes besides pavement markings. There's only one overhead signal, and no signage anywhere denoting lane usage.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

jakeroot

Quote from: Hobart on April 11, 2022, 10:54:33 AM
I found another example in New Mexico.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1879789,-106.6140448,3a,62y,42.2h,87.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZoh9IMh3tvRc28SaJ4smfA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

You can't see the lanes clearly because there's other cars, but it's striped for two-lane left turns.

This is also very interesting because there's no obvious indication that the left turn is two lanes besides pavement markings. There's only one overhead signal, and no signage anywhere denoting lane usage.

I don't know what New Mexico's rules are for double left turns, but it seems they have no rule specifically prohibiting permissive lefts with more than one lane.

Hobart

I should really do things during D&D besides look at Google Street View!

Found this example in Regina, Saskatchewan, not even using FYA's (because it's in Canada)!

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.4962855,-104.640998,3a,55.6y,356.64h,90.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUZohFOprKKpvs9vNRPJjfg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

JMAN_WiS&S

#561
Quote from: jakeroot on March 25, 2022, 02:06:07 PM
JMAN_WiS&S recently brought up Eau Claire, Wisconsin in another thread, and it reminded me to take a look around that place again.

I noticed that eastbound Clairemont to the northbound Hastings Way onramp has a double permissive left turn using flashing yellow arrows:

https://goo.gl/maps/n7DnBT2NXR9VsN1A9

In true Eau Claire fashion, there's plenty of signals! Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find any GSV of the left turn signals operating in permissive mode. If there are any locals that know of this intersections and could comment on how it operates, I'd love to know if it actually runs in permissive mode (perhaps at night).

I am said local! These dual FYAs along with the ones at Clairemont/Stein, begin their p/p phasing around 7:30-8pm during the weekday, and Clairemont/University around 7pm. On the weekend University is p/p 24hrs. The dual protected FYAs at Hastings & Brackett run recently switched to running protected only during the day, it switches to p/p around 7pm.

There are actually plans to swap the final WisDOT intersections that have 3 section LT heads in our area over to 4 section FYA heads in the next year or two, aside from the SPUI. STH 178/Seymour Cray Sr in Chippewa Falls now has a NB to WB dual left with p/p FYAs, running the same phasing as the clairemont ones do. River Prairie Dr & US53NB ramp in Altoona, STH 124 & CTH OO in Lake Hallie, and both of the STH 178 & STH 29 Ramp intersections in Chippewa Falls are set to be eventually converted to this head style. Not entirely sure if any of those will drop one of the left turn lanes to compensate. For a while Eau Claire had the highest concentration of protected only left turn signals in the entire state and now we have eliminated most of them 15 years later.

If you ever want to know more about anything Eau Claire feel free to shoot me a PM, I could go on for hours and hours, and can probably get you videos of just about anything too!
Youtube, Twitter, Flickr Username: JMAN.WiS&S
Instagram username: jman.wissotasirens-signals

I am not an official representative or spokesperson for WisDOT. Any views or opinions expressed are purely my own based on my work experiences and do not represent WisDOTs views or opinions.

Hobart

This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

jakeroot

Quote from: Hobart on May 17, 2022, 05:36:12 PM
It hasn't been a month yet since the last post, and I found another example in Salina, Kansas!

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7980492,-97.6128301,3a,75y,43.84h,88.65t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1spKlT61K6Vt9K3lOmsuW0fg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DpKlT61K6Vt9K3lOmsuW0fg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D14.805189%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

Well found.

I wish they would have modified the oncoming left turn to positive-offset alignment (against oncoming traffic instead of against through traffic), as that would have improved visibility for left-turning traffic. But maybe it works okay. I know Tucson swears by some kind of clearance zone between the through lanes and the left turn lanes.

Hobart

#564
Stolen from an intersection that's next to an intersection on the oversized reflector board thread.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.2157385,-96.8608948,3a,15.4y,165.95h,90.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8gjedreKTCdHjqQC9RvEkA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

This freshly installed example in Frisco, Texas, has double FYA's, in Texas' double red arrow configuration. I imagine it's not going to be around for much longer as traffic demands increase.

EDIT: Shortly after I posted, I found that a few nearby intersections have examples as well!
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.2142146,-96.8454693,3a,75y,183.66h,109.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6IGz1oACbVpwu8KEs4V1DA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.209032,-96.8197297,3a,15y,271.47h,91.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNC0Y4EGcP1PhBceuKjeypA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.2040566,-96.8026837,3a,44.8y,262.88h,92.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3Yfk8joPa93Cz3fsAe7Ifg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.2339097,-96.8193084,3a,15y,269.45h,92.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sV2n9L0WfxAR2QidjeUYirg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.2627725,-96.819274,3a,75y,293.54h,90.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgAm1faxlCTbQspTx0eSdbg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

I think all of these exist because construction of the roads in the area isn't complete yet; many of these intersections have additional empty space for lanes, or barricades indicating the road will be widened later. Dallas Parkway is also just feeder roads right now. It's interesting that the state would install protected-permissive signals on a temporary basis for this reason.
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kphoger

Quote from: Hobart on June 07, 2022, 09:44:04 PM
Stolen from an intersection that's next to an intersection on the oversized reflector board thread.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.2157385,-96.8608948,3a,15.4y,165.95h,90.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8gjedreKTCdHjqQC9RvEkA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

This freshly installed example in Frisco, Texas, has double FYA's, in Texas' double red arrow configuration. I imagine it's not going to be around for much longer as traffic demands increase.

EDIT: Shortly after I posted, I found that a few nearby intersections have examples as well!
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.2142146,-96.8454693,3a,75y,183.66h,109.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6IGz1oACbVpwu8KEs4V1DA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.209032,-96.8197297,3a,15y,271.47h,91.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNC0Y4EGcP1PhBceuKjeypA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.2040566,-96.8026837,3a,44.8y,262.88h,92.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3Yfk8joPa93Cz3fsAe7Ifg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.2339097,-96.8193084,3a,15y,269.45h,92.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sV2n9L0WfxAR2QidjeUYirg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.2627725,-96.819274,3a,75y,293.54h,90.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgAm1faxlCTbQspTx0eSdbg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

I think all of these exist because construction of the roads in the area isn't complete yet; many of these intersections have additional empty space for lanes, or barricades indicating the road will be widened later. Dallas Parkway is also just feeder roads right now. It's interesting that the state would install protected-permissive signals on a temporary basis for this reason.

Also interesting that they don't have white FYA signs next to the signal heads.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

roadfro

Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 09:54:39 AM
Also interesting that they don't have white FYA signs next to the signal heads.

Technically, a sign is not required (despite so many jurisdictions using one). Since MUTCD didn't require or even recommend a sign, that probably explains why there's so many different FYA sign designs out there...
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

kphoger

Quote from: roadfro on June 08, 2022, 11:35:14 AM

Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 09:54:39 AM
Also interesting that they don't have white FYA signs next to the signal heads.

Technically, a sign is not required (despite so many jurisdictions using one). Since MUTCD didn't require or even recommend a sign, that probably explains why there's so many different FYA sign designs out there...

It's just that it seems like I've always seen one in Texas wherever there's an FYA.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

fwydriver405

Quote from: fwydriver405 on January 29, 2021, 09:09:07 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 29, 2021, 02:19:18 PM
Quote from: fwydriver405 on January 20, 2021, 07:29:08 PM
Saw two intersections with double permissive lefts on a recent trip to the University of Vermont for two games:

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.4744303,-73.1954092,3a,35.6y,54.89h,84.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqU4mNlgDIpby3ZwN85XmVg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (this one is confirmed, as I saw the opposing direction also have a concurrent green as well.)

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.4758217,-73.1926487,3a,24.8y,186.4h,85.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDMQ344T5QDAEkA_uedCzKQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I continue to be surprised by how many exist in Vermont. Interesting that two would end up so close to each other.

Speaking of Vermont... I wonder if this double left in St Albans VT is still running permissive/protected at all since 2015, since the newer GSV's show this signal to run in protected only mode.

2015 GSV (permissve/protected), Oct 2018 GSV (protected only?)

Update on the Vermont double permissive lefts. Managed to visit all three locations on 11 June on a day trip to Burlington. Here is what I found:

US Route 2 at University Heights in Burlington in UVM is still running a double permissive left on the Univ. Heights approach. Seems to run a lagging left setup (yellow trap risk) since the first side street phases were green balls in both direction, but since side street volumes were low, the arrow never came on.

Beaumont Ave and Carrigan Drive, also in Burlington in UVM does NOT run a double permissive left setup, it ran split (with a green left arrow on one of the heads) when I drove thru there.

US Route 7 at Vermont Route 207 in Saint Albans VT did NOT have the permissive phase active when I went there, even under what I assume was under free operations (although it seemed like it was running pretimed and not free... broken detector?)

MASTERNC

Saw a bunch of these in Minnesota (Maple Grove), though the FYA is sometimes inactive.  What is also odd is there is only one left turn signal overhead (the second one is in the far left corner).

https://goo.gl/maps/oW78ms5eFzeo3CZF6

https://goo.gl/maps/LpKsdeZRKLJFLpV56

Hobart

In today's episode of "Hobart revives a dead thread by posting exactly once", I found an example in Sioux Falls!

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.5720182,-96.7726206,3a,54.5y,10.74h,96.51t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sZFfz1cHWzGpXwINEAdnyew!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DZFfz1cHWzGpXwINEAdnyew%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D123.33305%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

At Maple and Russel streets, the off ramp from I-29 has a double permissive left turn that's phased with the opposing right turn. What makes this even more interesting is that the right turn is given a green arrow when the opposing left turn has a green ball.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.57223,-96.7725141,3a,55.3y,205.38h,92.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAiS_nhjU8gaN1md5mjV8sA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

steviep24

The intersection of NY 15 (Mt Hope Ave) and Westfall Rd/Westmoreland Rd. in Rochester, NY was recently rebuilt. Westfall Rd. now has double left turn lanes with protected/permissive phasing with FYA. This is the only such setup I know of in Rochester.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1144766,-77.6224815,3a,37.5y,283.2h,93.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sneeiWnOEs4cpSgjJvcZFHA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&authuser=0

jakeroot

Quote from: Hobart on July 13, 2022, 08:42:27 PM
In today's episode of "Hobart revives a dead thread by posting exactly once", I found an example in Sioux Falls!

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.5720182,-96.7726206,3a,54.5y,10.74h,96.51t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sZFfz1cHWzGpXwINEAdnyew!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DZFfz1cHWzGpXwINEAdnyew%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D123.33305%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

At Maple and Russel streets, the off ramp from I-29 has a double permissive left turn that's phased with the opposing right turn. What makes this even more interesting is that the right turn is given a green arrow when the opposing left turn has a green ball.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.57223,-96.7725141,3a,55.3y,205.38h,92.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAiS_nhjU8gaN1md5mjV8sA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Not to completely steal your thunder, but I did post this same intersection a couple years ago:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=17051.msg2496801#msg2496801

Quote from: steviep24 on July 13, 2022, 09:12:06 PM
The intersection of NY 15 (Mt Hope Ave) and Westfall Rd/Westmoreland Rd. in Rochester, NY was recently rebuilt. Westfall Rd. now has double left turn lanes with protected/permissive phasing with FYA. This is the only such setup I know of in Rochester.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1144766,-77.6224815,3a,37.5y,283.2h,93.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sneeiWnOEs4cpSgjJvcZFHA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&authuser=0

Very cool! Perhaps the only one upstate for that matter...there are a bunch in NYC-proper, but I'm not aware of others in the state.

webny99

Quote from: jakeroot on July 13, 2022, 09:27:32 PM
Quote from: steviep24 on July 13, 2022, 09:12:06 PM
The intersection of NY 15 (Mt Hope Ave) and Westfall Rd/Westmoreland Rd. in Rochester, NY was recently rebuilt. Westfall Rd. now has double left turn lanes with protected/permissive phasing with FYA. This is the only such setup I know of in Rochester.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1144766,-77.6224815,3a,37.5y,283.2h,93.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sneeiWnOEs4cpSgjJvcZFHA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&authuser=0

Very cool! Perhaps the only one upstate for that matter...there are a bunch in NYC-proper, but I'm not aware of others in the state.

Interesting. I'll have to check that out sometime. The new(-ish) installs on NY 15A at I-390 less than a mile away are protected-only. Wouldn't be surprised if it's because there's only a single oncoming lane.

This intersection also qualifies for my lanes that disappear mid-intersection thread, so I'll post this there too.  :)

cl94

Quote from: jakeroot on July 13, 2022, 09:27:32 PM
Quote from: Hobart on July 13, 2022, 08:42:27 PM
In today's episode of "Hobart revives a dead thread by posting exactly once", I found an example in Sioux Falls!

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.5720182,-96.7726206,3a,54.5y,10.74h,96.51t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sZFfz1cHWzGpXwINEAdnyew!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DZFfz1cHWzGpXwINEAdnyew%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D123.33305%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

At Maple and Russel streets, the off ramp from I-29 has a double permissive left turn that's phased with the opposing right turn. What makes this even more interesting is that the right turn is given a green arrow when the opposing left turn has a green ball.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.57223,-96.7725141,3a,55.3y,205.38h,92.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAiS_nhjU8gaN1md5mjV8sA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Not to completely steal your thunder, but I did post this same intersection a couple years ago:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=17051.msg2496801#msg2496801

Quote from: steviep24 on July 13, 2022, 09:12:06 PM
The intersection of NY 15 (Mt Hope Ave) and Westfall Rd/Westmoreland Rd. in Rochester, NY was recently rebuilt. Westfall Rd. now has double left turn lanes with protected/permissive phasing with FYA. This is the only such setup I know of in Rochester.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1144766,-77.6224815,3a,37.5y,283.2h,93.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sneeiWnOEs4cpSgjJvcZFHA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&authuser=0

Very cool! Perhaps the only one upstate for that matter...there are a bunch in NYC-proper, but I'm not aware of others in the state.

There are a few in NYC itself unless I'm missing a bunch. I think the one at Flatbush/Tillary may be gone now that the intersection was reconfigured to have a shared through/turn lane. Queens Boulevard is still there. The one in Rochester, yeah, that's the only one Upstate. I wonder if that operates as FYA 24/7 or only part-time.
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